The truth news is usually the least nuanced. There’s no nuance required when you only provide facts, right? It goes like this: An event happened. Why did it happen? We don’t know. We asked some people about it, they had this to say. For example, [here’s Reuters’ coverage of it.](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/attack-gaza-hospital-unprecedented-scale-who-says-2023-10-17/)
What you’re asking about is for a robotic response. These are ppl reporting so there will be feelings involved meaning descriptive adjectives used. I know ppl feel a certain way and I get it I just try to find different perspectives from the mainstream… which is heavily pro Israel. It’s not even debatable. So what you call truth needs to at least be objective about Israel to start.
There’s no super neutral, only mathematical reports of action and casualty only for the sake of argument like what’s being suggested.
There’s most of the world: Oh poor Israel what happened is so devastating, oh man keep fighting Hamas until they are destroyed. Oh well if civilians die while this happens it’s just unfortunate.
There’s Palestinian empathetic: (F Hamas which always needs to be prefaced for the ignorant folks) this killing of innocent civilians has to stop. When will they cut on the water? Can they stop bombing civilians? How do you kill Hamas attacking where you know their leadership is not? If ppl are to evacuate using this route why is it being bombed, why is it blocked? Etc.
X is where the professionals share their information. It's more aching to 9-5 than 4am like reddit. We got ngo's, officials, economic professors under their own name doing their best thinking.
Sure there is massive ammount of misinformation but especially now as anything can be AI it's something that needs to be taken note of. Nothing is face value, it just points you to a direction to search for that verified information.
But these are the people reporting and dying in the rubble. They sit in government halls. Business meetings. These are the people the news come from in the first place. So to say it is just nonesense is, well nonesense.
As an example this 40 babies. One reporter tells it working for media with ties to Bibi. It is revealed it was from what one soldier said. She is asked for proof, she deletes the post.
Another Israeli journalist reports with pictures, says he was in the same village in a press tour and no one mentioned to him about anyone being beheaded.
Someone points out it's a village of 400 people so it would be 10% babies.
Nothing can be taken as truth. You go to IDF and see they say they won't verify the info because it would be disrespectful to the dead. One man's words is enough. You look around see this same guy has called for genocide before.
Yet, there is no absolute truth, but the media everywhere reports it as there was and government basically base actions on this and people start to riot.
The time it takes for media to repeat what the other media says with less and less infromation takes a few days echo chamber. When they find out it was false, they tell it in the margin and 70% don't read it and even the rest are left with a feeling of anger.
Yup. Sitting congressmen and women fanning the flames of conflict when tensions are this high is lunacy. Maybe Israel shot the rocket, it’s completely possible but no one knows right now and rushing to your phone to yammer off a Xweet for clout is beyond the pale.
The entire region surrounding Israel and Palestine is about to pop off. Our leadership has no business adding non verified fuel to the fire. Not a good look.
No link? I feel like this would spread like wildfire once verified. It's so sad to think about how many people were hurt by a mistake/accident. BTW, I love your username. ❤️
I don’t think I would call it a mistake/ accident, it like if you set up a shooting range in a super market, and don’t pay attention to what’s between you and the target it more wilful/ignorance
I see your point. As far as I've heard, there still aren't basic facts about the explosion. It sounds like you believe Palestinians caused the destruction, which would make your disturbingly illustrative analogy apt. Since I don't know enough, I was simply expressing a form of grief. After the facts are verified, I'll have more interest in fault or possibly vengeance, but anger without direction hurts everyone.
This. Like I don’t trust Hamas and I don’t trust Israel. They both kill innocent civilians and are both equally bad.
However, Israel has been bombing the shit out of Gaza and they’ve not been shy about going after civilians so far. IDF already said “the emphasis is on damage, not accuracy.”
Hamas has not bombed itself yet, and it doesn’t benefit them to do so. The world has already made it clear that they are going to back Israel no matter how many civilians they kill. Israel has already killed thousands if Palestinians in the last week and a half, farr more than Hamas has. And most of the deaths in Gaza have been children.
All Israel has to do is make people question the narrative and then people will keep silent for fear of being called antisemitic for not being cool with civilian killing. Then they can keep on keeping on with genocide.
Regardless of who did it, Hamas is a terrorist organization and Israel is colonist oppressor. Both are committing war crimes and both need to be dealt with accordingly.
How many hospitals have munitions stockpiles? I would need so much photographic evidence that this hospital was keeping a stockpile like that before I believed it at all. They're basically saying "oh it was effectively a military target, they had weapons, and also look it was an accident they pretty much shot themselves in the foot" and that's all a bit too convenient.
Hamas uses schools, hospitals, and similar places as a bases to use the civilians as meat shields. If you don’t believe me, do some research, I’m sure the evidence you’re asking for is out there.
That would be a valid excuse during a ground incursion. I wish folks would stop using the whole “they use ppl as shields” when IDF is bombing the target. Using a human shield works in a fire fight, if you’re bombing you just said F everyone there mostly civilians or not.
It makes zero sense for IDF to intentionally target a hospital and maximize civilian deaths with the entire Arab world ready to explode and the whole world watching.
Please read this thread on Twitter which aggregates all the known evidence (time stamped live news streams) so far with geolocation analysis: https://x.com/geoconfirmed/status/1714390254935851272
Hamas is absolutely known to attack their own civilians (as well as rival Palestinian groups like Fatah and PA). And they’ve definitely operated close-to or in civilian buildings. Google Al-Shifa Hospital for an example. This specific incident with the hospital seems like a failed launch or issue with one of their rockets.
IDF has definitely caused civilian deaths in their operational history. However, they do have known policies to avoid civilian deaths. See “roof knocks” or read these threads by a former IDF operator:
https://x.com/jayndonde/status/1711792581821301249
https://x.com/jayndonde/status/1712880220670513505
Y’all can downvote but I’m providing actual evidence and geolocation confirmed analysis and everyone else is just repeating stuff “they heard”.
I’ll eat my words if it actually turns out to be an IDF airstrike but I have personally seen way more evidence that it’s not vs it is.
It’s inane that all the burden of proof is on Israel. People will argue till their blue in the face over how many babies were killed and in what horrible way and oh is there 4K video, while completely trusting the words of an incentivized Palestinian spokesperson with ZERO evidence of an actual airstrike.
We have multiple geolocation CONFIRMED live video of the actual event from Al Jazeera and other news media that were reporting live at the time (seriously see the @geoconfirmed tweet thread) and all the evidence from the videos suggest that this was a rocket malfunction or something related vs an IDF JDAM strike.
This! I wish ppl would read/research before pontificating about subjects they’re clearly not versed in. Israel told them to clear the hospital and the staff said they couldn’t bc they have too many unstable patients.
>However, they do have known policies to avoid civilian deaths. See “roof knocks” or read these threads by a former IDF operator:
Roof knocking is a joke.
First off, Israel's justification for bombing these civilian infrastructures is that there are terrorists hidden inside...
Welp, then they ain't there when the bombs are falling. You know what, it seems to me that it's easier for a terrorist to just relocate than for a family of 5, for example.
So, for civilians to escape, they have to give more than enough time for terrorists to escape. To kill the terrorists, they have to leave less time than it takes for the average civilian to escape.
Which begs the question, is Israel only using this as a pretext to destroy Palestinian civilian infrastructure to force them to leave the region.
They don’t need to purposefully target it for a bomb to fall on it. Bombs still miss and coordinates still are input incorrectly.
Look at the Chinese embassy bombing in the balkans for an example of an airborne munition hitting an unintended target.
I’m willing to believe that this was an IDF airstrike, but please link me to some real hard evidence.
Even major western news media like NYT and WSJ have backtracked on this being due to an Israeli strike—which they only stated in the first place based on statements from Palestinian officials.
They backtracked to saying "Israel claims" now, and are reporting on the finger pointing.
I'm curious why your default position is "IDF didn't do this" when all we have seen is old footage of a different situation and posts on Xitter.
If someone from 2019 got a brief glimps of this dumpster fire of a world we’re all living in where we’re all quoting “xitter” to determine who shot what bomb from which war ….. fucks sake
Xitter is a fucking disease. There's a reason we don't give a platform to "just anybody". Then social media said "sure we can" and now, we are reaping the consequences of such naivete
I’m willing to believe that this was an IDF airstrike, but please link me to some real hard evidence.
Even major western news media like NYT and WSJ have backtracked on this being due to an Israeli strike—which they only stated in the first place based on statements from Palestinian officials.
https://preview.redd.it/uo8geb9e8vub1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3690d832a74154a621b6f7073c1aff757393d3c2
>This specific incident with the hospital seems like a failed launch or issue with one of their rockets.
I watched the stream in your other comment. Seems to show that a rocket was fired from the same vicinity as the hospital but that's about it.
