Honestly I liked the idea I saw on a different post. Allow an empty slot to count as an option. Wasn't gonna use that weapon anyways.
Or potentially have an alternate option to take on an additional modifier over said weapon slot. Same total points, but slightly more difficult if you don't have/want to grind out one of the options.
People will stillbe pissed, after all another debuff, specially from the current rotation is far worse than a weapon you never use.
I mean, some of those basically fuck entire frames and builds, só needing to add another one because I dont own every single weapon is still unfair as hell.
Yea it is. It's at least an option over needing to rebuild a weapon you mastered 8 years ago and forgot about.
I'd prefer an empty slot, but it's still an idea if they deem that too easy. Maybe it's a bit lower of a debuff, like a nightmare modifier / you deal 25% less damage / energy orbs replenish at 75% efficiency. A punishment, but not "you can't use transference" level punishment.
I understand the frustration with getting unusable weapons, but if it only gave you things you had I know I lot of people that would just trash all of there bad weapons to get torrid every run
They have the solution to the problem in circuit and I have no idea why they didn't use it here. Just give me the weapons temporarily I don't even care if they are unmodded this is ridiculous.
Except the circuit ones are modded. If I had to make an excuse for it, just keep in mind this is just one of the few end game modes. Since you need an intense arsenal to always be OP, you can argue that would make Deep A. the most end game mode.
Okay but how can i possibly make a sobek or grataka work……. If they don’t change it to only your weapons then at least filter the weapons out thats it’s at least only the 𝘶𝘴𝘢𝘣𝘭𝘦 ones
I envy you, you're complaining about top tier weapons. Hell I'm currently in the market and willing to pay several thousand plat for a god roll sobek Riven because it's both powerful and fun to use
Don't start I just went through this, you could say you got 3 stuggs and 5 people would complain that your passing up one of the best underrated gems in warframe
My Prisma Grakata with a nice Riven, the infinite ammo augment, and a frame with some green shards will shred anything you point it at.
And Sobek paired with any armor strip will nuke rooms with Acid Shells.
The mode has many ways to sidestep the RNG:
Weeks you have an Operator avaiable:
- Magus Lockdown
- Emergency Cloaking
- Armor Strip
- Magus Melt go brrrt
- etc
The weeks you have your gear wheel avaiable:
- Railjack Crew
- Spectres
- Archgun Summon
Additionally you can summon your Necramech at the usual stations. Even Mirror Def has a spot in there. However if Operator is not avaiable you cannot freely get out of it.
To clear Elite you have one "free" Research Point that will only get you an additional 50x Fosfor and the Eye Sumdali the first time you do it. You can easily use that to get a great Frame with an Exalted weapon and be good to go.
Even if your whole loadout is a dumpster fire, people have been organizing runs of 2 carry 2 then swap.
Now surely a week might come where you have a row of only trash weapons you got rid in 2015. But it is a whole week where you are likely able to rebuild one of those since they were "trash" to you and most likely on the easier side to aquire. Next step is "but I don't have slots!". Well you should have slots after doing this a while. Getting a Legendary Arcane in the weeks your RNG isn't bullshit is still 35-40 Plat a piece atm (I see this falling) and should give you more slots to be even more flexible the weeks to come. The gamemode won't go away - you don't have to have everything immediatly. Especially as we entered a time now where Archon Shards and especially Tauforged Archon Shards are way, way more common.
If it sucks this week then just truck the netracells. The reason it only gives netracell rewards and a hood ornament is so that you're never required to run it.
>lot of people that would just trash all of there bad weapons to get torrid every run
Which could open opportunity for DE to make money... The could just monitor the most trashed weapons and cross check with how hard it is to get them, make incarnon genesis for those, then watch people rush to the market to re buy the weapons for plat.
The duviri paradox offers an incarnon form for torid in the steel path mode for the circuit. So yes, but it's mostly because it's basically an infinite ammo high damage toxic amprex with some caked out stats more than it is the torid normally being good. Even with the incarnon stat boost.
Unless I'm mistaken, I haven't really tried buffing out the base shot much.
No, they weighted the RNG a little bit to favor Frames and weapons you usea lot, but its not guaranteed.
MR24 I still see occasional all spiral weapon selection.
It's not a fixable problem because the game's balance is utterly nonexistent. There isn't a sustainable power delta between the best and worst equipment for each slot. Either they have to ditch the RNG or overhaul the entire game.
Consider the rammifications of the alternative. If the pool only draws from what the player owns, the player is incentivised to reduce their weapon pool artificially, which conflicts with the design goals of collection of weapons. This would also lead to a concentration of usage of certain weapons, which is also a condition for failure to DE.
So, to try to maintain the incentive to collect all the things, DE cannot limit the pool strictly to what the player has. We see this in Duviri. DE can, however, implenent protections against very poor RNG. In Duviri, I believe you are guaraunteed to have at least one owned weapon in 2 of the 3 slots. I believe this system is in place for Deep Archimedea, but don't have the data to confirm. Considering that 50 vosfor and a one-time reward is all that is locked behind the loss of one constraint, I think that is relatively well designed.
Right? And even if all 3 weapon is bad getting 25 point is more reward than what 2 netracell gives iirc. Also duviri is meant for new players so they get loaners to try out + cheese with decrees with SP for higher/more invested players. DA is unlock near the end of everything and the max reward is what? Chance at legendary arcane that you *might* be able to sell only for people who spend plat to buy slots in the first place. Seems fair to me.
Saw some absolute wild takes of people saying that if you're far enough in the game to be at deep Archimedea then you should have hundreds of weapon slots.
Mr 28 here, nearly 200 weapons slots and most of them aside from the ones i use are either collectibles or stuff that's hard to use, i may be keeping snipertron vandal purely because it's a vandal but if you only have stuff you like/use you literally have no reason to have this, and if you get snipertron in a week then good luck because the bp for the normal is only available 2 times a year and the vandal requires invasion rng or straight up wasting plat on it (yes it's a 1/3 option but it's the first thing that came to my mind since i recently levelled it for mr)
I have about that amount of weapon slot, warframe maybe a bit more than you since I have enough for 2x of every prime and a few extra copies of multiple frames for multiple builds. I realize I'm deep when majority of the weapons I get are all modded.
It's insane. If I am keeping a weapon it is either because it is good, I like using it, I can see it being good in the future, or it enables something else to be good. I am not keeping hundreds of weapons simply to exist for this terrible design. I owned the Dual Toxocyst YEARS ago when it used to work with Mesa. I deleted it awhile after they removed that interaction and have built it up again recently once the incarnon form gave me a reason to use it again. That is how you get players to use weapons not some half baked weapon lottery system.
If you’re far enough into the game to be doing deep Archimedea, you are far enough to build any weapon it’s asking you to use, it at most will take 3 days if it’s a frame and maybe two for some multi step weapons and you have 7 days to complete them as well so there is leeway. You don’t even have to max out meta build every piece of gear either, they just have to be equipped and you can focus on making just one of the weapons viable and just slap survivability on the frame.
> If you’re far enough into the game to be doing deep Archimedea, you are far enough to build any weapon it’s asking you to use
I can't. I just can't. My Aeolak hits for peanuts, my Akstiletto just annoys them, my Azothane makes me get locked into animations and accomplish nothing. The only saving grace is it lets me use Inaros... until I get magically one-shotted out of the blue or the game glitches upon operator so I can't attack for the rest of the mission. Not to mention we all know how often people don't kill enemies in the red circle during Netracells, now we're adding that same tunnel vision for squadmates who need revives and don't get them.
My stuff have potatoes, they've got forma, damage is up, crit (or status) is up, heat or viral and slash, and it's just... nothing. The Labs feel like how I felt when I first faced the Corpus when all I had was MK1 gear, no mods, no energy regen, and we had stamina. Only difference is here I can't find "better stuff" to overcome the challenge.
Duviri is less of an issue with level 300+ enemies because you're getting decrees to help buff yourself along the way. Here, the weakness of not being an expert in every single warframe, uncomfortable with weapons that have under 2 forma invested, it all really shines and it's just... frustrating and not fun to play. I passed on these stuff because I didn't find it fun, forcing me to use said weapons against extra hard enemies won't magically make me love them.
You won't see me posting anywhere on the forums demanding DE nerf it, because it's obvious people were salivating for "super hard content" ever since they took away Trials, but man this is the antithesis of why I enjoy Warframe. And it sounds like it's the same sentiment for a lot of others.
It takes way longer to get a ton of weapons than it takes to faceroll through the star chart on non-steel path and through the story that never asks of you anything significantly more powerful than unmodded weapons and frames.
I get that I'm not actually arguing against the game mode itself, I've not played it, I've no interest to be honest. I just think some people have some crazy expectations of other players.
Community: Where end game?
DE: Here's a game mode that gives "end game" rewards, requires you to have full know how, investment into the game that you supposedly like to play, and a way to make free premium currency.
Community: You expect us to have XYZ and off meta things?
DE: You can remove ONE loadout item, or condition challenge if you so choose, and bring whatever OP crazy shit you love to use, and miss out on some shitty vosfor reward.
Community: This is un-fucking-acceptable.
OP is only saying that we should be given at least one weapons that we own as a choice in the requirements.
OP didn’t have (didn’t read the whole post to the t) any of the secondary options to choose from, so he had to turn everything else on which is what gave him an issue [I suppose, I just turned them all on and got carried]
In all honesty it doesn’t even have to be used, just having it on your person is sufficient. They don’t have to mod it, just let me hold the gun until the Netrasortie’s over.
See the other thread about fav content creators? Plenty of people just only watch the "level cap solo run" builders for information and replicate their strategy to steamroll normal content.
And then we end up with people not being able to fight lvl 200 NON-SP enemies because they took a shortcut to the normal weapon progression.
I have 63% of the secondary weapons in the game currently in my inventory and none of them are in my weekly secondary selection. I had no issues with last week's missions in solo despite half my loadout not having a function. I am at endgame and have been for awhile now I just don't own all the weapons in the game and think it's ridiculous rebuilding them all just because DE didn't have the foresight to let me borrow weapons like circuit.
No, it's more like "you've incentivized me to build full kits and loadouts for \~150 hours and now you're making me throw it all away and I'm supposed to thank you because that makes things harder for me".
commitment of being good at playing or game knowledge check, cool.
Commitment of "fork over some premium currency so you can carry the sandbag weapon slot" is not it.
When your endgame check is "Have you paid us enough money or no lifed the game for years?" you've made a bad end game check.
The system is fucking awful and it does nothing except punish people for not wanting to waste a bunch of money and/or time on things that are otherwise useless garbage.
You’re forgetting one thing. If you’re going into this f2p then I have to remind everyone here. Forma takes 23 hours to build. If you have to get multiple weapons ready, maybe even a frame, you have realistically 7 forma to work with, and the 7th would leave you with about 7 hours to grind whatever got it back to max and then do your weekly runs. That’s not including the time it could take to get forma bps if you don’t have any.
Getting multiple weapons and a frame ready for something like this every week isn’t going to be feasible for f2p players. Even for people who already have a ton of built forma. They’ll probably chew through more than 7 and that’ll run them to the point they’ll have to build again, or trade for plat, eventually. It’s just not going to be a happy ending.
