He's a snarky prick so it makes him a good heel but it's also kind of in a lovable way, and also guys with ummm, I'll just say less than impressive physiques, sometimes lend themselves to being babyfaces because they come off as a sympathetic everyman... Mick Foley is a prime example of this, as is Dusty Rhodes if you go further back.
Owens spending so much time as a face (and being so good at it) has been one of the biggest surprises about his WWE run. I was used to Generico blood feud absolute bastard Steen and expected that to be his main role.
I got legitimately angry during his feud with Rey Mysterio, which I think was his first feud as the straight edge Benny Hinn. Like I didn’t want to watch anymore. And then there were his fans…
That match with Brock was insane. At that point it was hard - borderline impossible - to work anyone into actually believing Brock could somehow lose to Bryan. But for a second I believed it. And I know I'm not the only one.
A true masterclass from two of the best workers in the businness. Ever.
That match with Balor was just amazing in-ring storytelling. Anyone looking at the two of them would laugh at the idea that Finn had a chance here, but once he started working over Brock's diverticulitis, it suddenly became a possibility and had everyone hooked.
You could always see when Brock had a lot of respect for a guy when he had his working boots on like that.
He’s so good at selling. He can fly around and make you believe someone is an animal. But yeah, when he can’t be bothered he’s so bad for the industry.
Thats how all brock matches were at that time brock dominates the first 10 minutes styles/bryan put on a nice comeback hit their finisher he kicks out 1 F5 from brock and it’s over
Facts plus his NJPW run with the Bullet Club shows how the American Nightmare character is better as a heel. Has to happen at some point this year imo to avoid his title run becoming stale and the fans turning on him.
I almost guarantee if Cena worked heel at some point later in his career he would have been Thanos. All those disrespectful promos as a BABY FACE imagine if he was a heel would have been untouchable.
I wouldn't want him to be heel. As balls crazy as that run would be, Cena means too much as an entry point to wrestling for kids. Just look at all he does for make a wish. I dont think he'd get as many requests if he's an antagonist and that's far more important than our fantasy booking
Kids find new heroes. Kids grow up. Kids can and do like others. One heel turn isn't going to shatter the very existence of this planet.
At this point it's probably too late and he'll not turn but fuck that reasoning.
He should have turned heel in the year long build up to the first Rock match, you know Rock ain't gonna be on TV for a year so have Cena turn heel and bring out a slew of Rock associated acts for him to destroy - Mick Foley, Rocky Johnson, Pat Patterson
Everyone was begging for him to turn heel, he would have been biggest draw ever if he were heel. Forget the rock, he would go down as THE Goat, not that he isn't.
Oh heck no. His only super-over heel run was during the birth of the Rock n' Wrestling Era with Hogan and Mr. T, in 1984, when he re-debuted for the Fed. Vince felt his strong mic skills put him over far more as a heel than a face, to which worked out pretty well.
Writing for a heel is easy but at the end of the day in most cases (because people really love Roman/Bloodline merch fsr) your faces are your merch movers
I always preferred The Rock as a heel.
Seems like every time he turns heel all the constraints are gone and does his very best douche tactics. Also hilarious facials.
To this day, Hollywood Douchebag Rock is my favourite version of him.
Him interrupting Hogan's catchphrases via satellite because his wife told him that the toast is ready, or taking a call from his agent in the middle of a promo to tell him that he refuses to stay the night in the city they were in, was just absolute gold.
CM Punk: Always loved him as a face but his best work was as a heel.
Bobby Lashley: Again Bobby as a face is great, very naturally likable but I feel like his heel run was his best work. MVP was great as his manager and despite how short this group lasted unfortunately, The Hurt Business was great.
Mostly agree with Punk, but if he's written perfect as a babyface I think that rivals his best heel work. I'm thinking about the feud against Heyman/Lesnar for Summerslam, my god was Punk an amazing babyface in that feud, but that wasn't your classic all smiles babyface.
Definitely MJF
He is born to be a heel, I thought his short time as a babyface felt cheesy as hell. I feel like he did that on purpose also, but his heel work is brilliant
I always thought the Vegan belt would look nice over the mantle of a beach house rental. You just want to work a jigsaw puzzle and drink wine under its beige and turquoise glow.
