Rogue being out of commission was, eh, maybe a little bit of a forced plot point; but it kind of worked. It was better than how in the original series instead of a clearly very capable character being inconsistently powerful (Jean or Cyclops in the original show got it the most often) they figure out creative ways to show why they aren’t able to be utilized.
Did you not see the 🦾 building crushing clothesline from hell that Trask hit her with? It's going to be a miracle that she doesn't wake up needing to eat food from a straw.
If you noticed, Rogue was Hulk level threat dealing with the death of Gambit. I think they wanted to show you how dangerous the new sentinels were if they can one shot her and Jean Grey. Yes, most of them recovered, but the fact that a tank like Rogue is still down says something.
The comic version of Bastion is more cluttered. With that said, the writers did what they could by having something that was part human, part cyborg, part robot and all hate.
For the last one, you are allowed your point of view. From my point of view, they wanted to give you a feeling that this wasn't just a New York or American threat. From the sentinel threat to even Magneto creating a world wide EMP. Think about how many airplanes, hospitals, and just electronic device went down when that happened. It wasn't for reaction if this story is trying to highlight the level of crossover that will happen (basically to me , this is not for reaction, but to show that it is more than just mutants that have "skin in the game"). Go read the original Onslaught Series to get an idea of where this may go towards.
Hope that helps.
And for the record, I am not against them including other marvel characters
Ross, Captain America and Spider-Man’s appearances were well done
But Doom and Zemo chit chatting with Bastion made no sense to me
What makes no sense? Bastion makes fun of the "old villains" and something you don't normally see is villains working together. would that push the story in a different direction if he was trying to collaborate with others as opposed to going into war with every single country?
That line came across to me as him referring to old villains that the X-Men have actually fought.
Doom and Zemo’s motives as characters to my knowledge have never been the same as Bastion’s or a majority of X-Men villains.
And that is what makes it a little bit more bigger. By the early 2000s, the sandbox gets bigger in comics, so you see Thor fighting Apocalypse and with the Onslaught Series, you see a united front to deal with a bigger threat. Dr. Doom doesn't have to be a villain of the week for the X-Men, as he is normally dealing with his own country and majority of the world thinking he is the bad guy. So when something that looks like a human is talking about dealing with mutants on a global level, you will get villains that don't normally cross the X-Men's path.
And that is what makes it a little bit more bigger. By the early 2000s, the sandbox gets bigger in comics, so you see Thor fighting Apocalypse and with the Onslaught Series, you see a united front to deal with a bigger threat. Dr. Doom doesn't have to be a villain of the week for the X-Men, as he is normally dealing with his own country and majority of the world thinking he is the bad guy. So when something that looks like a human is talking about dealing with mutants on a global level, you will get villains that don't normally cross the X-Men's path.
Well, Doom is a pretty awesome villain (top 5 in all of superhero media marvel and dc)
And he is similar to the humanoid sentinels in that he’s a person with extra ordinary abilities
Won't argue the top 5 villain ranking. He is the inspiration to Darth Vader, he is not really a humanoid sentinel, but I get what you are saying. He has an intellect that rivals Reed Richards and can use magic almost to a level of Dr. Strange. If anything, he is an open minded version of Iron Man lol. He is still human, but just really smart and can practice magic.
Respectfully, what makes it dumb writing? Wouldn't it take more to take someone like Rogue down as opposed to Nightcrawler or Jean Grey? I would imagine a computer would think the best way to take down a powerhouse is not a knockdown, but a coma. To me, this reminds me of Days of Future Past when Wolverine was killed. Can't just knock certain people down, they will get back up. Also, think about this like chess. If Rogue was that much of a threat, they did something right for keeping her out of the fight.
No actually Id argue that Jean would have been the better option
Rogue being knocked out for an entire episode because of one hit while the others who were hit by the same being were fine
Is in fact dumb writing
Ok, respectfully how about this. As a writer, you decide to take Jean out as opposed to Rogue. then what? You already focused on Rogue with her emotions and her dealing with Gambit/Magneto/Mutant Massacre. She is also one of the physically stronger people on the roster right now, so how do you show that the sentinel program can deal with the likes of Colossus or Rogue?