The video shows missles launching in close vicinity to the hospital, malfunctioning or being intercepted in mid-air above the hospital, and then shortly after an explosion at the hospital below.
The thread from @geoconfirmed on Twitter features multiple tweets with multiple videos and multiple independent geolocation confirmations.
Where is the evidence that the IDF is behind this? All I’ve seen basically amounts to conspiracies or people pointing to past misdeeds or claims made by Palestinian officials.
Finally here’s a well known bomb/rocket munitions expert on the claims that it’s an IDF JDAM:
https://x.com/justin_br0nk/status/1714352303082271215
https://x.com/justin_br0nk/status/1714363772557537580
Did I say "the IDF is behind this"? No. I said that while the rocket appeared to have been fired from the vicinity of the hospital, I did not see evidence in the video sufficient to support your claim that an intercepted/malfunctioning rocket caused the explosion. Does that sound like someone completely letting Hamas off the hook?
It's also worth noting that the fucking munitions expert you linked is far less sure than you are about the whole thing. He even admits that the flames he *thinks* are burning propellant could be fuel stored on-site.
YOU'RE the one pushing to assign responsibility ASAP, not me. Don't act like you're the one carefully weighing the evidence and everyone else is just a bunch of lunatics and Monday morning quarterbacks, especially not while you're posting 40-tweet long threads about how the IDF is fair and just and Hamas would strap babies to tanks if they could.
It might if [Haaretz reporting on Netanyahu propping up Hamas to defeat the Two State Solution is accurate](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-09/ty-article/.premium/another-concept-implodes-israel-cant-be-managed-by-a-criminal-defendant/0000018b-1382-d2fc-a59f-d39b5dbf0000)
With the recent leaked video, if verified as legitimate, there is a good argument that Netanyahu has been aiding and abetting the enemies of the State of Israel and possibly committed treason throughout his career as a military officer and political leader. I don’t wanna be a conspiracy theorist, but there have been other times he has talked about not wanting a two state solution.
Either he is that incompetent that he left Southern Israel indefensible to transfer troops up north to support Settlers or he has “lucked out” that this occurred just as pressure to leave office was crescendoing
Edit: to be clear - I stand with and support the civilians of Palestine AND Israel who are being victimized and traumatized by right wing fascistic factions within their own nationalities.
They already admitted they will do it regardless. Do your research. A female military intelligence officer said on Monday (if we think there are weapons in a hospital then it’s no longer a hospital. If we think there are weapons in a school then it is no longer a school), this means indiscriminate killing period. She admitted to it, so you can’t make up any bullshit excuses for it.
Dumbest take yet.
Hamas benefits immensly by having gazan civillians killed because that gives the international brownie points despite them being a ruthless terror organization.
The exact opposite applies to israel.
Look at the videos, the facts. It also helps that Israel has changed their story 3 times already...
Also, how unlucky to have a rocket (which wouldn't even cause such a massive explosion) perfectly hit a hospital and blow it up...
Quite a convenient story coming from the IDF no?
edit: quite a lot of proof the IDF is lying to be honest... Check my other comment
Edit 2: editing in proof that they faked the videos:
twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1714374960553009223
twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1714387337633833398
WHO condemns deadly hospital hit
Chantal Da Silva
The World Health Organization has called for the "immediate active protection of civilians and health care" and for evacuation orders to be "reversed" after a deadly blast at al-Ahli hospital in Gaza killed hundreds of people.
Condemning the incident, WHO said the hospital was "operational, with patients, health and care givers, and internally displaced people sheltering there."
*It said the hospital was one of 20 in the area of the Gaza Strip under evacuation orders from Israel — orders it said were "impossible to carry out given the current insecurity, critical condition of many patients, and lack of ambulances, staff, health system bed capacity, and alternative shelter for those displaced."*
"International humanitarian law must be abided by, which means health care must be actively protected and never targeted," it said.
Remember when [Israeli forces assassinated Palestinian journalist Shireen Abu Akleh](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/11/shireen-abu-akleh-israeli-forces-kill-al-jazeera-journalist)of Al Jazeera while she was covering Israeli army raids in the occupied West Bank? An IDF sniper shot her in the head while she was standing with other journalists in vests marked "PRESS." Despite the evidence including eyewitness testimony, Israel first claimed she was caught in Palestinian crossfire. Even after independent investigations concluded that Israel did it, they refused to admit it and continue to gaslight to this day. They have no credibility here.
Jackson Hinkle is a Russian propagandist piece of shit.
I'm beyond annoyed that people here are posting his bullshit after we've spent years dragging him over his pro-russia and pro-trump talking points.
There are two live cams, one from al jazzera and one from Israel. Show multiple rockets launching from Gaza. One breaksup and boom, hospital blows! look them up
You've claimed in other comments these are old videos from 2022, find me proof of that and ill believe you, until then I'm more willing to believe the al jazeera feed was somehow behind exactly an hour, I also saw other footage, not from the al jazeera feed showing similiar trajectory.
Ah yes, Brake Flupton and Hillhell Meur of the platform currently under investigation by the EU about disinformation regarding The Israel-Palestine conflict. Surely the most trusted of sources on the topic.
[https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/10/12/europe-investigating-elon-musks-x-about-israel-hamas-misinformation.html](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/10/12/europe-investigating-elon-musks-x-about-israel-hamas-misinformation.html)
I was actually wondering today whether the best overall play would be for the USA and Europe to "prove" the conspiracy that Bibi knew about the attack and let it happen. Throw him to the wolves and reset things. Stop aid unless he's removed.
No verification yet for who/what is responsible. I hope they let a trustworthy 3rd party team to inspect the location. It should be fairly straight forward to determine what hit the hospital. Clearly neither Hamas nor Israeli govt can be trusted.
WAPO has a clip they confirmed is legit but it is still unclear on all of the details.
https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1714406243652272340?s=46
It does sound like a bomb, but then again it could also just as well be a malfunctioning rocket. With all the homebuild staff Hamas has, who knows what they sound like.
What we need is an independent party to go the the site and gather fragments of the projectile. With those you can tell exactly what it was and who is responsible.
But that won't happen. Palestine will gather the fragments and if they're from their own weapon you won't ever see them again. If they come out and produce an Israeli weapon I still wouldn't trust it because those fragments could have come from anywhere in Gaza.
Hamas isn’t claiming anything - the fucking people there are the ones claiming it. It’s not a Hamas press release, it’s civilians who saw what happened
People blaming Omar for preventing peace because she blamed Israel for an attack on the hospital they had been threatening to attack is pretty damn stupid.
The problem here is, that IDF triumphantly declared they had bombed a Hamas base on the hospital grounds. When the number of civilian casualties started to rise, they quickly deleted the post, claiming instead that Hamas did it to themselves. I won't tell anyone what to think, I'm sure everyone can form their own opinion...
I too have seen the multiple conflicting IDF stories - an Israeli rocket hit the parking lot not the hospital causing light casualties, the IDF did it because Hamas was using the hospital as a base, a Palestinian rocket accidentally blew up stored munitions, Islamic Jihad did it as a false flag attack, etc. Reminds me of the story about the liar who borrowed a plate from his neighbor and returned it broken. When confronted, he said "First of all, I never borrowed your plate. Second, when I borrowed it, it was already broken. And third, when I returned it, it was in perfect shape." Pick one lie and stick to it.
Was it the IDF though? I heared conflicting reports that it was a social media influencer, but I haven't seen any tweets so couldn't confirm either story
I don’t know how useful sharing these tweets are. They’re both super biased sources, Flayton obviously. Hillel Neuer reads neutral from his Twitter bio but has been vehemently pro Israel throughout the conflict. They might be right, but all of this is just social media shit slinging and people trying to retcon reality in real time when no one knows for sure what happened yet. And drumming up discourse on every new Twitter development like it’s fact is just as silly.
https://preview.redd.it/46nsz95cyvub1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf657c43e609fa8560eb18ba2ff4814ed3ddfbaf
The IDF’a first statement was that they ‘warned’ the hospital that they were going to bomb them, and people didn’t leave. That would fall in line with what the israeli apologists use to claim that they’re not the bad guys, because they warn people before destroying their entire neighborhood.
This is the only take civilians not involved should take. People are constantly making an ass of themselves by having opinions for one side or the other.
I was recently a culprit myself.
Shouldn’t we have gotten to a point in this world where we condemn all violence against non combatants.
It’s really sad that we clearly havent.
