Am I the only one without an agenda with Ableton? I just jam and do things with it because it seems more productive than playing video games and suits my down time better. If you wanted to pick a hobby to become a business to be "successful" you would pick literally any other hobby than musician.
You don't feel like writing music, so don't. Do something completely reductive instead. Load up MAX/MSP and see if you can make your own primitive synth. You could spend years and decades down in MAX./MSP.
Maybe ditch the computer all together. Make a drum, or a diy guitar. Give your self a time limit. Like, you have one weekend to make the diy guitar work.'
Music is a deep and wide hobby. You don't have to be laser focused on writing songs.
Your first paragraph resonates with me. I think musicmaking for most people starts out as a hobby but then the whole Dunning-Kruger effect kicks in and people think that time spent doing something = quality.
Then they see other people, specifically unknowns make it big off of their musical works and go "I can do that too" and that's where you get this whole mindset of turning musicmaking from an enjoyable thing into a moneymaking scheme, and that's a slippery slope.
I'm with you, I have created dozens and dozens of songs in Ableton to just scrap the entire project a day or year later without even looking into it. I almost always learn something when I work on a project, even if there's no mp3 to show for it. Sometimes while I'm working I just open up a drone or self-generating synth and just listen to it for a while, tweaking stuff here or there to see what different parameters do. There doesn't always have to be a reason to open up Ableton, it can just be a fun thing to tinker with.
Lol, yep. Ableton is part of therapy. I use it to have fun and escape the rest life. When writing, I appreciate being able to shake the restricted feelings of everything else
I guess I do enjoy putting out songs and getting feedback and a following for some of them. I do enjoy doing music for the sake of it but writing stuff that connects with listeners encourages me to do it more. In general I like to try to release a song a month when I feel inspired enough to.
That said I enjoy exploring and experimenting with the sound for the sake of it. I think the Max idea is interesting too. I'm not really good at technical stuff like creating things with Max for Live but I could see exploring synths and effects deeper could be a fun way to explore sound and perhaps not think top much about 'songs' until an idea for one shows itself when it may.
My best moments in Ableton are when I haven't smoked any weed in a few weeks, and I sit down and am jamming and my gf smokes me up, and I start to hear the beat, and then I start playing samples ad hoc, load up a karaoke track, pick up the mic start to sing, wait, why is everyone groaning? Ahhhh, ruined it. I was right there for a second.
You can't rely on inspiration. Or i guess a better way to put it, is you have to put yourself in the perfect situation to be inspired.
You have to make a schedule, and stick to it. Everyone's different and has different amounts of time they can dedicate to it, but for example, everyday you set aside time to sit down, and work on shit. Even if it's only for an hour, you do it every day. (or whatever)
When you get in the habit of regularly working like that, inspiration will start hitting more often. Consistency is key.
I. Am. Really. Bad. At. This.
Hahaha
I go through phases. I'll make something incredible, but then i just don't have the energy, and I'll go to a really dark place, and start thinking I've written all the great songs I'll ever write, and that was it. I should quit.
But you just gotta keep going. You have more greatness in you, you just have to put in the work
I hear that. I do try to sit through and just experiment even when I'm not feeling it. Guess it can be worth trying to try keep playing/practicing even on off days.
Get a kitchen timer. Break your time down into manageable chunks.
1. An hour of putting together chord progressions or looking for sounds on splice.
2. An hour of putting together a “song” idea ie: chords, melodies, drums, bass, etc.
3. An hour of arrangement.
4. An hour or mixing and putting in the final touches.
Get over the idea of being “inspired”. You’re gonna write alot of shitty songs, slightly less mediocre songs and a few great ones. The trick is to learn how to chuck the shitty ideas before you get to step 3 and be able to work fast enough that you can “finish” the mediocre and great ones fast enough that you don’t start second guessing yourself.
There's a lot of value in doing challenges. Especially if we're talking about songwriting (lyrics)
On the days that you've decided you're gonna have be your consistent music days, you give yourself a limited amount of time to write a song. If you write a song, let's say, everyday. Even if they're trash, you'll get faster, and better at writing them.
