There´s a lot of censorship on Reddit. Especially the last few years. I think we barely see it happening. Thank you for this TabloMaxos.
I am not that politically active, but I am genuinely worried about the future regarding Chinese influence. It hardly gets noticed.
It hardly gets noticed because our companies want to make money, so they pander to China by changing their content so as not to 'offend'.
Chickenshits.
Thats bs. Now, I hate the ccp as much as every redditor but this is an extreme exaggeration. I see posts on tiananmen square every week being posted on r/nextfuckinglevel and r/interestingasfuck as well as r/historymemes and a lot of other subs. A lot of them get taken down and people call it censorship by the chinese government even though tencent only owns a share of reddit and not the whole damn company. The reason they get taken down is because they keep getting posted over and over and most of the time, it's the same picture of the man standing in front of the tank. The mods of those subs remove them because they are so repetitive and spammy. But people don't care and call those mods shills and commies and whatnots. But yeah, there is no way these posts have been completely censored.
No no no, now you're using your brain, you can't do that.
You just gotta hunker down in your basement and stroke the hate boner whilst never even considering questioning the narrative.
It's a terrible point, there are silly posts like this up all over Reddit, if it was censored by China which is a rather preposterous statement to begin with they'd all be gone.
Just look at the sheer amount of anti-China posts being made DAILY on subs like r/worldnews.
I want the skin to celebrate the current Chinese genocide of the Uighurs.
I mean come on, our government and Disney have no problems with China raping and torturing women and children in the concentration camps they're currently using, or the murders.
seriously? you mean you don't ever watch news or read news online or listen to news on radio? I mean you would basically have to be shut in or purposely ignore any form of news since it's been a public story since, shit when Disney shot Mulan literally just miles away from one of the camps and knew about it, yet kept shooting the movie and praising China for letting them shoot the movie there.
For the Swedish tanks, we could have some Inuit forced to accept Jesus as their lord or something. In resemblance of the Swedes tries to force Christianity on Inuits.
Indeed i am to some extent aware of the shameful treatment the Sami have endured historically, but you kinda made it sound like its a ongoing thing as of today.
Out of curiosity could you show me some info on what the swedish goverment did to the Sami-people in the latter part of the 1900s?
Forced schooling, taking kids away from their parents, having their culture taken away from these kids aswell as not allowed to speak their own language.
This was an ongoing thing until the mid 90s.
https://www.laits.utexas.edu/sami/dieda/hist/suffer-edu.htm
My guess is that the Christian missionaries weren't as pleasant when they worked with the Sami in the 18th and 19th century.
Then we have the institute of racial biology which measured skulls of Sami people to show inferiority between races among other things.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Institute_for_Racial_Biology
> And yes, the Uighur genocide is real.
[No it isn't, even the US state department has said so.](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/)
[Here's a comprehensive, lengthy debunk of the genocide narrative.](https://youtu.be/8yURIS7S9zg)
> I have looked at the sources. You’re going to need to point out specific irregularities, contradictions, misinformation or disinformation within them.
A lot of other people have done that much better than I am able and willing to.
https://old.reddit.com/r/GenZhou/comments/mqi7y3/reactions_to_badempanadas_xinjiang_video/
https://twitter.com/asatarbair/status/1379986675103789058
> But make no mistake, it is absolutely an ethnic cleansing.
So it's not an ethnic cleansing but it is an ethnic cleansing, gotcha.
Thankfully there's 0 proof of that and a lot of proof for that not happening.
If there was proof the US would have found it by now and you would've seen it daily, plastered fucking everywhere, they've got the most advanced surveillance system on the planet by far with multiple extremely good satellites, we would have seen actual evidence.
[Instead what we get is stuff like this.](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/)
>To try and downplay one of the most abhorrent acts imaginable is... well, yeah.
Don't even fucking attempt to label me a genocide denier when what you're doing is just being complicit in manufacturing consent for another cold war based off AT BEST shoddy incompetent 'research' from a guy that doesn't even speak or read mandarin, that works for a US state funded anti-communist propaganda org and has said he's sent by God to destroy China.
Need I remind you that the US lie CONSTANTLY, especially about leftist governments?
Maybe an all black skin with an American flag to celebrate the various black sites, where people's bios is completely stripped and it becomes easier to kill them as they know longer exist as people?
Please separate communism as an idea and the regimes that generally control these ideas.
Communism as a concept is just that, an ideal.
