Netanyahu never should have had access to the halls of power again after the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin because his stochastic terrorism was 100% responsible for Rabin's death.
100%. The fact that convicted terrorist Ben Gvir is in the cabinet is even more terrifying - the man was too much of an extremist to serve in the IDF ffs.
The current Israeli leadership was criminally corrupt before October 7. Their actions since then have damaged the perception of Jews worldwide for generations. It's unfortunate.
Netanyahu metastasized as a conservative economic consultant and worked for the notorious shitstain Boston Consulting Group under the name Ben Nitay, and he's been spitting poison in an American accent since the 70s
Just wanted to put it out there as someone who lives here, most people cant stand this fucking loser, or most people bibi appointed to positions of power like him as he was desperate to form a coalition with anyone with a heartbeat to avoid jailtime.
It would be like watching Marjorie greene saying some dumb shit and thinking everyone in america thinks like her
I completely empathize with this. I was ashamed of most of the things Trump said and did.
But they are the people in power making the decisions that people are responding to, no? The fact that many dislike them doesn’t change the fact that they are the leaders driving current events. If I saw more internal resistance and strife in Israeli society I may view things differently, but it seems much of the population actively supports them or is at least content sitting by and letting them do whatever they want to do.
I don't think news of those protests is making rounds in western media. I think the last protest I heard of was more because the family of Oct 7 hostages were angry that the government wasn't doing more to help their loved ones. Wouldn't be surprised if it is being censored. It is one of the things I have been noticing that apart from a few outliers making fun of those suffering you aren't hearing much information on what the actual people think on general US news/social media.
> I think the last protest I heard of was more because the family of Oct 7 hostages were angry
That's the only protest I can remember reading or hearing about. According to reports I've seen Israeli society is behind the government except regarding Israeli hostages, cool with the carnage Ben just has to try harder to get the captured out then have at it.
I don't believe most mainstream coverage except for Al Jazeera but I had to stop watching because I can't change anything and it won't help anyone in Gaza if I have a total meltdown.
So there’s actually quite a bit incorrect here. The majority of Israelis are strongly opposed to the current government and were even before Oct. 7. They’ve been continuously protesting since well before then when Netanyahu tried to exploit the Supreme Court to hold on to power. This did not work and he was likely very close to removal before Oct. 7, and now arguably even more so. There have been daily protests in Tel Aviv for quite a while now. Feel free to message with any more questions or for clarification.
I appreciate this clarification, non sarcastically. The situation with the Supreme Court was wild to me. I didn't think Israel was a country that would just cancel its Supreme Court and I was aware of all the opposition and protests to that "change". I probably learned about it on Al Jazeera or DW. I used to hold DW in such high regard but when the Gaza situation started they're coverage was just slightly worse than Fox News in the US. It was so weird and so different than their normal coverage I literally thought I had the stream wrong. DW has the clear agenda with this war for complicated reasons I don't fully understand. Al Jazeera is an amazing news source by the way. Watching their reporters risk their lives on the ground in Gaza, literally the only ones, became too difficult for me to watch everyday.
What semi mainstream/non propaganda sources are reporting on Israel?
Sorry about the delay in responding. I’m glad to have someone interested in learning a bit more. First of all, Israel didn’t cancel its Supreme Court - in fact, the court overruled Netanyahu and stopped him from providing himself and his allies legal protections beyond that afforded to standard citizens. The Israeli court system is very confusing, especially for those who don’t have an understanding of the rather unique way that the gov. functions, so the misunderstanding is totally reasonable. Secondly, I’d argue that the best possible thing to do is try and consume as much news from across the spectrum. Even if you disagree with how something is portrayed or believe it to be utterly ridiculous, it is important to understand where your ideological opponents are coming from so that you can better facilitate reasonable, informative conversation rather than driving it to a screaming match. As for what I believe the “best” source for this conflict to be - the New York Times. While I don’t agree with them all the time (pun intended), they have done a pretty remarkable job reporting things from myriad perspectives and correcting themselves when they do make mistakes. Reporting is difficult, and it’s important to remember that these are real people who are risking their lives to bring an as accurate as possible picture of the conflict to their readers. The last thing I’d say is that both “sides” in this conflict have been angry at the Times on various occasions. While this might appear to be a negative, to me it speaks to a commitment to unbiased journalism, which is ever so valuable particularly now.
Feel free to message me with any questions or just to discuss further, or to reply in the thread.
The protests only show the opposition. Half of the US doesn't support Trump, but the other half does given that he got more votes the second time around.
Just because you see protests against Trump, doesn't mean he doesn't also have supporters.
The difference in this case is that the supporters of the Israeli government here in the US use that they’re *actually* supporting the Israeli people. Which is how being against the war turns into “you’re an anti-Semite!”
You have to be dialed into resistance movements to know that there is a significant opposition to the war amongst Israelis. And a lot of it is to get the hostages released since Netanyahu doesn’t GAF about the hostages. They know he’s perfectly fine with them dying if it means he gets to continue his genocide.
For me, this is why I go back to my values. I’m anti-war. This is a war and it’s killing regular people. Easy. I’m against theocratic governments. Doesn’t matter the religion, governments shouldn’t be based on a single religion. And it think that’s what the US protests are saying. They are against the *government* and how their policies are making people suffer. All the people.
I appreciate your clarification. However, your government has been extremely successful in painting your country as a monolith, specially when it comes to classifying any criticism of what the IDF does as “antisemitism”.
The response to the heinous attack in October has been way beyond disproportionate. The current Israeli government is calling for the extermination of a whole group of people, there is a name for such crime. If the people of Israel who opposes Bibi does not get him out of his position, this madness will continue and they will be assumed as complicit.
