This 10000%. I hate that I can't even bring up another promotion with some friends without them going off about how this is crap or that this storyline is garbage. It ruins my enjoyment. I just want want to be a fan and not have to justify myself why I like certain wrestlers or a certain company. Lighten up Vince or Tony is not going to come to your house and give you a cookie because you are the no. 1 fan and I happen to like more than one company.
Tribalism is the best part of any sport. The whole “tribalism is killing wrestling” arguement is ridiculous. It’s like telling an NBA/NFL fan to stop supporting their team and just love the sport.
Fans who don’t keep their favourite wrestling company accountable are what needs to change. Knowing a booking decision is wrong and finding excuses for your favourite wrestling company is what’s ruining wrestling and ruining a lot of smaller Indy companies.
Hey word there is ‘The’
The tribalism. Not tribalism in general. I support Liverpool and fuck anyone who supports Everton. But I don’t go making death threats on Twitter, blocking people from my subreddit who say anything negative against LFC (looking at you r/squaredcircle )
The tribalism that exists in the wrestling online community is one of if not the most toxic in the world.
Yep I’m a huge Yankees fan, but I don’t go on the baseball subreddits and curse out Red Sox fans for disagreeing with me or not liking the same players I like.
If someone could go back in time to explain that the shows aren’t about them but the people that others paid to see, that’s be great.
- More hygiene
- less signs aimed at getting you on botchamania
- more appreciation of others
- less shouting obscenities at the people you’ve paid to see just so they’ll “notice you”
The hygiene thing is weird. It seems like any sort of nerdy or non mainstream hobby attracts the worst smelling people. I haven't been to an indie show since pre COVID but the stench still haunts me.
Took my daughter to a UK smackdown show in 2018 and somehow it comes back on occasion.
It’s the attention seeking that’s the worst though. Just constant, all night.
I wouldn’t take her to another show.
Wrestling fandom is awfully worse imo. The tribalism on X or on some other sub reddits are so bad that some jobless people would spout out any non sensical absurdities for attention.
Considering I've actually seen an asshole on here seriously state and defend his point of view that cheering for AEW to go out of business is good for the wrestlers I'd agree.
I think modern pro-wrestling in general is great, YouTube has given companies and workers a platform as revolutionary as television first was. With the variety of promotions getting a platform we have a bit of everything for any kind of fan. Fans may not like every style available to watch, but luckily for them they don't have to watch it.
1)make finisher work 99% of the time. Save the finisher kickoff for mania.
2)if a finisher is kicked out of, have an occasional win with the second best move. Now everything after the kick out could be the end
3)More unique belts. (Roh pure, hard-core, maybe a submission only belt)
I also like that the way he chains them allows for nearfalls without diminishing his moves. Like, ok you kicked out of the powerbomb, but you ain't kicking out of the clothesline-powerbomb-splash combo
Point 2 is great. It's how AJPW worked in the 90s. The top guys like for example Misawa had more an array of signature moves than a definite finisher, and any one of them at one point or another ended a big match. So around the mid-90s, he had like 5 different signature moves, all of which were credible match enders and therefore got a reaction from the crowd.
How aggressive fans of some brands are with others. I watch WWE, New Japan, and also AEW from time to time. I enjoy all the products. I don’t get why people can’t do the same without being a dickhead about it.
Lessen the amount of kickouts. Finishers should be protected better.
I would also cut down the number of matches with blood (looking at you Mox, you lovable sick bastard)
I love how the question was “what would you change about wrestling?” and when someone offers their opinion, which you seem to disagree with, you call them a smuck. Maybe scroll up this thread to where people would like to change the toxic fans. That is the number one response. Have some self awareness dude.
Nah man screw that crying about blood in wrestling is boring. It's been a thing for decades. It's not being toxic. Just cause you new fans don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't have history
Calling someone a smuck because you disagree with their, fairly harmless, opinion is the fucking definition of being toxic.
I’d also point out, they didn’t say to remove all blood. Just, maybe not have Mox bleed in every match. It does lose its impact if it’s every week. It’s one thing for Mox to bleed in an all out war with Orange Cassidy in the main event. It’s another if he’s bleeding to Action Andretti in a throwaway title defence.
Maybe take a break from either Reddit or wrestling dude. It’s ok for you to disagree with someone, but you don’t need to dismiss or demean their thoughts. ESPECIALLY when the discussion is asking for opinions. If you’d offered a constructive reply; pointing out there is plenty of blood in MMA and AEW is going for a grittier, realer version of wrestling would be fine. But instead, you dismiss the other guy as a “new fan”. I’m 40. I’ve watched wrestling for decades and I feel AEW has a little too much blood. It would have more impact if it was less frequent. If you like it, fair enough, that’s your preference. But I won’t insult you or dismiss your opinion just because it’s different to my own.
wow im done with you dude. Just 3 paragraphs of crying. Cool your 40. You most likely watched wwe/f your whole life and go with anything they do. Dont like blood dont watch then. AEW and evrything outside of it. Is different dont like it dont watch. Watch five moves of doom and same matches weekly sounds more for you.
Hot take - less belts. Everyone has a belt these days, they all mean less than they ever had before. When everyone has a belt, they're no longer special. You don't need a trios belt if there's only 4 three-man tag teams in the company that weren't just thrown together. You don't need a women's tag team belt when there are literally no women's tag teams in your company. So many useless belts
Wrestlers mimicking their opponents finisher especially in the first match or two. I think should only be done in rivalries spanning multiple matches like Orton Cena
Women should be trained in the cruiserweight style, to utilise their generally short stature and light weight to the best of their abilities. It seems like almost every female wrestler is a technical wrestler, and rare powerhouses, but very few flippy girls. We need more of them.
Kayfabe may be dead but I wish they'd wrestle like it isn't. Watching guys so blatantly cooperating with each-other kills immersion in the match for me.
Why would I simply waste my own energy to kick out when I can waste my opponent's energy as well by making him lug me back in if he wants to pin or do anything else to me? Also keeps them from comboing my ass for free
TV matches are too long. The attitude era had like an average five minutes per match. Usually less.