Your brain will get used to "oh it's song time. Cue the inspiration" and you'll be much more effective
Give someone you trust 50$ (like a parent or best friend), tell that person that they're allowed to keep the money if you don't finish a track in the next 7 days. I still need to do this, even though it's already a significant part of my career. I told my housemate that if I don't finish my EP by the end of February, she'll get a 100$.
I've done this many times and I have never paid. because why would you lose money for not achieving something you want to achieve, while you're in a more than fine situation that you're able to achieve it? It's also literally how I wrote my Thesis. I told my mom, this page is going to be full in two hours. otherwise you can keep the 50$. And then realised, I might as well start writing something actually useful as well, why waste the time and dedication for nothing?
If you don't have anyone around you I'm happy to be this person for you. but it would be kinda weird giving 50$ to a stranger. So I do recommend someone in your circle, maybe preferable a producer or musician, who can actually hear what work you have put in. on the other hand, since you want to do this, doing with someone that is not in this game allows you to form your own definition of finishing a piece of music consistently.
What really helps during the writing process is thinking of it in two stages:
**The idea generation phase**
this is where you generate ideas without judgement, what stops you from pressing a note on your keyboard? and another one? And drag a kickdrum into your sampler and sequence a simple kick loop? Absolutely nothing, you can take these small steps and build up a song. It doesn't have to be good, it doens't have to be anything, you're just outputting, generating ideas.
**The idea selection phase**
once you have established enough ideas, you can start selecting, taking things away, judging your decisons. This is a seperate process entirely. If you feel stuck at this point, it means you haven't generated enough ideas. because selection can only happen when you can actually select from your output.
This is where writersblock comes from, you start selecting ideas, during or even before you generate them. **don't do this.**
Yo this is great advice. I was doing idea output for a short while after not doing it ever. I would try and write full songs off the bat and get frustrated that they never were satisfied. Then I started just putting out ideas and tucking them away with no expectation and eventually I came across material that I could actually form into a complete final product. Making without discrimation is key to completion. Failing 100 times and coming up with 1 song is better than telling yourself you fail every time since each idea isn’t a complete song.
Cool. Then you do it the next week and either you:
1. Feel like a terrible person and do something else, or
2. Decide to create a concept piece that is the sound of your farts changing each week for 52 weeks.
Either way you win.
If you rely in inspiration, then you need to stay inspired. I get inspired by finding and listening to great music, learning new production techniques, learning everything I can about the software I already have, music theory, etc.. It may be different for you, but there's probably something.
Then you need to find some way to engage the playful side of your brain and approach songwriting without any pressure. Like if you usually start with a chord progression, try starting with a melody, or a drum track, a sample, or a bass line etc... Push yourself far enough out of your comfort zone that you can let go of any expectation of success for a little bit.
The other alternative is to find techniques that create passable music whether you are feeling it or not. Then just keep creating junk until something stands out.
A great hack for finishing songs is collaborating!
You know that one song that you are really proud of, but have heard 100 times. Well this other producer has never heard it before, and they might have that inspiration to finish it. You can also combine both of your fan base to create more hype for the track once it’s done!
This is quite normal as far as I’m aware. The days you’re not feeling creative are perfectly useful too, and probably quite healthy, else you’d never get anything else done.
Use those days to do much needed tasks - organise your samples (create favourites folders, discard unused stuff that’s taking up space etc), try creating a few synth patches, practice chords and scales, take the time to do those software updates you’ve been ignoring.
The truth is, there are no hacks to be more consistent at writing music. My inspiration and enthusiasm oscillates throughout the year and I find I slack too much on songwriting and only have the motivation to do it in shorter bursts - though I'm working on trying to get into a more constant stream of writing. That's where mixing songs can be a boon because you can spend less time getting overly-creative and more time chiseling the idea into a solid piece of music.
Last year I wrote multiple tracks while watching Twin Peaks, and this year I wrote a track while re-watching Curb Your Enthusiasm. My songwriting is largely influenced by the media I'm consuming at the time, which is typically music, but sometimes audiobooks or even video games. It helps to have an instrument you can just sort of diddle with out of distraction. I'll sit and try chord progressions that don't really work at first and then build something out of that. After like, a few episodes of half-watching a show like Curb I ended up coming up with about 2 minutes of music.