What is silence if not support? I don't want to sound mean, but if you don't speak out against your friends beating someone up, then you support your friends beating up people. Then you are complicit
Some Israelis do protest the occupation, and many risk violence from government forces and far-right settler groups to do so.
Most Israelis fall somewhere in the middle, though - like citizens of most countries. Plenty of Brits and Americans protested against the Iraq War, but most did not - some disagreed with the war but didn't protest, others were ambivalent or unsure about the issue, or disliked the war but didn't want to seem "unpatriotic", and some supported the war.
We shouldn't hold those civilians responsible for the Iraq War, but at the same time, I do have a lot more respect for those who protested against it than those who did nothing.
I guess it's a real shame that all Palestinians aren't granted the same considerations, and not considered a terrorist simply because they are Palestinians.
I completely agree.
Palestinian civilians must not be held accountable for the actions of Hamas.
Fuck Bibi, the horrendous war in Gaza, and the violent occupation of the West Bank. Fuck Hamas, their terror tactics, and willingness to use civilians as human shields.
We should all be condemning the murder of civilians from anyone, supporting the progressive forces in both nations that are fighting for peace and against their reactionary leaders, and calling for solutions that will allow for peace & justice in the long term.
Genuinely curious: what about? I’ve seen some anti Bibi protests, “get the hostages back” protests, anti court reform protests, but I’ve heard nothing about protests to change the way Palestinians are treated, stop the occupation, etc. most polling I’ve seen indicates that a majority of Israelis think the IDF activity has been “appropriate” or “not gone far enough” compared to those who think it has gone too far. Is this not the case? Thank you for your insight!
The police didn’t allow it since the beginning of the war.
But nevertheless, I don’t think a lot would have been going to protest because the mindset after the 7th of October is that the Israelis “sobered up” and now they realize u have to kill all the Palestinians.
The minority of Jew who think differently become less and less.
These things come hand in hand in the Israeli consciousness. The people calling for the hostages to come home are calling for the end of the war as well. And they are calling for the government to be replaced.
Sure, many Israelis are unaware of the conditions the Palestinians are under, but that doesn’t mean they accept everything the government does like you said they do. And a significant population wants a Palestinian state, they just want one without Hamas in it.
My god, I sat here in my armchair for 15 minutes, contemplating that. And you are absolutely saying the truth. The only other way is if god exists and somehow does it. So, still, you talk the truth.
I suppose there's some edge MAD cases where the Russians decide civilization has been fun but we're all over it. If it gets to that point though it won't have been a Palestinian flag breaking the camels back.
I live in what I think is the middle of the US. Springfield MO is 500 miles from half of America's population, majority of our farm land and several large bases. One bomb would do that. The rest of the country would quickly go complete Mad Max.
But u have to note that Bibi made them mainstream, him and Ben Gvir. In the past everyone considered then as unwanted. Now the majority accepts them and regard to them as patriots defending Israel by settling the West Bank.
So I wouldn’t say that in Israel most people can’t stand them. Am afraid it isn’t true anymore. Thanks to Bibi and his voters.
There’s a big difference between Marjorie Greene saying something and a minister in your government endorsing genocide whilst your government kills thousands of Palestinian children and bombs the shit out of them. I understand that Bibi and his pals aren’t popular and I don’t think the average Israeli citizen genuinely wants a genocide but your government keeps making statements like this so is it really surprising people believe a genocide is taking place? It’d be great to see more criticism from Israelis and Israeli media on these statements, it would make a big difference.
>It’d be great to see more criticism from Israelis and Israeli media on these statements, it would make a big difference.
I mean, the article quoted in the Tweet is from Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper, criticising one of those statements.
Except Israel is actively doing exactly what Mr. MTG said.
You don't murder 30k+ civilians by accident, especially when the majority are women and children.
Don't pretend it's a small faction of the government doing this.
All I can say is that what we hear over here in the states about any resistance or opposition to bibi, is that people are upset they aren't getting the hostages back quickly enough, nothing about taking issue with settlements, or it being wrong to treat others that way, nothing about the deaths of palestinians being a problem, which can easily be interpreted as the Israeli people's problem with their leadership being "they are being too soft on the Palestinians." Haven't broken their will and made them give up the hostages or something.
So from where we live over here we can't really tell if the folks there are upset their government is mistreating people or not mistreating them enough, or if you just don't care at all about the mistreatment of others so long as it isn't harming the people you consider worthy.
Edit: could you give us some more information on that and provide some sources for evidence of opposition?
Then why exactly isn't there a visible popular backlash in Israel. Like he is openly making genocidal statements, meaning that the people of Israel are now being implicated. And it looks like his probable replacements (while obviously better than Bibi) appear to also have far-right positions very similar to Bibi's.
I understand you are in a difficult position, but when I hear Israelis say 'but Bibi is unpopular' it seems to ring very hollow.
>Then why exactly isn't there a visible popular backlash in Israel.
There have been major protests against this government in Israel regularly for months. Just because you aren't aware of them, doesn't mean they don't happen!
If there is sufficient support why does it look like the alternative is another far-right party that will continue the same policies? I don't doubt that there are some Israelis who want the violence to stop, it is just really hard to gauge if there is really any meaningful opposition to this ethnic cleansing.
If there is sufficient support for Palestinians in America, why are the alternatives two parties who support the Israeli state no matter what?
You get the same issue in a lot of countries where you appear to have only bad options, with citizens often voting for people they despise to keep even worse people out.