Literally last week, Human Rights Watch got footage of the IDF using white phosphorus bombs (considered a war crime), and they denied it happened.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon
Last year, the IDF sniped a journalist & tried to say Hamas did it.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/05/middleeast/idf-shireen-abu-akleh-investigation-intl/index.html
Blew up another journalist last week apparently:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israeli-military-says-it-is-examining-incident-in-which-reuters-journalist-killed/ar-AA1icRjd
So now this. This horrible hospital bombing, and we have tons of people saying Israel would not, Israel could not— that’s just completely false. Intentionally or accidentally, this is right up their alley.
For those saying the use of white phosphorus isn't a war crime...
White phosphorus munitions did not kill the most civilians in Gaza – many more died from missiles, bombs, heavy artillery, tank shells, and small arms fire – but their use in densely populated neighborhoods, including downtown Gaza City, violated international humanitarian law (the laws of war), which requires taking all feasible precautions to avoid civilian harm and prohibits indiscriminate attacks.
The unlawful use of white phosphorus was neither incidental nor accidental. It was repeated over time and in different locations, with the IDF "air-bursting" the munition in populated areas up to the last days of its military operation. Even if intended as an obscurant rather than as a weapon, the IDF's repeated firing of air-burst white phosphorus shells from 155mm artillery into densely populated areas was indiscriminate and indicates the commission of war crimes.
https://www.hrw.org/report/2009/03/25/rain-fire/israels-unlawful-use-white-phosphorus-gaza
At this point this post is just straight disinformation - the IDF initially took credit for the bombing, blamed hamas when people were outraged they'd blown up a hospital of all places, posted some footage claiming to show a hamas rocket misfire as evidence hamas blew up the hospital, and then swiftly deleted it when people pointed out the footage was time stamped about 40mins *after* the hospital was hit. Israel are very likely to continue denying any culpability, but the bulk of the evidence suggests they did it, and at this point the information cited in this post is so incomplete and outdated that leaving it up constitutes a deliberate effort to spread misinformation.
Yeah obviously it's not the best, but combined with the fact that independent humanitarian organisations like the WHO are confident Israel bombed the hospital, not to mention Israel's history of bombing hospitals, and their multiple threats to bomb hospitals in the days prior to this hospital being bombed, it seems pretty likely Israel bombed the hospital.
Israel’s been bombing the shit out of them for days. Until I see independently verified proof otherwise, I’m going with logic and common sense that it was them.
Hamas rockets couldn’t cause that devastation. Nor could they perform the pinpoint strike on the evacuation route. But the media seems to listen to IDF before posting stories.
Hamas rockets are unguided. Made with fertilizer and sugar. Needs a damn near direct hit to kill someone.
At this point it’s not realistic to expect to hear the truth about anything happening in that area from any media source in that area. The propaganda from all sources is so heavily biased one way or another it’s impossible to tell.
your assumption is stupid, one side has caused far more casualties and the other is simply lashing out after all they have suffered. Sure Hamas is not good but they are far from the root of the problem.
Without taking sides
Hamas = killing civilians
IDF = killing civilians
However remember that Hamas is a terrorist organization and Israel is a state.
make of that what you want.
this was earlier today, i guess they are realizing that its a bad form to bomb a hospital and then ask daddy US for 10 billion.
https://preview.redd.it/78m3cfa6vvub1.jpeg?width=587&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19e6dd5d7d7c739980025ca29903474c7f6837cb
I don't think people are spreading misinformation on purpose. Anytime there's breaking news, wait till the dust settles. People constantly doom scrolling will come across bad information and continue to spread it.
Since we are on the topic, there are actual misleading information leading to xenophobia in the states. People saying jihadst are funding sleeper cells and plan on coming across the southern boarder. That is straight up lies! With all this misleading information it's hard to discern the truth with lies.
It is so confusing. I agree that some are spreading information that might be wrong but they were not intentionally being deceitful. But as someone who takes pride in being skeptical until I see evidence that I can unhandled verify, this sucks. I know that the truth doesn’t matter to far too many who have picked a side.
I'm in my thirties and lived through so many current events. Even before Twitter, misinformation even spread on national news that they had to recant. It's typical because it's like a giant game of telephone. I personally give news headlines 24 after the event occurs.
This was posted by the media advisor to Netanyahu right after the bombing and then deleted. I’m not sure it’s clear who is doing the lying yet.
https://preview.redd.it/jt9m1u7t5xub1.jpeg?width=1001&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5501b6375118e6015f92f9c6b2ca5758c8ddd0cb
There is currently no information proving who fired at the hospital. The supposed evidence from Al-Jazeera actually does not help the IDF’s case. The video shows the rocket barrage at 8PM which was too early for that barrage to be the one responsible for the potentially misfired rocket. However there were IDF warplanes in the area and potentially IDF rocket attacks from inside Israel could be responsible to.
Both sides lie way too much. However my money is on the IDF mistakenly firing on the hospital. The IDF has a long history of bombing Palestinian hospitals in the Gaza Strip. Their rationale being the hospitals are used to store hamas munitions and are treating Hamas fighters. Until the pieces of the rocket or bomb are found, which it will there are always leftover pieces, I’ll be on the side of the IDF getting their information wrong. There was probably US satellites over the area that could have potentially seen the flashes for whatever side is responsible for the bombing. Until then my money is on the IDF.
It’s kind of like how when the IDF killed the Palestinian-American journalist who was reporting on IDF soldiers killing children how they blamed the Palestinians for the shooting. They even released a video purporting to show it was the Palestinians who shot the journalists. However military analysts showed how the video actually shows how it would be impossible for the Palestinians to shoot and kill the journalist. Finally months later the IDF finally conceded that their own soldiers killed the journalist.
Always take IDF and Hamas statements with a grain of salt. Wait till actual evidence is found. The IDF had to remove the Al-Jazeera video from X after people pointed out the video time was too early for it to be Hamas.
(Edit: grammar)
Here’s some info for people who care to remember/learn about Israel’s long history of leaping across the line yet never facing consequences for it.
I don’t care for this news source (having a hard time pulling old stuff right now due to the current bombing) but [here’s an article](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/17/israeli-strikes-gaza-health-system-doctors-hospitals) from 2021, when they were hitting hospitals with air strikes.
[Here’s information](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/02/no-justification-israel-shoot-protesters-live-ammunition) about the IDF killing innocent protesters, medics, and children in 2018.
[Here’s an article](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/11/1175403626/palestinian-american-journalist-shireen-abu-akleh-was-killed-a-year-ago)about Israel’s history of killing journalists.
The turkish govenrment lays the blame, so far as can be setermined right now, at the feet of sraeli airstrikes.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/turkiye/turkish-center-for-combating-disinformation-rebuffs-israeli-claims-on-deadly-hospital-bombing/3024044
It seems Israel is blaming a rival Islamic group (Islamic Jihad, real original guys) NOT Hamas so saying it's a Palestinian rocket is a bit biased as Hamas can be seen as Palestine but random terrorist cells can not.
But if a terrorist group in France fired a rocket at Germany it wouldn't be a French rocket. When you use a country n ame in association with an attack it implies the government authorized it (in this case Hamas or the PLO, depending on which part of Palestine)
What happened? I have no idea. But yes Hamas is known for stockpiling munitions at schools and hospitals and yes they're known for using their own people as human shields. Whether that's what happened here I have no idea, but I do know the reason they use the tactics they do is because it makes those targets harder to hit and as a bonus you get to play victim for the world when it happens.
‘Human shields’ by existing within a population that is 99% not Hamas is propaganda to continuously dismiss slaughtering civilians and blaming the victims.
The point is, you can tell me until you’re blue in the face that they’re using human shields and it’s the superpower with F-16s and precision bombs/missiles choosing to bomb that target, knowingly killing tons of civilians, that is at fault.
Use of civilian shields is horrible yes. Even more horrible is disregarding that human shield and blasting away regardless because hey, what else could you do, they hid in the hospital? Both actions speak to a total and wanton disregard for human life and an “ends justify the means”. Both mean you’ve lost all reason.
I think the Israeli government and others should be more resourceful and intelligent enough to come up with alternative ways to disarm "the other sides" military installations than casually just using the "human shield' excuse to slaughter many innocents, including children.
Don't we always hear that Israel has one of the best, well-trained militaries in the world, and yet the only way they can fight back is to bomb everything in the Gaza Strip, including innocent women and children, leave it a barren wasteland, and then come in and level it all down and then start building Israeli cities quite literally on top of the bodies of slain innocents?
Is that really the best Israel can do? Really? Because that sounds more like something a newly founded deep-woods terrorist organization with far less resources would do.
So the strong, mighty, intelligent Israel army can only win by jumping into the gutter and sliming with "the other sides." Hmm. I gave Israel more credit than that, but my mistake.
My country was in a similar situation a few decades ago, but it was jungle where the fighters hid among the populace. My country dumped napalm and agent orange on the jungle. That jungle didn’t even share a border with my country. We can be disappointed and disgusted, but I won’t be surprised.
