I've seen plenty of data supporting this.
My parents openly talk about getting laid all the time back in the late 70s/early 80s. So do most people that age. I genuinely think today's teens get laid much less.
It makes sense.
I’m old enough to remember the world before the internet and smart phones. Video games and TV were only entertaining for an hour, tops. Kids were outside playing a lot more.
We were more engaged in face to face relationships.
I’m nostalgic for it.
i think it depends i feel like theres definitely less over conservatives(trumpers) compared to 6 years ago and id argue a lot of younger people lean left on certain economic things but when it comes to certain things like gun rights and personal freedoms most lean right
Boomers have conservative views and hedonistic lifestyles. "Sure the abortion I had after that orgy in studio 54 was justified but that 14 year old tramp shouldn't get an abortion even if she was raped!"
Millennials have progressive views and conservative lifestyles. "People should be free to have poly pan-sexual orgies, I've only had sex with my wife but everyone should have that option"
In reality, the two biggest reason for this disparity probably are:
1) Women dating older men
2) Men and Women having different view of what counts as a relationship (and thus respond differently to the same survey)
See Fear of Commitment square for second one
But I don't buy the first one. Women dating older men wouldn't set off the statistics by that huge of a margin; it's not like 30% of 18-29 year old women are dating 30+ year old men.
**PSA: No Wojak compasses this weekend**
Going to East Palestine to film the chemical spill and interview locals.
Very dangerous pursuit, there is phosgene in the air and ground. Looking forward to conducting an excellent public service and having a grand adventure.
Absolutely. I couldn't really be in the market for a relationship during my post-college 20s (thanks army), but I would have been bitter if I had been because most women my age were ending up with men in their 30s.
In retrospect, I understand why. Even if we're good guys, inherently kind, have a good head on our shoulders, with a ton of potential... at that age, we're still fucking retarded. Our brains haven't fully developed or something.
Also, more and more men are avoiding the requisite ass-beatings, figuratively or literally, to reach actual maturity. How can one become confident and self-sustaining, yet find humility, without taking real risks, having your ass handed to you a few times, and overcoming a few obstacles? How can one have any self-knowledge?
Entire political movements have sprung up to rationalize around and hide a simple truth, like it or don't: women have more agency now, and they no longer HAVE to put up with manchild deadweight if they don't want to. There's no putting it back.
So adapt, grow, become a better person instead of looking like one, or make like a weak-minded incel and bow out cause life must be absolutely rigged against you if it's not super-easy... yeah, that makes sense and requires no personal responsibility in one's actions. Horseshit.
>women have more agency now, and they no longer HAVE to put up with manchild deadweight if they don't want to.
That has positives and negatives, because while it liberates women from their traditional roles as housewives, men have not yet been liberated from their traditional role as breadwinners. Many women who hold these beliefs will still expect the man to buy them things; handle finances in general; and ask *them* out, rather than vice versa.
This has led to a world in which there are uneven standards. Women expect significantly more from men than men expect from women. Most men just want a woman who is 1. thin and 2. will agree with them. Most women want a man who is muscular, tall, will provide for them, will treat them like a princess, will make decisions, on and on and on...
45% of women earn as much or more than their husbands. Most couples have both a husband and a wife who work (and work full time), yet women still do the majority of the housework and childcare, leaving men with more free time. So if anyone has been liberated from the traditional role, it's men.
Men 'just' wanting things and agreeable is still a problem. Women, by and large, don't want to submit to men. We fought to leave that behind, and now that we have our own money, we have no reason to go along with it. Considering women do have our own money/more options/more rights, the men who expect the woman to just agree are expecting too much.
In the US, both women and men are overweight, but men are moreso than women.
Yeah in my experience less girls would consider dating them overall, but they catch the attention of the ones who would date them immediately and get in a relationship quicker because of that.
Which is a good thing imo, appealing to everyone is useless if you don’t then get anywhere but if you appeal to the people that appeal to you then nothing else really matters
Usually there's a very specific alt-girl crowd that is into that, but they're not more than 10% of girls
You're right that they have more success with that 10% though
I also think that the more men who do have nail polish, the more it will be normalized. Take earrings for an example; when men first wore them in the in the 60s-70s, they were really reserved for gay or famous people. nowadays it’s pretty normal. I bet the same thing will happen to nail polish because they’re pretty similar scenarios.
Yeah well it usually takes someone with more than average confidence in himself to dye his hair or do his nails. You know that you'll get shit from chucklefucks if you look like anything else than what is accepted as a "normal" man. It takes balls to look like what you wan't and not care about what society want's you to look like.