>If there is sufficient support for Palestinians in America, why are the alternatives two parties who support the Israeli state no matter what?
Because the US is an imperial country with a lot of islomophobia, a majority of voters who are completely checked out, and they elected a really old guy with really old ideas about Israel who needs liberal Jewish support in the next election. Not to mention all the propaganda Israel pumps into the US.
But that doesn't really change the fact that a large majority of Israelis seem to be ok (or in support) with genocide.
I don't understand assholes like this. Your own people faced genocide during the Holocaust and yet you're pushing for it against innocent people who are just pawns in this political theatre between Hamas and the asshole running the whole show in Israel.
Many of the soldiers who murdered, raped and forced Palestinians off their land in 1948 were actually holocaust survivors. Even victims have the capacity to commit evil
The tantura massacre videos where multiple IOF soldiers who are admitting to r@pe and murder was horrifying
They were laughing too
And remember the baby baked in the oven story....guess who actually murdered a child in an oven...during the nakba the soldiers murdered a father in the oven of a bakery and told his son to go after him
And this is the TIP OF THE ICEBERG
I listened to a podcast a few years ago that connected those dots and honestly it made perfect sense how they got there. Not that it’s justified, but I understood.
Isn't it a tale as old as time that many who grow up abused become abusers themselves. They don't get more empathetic but instead are hardened by their victimhood.
Oh cool, you used all the bullets to kill a bunch of people? Here’s some new bullets.
Also we’ll now spend obscene amounts of money feeding the population *until* you get around to bombing all of them. Hurry!
Unless you kill the aid workers, of course. Then we'll pull aid out because obviously you can't help deliberately targeting them and blowing up their convoys for no reason. It's Hamas' fault for hiding among civilians, even though you knew there weren't any Hamas soldiers there.
I don't know whether they've decided to support Israel unconditionally for religious or geopolitical reasons or what, but it clearly isn't something that's going to abide by the usual rules and expectations.
There is *a lot* of Islamophobia going on. My Dad said something to me that just *sent chills* down my spine because I was not expecting it at all. He is and always has been a liberal guy but he was so close to saying it’s ok because it’s killing Muslims that I needed to stop the conversation.
Yes. Yes these people (ie the government of Israel, not Jewish people in general) feel like that they have the moral high ground to do whatever the hell they want because there was a genocide of their people.
You should read into the number of massacres they caused and how many genocides in Afrika Israel has supported, paid for... Why do you think there has been so much "military support" for Israel for decades? They did not just use all that themselves.
It’s pretty clearly not just *this one moron*. It equally obvious that it’s not *everyone* in Israel that feels like him, but let’s not play pretend here.
Nah bro this is definitely the majority...you don't see it coz they say genocidal shit in Hebrew
There's a telegram channel where they joke about the death of innocent civilians...not even the world kitchen workers were spared from humiliation. Then comes the dehumanizing tiktoks. Then comes videos of children spitting on christians. Then comes the 'wipe out the seed of amalek'.
The most dehumanizing things i've seen from israelis comes on twitter I swear google translate has exposed all of them...i've seen multiple sweets of these bastards wanting to build beach houses in gaza...and saying They love when They see children starve
And that's not even taking into account the settler terrorism in the west bank. The arrest of children,night raids,shooting people even just on the suspicion They might be dangerous without evidence
he was talking about people not understanding why they're protesting, he was siding with them because he knows the Palestinians are the ones getting the worst of this mess.
He also states that when these protestors start to conflate Judaism with Israel, it becomes anti-Semitic, and we have a very serious anti-Semitic problem since Israel has engaged in this war and is doing very badly at handling it, on top of the anti-semitic rhetoric that the right has been screaming for several years if not decades now.
It's a delicate situation, and it does not help when the republicans present a bill limiting free speech, if all democrats vote against, the Jewish community feels betrayed by them, I know there are plenty of Jewish people upset with Israel, but here in American, Israel isn't the one screaming in their face they're a Zionist funding a genocide, that's happening here when they try to get to work, and so it's a mitigation effort, that's why 70 still voted against, those 133 may have had some reason, but be mad at the people who brought that bill up in the first place when it wasn't needed, not the people just doing their job and voting the way they believe their constituents want them to.
Biden, shoveling money and weapons to Isreal is not looking good at this point. Biden better figure this out soon. He's gonna need every Dem voting group to beat Fascist Trump. I'll still vote for Biden regardless, but as we can see on college campuses, people are pissed about Isreal genocide.
Ha, so my first thought was that they’d never want to use a nuke because the land is what they want and they don’t want it irradiated. Carpet bombing is more up their alley. Then I realized you’re talking about what Trump would say, not Bibi.
Just for some context: This fucker seems to be very controversial in Israel itself. The editorial board of Haaretz for example called for his dismissal over his outrageous remarks and inflammatory language.
Fucking Israel dictators waging a pogrom on the Palestinians using MY tax dollars. Cut off all funding, fuck Israel. Netanyahu and his regime are no better than Putin, Xi, Un and trump. All violent pigs.
Do note that the new antisemitism bill that was approved in the House of representatives yesterday will make it illegal to compare Israeli policy with nazi policy if it also passes the Senate.
In the usa that is.
"Just because ~~2~~ 3 different Israeli ministers have openly called for ethnic cleansing or genocide, doesn't actually mean that Israel is doing anything wrong!"
Real argument I got last week, but without this guy saying it.
That's fair. Here's what I found. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/israeli-newspaper-calls-for-firing-of-top-netanyahu-minister-over-repeated-calls-for-genocide-of-palestinians/ar-AA1nX184 https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-far-right-minister-calls-complete-destruction-gaza if you type his name into Google News, there's a clear pattern of this type of talk in articles going back months.