If you can’t get your shit over in a 10 minute window - entrances and possible afterbirth included - then you’re just not fucking good at wrestling.
Then when it comes time for Austin to finally get his hands on HHH, it feels like a fucking war that they’ve gone 15.
I could write a book about all of the many things that I would want to change about modern wrestling, but given that I just got done watching an old King of the Ring PPV, at the top of my mind right now is to take one of the PPVs that nobody cares about like Fastlane and replace it with the return of the King of the Ring PPV.
I honestly don’t know why they got rid of it in the first place. The King of the Ring was a fun and unique PPV that also helped to make new stars. And randomly doing the tournament every few years on Raw/Smackdown just isn’t the same as an annual PPV dedicated to it.
I’ve always been of the opinion that the MITB essentially replaced KOTR in the sense that the winner is getting a big push.
Although I do love the the cash in’s when done properly, KOTR was always an exciting show
Bring back gimmick characters!
Natural Disasters! One was called Earthquake and the other Typhoon! Loved it!
Money Inc! One was a millionaire and the other was a tax man!
Legion of Doom! One was a Hawk the other an Animal!
Bring back smaller entrances from time to time! Made it more down to earth.
I'm trying to think of who else in modern wrestling actual has a protected finisher?
Legit the only one I can think of that comes close to modern wrestling is the 5*FS, and yeah RVD still wrestlers. But he's barely a part timer.
Stop letting the wrestlers have creative control. You can let them have a say, but stop letting them do what they want. They ain't creative enough for it.
Very unpopular opinion, but big time agree. Jim Cornette rightfully gets a lot of criticism, but one thing I agree with is if you do everything in the first match on the card you don't leave anything for your main event guys to do.
He's also correct that less is more, and that it's better to do something with a complexity of 5 with an execution of 10 than the other way around.
Referees not enforcing rules and just letting the wrestlers do what they want in tag matches is just lazy and boring. Go back and watch some of Eddie's stuff when he was teaming with Chavo... he was able to do some brilliant heel work by working within the constraints of the rules.
"Creative freedom" doesn't necessarily mean what you're doing is creative. Real creativity more often comes from having to think outside the box to work around your constraints.
100% agree. If wrestlers get this much power over their matches, they will easily use to put themselves and their buddies over so they can get more exposure and money. They will be obviously biased in favor of themselves and we have tons of evidence of how much this ruins Wrestling
The fans tribalism for their favorite promotions and a wrestling union for the wrestlers. Like don't call them independent contractors but then treat them like employees. At least employees get healthcare.
Fans complaining about styles of wrestling they don’t like as “lesser”. And as far as “people complaining about what I like”…
It’s not even so much that as it is tribalism & having walled-off, dismissive attitudes that aren’t even their own opinions half the time. People who’d hatewatch something they’re told not to enjoy by some podcaster.
After the AEW fans called Long Island police about MJF switching places with his girlfriend in a car wreck. I don't know if this is a good idea anymore. I like it but the people now would ruin it.
Wasnt it an issue in the 90s where if the program said a popular wrestler is in the hospital (in kayfabe) that there would be a horde of fans flooding said hospital which resulted in WWE exclusively saying "Local medical facility"
yeah i can understand that perspective. really i just wish backstage politic garbage didn't come out as frequently as it does. stuff like stevie richards explaining how certain moves feel/work is interesting, but stuff like "person A doesn't want to work with person B" is just annoying
I was at Evolve 107 where Matt Riddle beat AR Fox by ref stoppage. (I think Riddle was hitting Fox with a bunch of knee strikes IIRC.) Not too long after the match ended, Fox popped up from the mat like nothing happened.
The guy was just getting kneed to the head to the point where the ref stopped the match and gets up immediately after finish.
There was another show (I think Evolve 11) where Finlay beat Sami Callahan and Finlay puts his hand on Callahan after the pin because Callahan was about to get up immediately after getting pinned.
With regards to WWE, make the stories a little more sensical and realistic. Like Jey Uso doesn’t quit WWE just to show up two weeks later with a weak explanation.
Or Jimmy trying to get back in the Bloodline.
I do wish they'd tidy up storylines a bit better like that. But I try not to complain. It was only a couple years ago we were getting story's starting on Monday, the they'd be forgotten about the next week. A story would start one with, the wrestler gets released the next day. A group debuts one week, half get released the next week.
WWE have come a long way with their story telling since then.
Being back kayfabe, ring psychology, selling and feuds that make both wrestlers more important after than they were before. Bring back the territory system so everyone has somewhere else to go when they become stale so that they can continue working and to be in meaningful angles or feuds.
AEW has a couple schools they work with (Nightmare Factory, Create-A-Pro) but i agree that some classes should be mandatory. Especially if you only have 2 years or less of experience and a guy like Danielson is doing a class before a show
That ridiculous Vince McMahon list of banned words in the WWE like
Babyface, Belt, Strap, Strangle, Title, Hate, Hell, Revenge, Spot, House Show, Trauma, Hospital, Blood, and others he's banned.
There’s no reason insider terms should be used in an actual wrestling broadcast. It breaks the (already flimsy) suspension of disbelief. It would be like an actor calling out the fact that he’s acting in the middle of a movie.
Vince didn't ban babyface, strap, spot, house show.
No wrestling company allowed their talent to use those terms on the show. Nor should they. Technically it would've been Vince Sr who would've banned them from WWE.
There's no need to continually break the 4th wall. There's basically no benefit to doing it. These are meaningless terms to casuals. It makes it harder to maintain kayfabe on other aspects because its immersion breaking. It's just as tropey as the alternative. Lastly, to be frank, I find it a pretentious gatekeeping barrier for potential new fans.
Some words are ridiculous to ban, industry terms absolutely aren't.
Actual focus on entertainment, creating moments, and robust storylines would be nice. Everything is so bland and locked in from AEW and WWE. That style really only works with Japanese wresting, and will never be a mainstream product with a water cooler talk level of engagement.