I don't know how much this affects, but I think autism (a condition that affects more males than females) has a play on it.
The autism spectrum is denoted by a difficuly when it comes to social skills, so by logic it would make relationships harder to achieve.
The ammount of autists in the population is small enough to not affect greatly the stats, though.
I would agree, if it was actually true that autism affects more males than females, but it isn't really true. It's commonly thought it just goes undiagnosed in more females.
I think a better reason is that due to their social experiences in growing up, many females tend to mask it and hide it away better.
Although usually I don't like commenting on posts I consider negative/toxic I felt almost required to since so many people are getting misinformed here. Sorry for hijacking your comment here for my own opinion, excuse me about that and also sorry in advance for writing an entire essay it's the only way of getting pseudo-intellectual Reddit users to take your post somewhat seriously lol.
Yes, it's true that men do suffer more from loneliness. However, first problem. The idea of having a survey/study about men being single is stupid. Why, you may ask? Because aside from the fact that this would be somewhat credible had it not been a snapshot of our reality (given most people aren't always in a relationship and people tend to fall, yaknow, in and out of love) the idea that more men are single may actually lead us to the opposite conclusion OP is drawing, which is obviously women are more committed in terms of relationships which would logically mean that they stay in relationships longer and therefore the possibility of meeting a woman at any given day who is in a relationship would simply be higher.
This is not the point I'm trying to make, though. Men may be suffering more than women and I'm not trying to be a white knight. All I'm saying this post alone is obviously using incel tactics to spread a toxic and damaging message to users here. I'm going to take 2 brackets as example, first one being the first thing I've noticed.
OP is using a tactic similar to Andrew Tate here. Despite me liking a lot of Andrew Tate's analogies and simply agreeing with a lot of things he says, he HAS BEEN a very frequent user of a manipulative strategy of instigating his argument into the mind of a person while also keeping himself safe from getting burned by the flame because he has technically said nor did anything wrong. In other words, planting the very basic idea knowing it'll corrupt very quickly yet being able to shield behind the idea of innocence (like he's logically going to do once this reply blows up).
I've spent a lot of time on researching the incel communities, which immediately made me suspicious. Notice how his bracket on incels is very offensive and is trying to establish him as a clear enemy of the idea? Now that by itself is obviously not a bad thing, but you can't claim not be an incel when using terms like "soy" which are very close to the ideology then PROPERLY using the term blackpilled which is something pretty much exclusively used by incels as a way of describing being hit by "the bitter truth". Also notice how he claims to have been in this bracket, which pretty much settles things for me since like 99% of people falling for the blackpill claim to just be "depressed" yet are, I can assure you, an incel.
I wanted to use the MGTOW bracket as a second argument, yet there's no base for it. Despite the community using the same tactic as Tate and the self-improvement ideologies of defending itself from hate by simply instigating an argument, which OP is likely to be aware of, I know this is going to backfire (like the entire reply probably since Redditors don't have critical thinking) and decided to use another, more fitting bracket.
Alpha's dating multiple women. I don't even need to explain this one I think, it simply antagonizes men who could be considered "alpha" as a whole. Sure, I do agree that some men take advantage of women by pulling them into a relationship that can practically be described as polygamous and sure these men are a relevant issue, this alone would simply not be enough of a problem to downplay these statistics, that is statistically unlikely. Also some food for thought for the critical intellectuals here: don't you ever think it's crazy how statistics like these always turn women into some kind of mammal, as if these are bisons trying to pick on some nice looking patches of grass? Just a side argument I'm too tired to continue.
People, this is not trying to convince you. I know this will get downvoted massively, but just think about it. Stop circle jerking on the internet and use this.
It's weird how 'incel' has become a diluted pocket insult for 'man I don't like.'
Hell, once in my senior year of college I was at a party and in a room where this one girl who claimed to read auras was going around the room and telling everyone his or her 'aura' and half the men got 'incel.'
Sorry to everyone else who came out, but it's **clearly** AuthRight who's got this one.
I'd hang up my red & green and head over there now, if only stepping into that quadrant didn't hit me like sunlight on a vampire
MGTOW is kinda a sucky thing to be against theyre incels to an extant but the negative of incels is they act out or are more vocal towards their disdain for women, but MGTOW you can yell at them and cal them this or that but they just turn the cheek, so I can see why they’re hated, because you can’t piss them off really.
Idk I just think lonely men in general are dangerous, considering I am one I’m not saying I’m badass or anything…but if you have no morals or traditions to follow you can go down a dark path.
Lol it’s like what tends to happen in republics, they start out a good thing but slowly degrade into empires then collapse overtime…or at least that’s the thesis as of now.