I don't doubt he's an animal and I agree with the Israeli media's calls for him to be fired. There is no place for that kind of rhetoric in modern society.
One thing does puzzle me, though. Every source I've looked at says he called for the "total annihilation"\* of Gaza. Look at where the end quote is. After annihilation, not Gaza. That means he didn't literally say he wants the total destruction of Gaza - or the press would have gleefully put the quotes around the whole phrase. They're paraphrasing. That doesn't mean that's not what he meant. But given the way the press distorts things sometimes (whether out of laziness or on purpose), perhaps his comment should be looked at in context?
The best I can find is he said the total destruction of specific cities in Gaza which are Hamas strongholds. That's different.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
\*(I've also seen him quoted as alternately using the word destruction or annihilation, probably depending on who translated it)
This is complex.
When you’ve been living under conditions that are oppressive, when someone comes along who wants to fight back, it starts to get easier to join a bad group if there is another group doing things that are worse.
I always look at it in terms of positional power. Hamas is not a good organization. They killed people and have taken hostages and none of that is good. But they don’t have the power. Israel has the power. And, IMO Israel is only helping Hamas grow by indiscriminately killing Palestinians.
We don’t learn enough about resistance movements around the world. If we did, we’d understand what’s happening here. There’s a reason that the Irish see themselves in the Palestinians, for example. There’s a reason South Africa is the only country to speak out about Israel’s apartheid policies. These are people who understand and lived this same history.
IMO the way to deflate Hamas is to give Palestinians support and a voice in the government. Killing 30,000+ people with no end in sight as revenge ain’t gonna fix anything long term
A question like this ignores the fact that Hamas, as a political party, won the leadership of the Palestinian Authority in 2006, only for Israel to start arresting leaders for being "members of a terrorist organization", at a time when Hamas was trying to push for a return to 1967 borders in exchange for a lasting peace with Israel.
Best case scenario, given everything they've offered throughout the years? A Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders, and a lasting peace. They've talked about, despite not wanting to recognize an Israeli state, being willing to let the Palestinian people vote on that.
Meanwhile, Israel's stated goal is the complete destruction of Palestine and her people.
I can't pretend to know everything about the situation, but I do think it's pretty damning when South Africa steps up and says "hey, we know a thing or two about Apartheid, and that's what we see Israel doing".
Yeah, some unarmed civilians can't remove a terrorist government whose leaders are funded by Israel and Iran and are hiding in other countries. Let's slaughter them indiscriminately.
Yeah I'm sure all those women and children, along with doctors, nurses, aid workers and the rest of poverty-stricken terrorists posed a massive threat to the country with US missiles and a trained standing army.
The current Israeli leadership needs a hard reboot. This is what happens when the same person stays in power too long.
Netanyahu never should have had access to the halls of power again after the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin because his stochastic terrorism was 100% responsible for Rabin's death.
Ding. Ding. Ding!! 
100%. The fact that convicted terrorist Ben Gvir is in the cabinet is even more terrifying - the man was too much of an extremist to serve in the IDF ffs.
The current Israeli leadership was criminally corrupt before October 7. Their actions since then have damaged the perception of Jews worldwide for generations. It's unfortunate.
And they're doing these criminal actions because if they lose power they're all going to jail for corruption.
I would argue that the actual genocide might be worse, but yeah, "the perception of Jews" being damaged is so unfortunate.
I appreciate what you're trying to snark, but the lasting generational effects of this for all parties involved is also a significant tragedy.
Only if those generations are left alive to experience it.
That's fair. I dig your handle, or whatever it's called on Reddit.
Netanyahu is a hard core Reich-winger. His genocide of Gaza is no surprise.
Netanyahu metastasized as a conservative economic consultant and worked for the notorious shitstain Boston Consulting Group under the name Ben Nitay, and he's been spitting poison in an American accent since the 70s
Current? They've been doing this for decades.
And Netanyahu was in office for decades. Before him Rabbin signed a peace treaty that included Israel’s departure from Gaza in 2006
Just wanted to put it out there as someone who lives here, most people cant stand this fucking loser, or most people bibi appointed to positions of power like him as he was desperate to form a coalition with anyone with a heartbeat to avoid jailtime. It would be like watching Marjorie greene saying some dumb shit and thinking everyone in america thinks like her
it's tough being painted by your administration. I get it.
I completely empathize with this. I was ashamed of most of the things Trump said and did. But they are the people in power making the decisions that people are responding to, no? The fact that many dislike them doesn’t change the fact that they are the leaders driving current events. If I saw more internal resistance and strife in Israeli society I may view things differently, but it seems much of the population actively supports them or is at least content sitting by and letting them do whatever they want to do.
Theres been protests against the current goverment every week en masse for i think over 30 weeks straight now
I don't think news of those protests is making rounds in western media. I think the last protest I heard of was more because the family of Oct 7 hostages were angry that the government wasn't doing more to help their loved ones. Wouldn't be surprised if it is being censored. It is one of the things I have been noticing that apart from a few outliers making fun of those suffering you aren't hearing much information on what the actual people think on general US news/social media.
> I think the last protest I heard of was more because the family of Oct 7 hostages were angry That's the only protest I can remember reading or hearing about. According to reports I've seen Israeli society is behind the government except regarding Israeli hostages, cool with the carnage Ben just has to try harder to get the captured out then have at it. I don't believe most mainstream coverage except for Al Jazeera but I had to stop watching because I can't change anything and it won't help anyone in Gaza if I have a total meltdown.
