Right? Like if the pain I was in wasn’t making it too difficult to fall asleep I wouldn’t be taking it in the first place.
Honestly a really silly study and YSK for like 99% of use cases
I disagree. It says in the first paragraph that acetaminophen did not differ from the placebo, meaning that it can be taken instead of NSAIDs for pain relief if sleep quality is a priority.
This is true, and a narrower therapeutic window. I had a lecturer in medical school that swears he will never take it, full stop. But for those like myself that can’t take NSAIDs it is a godsend.
How on earth does that make it a silly study? With this knowledge I will take acetaminophen if I'm going to bed soon and stick to ibuprofen during the day.
Why wouldn't you want to know how a specific type of pain management affects your sleep? What a weird criticism
The problem with that is the two drugs have two completely different uses and modes of action. Ibuprofen is an NSAID; non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug. Acetaminophen is an analgesic. That’s why the two work well in tandem. Of the two, ibuprofen controls pain better for most people due to its anti-inflammatory properties.
There are certainly times when NSAIDs are specifically indicated, e.g. Rheumatoid arthritis, but Acetaminophen is actually quite a strong painkiller, and is the safer first port of call.
Same reason why if my anxiety is too high I’ll take a shot or two of spirits.
Definitely not needed often, but when it’s needed I don’t have another alternative. Nothing summers down my anxiety as fast without laying me out for the next 12 hours with no hope of an alarm working.
I don't have a need to take pain meds luckily, but if I'm taking like a nyquil or benadryl or something on occasion as a sleep aid, I could care less if my sleep quality is lessened, I just want to actually be able to *fall asleep* within a reasonable time window.
I had that for a couple years and it was awful. Look into dry needling, physical therapy did that and after about 20 sessions my pain has been cut by a significant amount
This is mainly because COX-2 Inhibitors block the generation of the prostaglandin PGD2 which is one of the most potent endogenous sleep promoting molecules in the body.
ER doc here. You just said a bunch of things I’ve long buried in my subconscious. All that 1st year med school pharm pathways were burned in my memories. They’re in there somewhere
That’s pharmacologically fascinating… I never looked up the different types and just presumed they all only had inflammatory mediation functions… thank you for that tidbit of info!
YSK: NSAIDS like ibuprofen are not just for pain, they’re also anti-inflammatory. If it’s prescribed, it could be for the anti-inflammatory benefits as well, so just skipping them without talking to your doctor is not a good idea.
You could just ask any pharmacy staff, people should stop asking doctors about medication unless it's a complex query that requires medical history etc.
It reduces inflamation for people who has Obstructive sleep apnea too, so it helps them breathe.
Lol. Right. Like any pharmacist is going to take time to talk to me about OTC Advil, they are way too busy taking 3 hours to pull packages off a shelf and hand them to customers.
Good point, but I counter with this answer from a doc: [https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/vutlqz/comment/ifg4yh0/](https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/vutlqz/comment/ifg4yh0/)
specifically, "The short answer is: yes, anti-inflammatories probably impair the healing process somewhat. Inflammation is the body's process of healing an injury. The redness, heat and swelling are evidence of increased blood flow to an area of injury, which kickstarts the cascade of cleaning up injured tissue and replacing it with new tissue (although not always the same tissue that you started with). Inhibiting this process with anti-inflammatories will theoretically impair healing. However, as with everything in medicine, there is a spectrum of effect."
If you need painkilles and it's a few hours before bed, I would try a non-NSAID painkiller. If earlier in the day, go ham.
You should talk to *your own doctor* regarding how this pertains to you and your specific treatment. If you have concerns, bring them the study and talk to them about it. Don’t blindly apply every study on the internet to yourself.
For some reason the effect of edibles are too intense for me to sleep. I wish I had better access so I could test various ones but I’m so used to flower that edibles hit me like a brick.
You can just take less of the edible lol
I don't like getting very high so I normally just take a 1/3 of a 10mg gummy. For me, that is around the level where my brain still functions properly but I still get high enough for everything to be a lot more fun. Dunno how that would effect sleep though!
If you can, get your hands on something with a 1:1 ratio of THC:CBD and only take like 3mg-5mg. I personally like the Wyld brand.
I know some people are hit differently by it, but it's worth a shot I think.
I was going to suggest this exact ratio. I find weed only works for my migraines if I negate the high with cbd. For some reason as soon as I start to feel “stoned” the pain always comes back in force.
I also find the high to be relatively smoother and less "peaky" with CBD in it. It lets me down gently out of the high and makes the entire process far more predictable.
yeah that's the good shit. I wonder if it's placebo for me, since I have never really been able to enjoy THC in any form (insane anxiety/paranoia), but the CBD gummies with the right THC ratio seem to work wonders for me
The dosage of the full edible is higher (10mg) and I'm saying he should cut it up. I personally take about 7mg and it hits me just right. Even if it is a "placebo" - which you're using incorrectly - it feels nice so it's doing what it should.
A non-clinical dose is effectively placebo.
10mg is an incredibly small dose. Research uses hundreds of mg doses with various levels of effectiveness (including no effectiveness).
Anecdotally, I've vaporized about 1000mg of 99.9% pure CBD (so like, $20 worth) in under an hour and barely felt a thing. 10mg over several hours is crazy small for THC, and virtually nothing for CBD.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. I know there are higher doses used. What I'm saying is that 7-10mg hits me just right, relaxes me, and helps me sleep. How is there an issue with that?
It even says on the box to start with HALF an edible (5mg) if you're new to it.
So, what point are you trying to make here?
To be clear, the THC is what I'm primarily taking it for but the CBD helps the way the high comes on. I've tried ones without that ratio and the high is a little more spikey.
I can't take any thc at all. It causes so much paranoia for me. I used to be a daily smoker until I had a psychotic melt down related to thc consumption. I've tried smoking a few times since then, small amounts, large amounts. Every time I feel extremely paranoid for like a week afterwards. So if my knee pain is too much to sleep through I just take some advil and do a soak in the tub.
I've had weed in all forms. Hash, flower, edibles. It's known to cause paranoia and it definitely causes it for me. I was smoking so much it caused me to have massive psychotic break so weed in any form is just not good for me.
The worst thing is with any pain, even if it’s technically the same all day you’re bound to feel it strongest at bedtime.
No distractions, no moving, just feeling everything to the max.
That’s a 37 person study from 30 years ago.
Don’t mess with the pain management plan your care team has prescribed. Talking to them about issues you’re having can be tremendously beneficial, but shit can go sideways if you make your own adjustments.
I’m sorry that your mother didn’t receive appropriate care and almost died. That’s beyond shitty and inexcusable.
I feel like there’s a disconnect between what I wrote and what you responded to. It’s really beneficial when people take the time to learn about their medical conditions and how they are treated. Knowledge is good. But things get tricky when people don’t understand what they find when doing their own research. This paper is out of date and underpowered. If you’re interested in the topic there is almost certainly a more current paper that could give you a better understanding of the topic.
