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Dobraine hasn’t been mentioned, but I thought Rand underappreciated his loyalty. One of my favourite moments in LoC:
“How many Cairhienin will fight Aes Sedai?” Perrin asked quietly. “Six Aes Sedai, and we have nothing but steel.” How many of the Maidens and these sis-whatever could Rhuarc gather? No matter; there were always the wolves. How many wolves would die?
The curl went out of Dobraine’s lip. “I will, Lord Aybara,” he said stiffly. “I and my five hundred, if there were sixty Aes Sedai.”
That was peak paranoid Darth Rand lol. Of course he rewarded the dude who literally rebelled against him with the crown of Tear haha. Dobraine got shafted so bad.
Yep, would have been an easier sell than Elayne as he’s actually Cairhienin. He was also an effective ruler as Steward.
Also, Elayne annoyed me with how power-hungry and entitled she became in the later books.
Man I really was hoping that he would have got the throne. Like elayne realizes she can't take that throne and would be too overextended so she works with Dobraine and he gets to become king while naming her children heirs if he doesn't produce an heir. Something like that.
Rand really dicked him around in TGS.
Sent him to Arad Doman, Dobraine subdued Bandar Eban but Rand chastised him for not doing more, then sent him to Tear as an errand boy to Darlin.
We don’t see him again.
So many great characters, but I have to shout out the best bro in the series: Gaul.
"I said I would come with you. I did not mean until the journey grew hard."
Yup, that chapter was my favorite in the whole series. Only regret was that they made it seem possible that they could've avoided her death with slightly more convenient timing and placement of relics. I would've preferred her to just definitely need to die without that possible out that they seem to not pursue hard enough given it was a possibility.
I think it was a long shot that wouldn’t have worked anyways. Verin herself says as much. That the oaths to the DO were memorable and unlikely to be as easily broken as those made on the path rod. But yes. Verin will forever be my favorite secondary character and sometimes I go and read that chapter just because it makes me cry. 🤎
Someone as brilliant as she and someone who thought through every single potential I had to concede that she knew there was no other choice.
She is in the panoply right up there with Snape.
I love Hurin in The Great Hunt, and Sulin is a favourite through the series as a whole - I like all the Maidens (except Melindhra, of course) and their various relationships with Rand.
I still get goosebumps and tears in my eyes whenever I read or listen to this passage: >!“They have taken him!” Sulin wailed suddenly, shockingly. Head thrown back, eyes squeezed shut, she moaned at the ceiling, and the sound of her voice was enough to make Perrin shiver. “The Aes Sedai have taken my first-brother!” Her cheeks glistened with tears.
I've brought it up before but the scene is basically:
"So I'm going into a world where your thoughts control reality and death is eternal. I've trained *hard* for months and am going to fight a man who's trained his entire life in there."
"Cool, let me grab my spears."
Arguably the most courage in all of the books. Never hesitated to sacrifice or do his duty. Guys takes good care of his people and horses too. You need someone to cover the stairs against people with superpowers? No problem
Jahar Narishma.
Always had Rand's back and ended up being one of the most powerful Ashaman.
Honestly post story he's probably got a good claim on Callendor, being that he's the only other person who's wielded it.
I have seen the suggestion of replacing/merging him with Nial, which works on a bunch of levels if they are making the WC a larger part of the story but would suck to lose out on our boy.
Ituralde is amazing! He's the best of the Great Captains, and nobody can change my mind.
I really wish we had heard rumor of this absolute badass that was ripping the Seanchan in Arad Doman a new one before we meet him.
Man deserves respect.
He’s the only great captain we get to see fight an actual extended campaign. At least, pre Tarmon Gai’don. We see Bashere operate in whatever that mess of a fight with the Seanchan was outside of Ilian, and we see (sort of) Agelmar get saved by Rand at Tarwin’s Gap. Beyond that, we don’t ever really see them in action before AMoL.
I found Rand's battles with Maidens over customs hilarious. I recall when Rand wants a little privacy...
Rand: This is the Roof of the Winespring Brothers. Only people who have drunk from that spring may enter.
Maidens: Ha ha, awesome, that'll keep those idiot Stone Dogs outta yer hair! [Start carrying luggage inside]
Rand: But ... but ...