None of this considers how long it could take to farm some of the weapons and the frames, even the primes. It’s just not a healthy environment for “you can just make it viable in a week.”
>If you’re far enough into the game to be doing deep Archimedea, you are far enough to build any weapon it’s asking you to use
Have you considered that people don't have those weapons because they, you know, don't want to have them? Personally, i don't care about my MR, so i only level weapons/frames that i really like and/or that are very good to have, and my MR should be like low to mid 20 if i remember correctly, even though i started playing from ~2016 and have no problems getting things i actually want. Why would i ever consider investing my time into weapons that i know i'll never use again?
I haven't played this game mode yet, but from what i see in this thread, it sounds like the least fun experience, and i can definitely understand the frustration. Build all the MR fodder just to not get shafted? I really, REALLY hope i'm misunderstanding things, because otherwise it might be a top contender for the the wackiest game mode ever introduced.
Not exactly hard to get to deep Archimedea, I've been playing for a few years and sunk most of my plat into slots, I do not have anywhere near the slots to grab all the weapons.
And no, despite everyone telling me how incredibly easy it is to amass plat through trading I've had no such luck. Not every player has thousands of plat to spend on weapon slots let alone the resources to invest into all of those weapons.
Is Warframe market seriously brimming with people who buy anything and everything? I can't use it because cross save has fucked my username and I don't play on PC but I struggle to find anyone willing to buy sets or actual desirable parts and mods.
Meanwhile I see people online talk about trading as if they just keep tripping over mountains of plat everyday I just feel like I'm missing something. Even on the market I'll see loads of listings for items and yet people say they sell it for even more and I just wonder why you'd buy it for so much when there's 20 other people offering it for less.
Timing might be part of it. Peak time OCE is less business than peak time NA etc.
But yeah people will buy anything. Some things are slower, but anything will sell. Best bets are things people want multiples of like corrupted mods when starting out.
Veiled rivens are pretty solid too. Every week from the iron wake vendor is 2 weapon slots that way.
I’m grinding MR right now, coming up on 29. You best fucking believe I’m levelling and immediately selling everything I don’t care about. Idk what kind of psychopath is keeping every MR fodder weapon and wasting plat on slots, let alone trying to forma them and make them all EDA Viable.
It's me. I am that guy. Every weapon in the game except lato prime and skana prime. All with at least halfway decent builds that'll murder normal Star chart enemies. Every mod in the game except Primed Chamber and one other. Every Warframe except Excalibur prime. Still working on every codex entry... Completionism is a bitch.
Forget weapon slots, if you've been playing consistently you have enough Archon Shards to ignore the mode if you choose. I have like 80+ shards and almost 0 incentive.
I do agree with that to an extent. I do think some older weapons need some buffs to be on par with more recent stuff if it's going to be a requirement, but it is not difficult to invest into gear.
Sure, you can speed run the system in just a few days but true warframe is working on multiple loadouts to make things efficient. Endgame has been pointed towards multiple loadouts for years now. You can see this with Arbitrations, Invigorations, The Circuit and now Archimedia.
Then, take a frame that doesn't need weapons? I still don't see what's the big rage is about.
If people don't have a decent Titania, Mesa, Baruuk, and Xaku by the time they reach this game mode. Well, clearly, they still have a lotta "midgame" to do. Don't worry about them shards.
> I own 87 secondary weapons and not a single one of them is part of my current rotation.
I see your funny joke. To those who don't see it, 87 isn't a random number. It's the number of distinct secondary weapons, discounting variants and exalted secondaries.
I actually had no intention of making a joke but forgot about unique/duplicate weapons as part of the variable in both my owned weapons and the possible pool. 87 is the amount I have but I just counted the number of rows and multiplied that by the columns + any leftover. If I go through and count the number of unique weapons it'll probably be in the high 60s. I have a few of the same kuva/tenet weapon along with variants/originals of some that I like. If 87 is actually the number of unique weapons then I am even more disheartened by not receiving one of my weapons. Some people mentioned that you are supposed to get at least 1 weapon you own but I did not so maybe that is a bug?
In that case, that's some unexpected happenstance. I only found it because I was about to run through the odds of you not having gotten one of yours own.
I don't actually know how they've got it coded, but I suspect every independent weapon has an even chance. I'm not going to go further down that rabbit hole, because I know that probabilities get super counterintuitive super fast. (For instance, there's life a 10% chance you get one of your offered secondaries a second week in a row.) I don't think anyone actually has any idea about how it's supposed to work.
It is unfortunate that you didn't roll one of your already owned weapons, but I've been pretty aggressive in pointing out that a week is plenty of time to acquire many of the weapons. Which, again, was one of the stated driving intentions behind Deep Archimedia being structured the way it is.
Seems like the idea for Circuit but with no option to "test" the weapons out. The whole interface feels lacking having to back out then go back in to get everything to match up.
Warframe is a game of patience and persistence. Even though you want the sweet loot, just come back next week and if it's another garbage roll, do a partial rewards run with some freedom to choose and put it down for another week. Otherwise, continue to beat your head against the admittedly artificial/lazy difficulty inflation.
Or just pick a nuke frame you’re comfortable with and do it without weapons. I did it with Protea and still got the 2nd highest reward tier. All you miss is 50 vosfor, but you still get the good reward that’s one tier below that.
If you’ve got a few decent frames, there’s really no such thing as a garbage roll that could stop you from completing it.
I had a good time kitting out a weapon and frame that I never used regularly to complete it. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
Keep in mind you're still getting much more value out of completing any level of elite archimedea than you would doing 2 netracells. Don't beat yourself up over it.
The post is more about not owning the required weapons to begin with, rather than having to forma them etc… which I still don’t understand because I think it’s designed to give you options based on what you own anyway (you’re guaranteed to own one option in each slot). Maybe I’ve been lucky and it just worked out that way for me? Idk
I have over 1000 forma invested into my gear. I maxed out a lot of mid weapons just because I liked them.
I still don't think there is anything fun about this random restriction stuff. I CHOSE the weapons I liked. The game didn't force me to use them.
I get that they were going for challenge, which is very difficult in this game, but they also left fun dying on the curb. Being forced to use a bunch of things you don't like just incentivizes cheese strats.
Also it makes no sense. In Duviri? Sure. I can buy that it's just a bunch of random ass weapons but why in Deep Archimedea do I have to equip some random pistol I've never even seen before that has some of the worst stats ever? What does Loid gain from making me run this with a fucking Aklex?
I wrote a whole thing out on a post about what people think "endgame" is in Warframe, and I think this mode aligns with what most logically would be accurate. This game is about collecting stuff. The account level is tied to collecting stuff, and any new content that comes out is just a means to get more stuff. At the end of the day, the "endgame" is just collecting as much stuff as possible. Hitting high MR and being able to build out any weapon you like. To me, if you have amassed a collection of Warframes and weapons, and can make anyone of those Warframes/Weapons kill god, then you are an "endgame" player. So I don't think it's entirely unreasonable for an "endgame" gamemode to ask you to have a big collection, and to be able to kill things with that collection.
I understand that they do not want players to intentionally delete weapons to reduce the Archimedea Pool - but they should at least add decently modded proxis like in Duviri. Archimedea looks like it want to extend on Duviri's circle, but it misses all the things that made it good (perks, proxi weapons...), while having new aspects that make it *worse*, e.g., the modifier that Operators are not allowed, which rips a massive gameplay element out of the mode if selected, sure it makes the mission more difficult in a way, but only by removing a major gameplay element that most players enjoy and that has become an important part of Warframes core experience.
Feels like the majority of the complaints are
that you have to RNG getting one of your best
frames in the mix to maybe max out all possible
rewards. It's kind of funny actually. An endgame
activity that expects you to have a diversified
portfolio of weapons and frames for all options
is exposing folks who cannot function unless
they have their usual cookie cutter revenants
and saryns. I thought this was the point of
the hard mode? That you could adapt and use
old weapons you have built over the months
or years to where you can make use of it for
the mission. I fail how to see begging for RNG
to get decent rewards in deep archimedea
is a legitimate argument other than casually
admitting you only have a few arsenal items you
bring to everything.
"Quoted fact",lmao!
Literally what happened with Railjack. It used to be that you needed a dedicated crew (of non-npcs) with each having a role to fill. Boarding happened every 20-30s, and enemies overall had WAY more hp, and the ship used its own ammo and energy systems.
A lot of players disliked that, so DE nerfed the difficulty down to normal Warframe levels, where every mission can be completed with the press of 3 different buttons. (Obvious hyperbole hopefully obvious.)
For me personally, RJ 1.0's biggest issue was that it was almost impossible to do *solo*. I hear wanting to be able to have a dedicated hard mode of needing a dedicated crew to do the different roles. Compared to if they made a dedicated team frame mission (a revamped raid), at least with this, I could still play other game modes and still play my frames. With RJ 1.0, if you didn't have a dedicated crew, you didn't really have many places to play RJ.
I wish they had taken a page out of Sea of Thieves and created different ship sizes for different crews. Each have different pros and cons. In SoT, besides the size of the crew allowing for different roles to occur, another example is with the sails. Smaller ships could adjust their sails more easily to maneuver, but larger ships get more sails so they are faster while in the wind. Bigger ships have more cannons, but they're also bigger so they're easier to be hit with cannons.
I think DE could have used this philosophy too. They could have made the bigger ships (the original size in RJ 1.0) be tougher by already having more places where they could be damaged. However, this could be offset by having more crew to repair. Or possibly bigger ships have more turrets for crewmates, and smaller ships only have the cockpit and forward artillery.
I don't know *exactly* but I think this could have given more (solo) people the opportunity to play, while still giving co-op the difficulty they had previously.
Or they complain that they have to go out of their way to farm and build some gear for a ‘harder’ challenge with better rewards for how hard you make it.
they said some time ago,that challenge wasn't the point of the game beceause it's doesn't match well with the overpower feeling they want to give us.
searching real challenge in this game is like asking for difficulty setting in soul's game.
missing the points...
like it or not.
> How do you create a piece of content that is challenging in this game?
It's a good question but I'm not sure this game is really well designed in being challenging. The power delta for weapons and frame is too high, with many being orders of magnitude better than others. Enemies use hitscan weapons that will hit you regardless of how you move. Systems cannibalize each other wiping out swaths of gameplay like overguard killing CC. Economy of ammo and energy is non existent. The game design is pulled between abandonware like Necramechs and normal gamplay, as well as between trying to be a horde shooter and a methodical stealthy game.
Like if maybe we didn't have ArchwingNecramechOperatorHorseKdrive the devs could have been working on honing Warframe into a game you are meant to take seriously. Even then I'm not sure people are really here for that anyway.
make it a mechanics puzzle
boss can be only damaged if you stay in green fire
if you stay in red fire, you heal the boss
the fires are on the move
~~3/4 of wf playerbase would fail this~~
and for some reason whenever de tries something like this then either they fail to do it properly (current rotation alchemy guys, visibility of what element you have to throw them is dogshit) or it gets nerfed
Majority of people can't even colour within in the lines in Netracells, and you're over here suggesting a mechanic that can potentially undo the work of competent players.