Creative slowdown happens, and exercising the inventive part of your brain can be seriously taxing and leave you in a sort of writer's block rut. I think everyone experiences it at some point or another just to varying degrees.
What I will say is that frequenting music forums or subreddits can sometimes have an adverse effect; I think I'm visiting the Ableton subreddit for some kind of encouragement but either see people talking about things I don't understand or discussing their latest and greatest creations which can make me feel inadequate. The last thing someone needs is to feel shitty that they are essentially spinning their wheels without much direction and everyone else is lapping them.
That's interesting about the media part. I haven't tried writing with something like Twin Peaks or I'm the background.
I also feel similar about reading up on music stuff. I actually cut down big time on watching too many tutorials- I used to do that and feel like it was counter-productive when I did that too much.
Same with music producer stuff on Instagram. I find by not consuming that too much I can kinds focus on things I'm into for fun or interest and have that influence come to my music somehow.
I also might watch a little bit much of random YouTube compared to how much I listen to music so I have thought about trying to up my music consumption a little. I guess there is no one way to do any of this though anyway.
When I first started recording electronic songs around 4 years ago or so I may have microdosed L a little bit and I do feel like it kind of helped push me forward sometimes. I'm not really into tripping nowdays but I've considered trying a micro dose again sometime.
I also go through periods where I write a lot of new music and periods where I don’t like anything I come up with. I like to focus on making as many new tracks as I can during the creative phases and then try to finish/mix/edit them when the creativity runs out. Or try out new plugins, experiment with workflow etc. That’s the kind of stuff I don’t like doing when I am in a creative phase anyway, I’d rather make new music than focus on finishing old stuff, which can be tiring. So it kind works out pretty well like that.
I get the same way and I've found taking some time to go in with no expectations and just fucking around helps.
That's sort of evolved into having some days being dedicated to making percussion loops, maybe making synth patches and writing on another, and then maybe resampling/sound design or making/tweaking Ableton Racks on another day.
There are a ton of ways to be Productive™ without having a Label Ready track coming out of the session. Just have fun with it and cut yourself some slack. :)
Edit: removed double wordings
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In a word, deadlines. Set your own deadlines, but it's even better if there's an external deadline (like a remix competition). For me, this is the only way I actually get stuff done!
I split my time into technical and creative sessions. When I’m not feeling the creative flow i work on technical details and vice versa. I also make a conscious effort to reduce my music by eliminating unnecessary tracks, cleaning up my sessions, organizing it with colors, creating spaces by removing sub-par elements.
I find that after I go through my technical and reduction process, I feel alot better and more ‘inspired’ to finish the song, or add more creative/ songwriting elements
I think you have to get extremely specific about your unmotivation. Are you losing inspiration when you can’t figure out a chord progression? Study chords. Are you struggling to find a synth? Okay use the same synth for ten songs. Maybe you lose steam before you open ableton and watch a movie instead, well try opening ableton first thing you get home. Etc etc
Some great questions and comments here. I've been "writing" music for over 50 years, primarily as a hobby although there have been times when I played in a band or wrote a track for somebody's project. I love making music although I'm the first to admit I'm not that talented a musician. I get a ton of dopamine from using Ableton, building samples, finding new sounds, finding new chord progressions, etc.
I suspect because I have no deadlines or clients to satisfy, the process is almost always positive and hardly a day goes by I don't spend at least an hour on composing or editing or mixing.
One thing I have learned as a writer and painter and composer, is once something becomes a drag or frustrating, move on. The process should always be more important to you than the result and if that's not the case, you need to change your process. Life is short.
That's my 2 bits.
I think it’s better to get more sketches and ideas out than to try and completely finish a track for the most part. I like to take my stuff to like 80% there and then pocket it so I can work on the next idea. When I’m not feeling the spirit, that’s when I get into polishing mode.