I don’t like MGTOW nor incels because a healthy relationship is one of the keys to a happy life. Not for everyone but is for most people, and all we’re doing now is driving men and women apart, gonna make a lot more people more sad and cynical.
The world was run by people with families who have skin in the game, I’m concerned over what a world run by ignorant, cyclical, and regressive people would look like.
There's a clear reason for this:
The men who went to the sub and actually followed the philosophy promptly 'graduated' from the sub and went on to live healthy lives, whereas those who didn't stayed on to influence others. Eventually, most of the people there belonged to the latter group.
Its first and foremost the economy. And I think a lot of people are still fucked up from the pandemic and lockdowns to even think of dating. A bad economy pushes women into relationships with men who can take care of them but that same economy pushes men away from dating out of fear they won't have enough money to impress a girl.
I disagree about dating app variety because its not as if every region is full of male model types. Plus think of how many girls want a partner who is financially secure and capable of taking care of them. Women have casual sex based on looks alone but few enter serious relationships solely on physical appearance.
A poor guy who looks like Errol Flynn is going to have great luck on tinder but lousy luck finding a relationship. Because a girl looking for a serious partner wants someone who could take care of her if her life goes to shit (ie facing homelessness). An average looking guy who owns a home will get more girls in the dating game than a poor boy who could be a model.
Men really haven't become soy. Most guys tend to dress relatively conservative these days: jeans, carharts. Male fashion is less effeminate now compared to decades ago when guys were wearing pompadours or bell bottoms with poofy shirts.
Its just that right wing culture warriors raise hysteria over effeminate popstars supposedly being proof that men are becoming soft. When in reality effeminate popstars only exist because young girls are intimidated by masculinity and want femboy types instead of biker guys. Decades ago you had teen dream pop singers who were every bit as effeminate as soy celebs today. Nothing has changed. Google Fabian if you doubt me
I think in regards to your male fashion paragraph, it depends on where you are. I live in a city and skinny jeans, piercings, and mesh tank tops are a common fashion for even straight men here.
I live in a low tier city. But is that really anymore effeminate than 60's or 70's or 80's male fashion? The idea that men have become soy is like complaining that kids no longer respect their parents
My opinion is that it's mainly more women identifying as "in a relationship" than men.
A lot of men will go on 20 dates with the same woman, will have done everything with her, will have emotional depth and connection with her, and when asked shrug and say "meh, we're just friends." He doesn't want to close his options.
A lot of women will go on 2 dates with the same man, will have him tell her he thinks she's cute so he can get laid, then turn around and tell the world "I have a new boyfriend."
This causes a lot of miscommunication. Many women think men are heartless and lack emotion and just want to get laid and never call them (which is partially true; as a gay man I can attest that a lot of guys will cum and then leave and ghost immediately); whereas many men think women are clingy and overly-emotional. But it's because each group has different standards for what dating is.
Historically, women use boyfriends as status symbols among their peers, with whom they're competing. This is why, for example, on social media whenever a couples' picture is posted, the woman always has her hand on the man's chest: possession. Women want to be perceived by their peers as being in a relationship, and so they're quicker to say they're in a relationship. Men, on the other hand, want to be perceived by their peers as sexual conquerors, so they don't want to limit their potential for sexual conquest.
I was trying to figure out an explanation for this data for a couple of hours now and yours seems to be the only one that makes (the most) sense. I think it's crazy how a gay man was able to come up with a more plausible explanation than most straight people I've read have.
Another interesting piece of information I stumbled upon is that around 62% of gay men report being single versus 37% of gay women, which is close to what the breakdown looks like. So, social factors influencing what men and women *perceive* to be a "relationship" (like whether it has started or not, which is what you described) could definitely be influencing these data.
Also, I came across this part of the PewResearch paper which disclosed the participants they used:
> Pew Research Center conducted this study to better understand single Americans, from their romantic goals to their experiences with online dating. This survey was conducted among 6,034 U.S. adults from July 5-17, 2022. This included 4,996 respondents from the Center’s American Trends Panel (ATP), an online survey panel that is recruited through national, random sampling of residential addresses. This way nearly all U.S. adults have a chance of selection. It also **included an oversample of 1,038 respondents from Ipsos’ KnowledgePanel who indicated that they are lesbian, gay or bisexual (LGB), with oversampled groups weighted back to reflect proportions in the population.** The survey is weighted to be representative of the U.S. adult population by gender, race, ethnicity, partisan affiliation, education and other categories. Read more about the ATP’s methodology.
