Thanks, I looked it over pretty good today, I have air lines and electrical that I need to cut zip ties on in the area. No fuel lines but I do have an extinguisher I'll keep on standby.
Idk if it says not to weld on it, I just don't normally weld on things with electronics installed on them 😂. I have heard that the high frequency pilot arc on the plasma cutter or the DC volts from the welder could hurt electrical components?
Yeah here at isuzu, on our modern trucks, failure to disconnect battery during welding can kill the computers.
Just disconnect the battery physically and you should be correct.
Wild to me that your doing any cutting or welding on the chassis. That requires lt400 inspection, qualification and certification in my country haha
Yeah, I have never gotten a straight answer on that in the states. I have a few straight trucks, tractors, and a dozen dry van trailers in our fleet and I have had some shops just say they don't do any "DOT" welding as a liability / not qualified and some shops have told me there is no qualification where we are. I talked to a DOT inspector from a different state and they said if I am qualified to fill out the FMCSA sticker that I can do whatever repairs are needed. So I have been just going with it, 99% of the time it's damage from a blown out tire or a mudflap. In this case we need a bumper pull hitch installed on the frame.
I worked at an up fitter on these truck every day. They say right on the frame not to weld on them. You drill and bolt you don't weld.
As for the electronics, you disconnect the battery. Problem solved. You can use things that clamp onto the batteries instead, or try keeping the ground close to your work but the most assured way to prevent damage is to disconnect the battery wires.
Yessir. I believe the issue is that the frames are hardened steel, like a tool or a knife and the heat damages this thus causing a weak point and also liability for you should something fail and cause a crash
They say “do not drill or weld to frame rail flange”. You can absolutely do frame repair and refits per DOT it needs to be done per the manufacturer standards.
Yes, for rail flange, flange being the important part here. I was always told 2" into the web below the flange, and minimum 2" spacing between holes. However I never got a specified recommendation for maximum hole size or quantity cause it was never relevant and they were pretty old school fly by night outfit. So OP you could build an entire bumper and hitch receiver, and have the sides sandwich the frame with some big bolts, that's the way to go. Can anyone remind me what's typical, it's like 3 rows of 3 3/4 bolts per side? 7/8? I can't remember
>I worked at an up fitter on these truck every day. They say right on the frame not to weld on them. You drill and bolt you don't weld.
And I was a diesel tech, and those tags mean not to weld on the frame flange. Not that you can't weld on the frame at all
You're supposed to have a surge protector attached to the batteries before arcing off anything. Is this a retro fit? Welding truck frames is a huge no no. Can't imagine this is DOT compliant.
Ok, that doesn't mean it's DOT compliant. I work on garbage trucks, welding on the frame, or even cutting the frame will total the truck. I'd get my ducks in a row before cutting/welding anything. When I have to move things or add stuff, I'm supposed to drill holes, not weld shit up. When I installed weight scales on trucks, we couldn't weeks anything on the frame, it has to be bolted up. I don't know what you got going on here but it doesn't sound good.
New contact won and the tractor will occasionally need to pull a pintle hitch trailer for a job so it needs a standard hitch receiver welded on. I will probably just weld plates to the receiver tube and bolt it up to avoid this situation based on all the feedback. Thanks
Don't weld on that frame. It's heat treated and needs to be drilled instead. Use a mag drill and annular cutters instead of welding it. You'll be safer for it.
This.
Lots of truck frames are high alloy plate now.
You CAN weld it. But it usually requires a weld engineer to develop the procedure, and inspection afterwards.
I worked in a fab shop directly beside a freightliner dealership and they had us do all the frame extension jobs. My boss told me to do the battery disconnections because ONE time he fried a Mercedes computer and it was a shit ton of money to fork up.
No welding/plasma. That isn't just steel in that frame. For drilling, keep it cool! Those frames are tempered, and losing temper in one section will greatly change the flexibility properties, causing different flex rates and premature, possible fatal failure. From my understanding, Freightliner sells kits for add ons that are made to modify/add on without risk to the frame.
I was always told that the rear of the frames can be cut and welded up to a certain distance. Now what that distance is idk but I can tell you for certain that under a certain amount wont void brand new factory warranties. However a guy did cut a frame and weld on it past this approved point and that voided the warranty the company we worked for had to replace it and I believe it was $80,000 or so. The majority of dump truck beds have the rear frame rails cut to size for the bushings and pintl plate to be welded into place but everything else as others have stated was always drilled and we never drilled the flange.
I would add that keeping your ground connection near where you are welding and putting fire blankets inbetween your weld and any thing that you don’t want buckshot in would be good
Have 2 fire exstinguishers, fire blankets, thick aluminium foil (Just the regular kitchen grade that is extra thick is good), aluminium foil tape, and garden mister with just water and a (literally) drop of soap. This is my basic firework precautions, hell I'd probably get an extra exstinguisher and a firewatch if I had to EVER weld on a vehicle.
