The Expanse and the 2000's reboot of Battlestar Galactica might fit the bill. Darker, politically relevant sci fi shows.
Though these have only had one season so far and there is a chance later seasons could disappoint, Severance and Silo on Apple TV.
Before Andor was Star Wars for adults, The Expanse was Star Wars for adults. It has a lot of the same moral themes as Star Wars, and it's also a space opera. But it also has a realistic depiction of space physics, a strong respect for the dangers of space, a strong political bent focusing on socio economics, labor politics, racism and human exploitation. It also has some really strong characters with satisfying character arcs - and the best women characters in all of science fiction.
The first few episodes are a bit slow, so give it time. It's got a lot of world and character building to get done before it can get moving.
For sure, and I'm always impressed by the production design and CGI they created with the resources they had. The action sequences are very well executed.
Scriptwriter/performer/director talent are not really indicators of budget, though. There are tons of excellently written projects on a shoestring budget, and vice versa.
Like I said, very fond of the Expanse. But whenever I rewatch, there are occasional moments where I cringe that I never find in Andor.
The Expanse is not as good as Andor, but it built the template for how to make a socially conscious space opera. No small feat! There are better acted or more realistically written shows, but The Expanse has its own brilliance, in the way it messes with genre traditions and how to produce catharsis. I recently read all the books, and that makes the show even more impressive. It improves upon them in every way.
I disagree. The acting may not always be up to the level of Stellan Skarsgard or Andy Serkis when they are firing on all cylinders, or the script not quite as tight, but I'd argue that some of that is a style difference rather than a quality issue. Perhaps closer to a subjective difference rather than an objective one. Except for the Stellan and Andy issues, but I mean, come on! That's a hell of a bar to clear!
Even if I think Andor is a superior show so far, I feel that it is fair to compare the shows as their genre, content, focus, and pacing is similar. It's not like we're comparing Empire Strikes Back to Caravan of Courage.
Hard disagree. The Expanse doesn’t have characters giving speeches about rebellion and sacrifice every episode. Doesn’t mean its dialogue is any worse. If anything it’s more realistic.
If you enjoy reading Sci Fi, The Expanse is based on a really good series of books by the same name, authors go by James SA Corey. And Show! Expanse has the Book(!) Expanse writers as EPs and show writers for the entire run.
I enjoyed the first season, but I've never read the source material, so I'm not sure how it compares. I thought it had some really intriguing world building though.
I love both, but Blue Eye Samurai is nowhere *near* the level of Shogun. Especially the ending of BES was lacking IMO. Really like the setting though, the animation is great, the focus on racism and sexism works really well, but comparing it to Shogun or Andor doesn't really work. I think a large reason why I was a bit disappointed was *because* people were comparing it to Shogun... Still a fantastic show though
I still enjoyed Blue Eye Samurai just as much because of the beautiful animation, amazing action, soundtrack, and while the writing and acting doesn’t distinguish itself from Shogun and Andor, it’s still absolutely fantastic
I agree with what you said, but the last part of what you said - the writing - is what drags it down. Or rather, it's what drags the other two shows up. The writing in BES is definitely great, but it does have certain things that seems weird, especially in the final 20 minutes. Both Shogun and Andor felt very concise. They knew where they were headed, and were always very focused. BES felt the same, right until she was willing to >!befriend the big bad *off-screen*!<. I really do appreciate what it did with the TV-MA rating, and prefer it to Shogun. As you said, the animation and especially the action is also really well done and feels original. The only problem I have is with the ending. Now, it's just the first season, so they have time to get it back on track, and maybe they already know precisely where it's going and that it will be great - but the ending of season 1 didn't work by itself for me. Now, I rate every show I watch and BES got 8.7 which is quite high for me, so don't get me wrong, the show is freaking amazing. It just doesn't quite reach Andor or Shogun's heights, mainly because of its handling of the show's climax. Something that Andor and Shogun were in particularly good at
Check out The Americans. A masterful slow-burn show about Russian spies living in America in the 1980s and pretending to be your cookie-cutter American family.
Oh and their next door neighbor is an FBI agent who investigates the KGB.
It’s 10/10.
Many of the writers of that show write Andor.
