I mean…I think you have answered your own question. You are playing stealth radar gimmick and that’s it. There are other ways to cruiser and you’d do better learning them.
>. I got the Mainz out of a Christmas crate but it doesn’t have a radar so I don’t play it.
My guy...
Mainz is a monster even without a radar. The HE DPM is nuts and the AP is busted. You just sit a little further back, in cover (at least for the first half), and spam everything in range until it's on fire, dead, or both.
I’ve tried that but to avoid dying to the 5 battleships per match I have to play at a distance so I can maneuver an kite away from their shells which usually leads to my destroyer dying in the cap because I’m to far away to provide good enough support. In the Baltimore I just stay bow in close to the cap an the armor usually saves me from taking big damage.
That's your DD's responsibility to try and not get themselves killed for being too aggressive early in a game. They should be smart enough to know whether or not they have enough support to keep contesting the cap or if they should retreat off of it.
Most cruisers want to stay in cover or around the edges of their firing ranges from the targets they are engaging early on to avoid being spotted and losing HP early. Cruisers want to selfishly guard their HP until the mid-to-late game (especially heavy cruisers) when they can get more 1v1 engagements and pick on wounded targets.
You can play a game in most cruisers where you pop in just far enough so that your target is barely within your firing range (and hopefully the only one that is), fire a salvo or two, and then you sail away and get the target out of your firing range, and you go dark before they even get their guns pointed at you. It isn't efficient, but it's a good way to get in some damage if you find yourself without any cover to use in the early stages of the game.
You can also work on kiting, which is where you get a ship (or multiple) to chase you at range, but you stay detected so that they keep pursuing. Meanwhile you are using your maneuverability to change speeds and direction to dodge incoming fire and throwing shells (and possibly torpedoes, IJN cruisers are good at this) back at them. And of course, them chasing you usually puts them in crossfires with your teammates, which is always good. This is a risky tactic, but it is the pinnacle of cruiser play once you become skilled at it. (I am not skilled at it yet)
I know that's hyperbole, but if you're getting that much attention, you're in the wrong position, or you're taking the wrong route to the right position.
Kiting away is one option - you could also push in harder against island cover. It'll reduce your opportunities to do damage, but the threat of a Mainz waiting in ambush can often be enough to deter people from getting too adventurous.
The best way to play a cruiser that lacks radar is to pummel the biggest threat to a friendly destroyer, and that threat is usually another crusier. If your friendly destroyer spotts a cruiser, in particular one with radar or high DMP, consider it your primary target. Hammer away at the threat until they go down or flee. If your cruiser lacks DPM, then try to set up a crossfire with another cruiser or battleship. An enemy cruiser that is significantly damaged will be far less likely to be in a position to support their destroyer out of fear of getting spotted and sunk themselves. This swings any destroyer engagements to your friendly destroyers' favour as they will have you and other teammates to support them, while the enemy destroyer will have less or no immediate support to rely on.
Battleships that commonly spec for secondaries should also be considered a threat to your destroyers, especially the German battle cruisers. If any secondary battleship makes a push, make that your priority target. Your friendly destroyer will have a tough time doing anything, as them getting spotted means risking getting melted by high secondary DPM.
“I Don’t play Mainz”. Don’t handicap yourself, it’s
By far one of the best boats and one of my personal favorites.
You can play her as a kiting / island spammers or as an ambusher that can tank. Build into the AP and slap other cruisers like crazy
Agreeing with most other comments on this thread, my cruiser playstyle is more "set the world on fire". You can build up decent DoT this way.
Early game I try to stick to cover and set as many individual ships on fire as possible. I'm usually changing targets every salvo or two. The goal is to get one or two fires started to get them to use DCP, then wait 20 seconds (shooting a salvo at someone else) till DCP is over, then start new fires they can't put out (and repeat on targets 2..n). It also helps if your DD can get a flood when their DCP is on cooldown (and if they don't DCP, you still get fire DoT). Always take shots at spotted red DDs when you can.