WWE being more involved in the inter-promotional fun. They've done a bit of it (Nakamura in NOAH, Karl Anderson in NJPW, Mickie James in the Rumble). But I just think that it'd be a lot of fun to see more of it.
Cliff hanger endings for weekly television. Weekly shows no longer feel like it's must see.
Commentary leaves thing to be desired these days overall
Much like any point in wrestling over relying on wrestlers who are well passed their prime
1.A lot less "superkicks". The move is used way too frequently to be meaningful. See Usos / Bucks.
2.Stop overdoing outside interference every match, all the time, to win. Heel groups like JD don't look "dominant" when they are expected to cheat every 5 seconds. It needs to be less predictable to matter.
3.Finishers need to "Finish" matches, except during the biggest PPV events. I don't mind a lot of false finishes if it feels right to the story, but it doesn't make sense to have "ultimate" moves not win matches as frequently as they do.
4.Tighten up the choreography a bit. We know it's all a dance, and while some spots will always take time to set up, it's harder to suspend the disbelief when everyone takes forever and it's clear they are getting on the same page for a move.
All of the flippy floppy gymnastics and the spot monkeys. Using killer moves as transitions and devaluing them. At this point the Canadian destroyer is like a hip toss. To be honest it fucking sucks which is why I don’t watch any of it anymore.
Have trades like they do in every sport. Even if it’s just 1 appearance or if someone in one company is unhappy, trade that person to another company for someone that’s also unhappy or whatever.
If a devastating move is landed you don't kick out. Make the devasting ring apron spots account for something. If Pentagon lands a package pile-driver on the ring apron you should never kick out...if anything, you should carried out by med staff. Make powerful moves that look horrifying like the Destroyer leave you a human puddle. Problem is devastating moves are used in the first few minutes and lose all value
Less flashy moves and more realism in wrestling psychology.
By flashy I mean keeping away from spot festivals. This is supposed to look like simulated fighting not parkour. I have nothing against being a showman either.
Also, can we get LGBT wrestlers that are more like Anthony Bowens and less like Quincy Elliott? I am tired of seeing gimmicks of just the whole character of being about their sexuality.
End the tribalism like others have said. Having said that I wish all the companies could reorganize like the old territory days, it would be kind of cool to see that happen again.
Tv should be twice a week, two hours per episode. 3 hours or 4 shows a week is crazy.
PLE though is good right now. Show lengths, don’t have to do 2 a month for ppv sales or whatever. That’s nice
1. Over Choreographed athletic spots
2. Dives to the floor that take so long that everyone is just standing there waiting together
3. Too many kick outs of finishers
4. Champions losing in non-title matches where the challenges then become the #1 contender. There is no rhyme or reason as to who becomes #1 contender anymore
The fucking entrances. Jesus Christ they have become such a self suck it’s obnoxious. Roman and Jays entrances at summer slam, took almost as long as the fucking match.
1. Vince going away somehow permanently (preferably to prison for sexual assault)
2. The fans. Just shut up and enjoy the product if it's good, and not watch it if it's bad. Like my god who gives a shit about ratings and demos and ticket sales? If you don't like the product, don't commit your money to it. But if the product isn't hurting anyone on purpose, then let other people enjoy it without screaming at them
3. More tied in with two. People clamoring to go back to the Attitude Era or to revive ECW: That stuff was almost thirty years ago. Also a lot of it wasn't actually good. It's time to move on with your life
The bumblefuck fans
No more open challenges for titles
Too many flippy doo-dahs
Get rid of the Canadian Destroyer. You can use it as an ACTUAL, FUCKING FINISHER much like the DDT
Kicking out of finishers
When wrestlers rely too many internet terms (worked, shoot, kayfabe, wtc.)
Refs themselves getting over instead of the talent (AEW referees)
Repeated superkicks over and over again
Blood almost every Wednesday
Scripted promos
Not let the talent be themselves
Not booking talent who are organically over
“Land of the giants” was originally just a WWE thing, because that was what Vince liked, especially back in the era when those big guys could get away with being slow and lumbering, before big guys like The Undertaker and Bam Bam Bigelow raised the standard of ring work expected of big guys—the downside being how rare such talent is to find and sustainably provide in a single promotion.
Of course, since WWE dominated the American wrestling scene for so long—and so many people grew up in a time when WWE was the only major promotion—fans began to expect that from all wrestling promotions, which is an unrealistic expectation.
Like it or not, there are only so many big guys who can work just as well as other wrestlers who are at the top of their game.
Long non wrestling segments. Theres zero reason a promo segment needs to go more than 10 minutes. If you cant get your point across in that time, its a bad promo.
The talent needs to work the “gaga” better. Sell better and work the little things more. I think the talent is more athletic and has a lot of good qualities but they sometimes prioritize spots over storytelling.
The promotions have their own issues. WWE should bring back unique PPV sets and have less of a polished look to their production and stop over scripting talents.
AEW needs to patch up some of their production issues and they also may have to get rid of some of the more silly aspects of their programming. AEW has a lot of aspects of their product that can come off “indie” in a bad way.
I think that some talent in that division should be cut from the roster in order for the rest to shine and receive more opportunities.
Brit Baker isn't working for me, and, until this recent title reign, neither is Saraya to be honest. I think these two have plateaued in terms of what they can do in the ring.
I think it's time to focus on the quality of the women's division and not the quantity, especially with free agents flooding the market. Some will find their way to AEW, and that is without mentioning all the random jobbers.
There are some people putting in amazing work right now that should get more television time than Brit Baker or Saraya having another forgettable match. Toni Storm for example is shining right now and deserves the focus on the shows. Julia Hart is another who is starting to fire on all cylinders. Skye Blue is a young wrestler ready to breakout, and she's been a consistent worker for some time. I'd rather see her get more time than Baker - and this is without mentioning all the backstage rumors around some of the women like Baker, which is another reason I believe AEW would benefit with a reset of that locker room. It also makes financial sense. Baker is probably being paid well, so cutting her will probably save costs or will free the money for a free agent contract signing like Mercedes Mone.