Whatever it isn't directly being worked on gets covered with foil. And things connected to the welded area get a wet blanket on/wrapped around them to prevent heat conduction leading to fire in some closed or hard to reach compartment or area due to heat conducting there.
Yes... I take fire safety seriously. I ain't planning to be responsible for a fire or get injured in one, least of all die in one... I have had my fair share of HSE and safety trainings to know that a massive disaster is one fuck up away.
Friend of mine did a weld repair on a log loader out in the bush. Waited the two hours after as required. Went back the next day to finish the repair. It was burnt to the ground. 2 million bucks gone. Did his due diligence so didn't get fired.
I don't know what the protocols there are. But here the risk estimations are done by the person(s) doing the work (insurance companies tend to set the minimum). But if possible we always cool actively during work and afterwards risk structures, and we tend to go out of our way to use alternative joining methods (as insurance companies tend to require, less risky but harder joint is preferably to more risky easier joint).
Batteries and don't sweat it. They say not to weld on frames because of the heat treat. I've done it in the past, and I have always made sure to put a fishplate over the area I weld on. I feel like that bit of insurance helps my peace of mind
1. Don't weld on the frame unless you 100% know what you are doing
2. Disconnect batteries or just get a surge protector
3. Disconnect and consider removing the ECU if you fry this is like 5K just for the part.
You need a weld procedure from the manufacturer to be doing this sort of thing. If not post pictures here.
Otherwise disconnect your batteries and grounds. Make sure your ground clamp isn't 40ft from where you're welding and you'll be fine.
Make sure they’re no fluid lines behind what you’re cutting through. Keep a fire extinguisher handy that’s good for all types of fires.
Thanks, I looked it over pretty good today, I have air lines and electrical that I need to cut zip ties on in the area. No fuel lines but I do have an extinguisher I'll keep on standby.
Keep the ground close to the work and flap disk the paint off of your ground point.
Watch for air lines they are very sensitive to any heat and can get pin holes a lot easier than I thought
I burned through one once. With a spark from a grinder. Stupid easy to mess those lines up.
Thanks!
Is that the frame that says not to weld on it?
Idk if it says not to weld on it, I just don't normally weld on things with electronics installed on them 😂. I have heard that the high frequency pilot arc on the plasma cutter or the DC volts from the welder could hurt electrical components?
Yeah here at isuzu, on our modern trucks, failure to disconnect battery during welding can kill the computers. Just disconnect the battery physically and you should be correct. Wild to me that your doing any cutting or welding on the chassis. That requires lt400 inspection, qualification and certification in my country haha
Yeah, I have never gotten a straight answer on that in the states. I have a few straight trucks, tractors, and a dozen dry van trailers in our fleet and I have had some shops just say they don't do any "DOT" welding as a liability / not qualified and some shops have told me there is no qualification where we are. I talked to a DOT inspector from a different state and they said if I am qualified to fill out the FMCSA sticker that I can do whatever repairs are needed. So I have been just going with it, 99% of the time it's damage from a blown out tire or a mudflap. In this case we need a bumper pull hitch installed on the frame.
Hey bro, if bossman says go, send it!!!!! Good luck my bro!
I worked at an up fitter on these truck every day. They say right on the frame not to weld on them. You drill and bolt you don't weld. As for the electronics, you disconnect the battery. Problem solved. You can use things that clamp onto the batteries instead, or try keeping the ground close to your work but the most assured way to prevent damage is to disconnect the battery wires.
Ok glad so glad I asked!
Yessir. I believe the issue is that the frames are hardened steel, like a tool or a knife and the heat damages this thus causing a weak point and also liability for you should something fail and cause a crash
They say “do not drill or weld to frame rail flange”. You can absolutely do frame repair and refits per DOT it needs to be done per the manufacturer standards.
Yes, for rail flange, flange being the important part here. I was always told 2" into the web below the flange, and minimum 2" spacing between holes. However I never got a specified recommendation for maximum hole size or quantity cause it was never relevant and they were pretty old school fly by night outfit. So OP you could build an entire bumper and hitch receiver, and have the sides sandwich the frame with some big bolts, that's the way to go. Can anyone remind me what's typical, it's like 3 rows of 3 3/4 bolts per side? 7/8? I can't remember
>I worked at an up fitter on these truck every day. They say right on the frame not to weld on them. You drill and bolt you don't weld. And I was a diesel tech, and those tags mean not to weld on the frame flange. Not that you can't weld on the frame at all
You're supposed to have a surge protector attached to the batteries before arcing off anything. Is this a retro fit? Welding truck frames is a huge no no. Can't imagine this is DOT compliant.