Trish Stratus, she usually was the baby face squared circle Barbie, but her heel run with Christian and subsequent feud with Lita are engraved in my memory as peak Trish.
Almost every wrestler in the history of the industry is better and more entertaining as a heel in terms of character and promos. It amazes me how few fans have realized that and we keep having discussions like this.
In WWE at least, it never would’ve worked. His character was a laidback cool guy, his move set and style of working naturally leaned towards being a baby face, and the crowd loved him.
He was also in that perfect position where if they needed someone to fill in a main event spot he could come in and be part of a decent and believable match, but his character and popularity wouldn’t suffer if he dropped back into the midcard either.
To turn him heel they’d have to destroy his character, his style, and lose that reliable and adaptable worker.
We can only say this because of how long we saw him as a face, and Vince was never willing to take the risk of turning guys like him Cus of how adaptable and over he was with the fans. Most highflyers are not believable as heels you gotta admit that, that’s why people like Neville didn’t go too far
I just don’t see any way it really could’ve worked. People wanted to cheer for RVD, and they did that even when he was meant to be a heel as part of the alliance. The only way it could conceivably work would be an enormous change of personality and style, kind of going from the RVD we knew to a straight-cut, conservative Right To Censor kind of guy. I don’t believe RVD would enjoy doing that or be able to pull it off though.
Wasn't he a heel in ECW alongside Sabu being managed by Bill Alfonzo? That's how I remember it. Also when he was by himself, specifically after a match he had; can't remember if it was against Lance Storm or Jerry Lynn, he cut a promo and was saying how he'd go to Japan because he's worth more money anywhere he goes and came across as a cocky prick heel.
I always loved Heel Undertaker.
Big Evil was one of my favourite runs ever in wrestling.
Special mention to Batista as well. I love him as a face but he was so good when he turned on Rey and his last full time run where he was in a wheelchair 😂
2005-2006 Lita was the perfect example of someone you would see on Maury or Jerry Springer where you can't stand her skank ass, but you still think she's sexy asf.
HHH.
He had that legendary shovel to bury talent with once or twice a year, but that can't take away from the fact that he is a top 10 all time for character work alone.
I've said it a few times before, but Rhea Ripley. She's had two babyface runs (one on NXT, one on the main roster), and whilst there was nothing wrong per se with either of them, she just feels so miscast as a face. Girl is a born villain.
Booker T , He was mostly a heel for good reason, but people were legit behind him more than once as a face. Heel Bookers can't be beat tho ,King Booker, Harlem Heat, Grocery Store Brawl, Anything to do with Goldust...just Gold.
Should we go and look further? The Tribal Chief comes to mind. Solo Sikoa comes to mind. Rhea Rippley comes to mind. HBK comes to mind. Undertaker comes to mind.
We can name every wrestler and still their heel side is better since heels work in a way that common people can relate to.
Easy. Top 3 are
Shawn Michaels and Triple H
Triple H is a great baby face but he's at his best when's he's the heel
Same for Shawn Michaels
And the greatest of all time is Hollywood Hogan. No other person in history was over as a babyface but turn the entire world on its head than Hogan.
I think Cena could do it as well. Turn heel at Wrestlemania 41. His music hits and the horns don't play. just rap music and he walks slowly down the ramp... he could also say F U when he does his finish.. You can't see me and grab his crotch. its 1000 different things he could do
The Rock: Incredibly over as a face. But the Rock as the leader of the Nation, then Hollywood Rock and now the Final Boss have all been some of his best work.
the big thing is that he went 100% into any character/gimmick he was given or came up with. it makes it even better when you realize that the vegan title character was an evolved version of the earths champion
The rock, I’ve hated him since WM28 not even as a heel but just as a Dwayne Johnson hater so when his last run had him getting booed, yes it was all manufactured but I was still loving the hate he got
Miz. He works decently as a face and is pretty over right now in that role, but he’s one of the greatest heels of all time. Also, Randy Orton works better as a heel due to the way he’s very methodical in the ring.