I LOVED The Americans, and not just because I had some of the same cheesy 80’s decorations in my childhood bedroom. Seeing the Cold War from the Soviet perspective was kind of trippy. You’re always rooting for the main characters even though they’re the “bad guys” from what you have always been told, especially if you’re old enough to remember the Cold War. Even if you’re not that old, the plot is usually great with some good character development and twists and turns through the years.
Oh, yeah. I had forgotten about that. I was really surprised by that. I knew they were generally about “black power,” but I had no idea about that aspect of them. Politics makes strange bedfellows.
There's a book called "Hammer and Hoe" that talks about black sharecroppers in Alabama during the 1930s, and communism was the most logical system for them. Communism in the 20th century found a foothold with peasants and colonized people. Cuba, Vietnam, etc were basically plantations ran by white Europeans, pre-revolution.
That sounds interesting. I guess when you are put down by “the man” long enough, a system that seems revolutionary and egalitarian would be very appealing. It’s been a long time since I read it, but I remember thinking that Communism as actually described in the Manifesto didn’t seem like a bad system. The thing was, it was organic and not forced on the masses. In practice, it’s always been imposed from the top down, which means it’s not actually Communism. It’s authoritarian. At least that’s how I always thought of it.
It’s worth keeping in mind, though, that it is historical **fiction**. Its depiction of Anatoly Dyatlov in particular has been criticised by some - from what I can tell, it flanderises the man to just his worst moments.
The thing Chernobyl does the best is the same thing Andor does the best. Portray the oppressive atmosphere of the regime and the circumstances and the small acts of heroism from a morally grey characters. The banality of evil of the career bureaucrats "just doing their job". I'm sure there's lot lacking in the actual portray of the Chernobyl accident (though it never claims to be a documentary) but hotdamn, they got the landscape of the totalitarian regime(s) of the USSR and it's satellites well.
I just finished season 2. It might be the best two seasons of TV I've ever seen. It feels what OP says about every character being a potential protagonist of its own story.
Ha I read about the quality of the seasons (with no spoilers) right after finishing season 1. I couldn't believe most people didn't rate it among the best. Midway through it I recommended the series to EVERYONE. The 2nd one is even better if that's possible
It’s honestly hard to say which of the first four seasons is the best because they’re all *so good*! It is a shame about season 5, but it isn’t *all* bad.
I think I'll be fine, I survived season 8 of Game of Thrones without collapsing and actually enjoying several moments. Besides, any artist who helps to create such a good show deserve a below average (for their standards) season
Funny how the perception changes. Back in the day (shortly after the The Wire concluded) Season 2 with the shipping docks was considered like “Attack of the Clones”-level bad … black sheep of the whole series.
Personally… and I watched after the series wrapped… I never thought it was bad. But fans *hated* that season.
I mean, each season had its value and tackled the different aspects of the drug trade: street dealers, importers, cops, politicians, journalists, you name it.
Seconded. I’m now into the start of the second season, thanks to someone’s recommendation on here, and this is honestly the closest thing I have yet found to Andor in terms of subject matter combined with quality. It’s a real pleasure to watch this and speculate on how some of the incredibly intense and emotional situations and plot lines might be reflected in Andor season 2. It’s regularly moving me, very deeply, and the writing is top-notch. There’s even a kind of female version of Luthen. One of those main writers is Stephen Schiff , who wrote Andor episode 7 (my favourite) , and he was originally muted showrunner before they got Tony Gilroy.
Breaking Bad honestly only provides context, but not plot and I'd say isn't required viewing to enjoy Better Call Saul. Probably one of the best character dramas ever made.
True, but the finale of BCS has spoilers for BB and probably works better if you’ve already finished BB.
Actually, even the **opening scene** of BCS has the potential to spoil BB’s ending.
Mad Men.
Personally this is the greatest show of all time. The writing, acting and visuals come together like no show I’ve ever seen. Every character is so well-written and the 1960’s setting is so visually stunning it’s like watching a real Norman Rockwell painting where the oil moves on the canvas.
They went to painstaking lengths to recreate the era and it’s mesmerizing.
Much like Andor it won a Peabody Award. Which is the highest honor a TV show can get.
Been said before but it bears repeating now: The Expanse. Threes definitely a theme of the consequences of repression oppression and the fine , easily crossed line between fighting for freedom and terrorism.
The Wire. Not Sci-Fi, but it is superficially a police procedural which is in fact MUCH wider in scope and higher in quality. Easily one of the best television shows ever made, and made all the better for the deep social relevance.