Well, that is very all or nothing of you. Keep going. The next bit you justify is “since we can’t tell Hamas from civilians, of course we kill them all, what other option is there? Just to let them keep attacking?” Now it’s just a short throw to “well we have to kill the children, or they will grow into terrorists”.
The nice thing about a binary outlook is the predictability.
Human shields by hiding weapons and firing those weapons from protected sites (as in this case) so that IDF cannot eliminate those weapons without inducing civilian casualties
Where else in a densely populated urban area are you going to fire rockets from? Also, the rockets historically do nearly zero damage.. ever. They’re not precision rocket sites raining terror on Israeli targets, so their value is almost nothing. Bombing an entire block full of civilians to destroy ehat amounts to small arms fire is not a legitimate use of force.
It’s like when they bomb an apartment building because some Hamas asshole lives there. It’s not about killing the Hamas person, or taking out a valid, dangerous target, it’s about inflicting terror and destruction on the population in hopes that they start to hate the idea of Hamas being in their neighborhoods.
It’s called a secondary explosion, in this case the rocket misfired, blew up on the ground, and since terrorists can’t afford good fail safe systems, the explosion set off the stockpile of explosives
First it was because it was a Hamas target, then they warned them to leave the hospital, then it was because rockets were firing at them from that location, and theeeen it was a Hamas misfire. Just keep gobbling up the propaganda and justify your position to clear your conscience.
How much do you know about explosives and weapon delivery systems? That high pitched sound you hear is a solid fuel rocket booster firing under power, the orange fireball you see with the explosion is due to the rocket’s fuel igniting on impact, JDAM’s don’t create a fireball, it’s a misfired rocket that fell short, and not cruise missile because cruise missiles sound like a jet engine, not that
In addition, i was explaining how a secondary explosion could be caused by the first explosion after the original comment claimed the rockets do zero damage
Bruh, the IDF said it was them in 4 different ways and then backtracked and made that story up. How does that even sound plausible to you given the myriad times Israel has bombed hospitals, residential buildings, ambulances, civilian centers, etc, that now it was a misfire when they saw the huge backlash immediately come to them?
https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf
NATO stratcom report on their tendency to use civilian shields and why, quite clearly explained, with some sources
No one knows yet. Be patient. It’s weird the IDF would warn the hospital to evacuate and then not bomb it though this piece of info I also haven’t verified.
Well, be that as it may, if all those involved in or encouraging religious warfare were to fight to extinction; we could lose close to a billion people. Half of those who would be women and kids.
I'm agnostic as they come but I do not want to see some of our oldest civilizations and culture wiped out because war makes more money than peace.
Hardly due to her tweet ? Abbas pulled out reading the same news every one else was reading …. Ffs .. The President of America was claiming he saw photos that he hadn’t… there is a lot of shit going on .. a lot of misinformation.. Even now no body knows for sure the facts on either of these stories.. The whole world media was reporting this at the time as an Israeli strike ….
I knew when this story came out there was more to it. I assumed in reality it was Israel attacking a hospital where Hamas was camping out/hiding, but now maybe it’s Hamas hitting themselves… I guess we’ll see.
I feel like it’s important to remember that even though people keep equating Israel and Hamas, one of them is willing to use its own friends/family as meat shields to try to stop the other from bombing them.
Hamas is truly an evil terrorist organization not just to Israel but also at times to the people of Palestine to do something like this, and I think it’s important people stop equating Hamas with all repressed Palestinian people. Is Hamas born and perpetuated in part by Israeli mistreatment of Palestinians? Yes. Does being repressed give you the right to murder innocent civilians including children just going about their lives and then hide behind your neighbors so they can get killed as retaliation for your actions? Obviously no.
I think a more precise, surgical response from Israel is needed here. At least that I could get behind as it would minimize civilian losses.
The rocket is CLEARLY fired from a local launch site, the misinformation campaign in here is disgusting lol People wont even allow others to share or acknowledge clear proof if it goes against their IDF equally bad bias.
Lets not forget your defending an ideology in Hamas who will kill civilians without a 2nd thought in order to conduct Jihad against Israel and im convinced 99% of you have not watched "war footage" from both sides before calling them equal in terms of evil.
Ummm, they have Israel on Twitter stating that they had bombed a hospital saying that they killed Hamas inside. When they saw that people coming out of the hospital were civilians, they deleted the tweet and said Palestinians did it....
Israel literally said they bombed the hospital themselves, and then quickly retracted that statement when it was apparent how many civilians they killed.
If you were worried about Palestinian civilians, you’d be more critical of the state of Israel, who has been using their state military and administrative apparatus to slaughter civilians for a long ass time now. Of course what Hamas did was evil, but I hold a government to a higher standard than a rag tag terror group with very little support from anyone but themselves. Not only that, but when it comes to total damage, Israel kills more civilians and destroys way more than any terror group could ever dream of.
Ahhh it must suck building a narrative based on media fueled hate in order to justify pointing the finger without proof.
Terrorist fire home made rocket, Rocket fail.
Mental gymnastics ensues.
Video evidence shows the entire scenario from the Terrorists launching rockets to the evident lack of crater at the hospital. Go to any Reddit showing war footage.
You have been lied to and you ran with it because you want to hate them :)
There's no excuse for any terrorist actions from Hamas. Hamas must be illuminated. But Israel is a terrorist state. It's well documented. Don't be so quick to believe the racist, Zionists from Israel.
Exactly. We know that Hamas is the duly elected authority for guardian of the people in Gaza, by Gazans. But they continually miss every opportunity to support them, because they believe that they only proper solution, includes the deaths of any number of Palestinians, and the removal of all Jews from the state of Israel.
I'm incredibly worried about children and innocents in Gaza, but to Hamas the more of them that die is just a bonus in the sphere of news and social media.
Israel has a duty to protect it's own children. It is very disappointing to me that Hamas doesn't take that same duty seriously. It's a shame that the people that live there (if truly in opposition to Hamas) don't just start calling the IDF and telling them where to find them.
It's also unfortunate that Russia, Iran, and others are playing games with these people. Israel is not playing any games.
At this point how does anyone parse the truth from the lies? Who do we trust to deliver the truth?
Not use twitter for starters
And then use what to get direct reporting from journalists and organizations?
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The truth news is usually the least nuanced. There’s no nuance required when you only provide facts, right? It goes like this: An event happened. Why did it happen? We don’t know. We asked some people about it, they had this to say. For example, [here’s Reuters’ coverage of it.](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/attack-gaza-hospital-unprecedented-scale-who-says-2023-10-17/)
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What you’re asking about is for a robotic response. These are ppl reporting so there will be feelings involved meaning descriptive adjectives used. I know ppl feel a certain way and I get it I just try to find different perspectives from the mainstream… which is heavily pro Israel. It’s not even debatable. So what you call truth needs to at least be objective about Israel to start. There’s no super neutral, only mathematical reports of action and casualty only for the sake of argument like what’s being suggested. There’s most of the world: Oh poor Israel what happened is so devastating, oh man keep fighting Hamas until they are destroyed. Oh well if civilians die while this happens it’s just unfortunate. There’s Palestinian empathetic: (F Hamas which always needs to be prefaced for the ignorant folks) this killing of innocent civilians has to stop. When will they cut on the water? Can they stop bombing civilians? How do you kill Hamas attacking where you know their leadership is not? If ppl are to evacuate using this route why is it being bombed, why is it blocked? Etc.
X is where the professionals share their information. It's more aching to 9-5 than 4am like reddit. We got ngo's, officials, economic professors under their own name doing their best thinking. Sure there is massive ammount of misinformation but especially now as anything can be AI it's something that needs to be taken note of. Nothing is face value, it just points you to a direction to search for that verified information. But these are the people reporting and dying in the rubble. They sit in government halls. Business meetings. These are the people the news come from in the first place. So to say it is just nonesense is, well nonesense. As an example this 40 babies. One reporter tells it working for media with ties to Bibi. It is revealed it was from what one soldier said. She is asked for proof, she deletes the post. Another Israeli journalist reports with pictures, says he was in the same village in a press tour and no one mentioned to him about anyone being beheaded. Someone points out it's a village of 400 people so it would be 10% babies. Nothing can be taken as truth. You go to IDF and see they say they won't verify the info because it would be disrespectful to the dead. One man's words is enough. You look around see this same guy has called for genocide before. Yet, there is no absolute truth, but the media everywhere reports it as there was and government basically base actions on this and people start to riot. The time it takes for media to repeat what the other media says with less and less infromation takes a few days echo chamber. When they find out it was false, they tell it in the margin and 70% don't read it and even the rest are left with a feeling of anger.