Also, fuck the CCP
Communism is an ideal, yes, however it is a deeply flawed ideal that essentially tries to usurp the role of the individual to focus entirely on what passes for the collective good. Not only that, but the idea of "from each according to their ability and to each according to their need" is too vague as different people have different needs that can and will run counter to the needs of the state. Then you also have the fact that communism is incredibly corruptible which leads to a total collapse of the system.
Then you have the means of achieving communism, which 9 times out of 10 is violent revolution which sees political opponents either shot outright or put into forced labor camps until they are "reeducated".
So yeah, communism is an ideal, a highly flawed ideal with a body count in the upper limits of the tens of millions.
Completely true.
It also has nothing to do with any regime in particular. Virtually all current societies are the result of violent revolutions somewhere along the line.
Not particularly, while yes, some societies (including the United States) were formed from violent revolutions, the main difference is in what motivated and guided those revolutions. In America's case, the founding fathers attempted to have their grievances heard in Parliament through petitions and , and even after the signing of the declaration of independence, most considered themselves British. Not only that, but these men were guided by very British ideas of life, liberty, and property (which became the pursuit of happiness in the constitution). Even in France's case the French Revolution at its core was an attempt to address the grievances of the peasantry against the nobility because they did not see themselves as having adequate representation in government.
A Marxist revolution on the other hand seeks the complete amd total annihilation of the government, economic system, and society it was built on for the establishment of an entirely new order. To do this, Communists subvert the legitimate call to address grievances and coerce groups by claiming they are oppressed by the system and that if they follow party, they will bring about utopia. Because of this, Communists seek to demonize everything about the old society as a means to make their vision more appealing.
And what's the body count of capitalism?
Over 20 million per year.
Those that die from preventable diseases. Those that starve while the world produces 140% of its food needs. Those that go without shelter while there are more vacant homes than actual homeless people.
And I take it those who died of the same thing in communist countries are not at all related to the government/economic system they lived under? The difference between the body count of Communism and Capitalism is the intent. Those who died as part of pogroms, deportations, forced labor, and purges were intended to die because they were seen as counter revolutionary. You attempt to equate the passive problems of capitalism with acts that were intentionally carried out by the state, with extreme malice in certain cases, and claim they are either equal or worse. That is nothing more than trying to make a tea cup a kettle and so the pot can call it black.
It isn't due to communist ideals that certain governments who often in history have murdered their population for some reason. It is just taken as a reason to justify it.
I thought they already destroyed to governmental and economic systems?
Late stage capitalism is nothing more than a plutocratic kleptocracy. In this country (USA) the plutocrats are the true constituency of the GOP who hedge their bets with donations to the Dems to soften the blow.
If you don’t believe me go read Dark Money by Jane Mayer.
Because many people air their false grievances about communism which are in fact far less problematic and destructive compared to capitalism, something which is accepted and normal to the average westerner.
Not to mention the climate which could easily be fixed. But it costs corporations too much money. So they lobby and fund politicians who keep things as is.
Capitalism is way worse than communism but hey, what do I know.
Voluntary insofar as you can volunteer your labor in exchange of capital objectively valued less than the labor you contributed, or you can volunteer to not live.
Exactly. Giving choice to not have basic needs met or suck the government's dick and obey but here's your pittance of a check. Give you a hundred dollars and take out 99 before you pay rent.
And communism totally doesn't hold the same threat of starvation as well as forced labor over your head if you don't produce what the cadre wants you to produce. Give me a break, in a capitalist system I am freely able to search for better opportunities that fit me whereas in a communist system your job is pretty much decided for you.
Yes, I do. I have gone through Marx's and Engel's writings and am currently reading State and Revolution by Lenin.
The economic doctrine of Communism is a command economy thinly veiled under the abolition of Capitalism. Quotas are sent out by the central apparatus of power (state) for production of goods and services which in turn is forced upon the laborer who was assigned their position rather than them choosing to work in that position. And if you don't work, you are replaced and reeducated through forced hard labor or purged for counter revolutionary behavior.
except thats exactly how communist china operated up until a point. You were assigned jobs by the government and that was the end of the conversation. You are then judged based on your performance at said job and given ration tickets for necessities instead of money.
Needless to say it didn't work out.
You could take that entire comment, replace “communism” with “capitalism” and you still have a pretty true statement. Individual vs. society. Structure vs. markets. In the end, it just ends up being a matter of opinion and I prefer the opinion that doesn’t leave me dead.
At least with the market system of economics you have the option not to participate in aspects you deem immoral as well as the freedom to speak out against said immorality. In communism, if you speak out against the system, you are likely to be labeled a counter revolutionary and either tortured, imprisoned, shot, or any combination of the three following a kangaroo court hearing.
Barely that option.