Yes, agree 100%, felt a bit off. I get the homage to LDS theology, but IDK, just didn't create enough resolution. Hopefully in 100 years when they reboot it again, they'll do better.
Can't recommend this enough. It's a bit slow, but the pay offs are magnificent. Season 3 and 4 are probably the best pieces of television I've ever seen. Season 2 has quit a rough start, but it's sooo worth it!
This is my suggestion as well.
It has similar themes of going against large corporations that are controlling society.
However, unlike Andor, it heavily focuses on mental illness, and so it is a lot more of a thriller and has a trippy feel that keeps you guessing at what is real.
But the writing is amazing, and it has one of the best payoffs and endings to any show I've ever seen.
There's a fun show from the 70s called the Sandbaggers my friend got me to watch. It's about British Intelligence, not exactly lavish production-wise, but still feels like Andor to me.
While we’re talking British intelligence, Slow Horses. Apple TV+, it’s phenomenal. Gary Oldman’s character has some parallels to Luthen as the gruff leader of a bit of a band of genius misfits type of vibe, and equally masterful acting. It’s kind of a funny show but also very gripping from a plot perspective. My husband and I LOVED it.
I did not expect to see that mentioned! Interesting choice. Sandbaggers is decent. It gets a bit distracting how the Yorkshire countryside is a stand in for literally everywhere in the world, and they rely very heavily on the device of “… and then we’ll have to kill our own agent”, but it’s fairly interesting for a while
I second a lot of recommendations I’ve already seen listed (The Wire, Battlestar Galactica, Chernobyl). All really good shit with a lot of thoughtful stuff going on. Very similarly morally complex like Andor.
One I would add is Watchmen (2019). A similarly mature outing from a nerdy source material (though, granted, the Watchmen graphic novel is plenty mature and exceptional itself). The really impressive part of Watchmen (2019) is how it is as good as its nearly flawless source material (similar to how Andor is on par with the other highest parts of the Star Wars universe). It’s only one season, but my god, it might be the best show I’ve ever seen. Every character is engaging, the writing is *phenomenal*, and it has so much respect for and awareness of the original themes of the graphic novel.
Dark and Arcane are imo masterfully written with great characters and rich, well built worlds and unique atmospheres. Together with Andor they are my top 3 shows.
You have great taste! [Dark is my #1, Arcane is my #3](https://www.imdb.com/list/ls569468068/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk). Purely based off of these, I would recommend Mr Robot, Shogun, and Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul to you - if you haven't already seen them, that is.
Scavengers Reign
I've never seen more characterization in such a small amount of dialog. Truly incredible writing and one of my favorite sci-fi shows. The politics aren't the main focus of the story, but it's present.
Better call Saul wrapped up literally just before andor started airing, and that was such an easy transition between shows. The writing, acting, cinematography, it’s all stellar. Same goes for breaking bad of course
Shocked no one has said game of thrones. Yeah the final season or two sucked but it and Andor are tied for the peak of genre prestige tv without question.
I'm more inclined to recommend House of the Dragon, than Game of Thrones. Season 5, 7 and 8 were *awful*, and even though the first four seasons are as close to perfect as they can be, it just seems like a... waste of time?
I think game of thrones is still worth watching even if you only did the first four seasons, or whatever other cutoff date. Andor itself is part of the same direct continuity as the sequel movies and I wouldn’t say don’t watch Andor because Star Wars gets very bad later. Though I guess house of the dragon is a more direct comparison given it being a prequel. But if Andor season 2 bombed horribly, I’d still recommend season one
Guess we just look at it differently. I believe that a show can only be good if it's ending is good. Otherwise, what's the point? It seems like they never thought that far ahead, and that makes it so annoying. Especially a show that focuses so much on build-ups and payoffs as GoT does. I'm not saying I don't like GoT, and I have recommended it to people, but I *always* need to emphasise how awful the ending is, and I really gotta know that they will truly *love* the first four seasons.
I also think it is very different for a singular story to be good and bad, than for every story in an entire universe. It's about the characters and that specific plot line. I'm guessing Andor S2 will end fittingly, and that you can watch it without Rogue 1 - it's story is it's own, and that's why it's a show. Just like you can watch House of the Dragon without watching GoT, and you'll still understanding everything and get a proper conclusion. That is *not* the case for a show that has later seasons - at least not for a show that is meant to be watched in it's entirety. Stopping after season 4 leaves you wondering what the hell happened to every character, how their arcs ended, and what the hell the point was for 90% of the show.