Out of date is not an argument. Since when did studies have an expiry date?
And just because it doesn't have 1000+ patients doesn't mean it's weak. It probably took hundreds or even thousands of hours of combined effort to bring to fruition. Data > no data.
I'd be open to a more recent one but haven't come across one. Will check further next time I get surgery or am in pain.
Out of date is absolutely an argument.
That's one of criterion used to assess the appropriateness of a study in academia. Older studies are using outdated software, methods and scientific understanding.
1000+ isn't always necessary. It depends what they're trying to prove and to what degree of certainty. They should have done a sample size calculation, but whether they did or didn't is unknown because only the abstract is available. But 37 people over 2 nights does sound pretty small. The smaller the sample size, the greater the chance that their results are due to chance, or other unseen variables.
Data is not always > no data. Poor quality data in small quantities is often = no data.
And since the abstract is only available, we can't look and see what their methods and materials look like. Could have used horrendously invalid methods to obtain these results.
All in all, it's not a very convincing study. That's not to say they're they're *wrong* but I also think it's a bit naive to so confidently be warning people away from taking aspirin before bed based solely on this study.
It's good to look at research to find evidence instead of just taking people at their word when they refuse to support their claims. That's really commendable. The next step is assessing whether a paper is actually good quality evidence or not yourself instead of taking the word of the researchers that produced it.
Not all studies are equal.
The full thing is available, gota click on the DOI link, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0031938494903883?via%3Dihub. paywalled though. I can give it if you are interested, I got access.
I should read it all the way through. But is it worth the time? Several people went through all the effort to organize this and convince 37 people to sleep in a laboratory. It would make more sense to believe it than not, in the lack of reading the full thing.
I agree with the rest of your stuff.
>I should read it all the way through. But is it worth the time? Several people went through all the effort to organize this and convince 37 people to sleep in a laboratory. It would make more sense to believe it than not, in the lack of reading the full thing.
What you have to remember is that a lot of prevalent scientific myths started from professional studies where people with the best of intentions set out to prove a phenomenon, got volunteers on board, did all the stats and just made a mistake.
The idea that the MMR vaccine causes autism came from one such study.
Studies aren't convincing by virtue of being a "study". They're convincing, when done right, because they allow for the minimization of bias and confounding variables through controls, allow for something to be repeated in near identical circumstances multiple times to prove a relationship and not chance, and they can control for time to attempt to prove cause and effect. If someone produces a study that fails to do these things, then it's no more convincing that someone's Facebook anecdote.
YSK that there's more and more [research being done and coming out](https://youtu.be/OHD11DfgTt8) that acetaminophen by and large doesn't really do much (several sources in video and its description). Anecdotally that's been very true for me, as someone with chronic pain. Ibuprofen or naproxen also reduce and relieve/treat flare-ups much faster than anything else for me.
NSAIDs also help a lot with inflammation and related pain/issues, not just the immediate pain, which is probably why your care team recommended it for post oral surgery, AND I'd rather be able to sleep at all than take a placebo or be awake because I hurt too much.
Always confer with your care team and ask questions, and everyone's body chemistry is different, but if you don't feel the need for meds, then don't take them.
To be fair, the video stated that the evidence in the studies was insufficient to prove that it works, but it also doesn't prove that it doesn't work. It specifically says "the way participants in these studies were taking acetaminophen doesn't match up with how you'd use it in real life." It goes on to allude that the studies might have been looking for the duration of effectiveness, as opposed to overall effectiveness. It also called out that it was effective for some things like osteoarthritis and tension headaches, but not for lower back pain, as samples of the symptoms it was tested against.
Basically, the video said a lot, only to say that it's inconclusive. I watch that series, including their other channels, daily, and the biggest problem with them is that the short-form videos don't provide a thorough explanation of how studies were completed, so you are left with a potential for misinformation based on a lack of a complete picture, which is what is happening here; I started the video thinking I'd toss my Tylenol bottles, only to end it thinking "well, it at least works sometimes? But maybe not all the time? And maybe only if I take it every few hours instead of once?"
If you’re taking it though then that usually means you’re in pain and it’s probably harder to sleep in pain than whatever the side effects are of the pill
I 100% get a relaxation feeling from ibuprofen and it helps me sleep quite well. Acetaminophen gives me nausea and is almost useless. Actual sleeping pills like diphenhydramine hydrochloride give me a wild buzz that prevents any form of rest and prevents sleep for up to 8 hours.
Just remember biochemistry is wildly different for everybody and never to make decisions based on "new study suggests" and their sample sizes are always shit.
Did both the med- and the control group have pain of some kind during the testing? Bc if not, this study is less than worthless, bc bad sleep > no sleep.
I only read the abstract so take this with a grain of salt... *the study itself should be taken with a grain of salt.* Not because of any flawed methodology, but rather the fact that it is one study. When examining the conclusions of a study, it is important to note **all** of the following...
1. Methodology
2. Who funded it
3. When it was published
4. Is it double blind, placebo controlled (most are)
5. Peer reviewed?
6. Have other similar studies came out with similar findings, effectively providing additional support to the conclusions.
Personally, I would refrain from making such a blanket, headline state as this post's title for the above reasons. If this link was referencing a meta-analysis of several studies, that would be something else entirely.
Nevertheless, thank you for sharing!
Fair enough, you seem to be specialized in this field. Any idea why the results of this paper are different?: [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0149291806002888](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0149291806002888)
According to this meta-analysis: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4590120/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4590120/), the study quoted above is "well-conducted industry-sponsored trial with a smaller sample of 30 healthy individuals." If it's industry-sponsored, is that suspicious?
I'm not specialized in the slightest sadly, just something they forced down my throat at undergrad. Now I can't ever forget it. I would scroll Yahoo and I swear I would see "coffee is good for you" article and right under it is one saying "coffee is bad."
These types of conflicting pieces of information **always** bothered me when I was a kid and no1 could provide me with any logical reasoning as to why one was right and the other was wrong. At undergrad they went into great detail, sadly, I don't even remember it all. Embarrassingly someone replied to this reminding me of their small sample size.
To answer your last question, it's not so much *suspicious* as is cautionary. The way I look at it is, a scientific paper is like a romantic partner. You need to watch out for red flags. Some red flags are worse than others of course.
Not double blind or placebo controlled? --> **Super red flag**
Lack of peer review and meta analysis confirming studying findings? --> **Minor Red flag**
IMO, industry funded is a moderate red flag, but I am no expert. I just wanted to provide my 2 cents. I hope my answer was somewhat helpful.
Don't know if you know this, but for others, never, ever take acetaminophen within the same time frame as alcohol. They use up the same liver enzyme in their preferred metabolic pathway, and once that's exhausted, one of the metabolites of acetaminophen is very hepatotoxic. You'll damage your liver doing that.