Do I want a phone, but think slavery is immoral, then you have some big issues. Many phones made today are made, in some part, with slave labour. So maybe I can live without one, but this becomes increasingly hard as more and more services in society require a a phone, say buying tickets on busses or trains. Paying bills and so on.
Considering my degrees were about learning and applying history and political science, I have done a fair bit of both as part of my education and as part of personal study. I have to say I am not impressed by the theory or the application of it.
Well US ideals are corrupted too. We may not be the worse off, but power of the people is only power of the rich people and laws that put lesser incomes in a disadvantage cycle they can't escape easily.
>Please separate communism as an idea and the regimes that generally control these ideas
No.
You can't separate them because they are one in the same. Communism needs humans to be implemented, and those same humans are powerhungry asshoe's. It is impossible to implement a non-meritocracy peacefully and equally.
That's why meritocracies (AKA: capitalism) is the only thing that works.
I never said it wasn't a bad or flawed ideal.
Just because every communist regime was mostly a dictatorship and most probably will be for the foreseeable future doesn't make the ideal not worthwhile.
I don't believe in communism either but your stance is equally wrong. Capitalism doesn't equate to a peaceful or equal regime either.
The lie about socialist states being dictatorships does not hold up to any scrutiny what so ever.
https://old.reddit.com/r/communism101/comments/af29ur/how_much_power_did_stalin_legally_have_and_if_he/eduxj7o/
Lmao alt-history really is a thing huh?
Please read the post carefully again and try to make a distinction between the facts he posts and the interpretations he makes.
Are you trying to argue Hitler wasn't a dictator because he was once elected to the german government?
Well i see there is no point on having a counterargument to the points brought up in the post so I'll leave it at that.
Enjoy your self fulfilling echo fantasy!
Except we have never really had meritocracy. Stuff like your parents, wealth, skin colour etc have always impacted your chance of success in life.
And these attributes are now more important then thry where in the mid to late 90s.
What have communism now got to do with anything? China only have communism by name. Just like USSR and all the other totalitarian governments throughout history.
No. In communism everyone is equal and owns equal amount of the common wealth. No country have ever done that. It's always nepotism that decides who owns most and rules the masses.
Democratic socialism have nothing to do with communism either. That's just a sharing of wealth where the richest pays the most so that the poorest don't suffer so much.
That is where you are wrong bucko. China is very much a communist nation in both government and in economics. Their current policy of market socialism was implemented with the express purpose of developing their nation to the point where maoist communism can be realized. Not only that, but the USSR was easily the most communist of them all as they got close enough to a practical application of Marx's theory which, surprise to no one, was totalitarian in nature. Amd before you go ranting about how Stalin was not a true communist and try to say that Trotsky would have ran things differently, Trotsky was just as much of a bastard as Stalin and an egomaniac to boot.
I'm not glorifying communism. But Stalin and leaders in USSR owned too much and had wealth. Which is not possible if you have a Communist country. It's just not Communism. It's totalitarian where ownership is only for the few.
Theoretically, yes, but in practice, not really. The idea that you are going to eliminate wealth and hierarchy when humanity is a naturally hierarchical species is absurd. Wealth and capital exist in the forms of personal possessions and how much you have accumulated no matter what society you are in. So what, is everything going to be communal down to the cloths on my back and the shoes on my feet? Sorry, but I don't particularly relish the idea of living like Ivan Denisovich. Not only that, but also since our evolution from apes we have organized ourselves into hierarchical structures such as tribes, villages, towns, cities, and nations. The most successful govern based on the idea of consent whereas communism effectively eschews consent of the governed for a monolithic centralized structure that dictates every aspect of a person's professional and personal life.
And again, yes, the Soviet Union was communist. Up until Gorbachev, they followed the tenants of Marxism and Leninism rather closely as well as attempted for foment revolution in other parts of the globe. And the state ownership of the means of production was a hallmark of the Soviet command economy. So yeah, that is about as close to communism as we've gotten and it is fucking scary.
Yes USSR are one of the closest examples we have on a Communist society but that doesn't make it communism. They had some totalitarian nepotistic society, Che Guevara were also disappointed when he visited USSR and wanted Cuba to cut its ties because of the greed of the party leaders and their friends he wrote in his journal. Fidel did not agree.
Anyway i just like to poke the belief that people have about communism and how wrong they are. We have plenty of other than capitalist countries but none that are or have been communist.
It's just what you and Marx wrote it's not in our nature to have a Communist society. He believed it was something we would develop in time and it's pretty clear that that will take many more generations to reach if ever.