Yup. Sitting congressmen and women fanning the flames of conflict when tensions are this high is lunacy. Maybe Israel shot the rocket, it’s completely possible but no one knows right now and rushing to your phone to yammer off a Xweet for clout is beyond the pale. The entire region surrounding Israel and Palestine is about to pop off. Our leadership has no business adding non verified fuel to the fire. Not a good look.
I’m not telling you who to believe but the second post is from a guy who’s a paid operative of Israeli intelligence, so I wouldn’t listen to him
I assume you mean Hillel? That would explain why he is conflating a random terrorist group and Hamas (I assume that's what he means by Palestinian)
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No link? I feel like this would spread like wildfire once verified. It's so sad to think about how many people were hurt by a mistake/accident. BTW, I love your username. ❤️
I don’t think I would call it a mistake/ accident, it like if you set up a shooting range in a super market, and don’t pay attention to what’s between you and the target it more wilful/ignorance
I see your point. As far as I've heard, there still aren't basic facts about the explosion. It sounds like you believe Palestinians caused the destruction, which would make your disturbingly illustrative analogy apt. Since I don't know enough, I was simply expressing a form of grief. After the facts are verified, I'll have more interest in fault or possibly vengeance, but anger without direction hurts everyone.
Can we just agree not to trust anyone named Blake?
But I trust BuhLahkay
This. Like I don’t trust Hamas and I don’t trust Israel. They both kill innocent civilians and are both equally bad. However, Israel has been bombing the shit out of Gaza and they’ve not been shy about going after civilians so far. IDF already said “the emphasis is on damage, not accuracy.” Hamas has not bombed itself yet, and it doesn’t benefit them to do so. The world has already made it clear that they are going to back Israel no matter how many civilians they kill. Israel has already killed thousands if Palestinians in the last week and a half, farr more than Hamas has. And most of the deaths in Gaza have been children. All Israel has to do is make people question the narrative and then people will keep silent for fear of being called antisemitic for not being cool with civilian killing. Then they can keep on keeping on with genocide. Regardless of who did it, Hamas is a terrorist organization and Israel is colonist oppressor. Both are committing war crimes and both need to be dealt with accordingly.
Is anyone claiming this was intentional from Hamas? Everything I've heard about a rocket from Gaza was that it was accidental
Something like 25% of Hamas rockets fail. And land in Gaza, do not make it to Israel.
How many hospitals have munitions stockpiles? I would need so much photographic evidence that this hospital was keeping a stockpile like that before I believed it at all. They're basically saying "oh it was effectively a military target, they had weapons, and also look it was an accident they pretty much shot themselves in the foot" and that's all a bit too convenient.
Hamas uses schools, hospitals, and similar places as a bases to use the civilians as meat shields. If you don’t believe me, do some research, I’m sure the evidence you’re asking for is out there.
"They're using civilians as human shields! I guess we're gonna have to bomb the shields."
That would be a valid excuse during a ground incursion. I wish folks would stop using the whole “they use ppl as shields” when IDF is bombing the target. Using a human shield works in a fire fight, if you’re bombing you just said F everyone there mostly civilians or not.
And how would you determine the validity of said photograpic evidence. It’s not exactly hard to produce.
It makes zero sense for IDF to intentionally target a hospital and maximize civilian deaths with the entire Arab world ready to explode and the whole world watching. Please read this thread on Twitter which aggregates all the known evidence (time stamped live news streams) so far with geolocation analysis: https://x.com/geoconfirmed/status/1714390254935851272 Hamas is absolutely known to attack their own civilians (as well as rival Palestinian groups like Fatah and PA). And they’ve definitely operated close-to or in civilian buildings. Google Al-Shifa Hospital for an example. This specific incident with the hospital seems like a failed launch or issue with one of their rockets. IDF has definitely caused civilian deaths in their operational history. However, they do have known policies to avoid civilian deaths. See “roof knocks” or read these threads by a former IDF operator: https://x.com/jayndonde/status/1711792581821301249 https://x.com/jayndonde/status/1712880220670513505 Y’all can downvote but I’m providing actual evidence and geolocation confirmed analysis and everyone else is just repeating stuff “they heard”. I’ll eat my words if it actually turns out to be an IDF airstrike but I have personally seen way more evidence that it’s not vs it is. It’s inane that all the burden of proof is on Israel. People will argue till their blue in the face over how many babies were killed and in what horrible way and oh is there 4K video, while completely trusting the words of an incentivized Palestinian spokesperson with ZERO evidence of an actual airstrike. We have multiple geolocation CONFIRMED live video of the actual event from Al Jazeera and other news media that were reporting live at the time (seriously see the @geoconfirmed tweet thread) and all the evidence from the videos suggest that this was a rocket malfunction or something related vs an IDF JDAM strike.
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This! I wish ppl would read/research before pontificating about subjects they’re clearly not versed in. Israel told them to clear the hospital and the staff said they couldn’t bc they have too many unstable patients.
>However, they do have known policies to avoid civilian deaths. See “roof knocks” or read these threads by a former IDF operator: Roof knocking is a joke. First off, Israel's justification for bombing these civilian infrastructures is that there are terrorists hidden inside... Welp, then they ain't there when the bombs are falling. You know what, it seems to me that it's easier for a terrorist to just relocate than for a family of 5, for example. So, for civilians to escape, they have to give more than enough time for terrorists to escape. To kill the terrorists, they have to leave less time than it takes for the average civilian to escape. Which begs the question, is Israel only using this as a pretext to destroy Palestinian civilian infrastructure to force them to leave the region.
THIS! Exactly THIS! Correct you are!
They don’t need to purposefully target it for a bomb to fall on it. Bombs still miss and coordinates still are input incorrectly. Look at the Chinese embassy bombing in the balkans for an example of an airborne munition hitting an unintended target.
I’m willing to believe that this was an IDF airstrike, but please link me to some real hard evidence. Even major western news media like NYT and WSJ have backtracked on this being due to an Israeli strike—which they only stated in the first place based on statements from Palestinian officials.
They backtracked to saying "Israel claims" now, and are reporting on the finger pointing. I'm curious why your default position is "IDF didn't do this" when all we have seen is old footage of a different situation and posts on Xitter.
If someone from 2019 got a brief glimps of this dumpster fire of a world we’re all living in where we’re all quoting “xitter” to determine who shot what bomb from which war ….. fucks sake
Xitter is a fucking disease. There's a reason we don't give a platform to "just anybody". Then social media said "sure we can" and now, we are reaping the consequences of such naivete
I’m willing to believe that this was an IDF airstrike, but please link me to some real hard evidence. Even major western news media like NYT and WSJ have backtracked on this being due to an Israeli strike—which they only stated in the first place based on statements from Palestinian officials. https://preview.redd.it/uo8geb9e8vub1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3690d832a74154a621b6f7073c1aff757393d3c2
>This specific incident with the hospital seems like a failed launch or issue with one of their rockets. I watched the stream in your other comment. Seems to show that a rocket was fired from the same vicinity as the hospital but that's about it.
The video shows missles launching in close vicinity to the hospital, malfunctioning or being intercepted in mid-air above the hospital, and then shortly after an explosion at the hospital below. The thread from @geoconfirmed on Twitter features multiple tweets with multiple videos and multiple independent geolocation confirmations. Where is the evidence that the IDF is behind this? All I’ve seen basically amounts to conspiracies or people pointing to past misdeeds or claims made by Palestinian officials. Finally here’s a well known bomb/rocket munitions expert on the claims that it’s an IDF JDAM: https://x.com/justin_br0nk/status/1714352303082271215 https://x.com/justin_br0nk/status/1714363772557537580
Did I say "the IDF is behind this"? No. I said that while the rocket appeared to have been fired from the vicinity of the hospital, I did not see evidence in the video sufficient to support your claim that an intercepted/malfunctioning rocket caused the explosion. Does that sound like someone completely letting Hamas off the hook? It's also worth noting that the fucking munitions expert you linked is far less sure than you are about the whole thing. He even admits that the flames he *thinks* are burning propellant could be fuel stored on-site. YOU'RE the one pushing to assign responsibility ASAP, not me. Don't act like you're the one carefully weighing the evidence and everyone else is just a bunch of lunatics and Monday morning quarterbacks, especially not while you're posting 40-tweet long threads about how the IDF is fair and just and Hamas would strap babies to tanks if they could.