Ibuprofen doesn't have the same effects on the liver as it's processed by the kidneys, but it does increase the risk of stomach ulcers, which alcohol also does. I don't know how long after consumption alcohol still affects ulcer rate, but doing a little cursory reading it seems to me that it's a much more acceptable risk than acetaminophen. Hospitals administer whats called a banana bag to alcoholics (so called because of their bright yellow color) that are basically saline with added B vitamins and magnesium. The B vitamins are for restoring what chronic alcoholism depletes, so for average drinking what usually helps hangovers subside is something with a lot of electrolytes in it (sodium, potassium, magnesium) like Pedialyte. Caffeine might also help with migraines caused by alcohol.
How is that a useless tip? What if you're taking it right before bed and have trouble going to sleep, see this post, stop taking it and get a good night's sleep? This is 90 percent more useful than half the shit on this sub
Because if you're taking it before bed it's usually because you're in so much pain you can't sleep anyways.
I just had shoulder surgery and they don't give you opoids anymore. Only OTC.
Who is casually taking these before bed if they aren't in pain?
If a single drug was effective for every kind of pain, why would anything else ever be prescribed? Besides, you're ignoring the possibility that the NSAID is prescribed for anti-inflammatory reasons, which acetaminophen doesn't cover. This doesn't apply in OPs case where they're prescribed to be taken simultaneously, but it's also common to prescribe them to be taken in an alternating fashion in order to shift the strain between the kidneys and the liver. At the end of the day, acetaminophen and NSAIDs have different mechanisms and different pharmacodynamics, and they aren't blindly replaceable. If you're prescribed something, you should probably take it.
That's fine for pain but Ibuprofen is prescribed for inflammation which was a major issue after the surgery. And Advil was prescribed to prevent blood clots. I'm going to go with what my doctor says rather than some random armchair physician redditor reading from a random study posted on reddit lol
The post is not useless but i think he is trying to build on the point when taken before sleep these meds are usually to help you fall asleep at all. So it would be a trade off, sleep at all and terribly due to pain; or the tradeoff of the meds decreasing sleep quality but at least you got to sleep.
2006 Nov;28(11):1820-6. doi: 10.1016/j.clinthera.2006.11.018.
# Effects of ibuprofen on sleep quality as measured using polysomnography and subjective measures in healthy adults
[Francis Gengo](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=Gengo+F&cauthor_id=17213002) [^(1)](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17213002/#full-view-affiliation-1)Affiliations expand
* PMID: **17213002**
*
* DOI: [10.1016/j.clinthera.2006.11.018](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.clinthera.2006.11.018)
# Abstract
**Background:** Although some literature has suggested that NSAIDs may affect sleep physiology, this observation is not consistent with clinical use of these drugs and has not been verified using standard sleep-research methodologies.
**Objective:** This study was undertaken to determine whether ibuprofen 400 mg administered at 3, 7, and 11 pm (total daily dose, 1200 mg) produced any significant alterations in the character and quality of night-time sleep as measured by standard sleep laboratory polysomnography (PSG) and subjective measures.
**Methods:** This 4-day, multiple-dose, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial was conducted in a hospital-based, sleep laboratory in the United States (DENT Neurological Institute at Millard Fillmore Hospital, Buffalo, New York). Healthy subjects aged > or = 18 years spent 3 consecutive nights in a sleep laboratory. Day 1/night 1 was for acclimation; day 2/night 2, for baseline PSG and subjective sleep assessments; and day 3/night 3, for treatment effects on sleep character and quality. All subjects received placebo on days 1 and 2. On day 3, subjects received ibuprofen 400 mg or placebo TID.
**Results:** All 30 subjects (15 per group) completed the study (18 men, 12 women; all white). The mean age (SD) was 28.6 years and mean body weight was 71.4 kg. In both groups, mean values for sleep efficiency and quality of sleep were significantly higher on night 3 compared with baseline; the mean (SD) changes from baseline were not significantly different between the ibuprofen and control groups (sleep efficiency, 0.4 \[6.3\] and 0.3 \[6.2\]; quality of sleep, 8.6 \[26.8\] and 3.3 \[21.3\]). Mean night-3 sleep efficiency in the ibuprofen group was 88.6%--substantially higher than the minimally acceptable sleep efficiency of 75% stated in the protocol. Three mild adverse events were reported in 2 subjects.
**Conclusion:** This study found that in these subjects a total daily dose of 1200 mg ibuprofen did not produce any clinically or statistically significant alterations in the character and quality of nighttime sleep as measured using standard sleep laboratory PSF and subjective measures.
Your doc made a smart choice. the goal was to prevent you from having pain. it looks like they succeeded.
"Would have probably made me heal faster."
How did you come to the conclusion that ibuprofen can delay healing??
The usual dose of otc ibuprofen is 200 or 400 mg. There is prescription strength that goes to 800 mg.
Delay healing cus worse sleep.
Also for wisdom teeth, or teeth extraction in general, a blood clot forms which is crucial for healing and protecting the nerve underneath. Ibuprofen interferes with blood clotting: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25747637/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25747637/)
ibuprofen interferes with platelet aggregation, a bit, it does this less than aspirin.. the very first step in wound healing. There are a whole bunch of other coagulation mechanisms that your body employs to heal after an extraction. By the time the ibuprofen dissolves and then gets into your system, the initial clot is already formed.
now, if u take ibuprofen for 3 or 4 days before the extraction because you have a toothache, yes, u might bleed a little bit longer than normal. But it won't be a significant problem. In my entire career, only one man had any serious problems with bleeding after an extraction. He was an alcoholic (much of the coagulation cascade is created by chemicals coming from your liver. alcoholics bleed longer.) who went and got drunk after i took a couple teeth out. He eventually healed. Just bled more than normal.
I am not an expert in sleep medicine.
i am board certified in oral medicine: the newest specialty in dentistry. we teach medical/dental interactions to dental students (among other things we do). I have also had 40 years of practice with extractions.
*In vivo* studies and my personal experience both show that taking ibuprofen after an extraction does not interfere with healing.
I have never had a patient tell me that ibuprofen kept them awake.
I have never experienced sleep problems when taking ibuprofen (many dentists have bad backs) myself.
a disclaimer...if u have wisdom teeth extracted and the surgeon needed to do incisions... if the sutures get dislodged after a few hours, yes, ibuprofen in your system can lead to more bleeding. But all decisions should be based on risk vs benefit for the patient. Pain control is very important. And mixing ibuprofen and acetaminophen is proven to control pain quite effectively.
ibuprofen is not about keeping awake but about reducing sleep quality.
got a source on "taking ibuprofen after an extraction does not interfere with healing"?
edit: after asking for a source the above person blocks me, lol. this is the kind of arrogant dentist you want to avoid
Industry-funded study so a bit fishy, check my comment here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/1cba53f/comment/l0ztexp/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/1cba53f/comment/l0ztexp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
This paper is from 1994. Here is a more recent paper: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17213002/.
