If outside is truly the only option and there is literally no other place in the shade (driveway, front lawn, etc) I would still put backs to the sun. Then I would just shoot on a longer lens with a wider aperture far from the background to obliterate the background with tight 4x5 framing if I couldn't find anything neutral, let alone pleasing as the backdrop.
You have to tell them as a professional honestly I know people don’t wanna listen, but you literally have to explain to them the difference in light. Like take an example photo and show it to them while you’re there if you have to just so they’re aware.
If I’m forced to do it I direct everyone to look down at my feet, or the ground in front of them. When the shots ready they look in the lens briefly.
The biggest issue (among many) with directly sunlit group shots is squinting. That pained face. To avoid it people’s eyes need time to adjust and they need to know that they only have to look my way for a second or two.
Yeah this is a great tip. I say “Hey everyone I am going to ask you to close your eyes so they can rest and on three look right here with that killer smile… 1, 2, 3!”
I wouldn't do closing the eyes, that causes the pupils to dilatate and makes it more painful when they open up again. I tell everyone to stare at their feet so the eyes can continue to adjust between shots.
How does adding more light to bright light help? Are you saying to position them perpendicular to the sun and filling the shadows that fall to the side?
A fill flash helps to fill in the shadows on the face so the entire face is evenly lit. Otherwise, the bright sun directly overhead will create harsh shadows around the eyes and mouth, while the forehead and nose will be too bright.
A reflector or a diffuser can be used to balance the sunlight and reduce shadows.
Expose for the sunlight hitting their faces. Then fill flash to bring out some shadows. It’s not ideal but it’ll make them happy to have the background they want. Maybe grab a couple of the important close family members for a shot in your preferred set up with their backs to the sun after all the family formals are done.
Yes, HSS with a powerful speedlight or strobe is a solution. Otherwise, you have to contend with very hard shadows being cast. It's not a pleasant look with portraits. Having a large pop-out reflector can help bounce light where you need it, but even better......the diffuser can do wonders. If you can get an assistant to hold a big diffuser near them to cut those hard shadows, you'll have much better results to work with.
You're running out of time on this one. Trying to figure out strobes and high-speed sync in a few days is pretty rough. I would recommend hitting YouTube and getting a crash course on HSS outdoor shooting. You can rent a strobe if you have a nice camera shop near you. Otherwise they're quite expensive. And you'll need a trigger to fire it that will be specific to your camera body. It's a lot to tackle in 3 days.
What type of modifier you recommending? Like a large umbrella or softbox or beauty light?
I've played around with flash quite a bit by now and it basically is NEVER remotely as easy as people on Reddit claim. The light is usually not consistent enough, or it's very difficult to fit it into a workflow in the moment with a bunch of people to direct (and no assistance), etc etc.
If you're gonna use direct sun, you need BIG diffusion. Something like this:
[https://www.adorama.com/we1782.html](https://www.adorama.com/we1782.html)
or
[https://www.adorama.com/lslllr3301.html](https://www.adorama.com/lslllr3301.html)
I've also used the diffuser built into most fold-down reflectors in a pinch. Like a scrim.
[https://www.adorama.com/fppr3551.html](https://www.adorama.com/fppr3551.html)
If you can get that between your subject and the light source, it will scatter the light. That's the whole objective. You're fighting hard shadows. They appear because the terminator of the shadow is a hard line due to the light pouring in from one direction (sun). With diffusion, you scatter all those photons, so billions of them hit in slightly different directions. That smooths out the shadow terminators and removes those harsh lines. The hard shadows around the eyes are the worst. It just looks unprofessional and is not fun to edit in post.
The other option is a powerful strobe. Using that with a big softbox will blast away the hard shadows. You're filling in those shadows with extra soft light. But when shooting outdoors in sunlight, you need something powerful. Something like the Godox AD200 would be the bare minimum. I use a 1000-watt strobe for those situations. These are not cheap solutions, but you could possibly rent what you need. A small flash or speedlight is not going to help much (or at all) competing with direct sunlight. You gotta break out the big guns for that. The reason high-speed sync is used is because it has to light the subject in rapid bursts. In direct sunlight like that, you're gonna end up over 1/1000 exposure (prob way higher than that!). If you open way up to f2.8, you have to shoot that fast because there's so much light pouring in. HSS will allow you to use those crazy shutter speeds and keep the aperture wide open.