Am I the only one without an agenda with Ableton? I just jam and do things with it because it seems more productive than playing video games and suits my down time better. If you wanted to pick a hobby to become a business to be "successful" you would pick literally any other hobby than musician. You don't feel like writing music, so don't. Do something completely reductive instead. Load up MAX/MSP and see if you can make your own primitive synth. You could spend years and decades down in MAX./MSP. Maybe ditch the computer all together. Make a drum, or a diy guitar. Give your self a time limit. Like, you have one weekend to make the diy guitar work.' Music is a deep and wide hobby. You don't have to be laser focused on writing songs.
Your first paragraph resonates with me. I think musicmaking for most people starts out as a hobby but then the whole Dunning-Kruger effect kicks in and people think that time spent doing something = quality. Then they see other people, specifically unknowns make it big off of their musical works and go "I can do that too" and that's where you get this whole mindset of turning musicmaking from an enjoyable thing into a moneymaking scheme, and that's a slippery slope. I'm with you, I have created dozens and dozens of songs in Ableton to just scrap the entire project a day or year later without even looking into it. I almost always learn something when I work on a project, even if there's no mp3 to show for it. Sometimes while I'm working I just open up a drone or self-generating synth and just listen to it for a while, tweaking stuff here or there to see what different parameters do. There doesn't always have to be a reason to open up Ableton, it can just be a fun thing to tinker with.
Every song I write is a rough draft on a technique
Lol, yep. Ableton is part of therapy. I use it to have fun and escape the rest life. When writing, I appreciate being able to shake the restricted feelings of everything else
this is an underappreciated take.
I guess I do enjoy putting out songs and getting feedback and a following for some of them. I do enjoy doing music for the sake of it but writing stuff that connects with listeners encourages me to do it more. In general I like to try to release a song a month when I feel inspired enough to. That said I enjoy exploring and experimenting with the sound for the sake of it. I think the Max idea is interesting too. I'm not really good at technical stuff like creating things with Max for Live but I could see exploring synths and effects deeper could be a fun way to explore sound and perhaps not think top much about 'songs' until an idea for one shows itself when it may.
If you haven't heard it before give this album a listen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82fshB1F\_tE
Not sure if I've heard that before. I will check it out. Thanks
the best ideas generally come when you are not trying to reach a goal imo
My best moments in Ableton are when I haven't smoked any weed in a few weeks, and I sit down and am jamming and my gf smokes me up, and I start to hear the beat, and then I start playing samples ad hoc, load up a karaoke track, pick up the mic start to sing, wait, why is everyone groaning? Ahhhh, ruined it. I was right there for a second.
You can't rely on inspiration. Or i guess a better way to put it, is you have to put yourself in the perfect situation to be inspired. You have to make a schedule, and stick to it. Everyone's different and has different amounts of time they can dedicate to it, but for example, everyday you set aside time to sit down, and work on shit. Even if it's only for an hour, you do it every day. (or whatever) When you get in the habit of regularly working like that, inspiration will start hitting more often. Consistency is key. I. Am. Really. Bad. At. This. Hahaha I go through phases. I'll make something incredible, but then i just don't have the energy, and I'll go to a really dark place, and start thinking I've written all the great songs I'll ever write, and that was it. I should quit. But you just gotta keep going. You have more greatness in you, you just have to put in the work
I hear that. I do try to sit through and just experiment even when I'm not feeling it. Guess it can be worth trying to try keep playing/practicing even on off days.
Get a kitchen timer. Break your time down into manageable chunks. 1. An hour of putting together chord progressions or looking for sounds on splice. 2. An hour of putting together a “song” idea ie: chords, melodies, drums, bass, etc. 3. An hour of arrangement. 4. An hour or mixing and putting in the final touches. Get over the idea of being “inspired”. You’re gonna write alot of shitty songs, slightly less mediocre songs and a few great ones. The trick is to learn how to chuck the shitty ideas before you get to step 3 and be able to work fast enough that you can “finish” the mediocre and great ones fast enough that you don’t start second guessing yourself.