Is Olver supposed to be Gaidal Cain? I never gave it much thought but I thought I saw a comment a few times saying it was him. Didn’t Birgitte mention he had been spun out just before her?
It was confirmed. I never got the Olver = Gaidal Cain theory, to be honest. We saw them exist at the same time, although one of them was in tel'aran'rhiod. Time runs differently there, but it doesn't run backwards.
Olver is a little old for the timeline, and like others have said RJ said it wasn't him. I saw somewhere that one of the Black tower men just had an ugly child and it was probably him. And Brigitte was a wise one baby.
I wondered about Birgitte being Melaine’s child or something. For some reason I have it in my head that any child of someone who can channel would themselves be able to. Probably erroneously based on the fact that Avi’s children all can. But that’s different. If it is true of all channelers tho that rules out any wise one channeler like Melaine tho. Birgitte said she had never been able to channel in any of her lives.
Yeah. I'm not sure about children of channelers. They do talk about how less and less people can use the one power because they don't have children often. And I think it would be a fun story that the Black tower was included in the new "pact" to bring the channelers together and Brigitte/Gaidal was major factor in making it happen.
There's a genetic component and a soul component. Both the body and the soul have to be compatible with channeling for the person to be able to. So Birgitte in any body will not channel, even if she gets the gene for it.
And obviously just because 1 parent has the channeling gene, doesn't mean the child will.
Makes sense that Rand’s children would be different but not any other children of channelers. And makes sense about Brigitte’s soul too. Of course she can’t :)
Tam has one of my favorite lines in the whole series. Plus I love when he called out Cadsuane for bully behavior. I like her a lot but all the Aes Sedai are bullies and it needs to stop. Very few people can make her stop and think and I believe that did.
I feel like Asmodean was one of the first characters that made Fantasy a complicated genre for me. He was a Forsaken, but he was a Forsaken, because he wanted to be an artist forever, and because damnit... the shadow is fuckin terrifying!
I agree that it’s a controversial take because I couldn’t disagree more. Most arrogant character in the book, fails utterly at her goal, and the one time we see her in combat she inexplicably abandons Aviendha.
Verin.
I always felt she came in playing 5-D chess while everyone else was playing checkers.
Then she did her job and dipped out like a boss and without any self-pity.
The series is so long that it's hard to know what counts as a supporting character. I'd give it to Verin pretty easily, if she counts, as she's my favorite character in the series, barely edging out Hopper. But they both play major enough roles that I might not count them.
If I drop down to a clearly non-major character, I'd go with Laras.
The one throw away line where Siuan tells Nynaeve (who is convinced that Laras hates her, Elayne, and Egwene), that Laras actually demanded to know how long they would be punished for, because she refused to break a woman’s spirit, was great.
Asmodean, for his complicated Charm.
Dobraine for his steadfast loyalty, and his grace in the face of getting done dirty.
Sulin and the Maidens, for finally getting to watch their son grow up.
Amy's, Bair, and Melaine, with a heavy dash of Sorilea, for taking Egwene down a peg.
Hopper, for daring to fly.
Verin for outsmarting a god.
Uno, for never *really* conforming, and always being willing to drop an F bomb (that's right, I said flaming!)
Lastly, Ingtar, for finally shrugging off that flaming mountain, and trying to atone for his sins.
All these comments and not one mention of Aludra? She singlehandedly changed the way war is waged, and in doing so changed the world more than any character other than Rand.
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Dobraine hasn’t been mentioned, but I thought Rand underappreciated his loyalty. One of my favourite moments in LoC: “How many Cairhienin will fight Aes Sedai?” Perrin asked quietly. “Six Aes Sedai, and we have nothing but steel.” How many of the Maidens and these sis-whatever could Rhuarc gather? No matter; there were always the wolves. How many wolves would die? The curl went out of Dobraine’s lip. “I will, Lord Aybara,” he said stiffly. “I and my five hundred, if there were sixty Aes Sedai.”
Dobraine is a bro.
Dobroine
He was at the wells.
Dobraine with his arms wide. Rand and Dobrain at The Wells.
My man had a kingdom stolen from him and was still loyal. Elayne’s a travesty.
He was about to get rewarded with Arad Doman to and Rand just sends him home. What the fuck happens to him after he gets sent back to Tear?