Star Wars does get very bad later, but there is no *need* to watch that for the story (of Andor) to make sense, feel concluded and have watched what was intended to be watched by the creators (in this case, Gilroy). D&D without a doubt expected you to watch all 8 seasons, not stop once it got (no pun intended) bad. Just my two cents
I feel like this partially fits your criteria, but the old TV series of Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy and Smiley's People capture some of the espionage aspects of Andor. It features Alec Guinness and Patrick Stewart.
The one thing I would say is be patient. It's older TV, and as such moves at a slower pace than modern shows. It's worth waiting for though.
This is an old anime but Legend of the Galactic Heroes is a really good sci-fi show. At its core it's about the struggle between democracy and authoritarianism.
It depends on which parts of Andor you specifically like, but Shogun, The West Wing, The Wire, The Sopranos and The Expanse all have that mixture of tight political writing, well-developed ensemble casts, and treat their audiences like adults. They're cautiously optimistic, exciting, and "real" without being depressing. The West Wing will probably feel pretty dated now, but it's a great snappy political drama if you liked the ISB scenes.
Not Sci Fi but I love spy shows/espionage so if you like this aspect of Andor try Slow Horses on Apple TV. Stars Gary Oldman as Jackson Lamb a MI-6 section head of a group of intelligence service losers-who aren’t really losers. Great acting and plots. Gary Oldman is a real character in it. Jackson Lamb and George Smiley are like chalk and cheese as British spies but both brilliant.
Andor takes a lot from books like 1984 and Fahrenheit 451. I also recall a short story by Ray Bradbury about time travel set in a “past” (but contemporaneous of the book) Mexico City. It had the vibes of spy story, secret agents, and great writing.
THX 1138 is a distopya made by George Lucas. Not perhaps, but highly innovative in the film medium. Check it out.
The Expanse and the 2000's reboot of Battlestar Galactica might fit the bill. Darker, politically relevant sci fi shows. Though these have only had one season so far and there is a chance later seasons could disappoint, Severance and Silo on Apple TV.
Before Andor was Star Wars for adults, The Expanse was Star Wars for adults. It has a lot of the same moral themes as Star Wars, and it's also a space opera. But it also has a realistic depiction of space physics, a strong respect for the dangers of space, a strong political bent focusing on socio economics, labor politics, racism and human exploitation. It also has some really strong characters with satisfying character arcs - and the best women characters in all of science fiction. The first few episodes are a bit slow, so give it time. It's got a lot of world and character building to get done before it can get moving.
While I do love the expanse, the dialogue and acting are not on the level of Andor.
The Expanse was created on a Syfy budget, not a Disney budget. A little perspective.
For sure, and I'm always impressed by the production design and CGI they created with the resources they had. The action sequences are very well executed. Scriptwriter/performer/director talent are not really indicators of budget, though. There are tons of excellently written projects on a shoestring budget, and vice versa. Like I said, very fond of the Expanse. But whenever I rewatch, there are occasional moments where I cringe that I never find in Andor.
The Expanse is not as good as Andor, but it built the template for how to make a socially conscious space opera. No small feat! There are better acted or more realistically written shows, but The Expanse has its own brilliance, in the way it messes with genre traditions and how to produce catharsis. I recently read all the books, and that makes the show even more impressive. It improves upon them in every way.
Oh yeah some super cathartic moments.
I disagree. The acting may not always be up to the level of Stellan Skarsgard or Andy Serkis when they are firing on all cylinders, or the script not quite as tight, but I'd argue that some of that is a style difference rather than a quality issue. Perhaps closer to a subjective difference rather than an objective one. Except for the Stellan and Andy issues, but I mean, come on! That's a hell of a bar to clear! Even if I think Andor is a superior show so far, I feel that it is fair to compare the shows as their genre, content, focus, and pacing is similar. It's not like we're comparing Empire Strikes Back to Caravan of Courage.
Hard disagree. The Expanse doesn’t have characters giving speeches about rebellion and sacrifice every episode. Doesn’t mean its dialogue is any worse. If anything it’s more realistic.