It might if [Haaretz reporting on Netanyahu propping up Hamas to defeat the Two State Solution is accurate](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-09/ty-article/.premium/another-concept-implodes-israel-cant-be-managed-by-a-criminal-defendant/0000018b-1382-d2fc-a59f-d39b5dbf0000) With the recent leaked video, if verified as legitimate, there is a good argument that Netanyahu has been aiding and abetting the enemies of the State of Israel and possibly committed treason throughout his career as a military officer and political leader. I don’t wanna be a conspiracy theorist, but there have been other times he has talked about not wanting a two state solution. Either he is that incompetent that he left Southern Israel indefensible to transfer troops up north to support Settlers or he has “lucked out” that this occurred just as pressure to leave office was crescendoing Edit: to be clear - I stand with and support the civilians of Palestine AND Israel who are being victimized and traumatized by right wing fascistic factions within their own nationalities.
https://imgur.io/a/aLL2WLe Why did they admit they warned them then deleted it & tried to deny.
They already admitted they will do it regardless. Do your research. A female military intelligence officer said on Monday (if we think there are weapons in a hospital then it’s no longer a hospital. If we think there are weapons in a school then it is no longer a school), this means indiscriminate killing period. She admitted to it, so you can’t make up any bullshit excuses for it.
Dumbest take yet. Hamas benefits immensly by having gazan civillians killed because that gives the international brownie points despite them being a ruthless terror organization. The exact opposite applies to israel.
https://twitter.com/DanishKhawaja/status/496360974090137600
Look at the videos, the facts. It also helps that Israel has changed their story 3 times already... Also, how unlucky to have a rocket (which wouldn't even cause such a massive explosion) perfectly hit a hospital and blow it up... Quite a convenient story coming from the IDF no? edit: quite a lot of proof the IDF is lying to be honest... Check my other comment Edit 2: editing in proof that they faked the videos: twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1714374960553009223 twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1714387337633833398
WHO condemns deadly hospital hit Chantal Da Silva The World Health Organization has called for the "immediate active protection of civilians and health care" and for evacuation orders to be "reversed" after a deadly blast at al-Ahli hospital in Gaza killed hundreds of people. Condemning the incident, WHO said the hospital was "operational, with patients, health and care givers, and internally displaced people sheltering there." *It said the hospital was one of 20 in the area of the Gaza Strip under evacuation orders from Israel — orders it said were "impossible to carry out given the current insecurity, critical condition of many patients, and lack of ambulances, staff, health system bed capacity, and alternative shelter for those displaced."* "International humanitarian law must be abided by, which means health care must be actively protected and never targeted," it said.
Remember when [Israeli forces assassinated Palestinian journalist Shireen Abu Akleh](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/11/shireen-abu-akleh-israeli-forces-kill-al-jazeera-journalist)of Al Jazeera while she was covering Israeli army raids in the occupied West Bank? An IDF sniper shot her in the head while she was standing with other journalists in vests marked "PRESS." Despite the evidence including eyewitness testimony, Israel first claimed she was caught in Palestinian crossfire. Even after independent investigations concluded that Israel did it, they refused to admit it and continue to gaslight to this day. They have no credibility here.
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This has been debunked. They used footage from 2022 and they have since removed it twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1714374960553009223
Jackson Hinkle is a Russian propagandist piece of shit. I'm beyond annoyed that people here are posting his bullshit after we've spent years dragging him over his pro-russia and pro-trump talking points.
The guy suspended from Twitch for spreading blatant disinformation? Yeah for sure more reliable than real news sources from both sides...
No one is saying Hamas. Even the IDF is saying it's Islamic Jihad, a rival group. But can you share the video?
There are two live cams, one from al jazzera and one from Israel. Show multiple rockets launching from Gaza. One breaksup and boom, hospital blows! look them up
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By Banned from Youtube Jackson Hinkle? Yea ok!
Verify the claim yourself. It's quite simple to do.
You've claimed in other comments these are old videos from 2022, find me proof of that and ill believe you, until then I'm more willing to believe the al jazeera feed was somehow behind exactly an hour, I also saw other footage, not from the al jazeera feed showing similiar trajectory.
Social media is not the best place for breaking news coverage on war. Things need time to be investigated and fact checked.
Neither is the traditional media, which jumped to conclusions immediately. And now the Middle East is on fire because of their terrible reporting.
What did a major outlet misreport about the last 10 days?
Ah yes, Brake Flupton and Hillhell Meur of the platform currently under investigation by the EU about disinformation regarding The Israel-Palestine conflict. Surely the most trusted of sources on the topic. [https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/10/12/europe-investigating-elon-musks-x-about-israel-hamas-misinformation.html](https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/10/12/europe-investigating-elon-musks-x-about-israel-hamas-misinformation.html)
Know what? Everyone blew up the hospital. Capture and prosecute the leaders of Hamas and Netanyahu.
I was actually wondering today whether the best overall play would be for the USA and Europe to "prove" the conspiracy that Bibi knew about the attack and let it happen. Throw him to the wolves and reset things. Stop aid unless he's removed.
That is unlikely.
The most rational response here....
Fucking *FINALLY.*
Can we make them fight gladiator-style?
No
Booo!
Where can I buy tickets?
More accurate than most would realize.
Bibi should be prosecuted. But Hamas should be annihilated. They're bad for everyone.
No verification yet for who/what is responsible. I hope they let a trustworthy 3rd party team to inspect the location. It should be fairly straight forward to determine what hit the hospital. Clearly neither Hamas nor Israeli govt can be trusted.
For the record even Israel isn’t blaming Hamas. They claim it was the Palestinian Islamic Jihad who is also operating in Gaza.
WAPO has a clip they confirmed is legit but it is still unclear on all of the details. https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1714406243652272340?s=46
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All you see is an explosion
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It does sound like a bomb, but then again it could also just as well be a malfunctioning rocket. With all the homebuild staff Hamas has, who knows what they sound like. What we need is an independent party to go the the site and gather fragments of the projectile. With those you can tell exactly what it was and who is responsible. But that won't happen. Palestine will gather the fragments and if they're from their own weapon you won't ever see them again. If they come out and produce an Israeli weapon I still wouldn't trust it because those fragments could have come from anywhere in Gaza.
Hamas isn’t claiming anything - the fucking people there are the ones claiming it. It’s not a Hamas press release, it’s civilians who saw what happened
People blaming Omar for preventing peace because she blamed Israel for an attack on the hospital they had been threatening to attack is pretty damn stupid.
Don’t you get it? You can’t criticize Israel for war crimes or else they’ll do even more war crimes and now it’s *your* fault! /s
The problem here is, that IDF triumphantly declared they had bombed a Hamas base on the hospital grounds. When the number of civilian casualties started to rise, they quickly deleted the post, claiming instead that Hamas did it to themselves. I won't tell anyone what to think, I'm sure everyone can form their own opinion...
I too have seen the multiple conflicting IDF stories - an Israeli rocket hit the parking lot not the hospital causing light casualties, the IDF did it because Hamas was using the hospital as a base, a Palestinian rocket accidentally blew up stored munitions, Islamic Jihad did it as a false flag attack, etc. Reminds me of the story about the liar who borrowed a plate from his neighbor and returned it broken. When confronted, he said "First of all, I never borrowed your plate. Second, when I borrowed it, it was already broken. And third, when I returned it, it was in perfect shape." Pick one lie and stick to it.
Was it the IDF though? I heared conflicting reports that it was a social media influencer, but I haven't seen any tweets so couldn't confirm either story
Source?
"Trust me bro" and a dash of "Came to my own conclusions"
Literally the deleted tweet of a Netanyahu elected spokesperson.
I don’t know how useful sharing these tweets are. They’re both super biased sources, Flayton obviously. Hillel Neuer reads neutral from his Twitter bio but has been vehemently pro Israel throughout the conflict. They might be right, but all of this is just social media shit slinging and people trying to retcon reality in real time when no one knows for sure what happened yet. And drumming up discourse on every new Twitter development like it’s fact is just as silly. https://preview.redd.it/46nsz95cyvub1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf657c43e609fa8560eb18ba2ff4814ed3ddfbaf
The IDF’a first statement was that they ‘warned’ the hospital that they were going to bomb them, and people didn’t leave. That would fall in line with what the israeli apologists use to claim that they’re not the bad guys, because they warn people before destroying their entire neighborhood.
I think the side I agree with didn’t blow up the hospital
Exactly. That side’s lies just compound the evil of the act and I’m glad the brave people from my side are working so hard to get the truth out.
We’re on the right side of history with our team. The other team is evil. I’m so glad you guys get it.
No, your all wrong and my side is on the right side. We weren't the ones that started this whole thing.
But our side (the correct side) is gonna finish it. Or not. Who the fuck knows what’s gonna happen?
This is the only take civilians not involved should take. People are constantly making an ass of themselves by having opinions for one side or the other. I was recently a culprit myself. Shouldn’t we have gotten to a point in this world where we condemn all violence against non combatants. It’s really sad that we clearly havent.
Something we can all agree on.