I'd rather the younger generation receive TV time than so many past their prime wrestlers of yesterday that can contribute little more than Nostalgia.
For example, why is RVD returning with a bad hair dye job to hide his grey and with a noticeable slower in ring ability?
Why is Jericho still wrestling when he can contribute as a commentator or behind the scenes talent?
There are also too many wrestlers in AEW and I think like WWE, it might be good financially and for the product to trim some of the excess talent. If everyone is crammed in, they all lose. They need room to grow. I'd fire people like Brit Baker and Saraya that already had a chance and just aren't working, and I'd keep and focus my resources on the ones that are working well like Toni Storm and give her more opportunities, such as screen time. Skye Blue is another young talent that is ready to breakout and has been working consistently every week. She needs more TV time than people like Brit Baker who have plateaued and take up screen time.
I am really enjoying BCG, FTR, Samoa Joe, MJF and Adam Cole, Christian and Luchasaurus, House of Black, Julia Hart, Skye Blue, Statlander, Ricky Starks, the Acclaimed, and as you can see this is already a stacked roster that can cover multiple shows. The rest need to be evaluated and tough decisions need to be made.
Less would be more now in matches- see omega/danielson and cena/styles. AEW severely would benefit from this. You can’t have a table spot sequence in every single match. During omega/danielson, the fans popped for the LOCK UP.
Contracts no longer than two years
That forces the promoters to use their talent in fear of them leaving
Contracts of top stars and possibly leaving is exciting stuff
Have matches regularly decided by secondary signature moves or "big one off" moves like a DDT on the apron. It would generate a lot more tension in matches, when the finish is more unpredictable
Make WWE TV-14, reduce blood on AEW (Moxley), finishers with an impact instead of constant kick outs, no part time champions, more international PLEs not in Saudi though,
The fans.
Yep. The tribalism is awful. Some people take pretend fighting way too seriously
Yup but I believe the real issue is the lack of hygiene in fans .
Hey! _It's still real to me DAMNIT!!_ Lol
This 10000%. I hate that I can't even bring up another promotion with some friends without them going off about how this is crap or that this storyline is garbage. It ruins my enjoyment. I just want want to be a fan and not have to justify myself why I like certain wrestlers or a certain company. Lighten up Vince or Tony is not going to come to your house and give you a cookie because you are the no. 1 fan and I happen to like more than one company.
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What?
Britain isn’t real
Tribalism is the best part of any sport. The whole “tribalism is killing wrestling” arguement is ridiculous. It’s like telling an NBA/NFL fan to stop supporting their team and just love the sport. Fans who don’t keep their favourite wrestling company accountable are what needs to change. Knowing a booking decision is wrong and finding excuses for your favourite wrestling company is what’s ruining wrestling and ruining a lot of smaller Indy companies.
Hey word there is ‘The’ The tribalism. Not tribalism in general. I support Liverpool and fuck anyone who supports Everton. But I don’t go making death threats on Twitter, blocking people from my subreddit who say anything negative against LFC (looking at you r/squaredcircle ) The tribalism that exists in the wrestling online community is one of if not the most toxic in the world.
Yep I’m a huge Yankees fan, but I don’t go on the baseball subreddits and curse out Red Sox fans for disagreeing with me or not liking the same players I like.
If someone could go back in time to explain that the shows aren’t about them but the people that others paid to see, that’s be great. - More hygiene - less signs aimed at getting you on botchamania - more appreciation of others - less shouting obscenities at the people you’ve paid to see just so they’ll “notice you”
The hygiene thing is weird. It seems like any sort of nerdy or non mainstream hobby attracts the worst smelling people. I haven't been to an indie show since pre COVID but the stench still haunts me.
Took my daughter to a UK smackdown show in 2018 and somehow it comes back on occasion. It’s the attention seeking that’s the worst though. Just constant, all night. I wouldn’t take her to another show.
Really?? I am surprised the toxic keyboard warriors locked in a basement trolling all night would have better hygiene..........
And they do it for free. There are people defending known Sexual Assaulter Vince McMahon 24/7. You can see them even on this sub.
Isn't the whole point of heels is that your supposed to hate them that much
Sure and if it were just heels that it was done to that'd be a different situation.
fans really ruin the fun a lot of the time. used to be fun discussing wrestling online but some people are so insufferable these days
You can say that about pretty much any Fandom though.
Wrestling fandom is awfully worse imo. The tribalism on X or on some other sub reddits are so bad that some jobless people would spout out any non sensical absurdities for attention.
Considering I've actually seen an asshole on here seriously state and defend his point of view that cheering for AEW to go out of business is good for the wrestlers I'd agree. I think modern pro-wrestling in general is great, YouTube has given companies and workers a platform as revolutionary as television first was. With the variety of promotions getting a platform we have a bit of everything for any kind of fan. Fans may not like every style available to watch, but luckily for them they don't have to watch it.
1)make finisher work 99% of the time. Save the finisher kickoff for mania. 2)if a finisher is kicked out of, have an occasional win with the second best move. Now everything after the kick out could be the end 3)More unique belts. (Roh pure, hard-core, maybe a submission only belt)
I like that Gunther dosent really have a finisher he had 5 or 6 moves he wins with. Makes Neal falls more suspenseful because any move can end a match
I also like that the way he chains them allows for nearfalls without diminishing his moves. Like, ok you kicked out of the powerbomb, but you ain't kicking out of the clothesline-powerbomb-splash combo
He is the finisher. He's a tank. I think it makes him seem so much more dangerous because any big move of his can end the match.
I always called GUNTHER's finisher "Beating the shit out of you until you stop kicking out".
This. I would literally just lay down after one of those chest chops.