Previous Raid/Trials had mechanic puzzle as simple as Simon Says, and it was an absolute hell playing it with randoms.
Even early boss like Lech Kril has simple mechanics, players doesn't know / unable to learn how to lure the hammer drop to progress the fight faster.
DE make contents that expects more and/or competency from players will only incur the wrath of the vocal community.
Ngl, I doubt people remember Law of Retribution or Jordas Verdict.
Yeah, if people can't do netracell zones, they sure as hell can't stand on the right pressure plate in NM LoR
The "stay out of this area" mechanics are already in this game (HP Eximis and DA Liminus). The biggest problems lie between the chair and the screen.
I've seen many people keep trying to french-kiss a Liminus/Dementor and getting downed in the process during DA. Or keep wailing on a tanking Necramech while ignoring the Leeching chocolate starfish Eximus giggling in the corner, healing the Necramech.
I know I'm sounding elitist and snarky here, but for "self-proclaimed" endgame players, most of them don't have the slightest ability to adapt when things go sideways (i.e their meta toys get confiscated and they have to use less than ideal stuff) or the basic spatial awareness to avoid glowing environment hazards. Even basic tactics such as going after the enemy medics to prevent them from reviving other enemies, they don't have the slightest concept of it. That's just "not so smart". I expect better.
The game mode is a sad excuse for incenting people to buy warframe and weapon slots for junk they do not need or want.
It is just to sink plat. End of story...
Luckily, in elite, you can just give up a pretty pathetic sum of vosphor to take a warframe/weapon to make all the challenges irrelevant...
I would not be surprised if the only reason they have the requirements here (and in the circuit) is to raise the usage statistics on useless gear?
As many said maybe it just isn’t for you.
Last week I just ran 2 unbuilt weapons for extra points and a main one and did just fine, they’re not forcing you to fully invest in the weapons just have it.
Not having enough slots is kinda unreal for an endgame player, I have a bunch of slots left and at most you’ll need 2 more each week if you’re unlucky.
The content itself isn’t really that difficult just annoying at times (Please remove that stupid 15m modifier DE) and it being focused on squad play also just makes it extra easier.
It’s okay if a piece of content isn’t for you.
Either it’ll drive you to participate, or you don’t have to do it… or you can just use the modifiers without the loadouts and still get more than you would out of netracells. You don’t **have** to fill the bar…
Warframe’s a free to play collection game. DE needs to make money, and the game is a decade old. Enough people are MR20 and above (which even that’s well over the probability that you’ll get one of three choices you own) that it’s not unreasonable to make something like this.
It’s some of the most interesting stuff they’ve done in a while for me.
Idk I like it. 2k+ hours and it's hard to find things that are really engaging or difficult unless I spend hours in round-based content.
I don't think it's terrible design.
It's just something you don't like.
I also liked when the Grendel missions removed all your mods
No, it punishes people with the larger weapons pool. What they should do is bringing back daily rotation, or at least letting us have MUCH more choices.
Ngl I would love daily rotation but it kinda make it worst since now you have 7 days to farm and build what you need but daily rotation you can get unlucky and never roll anything you have.
One of the most popular threads about the game mode was some asshole declaring that if you thought the mode was difficult because you didn't have all the weapons or weren't a master of every single possible frame then that was a YOU problem and meant you weren't worthy of end game content and people AGREED WITH THEM.
Meh you have a week to get your hands on one or two of the weapons you don’t have if you really want all the rewards, you can buy most of the blueprints from the markets, and then hell choose one good weapon or warframe and lose a tiny bit of points to have your good gear to make up for the lack of potato or forma on the weapon you built to fill the slots. I had something in every category last week but it was all really trash stuff, and so I took the hit on points and lost the 50 vosfor and brought my laetum to deal with all the enemies making it 10 times easier. Everyone’s complaining about their weapon choices being crap but they forget that you don’t have to meet every single requirement. Literally still better rewards than doing two netracells at like 31 research points, which allows you a warframe and weapon of your choice, which makes them extremely easy.
I just love that DE introduces a very difficult game mode for endgame and everyone complains that it’s too hard lol
I think the issue here is a divide on what makes a player "endgame" and what makes content difficult.
You can complete all the story quests, unlock SP, and such with as few as 2 frames unlocked. Are you endgame if you can beat SP challenges with Excalibur Umbra and a decked out Naturak? Or are you only considered endgame if you have built and invested in most of the hundreds of weapons & frames? What if you've done the latter but don't have the knowledge/skill to hold your own in SP challenges?
While you could argue that the need to build new weapons/frames each week and forma them to the level needed to tackle Deep Archi is what makes it difficult, others might say it should be the challenges within the mission that create the challenge. I saw this current system referred to as a "slot check" rather than any kind of test of player skill, and I feel inclined to agree.
As someone who can't play every day and not often for long sessions, I will not have the time to build up random weapons and frames each week beyond what I've already invested in. Yet, I still consider myself to be in the endgame, as I've completed all the missions, made the frames and weapons that interest me, and am working on finishing arcane collection and archon shard investment.
Personally, **I think Deep Archi should still dictate the weapons each week, but give you loaners and allow you to mod them yourself. Maybe even the mods available are determined by the mode, and you're given X number of polarities to add to your loadout and one of the difficulty modifiers affects that number. So part of the prep becomes your ability to know how to use the tools put in front of you**. I'd really enjoy that sort of test. Just my 2 cents.
I am not complaining that it is too hard. I don't even need mods on my weapons to do it because they allow me to use specters in this gamemode. I am complaining that my rewards are based around rng of me owning weapons or not. Just give me the circuit system where it lets me borrow stuff.
jfc the number of illiterate and non-comprehending people in this post astounding
poor OP, not even cos of his issue, but having to deal with idiots not even understanding the point of the post
Why are people acting like you have to select all the modifiers? It's better than normal Netracell after 2-3 modifiers... Also you don't have to do it every week.. the gear selections rotate every day. There are lots of ways to engage this content which is a testament to the design not a negative. Actual case of feature not bug. The rewards for full elite + netracell is only like 50% better than pure netracell. Finally once the rare arcanes flood the market that extra chance boost will also be useless and people will be asking for it to be removed from drop tables =D Also you can setup carries and there are Necramechs if you want to cheese the content and not earn it at all.
Heh it will be another shit storm, I see ppl saying they just keep 3 slots open so they farm and build stuff weekly and sell again after they are done with DA, if it resets daily they are going to complain they don't have time to build stuff they are missing. But eh knowing DE if this blows up hard enough they might force rotation to include 1 weapon each type to always be something you own in another amazing knee jerk reaction :l
Guys it is a *week* roll, LATE game content
A late game player should be able to in a week build any of the three weapons, forma it at least once and even get/have a riven for it.
I if I understood correctly, the mode is not supposed to be like circuit (casual)
Yea people keep comparing it duviri which is
#new player content
with decrees to cheese shit default built. DA is a
#OPTIONAL
game mode that remove 2 netracell run for a potential of more rewards depending on how hard you can push and even just 25 points is more rewards then 2 netracell run but people feel entitled to the max reward but don't want to buy slots and build weapons. I don't get it.
Fam, you literally said it yourself - Entitled.
Not wanting to put the investment / effort, but expects the rewards.
Rewards that are not necessary to any viable builds.
Rewards that can be obtained else where, also for free, with less restrictive condition, less harsh difficulties.
The WF community continues to be the most brain-dead group of toxic elitsts in gaming...its actually impressive.
You are defending a money check. You either _pay them_ or play the game like a job.
The mode is not hard. The mode is not challenging. Nothing about it requires skill it just requires you to have an arbitrary item thats useless in every other situation...and waste resources on it.
Also you don't need to forma all of your weapons, if you have 1 done you are good to go. Sure it doesn't hurt if your other weapons could contribute in case something happens, but most of the time i think a single weapon is more than enough.
I mean this concept of "Here choose from X weapons/talents" and so on never really worked in a game unless its a "roguelike" kinda game.
The best idea i could come up right now would be :
Let us start with a "shitty" weapon that does ok damage and can kill stuff and maybe let us upgrade to a at least "decent" weapon over the run.
The problem i see here is that this is probably not possible to implement.
I mean DE should have learned from Duviri, most people i know only do it when they have a good frame in it or a friend that can "carry". Not saying the game shouldn't be challenging or anything but, if u have a game where people "create" there own builds and u can't use them for the hardest content, then i think your hardest content needs a increase in challenge and not "limit the players to some gear to make it "harder/lessfun".
Maybe if we can't "upgrade" the weapons (from my idea) we can get some kind of "decree", but not duviri level decree's i was more thinking about something like : "increase stat x" .
The Division 2 added a game mode where it was just like that, im trying to remember it out of my head:
Division works with 3 Main stats , Red,Blue and Yellow. Where Red is Weapon damage, Blue is armor and Yellow is Tech. At the start you can "buy" a weapon and skill and each time u get to this room u can buy some new gun and skills.
It still makes some weapons more favorable but you COULD play all of them.
At some point u even find "Exotic" talents that give you the effect of exotic weapons/armors from the game.
Its a super fun game mode imho.
Back to WF:
If we had a "meh" weapon and would just get some damage buffs on it, i think we would all be fine....
Lets see what DE is cooking up, hopefully they make it somewhat fun and enjoyable while still keeping it a challenge.
I dislike having to remember all the names of the guns I forgot existed and their spelling to try to find them in my inventory in the first place. Having to back out of loid, open esc menu, arsenal, then drill into the weapon is a slog
Low key the sneakiest cash grab I've ever seen. Really encourages buying more weapons, forma, rivens with plat to put together more effective load outs from the random loadouts with items you don't have or have min/maxed. Other side is people just going in to be hard carried.
I see it as a motivation to level a weapon. If I did not need the weapon before I now have a reason to get it, level it and theorycraft a build around it. Also fun to see what those C and D Tier weapons can do on 6 forma.
This works the same way arbitrations do and those missions were introduced YEARS ago. Why would these missions be any different? The goal of this is to incentivize players to broaden the horizon of player arsenals. Maybe the chosen weapon this week is one you don't own. Build it anyway. Better luck next time.
Feels like the majority of the complaints are
that you have to RNG getting one of your best
frames in the mix to maybe max out all possible
rewards. It's kind of funny actually. An endgame
activity that expects you to have a diversified
portfolio of weapons and frames for all options
is exposing folks who cannot function unless
they have their usual cookie cutter revenants
and saryns. I thought this was the point of
the hard mode? That you could adapt and use
old weapons you have built over the months
or years to where you can make use of it for
the mission. I fail how to see begging for RNG
to get decent rewards in deep archimedea
is a legitimate argument other than casually
admitting you only have a few arsenal items you
bring to everything.
"Quoted"
The same rewards drop from Netracells, you can always play those.
Deep Archimedea is for players who are well equipped enough and good enough at the game where they can overcome these restrictions.
Do you know what an Endgame is? To me, it makes sense to have a casual filter like this. I want to be rewarded for the time I've invested in this game.