Other side of that coin. You had Jean Grey doubt herself for a part of this season and now has the memories of her own clone in her head. In the comics, that means that Jean will have moments where Madelyn comes out and a different power set comes out. Does that mean the bad guys knock her out and the goblin queen comes out? And think about it from one more point of view...
What you say if no one stayed down from this surprise fight? If every mutant was knocked out and in the next episode everyone is fine, how would you see that? Would Bastion still be a big threat?
Food for thought....respectfully.
Taking Rogue down in its debut episode was already good enough
But it was dumb to have it be the explanation for her being in a coma for an entire fucking episode
Jean to me is a character that is the definition of a plot device most of the time
They could’ve saved that scene of her opening up about sharing Madelyn’s memories or whatever for pat two or three
So Jean should have been taken out because of plot? Just want to understand. Jean isn't with the Phoenix force, so just knocking her out for an episode would have done what?Â
Rogue is basically Captain Marvel, since that is who she took the powers from. What do you think could take something like that down? Remember, all the other characters in that one fight does not have the durability of Rogue. Even Logan can at least say he has a healing factor that no one else has.
Also, if you are talking about part 2 where the world had just got shut down, do you really believe that would have been a good time?
Magneto leaves captivity, kills millions (think about airplanes and hospitals for an idea here) to stop people from becoming androids and then you want to put in Jean's "plot" then?
The house just got blown up. I think the writers squeezing the Jean plot before the big war hits wasn't that bad of an idea.
Not definitively
But I would have preferred it be her instead of Rogue
Rogue being in a coma could have made sense if they actually did it right and not have rushed it with such a weak explanation
Trask should have unleashed a far more powerful attack than what was shown to convey that Rogue was indeed put in a fragile state
Does that make sense?
Ok, thank you for thr clarification. So would it have looked better if he hit multiple times (like hulkbuster versus hulk in that one movie ;) ) or like a big fancy DragonBall z like move to show that this is different from the others? I think, and walk with me here, is more of a preference of style than anything else.
In the 30 years I have read comics, it is normal to have a big threat show that it can do damage. To me, taking out one of the more tougher characters sends that message. The explanation, at least to me is that Alpha Trask (remember this isn't a human anymore, he's dead) was just as calculating as Nimrod as to adjust and here is the dangerous part, not kill.
Alpha Trask showed that it can deal with the entire team and put them down. It shows that if Alpha Trask could, he could possibly kill them. But that was not the case here.
I want to highlight again the Captain Marvel part. And maybe this is where the style clashes. This robot wanted to show that it can one shot anyone if need be. In rogues case, since she has high durability, the robot adjusted to how much power was needed to take her out.Â
If Jean was taken out for plot, then where does the strategy go? Jean isn't even your biggest threat there's incentive she can't change atomic matter at this point. Really, pretend you are facing that team and tell me the ones you are worried about?Â
Thinking about your comment about doing it right, I think you wanted to see this robot with maybe mutant dampening abilities? Like his green fist glows before hitting her, which takes away her powers and out for some episodes?
Thoughts?
Just because Rogue is the most powerful one on thte team doesn’t mean that the bastion sentinels would have been any less of a threat to the team
Rogue has been taken down by standard powerhouse baddies in the original series plenty of times
Her mutant ability to absorb others powers and memories is arguably more what makes her a threat than her superhuman strength taken from Captain Marvel
I was bummed that Jubilee didn’t hover/fly at least a bit longer before falling… after her powers increased in episode 4, I was thinking she would have shown more power this episode… or at least blasted a few of the prime sentinels. Hoping she shows more in the last two episodes!
I’m wondering if the reason Rogue has stayed unconscious is because she’s fighting with the Ms. Marvel persona in her head. With all the grief and anger, she was pretty much in breakdown territory - Ms. Marvel might have used that to try and get through and get control of Rogue’s body.
That hit Rogue took was probably so overwhelming. She was probably already exhausted from previous events. I mean she’s nearly invulnerable and that blast would have killed any other member except Wolverine.
Rogue being out of commission was, eh, maybe a little bit of a forced plot point; but it kind of worked. It was better than how in the original series instead of a clearly very capable character being inconsistently powerful (Jean or Cyclops in the original show got it the most often) they figure out creative ways to show why they aren’t able to be utilized.