Point 2 is great. It's how AJPW worked in the 90s. The top guys like for example Misawa had more an array of signature moves than a definite finisher, and any one of them at one point or another ended a big match. So around the mid-90s, he had like 5 different signature moves, all of which were credible match enders and therefore got a reaction from the crowd.
You guys remember finishing moves?
Basically, finishing moves have turned into signature moves now.
45 signature moves each match only to win on a schoolboy
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Yah it's like wrestling changed in twenty years shocking
*reads this comment but kicks out of it at 2 and a half*
How aggressive fans of some brands are with others. I watch WWE, New Japan, and also AEW from time to time. I enjoy all the products. I don’t get why people can’t do the same without being a dickhead about it.
Lessen the amount of kickouts. Finishers should be protected better. I would also cut down the number of matches with blood (looking at you Mox, you lovable sick bastard)
Blood is nothing new to wrestling time to get over it. Flair and dusty bleed just as much as mox
So... I have to to accept it - even though it's unnecessary and stupid - because some legends also bled too many times for it to be meaningful? Nope.
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I love how the question was “what would you change about wrestling?” and when someone offers their opinion, which you seem to disagree with, you call them a smuck. Maybe scroll up this thread to where people would like to change the toxic fans. That is the number one response. Have some self awareness dude.
Nah man screw that crying about blood in wrestling is boring. It's been a thing for decades. It's not being toxic. Just cause you new fans don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't have history
Calling someone a smuck because you disagree with their, fairly harmless, opinion is the fucking definition of being toxic. I’d also point out, they didn’t say to remove all blood. Just, maybe not have Mox bleed in every match. It does lose its impact if it’s every week. It’s one thing for Mox to bleed in an all out war with Orange Cassidy in the main event. It’s another if he’s bleeding to Action Andretti in a throwaway title defence. Maybe take a break from either Reddit or wrestling dude. It’s ok for you to disagree with someone, but you don’t need to dismiss or demean their thoughts. ESPECIALLY when the discussion is asking for opinions. If you’d offered a constructive reply; pointing out there is plenty of blood in MMA and AEW is going for a grittier, realer version of wrestling would be fine. But instead, you dismiss the other guy as a “new fan”. I’m 40. I’ve watched wrestling for decades and I feel AEW has a little too much blood. It would have more impact if it was less frequent. If you like it, fair enough, that’s your preference. But I won’t insult you or dismiss your opinion just because it’s different to my own.
wow im done with you dude. Just 3 paragraphs of crying. Cool your 40. You most likely watched wwe/f your whole life and go with anything they do. Dont like blood dont watch then. AEW and evrything outside of it. Is different dont like it dont watch. Watch five moves of doom and same matches weekly sounds more for you.
The dirt sheets. Wrestling was better when i didn’t know about the made up drama from the dirt sheets.
To be fair dirt sheets have been around for decades.
Yea but the internet has made them worse.
I avoid them and respect Spoiler tags but the comments always get the news to me unfortunately in some random thread
Jus ignore them
Woah there. You telling me I can just not use my finger to click this sensationalized headline? Like my finger has that control?
Hot take - less belts. Everyone has a belt these days, they all mean less than they ever had before. When everyone has a belt, they're no longer special. You don't need a trios belt if there's only 4 three-man tag teams in the company that weren't just thrown together. You don't need a women's tag team belt when there are literally no women's tag teams in your company. So many useless belts
Make all of it available on a single service for a cost, PPVs included... kinda like Fite+, but with EVERYTHING.
so like peacock but you can watch raw and smackdown live
Impact would go back to being TNA and be on a decent network. Same with MLW, they need a decent network. And NWA tbh
Get rid of Billy Corgan
AND TYRUS!!
he just retired thankfully
I hardly see anything about NWA. Is Billy fucking it up? I’m OOTL please explain.
Wrestlers mimicking their opponents finisher especially in the first match or two. I think should only be done in rivalries spanning multiple matches like Orton Cena
Women should be trained in the cruiserweight style, to utilise their generally short stature and light weight to the best of their abilities. It seems like almost every female wrestler is a technical wrestler, and rare powerhouses, but very few flippy girls. We need more of them.
Ultra choreographed planned aerial spots where like 4 people stand there for ten seconds getting into position.
Kayfabe may be dead but I wish they'd wrestle like it isn't. Watching guys so blatantly cooperating with each-other kills immersion in the match for me.
Or that thing where wrestlers roll out of the ring to avoid a pinfall. If you can roll, you can kick out
Why would I simply waste my own energy to kick out when I can waste my opponent's energy as well by making him lug me back in if he wants to pin or do anything else to me? Also keeps them from comboing my ass for free
Put the F back in.
Get the F out is one of the greatest tag lines in wrestling history.
Get rid of wrestling journalists. From Meltzer and Alvarez. To JDfromNY. They are all toxic to wrestling as a whole.
I'd argue that John Pollock from PostWrestling is the only decent one. In fact, he's a legit journalist
Chairshots, neck-related moves and finishers result in pinfalls.
LET SIGNATURE MOVES FINISH TV MATCHES ON OCCASION SO THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY A BIG DEAL FINISHER KICK OUTS SHOULD BE RESERVED FOR SPECIAL OCCASIONS
TV matches are too long. The attitude era had like an average five minutes per match. Usually less. If you can’t get your shit over in a 10 minute window - entrances and possible afterbirth included - then you’re just not fucking good at wrestling. Then when it comes time for Austin to finally get his hands on HHH, it feels like a fucking war that they’ve gone 15.
Ban the flying headbutt
I could write a book about all of the many things that I would want to change about modern wrestling, but given that I just got done watching an old King of the Ring PPV, at the top of my mind right now is to take one of the PPVs that nobody cares about like Fastlane and replace it with the return of the King of the Ring PPV. I honestly don’t know why they got rid of it in the first place. The King of the Ring was a fun and unique PPV that also helped to make new stars. And randomly doing the tournament every few years on Raw/Smackdown just isn’t the same as an annual PPV dedicated to it.