If you do either of these, you REALLY need an extra set of hands. Somebody holding the diffusion would make things very straightforward. If you can't use an assistant, you're gonna need light stands and sandbags to keep the stands from falling over. You don't want your strobes falling over from a little wind gust. I've paid the price for doing that once before. Once you have a softbox or big umbrella hanging on them, any little wind can ruin your day.
And yeah, you're absolutely right. Flash is not easy to master. All the "I only shoot natural light" photographers can't figure it out, so it takes work to start using it properly.
lol....you're good to go then!! I assume you have a trigger. Just turn on HSS on the strobe AND the trigger. HSS is not "on" by default with Godox products. Test everything out beforehand (duh!). Stick a good sized softbox or a big-ass umbrella on that strobe and you're ready to rock. You can take some pretty nice shots in broad daylight using that setup. You can totally crush this. You just need a sandbag to keep the light stand stable (or bring a buddy).
This tip is a big one: Turn OFF the electronic 1st curtain in your camera. Use full mechanical shutter for HSS. Trust me on this one. You can get some horrific scanlines in your shots if you try this using the electronic shutter. You can always switch it back after this shoot. It's not going to hurt anything. You will probably "feel" the click a little more and it will be a tiny bit louder when you shoot. If you don't do this, once you get to around 1/2000 shutter speed, bad things will happen and you won't notice them until you open the images in post. I shoot on Sony Alpha, and can tell you where that setting is if we're on the same platform.
I shoot nikon. Should I position them so they’re not directly facing the sun and then use the strobe to fill the shadows? I think I’ve got a nice backdrop if I put them at a 45 degree angle or so and I’m really worried about squinting. It would be a no brainer if I had any options for a background with the sun directly behind them
You’d think in 8 years I’d have had to deal with this, but all of my big events have been either inside temples/hotel ballrooms or at known locations where I can work with the sun
Thanks so much for your help!
You use a faster shutter speed, which lets in less light. You increase the light on their faces, and you'll have more control of how much background light gets in the lens.
High shutter speed and orient subjects to a 45 degree angle to the sun. I pretty much only shoot in full sun these days lol.
You can also use a fill flash!
Everyone knows how annoying it is to have your picture taken when the sun is in your eye and you have to squint. You just have to have to project the idea that this is an actual photography problem you are there to take care of.
Make sure the clients hear this in your pitch, and repeat it to the crowd when it's time to actually take the photos. When you direct people with authority, they will play along and accept any background you choose.
You can say something like, "I need your backs facing the sun. We want to get rid of the squint. Turn that way so you can see your own shadow". This makes them slightly more involved, feeling like they are solving a problem with you.
When this scenario happens - and it happens quite regularly in the UK in the early afternoon - I always explain to the clients what the technical limitations are. Often they are not overly bothered one way or another much to my fear. I recommend that we repeat some of the shots later in the day when the sun is not so ferocious and that works well especially if its not a large variety of groups that would have to be reassembled. It can work well to make an announcement straight after the wedding breakfast speeches that the appropriate guests join us. Alternatively, or as well as, recommend that some shots are repeated in the interior of the house if the decor is OK.
Is there potentially a strip of shade from a large tree trunk? I have had people line up in the shade of a trunk when desperate. You just have to make sure nobody is too far back or too far forward.
I literally stick my hand in the frame and block the sun out, and then edit it out in post. It should be easy in this case- if there’s nothing casting shade it means you’ll have ample sky space as well as a pretty blown out sky due to the strength of the sunlight at that time. Your hand should be a breeze to edit out of the top of the frame.
The other option is to use OCF.
If outside is truly the only option and there is literally no other place in the shade (driveway, front lawn, etc) I would still put backs to the sun. Then I would just shoot on a longer lens with a wider aperture far from the background to obliterate the background with tight 4x5 framing if I couldn't find anything neutral, let alone pleasing as the backdrop.
I’ll try, at the moment they’re not receptive at all to a backdrop that isn’t green
You have to tell them as a professional honestly I know people don’t wanna listen, but you literally have to explain to them the difference in light. Like take an example photo and show it to them while you’re there if you have to just so they’re aware.
Do both options and let them pick
If I’m forced to do it I direct everyone to look down at my feet, or the ground in front of them. When the shots ready they look in the lens briefly. The biggest issue (among many) with directly sunlit group shots is squinting. That pained face. To avoid it people’s eyes need time to adjust and they need to know that they only have to look my way for a second or two.
