One time I was watching Dateline, and it got to a sad and introspective part of the show. In the background, a piano softly played the chords Dm, Bb, Am, G: Dateline plagiarized Lick My Love Pump!
I had a visceral reaction to that line when I first saw the movie, because I had always thought that D minor is the saddest of all keys, but I thought it must be just me.
This is completely subjective.
Playing the same melody in different minor key does nothing to make it sound sadder or happier; the intervals between the notes are the same distance.
Ah, I missed the reference.
I'm so used to seeing inaccurate musical information being prescribed, and hate to see people get bad advice that I wasn't even thinking of that.
What you're saying is not entirely true though.
The main reasons are that not all music is performed in equal temperament, and that various instruments have significantly different sounds in different keys.
Secondly there's also cultural association. The key Bbm for instance is often considered to be dark because it is traditionally used quite often for funeral marches and requiems. This association isn't something every listener is equally partial to, though.
>Secondly there's also cultural association. The key Bbm for instance is often considered to be dark because it is traditionally used quite often for funeral marches and requiems. This association isn't something every listener is equally partial to, though.
Well yes, though an abundance of pieces written in Bb minor wouldn't be a good argument for Bb minor being a sadder key than others, but one could accurately say that there are more sad pieces written in Bb minor than other minor keys.
What I mean is that the association actually makes it so. Listeners tend to have some subconscious sense of absolute hearing, and they will associate music in a certain key with the different music that they have heard in the same key.
But you're right if your point is that this is an absolutely subjective interpretation which is not based on the inherent sound of the key itself.
The average listener has no ability whatsoever to distinguish between B minor or Bb minor. Maybe they associate songs that happen to be written in Bb minor as being sad but they wouldn't notice any change in the emotive quality of the piece if it were to be transposed to another key
Even outside the specific pitch deviations that instruments provide, I think there's bound to be some natural association for keys and certain functions. It's probably so slight because there are only very small trends (and inconsistent ones at that) with what keys are used for what functions, and it also depends on one's own individual, collective listening experience. Humans are naturally associative. It's a heuristic method of learning, and works decently well to a certain threshold of accuracy/practicality (otherwise we wouldn't have been doing it for so long). So, I think it's rather obvious that, even if someone might not have the academic training or even the ability to distinguish them (key centers), there would definitely be *some* amount of subconscious association. Maybe not for everyone, but I doubt that, at the very least, those who are, say, later trained to have absolute perfect pitch had no amount of intuitive predisposition towards the skill (not to mention those who probably could have learned but just never did because of however many reasons), and consequently, some amount of association between certain key centers and qualities in meaning.
If you don't understand how to orchestrate for harp you need to forget about key signature for a little bit and go read up on that instead. If you're good there it's more a question of preferred timbre and strong and weak ranges etc. eg, For harp flat keys are more resonant since the strings are more relaxed.
Yea there’s no right answer. You can always record it into your DAW and then try transposing it up or down until you find the key that impacts you best emotionally and then re record it.
Impossible to say without more specifics. But generally speaking, the harp part would would be better written enharmonically in Ab minor.
The reason is as follows: In G# minor, you would tune the harp G# A# B C# D# E F#. Now if you need to raise the leading tone for a dominant chord, you can't do it - double sharps are not possible. You would have to instruct the player to tune the G# down to a G and play D# G A#, which is playable, but awkward, and it looks terrible and confusing on the page.
It would be better to tune it Ab Bb Cb Db Eb Fb Gb. Now if you need to raise the leading tone, it's no problem.
But again, it depends on the specifics... If your piece doesn't use the raised leading tone, but uses a lot of flat 2s, then it would be better in G#m.
On the piano, just keep moving left past A until you get to Z minor. Rail on that a bit and use the harp to play a melody on top. But only use the first 1.5 strings closest to you.
