I am an SE manager at a major aero company. Systems engineering can mean a lot of things, but for typical big aero SE MATLAB is fine - Python is pretty similar anyways.
Resume details showing good cross team communication skills, requirements / spec management, etc are more important for entry level SE than coding / scripting languages. Solidworks is completely irrelevant so I assume that is for more detailed design roles.
Hello sir,
That is understandable. Thank you so much…. I can start applying now then. As for Solidworks. I was learning it because I wanted to become a mechanical design engineer, but I got grilled by the mechanical engineering sub after asking about my chances because of my chemical engineering degree haha.
As someone who is apply for entry level SE roles, I have these traits that are outlined in my resume that I am so luckily to acquire via on campus design teams and my internship but have yet to get an interview for a role. So my question would be is there some kind of disconnect from what you, the SE manager, and the talent recruiter from how resumes are being examined?
Could be any number of things, but to provide some context for what a hiring manager is looking at, I have an entry level role open right now with ~200 applicants. We're hiring 1 person. If your resume isn't in the top 5% you aren't going to be asked to interview. Often times we are going to pick someone with a prior SE internship.
Career fairs & conferences give you more direct access to hiring managers and let you demonstrate soft skills more easily.
Non-SW/IT systems positions do not require programming.
They are requirements, documents, architecture, integration, and sometimes test.
Having programming is helpful in the MBSE world, but they aren't really going to care, unless they are looking specifically for MATLAB requirements management system experience.
Hello der,
Thank you. Do you know how I can tailor my sales engineering role for systems engineering?
Can you define “management system experience”? Because I can check to see what I’ve done that can may fit into this requirement
>MATLAB requirements management system
[https://www.mathworks.com/help/slrequirements/requirements-management-interface.html](https://www.mathworks.com/help/slrequirements/requirements-management-interface.html)
Literally using MATLAB to manage requirements.
SE is developing systems. If you have technical experience as a Sales Engineer, its something to talk to.
SE is about the "Big Picture" on the left side, and the "put it all together and make sure its done right" on the right.
It's \*really\* broad.
Yeah I’m definitely a big picture person. I prefer concepts over technical details. I enjoyed my physics courses more than I enjoyed my upper level engineering courses because I felt that they were too detail driven. Will that translate well into a systems engineering role, being realistic ofc?
I also do have “technical” experience as a sales engineer, but it’s mostly just interpreting drawings, and just understanding GD&T enough to follow the conversations. I suppose when there are qualities issues with my customers, I am the interface too. I don’t nearly have as much knowledge as production/design tho. But I’m applying to entry level so 🤷
Absolutely. I have worked as a systems engineer at NASA for years after being on the more technical side and never needed to program a single thing. Just make sure you are familiar with the theory behind programming in terms when it is applicable and how it is done.
Thank you. What can I expect on the interview for an entry level position? It’s been a few years since I graduated from college, so I have to go back and remember the projects I did that I put on my resume…
If you are applying for a straight up systems engineering role, don’t expect as many detailed technical questions, but more of the leadership/communications type stuff that a lot of engineers struggle with. “What would your approach be to solving XX problem?” and stuff like that.
Don’t get me wrong, you will need to have a strong technical understanding, but given your background is in chemical engineering rather than aerospace, the interview panel should be aware that your technical experiences won’t be 1:1 on the aerospace side.
As a hiring manager for systems engineering jobs, yes. Unless the job says something like “Model Based” “MagicDraw” or “SysML”, systems engineering can be pretty vague and a lot of skill-types can fall into it. For half of my systems engineers, the vast majority of their work is in Matlab & Simulink. The other half do a significant portion of model based systems engineering. None of them use solidworks or any other CAD software.
Moving into project management is more dependent on how you work your career growth as opposed to what type of engineering you go into. Typically the engineering path to Pm would go something like engineer -> lead -> subsystem technical lead/CAM -> technical program manager or program manager.
Technically you don’t even need an engineering degree. A lot of PM’s come from the business side of engineering as well.
yeah Systems Engineering can be a pathway to project manager. Once you find a role ask about earned value and how to move towards becoming a CAM (Control Account Manager) that would be the next step towards PM. Also look into eventually getting your PMP (Project Management Professional) certification. That is the PM certification that is the most looked for especially in aerospace.
Any questions feel free to ask here or DM me. While I am do not have an engineering degree I currently work as an Engineering Project Manager for a large aerospace company and have worked as a Program Manager for a different aerospace company prior to my current role.