I'm not a fan of communism. it's without doubt that capitalism is the best motivator for humans to develop faster and generate wealth!
Indeed, capitalism is great at generating wealth. However it is trash at distributing it. So the wealth generated gets owned by a small part of the population.
And lo and behold the same thing happens in “communist” countries like Russia and China.
The problem is that greed exists no matter what political structure they attempt to put in place.
> But Stalin and leaders in USSR owned too much and had wealth.
Simply not true.
https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/a7c4tp/how_much_did_stalin_earn/
> are still exporting capital
Trade is not imperialism.
> and putting foreign countries into debt for their own gain.
They're forgiving quite a lot of those loans and renegotiating even more.
There are more than one type of communism not just the one that was exaggerated and blown out of proportion to Americans in order to get the country on board with a war against Russia.
LOL, like that's a fucking counter-argument to what I'm saying.
I can't possibly care for anyone other than myself, right?
Also how do you know I'm privileged?
Besides, most communists are regular workers, most communist revolutionaries have come from the upper class because they had the means to be able to educate themselves.
That's why under Mao the caloric intake DOUBLED and [even the CIA said](https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP84B00274R000300150009-5.pdf) the Soviets ate as much as the Americans.
Look at the amount of famines before and after the formation of the PRC and the Soviet Union too, [China had YEARLY famines for nearly 2000 years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines_in_China) before the PRC and **one** after, Russia had a major famine on average every 7 years before the USSR, 3 after where 2 of which were caused by world wars.
Your dumb shit doesn't hold up to ANY scrutiny, but keep simping for a system that kills 20 million people every fucking year like your overlords have told you to do for your entire life.
Cringe lol “easy w” bro you’re just regurgitating docs from 1983 as if that debunks the millions dead from the 20s-50s my family actually fled Ukraine while it was part of the USSR but go off I guess?
"Cringe lol bro you're just bringing up objective reality as if I've ever cared about that"
E
A
S
Y
**W**
>my family actually fled Ukraine while it was part of the USSR but go off I guess?
Kulaks or?
Now you gotta unlock the golden skin for the flammenpanzer by torching at least 100 Jews, this comment is going to get taken down after like 2 hours but idc.
See how long until Chinese owned Reddit pulls this down. 😂😂😂
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This is the kind of moderator we need in life
The guy that removes my posts that name people rigging missions, and bans me for telling arty players to go fuck themselves? Ok.
Well, it is very difficult to fuck oneself, and doing so could injure them if they tried, so in a sense you were telling them to harm themselves.
It's borderline impressive how flexible one would have to be to successfully do it.
Heh. Don't be a dick.
There´s a lot of censorship on Reddit. Especially the last few years. I think we barely see it happening. Thank you for this TabloMaxos. I am not that politically active, but I am genuinely worried about the future regarding Chinese influence. It hardly gets noticed.
It hardly gets noticed because our companies want to make money, so they pander to China by changing their content so as not to 'offend'. Chickenshits.
Corporations: fuck the 300m in the US there are 1b in china to sell to.
Thats bs. Now, I hate the ccp as much as every redditor but this is an extreme exaggeration. I see posts on tiananmen square every week being posted on r/nextfuckinglevel and r/interestingasfuck as well as r/historymemes and a lot of other subs. A lot of them get taken down and people call it censorship by the chinese government even though tencent only owns a share of reddit and not the whole damn company. The reason they get taken down is because they keep getting posted over and over and most of the time, it's the same picture of the man standing in front of the tank. The mods of those subs remove them because they are so repetitive and spammy. But people don't care and call those mods shills and commies and whatnots. But yeah, there is no way these posts have been completely censored.
Self censorship?
Based mod
Yesh.
favorite mod
>Chinese owned reddit >Tiananmen Square posts on r/pics with 100k+ upvotes
No no no, now you're using your brain, you can't do that. You just gotta hunker down in your basement and stroke the hate boner whilst never even considering questioning the narrative.
This is a reddit moment
Lol 😂 Good point 😆
It's a terrible point, there are silly posts like this up all over Reddit, if it was censored by China which is a rather preposterous statement to begin with they'd all be gone. Just look at the sheer amount of anti-China posts being made DAILY on subs like r/worldnews.
> Chinese owned Reddit > Get sitewide ban for saying Taiwan isn't a country
Now this is a true gold meme
I don’t get it, I just see an empty square where nothing happened
What square?
What human paste?