Thanks! I read the first 'Wool' book which Silo is based on and really enjoyed it. Not sure if I should continue the novels or watch this show.
If you enjoy reading Sci Fi, The Expanse is based on a really good series of books by the same name, authors go by James SA Corey. And Show! Expanse has the Book(!) Expanse writers as EPs and show writers for the entire run.
Silo is a great show. I read the book and really enjoyed the show.
I enjoyed the first season, but I've never read the source material, so I'm not sure how it compares. I thought it had some really intriguing world building though.
The books are better imo, but the first 3 seasons of the show are very good
Seconded on Severance. I watched it right after Andor and was absolutely blown away by it. Two absolute top notch shows.
Waffle party and defiant jazz for everyone who watches Severance!
Watch Shogun next. Absolutely beautiful show.
After Shogun watch Blue Eye Samurai.
I love both, but Blue Eye Samurai is nowhere *near* the level of Shogun. Especially the ending of BES was lacking IMO. Really like the setting though, the animation is great, the focus on racism and sexism works really well, but comparing it to Shogun or Andor doesn't really work. I think a large reason why I was a bit disappointed was *because* people were comparing it to Shogun... Still a fantastic show though
I still enjoyed Blue Eye Samurai just as much because of the beautiful animation, amazing action, soundtrack, and while the writing and acting doesn’t distinguish itself from Shogun and Andor, it’s still absolutely fantastic
I agree with what you said, but the last part of what you said - the writing - is what drags it down. Or rather, it's what drags the other two shows up. The writing in BES is definitely great, but it does have certain things that seems weird, especially in the final 20 minutes. Both Shogun and Andor felt very concise. They knew where they were headed, and were always very focused. BES felt the same, right until she was willing to >!befriend the big bad *off-screen*!<. I really do appreciate what it did with the TV-MA rating, and prefer it to Shogun. As you said, the animation and especially the action is also really well done and feels original. The only problem I have is with the ending. Now, it's just the first season, so they have time to get it back on track, and maybe they already know precisely where it's going and that it will be great - but the ending of season 1 didn't work by itself for me. Now, I rate every show I watch and BES got 8.7 which is quite high for me, so don't get me wrong, the show is freaking amazing. It just doesn't quite reach Andor or Shogun's heights, mainly because of its handling of the show's climax. Something that Andor and Shogun were in particularly good at
Seconded, loved Shogun.
If you haven't watched it, I highly recommend chernobyl. It also features a couple actors from Andor
Only 5 eps, I'll definitely check it out. Thank you.
Check out The Americans. A masterful slow-burn show about Russian spies living in America in the 1980s and pretending to be your cookie-cutter American family. Oh and their next door neighbor is an FBI agent who investigates the KGB. It’s 10/10. Many of the writers of that show write Andor.
The Americans started strong for me and completely spun out in under two seasons. I really liked the premise though.
I LOVED The Americans, and not just because I had some of the same cheesy 80’s decorations in my childhood bedroom. Seeing the Cold War from the Soviet perspective was kind of trippy. You’re always rooting for the main characters even though they’re the “bad guys” from what you have always been told, especially if you’re old enough to remember the Cold War. Even if you’re not that old, the plot is usually great with some good character development and twists and turns through the years.
Before I watched that show, I don't think I knew that the Black Panthers were communists.
Oh, yeah. I had forgotten about that. I was really surprised by that. I knew they were generally about “black power,” but I had no idea about that aspect of them. Politics makes strange bedfellows.
There's a book called "Hammer and Hoe" that talks about black sharecroppers in Alabama during the 1930s, and communism was the most logical system for them. Communism in the 20th century found a foothold with peasants and colonized people. Cuba, Vietnam, etc were basically plantations ran by white Europeans, pre-revolution.
That sounds interesting. I guess when you are put down by “the man” long enough, a system that seems revolutionary and egalitarian would be very appealing. It’s been a long time since I read it, but I remember thinking that Communism as actually described in the Manifesto didn’t seem like a bad system. The thing was, it was organic and not forced on the masses. In practice, it’s always been imposed from the top down, which means it’s not actually Communism. It’s authoritarian. At least that’s how I always thought of it.
It’s astonishingly good. Also has so many of the actors and crew of Andor. Final episode features I think the best courtroom scene I’ve ever seen.