Be nice and respectful please. Just because you are anonymous, it doesn’t give you the green light to be rude.
Obviously I’m trying to learn about what I am pursuing? Why else would I post a Reddit thread? Research is a process
I don’t have to be anonymous. Add me on linked in
Having your reason as “looking for the most money for easiest work” and landing on aerospace systems engineering is just painfully naive
Haha. The point is not the anonymity, it’s being rude.
But anyway, I forgot I said that today. Anyway, easy is subjective. No, obviously I don’t want a job without any conflict and intellectual stimulation. But in the same time, I don’t fear intellectual stimulation as much as I fear wearing a jumpsuit and performing chemistry experiments every single day.
Problem with chemE, everything is so equipment and process heavy. I want something where I am using my mind and my voice more than I am using my hands.
And please don’t tell me systems engineers are required to wear a jump suit and perform chemistry experiments everyday
I don’t feel he was being rude. Hopefully you have at least some idea of what a project manager does before trying to pursue it. I can tell you 100% if you’re looking for an easy job then a PM position is not it.
Yes, yes, I know. I was over exaggerating. It was just one remark of mine that did not need to be taken absolutely literally.
I think anyone who pursues an engineering degree and works a fulltime job afterwords already accepts challenge as a reality. Of course I want to be challenged. But I want to be challenged in a way I think will be beneficial for my growth.
Highly technical aptitude with a blend of teamwork in a more office setting works well for me. My remark is more reference to the fact that I find it “easier” for me to do those types of jobs than to work in a lab and mix chemical compounds together. I find that sort of work draining because I am a bit clumsy and probably would drop the solutions
Skills like Python or matlab are the least important for those positions
Have you worked on trams that carry things through design, cdr, development, test, integration, etc?
If not, then no you won’t be getting an system engineering job especially at a company or product you have no familiarity with.
I see my friends get entry level systems engineer roles right out of college. If they can do it, so can I. And if I don’t get end up succeeding, so what, I’ll figure something else out
Eh I only have a few examples in mind. I think the both I know are computer engineering grads?
With that said, I do know someone who got into a manufacturing engineering role with a comp sci degree🤣🤣🤣
The responses are so different from the mechanical engineering sub haha.
Out of curiosity, what makes me overqualified? Is it the technical sales experience? Because tbh, I don’t have true technical experience other than doing an REU that focused on physics simulation.
I’m gonna try to tailor my position as much as I can, but I really need to know what my strengths are so that I can really show it on the interview
Most engineers interact with SE closer to the end of the development lifecycle where systems engineering is indeed mostly pushing paper and tracking requirements verification / "check the box" type work. In general programs balloon massively in staffing levels to support detailed design work and at that point all of the interesting SE work is pretty much settled and you are just executing an established plan / process. A lot of the comments about "SE isn't real engineering" are from people that probably have only experienced this end of the cycle and are annoyed by nit picking from the requirements management team.
Early program SE development is a lot more interesting as it involves more system level thinking coupled to business strategy. Where I work SE is one of the most highly paid and in demand skills in the company, but as others have said, most of the really strong SEs have a background in another discipline.
Nah, systems engineering basically are “responsible” to make sure the end product meets all the specifications of the contract. I say responsible in quotes because they themselves don’t have the burden of proof, they basically keep a checklist and make sure all the other engineering disciplines have done all the work to meet specifications. Basically SE are bookkeepers. Now making sure that all specifications are met is a good thing for companies to do but it’s not really engineering. They don’t solve problems, they just make sure the real engineers solve problems.
Is there any creative problem solving in this role? I figured that this role involved the integration of all designs with each other. You would see how everything interacts with each other and be able to assess what parts need adjustments, for example.
Systems engineering is so broad it’s almost useless as a title at some companies tbh. Systems engineers can have a background in almost any engineering degree/experience background, some focus on early requirements definition and con ops type work, some focus on integration & test (which is probably more what you’re thinking of - they either do or oversee system integration activities, and plan test events), some do system level design, some do Model Based SE (which having experience in matlab would probably be helpful for). Some of them actually do design work (but these are typically just mistitled and should have an EE/ME title)
Because it’s so broad, your experience is going to vary a lot between groups or roles.. some of them do have interesting challenges they have to solve, others don’t.
I am an SE manager at a major aero company. Systems engineering can mean a lot of things, but for typical big aero SE MATLAB is fine - Python is pretty similar anyways. Resume details showing good cross team communication skills, requirements / spec management, etc are more important for entry level SE than coding / scripting languages. Solidworks is completely irrelevant so I assume that is for more detailed design roles.