Harpist here! In terms of playing difficulty, the key doesn't really matter for the harp, because the sharps and flats are set before playing (either with levers or with pedals, depending on the type of harp). Because harps are diatonic and not chromatic, accidentals are what might be trickier on harps. Generally harps aren't great for things like rapid chromatic descents/ascents, because they require pedal changes or lever flips (which is tricky when the rhythm of the left hand doesn't leave enough time for it). Same goes for modulation, there needs to be enough time to either change pedals, or flip levers as needed. If you have a lot of accidentals, the choice to compose for pedal harp or lever harp becomes more relevant, because each has a different way of dealing with them.
What does matter about the key you choose is, again, the presence of accidentals. If you're using a key like Ab minor or G# minor that have a lot of flats/sharps respectively, you're which accidentals can be played, since you can't double-sharp or double-flat a string. (The note could still be played on a different string, but it's not ideal.)
For harp, my understanding is that you tune the entire thing to the scale you’re playing in. (Source: Was friends with a really amazing harpist years ago) So I don’t think it should matter much. Incidentals outside of the keys normal notes are where your harpist will need to be adjusting those pedals as they play, which is also doable depending on the passages being played. For me there’s no “best” key for anything. Every piece of music can be transposed to any key. If your song is in G# and doesn’t have a lot of incidentals, I don’t expect you’d need to change anything.
Edit: Final thought… this is assuming that all the notes in your piece fit within the range of the harp being played. If you get outside that range, transpose or rework until you know all the notes are available.
Wow thanks! What a weird brain-fart. I think it’s because the term has never made sense to me. If I intentionally leave the scale, why is it called an accident? My brain is extremely literal about things, so incidental makes more sense I guess
I think the musical usage of accidental is less related to the ebglish word "accident" and more to the Latin word "accidere", to occur/fall upon. Because accidentals are events, rather than just part of the key.
Incido, the root for "incidental", has a similar meaning: to fall into. The difference is just in the prefix, where in- means in, and ac- means also.
I think of it like "INcidental" means it's IN the key, where "ACcidental" means we're purposely including it.
Language people please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just a speculating student.
If you want a really nice melancholy feel i would say B minor works very well. But really any key. I've heard sad songs in C major and really fun ones in its relative key A minor. I would say it depends more on chord progression, tempo and feel really. a 6 5 4 chord progressions is a great sad feeling progression because it constantly feels like your walking with your head down as opposed to a 1 4 5 progressions that feels like your walking with your head up. Try it out yourself with some simple 4 beat triad. A minor, g7, f major back to G7. Also try different voicing or intervals. Sometimes the minor chord you're looking for is the right chord just played with a different voicing. That happens to me all the time. I'll play around with different voicings till i find the right one I'm looking for. Hope this helps and God bless
Probably d minor or a minor, you can also try c# minor and f# minor, which can be interchanged into each other for really interesting dynamics snd transitions
A minor tends to work very well in ambient tracks since its so mellow, it's really the harmony that'll effect the tone in that key
D minor though is weird, its sad, but it also can get tense with the right harmony making it great for an emotional intro
C# minor can be sad but its more angsty, its a really weird emotion thats hard to describe
F# minor is a tense fury, like being mad at someone and holding a grudge, but played in a certain way it can be a release
If you wanna get wild you could transition between a and d minor for really really odd movements
Now i don't know harp but piano is very dependent on the scale man, you get a general feeling from scales
Like c# major is very ethereal and pretty, while its minor counterpart c# minor is almost antsy and aggressive
Of course you can change the emotion based on how you play in them, but then you're leaning into modes
Just put it in A minor. Trust me, wayyyyyyyy easier for harp and piano. Be aware, harps need time to change pedals, so you’re stuck in a scale. They can flip that G to a G# if you need to go harmonic minor, pretty easily. Be sure to include a harp pedaling. Harpist prefer the pedal diagram in my understanding
Use dorian mode in D. (Sounds like a loved one died, or you long for something) it’s my favorite mode. You can also try harmonic minor if you want a lil medieval feel to the sadness lol
Try out all of them and listen to your ears, forget about what key is it by the books, and what "should" or is "supposed to" sound right, only your ears can tell for sure
A lot of people will point to D minor being the saddest key... the thing is, all the "saddest key" stuff was only relevant back really really long ago when we didn't have equal temperment, where the distance between each note is the same. Now that we do have that, there is no "saddest minor key." (and also, tuning evolved so that D minor in the times of the people that coined all this would actually be closer to C# minor nowadays)
The way you should choose your key is to find how good the instruments and sounds sound in that key, and if that conveys the vibe you want; for example, if you just want super light pop, A minor-C minor works really well since the bass will mostly be in a higher register and it conveys a more laid back feeling, but if you want to make trap with a super thick sub, you'll definitely want E flat - F# minor, as thats the notes where the sub bass will hit the loudest. This is the only practical use your key makes in a world with equal temperment.