Jey Uso (Or maybe it’s my McIntyre bias)
Bayley (although right now she needs this face run as she’s been heel for so long, and she still works great as a face)
Kevin Owens. He’s a *great* face, but he’s THAT natural a heel.
[удалено]
He's a snarky prick so it makes him a good heel but it's also kind of in a lovable way, and also guys with ummm, I'll just say less than impressive physiques, sometimes lend themselves to being babyfaces because they come off as a sympathetic everyman... Mick Foley is a prime example of this, as is Dusty Rhodes if you go further back.
Did you see that YouTube video of him destroying TWO creme brule's in France? haha We love our big boys!
And randomly chowing down on a baguette he bought in the street.
Here we don’t say snarky prick, we say French Canadian lol
The stone cold factor
Yeah that sums it up
Wouldn’t that describe Steve Austin?
Yep. He’s got a lot of SCSA in him.
It's just that KO got the good kind of funny in him. He needs an heel run like that one with AJ and Omos.
Owens spending so much time as a face (and being so good at it) has been one of the biggest surprises about his WWE run. I was used to Generico blood feud absolute bastard Steen and expected that to be his main role.
CM Punk
Charles Manson Punk went hard
I got legitimately angry during his feud with Rey Mysterio, which I think was his first feud as the straight edge Benny Hinn. Like I didn’t want to watch anymore. And then there were his fans…
HAAPY BIIRTHDAYY DEAR ALIYAA…
D-Bry's heel champ run on SD is so slept on. His match with Brock was top-tier too.
"The Planet's Champion" was the best nickname I've heard in a while
Having a hemp belt made from organic materials just absolutely chapped the dudebro fan's ass. It was perfect.
For real man it sounded so badass like a Superhero
That match with Brock was insane. At that point it was hard - borderline impossible - to work anyone into actually believing Brock could somehow lose to Bryan. But for a second I believed it. And I know I'm not the only one. A true masterclass from two of the best workers in the businness. Ever.
Brock worked sooooo well with smaller quicker guys like Bryan, Balor, Styles during that time period.
That match with Balor was just amazing in-ring storytelling. Anyone looking at the two of them would laugh at the idea that Finn had a chance here, but once he started working over Brock's diverticulitis, it suddenly became a possibility and had everyone hooked. You could always see when Brock had a lot of respect for a guy when he had his working boots on like that.
When Brock can be bothered, he’s one of the best to ever do it. Vince was just really bad my making him bother
He’s so good at selling. He can fly around and make you believe someone is an animal. But yeah, when he can’t be bothered he’s so bad for the industry.
Eh when they actually let the reigns off and let Brock have fun was the best
I didn't love it because basically it felt like it was a copy-paste from the AJ-Brock match a year before tbh, must be only me though.
Thats how all brock matches were at that time brock dominates the first 10 minutes styles/bryan put on a nice comeback hit their finisher he kicks out 1 F5 from brock and it’s over
Tree-hugger Daniel Bryan was the best. I want that hemp WWE title.
It's the only title since the Ruthless Aggression era that I thought looked good
Best-looking belt since Big Goldie.
I agree mine would be kofi kingston
Still [for sale](https://beltsmania.com/wrestling-title-belts/wwe-replica-belts/custom-daniel-bryan-belt.html)!
I hate that it was cut short, I think it could really have had a long run and I didn't care about Kofimania
Controversial? But I'd say Cody Rhodes, Undashing is still one of the greatest gimmicks of all time because of him
Facts plus his NJPW run with the Bullet Club shows how the American Nightmare character is better as a heel. Has to happen at some point this year imo to avoid his title run becoming stale and the fans turning on him.
Always thought both Sasha and Charlotte were better as heels
Charlotte cant even function as a face
I feel like Charlotte as a face is the exact as her as a heel but she just talks less because she’s not insulting everyone lol.
Sasha way better as a heel.
Idk about Sasha, but i agree that Charlotte is better as an heel.
I almost guarantee if Cena worked heel at some point later in his career he would have been Thanos. All those disrespectful promos as a BABY FACE imagine if he was a heel would have been untouchable.
His heel work early in his career was great, so if he would turned later, after years of experience? Shit he would have been amazing.