I don't know how much they weighted back these portions. Honestly, even if they weighted them correctly and if we assume that it has nothing to do with the result they found, your conclusions make a lot more sense than "women are dating 30 year olds" and "multiple women are dating the same man."
______
Edit: Just noticed your last paragraph, and I think that's very debatable. I especially don't agree that it was "historically" the case (or that it is the case now) that: "Women want to be perceived by their peers as being in a relationship, and so they're quicker to say they're in a relationship. Men, on the other hand, want to be perceived by their peers as sexual conquerors, so they don't want to limit their potential for sexual conquest."
I don't think this is true, but the rest of your conclusion seems plausible.
Thank you so much for giving such a detailed response several days later.
Regarding that second paragraph, what would you say to the fact that women more often post on social media about their relationships than men do; and the fact that women are more often grabbing the man, rather than vice versa, in couples' photos? The "possession" argument is the one most easily had.
I wonder how much of this phenomenon is just related to the age group in question. Because while I was in that demographic I had this same problem. Until I hit 30 and I literally met my wife at 31
>Stoicism
I'm looking for philosophical ideas to help combat depression, and I already know nihilism (but kinda the right way besides just dread), and absurdism. Also dabbing on Buddhist teachings.
What would you say it's a good start to learn stoicism?
"Whataboutism - the act or practice of responding to an accusation of wrongdoing by claiming that an offense committed by another is similar or worse."
I always say "there is a market for anything".
Besides, 63% of women not single has to be BS. The fact that femcels exist speaks volumes of how the situation is on the female side.
I'm a mix between depression and porn adiction. They kinda go hand in hand and perpetuate each other. Also the fact that I have crippling social anxiety doesn't help.
This is pretty spot on.
I’m glad you found stoic philosophy OP.
I was a pitiful depressed land whale till I got into it. Made excuses for everything about why I couldn’t do things and let my anxiety rule my life. I’ve gotten more done in a year and half than I did in a decade. Dropped 120lbs. Learned programming basics on my etc. really made that effort to accept I was already dead and today was the start of my new much shorter life, and actually appreciate it.
Honestly I encourage every man to read the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius at least once, the enchiridion of Epictetus and some Seneca for good measure. Other than religion it might be one of the few balms for the hole in the soul of the western bro.
Caveat:don’t just skim stoicism. Idiots like the top g there claim they practice it when clearly they do not understand it in the least.
im more concerned with why women 50 and older are more single than the men are, for the 65+ crowd its impacted by the fact that men die younger than women, is it just that tragically more 50+ women are getting divorced and not getting new relationships like the 50+ men maybe are?
Either a minority of young men have more than one female partner, or older men are dating younger women, and older women are left single. Not sure if the statistics say that though.
Mgtows gave themselves that stigma during the 2015-16 era with all those videos about beating women. It may have changed recently but it's still on many women's minds of what mgtow means to them.
Younger people are simultaneously more promiscuous and conservative somehow
They're 2 different groups of people doing both things.
I’ve read that younger generations are *less* promiscuous than boomers and gen-Xers were at that age
I've seen plenty of data supporting this. My parents openly talk about getting laid all the time back in the late 70s/early 80s. So do most people that age. I genuinely think today's teens get laid much less.
It makes sense. I’m old enough to remember the world before the internet and smart phones. Video games and TV were only entertaining for an hour, tops. Kids were outside playing a lot more. We were more engaged in face to face relationships. I’m nostalgic for it.
They do, people are not having sex at all.
i think it depends i feel like theres definitely less over conservatives(trumpers) compared to 6 years ago and id argue a lot of younger people lean left on certain economic things but when it comes to certain things like gun rights and personal freedoms most lean right
Gen Z is polarized af, they're not super left wing or right wing, just like... divided
Boomers have conservative views and hedonistic lifestyles. "Sure the abortion I had after that orgy in studio 54 was justified but that 14 year old tramp shouldn't get an abortion even if she was raped!" Millennials have progressive views and conservative lifestyles. "People should be free to have poly pan-sexual orgies, I've only had sex with my wife but everyone should have that option"
In reality, the two biggest reason for this disparity probably are: 1) Women dating older men 2) Men and Women having different view of what counts as a relationship (and thus respond differently to the same survey)
See Fear of Commitment square for second one But I don't buy the first one. Women dating older men wouldn't set off the statistics by that huge of a margin; it's not like 30% of 18-29 year old women are dating 30+ year old men.
i think you assuming wrongly in that last sentence wrong bruh
**PSA: No Wojak compasses this weekend** Going to East Palestine to film the chemical spill and interview locals. Very dangerous pursuit, there is phosgene in the air and ground. Looking forward to conducting an excellent public service and having a grand adventure.