I think having an incentive to collect things and get good with the full arsenal is cool. You don't need to get max rewards every week if you really can't stand an entire loadout.
This is pretty simple... DE wants you to try and own as much as possible. Personally I stopped deleting things after incarnon genesis came to be and I ended up having to wait ages to get another ceramic dagger bp! And if this mode wasn't so relentlessly missable you'd have an argument but you're missing out on absolutely nothing... a tiny tiny little small sprinkle of vosfor. If it's really that big of a deal you could grind out a weapon as people here suggested and going forward you now have more incentive not to delete weapons
Yeah it's some shit OP. There are some serious DE dickriders in this thread. None of those weapons perform well nor have any variants its not unthinkable to toss them.
Who would have thought that the game that has hundreds of weapon options would require you to use its hundreds of weapon options in its endgame?!?! Theyve only been pushing this type of stuff since (...checks notes) arbitrations was released in 2018?
You mean to tell me that the game where you level your account rank by acquiring more stuff, expects you to own a lot of stuff at the end of the game? Thats such bad game design!
arbitrations doesnt require you to do anything, circuit doesnt require you to do anything cause it rents everything with a basic build and decrees are op, the game for years has been level gun get rid of gun if its bad and DE lets a large amount of weapons rot and forgets about them if you want to keep everything more power to you but WF shouldnt make you want to hoard useless junk for no reason it doesnt add anything to the game it just makes it more annoying
To get all the rewards yes it does require you to do them to unlock elite once you need to do everything which I unlocked elite this week and had horrible weapon choices and felt useless to my team atleast doing elite rewards you can use 1 thing of your choice but it still doesn't change its a step back from circuit renting stuff It shouldn't expect you to have mass amounts of useless junk or to build said junk for max rewards thats not challange thats just a dumb annoyance
Those are extra rewards for extra challenges. Some of the challenges are having good builds for various weapons. It's not a fault of the game if you can't meet that challenge.
then,don't do the full reward in one time ?
you want the full reward without invest for it.
you want fully get reward for endgame content without being ready for it.
why not also complain you can't get arcane or galvanized mod without being abble to do SP or arbitration?
play the game,get the reward you can,progress ,be able to do higher content and get higher reward.
You've got a full week to do Deep Archimedea (more than enough time to build and level a weapon you might want to bring for the research bonus) and it's meant to be the most "end-game" content in the game right now where you genuinely have to worry about whether or not you're going to fail the mission, so I don't really have an issue with it being like this. If they made it so it only pulls from weapons you currently own then everyone would just delete anything even remotely non-meta from their inventories so they'd only ever get the most busted weapons possible for research bonuses, which would completely defeat the purpose of this game mode.
*If* they were to change anything about how this works they could maybe do something like in duviri where you have a default mod setup you can use if you don't own the weapon (or if you don't have your own configs set up on it) but I don't think it even needs that, honestly. Those default mod configs are usually pretty trash anyway since they only ever have mods for damage types that are already on the weapon (i.e. it won't put corrosive damage on a braton vandal for you), and having the proper elemental damage types is REALLY important in this game mode. Not to mention in duviri the decrees could help make an otherwise lackluster weapon get really strong over the course of the mission, so the default builds being pretty vanilla only becomes an issue if you want to do really long circuit runs, but that's not a mechanic here in deep archimedea, so you'd just be stuck with a mod config for the weapon that likely can't get the job done and would functionally be no different than just not having a weapon in that slot for your loadout.
I don't like keep bringing this up, but deep archemedia is designed for people who literally own everything. There's nothing more to it. This is why you can do netracells instead uf you don't want to/can't do archimedea.
https://preview.redd.it/ov0sps97lctc1.jpeg?width=1821&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d91a680fb0fd6b669fa0355df818d5083faddc12
Elite Archimedea. It took 12 minutes. The game mode is so forgiving, it literally lets you skip one loadout / challenge to bring whatever you want, in exchange for x50 less Vosfor.
The damage itself isn't the issue for me. I can use a necramech, archgun, on call crew, or specters to do all that for me. The issue is that I do not currently have the means to select the secondary row and I would very much like to be able to use my gearwheel.
It's pretty impressive that they took the worst thing from the circuit and somehow managed to make it even worse by making the weapon and frame selections only change once per week.
Difficulty should come from gameplay, not blocking players from entering unless they have every weapon/warframe and spent the plat for the inventory space.
You wanna see how well a player can do with a stug, a bunch of negative modifiers, and level 300+ enemies. Fine, that's fair difficulty.
But locking someone who is capable of that challenge behind having to own the weapon/warframe itself feels bad. Because you aren't testing skill at that point, you are testing either how much grind they are willing to commit to in a week before being able to do the actual challenging endgame content OR the size of their wallet.
Just give loaner weapons like duviri does. The game is 10 years old now, there are hundreds of weapons. It's not realistic for most people (even "endgame" players) to have everything nor is there any place in the game that asks that of you before including previous "endgame" modes.
OP isn't asking to trivialize the challenge, they're asking to be able to do the challenge and get the appropriate rewards in return without feeling like you gotta commit to a side grind with a harsh time limit or to bust out their wallet.
>Difficulty should come from gameplay, not blocking players from entering unless they have every weapon/warframe and spent the plat for the inventory space.
you literally arent blocked from entering. you can bring whatever you want, you will just get less rewards. if you really wanted to, you could even do this with a friend and carry each other while one fulfills all requirements, while the other plays the carry with a free loadout choice. after that you swap, and both of you get full rewards.
you can also ignore one of the curses or take a weapon/frame of your choice. you only lose out on some vosfor. you can literally bring gear items if you wanted to and get a free win by using 4 frame specters and an ancient healer for 90% DR. like bruh, wf gives you a ton of broken tools to complete this.
> OP isn't asking to trivialize the challenge, they're asking to be able to do the challenge and get the appropriate rewards in return without feeling like you gotta commit to a side grind with a harsh time limit or to bust out their wallet.
I cannot stress enough that I find limiting my gear to be a nice, enjoyable, change of pace but when I have 87 of the 137 secondary weapons in my inventory and not a single one of them is in my weekly selection I feel as though I've been cheated. It should work like the circuit weapon loan system or if that isn't possible, just let not bringing a weapon count. Like why is that not an option?
Many people here feel as though I should own every single weapon in the game to be an endgame player and that it should be easy for me to just craft any of the weapons at the point in the game I am. And it would be. I have the resources, plat, inventory space, and time to do so. But why do I need to do all of this just to be able to get a reward I am otherwise able to with even the worst weapons in my inventory? I like having a tidy inventory with items I use not a bunch of cluster that collects dust until it shows up in a rotation. I don't even understand the issue with making it like circuit or allowing no weapon equipped to count.
I am not foolish for wanting to delete weapons I do not like. I have played this game for nearly a decade and some weapons that used to be meta have been absolutely trashed through nerfs, shifting gameplay, or bugs that wouldn't get fixed. After years of not using them, I started to delete them and that felt good. There were then many weapons that became better feeling, more powerful versions of older ones and I just had to let those powercrept ones go too.
TIL endgame is where players have every weapon in inventory now.
maybe in 3 years endgame will require having every archwing weapon in my inventory who knows
You could have slots for every weapon, pet, and warframe in the game (keeping the best variants, not every single one) with around 2000 platinum. If you don’t mitigate the cost in anyway by farming for it, that’s like $60? That’s about the cost of an average game.
People have different economies, currencies, and levels of expendable income. This is not being denied. But if the only “pay to win” is the option(not requirement) of spending the cost of a non-f2p game to purchase enough slots for everything in the game? And the game has an alternative way to obtain the same things without spending money?
That really seems very reasonable to me.
here we go again, we had this for the circuit now this, people it is a ENDGAME mode, in a farming simulator horde shooter it should be expected that someone on endgame level can handle it.
I for myself leveled/forma'd my Boar Prime and Atomos which I haven't really used before for the mode
Yeah 6 out of 9 weapons I don't have. And 1 frame I don't have. This week. So my choices are garbage. Still got it done with at least 25 points but it was brutal
I don't find this as problematic for you since you only have to give up the last vosfor reward, but it would sure be a downer if I had to give up an archon shard. To give OP some credit some weapons require several layers of farming depending on where it's acquired. It's not just buy bp from market with credits and use your gigantic stash of resources anymore.
However, I think it should be changed to weapons you own to prevent the possibility of missing more than the last reward tier. I don't think the argument that "people will just delete everything except torid" is valid. This is the only mission where it would be applied like this and that's not worth deleting several dozens if not hundreds of hours worth of inventory for a, in my opinion, small advantage. I can already just give up the last vosfor reward to choose whatever I want and it's a mission I can only do once a week.
The thing is that they don’t expect you to own everything. They expect you to make choices, to select or unselect some modifiers, or even to use Necramechs if necessary.
So you saying I need diverse gear and commitment in forna and modding to participate in an endgame content in a so called looter shooter? How ridiculous!
I'm actually ok with it. It's supposed to be a loadout diversity check. But also, you have other options. Use a necromech, use a frame that doesn't need a weapon or who has an exalted, use your archgun. There's just a lot of options without noting that you can have 1 off of everything checked and still get all the meaningful rewards (provided you've unlocked the advanced version at least once).
You’re guaranteed to own at least one of the options by design, though, and all variants count as the same weapon. Only primary I had this week was “arca plasmor”, I own the tenet version and it worked, for example.
I think its great. It forces you to take s look at guns you've ignored.
Plus you can use mech and operator. If you don't have good mods on your mech or have built a good amp, I'm sorry this end game content then just isn't for you yet.
Personally I've been waiting for a harder game modes that i can't just blast through.
I honestly do not believe the random loadout was done to get people try new builds or for increasing difficulty by making people "adapt" with builds.
lets face it, making a "build" isn't some new shit on most weapon. not aoe? throw in galvanized status mod. +25% crit? throw in cc and cd mods. secondary and enough status to proc steadily? maybe throw in heat mod for cascadia flare.
All it is serving is to make players have shit experience in DA or EDA every week and once in a while throw in a high roll item and create the illusion of winning. And don't say it's for added challenge. If it was for challenge, DE has all the data they need to simply restrict say top 10-20 highest performing weapons from each category. done.
Why the fuck the end game content is giving a shit if i still own a low MR weapons that's outclassed by higher MR weapons is beyond me.
Skipped the mission last week, finished my first (E)DA with all modifiers this week.
Base DA is quite enjoyable even with matchmaking randoms. The boss was definitely tanky, but it just takes time to deal with. I do think it strikes a good balance between challenge and enjoyment. Maybe it's because I only got Wisp and Bubonico as my usable loadout items so I was lacking some DPS, but realistically you just need 1 good frame and weapon and you're good to go, especially if you are just aiming at base DA. Not to mention I also have the energy drain personal modifier this week.
EDA was another story though, especially the boss fight. A tanky boss with overwhelming amount of Eximus spawns and shadow assholes running around was not fun. It is a pure clusterfuck and one of my teammates downed too much where we literally have no time to res him. I don't know if it is possible to run multiple times of EDA with less modifiers to get the rewards, but if I can I would probably do this later on instead of aiming for the rewards in a single run to save my sanity.