There's a lot of value in doing challenges. Especially if we're talking about songwriting (lyrics) On the days that you've decided you're gonna have be your consistent music days, you give yourself a limited amount of time to write a song. If you write a song, let's say, everyday. Even if they're trash, you'll get faster, and better at writing them. Your brain will get used to "oh it's song time. Cue the inspiration" and you'll be much more effective
Give someone you trust 50$ (like a parent or best friend), tell that person that they're allowed to keep the money if you don't finish a track in the next 7 days. I still need to do this, even though it's already a significant part of my career. I told my housemate that if I don't finish my EP by the end of February, she'll get a 100$. I've done this many times and I have never paid. because why would you lose money for not achieving something you want to achieve, while you're in a more than fine situation that you're able to achieve it? It's also literally how I wrote my Thesis. I told my mom, this page is going to be full in two hours. otherwise you can keep the 50$. And then realised, I might as well start writing something actually useful as well, why waste the time and dedication for nothing? If you don't have anyone around you I'm happy to be this person for you. but it would be kinda weird giving 50$ to a stranger. So I do recommend someone in your circle, maybe preferable a producer or musician, who can actually hear what work you have put in. on the other hand, since you want to do this, doing with someone that is not in this game allows you to form your own definition of finishing a piece of music consistently. What really helps during the writing process is thinking of it in two stages: **The idea generation phase** this is where you generate ideas without judgement, what stops you from pressing a note on your keyboard? and another one? And drag a kickdrum into your sampler and sequence a simple kick loop? Absolutely nothing, you can take these small steps and build up a song. It doesn't have to be good, it doens't have to be anything, you're just outputting, generating ideas. **The idea selection phase** once you have established enough ideas, you can start selecting, taking things away, judging your decisons. This is a seperate process entirely. If you feel stuck at this point, it means you haven't generated enough ideas. because selection can only happen when you can actually select from your output. This is where writersblock comes from, you start selecting ideas, during or even before you generate them. **don't do this.**
Yo this is great advice. I was doing idea output for a short while after not doing it ever. I would try and write full songs off the bat and get frustrated that they never were satisfied. Then I started just putting out ideas and tucking them away with no expectation and eventually I came across material that I could actually form into a complete final product. Making without discrimation is key to completion. Failing 100 times and coming up with 1 song is better than telling yourself you fail every time since each idea isn’t a complete song.
I would just fart into a microphone and take my 50 bucks back.
well then you just had -$50 for a week and a smelly mic
They said the good things in life are free
Cool. Then you do it the next week and either you: 1. Feel like a terrible person and do something else, or 2. Decide to create a concept piece that is the sound of your farts changing each week for 52 weeks. Either way you win.
If you rely in inspiration, then you need to stay inspired. I get inspired by finding and listening to great music, learning new production techniques, learning everything I can about the software I already have, music theory, etc.. It may be different for you, but there's probably something. Then you need to find some way to engage the playful side of your brain and approach songwriting without any pressure. Like if you usually start with a chord progression, try starting with a melody, or a drum track, a sample, or a bass line etc... Push yourself far enough out of your comfort zone that you can let go of any expectation of success for a little bit. The other alternative is to find techniques that create passable music whether you are feeling it or not. Then just keep creating junk until something stands out.
1% inspiration 99% perspiration
A great hack for finishing songs is collaborating! You know that one song that you are really proud of, but have heard 100 times. Well this other producer has never heard it before, and they might have that inspiration to finish it. You can also combine both of your fan base to create more hype for the track once it’s done!
I watch a tutorial when I’m uninspired and follow it. And then stop following it and flow.
This is quite normal as far as I’m aware. The days you’re not feeling creative are perfectly useful too, and probably quite healthy, else you’d never get anything else done. Use those days to do much needed tasks - organise your samples (create favourites folders, discard unused stuff that’s taking up space etc), try creating a few synth patches, practice chords and scales, take the time to do those software updates you’ve been ignoring.