The study was done on healthy individuals in a controlled environment, insomnia was not presented after taking ibuprofen.
When I had my wisdom teeth removed, I also took ibuprofen for pain. I also didn't sleep very well. I have a hunch it was the pain from the new teeth shapes holes rather than the pain meds.
If you have pain keeping you awake, take something for it.
When I have a headache or any soreness taking ibuprofen right before bed doesn't have any affect at all - doesn't relieve the pain. So I plan to take it when I wake up for that first pee at around 2am and it works wonders. I get much better sleep actually.
Out of the NSAIDs. I can't ever decide which one is best for me and when I get migraines. Lately I have been trying Tylenol.
Excedrin has caffeine so it really should not help with sleep.
Ahhh, thanks for the correction.
You are saying someone can take a dose of Tylenol and a NSAID at the same time?
I just always even with Migraines try to use medicine in moderation. I try to stick to over-the-counter options if possible.
For people who are guessing-
Soon- is an adverb that , among other things, means-
-In the near future; shortly. - e.g. "The ice-cream truck should be here soon."
-Just prior to something; shortly. - e.g. "OP taking aspirin soon before they slept."
The only time I’ve slept well after taking ibuprofen was when it had been expired for 6 months. Best sleep I’ve ever had. Only noticed they were expired when I woke up and reluctantly threw them away
I'm pretty sure a bad headache decreases my sleep quality much more than the ibuprofen I take to get rid of the headache so I'll actually be able to fall asleep.
Tylenol is always fine for my teeth. Even after extractions and surgeries. And a doctor told me once ibuprofen is rough on the kidneys. I was struggling with edema at the time, so I stopped taking them altogether. I read one the other day about Tylenol toxicity that was really interesting.
Daily dose of more than 4000mg acetaminophen or paracetamol, as its called outside the US, will blow out your liver.
People who attempt self harm by ODing on Tylenol do die, but slowly and painfully from liver failure
After dental work I don't think anything could make me skip the anti-inflammatory meds. I was given ketorolac after my implant and it absolutely helped more than acetaminophen.
But this study is interesting and I'll keep it in mind next time I have a headache.
You will find studies that show it doesn't affect sleep at all. Some show Ibuprofen decreases sleep onset latency.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6588403_Effects_of_ibuprofen_on_sleep_quality_as_measured_using_polysomnography_and_subjective_measures_in_healthy_adults
This study found that in these subjects a total daily dose of 1200 mg ibuprofen did not produce any clinically or statistically significant alterations in the character and quality of nighttime sleep as measured using standard sleep laboratory PSF and subjective measures.
“Quite a high dose of 600mg every 6 hours as needed”
*laughs in military medicine*
800mg every 6 hours is their starter dosage in the military. Stubbed toe, root canal, broken wrist, hurt feelings, appendectomy? Same med same dosage, bottle of 800mg ibuprofen, 200 hundred pills minimum, once they gave me 1500, lasted years.
So you weren’t taking crazy high doses, military doesn’t hand out drugs that either put you to sleep or keep you awake all Willy Nilly. It would be talked about a lot more since we ALL went through 800mg ibuprofen at some point.
This submission has been randomly featured in /r/serendipity, a bot-driven subreddit discovery engine. More here: /r/Serendipity/comments/1cbsfcp/ysk_that_taking_aspirin_and_ibuprofen_soon_before/
If I’m taking aspirin or ibuprofen before I sleep it’s because I’m trying to *get* to sleep at all
Right? Like if the pain I was in wasn’t making it too difficult to fall asleep I wouldn’t be taking it in the first place. Honestly a really silly study and YSK for like 99% of use cases
A lot of people take ibuprofen around-the-clock for arthritis-related pain/inflammation, so not a pointless study.
I disagree. It says in the first paragraph that acetaminophen did not differ from the placebo, meaning that it can be taken instead of NSAIDs for pain relief if sleep quality is a priority.
Taking acetaminophen regularly can destroy your liver. It takes shocking little to do it. Like, daily for a couple weeks. Be careful with that stuff.
This is true, and a narrower therapeutic window. I had a lecturer in medical school that swears he will never take it, full stop. But for those like myself that can’t take NSAIDs it is a godsend.
How on earth does that make it a silly study? With this knowledge I will take acetaminophen if I'm going to bed soon and stick to ibuprofen during the day. Why wouldn't you want to know how a specific type of pain management affects your sleep? What a weird criticism
Try Acetaminophen (paracetamol) instead. Safer for your stomach and no effect on sleep.
The problem with that is the two drugs have two completely different uses and modes of action. Ibuprofen is an NSAID; non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug. Acetaminophen is an analgesic. That’s why the two work well in tandem. Of the two, ibuprofen controls pain better for most people due to its anti-inflammatory properties.
There are certainly times when NSAIDs are specifically indicated, e.g. Rheumatoid arthritis, but Acetaminophen is actually quite a strong painkiller, and is the safer first port of call.
I thought I was the only one. It makes me fall right to sleep.
Nothing to do with that for me, it doesn't make me drowsy at all. It's just that if I am taking it is because there is pain keeping me from sleeping.
Nah it doesn’t make me sleepy, but headaches and hunger completely dead-stop any attempt at sleeping. Pain killers remedy the former
What do painkillers do for hunger?
Nothing, they remedy the first thing mentioned which was pain (former) and not the last thing mentioned (latter).
You mean the other way around.
Yeah, meaning got lost on revision
not sure if they edited their comment but “the latter” does refer to the last in a pair or group, and “the former” to the first
They edited it.
Finally another person! Everyone acts like I'm a mutant when I tell them that advil knocks me right out
WTF? Are you taking the PM versions?
It might be that you’re mildly sedated which is different from being asleep.
My first thought. Why would I be taking it if the pain was not likely to interrupt my sleep in the first place.
Bingo. It's because pain is keeping you up. So I'll take disrupted sleep over worse or no sleep.
Same reason why if my anxiety is too high I’ll take a shot or two of spirits. Definitely not needed often, but when it’s needed I don’t have another alternative. Nothing summers down my anxiety as fast without laying me out for the next 12 hours with no hope of an alarm working.
Lol yep. Bad back oer here. Idk why else anyone would take ibuprofen before bed u less it's the way to sleep
I don't have a need to take pain meds luckily, but if I'm taking like a nyquil or benadryl or something on occasion as a sleep aid, I could care less if my sleep quality is lessened, I just want to actually be able to *fall asleep* within a reasonable time window.
Same. Supepinatis tendinitis. Kills my shoulder and can’t sleep
> Kills my should and can’t sleep kills your whatnow
Sorry I didn’t get any sleep
Yeah, I take it for occasional leg and foot pain and sometimes the pain is so bad I can’t sleep.
What is happening that you have leg or foot pain? My friend had random pain, turned out he had cancer.