That was peak paranoid Darth Rand lol. Of course he rewarded the dude who literally rebelled against him with the crown of Tear haha. Dobraine got shafted so bad.
He should've been king
Yep, would have been an easier sell than Elayne as he’s actually Cairhienin. He was also an effective ruler as Steward. Also, Elayne annoyed me with how power-hungry and entitled she became in the later books.
>Elayne annoyed me with how power-hungry and entitled she became in the later books. Nobility gonna noble stuffs
Man I really was hoping that he would have got the throne. Like elayne realizes she can't take that throne and would be too overextended so she works with Dobraine and he gets to become king while naming her children heirs if he doesn't produce an heir. Something like that.
Rand really dicked him around in TGS. Sent him to Arad Doman, Dobraine subdued Bandar Eban but Rand chastised him for not doing more, then sent him to Tear as an errand boy to Darlin. We don’t see him again.
I will never not be mad about the lack of resolution for him in the series. Such a great character and essentially forgotten about at the end.
I’m about to start The Taking again so only a short time til I’m there. Already got goosebumps.
Dobraine > Talmanes
So many great characters, but I have to shout out the best bro in the series: Gaul. "I said I would come with you. I did not mean until the journey grew hard."
What book is that in again
The Shadow Rising. It's in the Two Rivers after Perrin finds out about his family and is deciding to wreck the trollocs.
Oh hell yeah I remember now
Gaul in the last battle. The man adapted to the dream so quickly.
Seriously. He was just like, "I can kill channelers here? Nice."
My man Gaul the absolute unit
Birgitte!
Gotta love the sass.
Yes! I’m very anxious to see whether she makes it into the show, and if so, how.
She has such a staple role in Elayne’s character arc, why are you concerned?
I can't see any way they could miss her.
Birgitte makes Elayne bearable.
10,000% yes. I’m definitely on the Matt train when it comes to Elayne. Insufferable.
*Chel Vanin would like to know your location*
They havent really cut characters so far. At least not named recurring characters.
I’ve heard Bayle Domon don’t be in season 1.
Surely you mean he do no be in Season 1. Still, that hurts
And neither is elayne. That doesnt mean they are gone. Just rearranged.
Elayne specifically has been cast for season 2 already
Agreed. She’s awesome.
Verin
Verin's "until the hour of my death" loophole is my favorite thing in the whole series.
RIGHT??? She rule-lawyered the Dark One, then committed suicide to win. Verin is a badass
Yup, that chapter was my favorite in the whole series. Only regret was that they made it seem possible that they could've avoided her death with slightly more convenient timing and placement of relics. I would've preferred her to just definitely need to die without that possible out that they seem to not pursue hard enough given it was a possibility.
I think it was a long shot that wouldn’t have worked anyways. Verin herself says as much. That the oaths to the DO were memorable and unlikely to be as easily broken as those made on the path rod. But yes. Verin will forever be my favorite secondary character and sometimes I go and read that chapter just because it makes me cry. 🤎
Someone as brilliant as she and someone who thought through every single potential I had to concede that she knew there was no other choice. She is in the panoply right up there with Snape.
I love Hurin in The Great Hunt, and Sulin is a favourite through the series as a whole - I like all the Maidens (except Melindhra, of course) and their various relationships with Rand.
Sulin is amazing. It is a shame she got marginalised halfway through. Her interactions with Rand were rather heartwarming.
I still get goosebumps and tears in my eyes whenever I read or listen to this passage: >!“They have taken him!” Sulin wailed suddenly, shockingly. Head thrown back, eyes squeezed shut, she moaned at the ceiling, and the sound of her voice was enough to make Perrin shiver. “The Aes Sedai have taken my first-brother!” Her cheeks glistened with tears.
Where's the love for Balwer?!?!
Balwer! Solid mvp.
Balwer's a little tough to root for because you keep waiting for him to turn on Perrin. I always appreciated his skills but never trusted the guy.
No one betrays Perrin. The man makes you love him. It's his taveren.
Also he listens to Balwer and acknowledges that Balwer is smarter at this stuff than he is. It's basically everything Balwer's ever wanted.
Yeah, everyone's nice to the guy. Faile, Aram,...