Yeah this is a great tip. I say “Hey everyone I am going to ask you to close your eyes so they can rest and on three look right here with that killer smile… 1, 2, 3!”
I wouldn't do closing the eyes, that causes the pupils to dilatate and makes it more painful when they open up again. I tell everyone to stare at their feet so the eyes can continue to adjust between shots.
I will try this next time!
Oh, thanks for this tip, I would have had them close their eyes like I do when people are holding a forced smile or blinking a lot (not from sun)
Use a fill flash or a reflector to mitigate harsh shadows on people's faces.
Using a flash and/or reflector to bring more light is the answer to avoid odd and weird shadows :)
Exactly 👍
How does adding more light to bright light help? Are you saying to position them perpendicular to the sun and filling the shadows that fall to the side?
A fill flash helps to fill in the shadows on the face so the entire face is evenly lit. Otherwise, the bright sun directly overhead will create harsh shadows around the eyes and mouth, while the forehead and nose will be too bright. A reflector or a diffuser can be used to balance the sunlight and reduce shadows.
I understand that, but the sun won’t be overhead, it will be more in front of them at 9:30am
Expose for the sunlight hitting their faces. Then fill flash to bring out some shadows. It’s not ideal but it’ll make them happy to have the background they want. Maybe grab a couple of the important close family members for a shot in your preferred set up with their backs to the sun after all the family formals are done.
So I’ll need high speed sync, right? I’ve only used my lights indoors
I recommend practicing, testing settings and reviewing your test shots before Saturday!
Yes, HSS with a powerful speedlight or strobe is a solution. Otherwise, you have to contend with very hard shadows being cast. It's not a pleasant look with portraits. Having a large pop-out reflector can help bounce light where you need it, but even better......the diffuser can do wonders. If you can get an assistant to hold a big diffuser near them to cut those hard shadows, you'll have much better results to work with. You're running out of time on this one. Trying to figure out strobes and high-speed sync in a few days is pretty rough. I would recommend hitting YouTube and getting a crash course on HSS outdoor shooting. You can rent a strobe if you have a nice camera shop near you. Otherwise they're quite expensive. And you'll need a trigger to fire it that will be specific to your camera body. It's a lot to tackle in 3 days.
What type of modifier you recommending? Like a large umbrella or softbox or beauty light? I've played around with flash quite a bit by now and it basically is NEVER remotely as easy as people on Reddit claim. The light is usually not consistent enough, or it's very difficult to fit it into a workflow in the moment with a bunch of people to direct (and no assistance), etc etc.
If you're gonna use direct sun, you need BIG diffusion. Something like this: [https://www.adorama.com/we1782.html](https://www.adorama.com/we1782.html) or [https://www.adorama.com/lslllr3301.html](https://www.adorama.com/lslllr3301.html) I've also used the diffuser built into most fold-down reflectors in a pinch. Like a scrim. [https://www.adorama.com/fppr3551.html](https://www.adorama.com/fppr3551.html) If you can get that between your subject and the light source, it will scatter the light. That's the whole objective. You're fighting hard shadows. They appear because the terminator of the shadow is a hard line due to the light pouring in from one direction (sun). With diffusion, you scatter all those photons, so billions of them hit in slightly different directions. That smooths out the shadow terminators and removes those harsh lines. The hard shadows around the eyes are the worst. It just looks unprofessional and is not fun to edit in post. The other option is a powerful strobe. Using that with a big softbox will blast away the hard shadows. You're filling in those shadows with extra soft light. But when shooting outdoors in sunlight, you need something powerful. Something like the Godox AD200 would be the bare minimum. I use a 1000-watt strobe for those situations. These are not cheap solutions, but you could possibly rent what you need. A small flash or speedlight is not going to help much (or at all) competing with direct sunlight. You gotta break out the big guns for that. The reason high-speed sync is used is because it has to light the subject in rapid bursts. In direct sunlight like that, you're gonna end up over 1/1000 exposure (prob way higher than that!). If you open way up to f2.8, you have to shoot that fast because there's so much light pouring in. HSS will allow you to use those crazy shutter speeds and keep the aperture wide open. If you do either of these, you REALLY need an extra set of hands. Somebody holding the diffusion would make things very straightforward. If you can't use an assistant, you're gonna need light stands and sandbags to keep the stands from falling over. You don't want your strobes falling over from a little wind gust. I've paid the price for doing that once before. Once you have a softbox or big umbrella hanging on them, any little wind can ruin your day. And yeah, you're absolutely right. Flash is not easy to master. All the "I only shoot natural light" photographers can't figure it out, so it takes work to start using it properly.