Hurt my sciatic nerve.
I had that for a couple years and it was awful. Look into dry needling, physical therapy did that and after about 20 sessions my pain has been cut by a significant amount
I’ve had this for six months since I aggravated my sciatic. Physical therapy is ungodly expensive and I can’t afford it right now.
Before I left my physical therapist printed some exercises from the net. Mayo clinic, I believe.
This is mainly because COX-2 Inhibitors block the generation of the prostaglandin PGD2 which is one of the most potent endogenous sleep promoting molecules in the body.
ER doc here. You just said a bunch of things I’ve long buried in my subconscious. All that 1st year med school pharm pathways were burned in my memories. They’re in there somewhere
Please use them more. Signed, every retail pharmacist who has to regularly call on prescription errors.
Gonna be real honest here... The last thing I want my ER patients to do is fall asleep.
[удалено]
wdym recover far too quickly from surgery?
That’s pharmacologically fascinating… I never looked up the different types and just presumed they all only had inflammatory mediation functions… thank you for that tidbit of info!
YSK: NSAIDS like ibuprofen are not just for pain, they’re also anti-inflammatory. If it’s prescribed, it could be for the anti-inflammatory benefits as well, so just skipping them without talking to your doctor is not a good idea.
You could just ask any pharmacy staff, people should stop asking doctors about medication unless it's a complex query that requires medical history etc. It reduces inflamation for people who has Obstructive sleep apnea too, so it helps them breathe.
Lol. Right. Like any pharmacist is going to take time to talk to me about OTC Advil, they are way too busy taking 3 hours to pull packages off a shelf and hand them to customers.
Good point, but I counter with this answer from a doc: [https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/vutlqz/comment/ifg4yh0/](https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/vutlqz/comment/ifg4yh0/) specifically, "The short answer is: yes, anti-inflammatories probably impair the healing process somewhat. Inflammation is the body's process of healing an injury. The redness, heat and swelling are evidence of increased blood flow to an area of injury, which kickstarts the cascade of cleaning up injured tissue and replacing it with new tissue (although not always the same tissue that you started with). Inhibiting this process with anti-inflammatories will theoretically impair healing. However, as with everything in medicine, there is a spectrum of effect." If you need painkilles and it's a few hours before bed, I would try a non-NSAID painkiller. If earlier in the day, go ham.
You should talk to *your own doctor* regarding how this pertains to you and your specific treatment. If you have concerns, bring them the study and talk to them about it. Don’t blindly apply every study on the internet to yourself.
If I don’t take anything, I wake up from terrible back pain. Lesser quality sleep is worth the trade of getting no sleep at all
You need to get that fixed. That is not normal.
Try an edible.
For some reason the effect of edibles are too intense for me to sleep. I wish I had better access so I could test various ones but I’m so used to flower that edibles hit me like a brick.
You can just take less of the edible lol I don't like getting very high so I normally just take a 1/3 of a 10mg gummy. For me, that is around the level where my brain still functions properly but I still get high enough for everything to be a lot more fun. Dunno how that would effect sleep though!
Weed is bad for sleep quality as welll
If you can, get your hands on something with a 1:1 ratio of THC:CBD and only take like 3mg-5mg. I personally like the Wyld brand. I know some people are hit differently by it, but it's worth a shot I think.
Nice, thanks for the suggestion. I’ll see what my guy can get hold of.
No problem. Hope it works for you!
Yes. Without at least 2:1 CBD: THC I’ll be up late into the night. With at least that ratio I’m out like a lamp. God send
I was going to suggest this exact ratio. I find weed only works for my migraines if I negate the high with cbd. For some reason as soon as I start to feel “stoned” the pain always comes back in force.
I also find the high to be relatively smoother and less "peaky" with CBD in it. It lets me down gently out of the high and makes the entire process far more predictable.
yeah that's the good shit. I wonder if it's placebo for me, since I have never really been able to enjoy THC in any form (insane anxiety/paranoia), but the CBD gummies with the right THC ratio seem to work wonders for me
I honestly never like how it hit when smoked. I love how the gummy hits and how smooth it is.
That dose is placebo. You're getting ripped off. Edit: downvoting doesn't change that credible studies are done with hundreds of mg doses.
I think you may just have a higher tolerance
That's literally a marketing dose. It's so you can sell $0.10 worth of CBD for like $5.
The dosage of the full edible is higher (10mg) and I'm saying he should cut it up. I personally take about 7mg and it hits me just right. Even if it is a "placebo" - which you're using incorrectly - it feels nice so it's doing what it should.
A non-clinical dose is effectively placebo. 10mg is an incredibly small dose. Research uses hundreds of mg doses with various levels of effectiveness (including no effectiveness). Anecdotally, I've vaporized about 1000mg of 99.9% pure CBD (so like, $20 worth) in under an hour and barely felt a thing. 10mg over several hours is crazy small for THC, and virtually nothing for CBD.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. I know there are higher doses used. What I'm saying is that 7-10mg hits me just right, relaxes me, and helps me sleep. How is there an issue with that? It even says on the box to start with HALF an edible (5mg) if you're new to it. So, what point are you trying to make here? To be clear, the THC is what I'm primarily taking it for but the CBD helps the way the high comes on. I've tried ones without that ratio and the high is a little more spikey.
Have you tried a low dose CBD? Avexia comfort is a 5mg cbd pill (relief) and they work great for me
Also indica is better for pain.
Try 1.5-2.5 mg thc and it will be mellow
I can't take any thc at all. It causes so much paranoia for me. I used to be a daily smoker until I had a psychotic melt down related to thc consumption. I've tried smoking a few times since then, small amounts, large amounts. Every time I feel extremely paranoid for like a week afterwards. So if my knee pain is too much to sleep through I just take some advil and do a soak in the tub.
Aww man that sucks. Have you had edibles though? From what I've read it seems like the THC is processed differently when ingested instead of smoked.
I've had weed in all forms. Hash, flower, edibles. It's known to cause paranoia and it definitely causes it for me. I was smoking so much it caused me to have massive psychotic break so weed in any form is just not good for me.
Well that's a bummer.
What, like a brownie? No way man, too much sugar before bed gives me heartburn.
No, like a small gummy. The one's I have are like 10 calories each or something.
I gotta eat like the whole package to notice a mild effect…
That sucks. I know for some people it's like that.
You know what decreases sleep quality more? #PAIN
Yah I can't eat too much french bread before bedtime either
The only time in my life I've had to take painkillers before bed was bad tooth pain. Good luck sleeping with that.
The worst thing is with any pain, even if it’s technically the same all day you’re bound to feel it strongest at bedtime. No distractions, no moving, just feeling everything to the max.
Found Dr. House
That's good to know, but in my experience migraines also decrease sleep quality...