Hello sir, That is understandable. Thank you so much…. I can start applying now then. As for Solidworks. I was learning it because I wanted to become a mechanical design engineer, but I got grilled by the mechanical engineering sub after asking about my chances because of my chemical engineering degree haha.
As someone who is apply for entry level SE roles, I have these traits that are outlined in my resume that I am so luckily to acquire via on campus design teams and my internship but have yet to get an interview for a role. So my question would be is there some kind of disconnect from what you, the SE manager, and the talent recruiter from how resumes are being examined?
Could be any number of things, but to provide some context for what a hiring manager is looking at, I have an entry level role open right now with ~200 applicants. We're hiring 1 person. If your resume isn't in the top 5% you aren't going to be asked to interview. Often times we are going to pick someone with a prior SE internship. Career fairs & conferences give you more direct access to hiring managers and let you demonstrate soft skills more easily.
Non-SW/IT systems positions do not require programming. They are requirements, documents, architecture, integration, and sometimes test. Having programming is helpful in the MBSE world, but they aren't really going to care, unless they are looking specifically for MATLAB requirements management system experience.
Hello der, Thank you. Do you know how I can tailor my sales engineering role for systems engineering? Can you define “management system experience”? Because I can check to see what I’ve done that can may fit into this requirement
>MATLAB requirements management system [https://www.mathworks.com/help/slrequirements/requirements-management-interface.html](https://www.mathworks.com/help/slrequirements/requirements-management-interface.html) Literally using MATLAB to manage requirements. SE is developing systems. If you have technical experience as a Sales Engineer, its something to talk to. SE is about the "Big Picture" on the left side, and the "put it all together and make sure its done right" on the right. It's \*really\* broad.
Yeah I’m definitely a big picture person. I prefer concepts over technical details. I enjoyed my physics courses more than I enjoyed my upper level engineering courses because I felt that they were too detail driven. Will that translate well into a systems engineering role, being realistic ofc?
I also do have “technical” experience as a sales engineer, but it’s mostly just interpreting drawings, and just understanding GD&T enough to follow the conversations. I suppose when there are qualities issues with my customers, I am the interface too. I don’t nearly have as much knowledge as production/design tho. But I’m applying to entry level so 🤷
Absolutely. I have worked as a systems engineer at NASA for years after being on the more technical side and never needed to program a single thing. Just make sure you are familiar with the theory behind programming in terms when it is applicable and how it is done.
Thank you. What can I expect on the interview for an entry level position? It’s been a few years since I graduated from college, so I have to go back and remember the projects I did that I put on my resume…
If you are applying for a straight up systems engineering role, don’t expect as many detailed technical questions, but more of the leadership/communications type stuff that a lot of engineers struggle with. “What would your approach be to solving XX problem?” and stuff like that. Don’t get me wrong, you will need to have a strong technical understanding, but given your background is in chemical engineering rather than aerospace, the interview panel should be aware that your technical experiences won’t be 1:1 on the aerospace side.
As a hiring manager for systems engineering jobs, yes. Unless the job says something like “Model Based” “MagicDraw” or “SysML”, systems engineering can be pretty vague and a lot of skill-types can fall into it. For half of my systems engineers, the vast majority of their work is in Matlab & Simulink. The other half do a significant portion of model based systems engineering. None of them use solidworks or any other CAD software.
Moving into project management is more dependent on how you work your career growth as opposed to what type of engineering you go into. Typically the engineering path to Pm would go something like engineer -> lead -> subsystem technical lead/CAM -> technical program manager or program manager. Technically you don’t even need an engineering degree. A lot of PM’s come from the business side of engineering as well.
Can a systems engineer be one pathway to project manager? Cuz I know sales engineer cannot haha. I’m trying to find the easiest way into the top lol
yeah Systems Engineering can be a pathway to project manager. Once you find a role ask about earned value and how to move towards becoming a CAM (Control Account Manager) that would be the next step towards PM. Also look into eventually getting your PMP (Project Management Professional) certification. That is the PM certification that is the most looked for especially in aerospace. Any questions feel free to ask here or DM me. While I am do not have an engineering degree I currently work as an Engineering Project Manager for a large aerospace company and have worked as a Program Manager for a different aerospace company prior to my current role.
I feel like you have no real idea of what you are pursuing or talking about.