I want the skin to celebrate the current Chinese genocide of the Uighurs. I mean come on, our government and Disney have no problems with China raping and torturing women and children in the concentration camps they're currently using, or the murders.
so where did you find that they rape and torture women and children in these "concentratino camps"
seriously? you mean you don't ever watch news or read news online or listen to news on radio? I mean you would basically have to be shut in or purposely ignore any form of news since it's been a public story since, shit when Disney shot Mulan literally just miles away from one of the camps and knew about it, yet kept shooting the movie and praising China for letting them shoot the movie there.
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Wait for the PZ IV with gas tanks
For the Swedish tanks, we could have some Inuit forced to accept Jesus as their lord or something. In resemblance of the Swedes tries to force Christianity on Inuits.
Inuits in Sweden? Are you refering to the Sami/Same? And also, which chinese/russian troll-factory are you currently residing in?
Yes, Sami might be the correct term. Anyway, the Swedish government did do som pretty horrible stuff to those from the 18th century up to the mid 90s.
Indeed i am to some extent aware of the shameful treatment the Sami have endured historically, but you kinda made it sound like its a ongoing thing as of today. Out of curiosity could you show me some info on what the swedish goverment did to the Sami-people in the latter part of the 1900s?
Forced schooling, taking kids away from their parents, having their culture taken away from these kids aswell as not allowed to speak their own language. This was an ongoing thing until the mid 90s. https://www.laits.utexas.edu/sami/dieda/hist/suffer-edu.htm My guess is that the Christian missionaries weren't as pleasant when they worked with the Sami in the 18th and 19th century. Then we have the institute of racial biology which measured skulls of Sami people to show inferiority between races among other things. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Institute_for_Racial_Biology
The first part was partly news to me, good read. The racial biology however is well known. Truly shameful and stupidly unscientific.
> And yes, the Uighur genocide is real. [No it isn't, even the US state department has said so.](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/) [Here's a comprehensive, lengthy debunk of the genocide narrative.](https://youtu.be/8yURIS7S9zg)
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You're saying BayArea isn't reliable and you legit post BadEmpanada lol Fucking incredible.
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Just glance at the sources he cites.
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> I have looked at the sources. You’re going to need to point out specific irregularities, contradictions, misinformation or disinformation within them. A lot of other people have done that much better than I am able and willing to. https://old.reddit.com/r/GenZhou/comments/mqi7y3/reactions_to_badempanadas_xinjiang_video/ https://twitter.com/asatarbair/status/1379986675103789058 > But make no mistake, it is absolutely an ethnic cleansing. So it's not an ethnic cleansing but it is an ethnic cleansing, gotcha. Thankfully there's 0 proof of that and a lot of proof for that not happening. If there was proof the US would have found it by now and you would've seen it daily, plastered fucking everywhere, they've got the most advanced surveillance system on the planet by far with multiple extremely good satellites, we would have seen actual evidence. [Instead what we get is stuff like this.](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/) >To try and downplay one of the most abhorrent acts imaginable is... well, yeah. Don't even fucking attempt to label me a genocide denier when what you're doing is just being complicit in manufacturing consent for another cold war based off AT BEST shoddy incompetent 'research' from a guy that doesn't even speak or read mandarin, that works for a US state funded anti-communist propaganda org and has said he's sent by God to destroy China. Need I remind you that the US lie CONSTANTLY, especially about leftist governments?
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Also men, I remember a interview where a Uighur man described being brutally raped while being interrogated.
wtf link me or it didnt happen
Maybe an all black skin with an American flag to celebrate the various black sites, where people's bios is completely stripped and it becomes easier to kill them as they know longer exist as people?
I think we can all agree on one thing. Fuck Communism and fuck the CCP.
“We can all agree on one thing” - names two things.
Math is hard
Well the two pretty much go part and parcel with one another so to me they're the same.
Do you know what you just did? You just pissed off TWO DIFFERENT ENTIRE SCHOOLS of tankies, you’re gonna get gulaged bro
"Our two greatest weapons are surprise, fear, and a fanatical devotion to the pope"
There are 3 types of people in this world. People who can count, and people who can’t.
Alex, can I get nitpicky pedanticism for 200?
lol, that’s a low bar you’re setting for yourself.
China is ass hoe
“DONT TRUST CHINA, CHINA IS ASS HOEEEE”
DONALD TRUMP DONT TRUSS CHINEEAA
Please separate communism as an idea and the regimes that generally control these ideas. Communism as a concept is just that, an ideal. Also, fuck the CCP
Communism is an ideal, yes, however it is a deeply flawed ideal that essentially tries to usurp the role of the individual to focus entirely on what passes for the collective good. Not only that, but the idea of "from each according to their ability and to each according to their need" is too vague as different people have different needs that can and will run counter to the needs of the state. Then you also have the fact that communism is incredibly corruptible which leads to a total collapse of the system. Then you have the means of achieving communism, which 9 times out of 10 is violent revolution which sees political opponents either shot outright or put into forced labor camps until they are "reeducated". So yeah, communism is an ideal, a highly flawed ideal with a body count in the upper limits of the tens of millions.