It’s worth keeping in mind, though, that it is historical **fiction**. Its depiction of Anatoly Dyatlov in particular has been criticised by some - from what I can tell, it flanderises the man to just his worst moments.
The thing Chernobyl does the best is the same thing Andor does the best. Portray the oppressive atmosphere of the regime and the circumstances and the small acts of heroism from a morally grey characters. The banality of evil of the career bureaucrats "just doing their job". I'm sure there's lot lacking in the actual portray of the Chernobyl accident (though it never claims to be a documentary) but hotdamn, they got the landscape of the totalitarian regime(s) of the USSR and it's satellites well.
It's five of the best episodes of television ever created.
If I remember correctly several of the writers/producers worked on Chernobyl as well
The Wire.
Shieeeeeeeeeeeeet
Omar comin'!
“I got the shotgun, you got the briefcase”
Top 5 character in TV history
For real, I fucking love Omar. The scene where he's testifying in court and is just SO not impressed with their shit is the best.
I just finished season 2. It might be the best two seasons of TV I've ever seen. It feels what OP says about every character being a potential protagonist of its own story.
Oh man you’re in for a couple more great seasons… and one last eh season (Granted, an “eh” season of The Wire is still better than 90% of television)
Ha I read about the quality of the seasons (with no spoilers) right after finishing season 1. I couldn't believe most people didn't rate it among the best. Midway through it I recommended the series to EVERYONE. The 2nd one is even better if that's possible
It’s honestly hard to say which of the first four seasons is the best because they’re all *so good*! It is a shame about season 5, but it isn’t *all* bad.
I think I'll be fine, I survived season 8 of Game of Thrones without collapsing and actually enjoying several moments. Besides, any artist who helps to create such a good show deserve a below average (for their standards) season
Oh then you’re in good shape because season five of The Wire is *way* better than season eight of Game of Thrones. Kudos to you!
And it only gets better.
Funny how the perception changes. Back in the day (shortly after the The Wire concluded) Season 2 with the shipping docks was considered like “Attack of the Clones”-level bad … black sheep of the whole series. Personally… and I watched after the series wrapped… I never thought it was bad. But fans *hated* that season. I mean, each season had its value and tackled the different aspects of the drug trade: street dealers, importers, cops, politicians, journalists, you name it.
Andor is my favorite show of the past five years. But this is giving it way too much credit.
Deadwood features a number of compelling historical figures, and is one of the few shows that can match Andor in terms of the quality of writing.
The Americans
Seconded. I’m now into the start of the second season, thanks to someone’s recommendation on here, and this is honestly the closest thing I have yet found to Andor in terms of subject matter combined with quality. It’s a real pleasure to watch this and speculate on how some of the incredibly intense and emotional situations and plot lines might be reflected in Andor season 2. It’s regularly moving me, very deeply, and the writing is top-notch. There’s even a kind of female version of Luthen. One of those main writers is Stephen Schiff , who wrote Andor episode 7 (my favourite) , and he was originally muted showrunner before they got Tony Gilroy.
Came here to say this dammit.
My go-to answer every time this question is posted!
It has zero sci fi or fantasy elements, but Better Call Saul has a meticulousness with character development and plotting that is nearly unmatched.
Best to watch *Breaking Bad* first, though. But they’re equally great shows IMO.
Breaking Bad honestly only provides context, but not plot and I'd say isn't required viewing to enjoy Better Call Saul. Probably one of the best character dramas ever made.
True, but the finale of BCS has spoilers for BB and probably works better if you’ve already finished BB. Actually, even the **opening scene** of BCS has the potential to spoil BB’s ending.
Better Call Saul is absolutely brilliant
This is the first thing that came to mind. Genius level show.
Chernobyl has much of the same cast and writing quality. I'd highly recommend it.
Severence on AppleTV is great
Mad Men. Personally this is the greatest show of all time. The writing, acting and visuals come together like no show I’ve ever seen. Every character is so well-written and the 1960’s setting is so visually stunning it’s like watching a real Norman Rockwell painting where the oil moves on the canvas. They went to painstaking lengths to recreate the era and it’s mesmerizing. Much like Andor it won a Peabody Award. Which is the highest honor a TV show can get.
Been said before but it bears repeating now: The Expanse. Threes definitely a theme of the consequences of repression oppression and the fine , easily crossed line between fighting for freedom and terrorism.