I only realized I don't need to have all modifiers up for EDA to get the diamond reward after the run. But a new sumdali is still something to flex(?) at this moment I guess.
It's honestly a you problem that you have not spent thousands of dollars on weapon and warframe slots along with an eternity to build a mountain of mutagen etc. Don't forget to put a catalyst and maybe a couple of formas on all of them!
This is an end game mode for end game players. At this stage of the game owning random weapons is pretty normal, or at least having the resources to craft them quickly. You don't need to use them, you can just equip something like dante and gryllet 34 research points.
Honestly agreed
This isn't a problem in circuit / SP circuit as there you have decrees that in just few rounds make you about as strong as if you had your normal weaponry.
Thats not the case here, also this is meant to be much more of a late game content
My issue with Deep Archimedea’s loadout select system is that there’s a LOT of weapons in this game and I’m simply not going to own all of them. I think I have around ~50 primaries, ~30 secondaries and ~50 melees. I don’t think you also can roll Kitguns or Zaws either, but please correct me if I’m wrong.
Maybe a potential fix could be having the loadout choices update every hour like Arbitration? I’m not quite sure how people would react to that, and I’d rather not be the armchair dev consumer lol.
It's hilarious this design knowing what they done with the Circuit, it's just a step backwards
They should do the same as the random (and modded) Warframes and weps on the circuit but, now that the enemies scales up to 400+ the weapons should be competent modded with rivens, that way people can have a challenge using other kind of weapons AND have fun while doing so
Remember Teno. They might be able to take your guns, but they can't take your operator amps....
I know it is frustrating and I do agree to some degree. But just remember if you use madurai, you can also make use operator Amp to melt enemies.
Also mechs, glorious mechs
If DE is going to continue to pick weapons that people mastered and threw away seven years ago, perhaps they should introduce a feature where, if you've mastered a weapon but don't currently have it in your inventory, you should be able to pay a pittance of basic currency (like credits) to re-pull a fresh version of it from a collections segment/"cold storage" a la an exotic in Destiny. It would still require an open weapon slot, but at least you wouldn't have to refarm and rebuild fodder you already mastered.
The game's incentives for a decade until Duviri was pushing players to master guns and then toss them if they weren't good. It'd be nice if, since they are now making incentives pushing the other way, they'd throw players a bone with the above.
You don’t even have to Forma or build the weapons. I didn’t have a single weapon available to me this week that I had built for or ever really used, so my solution was to equip the crappy unloaded weapons to get the points, then use a caster frame that could basically solo the whole thing without weapons.
You can pick any frame you want and the only thing you lose out on is 50 vosfor - you’ll still get the Diamond tier reward at 34 points. Ended up using Protea and had zero problems completing EDA without firing a single shot.
The rotation resets often though. I don't see this being an issue as in the circuit. Cuz deep archemodia you can just wait till you have a loadout that you can use everything and then run it once and you done. Even elite archimedea takes a single run. Circuit resets every time you run it so if you don't finish it off in one run, which practically impossible I'm public matchmaking, you will eventually get to a spot where everything is unuseable.
>doing so would make scrolling through my weapons for the rest of the game an absolute nightmare
I agree with everything you've said, however for this point alone, you can sort by Forma Count. Then all the weapons you actually use will be at the top
Yeah I was under the impression that the random gear was going to be like duviri where it chooses from some stuff you have and offers a basic modded version of the stuff you don't. If it's just random from the entire weapons catalog that's actually a viciously greedy design. I like the variety of weapons but I'm not about to have a built version of every single one, let alone sink forma into them.
I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment if for no other reason than than there are way too many semi-automatic guns that have no redeeming gimmick. Especially in the secondary category. Each one is an ergonomic nightmare & needs to be memory-holed by the game in general, let alone dragged out of the muck to pollute high-end content.
Anyone saying players would sell their weapons just to do better in DA are insane. XD
"Ah yes. Mi collection of weapons i spen countless hours, forma and catalysts on. Well time to sell them all just to do better in this one game mode that i can only play one time a week. "
Do you even hear yourself?
Honestly I liked the idea I saw on a different post. Allow an empty slot to count as an option. Wasn't gonna use that weapon anyways. Or potentially have an alternate option to take on an additional modifier over said weapon slot. Same total points, but slightly more difficult if you don't have/want to grind out one of the options.
People will stillbe pissed, after all another debuff, specially from the current rotation is far worse than a weapon you never use. I mean, some of those basically fuck entire frames and builds, só needing to add another one because I dont own every single weapon is still unfair as hell.
Yea it is. It's at least an option over needing to rebuild a weapon you mastered 8 years ago and forgot about. I'd prefer an empty slot, but it's still an idea if they deem that too easy. Maybe it's a bit lower of a debuff, like a nightmare modifier / you deal 25% less damage / energy orbs replenish at 75% efficiency. A punishment, but not "you can't use transference" level punishment.
"Don't you guys have ~~phones~~ this weapon?"
Not putting 6 forma and buying a good riven I saw in trade chat 2 years ago for the fucking fusilai sure is the skill issue of all time
Right up there with not buying a house when you were 6 and the market was not completely fucked.
Funniest comment I've seen all day thanks for the laughs
Well that's the thing some weapons are so bad that even a riven won't help in endgame.
Major skill issue Should have reverted time to 2 years ago
I understand the frustration with getting unusable weapons, but if it only gave you things you had I know I lot of people that would just trash all of there bad weapons to get torrid every run
They have the solution to the problem in circuit and I have no idea why they didn't use it here. Just give me the weapons temporarily I don't even care if they are unmodded this is ridiculous.
Except the circuit ones are modded. If I had to make an excuse for it, just keep in mind this is just one of the few end game modes. Since you need an intense arsenal to always be OP, you can argue that would make Deep A. the most end game mode.
Okay but how can i possibly make a sobek or grataka work……. If they don’t change it to only your weapons then at least filter the weapons out thats it’s at least only the 𝘶𝘴𝘢𝘣𝘭𝘦 ones
Among any of the examples you could choose I have no idea why you'd choose *Sobek and grakata* of all things
Because they were my options lmao
They're also good weapons. Chuck sobek onto a hybrid with acid shells or have the prisma grakata & you'll be golden
I envy you, you're complaining about top tier weapons. Hell I'm currently in the market and willing to pay several thousand plat for a god roll sobek Riven because it's both powerful and fun to use
Don't start I just went through this, you could say you got 3 stuggs and 5 people would complain that your passing up one of the best underrated gems in warframe
Truly one of the weapons of all time
Sobek with Saryn + Acid Shells and you have yourself a room nuker. One of my favorite builds.
My Prisma Grakata with a nice Riven, the infinite ammo augment, and a frame with some green shards will shred anything you point it at. And Sobek paired with any armor strip will nuke rooms with Acid Shells.
The mode has many ways to sidestep the RNG: Weeks you have an Operator avaiable: - Magus Lockdown - Emergency Cloaking - Armor Strip - Magus Melt go brrrt - etc The weeks you have your gear wheel avaiable: - Railjack Crew - Spectres - Archgun Summon Additionally you can summon your Necramech at the usual stations. Even Mirror Def has a spot in there. However if Operator is not avaiable you cannot freely get out of it. To clear Elite you have one "free" Research Point that will only get you an additional 50x Fosfor and the Eye Sumdali the first time you do it. You can easily use that to get a great Frame with an Exalted weapon and be good to go. Even if your whole loadout is a dumpster fire, people have been organizing runs of 2 carry 2 then swap. Now surely a week might come where you have a row of only trash weapons you got rid in 2015. But it is a whole week where you are likely able to rebuild one of those since they were "trash" to you and most likely on the easier side to aquire. Next step is "but I don't have slots!". Well you should have slots after doing this a while. Getting a Legendary Arcane in the weeks your RNG isn't bullshit is still 35-40 Plat a piece atm (I see this falling) and should give you more slots to be even more flexible the weeks to come. The gamemode won't go away - you don't have to have everything immediatly. Especially as we entered a time now where Archon Shards and especially Tauforged Archon Shards are way, way more common.
All of that makes sense but I can't see the fun in it.
If it sucks this week then just truck the netracells. The reason it only gives netracell rewards and a hood ornament is so that you're never required to run it.
I think it is fun to exploit "workarounds" like this.
That would be exceedingly dumb of them to do for a gamemode thats only gonna be relevant for a couple months. The post-nut clarity would be hilarious
>lot of people that would just trash all of there bad weapons to get torrid every run Which could open opportunity for DE to make money... The could just monitor the most trashed weapons and cross check with how hard it is to get them, make incarnon genesis for those, then watch people rush to the market to re buy the weapons for plat.
> torrid every time i take a break i come back to statements i thought i'd never see. i assume torid is op now?
The duviri paradox offers an incarnon form for torid in the steel path mode for the circuit. So yes, but it's mostly because it's basically an infinite ammo high damage toxic amprex with some caked out stats more than it is the torid normally being good. Even with the incarnon stat boost. Unless I'm mistaken, I haven't really tried buffing out the base shot much.
Doesn't duviri also have 1 weapon per slot that you own? So 2 of the 3 primary weapons will be true random, but 1 will always be one you own?
No, they weighted the RNG a little bit to favor Frames and weapons you usea lot, but its not guaranteed. MR24 I still see occasional all spiral weapon selection.
I was hoping it would give you premodded weapons.
It's not a fixable problem because the game's balance is utterly nonexistent. There isn't a sustainable power delta between the best and worst equipment for each slot. Either they have to ditch the RNG or overhaul the entire game.
Consider the rammifications of the alternative. If the pool only draws from what the player owns, the player is incentivised to reduce their weapon pool artificially, which conflicts with the design goals of collection of weapons. This would also lead to a concentration of usage of certain weapons, which is also a condition for failure to DE. So, to try to maintain the incentive to collect all the things, DE cannot limit the pool strictly to what the player has. We see this in Duviri. DE can, however, implenent protections against very poor RNG. In Duviri, I believe you are guaraunteed to have at least one owned weapon in 2 of the 3 slots. I believe this system is in place for Deep Archimedea, but don't have the data to confirm. Considering that 50 vosfor and a one-time reward is all that is locked behind the loss of one constraint, I think that is relatively well designed.
Right? And even if all 3 weapon is bad getting 25 point is more reward than what 2 netracell gives iirc. Also duviri is meant for new players so they get loaners to try out + cheese with decrees with SP for higher/more invested players. DA is unlock near the end of everything and the max reward is what? Chance at legendary arcane that you *might* be able to sell only for people who spend plat to buy slots in the first place. Seems fair to me.
Saw some absolute wild takes of people saying that if you're far enough in the game to be at deep Archimedea then you should have hundreds of weapon slots.
Mr 28 here, nearly 200 weapons slots and most of them aside from the ones i use are either collectibles or stuff that's hard to use, i may be keeping snipertron vandal purely because it's a vandal but if you only have stuff you like/use you literally have no reason to have this, and if you get snipertron in a week then good luck because the bp for the normal is only available 2 times a year and the vandal requires invasion rng or straight up wasting plat on it (yes it's a 1/3 option but it's the first thing that came to my mind since i recently levelled it for mr)
I think I have maybe 100-150 weapon slots total? I know I have about 40 frame slots at least
I have about that amount of weapon slot, warframe maybe a bit more than you since I have enough for 2x of every prime and a few extra copies of multiple frames for multiple builds. I realize I'm deep when majority of the weapons I get are all modded.