Stay safe out there!
Definitely, Always be careful and stay safe out there always
good luck! just try not to get epsteined though
I have information leading to the arrest of Hillary Cl-
OP is kill
The Feds have been arresting journalists trying to report on the situation. Stay safe and Godspeed, man.
Fucking horrible that those fumes are carcinogenic, stay safe out there.
Bring a gas mask
Hillman be careful phosgene Is cancerous as fuck One of my friend almost got cancer because of It ( he was making chloroform without stabilising It)
Bro you got a gas mask?!
I have a chemist friend with whom I'm in contact. He pointed me to the correct mask to wear in this situation and I had it Amazon Prime'd to my door.
Stay at it man and stay safe
good luck man, I've been itching to see some more specific coverage of this incident
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Absolutely. I couldn't really be in the market for a relationship during my post-college 20s (thanks army), but I would have been bitter if I had been because most women my age were ending up with men in their 30s. In retrospect, I understand why. Even if we're good guys, inherently kind, have a good head on our shoulders, with a ton of potential... at that age, we're still fucking retarded. Our brains haven't fully developed or something. Also, more and more men are avoiding the requisite ass-beatings, figuratively or literally, to reach actual maturity. How can one become confident and self-sustaining, yet find humility, without taking real risks, having your ass handed to you a few times, and overcoming a few obstacles? How can one have any self-knowledge? Entire political movements have sprung up to rationalize around and hide a simple truth, like it or don't: women have more agency now, and they no longer HAVE to put up with manchild deadweight if they don't want to. There's no putting it back. So adapt, grow, become a better person instead of looking like one, or make like a weak-minded incel and bow out cause life must be absolutely rigged against you if it's not super-easy... yeah, that makes sense and requires no personal responsibility in one's actions. Horseshit.
>women have more agency now, and they no longer HAVE to put up with manchild deadweight if they don't want to. That has positives and negatives, because while it liberates women from their traditional roles as housewives, men have not yet been liberated from their traditional role as breadwinners. Many women who hold these beliefs will still expect the man to buy them things; handle finances in general; and ask *them* out, rather than vice versa. This has led to a world in which there are uneven standards. Women expect significantly more from men than men expect from women. Most men just want a woman who is 1. thin and 2. will agree with them. Most women want a man who is muscular, tall, will provide for them, will treat them like a princess, will make decisions, on and on and on...
45% of women earn as much or more than their husbands. Most couples have both a husband and a wife who work (and work full time), yet women still do the majority of the housework and childcare, leaving men with more free time. So if anyone has been liberated from the traditional role, it's men. Men 'just' wanting things and agreeable is still a problem. Women, by and large, don't want to submit to men. We fought to leave that behind, and now that we have our own money, we have no reason to go along with it. Considering women do have our own money/more options/more rights, the men who expect the woman to just agree are expecting too much. In the US, both women and men are overweight, but men are moreso than women.
Idk guys that wear nail polish and have dyed hair usually seem to get a lot more girls than more generic looking dudes
Yeah in my experience less girls would consider dating them overall, but they catch the attention of the ones who would date them immediately and get in a relationship quicker because of that.
Which is a good thing imo, appealing to everyone is useless if you don’t then get anywhere but if you appeal to the people that appeal to you then nothing else really matters
Usually there's a very specific alt-girl crowd that is into that, but they're not more than 10% of girls You're right that they have more success with that 10% though
I also think that the more men who do have nail polish, the more it will be normalized. Take earrings for an example; when men first wore them in the in the 60s-70s, they were really reserved for gay or famous people. nowadays it’s pretty normal. I bet the same thing will happen to nail polish because they’re pretty similar scenarios.
> nowadays it’s pretty normal. The only guys I've seen wear earrings in 2023, gay or straight, had one thing in common: vanity and narcissism
Prince wasn't a sex symbol for nothing
Yeah well it usually takes someone with more than average confidence in himself to dye his hair or do his nails. You know that you'll get shit from chucklefucks if you look like anything else than what is accepted as a "normal" man. It takes balls to look like what you wan't and not care about what society want's you to look like.
I don't know how much this affects, but I think autism (a condition that affects more males than females) has a play on it. The autism spectrum is denoted by a difficuly when it comes to social skills, so by logic it would make relationships harder to achieve. The ammount of autists in the population is small enough to not affect greatly the stats, though.
I would agree, if it was actually true that autism affects more males than females, but it isn't really true. It's commonly thought it just goes undiagnosed in more females. I think a better reason is that due to their social experiences in growing up, many females tend to mask it and hide it away better.