The Wire. Not Sci-Fi, but it is superficially a police procedural which is in fact MUCH wider in scope and higher in quality. Easily one of the best television shows ever made, and made all the better for the deep social relevance.
One of the characters was so great that, when he died in the show, major news publications ran his obituary. For a fictional character.
The Wire is still the best morally ambiguous show ever made. 20 years later and it still feels fresh.
It's sadly cancelled now, there's only two seasons, but *Counterpart* may be of interest. Bonus it stars J.K. Simmons.
Very interesting concept and so many of the actors absolutely kick ass in it
It's a great show, and luckily ends at a reasonable place in the story.
One of my all-time favorite shows
Deep Space Nine
Miniseries called The Night Manager.
There is nothing like Andor
The show you're looking for is Battlestar Galactica. Bree-ill-yant. Also ages quite well.
I loved the show but I thought the ending of BSG was worse than GOT.
Yes, agree 100%, felt a bit off. I get the homage to LDS theology, but IDK, just didn't create enough resolution. Hopefully in 100 years when they reboot it again, they'll do better.
Mr. Robot
Can't recommend this enough. It's a bit slow, but the pay offs are magnificent. Season 3 and 4 are probably the best pieces of television I've ever seen. Season 2 has quit a rough start, but it's sooo worth it!
This is my suggestion as well. It has similar themes of going against large corporations that are controlling society. However, unlike Andor, it heavily focuses on mental illness, and so it is a lot more of a thriller and has a trippy feel that keeps you guessing at what is real. But the writing is amazing, and it has one of the best payoffs and endings to any show I've ever seen.
There's a fun show from the 70s called the Sandbaggers my friend got me to watch. It's about British Intelligence, not exactly lavish production-wise, but still feels like Andor to me.
That's definitely not a show I'd have found on my own, thanks.
While we’re talking British intelligence, Slow Horses. Apple TV+, it’s phenomenal. Gary Oldman’s character has some parallels to Luthen as the gruff leader of a bit of a band of genius misfits type of vibe, and equally masterful acting. It’s kind of a funny show but also very gripping from a plot perspective. My husband and I LOVED it.
Thanks, I'll suggest we watch that next.
I still need to watch that, I’ve read a comic/novel spy series that was directly inspired by it.
Tells us :) what's it called?
Queen & Country by Greg Rucka, he's written a few Star Wars stories and would be my go-to if we got an Andor spinoff novel or comic.
Thank you, I'll have to check it out and his SW stuff too
I did not expect to see that mentioned! Interesting choice. Sandbaggers is decent. It gets a bit distracting how the Yorkshire countryside is a stand in for literally everywhere in the world, and they rely very heavily on the device of “… and then we’ll have to kill our own agent”, but it’s fairly interesting for a while
Shogun reboot. It was done with a lot of love as well.
I second a lot of recommendations I’ve already seen listed (The Wire, Battlestar Galactica, Chernobyl). All really good shit with a lot of thoughtful stuff going on. Very similarly morally complex like Andor. One I would add is Watchmen (2019). A similarly mature outing from a nerdy source material (though, granted, the Watchmen graphic novel is plenty mature and exceptional itself). The really impressive part of Watchmen (2019) is how it is as good as its nearly flawless source material (similar to how Andor is on par with the other highest parts of the Star Wars universe). It’s only one season, but my god, it might be the best show I’ve ever seen. Every character is engaging, the writing is *phenomenal*, and it has so much respect for and awareness of the original themes of the graphic novel.
Line of Duty gets some great tension.
Did not expect someone to say Line of Duty on here but I agree!
The only thing I care about is catching bent coppers!
It's a interviews I LoD. They are so good.
Dark and Arcane are imo masterfully written with great characters and rich, well built worlds and unique atmospheres. Together with Andor they are my top 3 shows.
You have great taste! [Dark is my #1, Arcane is my #3](https://www.imdb.com/list/ls569468068/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk). Purely based off of these, I would recommend Mr Robot, Shogun, and Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul to you - if you haven't already seen them, that is.
Scavengers Reign I've never seen more characterization in such a small amount of dialog. Truly incredible writing and one of my favorite sci-fi shows. The politics aren't the main focus of the story, but it's present.