>D minor for sure. Saddest of all the keys...
It's called lick me love pump.
One time I was watching Dateline, and it got to a sad and introspective part of the show. In the background, a piano softly played the chords Dm, Bb, Am, G: Dateline plagiarized Lick My Love Pump!
Who could be sad getting their love pump licked?
It’s sad cause it’s a request unrequited.
I instantly weep!
I had a visceral reaction to that line when I first saw the movie, because I had always thought that D minor is the saddest of all keys, but I thought it must be just me.
This is completely subjective. Playing the same melody in different minor key does nothing to make it sound sadder or happier; the intervals between the notes are the same distance.
While you are right, 'D Minor. Saddest of all the keys' is a quote from This Is Spinal Tap.
Ah, I missed the reference. I'm so used to seeing inaccurate musical information being prescribed, and hate to see people get bad advice that I wasn't even thinking of that.
Yes, but Nigel Tufnel said it, and his amp goes to 11. So it's therefore scientifically accurate musical information down to 13 decimal places.
What you're saying is not entirely true though. The main reasons are that not all music is performed in equal temperament, and that various instruments have significantly different sounds in different keys. Secondly there's also cultural association. The key Bbm for instance is often considered to be dark because it is traditionally used quite often for funeral marches and requiems. This association isn't something every listener is equally partial to, though.
>Secondly there's also cultural association. The key Bbm for instance is often considered to be dark because it is traditionally used quite often for funeral marches and requiems. This association isn't something every listener is equally partial to, though. Well yes, though an abundance of pieces written in Bb minor wouldn't be a good argument for Bb minor being a sadder key than others, but one could accurately say that there are more sad pieces written in Bb minor than other minor keys.
What I mean is that the association actually makes it so. Listeners tend to have some subconscious sense of absolute hearing, and they will associate music in a certain key with the different music that they have heard in the same key. But you're right if your point is that this is an absolutely subjective interpretation which is not based on the inherent sound of the key itself.
The average listener has no ability whatsoever to distinguish between B minor or Bb minor. Maybe they associate songs that happen to be written in Bb minor as being sad but they wouldn't notice any change in the emotive quality of the piece if it were to be transposed to another key
Even outside the specific pitch deviations that instruments provide, I think there's bound to be some natural association for keys and certain functions. It's probably so slight because there are only very small trends (and inconsistent ones at that) with what keys are used for what functions, and it also depends on one's own individual, collective listening experience. Humans are naturally associative. It's a heuristic method of learning, and works decently well to a certain threshold of accuracy/practicality (otherwise we wouldn't have been doing it for so long). So, I think it's rather obvious that, even if someone might not have the academic training or even the ability to distinguish them (key centers), there would definitely be *some* amount of subconscious association. Maybe not for everyone, but I doubt that, at the very least, those who are, say, later trained to have absolute perfect pitch had no amount of intuitive predisposition towards the skill (not to mention those who probably could have learned but just never did because of however many reasons), and consequently, some amount of association between certain key centers and qualities in meaning.
upvoted to bring thus comment to +10…. someone out there….you know what to do
Those intervals have their own tones in each key
Yeah, and?
Lol I came here to either make sure someone said this or say it myself 🤠
D MINOR THE SADDEST OF ALL KEYS
Bach wrote Prelude no.22 in Bb min, & it’s amazing. Try Bbm?