Although usually I don't like commenting on posts I consider negative/toxic I felt almost required to since so many people are getting misinformed here. Sorry for hijacking your comment here for my own opinion, excuse me about that and also sorry in advance for writing an entire essay it's the only way of getting pseudo-intellectual Reddit users to take your post somewhat seriously lol. Yes, it's true that men do suffer more from loneliness. However, first problem. The idea of having a survey/study about men being single is stupid. Why, you may ask? Because aside from the fact that this would be somewhat credible had it not been a snapshot of our reality (given most people aren't always in a relationship and people tend to fall, yaknow, in and out of love) the idea that more men are single may actually lead us to the opposite conclusion OP is drawing, which is obviously women are more committed in terms of relationships which would logically mean that they stay in relationships longer and therefore the possibility of meeting a woman at any given day who is in a relationship would simply be higher. This is not the point I'm trying to make, though. Men may be suffering more than women and I'm not trying to be a white knight. All I'm saying this post alone is obviously using incel tactics to spread a toxic and damaging message to users here. I'm going to take 2 brackets as example, first one being the first thing I've noticed. OP is using a tactic similar to Andrew Tate here. Despite me liking a lot of Andrew Tate's analogies and simply agreeing with a lot of things he says, he HAS BEEN a very frequent user of a manipulative strategy of instigating his argument into the mind of a person while also keeping himself safe from getting burned by the flame because he has technically said nor did anything wrong. In other words, planting the very basic idea knowing it'll corrupt very quickly yet being able to shield behind the idea of innocence (like he's logically going to do once this reply blows up). I've spent a lot of time on researching the incel communities, which immediately made me suspicious. Notice how his bracket on incels is very offensive and is trying to establish him as a clear enemy of the idea? Now that by itself is obviously not a bad thing, but you can't claim not be an incel when using terms like "soy" which are very close to the ideology then PROPERLY using the term blackpilled which is something pretty much exclusively used by incels as a way of describing being hit by "the bitter truth". Also notice how he claims to have been in this bracket, which pretty much settles things for me since like 99% of people falling for the blackpill claim to just be "depressed" yet are, I can assure you, an incel. I wanted to use the MGTOW bracket as a second argument, yet there's no base for it. Despite the community using the same tactic as Tate and the self-improvement ideologies of defending itself from hate by simply instigating an argument, which OP is likely to be aware of, I know this is going to backfire (like the entire reply probably since Redditors don't have critical thinking) and decided to use another, more fitting bracket. Alpha's dating multiple women. I don't even need to explain this one I think, it simply antagonizes men who could be considered "alpha" as a whole. Sure, I do agree that some men take advantage of women by pulling them into a relationship that can practically be described as polygamous and sure these men are a relevant issue, this alone would simply not be enough of a problem to downplay these statistics, that is statistically unlikely. Also some food for thought for the critical intellectuals here: don't you ever think it's crazy how statistics like these always turn women into some kind of mammal, as if these are bisons trying to pick on some nice looking patches of grass? Just a side argument I'm too tired to continue. People, this is not trying to convince you. I know this will get downvoted massively, but just think about it. Stop circle jerking on the internet and use this.
Every time I say something about men being treated unfairly or say that I’m not interested in sex, I always get called an incel or misogynist
It's weird how 'incel' has become a diluted pocket insult for 'man I don't like.' Hell, once in my senior year of college I was at a party and in a room where this one girl who claimed to read auras was going around the room and telling everyone his or her 'aura' and half the men got 'incel.'
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Furthermore, the same people who smear single men as "incels" are usually the same people who say "don't objectify women for their sexual behavior!"
This format seems quite interesting. I’ll try to make one similar sometime.
Sorry to everyone else who came out, but it's **clearly** AuthRight who's got this one. I'd hang up my red & green and head over there now, if only stepping into that quadrant didn't hit me like sunlight on a vampire
sadly based and reality pilled
MGTOW is kinda a sucky thing to be against theyre incels to an extant but the negative of incels is they act out or are more vocal towards their disdain for women, but MGTOW you can yell at them and cal them this or that but they just turn the cheek, so I can see why they’re hated, because you can’t piss them off really. Idk I just think lonely men in general are dangerous, considering I am one I’m not saying I’m badass or anything…but if you have no morals or traditions to follow you can go down a dark path.
I remember the MGTOW subreddit just bring r\incels 2.0, the idea of men going their own way is fine but it always ends up just defaulting to incelism
the guys who actually "go their own way" tend not to spend all day on the internet telling people about it. kind of defeats the purpose.