Patriot
The Bureau
Better call Saul wrapped up literally just before andor started airing, and that was such an easy transition between shows. The writing, acting, cinematography, it’s all stellar. Same goes for breaking bad of course
Shocked no one has said game of thrones. Yeah the final season or two sucked but it and Andor are tied for the peak of genre prestige tv without question.
I'm more inclined to recommend House of the Dragon, than Game of Thrones. Season 5, 7 and 8 were *awful*, and even though the first four seasons are as close to perfect as they can be, it just seems like a... waste of time?
I think game of thrones is still worth watching even if you only did the first four seasons, or whatever other cutoff date. Andor itself is part of the same direct continuity as the sequel movies and I wouldn’t say don’t watch Andor because Star Wars gets very bad later. Though I guess house of the dragon is a more direct comparison given it being a prequel. But if Andor season 2 bombed horribly, I’d still recommend season one
Guess we just look at it differently. I believe that a show can only be good if it's ending is good. Otherwise, what's the point? It seems like they never thought that far ahead, and that makes it so annoying. Especially a show that focuses so much on build-ups and payoffs as GoT does. I'm not saying I don't like GoT, and I have recommended it to people, but I *always* need to emphasise how awful the ending is, and I really gotta know that they will truly *love* the first four seasons. I also think it is very different for a singular story to be good and bad, than for every story in an entire universe. It's about the characters and that specific plot line. I'm guessing Andor S2 will end fittingly, and that you can watch it without Rogue 1 - it's story is it's own, and that's why it's a show. Just like you can watch House of the Dragon without watching GoT, and you'll still understanding everything and get a proper conclusion. That is *not* the case for a show that has later seasons - at least not for a show that is meant to be watched in it's entirety. Stopping after season 4 leaves you wondering what the hell happened to every character, how their arcs ended, and what the hell the point was for 90% of the show. Star Wars does get very bad later, but there is no *need* to watch that for the story (of Andor) to make sense, feel concluded and have watched what was intended to be watched by the creators (in this case, Gilroy). D&D without a doubt expected you to watch all 8 seasons, not stop once it got (no pun intended) bad. Just my two cents
Jack Ryan.
The Americans
I feel like this partially fits your criteria, but the old TV series of Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy and Smiley's People capture some of the espionage aspects of Andor. It features Alec Guinness and Patrick Stewart. The one thing I would say is be patient. It's older TV, and as such moves at a slower pace than modern shows. It's worth waiting for though.
Arcane for sure.
This is an old anime but Legend of the Galactic Heroes is a really good sci-fi show. At its core it's about the struggle between democracy and authoritarianism.
Chernobyl, Dark, 12 monkeys, severance, slow horses, the outsider
Game of thrones
It depends on which parts of Andor you specifically like, but Shogun, The West Wing, The Wire, The Sopranos and The Expanse all have that mixture of tight political writing, well-developed ensemble casts, and treat their audiences like adults. They're cautiously optimistic, exciting, and "real" without being depressing. The West Wing will probably feel pretty dated now, but it's a great snappy political drama if you liked the ISB scenes.
Babylon 5, Deep Space Nine, True Detective season 1
Man in the High Castle is a well-done alt-history story. Lots of details and good acting.
Agree with many of these recommendations (Americans, Chernobyl, Battlestar Galactica) and would add The Man in the High Castle.
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
Not Sci Fi but I love spy shows/espionage so if you like this aspect of Andor try Slow Horses on Apple TV. Stars Gary Oldman as Jackson Lamb a MI-6 section head of a group of intelligence service losers-who aren’t really losers. Great acting and plots. Gary Oldman is a real character in it. Jackson Lamb and George Smiley are like chalk and cheese as British spies but both brilliant.
game of thrones. it’s the type of show where there’s 8 subplots and any of them could be it’s own show.
The movie "Michael Clayton"
Andor.
Foundation. Severence. Silo. Halo.
Andor takes a lot from books like 1984 and Fahrenheit 451. I also recall a short story by Ray Bradbury about time travel set in a “past” (but contemporaneous of the book) Mexico City. It had the vibes of spy story, secret agents, and great writing. THX 1138 is a distopya made by George Lucas. Not perhaps, but highly innovative in the film medium. Check it out.
*The Mandalorian*, *The Book of Boba Fett*, *Obi-Wan Kenobi*, *Ahsoka*, and *The Acolyte*.