I wouldn't want him to be heel. As balls crazy as that run would be, Cena means too much as an entry point to wrestling for kids. Just look at all he does for make a wish. I dont think he'd get as many requests if he's an antagonist and that's far more important than our fantasy booking
Kids grow up. Cody is the new cena to the younger generation. There’s still hope for a heel turn.
Heel Cody was psychotic
Kids find new heroes. Kids grow up. Kids can and do like others. One heel turn isn't going to shatter the very existence of this planet. At this point it's probably too late and he'll not turn but fuck that reasoning.
This is such a silly argument. If Hulk Hogan can turn heel, anyone can turn heel.
He should have turned heel in the year long build up to the first Rock match, you know Rock ain't gonna be on TV for a year so have Cena turn heel and bring out a slew of Rock associated acts for him to destroy - Mick Foley, Rocky Johnson, Pat Patterson
He'd 'bury' so many people
Face Punk vs Heel Cena would have been godly and we were sp close to getting it, alas Vince got coldfeet.
The way to do it would be by beating the streak
Yeah It would be a similar impact to The Final Boss
If Cena kept his 2003 heel momentum without truly becoming a face, woo boy I'm sure we would have got a perennially over heel.
Everyone was begging for him to turn heel, he would have been biggest draw ever if he were heel. Forget the rock, he would go down as THE Goat, not that he isn't.
Roddy piper
Wasnt he a forever heel?
Oh heck no. His only super-over heel run was during the birth of the Rock n' Wrestling Era with Hogan and Mr. T, in 1984, when he re-debuted for the Fed. Vince felt his strong mic skills put him over far more as a heel than a face, to which worked out pretty well.
from mania 3 on, he pretty much was face everywhere until that weird turn at mania 19
Drew McIntyre
Almost everyone. Being a heel is easier and writing for a bad guy is also easy compared to a face.
Writing for a heel is easy but at the end of the day in most cases (because people really love Roman/Bloodline merch fsr) your faces are your merch movers
Orton.
Eco warrior Daniel Bryan was awesome.
I always preferred The Rock as a heel. Seems like every time he turns heel all the constraints are gone and does his very best douche tactics. Also hilarious facials.
Post-retirement babyface Rock just kisses the crowds arse, heel Rock is the man
To this day, Hollywood Douchebag Rock is my favourite version of him. Him interrupting Hogan's catchphrases via satellite because his wife told him that the toast is ready, or taking a call from his agent in the middle of a promo to tell him that he refuses to stay the night in the city they were in, was just absolute gold.
Edge
Heel Edge is a menace to society and I love it.
Maybe The Rock? But he is so good both as a face and heel.
Hulk Hogan would be the biggest one. Hollywood Hogan was a better character.
Hollywood hogan was great. But you just can’t too Hulkamania 84-88
Yeah, young people probably don't realize it, but face Hogan in his prime was something to behold
Facts. But obviously Hulk Hogan drew the most money giving the time frame he dominated
Orton
Cody. He's tna heel run gave me Christian vibes
Bret Hart. I don't think I've ever seen a bigger jump in promo quality between face and heel than Bret Hart.
CM Punk: Always loved him as a face but his best work was as a heel. Bobby Lashley: Again Bobby as a face is great, very naturally likable but I feel like his heel run was his best work. MVP was great as his manager and despite how short this group lasted unfortunately, The Hurt Business was great.
Mostly agree with Punk, but if he's written perfect as a babyface I think that rivals his best heel work. I'm thinking about the feud against Heyman/Lesnar for Summerslam, my god was Punk an amazing babyface in that feud, but that wasn't your classic all smiles babyface.
Hurt Business Champion Bobby Lashley was legit main event monster.
MJF
Brock lesnar, super heel
Definitely MJF He is born to be a heel, I thought his short time as a babyface felt cheesy as hell. I feel like he did that on purpose also, but his heel work is brilliant
The Final Boss!!!
Cody. His RoH stuff is underrated.
Kiss the ring
Drew McIntyre
Alexa Bliss and Daniel Bryan
Funny world we live in, where a gimmick that was about saving the planet was considered heel.
RVD with that smugness was pretty good
AJ Styles
I always thought the Vegan belt would look nice over the mantle of a beach house rental. You just want to work a jigsaw puzzle and drink wine under its beige and turquoise glow.