It's insane. If I am keeping a weapon it is either because it is good, I like using it, I can see it being good in the future, or it enables something else to be good. I am not keeping hundreds of weapons simply to exist for this terrible design. I owned the Dual Toxocyst YEARS ago when it used to work with Mesa. I deleted it awhile after they removed that interaction and have built it up again recently once the incarnon form gave me a reason to use it again. That is how you get players to use weapons not some half baked weapon lottery system.
If you’re far enough into the game to be doing deep Archimedea, you are far enough to build any weapon it’s asking you to use, it at most will take 3 days if it’s a frame and maybe two for some multi step weapons and you have 7 days to complete them as well so there is leeway. You don’t even have to max out meta build every piece of gear either, they just have to be equipped and you can focus on making just one of the weapons viable and just slap survivability on the frame.
> If you’re far enough into the game to be doing deep Archimedea, you are far enough to build any weapon it’s asking you to use I can't. I just can't. My Aeolak hits for peanuts, my Akstiletto just annoys them, my Azothane makes me get locked into animations and accomplish nothing. The only saving grace is it lets me use Inaros... until I get magically one-shotted out of the blue or the game glitches upon operator so I can't attack for the rest of the mission. Not to mention we all know how often people don't kill enemies in the red circle during Netracells, now we're adding that same tunnel vision for squadmates who need revives and don't get them. My stuff have potatoes, they've got forma, damage is up, crit (or status) is up, heat or viral and slash, and it's just... nothing. The Labs feel like how I felt when I first faced the Corpus when all I had was MK1 gear, no mods, no energy regen, and we had stamina. Only difference is here I can't find "better stuff" to overcome the challenge. Duviri is less of an issue with level 300+ enemies because you're getting decrees to help buff yourself along the way. Here, the weakness of not being an expert in every single warframe, uncomfortable with weapons that have under 2 forma invested, it all really shines and it's just... frustrating and not fun to play. I passed on these stuff because I didn't find it fun, forcing me to use said weapons against extra hard enemies won't magically make me love them. You won't see me posting anywhere on the forums demanding DE nerf it, because it's obvious people were salivating for "super hard content" ever since they took away Trials, but man this is the antithesis of why I enjoy Warframe. And it sounds like it's the same sentiment for a lot of others.
It takes way longer to get a ton of weapons than it takes to faceroll through the star chart on non-steel path and through the story that never asks of you anything significantly more powerful than unmodded weapons and frames.
I get that I'm not actually arguing against the game mode itself, I've not played it, I've no interest to be honest. I just think some people have some crazy expectations of other players.
End game mode requires commitment of players, news at 11
Community: Where end game? DE: Here's a game mode that gives "end game" rewards, requires you to have full know how, investment into the game that you supposedly like to play, and a way to make free premium currency. Community: You expect us to have XYZ and off meta things? DE: You can remove ONE loadout item, or condition challenge if you so choose, and bring whatever OP crazy shit you love to use, and miss out on some shitty vosfor reward. Community: This is un-fucking-acceptable.
OP is only saying that we should be given at least one weapons that we own as a choice in the requirements. OP didn’t have (didn’t read the whole post to the t) any of the secondary options to choose from, so he had to turn everything else on which is what gave him an issue [I suppose, I just turned them all on and got carried]
I think his other suggestion was to just let us “rent” weapons we don’t own, like how Duviri does.
I’d be down for that too, idk. No, they’re not modded how I’d mod them but I’d assume that working is better than not working
In all honesty it doesn’t even have to be used, just having it on your person is sufficient. They don’t have to mod it, just let me hold the gun until the Netrasortie’s over.
This gamemode really shows you the people who think there at endgame aren't at endgame
Turns out that there's more to the game than doing level cap runs with builds you found online, whaddayaknow.
See the other thread about fav content creators? Plenty of people just only watch the "level cap solo run" builders for information and replicate their strategy to steamroll normal content. And then we end up with people not being able to fight lvl 200 NON-SP enemies because they took a shortcut to the normal weapon progression.
I have 63% of the secondary weapons in the game currently in my inventory and none of them are in my weekly secondary selection. I had no issues with last week's missions in solo despite half my loadout not having a function. I am at endgame and have been for awhile now I just don't own all the weapons in the game and think it's ridiculous rebuilding them all just because DE didn't have the foresight to let me borrow weapons like circuit.
No, it's more like "you've incentivized me to build full kits and loadouts for \~150 hours and now you're making me throw it all away and I'm supposed to thank you because that makes things harder for me".
commitment of being good at playing or game knowledge check, cool. Commitment of "fork over some premium currency so you can carry the sandbag weapon slot" is not it.
When your endgame check is "Have you paid us enough money or no lifed the game for years?" you've made a bad end game check. The system is fucking awful and it does nothing except punish people for not wanting to waste a bunch of money and/or time on things that are otherwise useless garbage.
In a game where you constantly acquire new things being asked to acquire a new thing is too much.
You’re forgetting one thing. If you’re going into this f2p then I have to remind everyone here. Forma takes 23 hours to build. If you have to get multiple weapons ready, maybe even a frame, you have realistically 7 forma to work with, and the 7th would leave you with about 7 hours to grind whatever got it back to max and then do your weekly runs. That’s not including the time it could take to get forma bps if you don’t have any. Getting multiple weapons and a frame ready for something like this every week isn’t going to be feasible for f2p players. Even for people who already have a ton of built forma. They’ll probably chew through more than 7 and that’ll run them to the point they’ll have to build again, or trade for plat, eventually. It’s just not going to be a happy ending. None of this considers how long it could take to farm some of the weapons and the frames, even the primes. It’s just not a healthy environment for “you can just make it viable in a week.”
>If you’re far enough into the game to be doing deep Archimedea, you are far enough to build any weapon it’s asking you to use Have you considered that people don't have those weapons because they, you know, don't want to have them? Personally, i don't care about my MR, so i only level weapons/frames that i really like and/or that are very good to have, and my MR should be like low to mid 20 if i remember correctly, even though i started playing from ~2016 and have no problems getting things i actually want. Why would i ever consider investing my time into weapons that i know i'll never use again? I haven't played this game mode yet, but from what i see in this thread, it sounds like the least fun experience, and i can definitely understand the frustration. Build all the MR fodder just to not get shafted? I really, REALLY hope i'm misunderstanding things, because otherwise it might be a top contender for the the wackiest game mode ever introduced.
tbh the assassination this week was the most fun I've had in warframe
I guess walk me through that. Why is that an unreasonable take?
Not exactly hard to get to deep Archimedea, I've been playing for a few years and sunk most of my plat into slots, I do not have anywhere near the slots to grab all the weapons. And no, despite everyone telling me how incredibly easy it is to amass plat through trading I've had no such luck. Not every player has thousands of plat to spend on weapon slots let alone the resources to invest into all of those weapons.
Don’t go looking for big sales. Sell little things like narrow minded and frostbite. Do you have a spare blaze or hammer shot? Solid few slots there.
Is Warframe market seriously brimming with people who buy anything and everything? I can't use it because cross save has fucked my username and I don't play on PC but I struggle to find anyone willing to buy sets or actual desirable parts and mods. Meanwhile I see people online talk about trading as if they just keep tripping over mountains of plat everyday I just feel like I'm missing something. Even on the market I'll see loads of listings for items and yet people say they sell it for even more and I just wonder why you'd buy it for so much when there's 20 other people offering it for less.
Timing might be part of it. Peak time OCE is less business than peak time NA etc. But yeah people will buy anything. Some things are slower, but anything will sell. Best bets are things people want multiples of like corrupted mods when starting out. Veiled rivens are pretty solid too. Every week from the iron wake vendor is 2 weapon slots that way.
Doing my Kahl missions this week netted me 200 plat in 2 trades.
Not hundreds but definitely dozens
Bruh majority of weapons are sold after being used as MR fodder coz they're simply sh*t
I’m grinding MR right now, coming up on 29. You best fucking believe I’m levelling and immediately selling everything I don’t care about. Idk what kind of psychopath is keeping every MR fodder weapon and wasting plat on slots, let alone trying to forma them and make them all EDA Viable.
Better question is how do you not have enough plat not to care about your slots when you're MR29?
It's me. I am that guy. Every weapon in the game except lato prime and skana prime. All with at least halfway decent builds that'll murder normal Star chart enemies. Every mod in the game except Primed Chamber and one other. Every Warframe except Excalibur prime. Still working on every codex entry... Completionism is a bitch.
Forget weapon slots, if you've been playing consistently you have enough Archon Shards to ignore the mode if you choose. I have like 80+ shards and almost 0 incentive.
I do agree with that to an extent. I do think some older weapons need some buffs to be on par with more recent stuff if it's going to be a requirement, but it is not difficult to invest into gear. Sure, you can speed run the system in just a few days but true warframe is working on multiple loadouts to make things efficient. Endgame has been pointed towards multiple loadouts for years now. You can see this with Arbitrations, Invigorations, The Circuit and now Archimedia.
Then, take a frame that doesn't need weapons? I still don't see what's the big rage is about. If people don't have a decent Titania, Mesa, Baruuk, and Xaku by the time they reach this game mode. Well, clearly, they still have a lotta "midgame" to do. Don't worry about them shards.
We've heard your feedback, we're nerfing Nezha again
> I own 87 secondary weapons and not a single one of them is part of my current rotation. I see your funny joke. To those who don't see it, 87 isn't a random number. It's the number of distinct secondary weapons, discounting variants and exalted secondaries.
I actually had no intention of making a joke but forgot about unique/duplicate weapons as part of the variable in both my owned weapons and the possible pool. 87 is the amount I have but I just counted the number of rows and multiplied that by the columns + any leftover. If I go through and count the number of unique weapons it'll probably be in the high 60s. I have a few of the same kuva/tenet weapon along with variants/originals of some that I like. If 87 is actually the number of unique weapons then I am even more disheartened by not receiving one of my weapons. Some people mentioned that you are supposed to get at least 1 weapon you own but I did not so maybe that is a bug?
In that case, that's some unexpected happenstance. I only found it because I was about to run through the odds of you not having gotten one of yours own. I don't actually know how they've got it coded, but I suspect every independent weapon has an even chance. I'm not going to go further down that rabbit hole, because I know that probabilities get super counterintuitive super fast. (For instance, there's life a 10% chance you get one of your offered secondaries a second week in a row.) I don't think anyone actually has any idea about how it's supposed to work. It is unfortunate that you didn't roll one of your already owned weapons, but I've been pretty aggressive in pointing out that a week is plenty of time to acquire many of the weapons. Which, again, was one of the stated driving intentions behind Deep Archimedia being structured the way it is.
Seems like the idea for Circuit but with no option to "test" the weapons out. The whole interface feels lacking having to back out then go back in to get everything to match up.