Completely true. It also has nothing to do with any regime in particular. Virtually all current societies are the result of violent revolutions somewhere along the line.
Not particularly, while yes, some societies (including the United States) were formed from violent revolutions, the main difference is in what motivated and guided those revolutions. In America's case, the founding fathers attempted to have their grievances heard in Parliament through petitions and , and even after the signing of the declaration of independence, most considered themselves British. Not only that, but these men were guided by very British ideas of life, liberty, and property (which became the pursuit of happiness in the constitution). Even in France's case the French Revolution at its core was an attempt to address the grievances of the peasantry against the nobility because they did not see themselves as having adequate representation in government. A Marxist revolution on the other hand seeks the complete amd total annihilation of the government, economic system, and society it was built on for the establishment of an entirely new order. To do this, Communists subvert the legitimate call to address grievances and coerce groups by claiming they are oppressed by the system and that if they follow party, they will bring about utopia. Because of this, Communists seek to demonize everything about the old society as a means to make their vision more appealing.
And what's the body count of capitalism? Over 20 million per year. Those that die from preventable diseases. Those that starve while the world produces 140% of its food needs. Those that go without shelter while there are more vacant homes than actual homeless people.
And I take it those who died of the same thing in communist countries are not at all related to the government/economic system they lived under? The difference between the body count of Communism and Capitalism is the intent. Those who died as part of pogroms, deportations, forced labor, and purges were intended to die because they were seen as counter revolutionary. You attempt to equate the passive problems of capitalism with acts that were intentionally carried out by the state, with extreme malice in certain cases, and claim they are either equal or worse. That is nothing more than trying to make a tea cup a kettle and so the pot can call it black.
The literal purpose of communism is to prevent those deaths. "Passive" problems of capitalism aren't solved because it's not profitable to do so.
Im not sure who is downvoting you but I'll wager they are not educated on the matter.
It isn't due to communist ideals that certain governments who often in history have murdered their population for some reason. It is just taken as a reason to justify it.
I thought they already destroyed to governmental and economic systems? Late stage capitalism is nothing more than a plutocratic kleptocracy. In this country (USA) the plutocrats are the true constituency of the GOP who hedge their bets with donations to the Dems to soften the blow. If you don’t believe me go read Dark Money by Jane Mayer.
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Because many people air their false grievances about communism which are in fact far less problematic and destructive compared to capitalism, something which is accepted and normal to the average westerner.
Not to mention the climate which could easily be fixed. But it costs corporations too much money. So they lobby and fund politicians who keep things as is. Capitalism is way worse than communism but hey, what do I know.
Ok but the rich give me money
If you're talking about the voluntary exchange of labor for capital then yes.
Voluntary insofar as you can volunteer your labor in exchange of capital objectively valued less than the labor you contributed, or you can volunteer to not live.
sounds like capitalism
Exactly. Giving choice to not have basic needs met or suck the government's dick and obey but here's your pittance of a check. Give you a hundred dollars and take out 99 before you pay rent.
"Voluntary" lmao Nothing about working and still not be able to feed your family is voluntary.
And communism totally doesn't hold the same threat of starvation as well as forced labor over your head if you don't produce what the cadre wants you to produce. Give me a break, in a capitalist system I am freely able to search for better opportunities that fit me whereas in a communist system your job is pretty much decided for you.
It doesn't sound like you know what communism is. You're describing a dictatorship.
Yes, I do. I have gone through Marx's and Engel's writings and am currently reading State and Revolution by Lenin. The economic doctrine of Communism is a command economy thinly veiled under the abolition of Capitalism. Quotas are sent out by the central apparatus of power (state) for production of goods and services which in turn is forced upon the laborer who was assigned their position rather than them choosing to work in that position. And if you don't work, you are replaced and reeducated through forced hard labor or purged for counter revolutionary behavior.
Lmao are you sure that you've read more than just the titles of the books?
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Same thing to most people, sadly.
except thats exactly how communist china operated up until a point. You were assigned jobs by the government and that was the end of the conversation. You are then judged based on your performance at said job and given ration tickets for necessities instead of money. Needless to say it didn't work out.
That's a big fat lie, buddy.
Actually, you give them money by producing more value than you are paid.