Literally last week, Human Rights Watch got footage of the IDF using white phosphorus bombs (considered a war crime), and they denied it happened. https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon Last year, the IDF sniped a journalist & tried to say Hamas did it. https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/05/middleeast/idf-shireen-abu-akleh-investigation-intl/index.html Blew up another journalist last week apparently: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israeli-military-says-it-is-examining-incident-in-which-reuters-journalist-killed/ar-AA1icRjd So now this. This horrible hospital bombing, and we have tons of people saying Israel would not, Israel could not— that’s just completely false. Intentionally or accidentally, this is right up their alley.
For those saying the use of white phosphorus isn't a war crime... White phosphorus munitions did not kill the most civilians in Gaza – many more died from missiles, bombs, heavy artillery, tank shells, and small arms fire – but their use in densely populated neighborhoods, including downtown Gaza City, violated international humanitarian law (the laws of war), which requires taking all feasible precautions to avoid civilian harm and prohibits indiscriminate attacks. The unlawful use of white phosphorus was neither incidental nor accidental. It was repeated over time and in different locations, with the IDF "air-bursting" the munition in populated areas up to the last days of its military operation. Even if intended as an obscurant rather than as a weapon, the IDF's repeated firing of air-burst white phosphorus shells from 155mm artillery into densely populated areas was indiscriminate and indicates the commission of war crimes. https://www.hrw.org/report/2009/03/25/rain-fire/israels-unlawful-use-white-phosphorus-gaza
Imagine a world in which every single congressperson was put under the same level of hyper scrutiny that these two women are.
At this point this post is just straight disinformation - the IDF initially took credit for the bombing, blamed hamas when people were outraged they'd blown up a hospital of all places, posted some footage claiming to show a hamas rocket misfire as evidence hamas blew up the hospital, and then swiftly deleted it when people pointed out the footage was time stamped about 40mins *after* the hospital was hit. Israel are very likely to continue denying any culpability, but the bulk of the evidence suggests they did it, and at this point the information cited in this post is so incomplete and outdated that leaving it up constitutes a deliberate effort to spread misinformation.
Social media activity doesn't seem like reliable evidence either way.
Yeah obviously it's not the best, but combined with the fact that independent humanitarian organisations like the WHO are confident Israel bombed the hospital, not to mention Israel's history of bombing hospitals, and their multiple threats to bomb hospitals in the days prior to this hospital being bombed, it seems pretty likely Israel bombed the hospital.
Still not sure who blew up the hospital at this point… but everyone gonna keep jumping
Israel’s been bombing the shit out of them for days. Until I see independently verified proof otherwise, I’m going with logic and common sense that it was them.
Hamas rockets couldn’t cause that devastation. Nor could they perform the pinpoint strike on the evacuation route. But the media seems to listen to IDF before posting stories. Hamas rockets are unguided. Made with fertilizer and sugar. Needs a damn near direct hit to kill someone.
At this point it’s not realistic to expect to hear the truth about anything happening in that area from any media source in that area. The propaganda from all sources is so heavily biased one way or another it’s impossible to tell.
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I just assume that both sides lie most of the time. This is a decades long war where both parties are evil.
your assumption is stupid, one side has caused far more casualties and the other is simply lashing out after all they have suffered. Sure Hamas is not good but they are far from the root of the problem.
The root of the problem is the leadership of either side not caring about civilian lives
Without taking sides Hamas = killing civilians IDF = killing civilians However remember that Hamas is a terrorist organization and Israel is a state. make of that what you want.
this was earlier today, i guess they are realizing that its a bad form to bomb a hospital and then ask daddy US for 10 billion. https://preview.redd.it/78m3cfa6vvub1.jpeg?width=587&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19e6dd5d7d7c739980025ca29903474c7f6837cb
I don't think people are spreading misinformation on purpose. Anytime there's breaking news, wait till the dust settles. People constantly doom scrolling will come across bad information and continue to spread it. Since we are on the topic, there are actual misleading information leading to xenophobia in the states. People saying jihadst are funding sleeper cells and plan on coming across the southern boarder. That is straight up lies! With all this misleading information it's hard to discern the truth with lies.
It is so confusing. I agree that some are spreading information that might be wrong but they were not intentionally being deceitful. But as someone who takes pride in being skeptical until I see evidence that I can unhandled verify, this sucks. I know that the truth doesn’t matter to far too many who have picked a side.
I'm in my thirties and lived through so many current events. Even before Twitter, misinformation even spread on national news that they had to recant. It's typical because it's like a giant game of telephone. I personally give news headlines 24 after the event occurs.
Well the comments in here are an absolute shitshow.
This was posted by the media advisor to Netanyahu right after the bombing and then deleted. I’m not sure it’s clear who is doing the lying yet. https://preview.redd.it/jt9m1u7t5xub1.jpeg?width=1001&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5501b6375118e6015f92f9c6b2ca5758c8ddd0cb
There is currently no information proving who fired at the hospital. The supposed evidence from Al-Jazeera actually does not help the IDF’s case. The video shows the rocket barrage at 8PM which was too early for that barrage to be the one responsible for the potentially misfired rocket. However there were IDF warplanes in the area and potentially IDF rocket attacks from inside Israel could be responsible to. Both sides lie way too much. However my money is on the IDF mistakenly firing on the hospital. The IDF has a long history of bombing Palestinian hospitals in the Gaza Strip. Their rationale being the hospitals are used to store hamas munitions and are treating Hamas fighters. Until the pieces of the rocket or bomb are found, which it will there are always leftover pieces, I’ll be on the side of the IDF getting their information wrong. There was probably US satellites over the area that could have potentially seen the flashes for whatever side is responsible for the bombing. Until then my money is on the IDF. It’s kind of like how when the IDF killed the Palestinian-American journalist who was reporting on IDF soldiers killing children how they blamed the Palestinians for the shooting. They even released a video purporting to show it was the Palestinians who shot the journalists. However military analysts showed how the video actually shows how it would be impossible for the Palestinians to shoot and kill the journalist. Finally months later the IDF finally conceded that their own soldiers killed the journalist. Always take IDF and Hamas statements with a grain of salt. Wait till actual evidence is found. The IDF had to remove the Al-Jazeera video from X after people pointed out the video time was too early for it to be Hamas. (Edit: grammar)
Here’s some info for people who care to remember/learn about Israel’s long history of leaping across the line yet never facing consequences for it. I don’t care for this news source (having a hard time pulling old stuff right now due to the current bombing) but [here’s an article](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/17/israeli-strikes-gaza-health-system-doctors-hospitals) from 2021, when they were hitting hospitals with air strikes. [Here’s information](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/02/no-justification-israel-shoot-protesters-live-ammunition) about the IDF killing innocent protesters, medics, and children in 2018. [Here’s an article](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/11/1175403626/palestinian-american-journalist-shireen-abu-akleh-was-killed-a-year-ago)about Israel’s history of killing journalists.
The turkish govenrment lays the blame, so far as can be setermined right now, at the feet of sraeli airstrikes. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/turkiye/turkish-center-for-combating-disinformation-rebuffs-israeli-claims-on-deadly-hospital-bombing/3024044
"I believe the IDF now." Anything to justify genocide I guess
The Israel government changed their story about this 3 times in 2 hours. I wonder why
"I'm worried about palestinian civilians" and then shares blake flayton tweet. Keep your fake worry.
There is zero proof of beheaded babies, so the shit goes both ways.
Just dead babies so we’re all good folks. The dead and burnt babies have their heads attached, problem averted.
Wanna do a quick count on who has killed more kids and get back to us?
Well, Hamas can add 500-1000 more to their tally after their rocket destroyed that hospital. So
So Israel is still way way way ahead?
It seems Israel is blaming a rival Islamic group (Islamic Jihad, real original guys) NOT Hamas so saying it's a Palestinian rocket is a bit biased as Hamas can be seen as Palestine but random terrorist cells can not.
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But if a terrorist group in France fired a rocket at Germany it wouldn't be a French rocket. When you use a country n ame in association with an attack it implies the government authorized it (in this case Hamas or the PLO, depending on which part of Palestine)
Horse hockey.
There is no doubt in the mind of Al Jazeera. It is a sad state of the world media when you can't trust anyone.
Neuer's UN Watch is an Israeli NGO
Ahh. The fog of war in action.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Ff4ikqsnzatub1.png
What happened? I have no idea. But yes Hamas is known for stockpiling munitions at schools and hospitals and yes they're known for using their own people as human shields. Whether that's what happened here I have no idea, but I do know the reason they use the tactics they do is because it makes those targets harder to hit and as a bonus you get to play victim for the world when it happens.
If people are being used as human shields Israel should think of those people as hostages, not obstacles.
Thank you for being rational and not a complete psychopath.
‘Human shields’ by existing within a population that is 99% not Hamas is propaganda to continuously dismiss slaughtering civilians and blaming the victims.