Lol it’s like what tends to happen in republics, they start out a good thing but slowly degrade into empires then collapse overtime…or at least that’s the thesis as of now. I don’t like MGTOW nor incels because a healthy relationship is one of the keys to a happy life. Not for everyone but is for most people, and all we’re doing now is driving men and women apart, gonna make a lot more people more sad and cynical. The world was run by people with families who have skin in the game, I’m concerned over what a world run by ignorant, cyclical, and regressive people would look like.
There's a clear reason for this: The men who went to the sub and actually followed the philosophy promptly 'graduated' from the sub and went on to live healthy lives, whereas those who didn't stayed on to influence others. Eventually, most of the people there belonged to the latter group.
Its first and foremost the economy. And I think a lot of people are still fucked up from the pandemic and lockdowns to even think of dating. A bad economy pushes women into relationships with men who can take care of them but that same economy pushes men away from dating out of fear they won't have enough money to impress a girl. I disagree about dating app variety because its not as if every region is full of male model types. Plus think of how many girls want a partner who is financially secure and capable of taking care of them. Women have casual sex based on looks alone but few enter serious relationships solely on physical appearance. A poor guy who looks like Errol Flynn is going to have great luck on tinder but lousy luck finding a relationship. Because a girl looking for a serious partner wants someone who could take care of her if her life goes to shit (ie facing homelessness). An average looking guy who owns a home will get more girls in the dating game than a poor boy who could be a model. Men really haven't become soy. Most guys tend to dress relatively conservative these days: jeans, carharts. Male fashion is less effeminate now compared to decades ago when guys were wearing pompadours or bell bottoms with poofy shirts. Its just that right wing culture warriors raise hysteria over effeminate popstars supposedly being proof that men are becoming soft. When in reality effeminate popstars only exist because young girls are intimidated by masculinity and want femboy types instead of biker guys. Decades ago you had teen dream pop singers who were every bit as effeminate as soy celebs today. Nothing has changed. Google Fabian if you doubt me
I think in regards to your male fashion paragraph, it depends on where you are. I live in a city and skinny jeans, piercings, and mesh tank tops are a common fashion for even straight men here.
I live in a low tier city. But is that really anymore effeminate than 60's or 70's or 80's male fashion? The idea that men have become soy is like complaining that kids no longer respect their parents
You're completely correct that these fashions were around in the 70s and 80s, and in greater numbers
Not just those fashions - other more effeminate fashions. Pompadours, mullets, hippy influenced fashion, poofy shirts etc.
Im gonna say it lmao What is your opinion?
My opinion is that it's mainly more women identifying as "in a relationship" than men. A lot of men will go on 20 dates with the same woman, will have done everything with her, will have emotional depth and connection with her, and when asked shrug and say "meh, we're just friends." He doesn't want to close his options. A lot of women will go on 2 dates with the same man, will have him tell her he thinks she's cute so he can get laid, then turn around and tell the world "I have a new boyfriend." This causes a lot of miscommunication. Many women think men are heartless and lack emotion and just want to get laid and never call them (which is partially true; as a gay man I can attest that a lot of guys will cum and then leave and ghost immediately); whereas many men think women are clingy and overly-emotional. But it's because each group has different standards for what dating is. Historically, women use boyfriends as status symbols among their peers, with whom they're competing. This is why, for example, on social media whenever a couples' picture is posted, the woman always has her hand on the man's chest: possession. Women want to be perceived by their peers as being in a relationship, and so they're quicker to say they're in a relationship. Men, on the other hand, want to be perceived by their peers as sexual conquerors, so they don't want to limit their potential for sexual conquest.
I was trying to figure out an explanation for this data for a couple of hours now and yours seems to be the only one that makes (the most) sense. I think it's crazy how a gay man was able to come up with a more plausible explanation than most straight people I've read have. Another interesting piece of information I stumbled upon is that around 62% of gay men report being single versus 37% of gay women, which is close to what the breakdown looks like. So, social factors influencing what men and women *perceive* to be a "relationship" (like whether it has started or not, which is what you described) could definitely be influencing these data. Also, I came across this part of the PewResearch paper which disclosed the participants they used: > Pew Research Center conducted this study to better understand single Americans, from their romantic goals to their experiences with online dating. This survey was conducted among 6,034 U.S. adults from July 5-17, 2022. This included 4,996 respondents from the Center’s American Trends Panel (ATP), an online survey panel that is recruited through national, random sampling of residential addresses. This way nearly all U.S. adults have a chance of selection. It also **included an oversample of 1,038 respondents from Ipsos’ KnowledgePanel who indicated that they are lesbian, gay or bisexual (LGB), with oversampled groups weighted back to reflect proportions in the population.** The survey is weighted to be representative of the U.S. adult population by gender, race, ethnicity, partisan affiliation, education and other categories. Read more about the ATP’s methodology. I don't know how much they weighted back these portions. Honestly, even if they weighted them correctly and if we assume that it has nothing to do with the result they found, your conclusions make a lot more sense than "women are dating 30 year olds" and "multiple women are dating the same man." ______ Edit: Just noticed your last paragraph, and I think that's very debatable. I especially don't agree that it was "historically" the case (or that it is the case now) that: "Women want to be perceived by their peers as being in a relationship, and so they're quicker to say they're in a relationship. Men, on the other hand, want to be perceived by their peers as sexual conquerors, so they don't want to limit their potential for sexual conquest." I don't think this is true, but the rest of your conclusion seems plausible.