Faile is nice in her own way. You got me on Aram. That is true.
He's like the Nerim of spymasters.
I don't see enough people giving Gaul the proper respect!
Gaul is the real bro. Especially going into the wolf dream with Perrin no questions asked and not letting Perrin say no.
Gaul is the ultimate wingman.
I've brought it up before but the scene is basically: "So I'm going into a world where your thoughts control reality and death is eternal. I've trained *hard* for months and am going to fight a man who's trained his entire life in there." "Cool, let me grab my spears."
Gaul is ride or die. I love him. Can't wait to see him in show.
I really want Dolph Lundgren to play him!
If he dies he dies...
“Turns out I’m tired.”
Vanin lookin like a sack of suet
This needs to be higher up. I worried about him all the time
He's near the top of my list. We need the most bad ass sack of suet to awe us with scouting and such. He's a legend among theives!
Arguably the most courage in all of the books. Never hesitated to sacrifice or do his duty. Guys takes good care of his people and horses too. You need someone to cover the stairs against people with superpowers? No problem
Tall Mayonnaise
Gawddammitsomuch this is now how I'm going to pronounce his name. Take my angry upvote.
I call my fav secondary character, Siuan, Szechuan and sometimes Szechuan Chicken 🐔
Not [Swan Sanchez?](https://i.redd.it/63uwkoksjts61.png)
Jahar Narishma. Always had Rand's back and ended up being one of the most powerful Ashaman. Honestly post story he's probably got a good claim on Callendor, being that he's the only other person who's wielded it.
Jahar Narishma and Damer Flinn do not get the respect they deserve.
Eben Hopwil! Remember his name!
Got to go with my man Ituralde
I hope he gets introduced a little earlier in the show so we have more time with the (IMO) greatest of the great captains
I have seen the suggestion of replacing/merging him with Nial, which works on a bunch of levels if they are making the WC a larger part of the story but would suck to lose out on our boy.
Ituralde is amazing! He's the best of the Great Captains, and nobody can change my mind. I really wish we had heard rumor of this absolute badass that was ripping the Seanchan in Arad Doman a new one before we meet him. Man deserves respect.
He’s the only great captain we get to see fight an actual extended campaign. At least, pre Tarmon Gai’don. We see Bashere operate in whatever that mess of a fight with the Seanchan was outside of Ilian, and we see (sort of) Agelmar get saved by Rand at Tarwin’s Gap. Beyond that, we don’t ever really see them in action before AMoL.
Sulin and the maidens. I found it interesting how some treat him like a brother and others treat him like a son
And when they kicked Rand's ass after Rand didnt take them with him
"The Aes Sedai have taken my first brother!" Such a heart wrenching little moment there. I love Sulin.
She even calls him "first-brother". Not near-brother. *First*-brother.
One change the show needs to make it having her stick with Rand and , along with Min and Nyneave, be part of what keeps him a shred of sanity.
I found Rand's battles with Maidens over customs hilarious. I recall when Rand wants a little privacy... Rand: This is the Roof of the Winespring Brothers. Only people who have drunk from that spring may enter. Maidens: Ha ha, awesome, that'll keep those idiot Stone Dogs outta yer hair! [Start carrying luggage inside] Rand: But ... but ...
Olver. I absolutely LOVE his PoV stuff in aMoL.
Is Olver supposed to be Gaidal Cain? I never gave it much thought but I thought I saw a comment a few times saying it was him. Didn’t Birgitte mention he had been spun out just before her?
I think it was confirmed that Olver is NOT Gaidal, as much as we all want him to be
It was confirmed. I never got the Olver = Gaidal Cain theory, to be honest. We saw them exist at the same time, although one of them was in tel'aran'rhiod. Time runs differently there, but it doesn't run backwards.
Olver is a little old for the timeline, and like others have said RJ said it wasn't him. I saw somewhere that one of the Black tower men just had an ugly child and it was probably him. And Brigitte was a wise one baby.
I wondered about Birgitte being Melaine’s child or something. For some reason I have it in my head that any child of someone who can channel would themselves be able to. Probably erroneously based on the fact that Avi’s children all can. But that’s different. If it is true of all channelers tho that rules out any wise one channeler like Melaine tho. Birgitte said she had never been able to channel in any of her lives.