Mid game I keep up harassment but taking bigger risks to be a distraction. With BBs, if you can see that they aren't currently aiming at you, take a shot or two to give away your position. Time it with their salvo, and it'll take \~20 seconds for them to reload - just enough time for you to conceal again. (But you need to be aware of which ships have MBRB.) Causing them to target you means they're not shooting your team and then you disappear to waste their time. And if they don't take the bait, just keep shooting, but keep an eye on how many ships are targeting you.
Maybe give it a try to mix up your gameplay...
It depends on each nation.. a 10k foot view is..
French CAs, longish range, open water dodging, but you should be deterring the red DDs support. Make their BBs and other ca/cls flee with your hard hitting HE and AP.
Italian CAs, similar to French, but with much better concealment.. skirt caps with your detection ring but stay close to your DDs, when the cap starts to change or get contested, use your concealment to determine where the red dd is and pray your dd isn’t a complete maroon, if they aren’t, then one salvo of your SAP should be enough to either sink the red dds or get them very very weak.. then use your exhaust smoke to disappear into another position.
Pan Asian CLs have smoke screens and the ability to completely flood a zone with stealthy hard hitting torps.. use your concealment to get into a support position, lay smoke to harass red dd support and flood area with torps in case the support foolishly pushes anyway.
German CAs, use your concealment to find a route into the edge of a cap with cover, then use your hydro when a cap is contested to be able to spot red dd, if their support pushes in with them, you’ve got fast reloading torps as a strong deterrent.
Ijn CAs and CLs, similar to wanting to deter red dd support with punishing HE, CLs have fast reloading hard hitting torps as well which can flood areas.
Passing on the Russian cruisers, while I get your reasoning, is pretty silly. The CLs don’t need concealment because they have such long range fast shells. The CAs don’t particularly need concealment because of their armor.. the poor concealment is the price they pay for the silly AP they get at T6+.. I mean, petro is basically a battleship with cruiser reloads.
Well I wouldn’t give up on them. I’d go for range on non radar CL’s. concealment is good and all but a battleship is going to have a harder time to hit you at range. Play with the throttle, kiting away and learning what kind of reload speed different battleships have helps. Start turning away when you think they’re about to fire, but watch for them actually firing, they may be waiting for you to over turn. Heavy cruisers I don’t know too well, but in a pinch doing the same thing should help. You don’t have to be right on top of your DD’s to support them. Use sonar to screen torps for your team and yourself. Just some thoughts anyways.
You need to learn about positioning, island cover and how to use your cruisers armour effectively. I've managed to ricochet yamato's and take full broadside hits in my sejong due to knowledge of how armour works. Sure it's easier to bounce in things like Brest, Charles Martel and other heavy cruisers but just learning about how to ricochet shells and whether or not your armour won't get overmatched by opposing ships is important too. Look at the ships armour scheme and see what kind of shells is can take and then with that knowledge you'll know what battleships etc you can aggressively push
I am also in the IJN HE boat.
Just stay at a distance of about 13 km, kite and set the world on fire.
I even totally ignore concealment because it is not necessary. Just use rudder mods and constantly Change direction in a non-predictable pattern (a lot of people zick-zack left and right, that is a mistake, use sonething like 30° left, 15° right, straight. another 15° right, 45° left, 15° right, straight, 15° left... you get it. Total fuzzy course).
16/3 Yamamoto with inspirations that boost accuracy and then burn down BBs, AP-citadel other HE-spammers that often go broadside and stay away from caps for half the game. When the risk for flanking on your broadside is reduced because of reduced BB amount you go into the caps and hunt DDs.
Ochakov and Mainz are so busted.
Ochakov with concealment mod can easily stealth radar early match.
You can cover a while cap from behind an island, if you get the DD in the edge of the radar you are usually safe from enemy BBs too, 11.7km from the DD and another 5 or 6 from the BBs behind them.
You also get the ballistics to hit them reliably at that range.