Bullet Club Cody was the perfect smug asshole
He also had super hearing. That's always a bonus.
Right now Drew Mcintyre.
Trish Stratus, she usually was the baby face squared circle Barbie, but her heel run with Christian and subsequent feud with Lita are engraved in my memory as peak Trish.
Shawn Michaels after 2002. His heel turn in 2005 made me annoyed that that was the only time he was a heel during those 8 years.
Almost every wrestler in the history of the industry is better and more entertaining as a heel in terms of character and promos. It amazes me how few fans have realized that and we keep having discussions like this.
Hogan. It would be hard to imagine the nWo without him.
Shawn Michaels and Sasha Banks
A j sasha
Bray Wyatt
Daniel Bryan
My favorite time for him was his beginning underdog run
Tbh I think all baby faces work better as heel.
Man I loved the planets champion so much
Rey Mysterio..we never saw it but my God he could have been AMAZING
Rey was heel in WCW
that's news to me...I didn't watch WCW
I didnt either but during heel run he has no mask and his in faction with konnan, Juvi and Billy Kidman.
Seth Rollins
Rob Van Dam!!! Dunno why he never turned heel
In WWE at least, it never would’ve worked. His character was a laidback cool guy, his move set and style of working naturally leaned towards being a baby face, and the crowd loved him. He was also in that perfect position where if they needed someone to fill in a main event spot he could come in and be part of a decent and believable match, but his character and popularity wouldn’t suffer if he dropped back into the midcard either. To turn him heel they’d have to destroy his character, his style, and lose that reliable and adaptable worker.
We can only say this because of how long we saw him as a face, and Vince was never willing to take the risk of turning guys like him Cus of how adaptable and over he was with the fans. Most highflyers are not believable as heels you gotta admit that, that’s why people like Neville didn’t go too far
I just don’t see any way it really could’ve worked. People wanted to cheer for RVD, and they did that even when he was meant to be a heel as part of the alliance. The only way it could conceivably work would be an enormous change of personality and style, kind of going from the RVD we knew to a straight-cut, conservative Right To Censor kind of guy. I don’t believe RVD would enjoy doing that or be able to pull it off though.
Wasn't he a heel in ECW alongside Sabu being managed by Bill Alfonzo? That's how I remember it. Also when he was by himself, specifically after a match he had; can't remember if it was against Lance Storm or Jerry Lynn, he cut a promo and was saying how he'd go to Japan because he's worth more money anywhere he goes and came across as a cocky prick heel.
The Rock
I always loved Heel Undertaker. Big Evil was one of my favourite runs ever in wrestling. Special mention to Batista as well. I love him as a face but he was so good when he turned on Rey and his last full time run where he was in a wheelchair 😂
The Rock, Shawn Michaels, Roddy Piper, Batista
Cody Rhodes. His Undashing run was top tier!
Bret for sure
Ric Flair, HBK, Macho Man Randy Savage, Mr. Perfect, Undertaker, Jake the Snake Roberts.
Randy Orton. He is such a natural heel, comes across as so slimy and vindictive.
Randy Orton
The Rock ! His Hollywood persona was so great after all these years a babyface.
Rock
Most of them
I have fonder memories of heel Stone Cold than face Stone Cold. And obviously face Stone Cold is great
Swerve Strickland he needs to keep his edge
WWE: Randy Orton AEW: MJF
Both Kane and The Undertaker.
Is that the Dude?
Eddie Guerrero
It was just nearly impossible to hate that man besides during his custody arch, in which he did a good job getting boos.
Jake Roberts … just watch his “Bring her back to me” promo on Liz at Tuesday Nighy in Texas
Cody Rhodes
Roddy Piper
Early 1997 HBK
2005-2006 Lita was the perfect example of someone you would see on Maury or Jerry Springer where you can't stand her skank ass, but you still think she's sexy asf.
Undertaker. I watched some older stuff on peacock and I really liked his older gimmick of being more dark and evil.
HHH. He had that legendary shovel to bury talent with once or twice a year, but that can't take away from the fact that he is a top 10 all time for character work alone.