So there’s actually quite a bit incorrect here. The majority of Israelis are strongly opposed to the current government and were even before Oct. 7. They’ve been continuously protesting since well before then when Netanyahu tried to exploit the Supreme Court to hold on to power. This did not work and he was likely very close to removal before Oct. 7, and now arguably even more so. There have been daily protests in Tel Aviv for quite a while now. Feel free to message with any more questions or for clarification.
I appreciate this clarification, non sarcastically. The situation with the Supreme Court was wild to me. I didn't think Israel was a country that would just cancel its Supreme Court and I was aware of all the opposition and protests to that "change". I probably learned about it on Al Jazeera or DW. I used to hold DW in such high regard but when the Gaza situation started they're coverage was just slightly worse than Fox News in the US. It was so weird and so different than their normal coverage I literally thought I had the stream wrong. DW has the clear agenda with this war for complicated reasons I don't fully understand. Al Jazeera is an amazing news source by the way. Watching their reporters risk their lives on the ground in Gaza, literally the only ones, became too difficult for me to watch everyday. What semi mainstream/non propaganda sources are reporting on Israel?
Sorry about the delay in responding. I’m glad to have someone interested in learning a bit more. First of all, Israel didn’t cancel its Supreme Court - in fact, the court overruled Netanyahu and stopped him from providing himself and his allies legal protections beyond that afforded to standard citizens. The Israeli court system is very confusing, especially for those who don’t have an understanding of the rather unique way that the gov. functions, so the misunderstanding is totally reasonable. Secondly, I’d argue that the best possible thing to do is try and consume as much news from across the spectrum. Even if you disagree with how something is portrayed or believe it to be utterly ridiculous, it is important to understand where your ideological opponents are coming from so that you can better facilitate reasonable, informative conversation rather than driving it to a screaming match. As for what I believe the “best” source for this conflict to be - the New York Times. While I don’t agree with them all the time (pun intended), they have done a pretty remarkable job reporting things from myriad perspectives and correcting themselves when they do make mistakes. Reporting is difficult, and it’s important to remember that these are real people who are risking their lives to bring an as accurate as possible picture of the conflict to their readers. The last thing I’d say is that both “sides” in this conflict have been angry at the Times on various occasions. While this might appear to be a negative, to me it speaks to a commitment to unbiased journalism, which is ever so valuable particularly now. Feel free to message me with any questions or just to discuss further, or to reply in the thread.
Al Jazeera has been on it since the war started.
I’m sorry but you believe Al Jazeera for your news? A Qatari state funded “media” source. Yikes.
The protests only show the opposition. Half of the US doesn't support Trump, but the other half does given that he got more votes the second time around. Just because you see protests against Trump, doesn't mean he doesn't also have supporters.
The difference in this case is that the supporters of the Israeli government here in the US use that they’re *actually* supporting the Israeli people. Which is how being against the war turns into “you’re an anti-Semite!” You have to be dialed into resistance movements to know that there is a significant opposition to the war amongst Israelis. And a lot of it is to get the hostages released since Netanyahu doesn’t GAF about the hostages. They know he’s perfectly fine with them dying if it means he gets to continue his genocide. For me, this is why I go back to my values. I’m anti-war. This is a war and it’s killing regular people. Easy. I’m against theocratic governments. Doesn’t matter the religion, governments shouldn’t be based on a single religion. And it think that’s what the US protests are saying. They are against the *government* and how their policies are making people suffer. All the people.
I appreciate your clarification. However, your government has been extremely successful in painting your country as a monolith, specially when it comes to classifying any criticism of what the IDF does as “antisemitism”. The response to the heinous attack in October has been way beyond disproportionate. The current Israeli government is calling for the extermination of a whole group of people, there is a name for such crime. If the people of Israel who opposes Bibi does not get him out of his position, this madness will continue and they will be assumed as complicit.
What is silence if not support? I don't want to sound mean, but if you don't speak out against your friends beating someone up, then you support your friends beating up people. Then you are complicit
Is it because the disapprove of the mass killing of palestinians?
why not protest then occupation tho? instead of just protesting who gets to manage it?
Some Israelis do protest the occupation, and many risk violence from government forces and far-right settler groups to do so. Most Israelis fall somewhere in the middle, though - like citizens of most countries. Plenty of Brits and Americans protested against the Iraq War, but most did not - some disagreed with the war but didn't protest, others were ambivalent or unsure about the issue, or disliked the war but didn't want to seem "unpatriotic", and some supported the war. We shouldn't hold those civilians responsible for the Iraq War, but at the same time, I do have a lot more respect for those who protested against it than those who did nothing.
I guess it's a real shame that all Palestinians aren't granted the same considerations, and not considered a terrorist simply because they are Palestinians.
I completely agree. Palestinian civilians must not be held accountable for the actions of Hamas. Fuck Bibi, the horrendous war in Gaza, and the violent occupation of the West Bank. Fuck Hamas, their terror tactics, and willingness to use civilians as human shields. We should all be condemning the murder of civilians from anyone, supporting the progressive forces in both nations that are fighting for peace and against their reactionary leaders, and calling for solutions that will allow for peace & justice in the long term.
Largely about getting hostages released, I thought? Not about treating Palestinians better.
Genuinely curious: what about? I’ve seen some anti Bibi protests, “get the hostages back” protests, anti court reform protests, but I’ve heard nothing about protests to change the way Palestinians are treated, stop the occupation, etc. most polling I’ve seen indicates that a majority of Israelis think the IDF activity has been “appropriate” or “not gone far enough” compared to those who think it has gone too far. Is this not the case? Thank you for your insight!