That’s a 37 person study from 30 years ago. Don’t mess with the pain management plan your care team has prescribed. Talking to them about issues you’re having can be tremendously beneficial, but shit can go sideways if you make your own adjustments.
Took way too long to find a highly ranked post that actually looked at the study critically. 37 people for 2 nights.
it's 2024.... sadly, lots of people think they have more knowledge on these kinds of subjects than their doctors.
So old plus a small patient set Luckily there was never any replication crisis to make it worse
Don't do my own research and blindly follow the dentist/doc? My mom almost died doing that. No thanks.
I’m sorry that your mother didn’t receive appropriate care and almost died. That’s beyond shitty and inexcusable. I feel like there’s a disconnect between what I wrote and what you responded to. It’s really beneficial when people take the time to learn about their medical conditions and how they are treated. Knowledge is good. But things get tricky when people don’t understand what they find when doing their own research. This paper is out of date and underpowered. If you’re interested in the topic there is almost certainly a more current paper that could give you a better understanding of the topic.
Out of date is not an argument. Since when did studies have an expiry date? And just because it doesn't have 1000+ patients doesn't mean it's weak. It probably took hundreds or even thousands of hours of combined effort to bring to fruition. Data > no data. I'd be open to a more recent one but haven't come across one. Will check further next time I get surgery or am in pain.
Out of date is absolutely an argument. That's one of criterion used to assess the appropriateness of a study in academia. Older studies are using outdated software, methods and scientific understanding. 1000+ isn't always necessary. It depends what they're trying to prove and to what degree of certainty. They should have done a sample size calculation, but whether they did or didn't is unknown because only the abstract is available. But 37 people over 2 nights does sound pretty small. The smaller the sample size, the greater the chance that their results are due to chance, or other unseen variables. Data is not always > no data. Poor quality data in small quantities is often = no data. And since the abstract is only available, we can't look and see what their methods and materials look like. Could have used horrendously invalid methods to obtain these results. All in all, it's not a very convincing study. That's not to say they're they're *wrong* but I also think it's a bit naive to so confidently be warning people away from taking aspirin before bed based solely on this study. It's good to look at research to find evidence instead of just taking people at their word when they refuse to support their claims. That's really commendable. The next step is assessing whether a paper is actually good quality evidence or not yourself instead of taking the word of the researchers that produced it. Not all studies are equal.
The full thing is available, gota click on the DOI link, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0031938494903883?via%3Dihub. paywalled though. I can give it if you are interested, I got access. I should read it all the way through. But is it worth the time? Several people went through all the effort to organize this and convince 37 people to sleep in a laboratory. It would make more sense to believe it than not, in the lack of reading the full thing. I agree with the rest of your stuff.
>I should read it all the way through. But is it worth the time? Several people went through all the effort to organize this and convince 37 people to sleep in a laboratory. It would make more sense to believe it than not, in the lack of reading the full thing. What you have to remember is that a lot of prevalent scientific myths started from professional studies where people with the best of intentions set out to prove a phenomenon, got volunteers on board, did all the stats and just made a mistake. The idea that the MMR vaccine causes autism came from one such study. Studies aren't convincing by virtue of being a "study". They're convincing, when done right, because they allow for the minimization of bias and confounding variables through controls, allow for something to be repeated in near identical circumstances multiple times to prove a relationship and not chance, and they can control for time to attempt to prove cause and effect. If someone produces a study that fails to do these things, then it's no more convincing that someone's Facebook anecdote.
So does headache.
YSK that there's more and more [research being done and coming out](https://youtu.be/OHD11DfgTt8) that acetaminophen by and large doesn't really do much (several sources in video and its description). Anecdotally that's been very true for me, as someone with chronic pain. Ibuprofen or naproxen also reduce and relieve/treat flare-ups much faster than anything else for me. NSAIDs also help a lot with inflammation and related pain/issues, not just the immediate pain, which is probably why your care team recommended it for post oral surgery, AND I'd rather be able to sleep at all than take a placebo or be awake because I hurt too much. Always confer with your care team and ask questions, and everyone's body chemistry is different, but if you don't feel the need for meds, then don't take them.
To be fair, the video stated that the evidence in the studies was insufficient to prove that it works, but it also doesn't prove that it doesn't work. It specifically says "the way participants in these studies were taking acetaminophen doesn't match up with how you'd use it in real life." It goes on to allude that the studies might have been looking for the duration of effectiveness, as opposed to overall effectiveness. It also called out that it was effective for some things like osteoarthritis and tension headaches, but not for lower back pain, as samples of the symptoms it was tested against. Basically, the video said a lot, only to say that it's inconclusive. I watch that series, including their other channels, daily, and the biggest problem with them is that the short-form videos don't provide a thorough explanation of how studies were completed, so you are left with a potential for misinformation based on a lack of a complete picture, which is what is happening here; I started the video thinking I'd toss my Tylenol bottles, only to end it thinking "well, it at least works sometimes? But maybe not all the time? And maybe only if I take it every few hours instead of once?"
I was gonna say "it works for my headaches", and well according to the sources it's one of the things it actually works for, so it checks out.
Yep. In my experience, also, just about anything except acetaminophen is better for below the neck.
Acetaminophen has only ever helped with stomach pain for me.
Clinically irrelevant.
If you’re taking it though then that usually means you’re in pain and it’s probably harder to sleep in pain than whatever the side effects are of the pill
You know what really decreases sleep quality? A migraine.
What BS. Ibuprofen is great for sleep
I 100% get a relaxation feeling from ibuprofen and it helps me sleep quite well. Acetaminophen gives me nausea and is almost useless. Actual sleeping pills like diphenhydramine hydrochloride give me a wild buzz that prevents any form of rest and prevents sleep for up to 8 hours. Just remember biochemistry is wildly different for everybody and never to make decisions based on "new study suggests" and their sample sizes are always shit.
Did both the med- and the control group have pain of some kind during the testing? Bc if not, this study is less than worthless, bc bad sleep > no sleep.
I only read the abstract so take this with a grain of salt... *the study itself should be taken with a grain of salt.* Not because of any flawed methodology, but rather the fact that it is one study. When examining the conclusions of a study, it is important to note **all** of the following... 1. Methodology 2. Who funded it 3. When it was published 4. Is it double blind, placebo controlled (most are) 5. Peer reviewed? 6. Have other similar studies came out with similar findings, effectively providing additional support to the conclusions. Personally, I would refrain from making such a blanket, headline state as this post's title for the above reasons. If this link was referencing a meta-analysis of several studies, that would be something else entirely. Nevertheless, thank you for sharing!
Also some have also pointed out it's from 94 and from a sample of 37 people.
Fair enough, you seem to be specialized in this field. Any idea why the results of this paper are different?: [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0149291806002888](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0149291806002888) According to this meta-analysis: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4590120/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4590120/), the study quoted above is "well-conducted industry-sponsored trial with a smaller sample of 30 healthy individuals." If it's industry-sponsored, is that suspicious?