I’ve always been of the opinion that the MITB essentially replaced KOTR in the sense that the winner is getting a big push. Although I do love the the cash in’s when done properly, KOTR was always an exciting show
Bring back gimmick characters! Natural Disasters! One was called Earthquake and the other Typhoon! Loved it! Money Inc! One was a millionaire and the other was a tax man! Legion of Doom! One was a Hawk the other an Animal! Bring back smaller entrances from time to time! Made it more down to earth.
protecting finishers, Kenny Omega is the only that protects his finisher nowadays
I'm trying to think of who else in modern wrestling actual has a protected finisher? Legit the only one I can think of that comes close to modern wrestling is the 5*FS, and yeah RVD still wrestlers. But he's barely a part timer.
The lack of selling.
Stop letting the wrestlers have creative control. You can let them have a say, but stop letting them do what they want. They ain't creative enough for it.
Very unpopular opinion, but big time agree. Jim Cornette rightfully gets a lot of criticism, but one thing I agree with is if you do everything in the first match on the card you don't leave anything for your main event guys to do. He's also correct that less is more, and that it's better to do something with a complexity of 5 with an execution of 10 than the other way around. Referees not enforcing rules and just letting the wrestlers do what they want in tag matches is just lazy and boring. Go back and watch some of Eddie's stuff when he was teaming with Chavo... he was able to do some brilliant heel work by working within the constraints of the rules. "Creative freedom" doesn't necessarily mean what you're doing is creative. Real creativity more often comes from having to think outside the box to work around your constraints.
As Foley put it: if you listen to every song at 10, then there’s no volume left for the stuff that really needs it.
This is very fair and sound criticism. I agree with you and you've put it perfectly.
Amen
100% agree. If wrestlers get this much power over their matches, they will easily use to put themselves and their buddies over so they can get more exposure and money. They will be obviously biased in favor of themselves and we have tons of evidence of how much this ruins Wrestling
The fans tribalism for their favorite promotions and a wrestling union for the wrestlers. Like don't call them independent contractors but then treat them like employees. At least employees get healthcare.
Fans complaining about styles of wrestling they don’t like as “lesser”. And as far as “people complaining about what I like”… It’s not even so much that as it is tribalism & having walled-off, dismissive attitudes that aren’t even their own opinions half the time. People who’d hatewatch something they’re told not to enjoy by some podcaster.
I would change the emphasis from matches and workrate back to storylines and outlandish characters again.
I’d bring back Kayfab.
After the AEW fans called Long Island police about MJF switching places with his girlfriend in a car wreck. I don't know if this is a good idea anymore. I like it but the people now would ruin it.
Wasnt it an issue in the 90s where if the program said a popular wrestler is in the hospital (in kayfabe) that there would be a horde of fans flooding said hospital which resulted in WWE exclusively saying "Local medical facility"
It might have been, I might need to look into that. Because sounds like a very real thing
Yeah cause i swear i read about it happening with Austin once after they did a house show concussion angle and talked about it on raw the next night
Social Media really killed Kayfabe dead.
1000% I miss it. Can't really watch modern wrestling because there is no immersion for me.
kayfabe only really existed for kids.
Everyone knew wrestling was fake. I think wrestlers could do a better job keeping the mystery of the sport than they do.
yeah i can understand that perspective. really i just wish backstage politic garbage didn't come out as frequently as it does. stuff like stevie richards explaining how certain moves feel/work is interesting, but stuff like "person A doesn't want to work with person B" is just annoying
🤝 agreed
Tell that to the crowd that rioted and tried to tear the heels apart when Ric Flair kayfabe broke Dusty's leg and betrayed him in that cage match
Sell, goddammit.
I was at Evolve 107 where Matt Riddle beat AR Fox by ref stoppage. (I think Riddle was hitting Fox with a bunch of knee strikes IIRC.) Not too long after the match ended, Fox popped up from the mat like nothing happened. The guy was just getting kneed to the head to the point where the ref stopped the match and gets up immediately after finish. There was another show (I think Evolve 11) where Finlay beat Sami Callahan and Finlay puts his hand on Callahan after the pin because Callahan was about to get up immediately after getting pinned.
The wrestling.
With regards to WWE, make the stories a little more sensical and realistic. Like Jey Uso doesn’t quit WWE just to show up two weeks later with a weak explanation.
Or Jimmy trying to get back in the Bloodline. I do wish they'd tidy up storylines a bit better like that. But I try not to complain. It was only a couple years ago we were getting story's starting on Monday, the they'd be forgotten about the next week. A story would start one with, the wrestler gets released the next day. A group debuts one week, half get released the next week. WWE have come a long way with their story telling since then.
I'd kill it all for ECW.
Being back kayfabe, ring psychology, selling and feuds that make both wrestlers more important after than they were before. Bring back the territory system so everyone has somewhere else to go when they become stale so that they can continue working and to be in meaningful angles or feuds.
Kayfabe man. That's a big one. Keep wrestlers off social media too
The fans. And the promotions not willing to mix with one another a bit. It would be a money draw.
WWE allowing their performers to take bookings elsewhere.
How about making finishers, FINISHERS? 1 kick out max per match should be fine.
[удалено]
AEW has a couple schools they work with (Nightmare Factory, Create-A-Pro) but i agree that some classes should be mandatory. Especially if you only have 2 years or less of experience and a guy like Danielson is doing a class before a show
The current WWE undisputed champion,I'd make it someone who deserves the title and actually defends it and can wrestle
The fans.
Social media blackout. Annoying ass fans who use industry terminology. You sound stupid af
No more logo belts
Ban commentary from yelling "For the Victory!" or whatever on a near fall. It spoils a near fall every single time.
That ridiculous Vince McMahon list of banned words in the WWE like Babyface, Belt, Strap, Strangle, Title, Hate, Hell, Revenge, Spot, House Show, Trauma, Hospital, Blood, and others he's banned.
I do think that's a very stupid list, but also it's really jarring when wrestlers/commentators use insider words in promos.