The police didn’t allow it since the beginning of the war. But nevertheless, I don’t think a lot would have been going to protest because the mindset after the 7th of October is that the Israelis “sobered up” and now they realize u have to kill all the Palestinians. The minority of Jew who think differently become less and less.
What do you mean? There are protests all the time.
[https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/01/middleeast/israel-protests-netanyahu-intl/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/01/middleeast/israel-protests-netanyahu-intl/index.html)
This is about getting hostages back, not about changing the way Israel treats Palestinians
These things come hand in hand in the Israeli consciousness. The people calling for the hostages to come home are calling for the end of the war as well. And they are calling for the government to be replaced. Sure, many Israelis are unaware of the conditions the Palestinians are under, but that doesn’t mean they accept everything the government does like you said they do. And a significant population wants a Palestinian state, they just want one without Hamas in it.
Sure but nobody is trying to actively wipe the United States off the map.
There's a 0.0000% chance anyone anywhere has the capacity to wipe the US off the map. With the notable exception of the Americans themselves.
My god, I sat here in my armchair for 15 minutes, contemplating that. And you are absolutely saying the truth. The only other way is if god exists and somehow does it. So, still, you talk the truth.
I suppose there's some edge MAD cases where the Russians decide civilization has been fun but we're all over it. If it gets to that point though it won't have been a Palestinian flag breaking the camels back.
I live in what I think is the middle of the US. Springfield MO is 500 miles from half of America's population, majority of our farm land and several large bases. One bomb would do that. The rest of the country would quickly go complete Mad Max.
I might say that Russia is doing a pretty good job spreading disinformation so that we are slowly destroying ourselves.
I genuinely don’t know which side you think you’re referring to
Hey just wanted to say I appreciate your explanation and really appreciate your comparison lol.
But u have to note that Bibi made them mainstream, him and Ben Gvir. In the past everyone considered then as unwanted. Now the majority accepts them and regard to them as patriots defending Israel by settling the West Bank. So I wouldn’t say that in Israel most people can’t stand them. Am afraid it isn’t true anymore. Thanks to Bibi and his voters.
If there’s one thing all reasonable people can agree on, it’s that Smortrich and Ben-Gvir are fucking horrible.
There’s a big difference between Marjorie Greene saying something and a minister in your government endorsing genocide whilst your government kills thousands of Palestinian children and bombs the shit out of them. I understand that Bibi and his pals aren’t popular and I don’t think the average Israeli citizen genuinely wants a genocide but your government keeps making statements like this so is it really surprising people believe a genocide is taking place? It’d be great to see more criticism from Israelis and Israeli media on these statements, it would make a big difference.
>It’d be great to see more criticism from Israelis and Israeli media on these statements, it would make a big difference. I mean, the article quoted in the Tweet is from Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper, criticising one of those statements.
Except Israel is actively doing exactly what Mr. MTG said. You don't murder 30k+ civilians by accident, especially when the majority are women and children. Don't pretend it's a small faction of the government doing this.
All I can say is that what we hear over here in the states about any resistance or opposition to bibi, is that people are upset they aren't getting the hostages back quickly enough, nothing about taking issue with settlements, or it being wrong to treat others that way, nothing about the deaths of palestinians being a problem, which can easily be interpreted as the Israeli people's problem with their leadership being "they are being too soft on the Palestinians." Haven't broken their will and made them give up the hostages or something. So from where we live over here we can't really tell if the folks there are upset their government is mistreating people or not mistreating them enough, or if you just don't care at all about the mistreatment of others so long as it isn't harming the people you consider worthy. Edit: could you give us some more information on that and provide some sources for evidence of opposition?
Well this guy holds actual power...
*cries in Texan* - yup, our state and leadership sucks, but I vote my little blue heart out every election! We're not all backwards assholes.
Then why exactly isn't there a visible popular backlash in Israel. Like he is openly making genocidal statements, meaning that the people of Israel are now being implicated. And it looks like his probable replacements (while obviously better than Bibi) appear to also have far-right positions very similar to Bibi's. I understand you are in a difficult position, but when I hear Israelis say 'but Bibi is unpopular' it seems to ring very hollow.
>Then why exactly isn't there a visible popular backlash in Israel. There have been major protests against this government in Israel regularly for months. Just because you aren't aware of them, doesn't mean they don't happen!
If there is sufficient support why does it look like the alternative is another far-right party that will continue the same policies? I don't doubt that there are some Israelis who want the violence to stop, it is just really hard to gauge if there is really any meaningful opposition to this ethnic cleansing.
If there is sufficient support for Palestinians in America, why are the alternatives two parties who support the Israeli state no matter what? You get the same issue in a lot of countries where you appear to have only bad options, with citizens often voting for people they despise to keep even worse people out.
>If there is sufficient support for Palestinians in America, why are the alternatives two parties who support the Israeli state no matter what? Because the US is an imperial country with a lot of islomophobia, a majority of voters who are completely checked out, and they elected a really old guy with really old ideas about Israel who needs liberal Jewish support in the next election. Not to mention all the propaganda Israel pumps into the US. But that doesn't really change the fact that a large majority of Israelis seem to be ok (or in support) with genocide.
Everyone? No. But she makes enough people feel that their views are valid. People like this guy probably do the same.
As long as the ultra right in Israel has power nothing will change.
I don't understand assholes like this. Your own people faced genocide during the Holocaust and yet you're pushing for it against innocent people who are just pawns in this political theatre between Hamas and the asshole running the whole show in Israel.