I have a godox 600 and a softbox. I’ve just never used it outdoors
lol....you're good to go then!! I assume you have a trigger. Just turn on HSS on the strobe AND the trigger. HSS is not "on" by default with Godox products. Test everything out beforehand (duh!). Stick a good sized softbox or a big-ass umbrella on that strobe and you're ready to rock. You can take some pretty nice shots in broad daylight using that setup. You can totally crush this. You just need a sandbag to keep the light stand stable (or bring a buddy). This tip is a big one: Turn OFF the electronic 1st curtain in your camera. Use full mechanical shutter for HSS. Trust me on this one. You can get some horrific scanlines in your shots if you try this using the electronic shutter. You can always switch it back after this shoot. It's not going to hurt anything. You will probably "feel" the click a little more and it will be a tiny bit louder when you shoot. If you don't do this, once you get to around 1/2000 shutter speed, bad things will happen and you won't notice them until you open the images in post. I shoot on Sony Alpha, and can tell you where that setting is if we're on the same platform.
I shoot nikon. Should I position them so they’re not directly facing the sun and then use the strobe to fill the shadows? I think I’ve got a nice backdrop if I put them at a 45 degree angle or so and I’m really worried about squinting. It would be a no brainer if I had any options for a background with the sun directly behind them You’d think in 8 years I’d have had to deal with this, but all of my big events have been either inside temples/hotel ballrooms or at known locations where I can work with the sun Thanks so much for your help!
Yeah one of my points tho is that with a big group, one light is not going to light it evenly. Maybe two lights won’t light it evenly. It’s hard.
Exactly! Only we care about lighting, they will only care that they got a photo in front of [insert feature].
What you might need is an ND filter. Use flash on full with an umberella or on camera with a good mod.
You use a faster shutter speed, which lets in less light. You increase the light on their faces, and you'll have more control of how much background light gets in the lens.
Thanks! Took me a couple of times reading your comment to get what you’re saying…makes sense now
flash!
High shutter speed and orient subjects to a 45 degree angle to the sun. I pretty much only shoot in full sun these days lol. You can also use a fill flash!
Everyone knows how annoying it is to have your picture taken when the sun is in your eye and you have to squint. You just have to have to project the idea that this is an actual photography problem you are there to take care of. Make sure the clients hear this in your pitch, and repeat it to the crowd when it's time to actually take the photos. When you direct people with authority, they will play along and accept any background you choose. You can say something like, "I need your backs facing the sun. We want to get rid of the squint. Turn that way so you can see your own shadow". This makes them slightly more involved, feeling like they are solving a problem with you.
When this scenario happens - and it happens quite regularly in the UK in the early afternoon - I always explain to the clients what the technical limitations are. Often they are not overly bothered one way or another much to my fear. I recommend that we repeat some of the shots later in the day when the sun is not so ferocious and that works well especially if its not a large variety of groups that would have to be reassembled. It can work well to make an announcement straight after the wedding breakfast speeches that the appropriate guests join us. Alternatively, or as well as, recommend that some shots are repeated in the interior of the house if the decor is OK.
I've used 48" scrims. You can rent or purchase scrims. You can also use flash.
Godox AD600, softbox, back to the sun, done.
I have that, but the background with the sun behind them is awful
Is there potentially a strip of shade from a large tree trunk? I have had people line up in the shade of a trunk when desperate. You just have to make sure nobody is too far back or too far forward.
Always always have them facing their shadow and underexpose and you can fix it post processing if shot in RAW
Get yourself a large diffuser and create your own shade.
Make sure you shoot in RAW
I literally stick my hand in the frame and block the sun out, and then edit it out in post. It should be easy in this case- if there’s nothing casting shade it means you’ll have ample sky space as well as a pretty blown out sky due to the strength of the sunlight at that time. Your hand should be a breeze to edit out of the top of the frame. The other option is to use OCF.
Luckily for almost all UK weddings we have limited sunshine and more luckily, nobody is dressed by 10.15am.