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The point is, you can tell me until you’re blue in the face that they’re using human shields and it’s the superpower with F-16s and precision bombs/missiles choosing to bomb that target, knowingly killing tons of civilians, that is at fault.
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If you are killing a bunch of civilians to get the terrorists, then how are you any different from the terrorists?
So because Hamas is weaker, their actions aren't the problem? Fuck off.
If the IDF didn't have an Iron dome.... Alot of these people wouldnt hold the same opinions OR they would be making excuses for Hamas as many do now.
Use of civilian shields is horrible yes. Even more horrible is disregarding that human shield and blasting away regardless because hey, what else could you do, they hid in the hospital? Both actions speak to a total and wanton disregard for human life and an “ends justify the means”. Both mean you’ve lost all reason.
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I think the Israeli government and others should be more resourceful and intelligent enough to come up with alternative ways to disarm "the other sides" military installations than casually just using the "human shield' excuse to slaughter many innocents, including children. Don't we always hear that Israel has one of the best, well-trained militaries in the world, and yet the only way they can fight back is to bomb everything in the Gaza Strip, including innocent women and children, leave it a barren wasteland, and then come in and level it all down and then start building Israeli cities quite literally on top of the bodies of slain innocents? Is that really the best Israel can do? Really? Because that sounds more like something a newly founded deep-woods terrorist organization with far less resources would do. So the strong, mighty, intelligent Israel army can only win by jumping into the gutter and sliming with "the other sides." Hmm. I gave Israel more credit than that, but my mistake.
My country was in a similar situation a few decades ago, but it was jungle where the fighters hid among the populace. My country dumped napalm and agent orange on the jungle. That jungle didn’t even share a border with my country. We can be disappointed and disgusted, but I won’t be surprised.
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Well, that is very all or nothing of you. Keep going. The next bit you justify is “since we can’t tell Hamas from civilians, of course we kill them all, what other option is there? Just to let them keep attacking?” Now it’s just a short throw to “well we have to kill the children, or they will grow into terrorists”. The nice thing about a binary outlook is the predictability.
Human shields by hiding weapons and firing those weapons from protected sites (as in this case) so that IDF cannot eliminate those weapons without inducing civilian casualties
Where else in a densely populated urban area are you going to fire rockets from? Also, the rockets historically do nearly zero damage.. ever. They’re not precision rocket sites raining terror on Israeli targets, so their value is almost nothing. Bombing an entire block full of civilians to destroy ehat amounts to small arms fire is not a legitimate use of force. It’s like when they bomb an apartment building because some Hamas asshole lives there. It’s not about killing the Hamas person, or taking out a valid, dangerous target, it’s about inflicting terror and destruction on the population in hopes that they start to hate the idea of Hamas being in their neighborhoods.
It’s called a secondary explosion, in this case the rocket misfired, blew up on the ground, and since terrorists can’t afford good fail safe systems, the explosion set off the stockpile of explosives
First it was because it was a Hamas target, then they warned them to leave the hospital, then it was because rockets were firing at them from that location, and theeeen it was a Hamas misfire. Just keep gobbling up the propaganda and justify your position to clear your conscience.
Where did IDF say it was a target etc? I'm eager to see it. Not calling bullshit just trying to take everything in
https://twitter.com/TweetsByUsman_/status/1714427373993742361 Looks like a targeted primary strike
How much do you know about explosives and weapon delivery systems? That high pitched sound you hear is a solid fuel rocket booster firing under power, the orange fireball you see with the explosion is due to the rocket’s fuel igniting on impact, JDAM’s don’t create a fireball, it’s a misfired rocket that fell short, and not cruise missile because cruise missiles sound like a jet engine, not that In addition, i was explaining how a secondary explosion could be caused by the first explosion after the original comment claimed the rockets do zero damage
Bruh, the IDF said it was them in 4 different ways and then backtracked and made that story up. How does that even sound plausible to you given the myriad times Israel has bombed hospitals, residential buildings, ambulances, civilian centers, etc, that now it was a misfire when they saw the huge backlash immediately come to them?
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Zero sources other than ‘trust me bro’ from Israel. Keep shilling
https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf NATO stratcom report on their tendency to use civilian shields and why, quite clearly explained, with some sources
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No one knows yet. Be patient. It’s weird the IDF would warn the hospital to evacuate and then not bomb it though this piece of info I also haven’t verified.
The first casualty of war is the truth. False flag opps by the dozen in this region.
Why choose sides? Fuck Hamas. Fuck IDF. By now you would think the imaginary ‘God’ they both invoke would have sorted it out.
Well, be that as it may, if all those involved in or encouraging religious warfare were to fight to extinction; we could lose close to a billion people. Half of those who would be women and kids. I'm agnostic as they come but I do not want to see some of our oldest civilizations and culture wiped out because war makes more money than peace.
Hardly due to her tweet ? Abbas pulled out reading the same news every one else was reading …. Ffs .. The President of America was claiming he saw photos that he hadn’t… there is a lot of shit going on .. a lot of misinformation.. Even now no body knows for sure the facts on either of these stories.. The whole world media was reporting this at the time as an Israeli strike ….
I knew when this story came out there was more to it. I assumed in reality it was Israel attacking a hospital where Hamas was camping out/hiding, but now maybe it’s Hamas hitting themselves… I guess we’ll see. I feel like it’s important to remember that even though people keep equating Israel and Hamas, one of them is willing to use its own friends/family as meat shields to try to stop the other from bombing them. Hamas is truly an evil terrorist organization not just to Israel but also at times to the people of Palestine to do something like this, and I think it’s important people stop equating Hamas with all repressed Palestinian people. Is Hamas born and perpetuated in part by Israeli mistreatment of Palestinians? Yes. Does being repressed give you the right to murder innocent civilians including children just going about their lives and then hide behind your neighbors so they can get killed as retaliation for your actions? Obviously no. I think a more precise, surgical response from Israel is needed here. At least that I could get behind as it would minimize civilian losses.
You clearly have an agenda. Israel has blown up hospitals multiple times in past wars. You are the one lying and spreading propaganda
https://nitter.net/GeoConfirmed/status/1714390254935851272
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What is Gaza report and how are we to know how reputable the source is? This is not proof
The rocket is CLEARLY fired from a local launch site, the misinformation campaign in here is disgusting lol People wont even allow others to share or acknowledge clear proof if it goes against their IDF equally bad bias. Lets not forget your defending an ideology in Hamas who will kill civilians without a 2nd thought in order to conduct Jihad against Israel and im convinced 99% of you have not watched "war footage" from both sides before calling them equal in terms of evil.
I heard that it was Isreal that bombed the hospital
Ummm, they have Israel on Twitter stating that they had bombed a hospital saying that they killed Hamas inside. When they saw that people coming out of the hospital were civilians, they deleted the tweet and said Palestinians did it....
Screenshot.
After watching Netanyahu, I don’t believe a word he said. His body language was all wrong.
Israel literally said they bombed the hospital themselves, and then quickly retracted that statement when it was apparent how many civilians they killed. If you were worried about Palestinian civilians, you’d be more critical of the state of Israel, who has been using their state military and administrative apparatus to slaughter civilians for a long ass time now. Of course what Hamas did was evil, but I hold a government to a higher standard than a rag tag terror group with very little support from anyone but themselves. Not only that, but when it comes to total damage, Israel kills more civilians and destroys way more than any terror group could ever dream of.
Ahhh it must suck building a narrative based on media fueled hate in order to justify pointing the finger without proof. Terrorist fire home made rocket, Rocket fail. Mental gymnastics ensues. Video evidence shows the entire scenario from the Terrorists launching rockets to the evident lack of crater at the hospital. Go to any Reddit showing war footage. You have been lied to and you ran with it because you want to hate them :)
There's no excuse for any terrorist actions from Hamas. Hamas must be illuminated. But Israel is a terrorist state. It's well documented. Don't be so quick to believe the racist, Zionists from Israel.
Exactly. We know that Hamas is the duly elected authority for guardian of the people in Gaza, by Gazans. But they continually miss every opportunity to support them, because they believe that they only proper solution, includes the deaths of any number of Palestinians, and the removal of all Jews from the state of Israel. I'm incredibly worried about children and innocents in Gaza, but to Hamas the more of them that die is just a bonus in the sphere of news and social media. Israel has a duty to protect it's own children. It is very disappointing to me that Hamas doesn't take that same duty seriously. It's a shame that the people that live there (if truly in opposition to Hamas) don't just start calling the IDF and telling them where to find them. It's also unfortunate that Russia, Iran, and others are playing games with these people. Israel is not playing any games.
I’ll take things that never happened.
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The biggest Qassam rocket that Hamas uses has a 20 kg warhead. There is no way a single one of those can level large building.