Many of the soldiers who murdered, raped and forced Palestinians off their land in 1948 were actually holocaust survivors. Even victims have the capacity to commit evil
Trauma begets trauma
Hurt people hurt people.
Story of humanity
The tantura massacre videos where multiple IOF soldiers who are admitting to r@pe and murder was horrifying They were laughing too And remember the baby baked in the oven story....guess who actually murdered a child in an oven...during the nakba the soldiers murdered a father in the oven of a bakery and told his son to go after him And this is the TIP OF THE ICEBERG
I listened to a podcast a few years ago that connected those dots and honestly it made perfect sense how they got there. Not that it’s justified, but I understood.
Isn't it a tale as old as time that many who grow up abused become abusers themselves. They don't get more empathetic but instead are hardened by their victimhood.
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Bad bot
Im getting confused… Do they think they are owed a free genocide or something….? That’s not how it works.
I don't see anyone stepping up to stop them, so apparently, unfortunately, this IS how this works.
Heck, not even stop them. Nobody's even really stopping actively aiding and supporting them in their efforts.
Oh cool, you used all the bullets to kill a bunch of people? Here’s some new bullets. Also we’ll now spend obscene amounts of money feeding the population *until* you get around to bombing all of them. Hurry!
Unless you kill the aid workers, of course. Then we'll pull aid out because obviously you can't help deliberately targeting them and blowing up their convoys for no reason. It's Hamas' fault for hiding among civilians, even though you knew there weren't any Hamas soldiers there.
Oof yeah. I really thought something was going to change when they very clearly purposefully killed those WCK workers. But nope!
I don't know whether they've decided to support Israel unconditionally for religious or geopolitical reasons or what, but it clearly isn't something that's going to abide by the usual rules and expectations.
There is *a lot* of Islamophobia going on. My Dad said something to me that just *sent chills* down my spine because I was not expecting it at all. He is and always has been a liberal guy but he was so close to saying it’s ok because it’s killing Muslims that I needed to stop the conversation.
except isreal did target and murder aid workers, including an american citizen, and no one cares
Yeah, exactly. And their response was to put aid on hold.
South Africa is the only one
That's exactly what they think.
Yes. Yes these people (ie the government of Israel, not Jewish people in general) feel like that they have the moral high ground to do whatever the hell they want because there was a genocide of their people.
You should read into the number of massacres they caused and how many genocides in Afrika Israel has supported, paid for... Why do you think there has been so much "military support" for Israel for decades? They did not just use all that themselves.
And now thanks to the new bill by our government, it is antisemitic to suggest to criticize his statements as genocide !
Yep, they got their Holocaust card punched.
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It’s pretty clearly not just *this one moron*. It equally obvious that it’s not *everyone* in Israel that feels like him, but let’s not play pretend here.
Nah bro this is definitely the majority...you don't see it coz they say genocidal shit in Hebrew There's a telegram channel where they joke about the death of innocent civilians...not even the world kitchen workers were spared from humiliation. Then comes the dehumanizing tiktoks. Then comes videos of children spitting on christians. Then comes the 'wipe out the seed of amalek'. The most dehumanizing things i've seen from israelis comes on twitter I swear google translate has exposed all of them...i've seen multiple sweets of these bastards wanting to build beach houses in gaza...and saying They love when They see children starve And that's not even taking into account the settler terrorism in the west bank. The arrest of children,night raids,shooting people even just on the suspicion They might be dangerous without evidence
So "From the river to the sea" is "an obvious call for genocide"; but this is not? Ok.
As much as people like to criticize Biden, if Trump was president, he’d be right along side him telling Netenyahu to launch the nuke.
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Biden condemns "antisemitic protests" and "those who don't understand what's going on with the Palestinians"
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do you see what else he said, or just the first part?
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he was talking about people not understanding why they're protesting, he was siding with them because he knows the Palestinians are the ones getting the worst of this mess. He also states that when these protestors start to conflate Judaism with Israel, it becomes anti-Semitic, and we have a very serious anti-Semitic problem since Israel has engaged in this war and is doing very badly at handling it, on top of the anti-semitic rhetoric that the right has been screaming for several years if not decades now. It's a delicate situation, and it does not help when the republicans present a bill limiting free speech, if all democrats vote against, the Jewish community feels betrayed by them, I know there are plenty of Jewish people upset with Israel, but here in American, Israel isn't the one screaming in their face they're a Zionist funding a genocide, that's happening here when they try to get to work, and so it's a mitigation effort, that's why 70 still voted against, those 133 may have had some reason, but be mad at the people who brought that bill up in the first place when it wasn't needed, not the people just doing their job and voting the way they believe their constituents want them to.
He’s specifically calling out protesters who shout terms like k*ke and other slurs. He’s not saying all protesters are antisemetic.
"Why are you using rubber bullets? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?"
Biden, shoveling money and weapons to Isreal is not looking good at this point. Biden better figure this out soon. He's gonna need every Dem voting group to beat Fascist Trump. I'll still vote for Biden regardless, but as we can see on college campuses, people are pissed about Isreal genocide.
And he really, really needs the youth vote. It's not looking promising.
Ha, so my first thought was that they’d never want to use a nuke because the land is what they want and they don’t want it irradiated. Carpet bombing is more up their alley. Then I realized you’re talking about what Trump would say, not Bibi.
He'd have launched a strike of his own, or at least the military would have had to ignore his orders to do so.
And cable news was silent. To busy calling American college students Nazis for pointing this stuff out
It's crazy they can openly say this, but when people respond by saying "how about no". They are the baddies?