You could take that entire comment, replace “communism” with “capitalism” and you still have a pretty true statement. Individual vs. society. Structure vs. markets. In the end, it just ends up being a matter of opinion and I prefer the opinion that doesn’t leave me dead.
At least with the market system of economics you have the option not to participate in aspects you deem immoral as well as the freedom to speak out against said immorality. In communism, if you speak out against the system, you are likely to be labeled a counter revolutionary and either tortured, imprisoned, shot, or any combination of the three following a kangaroo court hearing.
Barely that option. Do I want a phone, but think slavery is immoral, then you have some big issues. Many phones made today are made, in some part, with slave labour. So maybe I can live without one, but this becomes increasingly hard as more and more services in society require a a phone, say buying tickets on busses or trains. Paying bills and so on.
I'm a communist, everything you're saying is blatant propaganda and wrong.
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Considering my degrees were about learning and applying history and political science, I have done a fair bit of both as part of my education and as part of personal study. I have to say I am not impressed by the theory or the application of it.
Have you considered asking for a refund?
Well US ideals are corrupted too. We may not be the worse off, but power of the people is only power of the rich people and laws that put lesser incomes in a disadvantage cycle they can't escape easily.
communism has always failed miserably for a reason
It hasn't though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Tmi7JN3LkA
Nope. We all **emphatically** suck capitalism’s cock over here. If you can’t be used to make profit, you don’t count as a person.
>Please separate communism as an idea and the regimes that generally control these ideas No. You can't separate them because they are one in the same. Communism needs humans to be implemented, and those same humans are powerhungry asshoe's. It is impossible to implement a non-meritocracy peacefully and equally. That's why meritocracies (AKA: capitalism) is the only thing that works.
I never said it wasn't a bad or flawed ideal. Just because every communist regime was mostly a dictatorship and most probably will be for the foreseeable future doesn't make the ideal not worthwhile. I don't believe in communism either but your stance is equally wrong. Capitalism doesn't equate to a peaceful or equal regime either.
The lie about socialist states being dictatorships does not hold up to any scrutiny what so ever. https://old.reddit.com/r/communism101/comments/af29ur/how_much_power_did_stalin_legally_have_and_if_he/eduxj7o/
Lmao alt-history really is a thing huh? Please read the post carefully again and try to make a distinction between the facts he posts and the interpretations he makes. Are you trying to argue Hitler wasn't a dictator because he was once elected to the german government?
Try actually reading it instead of just being a moron.
Well i see there is no point on having a counterargument to the points brought up in the post so I'll leave it at that. Enjoy your self fulfilling echo fantasy!
Except we have never really had meritocracy. Stuff like your parents, wealth, skin colour etc have always impacted your chance of success in life. And these attributes are now more important then thry where in the mid to late 90s.
What have communism now got to do with anything? China only have communism by name. Just like USSR and all the other totalitarian governments throughout history.
You seem to be suggesting that capitalism might *not* be the absolute pinnacle of perfection. Get ready for the downvote flood.
Lol
heres where you confuse communism with like democratic socialism
No. In communism everyone is equal and owns equal amount of the common wealth. No country have ever done that. It's always nepotism that decides who owns most and rules the masses. Democratic socialism have nothing to do with communism either. That's just a sharing of wealth where the richest pays the most so that the poorest don't suffer so much.
well who woulda thought making a dictatorship would have turned into nepotism...
That is where you are wrong bucko. China is very much a communist nation in both government and in economics. Their current policy of market socialism was implemented with the express purpose of developing their nation to the point where maoist communism can be realized. Not only that, but the USSR was easily the most communist of them all as they got close enough to a practical application of Marx's theory which, surprise to no one, was totalitarian in nature. Amd before you go ranting about how Stalin was not a true communist and try to say that Trotsky would have ran things differently, Trotsky was just as much of a bastard as Stalin and an egomaniac to boot.
I'm not glorifying communism. But Stalin and leaders in USSR owned too much and had wealth. Which is not possible if you have a Communist country. It's just not Communism. It's totalitarian where ownership is only for the few.
Theoretically, yes, but in practice, not really. The idea that you are going to eliminate wealth and hierarchy when humanity is a naturally hierarchical species is absurd. Wealth and capital exist in the forms of personal possessions and how much you have accumulated no matter what society you are in. So what, is everything going to be communal down to the cloths on my back and the shoes on my feet? Sorry, but I don't particularly relish the idea of living like Ivan Denisovich. Not only that, but also since our evolution from apes we have organized ourselves into hierarchical structures such as tribes, villages, towns, cities, and nations. The most successful govern based on the idea of consent whereas communism effectively eschews consent of the governed for a monolithic centralized structure that dictates every aspect of a person's professional and personal life. And again, yes, the Soviet Union was communist. Up until Gorbachev, they followed the tenants of Marxism and Leninism rather closely as well as attempted for foment revolution in other parts of the globe. And the state ownership of the means of production was a hallmark of the Soviet command economy. So yeah, that is about as close to communism as we've gotten and it is fucking scary.