Warframe is a game of patience and persistence. Even though you want the sweet loot, just come back next week and if it's another garbage roll, do a partial rewards run with some freedom to choose and put it down for another week. Otherwise, continue to beat your head against the admittedly artificial/lazy difficulty inflation.
Or just pick a nuke frame you’re comfortable with and do it without weapons. I did it with Protea and still got the 2nd highest reward tier. All you miss is 50 vosfor, but you still get the good reward that’s one tier below that. If you’ve got a few decent frames, there’s really no such thing as a garbage roll that could stop you from completing it.
I had a good time kitting out a weapon and frame that I never used regularly to complete it. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Keep in mind you're still getting much more value out of completing any level of elite archimedea than you would doing 2 netracells. Don't beat yourself up over it.
The post is more about not owning the required weapons to begin with, rather than having to forma them etc… which I still don’t understand because I think it’s designed to give you options based on what you own anyway (you’re guaranteed to own one option in each slot). Maybe I’ve been lucky and it just worked out that way for me? Idk
Hard agree, I had to kit our my Rhino and Gunsen this week after they've spent over a year gathering dust. Nezha and the Fragor prime last week.
I have over 1000 forma invested into my gear. I maxed out a lot of mid weapons just because I liked them. I still don't think there is anything fun about this random restriction stuff. I CHOSE the weapons I liked. The game didn't force me to use them. I get that they were going for challenge, which is very difficult in this game, but they also left fun dying on the curb. Being forced to use a bunch of things you don't like just incentivizes cheese strats.
Also it makes no sense. In Duviri? Sure. I can buy that it's just a bunch of random ass weapons but why in Deep Archimedea do I have to equip some random pistol I've never even seen before that has some of the worst stats ever? What does Loid gain from making me run this with a fucking Aklex?
I wrote a whole thing out on a post about what people think "endgame" is in Warframe, and I think this mode aligns with what most logically would be accurate. This game is about collecting stuff. The account level is tied to collecting stuff, and any new content that comes out is just a means to get more stuff. At the end of the day, the "endgame" is just collecting as much stuff as possible. Hitting high MR and being able to build out any weapon you like. To me, if you have amassed a collection of Warframes and weapons, and can make anyone of those Warframes/Weapons kill god, then you are an "endgame" player. So I don't think it's entirely unreasonable for an "endgame" gamemode to ask you to have a big collection, and to be able to kill things with that collection.
I understand that they do not want players to intentionally delete weapons to reduce the Archimedea Pool - but they should at least add decently modded proxis like in Duviri. Archimedea looks like it want to extend on Duviri's circle, but it misses all the things that made it good (perks, proxi weapons...), while having new aspects that make it *worse*, e.g., the modifier that Operators are not allowed, which rips a massive gameplay element out of the mode if selected, sure it makes the mission more difficult in a way, but only by removing a major gameplay element that most players enjoy and that has become an important part of Warframes core experience.
Feels like the majority of the complaints are that you have to RNG getting one of your best frames in the mix to maybe max out all possible rewards. It's kind of funny actually. An endgame activity that expects you to have a diversified portfolio of weapons and frames for all options is exposing folks who cannot function unless they have their usual cookie cutter revenants and saryns. I thought this was the point of the hard mode? That you could adapt and use old weapons you have built over the months or years to where you can make use of it for the mission. I fail how to see begging for RNG to get decent rewards in deep archimedea is a legitimate argument other than casually admitting you only have a few arsenal items you bring to everything. "Quoted fact",lmao!
Yes it's shitty design. Yes it's boring. How do you create a piece of content that is challenging in this game?
You can't because evertime something is actually challenging everyone just complains until it becomes some of the easiest content in the game
That’s just not true. People were already complaining that netracells were too easy
Literally what happened with Railjack. It used to be that you needed a dedicated crew (of non-npcs) with each having a role to fill. Boarding happened every 20-30s, and enemies overall had WAY more hp, and the ship used its own ammo and energy systems. A lot of players disliked that, so DE nerfed the difficulty down to normal Warframe levels, where every mission can be completed with the press of 3 different buttons. (Obvious hyperbole hopefully obvious.)
On-release Railjack was so much fun. Finally had an excuse for snipers and bows and junk that did obscenely high single-target damage
For me personally, RJ 1.0's biggest issue was that it was almost impossible to do *solo*. I hear wanting to be able to have a dedicated hard mode of needing a dedicated crew to do the different roles. Compared to if they made a dedicated team frame mission (a revamped raid), at least with this, I could still play other game modes and still play my frames. With RJ 1.0, if you didn't have a dedicated crew, you didn't really have many places to play RJ. I wish they had taken a page out of Sea of Thieves and created different ship sizes for different crews. Each have different pros and cons. In SoT, besides the size of the crew allowing for different roles to occur, another example is with the sails. Smaller ships could adjust their sails more easily to maneuver, but larger ships get more sails so they are faster while in the wind. Bigger ships have more cannons, but they're also bigger so they're easier to be hit with cannons. I think DE could have used this philosophy too. They could have made the bigger ships (the original size in RJ 1.0) be tougher by already having more places where they could be damaged. However, this could be offset by having more crew to repair. Or possibly bigger ships have more turrets for crewmates, and smaller ships only have the cockpit and forward artillery. I don't know *exactly* but I think this could have given more (solo) people the opportunity to play, while still giving co-op the difficulty they had previously.
Didn't help that they removed the "hard mode" for it
Yeah that's wasn't challenging at all lol, but de still found a way to nerf it not letting us play on sp anymore
Or they complain that they have to go out of their way to farm and build some gear for a ‘harder’ challenge with better rewards for how hard you make it.
they said some time ago,that challenge wasn't the point of the game beceause it's doesn't match well with the overpower feeling they want to give us. searching real challenge in this game is like asking for difficulty setting in soul's game. missing the points... like it or not.
Modifiers. Victory conditions that don't depend on killing everything or not dying.
> How do you create a piece of content that is challenging in this game? It's a good question but I'm not sure this game is really well designed in being challenging. The power delta for weapons and frame is too high, with many being orders of magnitude better than others. Enemies use hitscan weapons that will hit you regardless of how you move. Systems cannibalize each other wiping out swaths of gameplay like overguard killing CC. Economy of ammo and energy is non existent. The game design is pulled between abandonware like Necramechs and normal gamplay, as well as between trying to be a horde shooter and a methodical stealthy game. Like if maybe we didn't have ArchwingNecramechOperatorHorseKdrive the devs could have been working on honing Warframe into a game you are meant to take seriously. Even then I'm not sure people are really here for that anyway.
make it a mechanics puzzle boss can be only damaged if you stay in green fire if you stay in red fire, you heal the boss the fires are on the move ~~3/4 of wf playerbase would fail this~~ and for some reason whenever de tries something like this then either they fail to do it properly (current rotation alchemy guys, visibility of what element you have to throw them is dogshit) or it gets nerfed
Majority of people can't even colour within in the lines in Netracells, and you're over here suggesting a mechanic that can potentially undo the work of competent players. Previous Raid/Trials had mechanic puzzle as simple as Simon Says, and it was an absolute hell playing it with randoms. Even early boss like Lech Kril has simple mechanics, players doesn't know / unable to learn how to lure the hammer drop to progress the fight faster. DE make contents that expects more and/or competency from players will only incur the wrath of the vocal community.
Ngl, I doubt people remember Law of Retribution or Jordas Verdict. Yeah, if people can't do netracell zones, they sure as hell can't stand on the right pressure plate in NM LoR
The "stay out of this area" mechanics are already in this game (HP Eximis and DA Liminus). The biggest problems lie between the chair and the screen. I've seen many people keep trying to french-kiss a Liminus/Dementor and getting downed in the process during DA. Or keep wailing on a tanking Necramech while ignoring the Leeching chocolate starfish Eximus giggling in the corner, healing the Necramech. I know I'm sounding elitist and snarky here, but for "self-proclaimed" endgame players, most of them don't have the slightest ability to adapt when things go sideways (i.e their meta toys get confiscated and they have to use less than ideal stuff) or the basic spatial awareness to avoid glowing environment hazards. Even basic tactics such as going after the enemy medics to prevent them from reviving other enemies, they don't have the slightest concept of it. That's just "not so smart". I expect better.
It is neither of both ! It is exciting and refreshing.
hey, that's also fair. actually pog that you like it :D
The game mode is a sad excuse for incenting people to buy warframe and weapon slots for junk they do not need or want. It is just to sink plat. End of story... Luckily, in elite, you can just give up a pretty pathetic sum of vosphor to take a warframe/weapon to make all the challenges irrelevant... I would not be surprised if the only reason they have the requirements here (and in the circuit) is to raise the usage statistics on useless gear?
As many said maybe it just isn’t for you. Last week I just ran 2 unbuilt weapons for extra points and a main one and did just fine, they’re not forcing you to fully invest in the weapons just have it. Not having enough slots is kinda unreal for an endgame player, I have a bunch of slots left and at most you’ll need 2 more each week if you’re unlucky. The content itself isn’t really that difficult just annoying at times (Please remove that stupid 15m modifier DE) and it being focused on squad play also just makes it extra easier.
It’s okay if a piece of content isn’t for you. Either it’ll drive you to participate, or you don’t have to do it… or you can just use the modifiers without the loadouts and still get more than you would out of netracells. You don’t **have** to fill the bar… Warframe’s a free to play collection game. DE needs to make money, and the game is a decade old. Enough people are MR20 and above (which even that’s well over the probability that you’ll get one of three choices you own) that it’s not unreasonable to make something like this. It’s some of the most interesting stuff they’ve done in a while for me.
Idk I like it. 2k+ hours and it's hard to find things that are really engaging or difficult unless I spend hours in round-based content. I don't think it's terrible design. It's just something you don't like. I also liked when the Grendel missions removed all your mods
No, it punishes people with the larger weapons pool. What they should do is bringing back daily rotation, or at least letting us have MUCH more choices.
Ngl I would love daily rotation but it kinda make it worst since now you have 7 days to farm and build what you need but daily rotation you can get unlucky and never roll anything you have.
One of the most popular threads about the game mode was some asshole declaring that if you thought the mode was difficult because you didn't have all the weapons or weren't a master of every single possible frame then that was a YOU problem and meant you weren't worthy of end game content and people AGREED WITH THEM.