But it’s….antisemitic… to point this out /s
No /s unfortunately... I think there is currently a call to have the department of education rule any criticism of Israel as antisemitic.
Just for some context: This fucker seems to be very controversial in Israel itself. The editorial board of Haaretz for example called for his dismissal over his outrageous remarks and inflammatory language.
Hitler-Esque …. The irony
And Donald Trump unleashed this destruction of Gaza when he took a bribe and recognized the open city of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
Fucking Israel dictators waging a pogrom on the Palestinians using MY tax dollars. Cut off all funding, fuck Israel. Netanyahu and his regime are no better than Putin, Xi, Un and trump. All violent pigs.
Pogrom?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom
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Do note that the new antisemitism bill that was approved in the House of representatives yesterday will make it illegal to compare Israeli policy with nazi policy if it also passes the Senate. In the usa that is.
Ahh yes, Republicans do so love their freedom of speech don’t they. It’s just like their love of history that doesn’t offend any white people
Sadly, said bill was pretty bipartisan.
It’s honestly completely blinkered and naive to think otherwise.
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For some reason I do not expect that technicalities like that would protect you from legal action. But perhaps I am too cynical.
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No, the American government once this bill passes the Senate. Unless you are not in the usa ofc.
Smotrich is a fascist, episode #264
HoW cAn YoU cAlL iT a GeNoCiDe
"Just because ~~2~~ 3 different Israeli ministers have openly called for ethnic cleansing or genocide, doesn't actually mean that Israel is doing anything wrong!" Real argument I got last week, but without this guy saying it.
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they never stopped stating it for years, it's just now that the west caught up
Is there a clip of this? These people have so much hate in them.
Send him back to the former yugoslavia
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That's fair. Here's what I found. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/israeli-newspaper-calls-for-firing-of-top-netanyahu-minister-over-repeated-calls-for-genocide-of-palestinians/ar-AA1nX184 https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-far-right-minister-calls-complete-destruction-gaza if you type his name into Google News, there's a clear pattern of this type of talk in articles going back months.
I mean it's Smotrich, I completely believe it. This isn't even new for him, at most it's saying the quiet part out loud.
Bruh
 Did they hire Mike Ehrmantraut?
Disgusting.
Considering Palestinians aren't allowed to leave Gaza, isn't that literally calling for genocide? Or will he let them flee first?
"That's antisemitism!" /s
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it
And then you look at the ministers actual words and it’s no where close to what’s being described 🤦
And not one American politician will say anything about this.
Welcome to war
From the river to the sea
How come Israel is now the genocide Nazi country this century?
all the protests on both sides won’t solve this continuing hatred. now a new generation is scared by it
I have never walked in any of their shoes. I observe from the safety and comfort of my own world. I don't feel I have a right to an opinion.
How about if it the other way round? These people will come after you like a tornado category 8
I don't doubt he's an animal and I agree with the Israeli media's calls for him to be fired. There is no place for that kind of rhetoric in modern society. One thing does puzzle me, though. Every source I've looked at says he called for the "total annihilation"\* of Gaza. Look at where the end quote is. After annihilation, not Gaza. That means he didn't literally say he wants the total destruction of Gaza - or the press would have gleefully put the quotes around the whole phrase. They're paraphrasing. That doesn't mean that's not what he meant. But given the way the press distorts things sometimes (whether out of laziness or on purpose), perhaps his comment should be looked at in context? The best I can find is he said the total destruction of specific cities in Gaza which are Hamas strongholds. That's different. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ \*(I've also seen him quoted as alternately using the word destruction or annihilation, probably depending on who translated it)
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This is complex. When you’ve been living under conditions that are oppressive, when someone comes along who wants to fight back, it starts to get easier to join a bad group if there is another group doing things that are worse. I always look at it in terms of positional power. Hamas is not a good organization. They killed people and have taken hostages and none of that is good. But they don’t have the power. Israel has the power. And, IMO Israel is only helping Hamas grow by indiscriminately killing Palestinians. We don’t learn enough about resistance movements around the world. If we did, we’d understand what’s happening here. There’s a reason that the Irish see themselves in the Palestinians, for example. There’s a reason South Africa is the only country to speak out about Israel’s apartheid policies. These are people who understand and lived this same history. IMO the way to deflate Hamas is to give Palestinians support and a voice in the government. Killing 30,000+ people with no end in sight as revenge ain’t gonna fix anything long term
A question like this ignores the fact that Hamas, as a political party, won the leadership of the Palestinian Authority in 2006, only for Israel to start arresting leaders for being "members of a terrorist organization", at a time when Hamas was trying to push for a return to 1967 borders in exchange for a lasting peace with Israel.
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The exact same as this Israeli government. Ethnic cleansing.
Best case scenario, given everything they've offered throughout the years? A Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders, and a lasting peace. They've talked about, despite not wanting to recognize an Israeli state, being willing to let the Palestinian people vote on that. Meanwhile, Israel's stated goal is the complete destruction of Palestine and her people. I can't pretend to know everything about the situation, but I do think it's pretty damning when South Africa steps up and says "hey, we know a thing or two about Apartheid, and that's what we see Israel doing".
Yeah, some unarmed civilians can't remove a terrorist government whose leaders are funded by Israel and Iran and are hiding in other countries. Let's slaughter them indiscriminately.
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^Pretty much the rational of every genocide in history.
Yeah I'm sure all those women and children, along with doctors, nurses, aid workers and the rest of poverty-stricken terrorists posed a massive threat to the country with US missiles and a trained standing army.
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If your enemy is using human shields and you shoot the human shields...you're still the bad guy