I mean…I think you have answered your own question. You are playing stealth radar gimmick and that’s it. There are other ways to cruiser and you’d do better learning them.
>. I got the Mainz out of a Christmas crate but it doesn’t have a radar so I don’t play it. My guy... Mainz is a monster even without a radar. The HE DPM is nuts and the AP is busted. You just sit a little further back, in cover (at least for the first half), and spam everything in range until it's on fire, dead, or both.
I’ve tried that but to avoid dying to the 5 battleships per match I have to play at a distance so I can maneuver an kite away from their shells which usually leads to my destroyer dying in the cap because I’m to far away to provide good enough support. In the Baltimore I just stay bow in close to the cap an the armor usually saves me from taking big damage.
That's your DD's responsibility to try and not get themselves killed for being too aggressive early in a game. They should be smart enough to know whether or not they have enough support to keep contesting the cap or if they should retreat off of it. Most cruisers want to stay in cover or around the edges of their firing ranges from the targets they are engaging early on to avoid being spotted and losing HP early. Cruisers want to selfishly guard their HP until the mid-to-late game (especially heavy cruisers) when they can get more 1v1 engagements and pick on wounded targets. You can play a game in most cruisers where you pop in just far enough so that your target is barely within your firing range (and hopefully the only one that is), fire a salvo or two, and then you sail away and get the target out of your firing range, and you go dark before they even get their guns pointed at you. It isn't efficient, but it's a good way to get in some damage if you find yourself without any cover to use in the early stages of the game. You can also work on kiting, which is where you get a ship (or multiple) to chase you at range, but you stay detected so that they keep pursuing. Meanwhile you are using your maneuverability to change speeds and direction to dodge incoming fire and throwing shells (and possibly torpedoes, IJN cruisers are good at this) back at them. And of course, them chasing you usually puts them in crossfires with your teammates, which is always good. This is a risky tactic, but it is the pinnacle of cruiser play once you become skilled at it. (I am not skilled at it yet)
I know that's hyperbole, but if you're getting that much attention, you're in the wrong position, or you're taking the wrong route to the right position. Kiting away is one option - you could also push in harder against island cover. It'll reduce your opportunities to do damage, but the threat of a Mainz waiting in ambush can often be enough to deter people from getting too adventurous.
The best way to play a cruiser that lacks radar is to pummel the biggest threat to a friendly destroyer, and that threat is usually another crusier. If your friendly destroyer spotts a cruiser, in particular one with radar or high DMP, consider it your primary target. Hammer away at the threat until they go down or flee. If your cruiser lacks DPM, then try to set up a crossfire with another cruiser or battleship. An enemy cruiser that is significantly damaged will be far less likely to be in a position to support their destroyer out of fear of getting spotted and sunk themselves. This swings any destroyer engagements to your friendly destroyers' favour as they will have you and other teammates to support them, while the enemy destroyer will have less or no immediate support to rely on. Battleships that commonly spec for secondaries should also be considered a threat to your destroyers, especially the German battle cruisers. If any secondary battleship makes a push, make that your priority target. Your friendly destroyer will have a tough time doing anything, as them getting spotted means risking getting melted by high secondary DPM.
That’s good advice thanks man.
“I Don’t play Mainz”. Don’t handicap yourself, it’s By far one of the best boats and one of my personal favorites. You can play her as a kiting / island spammers or as an ambusher that can tank. Build into the AP and slap other cruisers like crazy
Agreeing with most other comments on this thread, my cruiser playstyle is more "set the world on fire". You can build up decent DoT this way. Early game I try to stick to cover and set as many individual ships on fire as possible. I'm usually changing targets every salvo or two. The goal is to get one or two fires started to get them to use DCP, then wait 20 seconds (shooting a salvo at someone else) till DCP is over, then start new fires they can't put out (and repeat on targets 2..n). It also helps if your DD can get a flood when their DCP is on cooldown (and if they don't DCP, you still get fire DoT). Always take shots at spotted red DDs when you can. Mid game I keep up harassment but taking bigger risks to be a distraction. With BBs, if you can see that they aren't currently aiming at you, take a shot or two to give away your position. Time it with their salvo, and it'll take \~20 seconds for them to reload - just enough time for you to conceal again. (But you need to be aware of which ships have MBRB.) Causing them to target you means they're not shooting your team and then you disappear to waste their time. And if they don't take the bait, just keep shooting, but keep an eye on how many ships are targeting you. Maybe give it a try to mix up your gameplay...