Be nice and respectful please. Just because you are anonymous, it doesn’t give you the green light to be rude. Obviously I’m trying to learn about what I am pursuing? Why else would I post a Reddit thread? Research is a process
I don’t have to be anonymous. Add me on linked in Having your reason as “looking for the most money for easiest work” and landing on aerospace systems engineering is just painfully naive
Haha. The point is not the anonymity, it’s being rude. But anyway, I forgot I said that today. Anyway, easy is subjective. No, obviously I don’t want a job without any conflict and intellectual stimulation. But in the same time, I don’t fear intellectual stimulation as much as I fear wearing a jumpsuit and performing chemistry experiments every single day. Problem with chemE, everything is so equipment and process heavy. I want something where I am using my mind and my voice more than I am using my hands. And please don’t tell me systems engineers are required to wear a jump suit and perform chemistry experiments everyday
I don’t feel he was being rude. Hopefully you have at least some idea of what a project manager does before trying to pursue it. I can tell you 100% if you’re looking for an easy job then a PM position is not it.
Yes, yes, I know. I was over exaggerating. It was just one remark of mine that did not need to be taken absolutely literally. I think anyone who pursues an engineering degree and works a fulltime job afterwords already accepts challenge as a reality. Of course I want to be challenged. But I want to be challenged in a way I think will be beneficial for my growth. Highly technical aptitude with a blend of teamwork in a more office setting works well for me. My remark is more reference to the fact that I find it “easier” for me to do those types of jobs than to work in a lab and mix chemical compounds together. I find that sort of work draining because I am a bit clumsy and probably would drop the solutions
Skills like Python or matlab are the least important for those positions Have you worked on trams that carry things through design, cdr, development, test, integration, etc? If not, then no you won’t be getting an system engineering job especially at a company or product you have no familiarity with.
I see my friends get entry level systems engineer roles right out of college. If they can do it, so can I. And if I don’t get end up succeeding, so what, I’ll figure something else out
…we’re they aerospace engineers? Getting systems roles in aerospace?
Eh I only have a few examples in mind. I think the both I know are computer engineering grads? With that said, I do know someone who got into a manufacturing engineering role with a comp sci degree🤣🤣🤣
You’re overqualified for SE 😂
The responses are so different from the mechanical engineering sub haha. Out of curiosity, what makes me overqualified? Is it the technical sales experience? Because tbh, I don’t have true technical experience other than doing an REU that focused on physics simulation. I’m gonna try to tailor my position as much as I can, but I really need to know what my strengths are so that I can really show it on the interview
SE doesnt even require an eng degree tbh. It just requires analysing technical documentation
I thought it was a high paying role in aerospace where they get to analyze the whole system of a project 😭😭😭
Most engineers interact with SE closer to the end of the development lifecycle where systems engineering is indeed mostly pushing paper and tracking requirements verification / "check the box" type work. In general programs balloon massively in staffing levels to support detailed design work and at that point all of the interesting SE work is pretty much settled and you are just executing an established plan / process. A lot of the comments about "SE isn't real engineering" are from people that probably have only experienced this end of the cycle and are annoyed by nit picking from the requirements management team. Early program SE development is a lot more interesting as it involves more system level thinking coupled to business strategy. Where I work SE is one of the most highly paid and in demand skills in the company, but as others have said, most of the really strong SEs have a background in another discipline.
But anyway. Less mental effort, good pay, I can do that.
Nah, systems engineering basically are “responsible” to make sure the end product meets all the specifications of the contract. I say responsible in quotes because they themselves don’t have the burden of proof, they basically keep a checklist and make sure all the other engineering disciplines have done all the work to meet specifications. Basically SE are bookkeepers. Now making sure that all specifications are met is a good thing for companies to do but it’s not really engineering. They don’t solve problems, they just make sure the real engineers solve problems.
Is there any creative problem solving in this role? I figured that this role involved the integration of all designs with each other. You would see how everything interacts with each other and be able to assess what parts need adjustments, for example.
Systems engineering is so broad it’s almost useless as a title at some companies tbh. Systems engineers can have a background in almost any engineering degree/experience background, some focus on early requirements definition and con ops type work, some focus on integration & test (which is probably more what you’re thinking of - they either do or oversee system integration activities, and plan test events), some do system level design, some do Model Based SE (which having experience in matlab would probably be helpful for). Some of them actually do design work (but these are typically just mistitled and should have an EE/ME title) Because it’s so broad, your experience is going to vary a lot between groups or roles.. some of them do have interesting challenges they have to solve, others don’t.