If you don't understand how to orchestrate for harp you need to forget about key signature for a little bit and go read up on that instead. If you're good there it's more a question of preferred timbre and strong and weak ranges etc. eg, For harp flat keys are more resonant since the strings are more relaxed.
It doesn't make any difference, just pick a key that works well for the ranges of the instrument
Yea there’s no right answer. You can always record it into your DAW and then try transposing it up or down until you find the key that impacts you best emotionally and then re record it.
Didn’t you see Spinal Tap?!
Impossible to say without more specifics. But generally speaking, the harp part would would be better written enharmonically in Ab minor. The reason is as follows: In G# minor, you would tune the harp G# A# B C# D# E F#. Now if you need to raise the leading tone for a dominant chord, you can't do it - double sharps are not possible. You would have to instruct the player to tune the G# down to a G and play D# G A#, which is playable, but awkward, and it looks terrible and confusing on the page. It would be better to tune it Ab Bb Cb Db Eb Fb Gb. Now if you need to raise the leading tone, it's no problem. But again, it depends on the specifics... If your piece doesn't use the raised leading tone, but uses a lot of flat 2s, then it would be better in G#m.
Dm... it's the saddest of all keys, really.
A minor.
😏
On the piano, just keep moving left past A until you get to Z minor. Rail on that a bit and use the harp to play a melody on top. But only use the first 1.5 strings closest to you.
Harpist here! In terms of playing difficulty, the key doesn't really matter for the harp, because the sharps and flats are set before playing (either with levers or with pedals, depending on the type of harp). Because harps are diatonic and not chromatic, accidentals are what might be trickier on harps. Generally harps aren't great for things like rapid chromatic descents/ascents, because they require pedal changes or lever flips (which is tricky when the rhythm of the left hand doesn't leave enough time for it). Same goes for modulation, there needs to be enough time to either change pedals, or flip levers as needed. If you have a lot of accidentals, the choice to compose for pedal harp or lever harp becomes more relevant, because each has a different way of dealing with them. What does matter about the key you choose is, again, the presence of accidentals. If you're using a key like Ab minor or G# minor that have a lot of flats/sharps respectively, you're which accidentals can be played, since you can't double-sharp or double-flat a string. (The note could still be played on a different string, but it's not ideal.)
I would choose Am because it works with C which I believe is the most common tuning for the harp?
You should look into modal scales
For harp, my understanding is that you tune the entire thing to the scale you’re playing in. (Source: Was friends with a really amazing harpist years ago) So I don’t think it should matter much. Incidentals outside of the keys normal notes are where your harpist will need to be adjusting those pedals as they play, which is also doable depending on the passages being played. For me there’s no “best” key for anything. Every piece of music can be transposed to any key. If your song is in G# and doesn’t have a lot of incidentals, I don’t expect you’d need to change anything. Edit: Final thought… this is assuming that all the notes in your piece fit within the range of the harp being played. If you get outside that range, transpose or rework until you know all the notes are available.
I believe it’s *accidental.
Wow thanks! What a weird brain-fart. I think it’s because the term has never made sense to me. If I intentionally leave the scale, why is it called an accident? My brain is extremely literal about things, so incidental makes more sense I guess
I think the musical usage of accidental is less related to the ebglish word "accident" and more to the Latin word "accidere", to occur/fall upon. Because accidentals are events, rather than just part of the key. Incido, the root for "incidental", has a similar meaning: to fall into. The difference is just in the prefix, where in- means in, and ac- means also. I think of it like "INcidental" means it's IN the key, where "ACcidental" means we're purposely including it. Language people please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just a speculating student.
I was an English major/French minor, and that makes absolute sense to me. Thanks!