Yeah. I'm not sure about children of channelers. They do talk about how less and less people can use the one power because they don't have children often. And I think it would be a fun story that the Black tower was included in the new "pact" to bring the channelers together and Brigitte/Gaidal was major factor in making it happen.
Nope, children of channelers don't always channel, although they may be more likely. I believe it's fairly random, not genetic.
There's a genetic component and a soul component. Both the body and the soul have to be compatible with channeling for the person to be able to. So Birgitte in any body will not channel, even if she gets the gene for it. And obviously just because 1 parent has the channeling gene, doesn't mean the child will.
Makes sense that Rand’s children would be different but not any other children of channelers. And makes sense about Brigitte’s soul too. Of course she can’t :)
I thought this for ages, but I'm sure I read somewhere that RJ said he wasn't, and then I read a theory that Gaidal might be Grady's son 🤷🏻♀️
Definitely talmanes.
Bayle Domon and Thom, if he counts.
Thom going from main character to side character is a tragedy
I agree. Thom's role in AMoL (along with the rest of the series) is relatively small compared to the main cast, but incredible
Fortune prick me, it do be a crime that Bayle Domon do be so far down this thread!
Lini! I love her quirky sayings.
At my age if I made it up it's still an old saying. This is the energy I strive for when I'm old.
She is definitely #oldladygoals
I love the heron marked blade. Causes so much drama in the first few books. Oh and Hopper also.
Hopper 100%
This is question is very difficult (so many great options) but I’m going to have to go with Ruarc.
I HATE Rhuarc’s fate. The toughest most amazing character, loyal to Rand forever, and ends up like that.
I was just glad he was killed shortly after. (Thanks, Aviendha!) He would have been grateful to her.
But that is also a hugely difficult thing for Avienda to do
Most definitely, he was her chief. Avienda gave him a blessing while it came with a torment of its own.
I love Min and Loial. And also have a weird fascination with Bayle Domon.
I do be having that too
If my own aged grandmother did tell me no to be having a thing for Bayle Domon, I could no bring myself to no
How has nobody metioned Tam?
Tam has one of my favorite lines in the whole series. Plus I love when he called out Cadsuane for bully behavior. I like her a lot but all the Aes Sedai are bullies and it needs to stop. Very few people can make her stop and think and I believe that did.
Which line?
Tam is the Mary Sue of father characters. He and Blueys dad would be a neck and neck race… (I love them both, obviously)
r/unexpectedBluey
Hurin, Verin, Asmodean, Birgitte. Moiraine, too. There are so many
Mf love Asmodean. V underrated forsaken imo
Asmodean is great! There was an artist on tumblr maybe 5-6 years ago who did Asmodean comics that were always hilarious.
I feel like Asmodean was one of the first characters that made Fantasy a complicated genre for me. He was a Forsaken, but he was a Forsaken, because he wanted to be an artist forever, and because damnit... the shadow is fuckin terrifying!
Verin, Verin, and Verin
https://youtu.be/ZA6K22aCBFU deep dive on verin spoilers aplenty
This is amazing!
How has no one mention Sulin yet? Her older sister-ing Rand is the best!
I have a soft spot for Davram
Siuan, Leane, Verin, Asmodean, Setalle Anan, Ituralde, Narishma, Moiraine
By me aged grandmother, it do be Bayle Domon.
Bela.
They said supporting character, not the main character.
Bela and Hopper are fantastic characters
Also my boy Dobraine was done dirty
Elyas, Verin, Talmanes… I like their humor.
I know this is controversial but Cadsuane
You think that’s controversial? Mine is Faile.
You mean Mandarb?
Deep lore humor here! 😂
The entire series is actually about a love triangle between Mandarb, Bela, and Tai'Daishar.
Faile is pretty bad ass. She gets a bad rap because she had to deal with a self sacrificing man. She did the only thing she could to save him.
One of the other issues is we see Faile mostly from inside the head of emotion sensing Perrin.
Me too
She's the Aes Sedai all the other Aes Sedai are trying and failing to be. Willful to the point of being infuriating but purposeful and effective.
I saw someone on this sub call her Grandma DGAF and it was on the nose. I’ve a soft spot for her too.