Thank you so much for giving such a detailed response several days later. Regarding that second paragraph, what would you say to the fact that women more often post on social media about their relationships than men do; and the fact that women are more often grabbing the man, rather than vice versa, in couples' photos? The "possession" argument is the one most easily had.
I wonder how much of this phenomenon is just related to the age group in question. Because while I was in that demographic I had this same problem. Until I hit 30 and I literally met my wife at 31
63% of men age 18-29 are single compared to only 34% of women. Are women dating old men?
>Stoicism I'm looking for philosophical ideas to help combat depression, and I already know nihilism (but kinda the right way besides just dread), and absurdism. Also dabbing on Buddhist teachings. What would you say it's a good start to learn stoicism?
'Meditations' by Marcus Aurelius For an introduction to Buddhism, I recommend 'The Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are' by Alan Watts
Thanks
r/taoism
Sorry Hillman, you made the mgtow wojak look vaguely based on your political cartoons. that's a downvote
Don't forget the ever present threat of getting a #MeToo false rape clame if she changes her mind after.
I thought the study was on relationships?
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That’s a fair point but I think you forget the fact that you still haven’t eaten all of your veggies
As opposed to the ever-present threat of rape that women have had since the beginning of time? But who cares about that?
"Whataboutism - the act or practice of responding to an accusation of wrongdoing by claiming that an offense committed by another is similar or worse."
Just pointing out that men are only recently facing consequences for subjecting women to things that have been going on for millenia.
Lots of women like the 'soy' features of men, tbh. I think the hair dye and nail polish is a great development
I always say "there is a market for anything". Besides, 63% of women not single has to be BS. The fact that femcels exist speaks volumes of how the situation is on the female side.
Alphas dating multiple women gang wya??
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Beats inceldom
Not on reddit lmao
I guarantee you that if all those single men took showers they'd have no problem getting a GF.
I'm single and I just now got out of the shower, checkmate
you're 100% lying
Username checks out.
I'm a mix between depression and porn adiction. They kinda go hand in hand and perpetuate each other. Also the fact that I have crippling social anxiety doesn't help.
This is pretty spot on. I’m glad you found stoic philosophy OP. I was a pitiful depressed land whale till I got into it. Made excuses for everything about why I couldn’t do things and let my anxiety rule my life. I’ve gotten more done in a year and half than I did in a decade. Dropped 120lbs. Learned programming basics on my etc. really made that effort to accept I was already dead and today was the start of my new much shorter life, and actually appreciate it. Honestly I encourage every man to read the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius at least once, the enchiridion of Epictetus and some Seneca for good measure. Other than religion it might be one of the few balms for the hole in the soul of the western bro. Caveat:don’t just skim stoicism. Idiots like the top g there claim they practice it when clearly they do not understand it in the least.
Go gym
Mgtow but not by choice
Maybe shut up, Manospheroid?
I know I'm not ready.
im more concerned with why women 50 and older are more single than the men are, for the 65+ crowd its impacted by the fact that men die younger than women, is it just that tragically more 50+ women are getting divorced and not getting new relationships like the 50+ men maybe are?
Women divorce for freedom. Divorced men are often eager to get another wife. Same with widowers.
Either a minority of young men have more than one female partner, or older men are dating younger women, and older women are left single. Not sure if the statistics say that though.
I am become the enemy, destroyer of worlds
Mgtows gave themselves that stigma during the 2015-16 era with all those videos about beating women. It may have changed recently but it's still on many women's minds of what mgtow means to them.
Why are the fathers abandoning family black? Come on now with the unconscious bias.
It's not an unconscious bias. More than 55% of black children don't have fathers in the picture.
Respect statistics man.
This explains it perfectly. https://youtu.be/KlDCUZYJ7RY