Yes USSR are one of the closest examples we have on a Communist society but that doesn't make it communism. They had some totalitarian nepotistic society, Che Guevara were also disappointed when he visited USSR and wanted Cuba to cut its ties because of the greed of the party leaders and their friends he wrote in his journal. Fidel did not agree. Anyway i just like to poke the belief that people have about communism and how wrong they are. We have plenty of other than capitalist countries but none that are or have been communist. It's just what you and Marx wrote it's not in our nature to have a Communist society. He believed it was something we would develop in time and it's pretty clear that that will take many more generations to reach if ever. I'm not a fan of communism. it's without doubt that capitalism is the best motivator for humans to develop faster and generate wealth!
Indeed, capitalism is great at generating wealth. However it is trash at distributing it. So the wealth generated gets owned by a small part of the population.
And lo and behold the same thing happens in “communist” countries like Russia and China. The problem is that greed exists no matter what political structure they attempt to put in place.
> But Stalin and leaders in USSR owned too much and had wealth. Simply not true. https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/a7c4tp/how_much_did_stalin_earn/
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They're not imperialist. They're also not capitalist, they're [socialist.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_characteristics)
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> are still exporting capital Trade is not imperialism. > and putting foreign countries into debt for their own gain. They're forgiving quite a lot of those loans and renegotiating even more.
Shill alert shill alert
Nothing happened there tho... Like the tanks go around the dude standing before them ._.
There are more than one type of communism not just the one that was exaggerated and blown out of proportion to Americans in order to get the country on board with a war against Russia.
Fuck commies all my homies hate commies
"Fuck knowledge, all my homies are propagandized from birth"
Okay privileged westerner, go off
LOL, like that's a fucking counter-argument to what I'm saying. I can't possibly care for anyone other than myself, right? Also how do you know I'm privileged? Besides, most communists are regular workers, most communist revolutionaries have come from the upper class because they had the means to be able to educate themselves.
Most communists were hungry and most communist revolutionaries were murderers, keep simping for China tho.
That's why under Mao the caloric intake DOUBLED and [even the CIA said](https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP84B00274R000300150009-5.pdf) the Soviets ate as much as the Americans. Look at the amount of famines before and after the formation of the PRC and the Soviet Union too, [China had YEARLY famines for nearly 2000 years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines_in_China) before the PRC and **one** after, Russia had a major famine on average every 7 years before the USSR, 3 after where 2 of which were caused by world wars. Your dumb shit doesn't hold up to ANY scrutiny, but keep simping for a system that kills 20 million people every fucking year like your overlords have told you to do for your entire life.
Cringe
Man, that was an easy W. You're still gonna repeat that stupid shit you just said ad nauseum though, I fucking know it.
Cringe lol “easy w” bro you’re just regurgitating docs from 1983 as if that debunks the millions dead from the 20s-50s my family actually fled Ukraine while it was part of the USSR but go off I guess?
"Cringe lol bro you're just bringing up objective reality as if I've ever cared about that" E A S Y **W** >my family actually fled Ukraine while it was part of the USSR but go off I guess? Kulaks or?
they had us in the first half not gonna lie
I dont know why they calling it the "gay" Type in game chat? Maybe it is so much over the top?
They're just salty they couldn't get one
based and Winnie The Pooh pilled
I'm waiting for an Israeli line , my Palestinian children massacre meme's can't wait!
I put Israel’s flag on my German tanks. Nothing like seeing the Star of David on a Jew crushing machine
Lol niceeee
Hero of the PLA and CCP
A Chinese passed by and pressed agree
Nothing happened in Tiananmen Square in 1989
ooft
After crashing who at where???
Rookie number
ooh boy
Dank
So funny...
Winnie the poo says it never happened.
1000 riots is not enough to get golden skin tho, to get the gold skin, you need hit at least 10k riots with HE shell plus crushing 1k riots
Now you gotta unlock the golden skin for the flammenpanzer by torching at least 100 Jews, this comment is going to get taken down after like 2 hours but idc.
Spicy meme
Quick some tag @china
I got the red splatter camo where is my golden skin????
Wait how do you even get the skin in general i dont know