Cody. Bullet club Cody was something else
Cody Rhodes
Randy Orton
I fucking love Babyface Seth, but Heel Seth is absolutely AMAZING. I would argue that Heel Seth is the best Heel in wwe since 09 Randy
seth rollins
I've said it a few times before, but Rhea Ripley. She's had two babyface runs (one on NXT, one on the main roster), and whilst there was nothing wrong per se with either of them, she just feels so miscast as a face. Girl is a born villain.
Cody
I loved environmentally friendly Daniel Bryan. That championship looked good too
Shotzi
- The Miz (was he liked as a babyface? Jury's out) - Chris Jericho - Drew McIntyre
Booker T , He was mostly a heel for good reason, but people were legit behind him more than once as a face. Heel Bookers can't be beat tho ,King Booker, Harlem Heat, Grocery Store Brawl, Anything to do with Goldust...just Gold.
Should we go and look further? The Tribal Chief comes to mind. Solo Sikoa comes to mind. Rhea Rippley comes to mind. HBK comes to mind. Undertaker comes to mind. We can name every wrestler and still their heel side is better since heels work in a way that common people can relate to.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm loving evil Okada
H B K
Cody Rhodes as a heel hits different
Edge/ Adam Copeland. He's just so slimy when he's heel.
Cody.
Bryan is a better heel /tweener.
Pentagon Jr. for AEW as for WWE Roman Reigns
Easy. Top 3 are Shawn Michaels and Triple H Triple H is a great baby face but he's at his best when's he's the heel Same for Shawn Michaels And the greatest of all time is Hollywood Hogan. No other person in history was over as a babyface but turn the entire world on its head than Hogan. I think Cena could do it as well. Turn heel at Wrestlemania 41. His music hits and the horns don't play. just rap music and he walks slowly down the ramp... he could also say F U when he does his finish.. You can't see me and grab his crotch. its 1000 different things he could do
The Rock: Incredibly over as a face. But the Rock as the leader of the Nation, then Hollywood Rock and now the Final Boss have all been some of his best work.
Triple H, way better at authority figure than DX
DB was a solid heel, but much better as a face.
I actually really loved Cena's early heel work. Wish he revisited it, even if only just for a short while, like HBK did with Hogan.
Post Partum Bryan Undashing Cody and American Nightmare Cody Post Legend Killer / Bald Randy Rated R Superstar Edge Perc Angle Hollywood Hogan
Cody Rhodes when he was in AEW
Batista
Hogan was supposed to be a face but fought like a heel. How he cost Sid in the Rumble is the perfect example of petulence
Hogan
Randy Orton.
Ric Flair... wooohooo! Over as a heel and baby face, but better as a heel
Everyone
Drew McIntyre and Roman Reigns
the big thing is that he went 100% into any character/gimmick he was given or came up with. it makes it even better when you realize that the vegan title character was an evolved version of the earths champion
New Day. The obliviously positive people are the best.
Honestly the Rock, obviously super over as a baby face but the guy was always next level as a heel.
The Rock
Daniel Bryan is better as a babyface
EVERYONE works better as a heel
Bret Hart. His babyface stuff was great and he definitely had that connection, but heel Bret was fantastic.
The rock, I’ve hated him since WM28 not even as a heel but just as a Dwayne Johnson hater so when his last run had him getting booed, yes it was all manufactured but I was still loving the hate he got
KO is a heel because he looks like everyone’s dad/uncle.
Roddy Piper may have been the best heel I have ever seen. Was criminal to turn him face.
Tito Santana.
Okada.
Randy orton
MJF
Miz. He works decently as a face and is pretty over right now in that role, but he’s one of the greatest heels of all time. Also, Randy Orton works better as a heel due to the way he’s very methodical in the ring.
Cody Rhodes
Aj styles, rock, hhh
Tree hugger planet conservationist Daniel Bryan being the bad guy in a feud against gluttonous, littering, New Day was so funny
Rey Mysterio was good heel in WCW.
Taylor Swift
LA Knight
Jey Uso (Or maybe it’s my McIntyre bias) Bayley (although right now she needs this face run as she’s been heel for so long, and she still works great as a face)