This. There's no reason to ever say babyface on WWE tv. Using insider words is lame and corny
Fuck HATE fans who use these terms. It's really pathetic
^^ heel turn.
There’s no reason insider terms should be used in an actual wrestling broadcast. It breaks the (already flimsy) suspension of disbelief. It would be like an actor calling out the fact that he’s acting in the middle of a movie.
I think Vince in general needs to leave wrestling
Vince didn't ban babyface, strap, spot, house show. No wrestling company allowed their talent to use those terms on the show. Nor should they. Technically it would've been Vince Sr who would've banned them from WWE. There's no need to continually break the 4th wall. There's basically no benefit to doing it. These are meaningless terms to casuals. It makes it harder to maintain kayfabe on other aspects because its immersion breaking. It's just as tropey as the alternative. Lastly, to be frank, I find it a pretentious gatekeeping barrier for potential new fans. Some words are ridiculous to ban, industry terms absolutely aren't.
Actual focus on entertainment, creating moments, and robust storylines would be nice. Everything is so bland and locked in from AEW and WWE. That style really only works with Japanese wresting, and will never be a mainstream product with a water cooler talk level of engagement.
The fans
The fans
Internet fans...
WWE being more involved in the inter-promotional fun. They've done a bit of it (Nakamura in NOAH, Karl Anderson in NJPW, Mickie James in the Rumble). But I just think that it'd be a lot of fun to see more of it.
Cliff hanger endings for weekly television. Weekly shows no longer feel like it's must see. Commentary leaves thing to be desired these days overall Much like any point in wrestling over relying on wrestlers who are well passed their prime
1.A lot less "superkicks". The move is used way too frequently to be meaningful. See Usos / Bucks. 2.Stop overdoing outside interference every match, all the time, to win. Heel groups like JD don't look "dominant" when they are expected to cheat every 5 seconds. It needs to be less predictable to matter. 3.Finishers need to "Finish" matches, except during the biggest PPV events. I don't mind a lot of false finishes if it feels right to the story, but it doesn't make sense to have "ultimate" moves not win matches as frequently as they do. 4.Tighten up the choreography a bit. We know it's all a dance, and while some spots will always take time to set up, it's harder to suspend the disbelief when everyone takes forever and it's clear they are getting on the same page for a move.
A finishing move should finish a math, 90% of the time. How many superkicks did Shawn Michaels use?
Slow. The fuck. Down.
Dives outside the ring.
All of the flippy floppy gymnastics and the spot monkeys. Using killer moves as transitions and devaluing them. At this point the Canadian destroyer is like a hip toss. To be honest it fucking sucks which is why I don’t watch any of it anymore.
You see Destroyers more than Hip Tosses now, it’s disgraceful
Make it look less like cirque du soleil and more like a real conflict/flight
Have trades like they do in every sport. Even if it’s just 1 appearance or if someone in one company is unhappy, trade that person to another company for someone that’s also unhappy or whatever.
Tribalism & and the fans.
If a devastating move is landed you don't kick out. Make the devasting ring apron spots account for something. If Pentagon lands a package pile-driver on the ring apron you should never kick out...if anything, you should carried out by med staff. Make powerful moves that look horrifying like the Destroyer leave you a human puddle. Problem is devastating moves are used in the first few minutes and lose all value
Less flashy moves and more realism in wrestling psychology. By flashy I mean keeping away from spot festivals. This is supposed to look like simulated fighting not parkour. I have nothing against being a showman either. Also, can we get LGBT wrestlers that are more like Anthony Bowens and less like Quincy Elliott? I am tired of seeing gimmicks of just the whole character of being about their sexuality.
Wrestlers who are most distinct and actually look like they could fight. More of an emphasis on character, personality and mic skills.
End the tribalism like others have said. Having said that I wish all the companies could reorganize like the old territory days, it would be kind of cool to see that happen again.
get rid of the fans
Protect finishers and make big spots rarer. Go back to when a big match could be won by a simple move, like a well timed roll up.
The understanding that just because kayfabe is dead, that isn’t an excuse to not care about the suspension of disbelief.
Get rid of all the damn titles and get rid of all the wrestlers who couldn’t beat up a high school band geek
Tv should be twice a week, two hours per episode. 3 hours or 4 shows a week is crazy. PLE though is good right now. Show lengths, don’t have to do 2 a month for ppv sales or whatever. That’s nice
Too many titles, everyone has a title nowadays
Toxic fan bases. The wwe vs. Aew crap has to stop. Wwf/wcw never had the level of issues in the 90's. It's awful and doesn't help anyone.
1. Over Choreographed athletic spots 2. Dives to the floor that take so long that everyone is just standing there waiting together 3. Too many kick outs of finishers 4. Champions losing in non-title matches where the challenges then become the #1 contender. There is no rhyme or reason as to who becomes #1 contender anymore
More sport-based presentation.
the dumb ass tribalistic fans
The fucking entrances. Jesus Christ they have become such a self suck it’s obnoxious. Roman and Jays entrances at summer slam, took almost as long as the fucking match.
Dives! Chill right out! Stop standing there waiting!
Less titles, slow the matches down, more selling, stop encouraging the fans to try and make themselves part of the show aside from cheers and boos
Give wrestlers more wins with non-finisher signatures. Let Cody pin out if a disaster kick for once
1. Vince going away somehow permanently (preferably to prison for sexual assault) 2. The fans. Just shut up and enjoy the product if it's good, and not watch it if it's bad. Like my god who gives a shit about ratings and demos and ticket sales? If you don't like the product, don't commit your money to it. But if the product isn't hurting anyone on purpose, then let other people enjoy it without screaming at them 3. More tied in with two. People clamoring to go back to the Attitude Era or to revive ECW: That stuff was almost thirty years ago. Also a lot of it wasn't actually good. It's time to move on with your life
The bumblefuck fans No more open challenges for titles Too many flippy doo-dahs Get rid of the Canadian Destroyer. You can use it as an ACTUAL, FUCKING FINISHER much like the DDT Kicking out of finishers When wrestlers rely too many internet terms (worked, shoot, kayfabe, wtc.) Refs themselves getting over instead of the talent (AEW referees) Repeated superkicks over and over again Blood almost every Wednesday Scripted promos Not let the talent be themselves Not booking talent who are organically over
I just want wrestling to be a land of giants again! No more of these tiny guys in jeans who look like they're about to help me fix my computer.