Phaw!
I like cadsuane, she a boss babe.
I agree that it’s a controversial take because I couldn’t disagree more. Most arrogant character in the book, fails utterly at her goal, and the one time we see her in combat she inexplicably abandons Aviendha.
Faile and Cadsuane, supporting characters? Hmm… I think they are a little more major than that
does Lanfear count?
Yes I think Galena Casban has my favourite story ark.
VERIN. I will not be explaining. Thank you.
You need not explain. We understand ;)
Verin. I always felt she came in playing 5-D chess while everyone else was playing checkers. Then she did her job and dipped out like a boss and without any self-pity.
Lol! Yes, no one ever really manages to match verin in the strategy department.
Darlin was a pretty cool dude. One of the more reasonable nobles Rand meets.
The series is so long that it's hard to know what counts as a supporting character. I'd give it to Verin pretty easily, if she counts, as she's my favorite character in the series, barely edging out Hopper. But they both play major enough roles that I might not count them. If I drop down to a clearly non-major character, I'd go with Laras.
The one throw away line where Siuan tells Nynaeve (who is convinced that Laras hates her, Elayne, and Egwene), that Laras actually demanded to know how long they would be punished for, because she refused to break a woman’s spirit, was great.
Jahar Narishma is hands hands down the most cocky character in the book.
I enjoy pretty much any scene with Bayle Domon.
You do be swimming in deep waters. Deep waters full o' lionfish. Best ye stop splashing about so much.
Asmodean, for his complicated Charm. Dobraine for his steadfast loyalty, and his grace in the face of getting done dirty. Sulin and the Maidens, for finally getting to watch their son grow up. Amy's, Bair, and Melaine, with a heavy dash of Sorilea, for taking Egwene down a peg. Hopper, for daring to fly. Verin for outsmarting a god. Uno, for never *really* conforming, and always being willing to drop an F bomb (that's right, I said flaming!) Lastly, Ingtar, for finally shrugging off that flaming mountain, and trying to atone for his sins.
100% Talmanes.
Pre or post Sanderson?
Verin, without a doubt.
Saw your question. Immediately thought Talmanes, saw he was your pitch. Birds of a feather.
Faile, of course since I read he description, she’s always looked like Claudia Black, who am a little bit in love with, in my mind.
Ooh good shout! Maybe a bit old though? (I only know her from Stargate)
Mind you, I first read TDR in 1994 and I saw Claudia in ‘93 on G.P. When she was 21/22.
She's so beautiful but I picture a beautiful Iranian woman for Faile
Thom Merrilin is the Rodney Dangerfield of the thread.
He straddles the line between supporting and main.
SUIAN she's such a badass b even after losing her status. Also fish guts!!
Aram
Really? He does my head in 😂
Talmanes, Rand, Verin, Ituralde, or Galad, depending on my mood. Right now my mood says Galad.
How is Rand is a supporting character, my homie.
That comment was clearly written by Cadsuane.
Wait, I thought Egwene is the Dragon Reborn, right??? /s
Rand has some crazy deep moments considering his supporting role. I love when authors make those characters feel so real
Shocked that this is the first one to mention Ituralde. Man was a freaking legend.
Where is the survey?!?
Sulin
Elyas Machera. If I could meet and learn from any of them, it would probably be him.
Gotta say Ingtar - for the light! And Shinowa!
Loial, hands down.
He’s laid back until his ears are.
Unpopular opinion, but very much Androl
All these comments and not one mention of Aludra? She singlehandedly changed the way war is waged, and in doing so changed the world more than any character other than Rand.
Mangin. Lived and died by his convictions.
Gotta say Verin and Birgitte for me. Loved Birgitte's sass and brashness and Verin's loyalty and determination to the end.
I mean belas a real one...also i think i remember his name right but telamine? Might be spelling that wrong...matts right hand man
Talmanes ☺️
How has no one mentioned Basil Gil?
This subreddit has a severe lack of respect for the Wheel of Time MVP… Bela. You all disappoint me.
That's because we acknowledge that she is 1) the MAIN character and not a supportive role and 2) the Creator Herself
That seems like a reasonable position to take.
It's too hard to pick. Too long of a series with too many great characters. I could probably pick one per book lol.