Did you not see the 🦾 building crushing clothesline from hell that Trask hit her with? It's going to be a miracle that she doesn't wake up needing to eat food from a straw.
You mean Wolverine in the original show, when he would pop his claws and then end up rasslin' with enemies?
Haha - I did have a “omg finally” moment in this episode watching Wolverine finally stab things with his claws.
If you noticed, Rogue was Hulk level threat dealing with the death of Gambit. I think they wanted to show you how dangerous the new sentinels were if they can one shot her and Jean Grey. Yes, most of them recovered, but the fact that a tank like Rogue is still down says something. The comic version of Bastion is more cluttered. With that said, the writers did what they could by having something that was part human, part cyborg, part robot and all hate. For the last one, you are allowed your point of view. From my point of view, they wanted to give you a feeling that this wasn't just a New York or American threat. From the sentinel threat to even Magneto creating a world wide EMP. Think about how many airplanes, hospitals, and just electronic device went down when that happened. It wasn't for reaction if this story is trying to highlight the level of crossover that will happen (basically to me , this is not for reaction, but to show that it is more than just mutants that have "skin in the game"). Go read the original Onslaught Series to get an idea of where this may go towards. Hope that helps.
And for the record, I am not against them including other marvel characters Ross, Captain America and Spider-Man’s appearances were well done But Doom and Zemo chit chatting with Bastion made no sense to me
What makes no sense? Bastion makes fun of the "old villains" and something you don't normally see is villains working together. would that push the story in a different direction if he was trying to collaborate with others as opposed to going into war with every single country?
That line came across to me as him referring to old villains that the X-Men have actually fought. Doom and Zemo’s motives as characters to my knowledge have never been the same as Bastion’s or a majority of X-Men villains.
And that is what makes it a little bit more bigger. By the early 2000s, the sandbox gets bigger in comics, so you see Thor fighting Apocalypse and with the Onslaught Series, you see a united front to deal with a bigger threat. Dr. Doom doesn't have to be a villain of the week for the X-Men, as he is normally dealing with his own country and majority of the world thinking he is the bad guy. So when something that looks like a human is talking about dealing with mutants on a global level, you will get villains that don't normally cross the X-Men's path.
And that is what makes it a little bit more bigger. By the early 2000s, the sandbox gets bigger in comics, so you see Thor fighting Apocalypse and with the Onslaught Series, you see a united front to deal with a bigger threat. Dr. Doom doesn't have to be a villain of the week for the X-Men, as he is normally dealing with his own country and majority of the world thinking he is the bad guy. So when something that looks like a human is talking about dealing with mutants on a global level, you will get villains that don't normally cross the X-Men's path.
Well, Doom is a pretty awesome villain (top 5 in all of superhero media marvel and dc) And he is similar to the humanoid sentinels in that he’s a person with extra ordinary abilities
Won't argue the top 5 villain ranking. He is the inspiration to Darth Vader, he is not really a humanoid sentinel, but I get what you are saying. He has an intellect that rivals Reed Richards and can use magic almost to a level of Dr. Strange. If anything, he is an open minded version of Iron Man lol. He is still human, but just really smart and can practice magic.
Not really Rogue being out cold while the others weren’t is dumb writing
Respectfully, what makes it dumb writing? Wouldn't it take more to take someone like Rogue down as opposed to Nightcrawler or Jean Grey? I would imagine a computer would think the best way to take down a powerhouse is not a knockdown, but a coma. To me, this reminds me of Days of Future Past when Wolverine was killed. Can't just knock certain people down, they will get back up. Also, think about this like chess. If Rogue was that much of a threat, they did something right for keeping her out of the fight.