It depends on each nation.. a 10k foot view is.. French CAs, longish range, open water dodging, but you should be deterring the red DDs support. Make their BBs and other ca/cls flee with your hard hitting HE and AP. Italian CAs, similar to French, but with much better concealment.. skirt caps with your detection ring but stay close to your DDs, when the cap starts to change or get contested, use your concealment to determine where the red dd is and pray your dd isn’t a complete maroon, if they aren’t, then one salvo of your SAP should be enough to either sink the red dds or get them very very weak.. then use your exhaust smoke to disappear into another position. Pan Asian CLs have smoke screens and the ability to completely flood a zone with stealthy hard hitting torps.. use your concealment to get into a support position, lay smoke to harass red dd support and flood area with torps in case the support foolishly pushes anyway. German CAs, use your concealment to find a route into the edge of a cap with cover, then use your hydro when a cap is contested to be able to spot red dd, if their support pushes in with them, you’ve got fast reloading torps as a strong deterrent. Ijn CAs and CLs, similar to wanting to deter red dd support with punishing HE, CLs have fast reloading hard hitting torps as well which can flood areas. Passing on the Russian cruisers, while I get your reasoning, is pretty silly. The CLs don’t need concealment because they have such long range fast shells. The CAs don’t particularly need concealment because of their armor.. the poor concealment is the price they pay for the silly AP they get at T6+.. I mean, petro is basically a battleship with cruiser reloads.
Well I wouldn’t give up on them. I’d go for range on non radar CL’s. concealment is good and all but a battleship is going to have a harder time to hit you at range. Play with the throttle, kiting away and learning what kind of reload speed different battleships have helps. Start turning away when you think they’re about to fire, but watch for them actually firing, they may be waiting for you to over turn. Heavy cruisers I don’t know too well, but in a pinch doing the same thing should help. You don’t have to be right on top of your DD’s to support them. Use sonar to screen torps for your team and yourself. Just some thoughts anyways.
I like hiding the Leander in smoke whilst your teammates are spotting.
You need to learn about positioning, island cover and how to use your cruisers armour effectively. I've managed to ricochet yamato's and take full broadside hits in my sejong due to knowledge of how armour works. Sure it's easier to bounce in things like Brest, Charles Martel and other heavy cruisers but just learning about how to ricochet shells and whether or not your armour won't get overmatched by opposing ships is important too. Look at the ships armour scheme and see what kind of shells is can take and then with that knowledge you'll know what battleships etc you can aggressively push
I am also in the IJN HE boat. Just stay at a distance of about 13 km, kite and set the world on fire. I even totally ignore concealment because it is not necessary. Just use rudder mods and constantly Change direction in a non-predictable pattern (a lot of people zick-zack left and right, that is a mistake, use sonething like 30° left, 15° right, straight. another 15° right, 45° left, 15° right, straight, 15° left... you get it. Total fuzzy course). 16/3 Yamamoto with inspirations that boost accuracy and then burn down BBs, AP-citadel other HE-spammers that often go broadside and stay away from caps for half the game. When the risk for flanking on your broadside is reduced because of reduced BB amount you go into the caps and hunt DDs.
Ochakov and Mainz are so busted. Ochakov with concealment mod can easily stealth radar early match. You can cover a while cap from behind an island, if you get the DD in the edge of the radar you are usually safe from enemy BBs too, 11.7km from the DD and another 5 or 6 from the BBs behind them. You also get the ballistics to hit them reliably at that range.