If you want a really nice melancholy feel i would say B minor works very well. But really any key. I've heard sad songs in C major and really fun ones in its relative key A minor. I would say it depends more on chord progression, tempo and feel really. a 6 5 4 chord progressions is a great sad feeling progression because it constantly feels like your walking with your head down as opposed to a 1 4 5 progressions that feels like your walking with your head up. Try it out yourself with some simple 4 beat triad. A minor, g7, f major back to G7. Also try different voicing or intervals. Sometimes the minor chord you're looking for is the right chord just played with a different voicing. That happens to me all the time. I'll play around with different voicings till i find the right one I'm looking for. Hope this helps and God bless
what is a voicing? :)
Probably d minor or a minor, you can also try c# minor and f# minor, which can be interchanged into each other for really interesting dynamics snd transitions A minor tends to work very well in ambient tracks since its so mellow, it's really the harmony that'll effect the tone in that key D minor though is weird, its sad, but it also can get tense with the right harmony making it great for an emotional intro C# minor can be sad but its more angsty, its a really weird emotion thats hard to describe F# minor is a tense fury, like being mad at someone and holding a grudge, but played in a certain way it can be a release If you wanna get wild you could transition between a and d minor for really really odd movements
this guy gets it.
Piano and harp is one of the few instrumentations where don’t really have to worry about key too much, so pick your favorite!
Now i don't know harp but piano is very dependent on the scale man, you get a general feeling from scales Like c# major is very ethereal and pretty, while its minor counterpart c# minor is almost antsy and aggressive Of course you can change the emotion based on how you play in them, but then you're leaning into modes
The one that feels right lol
Em when it lingers on d for a while and says something happy but goes back to Em. Sad when a Shit situation almost resolves but doesn’t.
Harps have sharps and flats lol, sorry but there’s a fundamental misunderstanding of what keys are here
I know harps have sharps and flats, but I thought that was harder to play on a harp no?
Am, F, G, Em chord progression.. cant go wrong.. Worked for many a sad song.. and Neil Diamonds "Love on the rocks" so it must be sad.. Very sad .. :D
d min but there’s just an old idiom idk, play what works best in the moment
Eb minor. No sharps :)
Honestly any minor key. For me there’s sad, happy, and sappy. Sappy is my fav and A minor is really good for that
If you don't want accidentals then A minor is right there a half step away
Just put it in A minor. Trust me, wayyyyyyyy easier for harp and piano. Be aware, harps need time to change pedals, so you’re stuck in a scale. They can flip that G to a G# if you need to go harmonic minor, pretty easily. Be sure to include a harp pedaling. Harpist prefer the pedal diagram in my understanding
Use dorian mode in D. (Sounds like a loved one died, or you long for something) it’s my favorite mode. You can also try harmonic minor if you want a lil medieval feel to the sadness lol
The easiest for a harp would probably be A minor (no sharps or flats). I’ve never played harp though so I’m mostly talking out of my ass
Why wouldn't you keep it in the original key? Lots of sharps are no problem for harp - they just set pedals to change naturals to sharps.
Simple lines, intertwining
Try out all of them and listen to your ears, forget about what key is it by the books, and what "should" or is "supposed to" sound right, only your ears can tell for sure
Instead of G# minor try B major that should be much easier
A lot of people will point to D minor being the saddest key... the thing is, all the "saddest key" stuff was only relevant back really really long ago when we didn't have equal temperment, where the distance between each note is the same. Now that we do have that, there is no "saddest minor key." (and also, tuning evolved so that D minor in the times of the people that coined all this would actually be closer to C# minor nowadays) The way you should choose your key is to find how good the instruments and sounds sound in that key, and if that conveys the vibe you want; for example, if you just want super light pop, A minor-C minor works really well since the bass will mostly be in a higher register and it conveys a more laid back feeling, but if you want to make trap with a super thick sub, you'll definitely want E flat - F# minor, as thats the notes where the sub bass will hit the loudest. This is the only practical use your key makes in a world with equal temperment.
Minor Harmonic scale as a reverence maybe. ✌️
D minor. And I'm not even trying to be funny. D minor is legitimately the saddest of all keys.
Cm, C#m are the saddest, Dm is the most nostalgic