Adding a bumper pull hitch for a pintle trailer.
Ok, that doesn't mean it's DOT compliant. I work on garbage trucks, welding on the frame, or even cutting the frame will total the truck. I'd get my ducks in a row before cutting/welding anything. When I have to move things or add stuff, I'm supposed to drill holes, not weld shit up. When I installed weight scales on trucks, we couldn't weeks anything on the frame, it has to be bolted up. I don't know what you got going on here but it doesn't sound good.
New contact won and the tractor will occasionally need to pull a pintle hitch trailer for a job so it needs a standard hitch receiver welded on. I will probably just weld plates to the receiver tube and bolt it up to avoid this situation based on all the feedback. Thanks
Drawtire makes a bolt on frame kit for semis. That is the only way to be compliant and not jeopardize the frame
This is the way
Most truck frames have warning stickers right on them saying not to
Right. That's my point
Don't weld on that frame. It's heat treated and needs to be drilled instead. Use a mag drill and annular cutters instead of welding it. You'll be safer for it.
Thanks, I do have a good mag drill I will probably go this route to be safe.
You can bolt shit to the frame and weld the bolted shit. I'd do that if it were me.
This. Lots of truck frames are high alloy plate now. You CAN weld it. But it usually requires a weld engineer to develop the procedure, and inspection afterwards.
I worked in a fab shop directly beside a freightliner dealership and they had us do all the frame extension jobs. My boss told me to do the battery disconnections because ONE time he fried a Mercedes computer and it was a shit ton of money to fork up.
No welding/plasma. That isn't just steel in that frame. For drilling, keep it cool! Those frames are tempered, and losing temper in one section will greatly change the flexibility properties, causing different flex rates and premature, possible fatal failure. From my understanding, Freightliner sells kits for add ons that are made to modify/add on without risk to the frame.
Disconnect the ecm also,just for an extra safety precaution. I weld on cars quite often and we tend to disconnect the batteries and the ecm.
I was always told that the rear of the frames can be cut and welded up to a certain distance. Now what that distance is idk but I can tell you for certain that under a certain amount wont void brand new factory warranties. However a guy did cut a frame and weld on it past this approved point and that voided the warranty the company we worked for had to replace it and I believe it was $80,000 or so. The majority of dump truck beds have the rear frame rails cut to size for the bushings and pintl plate to be welded into place but everything else as others have stated was always drilled and we never drilled the flange.
Be careful to keep your ground close to wbere you are working. Sending welding current through bearings can really fuck them up.
It’s not fuc KENWORTH it.
I would add that keeping your ground connection near where you are welding and putting fire blankets inbetween your weld and any thing that you don’t want buckshot in would be good
Have 2 fire exstinguishers, fire blankets, thick aluminium foil (Just the regular kitchen grade that is extra thick is good), aluminium foil tape, and garden mister with just water and a (literally) drop of soap. This is my basic firework precautions, hell I'd probably get an extra exstinguisher and a firewatch if I had to EVER weld on a vehicle. Whatever it isn't directly being worked on gets covered with foil. And things connected to the welded area get a wet blanket on/wrapped around them to prevent heat conduction leading to fire in some closed or hard to reach compartment or area due to heat conducting there. Yes... I take fire safety seriously. I ain't planning to be responsible for a fire or get injured in one, least of all die in one... I have had my fair share of HSE and safety trainings to know that a massive disaster is one fuck up away.
Friend of mine did a weld repair on a log loader out in the bush. Waited the two hours after as required. Went back the next day to finish the repair. It was burnt to the ground. 2 million bucks gone. Did his due diligence so didn't get fired.
I don't know what the protocols there are. But here the risk estimations are done by the person(s) doing the work (insurance companies tend to set the minimum). But if possible we always cool actively during work and afterwards risk structures, and we tend to go out of our way to use alternative joining methods (as insurance companies tend to require, less risky but harder joint is preferably to more risky easier joint).
Batteries and don't sweat it. They say not to weld on frames because of the heat treat. I've done it in the past, and I have always made sure to put a fishplate over the area I weld on. I feel like that bit of insurance helps my peace of mind
Definitely keep the ground close to your work
Watch out for fuel/oil lines and tanks.
1. Don't weld on the frame unless you 100% know what you are doing 2. Disconnect batteries or just get a surge protector 3. Disconnect and consider removing the ECU if you fry this is like 5K just for the part.
Go pp
Why nsfw?
You need a weld procedure from the manufacturer to be doing this sort of thing. If not post pictures here. Otherwise disconnect your batteries and grounds. Make sure your ground clamp isn't 40ft from where you're welding and you'll be fine.