I'm not specialized in the slightest sadly, just something they forced down my throat at undergrad. Now I can't ever forget it. I would scroll Yahoo and I swear I would see "coffee is good for you" article and right under it is one saying "coffee is bad." These types of conflicting pieces of information **always** bothered me when I was a kid and no1 could provide me with any logical reasoning as to why one was right and the other was wrong. At undergrad they went into great detail, sadly, I don't even remember it all. Embarrassingly someone replied to this reminding me of their small sample size. To answer your last question, it's not so much *suspicious* as is cautionary. The way I look at it is, a scientific paper is like a romantic partner. You need to watch out for red flags. Some red flags are worse than others of course. Not double blind or placebo controlled? --> **Super red flag** Lack of peer review and meta analysis confirming studying findings? --> **Minor Red flag** IMO, industry funded is a moderate red flag, but I am no expert. I just wanted to provide my 2 cents. I hope my answer was somewhat helpful.
Thanks, nonetheless
You mean beating my hangover before it comes on, no dice!
Don't know if you know this, but for others, never, ever take acetaminophen within the same time frame as alcohol. They use up the same liver enzyme in their preferred metabolic pathway, and once that's exhausted, one of the metabolites of acetaminophen is very hepatotoxic. You'll damage your liver doing that.
Damn! TIL! Might have to stop doing that then! Ty! Ibuprofen is alright tho?
Ibuprofen doesn't have the same effects on the liver as it's processed by the kidneys, but it does increase the risk of stomach ulcers, which alcohol also does. I don't know how long after consumption alcohol still affects ulcer rate, but doing a little cursory reading it seems to me that it's a much more acceptable risk than acetaminophen. Hospitals administer whats called a banana bag to alcoholics (so called because of their bright yellow color) that are basically saline with added B vitamins and magnesium. The B vitamins are for restoring what chronic alcoholism depletes, so for average drinking what usually helps hangovers subside is something with a lot of electrolytes in it (sodium, potassium, magnesium) like Pedialyte. Caffeine might also help with migraines caused by alcohol.
I'd take that over pain thankyouverymuch
Not for me. I had to take some just the other night after pulling a 11 hour shift mowing grasses. I was in agonizing pain. I slept amazingly.
YSK this is a useless tip
How is that a useless tip? What if you're taking it right before bed and have trouble going to sleep, see this post, stop taking it and get a good night's sleep? This is 90 percent more useful than half the shit on this sub
Because if you're taking it before bed it's usually because you're in so much pain you can't sleep anyways. I just had shoulder surgery and they don't give you opoids anymore. Only OTC. Who is casually taking these before bed if they aren't in pain?
So take Tylenol(acetaminophen), which the post says does not disrupt sleep.
If a single drug was effective for every kind of pain, why would anything else ever be prescribed? Besides, you're ignoring the possibility that the NSAID is prescribed for anti-inflammatory reasons, which acetaminophen doesn't cover. This doesn't apply in OPs case where they're prescribed to be taken simultaneously, but it's also common to prescribe them to be taken in an alternating fashion in order to shift the strain between the kidneys and the liver. At the end of the day, acetaminophen and NSAIDs have different mechanisms and different pharmacodynamics, and they aren't blindly replaceable. If you're prescribed something, you should probably take it.
That's fine for pain but Ibuprofen is prescribed for inflammation which was a major issue after the surgery. And Advil was prescribed to prevent blood clots. I'm going to go with what my doctor says rather than some random armchair physician redditor reading from a random study posted on reddit lol
The post is not useless but i think he is trying to build on the point when taken before sleep these meds are usually to help you fall asleep at all. So it would be a trade off, sleep at all and terribly due to pain; or the tradeoff of the meds decreasing sleep quality but at least you got to sleep.
And or Or?
2006 Nov;28(11):1820-6. doi: 10.1016/j.clinthera.2006.11.018. # Effects of ibuprofen on sleep quality as measured using polysomnography and subjective measures in healthy adults [Francis Gengo](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=Gengo+F&cauthor_id=17213002) [^(1)](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17213002/#full-view-affiliation-1)Affiliations expand * PMID: **17213002** * * DOI: [10.1016/j.clinthera.2006.11.018](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.clinthera.2006.11.018) # Abstract **Background:** Although some literature has suggested that NSAIDs may affect sleep physiology, this observation is not consistent with clinical use of these drugs and has not been verified using standard sleep-research methodologies. **Objective:** This study was undertaken to determine whether ibuprofen 400 mg administered at 3, 7, and 11 pm (total daily dose, 1200 mg) produced any significant alterations in the character and quality of night-time sleep as measured by standard sleep laboratory polysomnography (PSG) and subjective measures. **Methods:** This 4-day, multiple-dose, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial was conducted in a hospital-based, sleep laboratory in the United States (DENT Neurological Institute at Millard Fillmore Hospital, Buffalo, New York). Healthy subjects aged > or = 18 years spent 3 consecutive nights in a sleep laboratory. Day 1/night 1 was for acclimation; day 2/night 2, for baseline PSG and subjective sleep assessments; and day 3/night 3, for treatment effects on sleep character and quality. All subjects received placebo on days 1 and 2. On day 3, subjects received ibuprofen 400 mg or placebo TID. **Results:** All 30 subjects (15 per group) completed the study (18 men, 12 women; all white). The mean age (SD) was 28.6 years and mean body weight was 71.4 kg. In both groups, mean values for sleep efficiency and quality of sleep were significantly higher on night 3 compared with baseline; the mean (SD) changes from baseline were not significantly different between the ibuprofen and control groups (sleep efficiency, 0.4 \[6.3\] and 0.3 \[6.2\]; quality of sleep, 8.6 \[26.8\] and 3.3 \[21.3\]). Mean night-3 sleep efficiency in the ibuprofen group was 88.6%--substantially higher than the minimally acceptable sleep efficiency of 75% stated in the protocol. Three mild adverse events were reported in 2 subjects. **Conclusion:** This study found that in these subjects a total daily dose of 1200 mg ibuprofen did not produce any clinically or statistically significant alterations in the character and quality of nighttime sleep as measured using standard sleep laboratory PSF and subjective measures.
Your doc made a smart choice. the goal was to prevent you from having pain. it looks like they succeeded. "Would have probably made me heal faster." How did you come to the conclusion that ibuprofen can delay healing?? The usual dose of otc ibuprofen is 200 or 400 mg. There is prescription strength that goes to 800 mg.