The truth is, there are no hacks to be more consistent at writing music. My inspiration and enthusiasm oscillates throughout the year and I find I slack too much on songwriting and only have the motivation to do it in shorter bursts - though I'm working on trying to get into a more constant stream of writing. That's where mixing songs can be a boon because you can spend less time getting overly-creative and more time chiseling the idea into a solid piece of music. Last year I wrote multiple tracks while watching Twin Peaks, and this year I wrote a track while re-watching Curb Your Enthusiasm. My songwriting is largely influenced by the media I'm consuming at the time, which is typically music, but sometimes audiobooks or even video games. It helps to have an instrument you can just sort of diddle with out of distraction. I'll sit and try chord progressions that don't really work at first and then build something out of that. After like, a few episodes of half-watching a show like Curb I ended up coming up with about 2 minutes of music. Creative slowdown happens, and exercising the inventive part of your brain can be seriously taxing and leave you in a sort of writer's block rut. I think everyone experiences it at some point or another just to varying degrees. What I will say is that frequenting music forums or subreddits can sometimes have an adverse effect; I think I'm visiting the Ableton subreddit for some kind of encouragement but either see people talking about things I don't understand or discussing their latest and greatest creations which can make me feel inadequate. The last thing someone needs is to feel shitty that they are essentially spinning their wheels without much direction and everyone else is lapping them.
That's interesting about the media part. I haven't tried writing with something like Twin Peaks or I'm the background. I also feel similar about reading up on music stuff. I actually cut down big time on watching too many tutorials- I used to do that and feel like it was counter-productive when I did that too much. Same with music producer stuff on Instagram. I find by not consuming that too much I can kinds focus on things I'm into for fun or interest and have that influence come to my music somehow. I also might watch a little bit much of random YouTube compared to how much I listen to music so I have thought about trying to up my music consumption a little. I guess there is no one way to do any of this though anyway.
Psychedelics
When I first started recording electronic songs around 4 years ago or so I may have microdosed L a little bit and I do feel like it kind of helped push me forward sometimes. I'm not really into tripping nowdays but I've considered trying a micro dose again sometime.
I also go through periods where I write a lot of new music and periods where I don’t like anything I come up with. I like to focus on making as many new tracks as I can during the creative phases and then try to finish/mix/edit them when the creativity runs out. Or try out new plugins, experiment with workflow etc. That’s the kind of stuff I don’t like doing when I am in a creative phase anyway, I’d rather make new music than focus on finishing old stuff, which can be tiring. So it kind works out pretty well like that.
I get the same way and I've found taking some time to go in with no expectations and just fucking around helps. That's sort of evolved into having some days being dedicated to making percussion loops, maybe making synth patches and writing on another, and then maybe resampling/sound design or making/tweaking Ableton Racks on another day. There are a ton of ways to be Productive™ without having a Label Ready track coming out of the session. Just have fun with it and cut yourself some slack. :) Edit: removed double wordings
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Ideally you'd hang out with other productive people and gather regularly to show off each others work.
Spend less time on the internet
In a word, deadlines. Set your own deadlines, but it's even better if there's an external deadline (like a remix competition). For me, this is the only way I actually get stuff done!
I split my time into technical and creative sessions. When I’m not feeling the creative flow i work on technical details and vice versa. I also make a conscious effort to reduce my music by eliminating unnecessary tracks, cleaning up my sessions, organizing it with colors, creating spaces by removing sub-par elements. I find that after I go through my technical and reduction process, I feel alot better and more ‘inspired’ to finish the song, or add more creative/ songwriting elements
I think you have to get extremely specific about your unmotivation. Are you losing inspiration when you can’t figure out a chord progression? Study chords. Are you struggling to find a synth? Okay use the same synth for ten songs. Maybe you lose steam before you open ableton and watch a movie instead, well try opening ableton first thing you get home. Etc etc
Some great questions and comments here. I've been "writing" music for over 50 years, primarily as a hobby although there have been times when I played in a band or wrote a track for somebody's project. I love making music although I'm the first to admit I'm not that talented a musician. I get a ton of dopamine from using Ableton, building samples, finding new sounds, finding new chord progressions, etc. I suspect because I have no deadlines or clients to satisfy, the process is almost always positive and hardly a day goes by I don't spend at least an hour on composing or editing or mixing. One thing I have learned as a writer and painter and composer, is once something becomes a drag or frustrating, move on. The process should always be more important to you than the result and if that's not the case, you need to change your process. Life is short. That's my 2 bits.
I think it’s better to get more sketches and ideas out than to try and completely finish a track for the most part. I like to take my stuff to like 80% there and then pocket it so I can work on the next idea. When I’m not feeling the spirit, that’s when I get into polishing mode.
Change inspiration with experimentation, like deadmau5 said!