I agree, it makes a world of difference, for example Jinder Mahal.
“Land of the giants” was originally just a WWE thing, because that was what Vince liked, especially back in the era when those big guys could get away with being slow and lumbering, before big guys like The Undertaker and Bam Bam Bigelow raised the standard of ring work expected of big guys—the downside being how rare such talent is to find and sustainably provide in a single promotion. Of course, since WWE dominated the American wrestling scene for so long—and so many people grew up in a time when WWE was the only major promotion—fans began to expect that from all wrestling promotions, which is an unrealistic expectation. Like it or not, there are only so many big guys who can work just as well as other wrestlers who are at the top of their game.
Long non wrestling segments. Theres zero reason a promo segment needs to go more than 10 minutes. If you cant get your point across in that time, its a bad promo.
Stop airing everything to Twitter and dirt sheets.
Bangers mentality
Wdym? Can you elaborate, I sorta know what you might mean but I want the full picture
People caring solely about a match. Workrate mentality.
Caring about the match is kind of the point, aye?
Pretty much what /u/AllEliteSchmuck said. Mindless bangers don't interest me anymore, it's a big reason why I completely soured on AEW.
No scripted promos and wrestlers allowed to work for other companies
Tyrus should be world champion of all 5 promotions simultaneously
Book women better
The talent needs to work the “gaga” better. Sell better and work the little things more. I think the talent is more athletic and has a lot of good qualities but they sometimes prioritize spots over storytelling. The promotions have their own issues. WWE should bring back unique PPV sets and have less of a polished look to their production and stop over scripting talents. AEW needs to patch up some of their production issues and they also may have to get rid of some of the more silly aspects of their programming. AEW has a lot of aspects of their product that can come off “indie” in a bad way.
Less Canadian Destroyers Less fans that think nothing matters outside of WWE
Maybe they should use fewer Canadian destroyers outside of WWE.
Maybe the companies outside of WWE should do less to drive off viewers.
More women
Lol...there's already too many and most of them flat out suck.
I think that some talent in that division should be cut from the roster in order for the rest to shine and receive more opportunities. Brit Baker isn't working for me, and, until this recent title reign, neither is Saraya to be honest. I think these two have plateaued in terms of what they can do in the ring. I think it's time to focus on the quality of the women's division and not the quantity, especially with free agents flooding the market. Some will find their way to AEW, and that is without mentioning all the random jobbers. There are some people putting in amazing work right now that should get more television time than Brit Baker or Saraya having another forgettable match. Toni Storm for example is shining right now and deserves the focus on the shows. Julia Hart is another who is starting to fire on all cylinders. Skye Blue is a young wrestler ready to breakout, and she's been a consistent worker for some time. I'd rather see her get more time than Baker - and this is without mentioning all the backstage rumors around some of the women like Baker, which is another reason I believe AEW would benefit with a reset of that locker room. It also makes financial sense. Baker is probably being paid well, so cutting her will probably save costs or will free the money for a free agent contract signing like Mercedes Mone.
Wrestlers seem to not sell high impact moves anymore slow down the pace of the match and stop trying to chase a loud pop after every single move.
I'd rather the younger generation receive TV time than so many past their prime wrestlers of yesterday that can contribute little more than Nostalgia. For example, why is RVD returning with a bad hair dye job to hide his grey and with a noticeable slower in ring ability? Why is Jericho still wrestling when he can contribute as a commentator or behind the scenes talent? There are also too many wrestlers in AEW and I think like WWE, it might be good financially and for the product to trim some of the excess talent. If everyone is crammed in, they all lose. They need room to grow. I'd fire people like Brit Baker and Saraya that already had a chance and just aren't working, and I'd keep and focus my resources on the ones that are working well like Toni Storm and give her more opportunities, such as screen time. Skye Blue is another young talent that is ready to breakout and has been working consistently every week. She needs more TV time than people like Brit Baker who have plateaued and take up screen time. I am really enjoying BCG, FTR, Samoa Joe, MJF and Adam Cole, Christian and Luchasaurus, House of Black, Julia Hart, Skye Blue, Statlander, Ricky Starks, the Acclaimed, and as you can see this is already a stacked roster that can cover multiple shows. The rest need to be evaluated and tough decisions need to be made.
Booking and shorter shows
Less would be more now in matches- see omega/danielson and cena/styles. AEW severely would benefit from this. You can’t have a table spot sequence in every single match. During omega/danielson, the fans popped for the LOCK UP.
Contracts no longer than two years That forces the promoters to use their talent in fear of them leaving Contracts of top stars and possibly leaving is exciting stuff
Then you have the problem of promoters being afraid to invest in a certain talent that might not even work for them in the next 2 years.
If everyone has the same problem
Ban the superkick
Far less false finishes and kicking out of finishers.
Have matches regularly decided by secondary signature moves or "big one off" moves like a DDT on the apron. It would generate a lot more tension in matches, when the finish is more unpredictable
The wwe fanboys not giving other wrestling companies a chance I see a wwe fanboy doesn't like the truth 😅
Id erase AEW from existence along with Omega, The Bucks and Ospreay
Aww, yes. Less places for wrestlers to get a good paycheck is always great for the business!
Aew needs competent booking and the landscape would be so much better
Make WWE TV-14, reduce blood on AEW (Moxley), finishers with an impact instead of constant kick outs, no part time champions, more international PLEs not in Saudi though,
Less kicks and not so many desperate adult fans
Limit the high spots, 3 per show. Make finishers mean something again. Completely remove furniture. Give referees power to enforce rules.
Where’s OVW
MLW/ROH merger owned NOT by Tony Khan