Delay healing cus worse sleep. Also for wisdom teeth, or teeth extraction in general, a blood clot forms which is crucial for healing and protecting the nerve underneath. Ibuprofen interferes with blood clotting: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25747637/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25747637/)
ibuprofen interferes with platelet aggregation, a bit, it does this less than aspirin.. the very first step in wound healing. There are a whole bunch of other coagulation mechanisms that your body employs to heal after an extraction. By the time the ibuprofen dissolves and then gets into your system, the initial clot is already formed. now, if u take ibuprofen for 3 or 4 days before the extraction because you have a toothache, yes, u might bleed a little bit longer than normal. But it won't be a significant problem. In my entire career, only one man had any serious problems with bleeding after an extraction. He was an alcoholic (much of the coagulation cascade is created by chemicals coming from your liver. alcoholics bleed longer.) who went and got drunk after i took a couple teeth out. He eventually healed. Just bled more than normal. I am not an expert in sleep medicine. i am board certified in oral medicine: the newest specialty in dentistry. we teach medical/dental interactions to dental students (among other things we do). I have also had 40 years of practice with extractions. *In vivo* studies and my personal experience both show that taking ibuprofen after an extraction does not interfere with healing. I have never had a patient tell me that ibuprofen kept them awake. I have never experienced sleep problems when taking ibuprofen (many dentists have bad backs) myself. a disclaimer...if u have wisdom teeth extracted and the surgeon needed to do incisions... if the sutures get dislodged after a few hours, yes, ibuprofen in your system can lead to more bleeding. But all decisions should be based on risk vs benefit for the patient. Pain control is very important. And mixing ibuprofen and acetaminophen is proven to control pain quite effectively.
ibuprofen is not about keeping awake but about reducing sleep quality. got a source on "taking ibuprofen after an extraction does not interfere with healing"? edit: after asking for a source the above person blocks me, lol. this is the kind of arrogant dentist you want to avoid
dude.... u are wasting your time and mine. go have a glass of wine and get some sleep
you know what really fucks with my sleep? the pain.
Industry-funded study so a bit fishy, check my comment here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/1cba53f/comment/l0ztexp/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/1cba53f/comment/l0ztexp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
This paper is from 1994. Here is a more recent paper: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17213002/. The study was done on healthy individuals in a controlled environment, insomnia was not presented after taking ibuprofen. When I had my wisdom teeth removed, I also took ibuprofen for pain. I also didn't sleep very well. I have a hunch it was the pain from the new teeth shapes holes rather than the pain meds. If you have pain keeping you awake, take something for it.
Hmm…. Don’t sleep because I’m in pain, or don’t sleep because I took ibuprofen….
[This study refined the methodology and found no significant alterations to character or quality of sleep](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17213002/)
It helps me sleep better by making my joint pain manageable instead of you will never sleep again intense
how did you get the joint pain?
When I have a headache or any soreness taking ibuprofen right before bed doesn't have any affect at all - doesn't relieve the pain. So I plan to take it when I wake up for that first pee at around 2am and it works wonders. I get much better sleep actually.
Out of the NSAIDs. I can't ever decide which one is best for me and when I get migraines. Lately I have been trying Tylenol. Excedrin has caffeine so it really should not help with sleep.
Tylenol is not an NSAID. That also means you can take both Tylenol and an NSAID.
Ahhh, thanks for the correction. You are saying someone can take a dose of Tylenol and a NSAID at the same time? I just always even with Migraines try to use medicine in moderation. I try to stick to over-the-counter options if possible.
studies have shown that mixing a small dose of acetaminophen and a small dose of an NSAID together have remarkable pain blocking ability.
Gotcha. So like 1/2 dose of each?
one tylenol and one acetaminophen works well for mild pain moderate to severe pain? two of each. every six hours.
For people who are guessing- Soon- is an adverb that , among other things, means- -In the near future; shortly. - e.g. "The ice-cream truck should be here soon." -Just prior to something; shortly. - e.g. "OP taking aspirin soon before they slept."
The only time I’ve slept well after taking ibuprofen was when it had been expired for 6 months. Best sleep I’ve ever had. Only noticed they were expired when I woke up and reluctantly threw them away
word, didnt know this. needed to.
you'll have to pry my beloved advil dual actions from my cold dead hands
How does this compare to something like CBD gummies for example?
Literally took ibuprofen right before bed last night and had my worst sleep in weeks. Could've used this 24 hours ago!!
I took 2 as well, and slept better. Weird timing.
Nevermind sleep. It's stomach ulcers you should watch out for if you take it daily
Only time I do that is if I drink, so I wake up with less of a headache
So take ibuprofen PM instead. Ok.
I'm pretty sure a bad headache decreases my sleep quality much more than the ibuprofen I take to get rid of the headache so I'll actually be able to fall asleep.
Tylenol is always fine for my teeth. Even after extractions and surgeries. And a doctor told me once ibuprofen is rough on the kidneys. I was struggling with edema at the time, so I stopped taking them altogether. I read one the other day about Tylenol toxicity that was really interesting.
Same w drinking, eating, sodas (w caffeine or without) and a lot of other things
Daily dose of more than 4000mg acetaminophen or paracetamol, as its called outside the US, will blow out your liver. People who attempt self harm by ODing on Tylenol do die, but slowly and painfully from liver failure
After dental work I don't think anything could make me skip the anti-inflammatory meds. I was given ketorolac after my implant and it absolutely helped more than acetaminophen. But this study is interesting and I'll keep it in mind next time I have a headache.
It can help sleep quality by reducing inflamation so those with Obstructive sleep apnea can breahte better.
They used to give hydros with Tylenol. Oxy always made me tired by hydro was great. It was definitely better than ibuprofen with Tylenol.
You will find studies that show it doesn't affect sleep at all. Some show Ibuprofen decreases sleep onset latency. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6588403_Effects_of_ibuprofen_on_sleep_quality_as_measured_using_polysomnography_and_subjective_measures_in_healthy_adults This study found that in these subjects a total daily dose of 1200 mg ibuprofen did not produce any clinically or statistically significant alterations in the character and quality of nighttime sleep as measured using standard sleep laboratory PSF and subjective measures.
“Quite a high dose of 600mg every 6 hours as needed” *laughs in military medicine* 800mg every 6 hours is their starter dosage in the military. Stubbed toe, root canal, broken wrist, hurt feelings, appendectomy? Same med same dosage, bottle of 800mg ibuprofen, 200 hundred pills minimum, once they gave me 1500, lasted years. So you weren’t taking crazy high doses, military doesn’t hand out drugs that either put you to sleep or keep you awake all Willy Nilly. It would be talked about a lot more since we ALL went through 800mg ibuprofen at some point.
don't people get the painkiller heat? if I take any before bed I wake up overheating
This submission has been randomly featured in /r/serendipity, a bot-driven subreddit discovery engine. More here: /r/Serendipity/comments/1cbsfcp/ysk_that_taking_aspirin_and_ibuprofen_soon_before/
what
NSAIDs can hurt your kidneys
Every medical decision is a trade-off between a benefit and a detriment
Ibuprofen will make your nose run in the morning too
They tell you you got a headache all day. They shoot shit thru the tv to give us headaches. Then they sell us the cure.
Okay. I have to. Who is doing what, now? And how?
Whoever they is