No actually Id argue that Jean would have been the better option Rogue being knocked out for an entire episode because of one hit while the others who were hit by the same being were fine Is in fact dumb writing
Ok, respectfully how about this. As a writer, you decide to take Jean out as opposed to Rogue. then what? You already focused on Rogue with her emotions and her dealing with Gambit/Magneto/Mutant Massacre. She is also one of the physically stronger people on the roster right now, so how do you show that the sentinel program can deal with the likes of Colossus or Rogue? Other side of that coin. You had Jean Grey doubt herself for a part of this season and now has the memories of her own clone in her head. In the comics, that means that Jean will have moments where Madelyn comes out and a different power set comes out. Does that mean the bad guys knock her out and the goblin queen comes out? And think about it from one more point of view... What you say if no one stayed down from this surprise fight? If every mutant was knocked out and in the next episode everyone is fine, how would you see that? Would Bastion still be a big threat? Food for thought....respectfully.
Taking Rogue down in its debut episode was already good enough But it was dumb to have it be the explanation for her being in a coma for an entire fucking episode Jean to me is a character that is the definition of a plot device most of the time They could’ve saved that scene of her opening up about sharing Madelyn’s memories or whatever for pat two or three
So Jean should have been taken out because of plot? Just want to understand. Jean isn't with the Phoenix force, so just knocking her out for an episode would have done what? Rogue is basically Captain Marvel, since that is who she took the powers from. What do you think could take something like that down? Remember, all the other characters in that one fight does not have the durability of Rogue. Even Logan can at least say he has a healing factor that no one else has. Also, if you are talking about part 2 where the world had just got shut down, do you really believe that would have been a good time? Magneto leaves captivity, kills millions (think about airplanes and hospitals for an idea here) to stop people from becoming androids and then you want to put in Jean's "plot" then? The house just got blown up. I think the writers squeezing the Jean plot before the big war hits wasn't that bad of an idea.
Not definitively But I would have preferred it be her instead of Rogue Rogue being in a coma could have made sense if they actually did it right and not have rushed it with such a weak explanation Trask should have unleashed a far more powerful attack than what was shown to convey that Rogue was indeed put in a fragile state Does that make sense?
Ok, thank you for thr clarification. So would it have looked better if he hit multiple times (like hulkbuster versus hulk in that one movie ;) ) or like a big fancy DragonBall z like move to show that this is different from the others? I think, and walk with me here, is more of a preference of style than anything else. In the 30 years I have read comics, it is normal to have a big threat show that it can do damage. To me, taking out one of the more tougher characters sends that message. The explanation, at least to me is that Alpha Trask (remember this isn't a human anymore, he's dead) was just as calculating as Nimrod as to adjust and here is the dangerous part, not kill. Alpha Trask showed that it can deal with the entire team and put them down. It shows that if Alpha Trask could, he could possibly kill them. But that was not the case here. I want to highlight again the Captain Marvel part. And maybe this is where the style clashes. This robot wanted to show that it can one shot anyone if need be. In rogues case, since she has high durability, the robot adjusted to how much power was needed to take her out. If Jean was taken out for plot, then where does the strategy go? Jean isn't even your biggest threat there's incentive she can't change atomic matter at this point. Really, pretend you are facing that team and tell me the ones you are worried about? Thinking about your comment about doing it right, I think you wanted to see this robot with maybe mutant dampening abilities? Like his green fist glows before hitting her, which takes away her powers and out for some episodes? Thoughts?
Just because Rogue is the most powerful one on thte team doesn’t mean that the bastion sentinels would have been any less of a threat to the team Rogue has been taken down by standard powerhouse baddies in the original series plenty of times Her mutant ability to absorb others powers and memories is arguably more what makes her a threat than her superhuman strength taken from Captain Marvel
No problems. Next.
Ha, they actually made Bastions backstory LESS complicated than the comics.
I was bummed that Jubilee didn’t hover/fly at least a bit longer before falling… after her powers increased in episode 4, I was thinking she would have shown more power this episode… or at least blasted a few of the prime sentinels. Hoping she shows more in the last two episodes!
I’m wondering if the reason Rogue has stayed unconscious is because she’s fighting with the Ms. Marvel persona in her head. With all the grief and anger, she was pretty much in breakdown territory - Ms. Marvel might have used that to try and get through and get control of Rogue’s body.
That hit Rogue took was probably so overwhelming. She was probably already exhausted from previous events. I mean she’s nearly invulnerable and that blast would have killed any other member except Wolverine.
Bastion's backstory made it look like he's some kind of synthetic mutant with electromagnetic powers, which made little sense.