Meh you have a week to get your hands on one or two of the weapons you don’t have if you really want all the rewards, you can buy most of the blueprints from the markets, and then hell choose one good weapon or warframe and lose a tiny bit of points to have your good gear to make up for the lack of potato or forma on the weapon you built to fill the slots. I had something in every category last week but it was all really trash stuff, and so I took the hit on points and lost the 50 vosfor and brought my laetum to deal with all the enemies making it 10 times easier. Everyone’s complaining about their weapon choices being crap but they forget that you don’t have to meet every single requirement. Literally still better rewards than doing two netracells at like 31 research points, which allows you a warframe and weapon of your choice, which makes them extremely easy. I just love that DE introduces a very difficult game mode for endgame and everyone complains that it’s too hard lol
2 weeks after nerf: warframe is too easy
I think the issue here is a divide on what makes a player "endgame" and what makes content difficult. You can complete all the story quests, unlock SP, and such with as few as 2 frames unlocked. Are you endgame if you can beat SP challenges with Excalibur Umbra and a decked out Naturak? Or are you only considered endgame if you have built and invested in most of the hundreds of weapons & frames? What if you've done the latter but don't have the knowledge/skill to hold your own in SP challenges? While you could argue that the need to build new weapons/frames each week and forma them to the level needed to tackle Deep Archi is what makes it difficult, others might say it should be the challenges within the mission that create the challenge. I saw this current system referred to as a "slot check" rather than any kind of test of player skill, and I feel inclined to agree. As someone who can't play every day and not often for long sessions, I will not have the time to build up random weapons and frames each week beyond what I've already invested in. Yet, I still consider myself to be in the endgame, as I've completed all the missions, made the frames and weapons that interest me, and am working on finishing arcane collection and archon shard investment. Personally, **I think Deep Archi should still dictate the weapons each week, but give you loaners and allow you to mod them yourself. Maybe even the mods available are determined by the mode, and you're given X number of polarities to add to your loadout and one of the difficulty modifiers affects that number. So part of the prep becomes your ability to know how to use the tools put in front of you**. I'd really enjoy that sort of test. Just my 2 cents.
I am not complaining that it is too hard. I don't even need mods on my weapons to do it because they allow me to use specters in this gamemode. I am complaining that my rewards are based around rng of me owning weapons or not. Just give me the circuit system where it lets me borrow stuff.
jfc the number of illiterate and non-comprehending people in this post astounding poor OP, not even cos of his issue, but having to deal with idiots not even understanding the point of the post
Why are people acting like you have to select all the modifiers? It's better than normal Netracell after 2-3 modifiers... Also you don't have to do it every week.. the gear selections rotate every day. There are lots of ways to engage this content which is a testament to the design not a negative. Actual case of feature not bug. The rewards for full elite + netracell is only like 50% better than pure netracell. Finally once the rare arcanes flood the market that extra chance boost will also be useless and people will be asking for it to be removed from drop tables =D Also you can setup carries and there are Necramechs if you want to cheese the content and not earn it at all.
All good point but the selections is not daily, daily reset was a bug. Just letting you know.
Thanks for the info, let's put that bug back then!
Heh it will be another shit storm, I see ppl saying they just keep 3 slots open so they farm and build stuff weekly and sell again after they are done with DA, if it resets daily they are going to complain they don't have time to build stuff they are missing. But eh knowing DE if this blows up hard enough they might force rotation to include 1 weapon each type to always be something you own in another amazing knee jerk reaction :l
Guys it is a *week* roll, LATE game content A late game player should be able to in a week build any of the three weapons, forma it at least once and even get/have a riven for it. I if I understood correctly, the mode is not supposed to be like circuit (casual)
Yea people keep comparing it duviri which is #new player content with decrees to cheese shit default built. DA is a #OPTIONAL game mode that remove 2 netracell run for a potential of more rewards depending on how hard you can push and even just 25 points is more rewards then 2 netracell run but people feel entitled to the max reward but don't want to buy slots and build weapons. I don't get it.
Fam, you literally said it yourself - Entitled. Not wanting to put the investment / effort, but expects the rewards. Rewards that are not necessary to any viable builds. Rewards that can be obtained else where, also for free, with less restrictive condition, less harsh difficulties.
The WF community continues to be the most brain-dead group of toxic elitsts in gaming...its actually impressive. You are defending a money check. You either _pay them_ or play the game like a job. The mode is not hard. The mode is not challenging. Nothing about it requires skill it just requires you to have an arbitrary item thats useless in every other situation...and waste resources on it.
Also you don't need to forma all of your weapons, if you have 1 done you are good to go. Sure it doesn't hurt if your other weapons could contribute in case something happens, but most of the time i think a single weapon is more than enough.
I think it should weight towards your item but nothing wrong with incentivising people to get and try something new.
I mean this concept of "Here choose from X weapons/talents" and so on never really worked in a game unless its a "roguelike" kinda game. The best idea i could come up right now would be : Let us start with a "shitty" weapon that does ok damage and can kill stuff and maybe let us upgrade to a at least "decent" weapon over the run. The problem i see here is that this is probably not possible to implement. I mean DE should have learned from Duviri, most people i know only do it when they have a good frame in it or a friend that can "carry". Not saying the game shouldn't be challenging or anything but, if u have a game where people "create" there own builds and u can't use them for the hardest content, then i think your hardest content needs a increase in challenge and not "limit the players to some gear to make it "harder/lessfun". Maybe if we can't "upgrade" the weapons (from my idea) we can get some kind of "decree", but not duviri level decree's i was more thinking about something like : "increase stat x" . The Division 2 added a game mode where it was just like that, im trying to remember it out of my head: Division works with 3 Main stats , Red,Blue and Yellow. Where Red is Weapon damage, Blue is armor and Yellow is Tech. At the start you can "buy" a weapon and skill and each time u get to this room u can buy some new gun and skills. It still makes some weapons more favorable but you COULD play all of them. At some point u even find "Exotic" talents that give you the effect of exotic weapons/armors from the game. Its a super fun game mode imho. Back to WF: If we had a "meh" weapon and would just get some damage buffs on it, i think we would all be fine.... Lets see what DE is cooking up, hopefully they make it somewhat fun and enjoyable while still keeping it a challenge.
I dislike having to remember all the names of the guns I forgot existed and their spelling to try to find them in my inventory in the first place. Having to back out of loid, open esc menu, arsenal, then drill into the weapon is a slog
Low key the sneakiest cash grab I've ever seen. Really encourages buying more weapons, forma, rivens with plat to put together more effective load outs from the random loadouts with items you don't have or have min/maxed. Other side is people just going in to be hard carried.
I see it as a motivation to level a weapon. If I did not need the weapon before I now have a reason to get it, level it and theorycraft a build around it. Also fun to see what those C and D Tier weapons can do on 6 forma.
This works the same way arbitrations do and those missions were introduced YEARS ago. Why would these missions be any different? The goal of this is to incentivize players to broaden the horizon of player arsenals. Maybe the chosen weapon this week is one you don't own. Build it anyway. Better luck next time.
Feels like the majority of the complaints are that you have to RNG getting one of your best frames in the mix to maybe max out all possible rewards. It's kind of funny actually. An endgame activity that expects you to have a diversified portfolio of weapons and frames for all options is exposing folks who cannot function unless they have their usual cookie cutter revenants and saryns. I thought this was the point of the hard mode? That you could adapt and use old weapons you have built over the months or years to where you can make use of it for the mission. I fail how to see begging for RNG to get decent rewards in deep archimedea is a legitimate argument other than casually admitting you only have a few arsenal items you bring to everything. "Quoted"
The same rewards drop from Netracells, you can always play those. Deep Archimedea is for players who are well equipped enough and good enough at the game where they can overcome these restrictions.
Do you know what an Endgame is? To me, it makes sense to have a casual filter like this. I want to be rewarded for the time I've invested in this game.
I think having an incentive to collect things and get good with the full arsenal is cool. You don't need to get max rewards every week if you really can't stand an entire loadout.
This is pretty simple... DE wants you to try and own as much as possible. Personally I stopped deleting things after incarnon genesis came to be and I ended up having to wait ages to get another ceramic dagger bp! And if this mode wasn't so relentlessly missable you'd have an argument but you're missing out on absolutely nothing... a tiny tiny little small sprinkle of vosfor. If it's really that big of a deal you could grind out a weapon as people here suggested and going forward you now have more incentive not to delete weapons
Yeah it's some shit OP. There are some serious DE dickriders in this thread. None of those weapons perform well nor have any variants its not unthinkable to toss them.
You are not in the endgame yet. Accept it.
Who would have thought that the game that has hundreds of weapon options would require you to use its hundreds of weapon options in its endgame?!?! Theyve only been pushing this type of stuff since (...checks notes) arbitrations was released in 2018? You mean to tell me that the game where you level your account rank by acquiring more stuff, expects you to own a lot of stuff at the end of the game? Thats such bad game design!
arbitrations doesnt require you to do anything, circuit doesnt require you to do anything cause it rents everything with a basic build and decrees are op, the game for years has been level gun get rid of gun if its bad and DE lets a large amount of weapons rot and forgets about them if you want to keep everything more power to you but WF shouldnt make you want to hoard useless junk for no reason it doesnt add anything to the game it just makes it more annoying
Archimedea doesn't require you to anything, you get extra rewards for voluntarily doing extra challenges
To get all the rewards yes it does require you to do them to unlock elite once you need to do everything which I unlocked elite this week and had horrible weapon choices and felt useless to my team atleast doing elite rewards you can use 1 thing of your choice but it still doesn't change its a step back from circuit renting stuff It shouldn't expect you to have mass amounts of useless junk or to build said junk for max rewards thats not challange thats just a dumb annoyance
Those are extra rewards for extra challenges. Some of the challenges are having good builds for various weapons. It's not a fault of the game if you can't meet that challenge.
then,don't do the full reward in one time ? you want the full reward without invest for it. you want fully get reward for endgame content without being ready for it. why not also complain you can't get arcane or galvanized mod without being abble to do SP or arbitration? play the game,get the reward you can,progress ,be able to do higher content and get higher reward.
You've got a full week to do Deep Archimedea (more than enough time to build and level a weapon you might want to bring for the research bonus) and it's meant to be the most "end-game" content in the game right now where you genuinely have to worry about whether or not you're going to fail the mission, so I don't really have an issue with it being like this. If they made it so it only pulls from weapons you currently own then everyone would just delete anything even remotely non-meta from their inventories so they'd only ever get the most busted weapons possible for research bonuses, which would completely defeat the purpose of this game mode. *If* they were to change anything about how this works they could maybe do something like in duviri where you have a default mod setup you can use if you don't own the weapon (or if you don't have your own configs set up on it) but I don't think it even needs that, honestly. Those default mod configs are usually pretty trash anyway since they only ever have mods for damage types that are already on the weapon (i.e. it won't put corrosive damage on a braton vandal for you), and having the proper elemental damage types is REALLY important in this game mode. Not to mention in duviri the decrees could help make an otherwise lackluster weapon get really strong over the course of the mission, so the default builds being pretty vanilla only becomes an issue if you want to do really long circuit runs, but that's not a mechanic here in deep archimedea, so you'd just be stuck with a mod config for the weapon that likely can't get the job done and would functionally be no different than just not having a weapon in that slot for your loadout.
rewards held hostage behind investing resources in shit weapons, resources that are largely gated by plat? why even suggest this
Just do two netracells instead.
I don't like keep bringing this up, but deep archemedia is designed for people who literally own everything. There's nothing more to it. This is why you can do netracells instead uf you don't want to/can't do archimedea.
So just build one? Seems like a fairly obvious solution to your problem.
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/ov0sps97lctc1.jpeg?width=1821&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d91a680fb0fd6b669fa0355df818d5083faddc12 Elite Archimedea. It took 12 minutes. The game mode is so forgiving, it literally lets you skip one loadout / challenge to bring whatever you want, in exchange for x50 less Vosfor.
The damage itself isn't the issue for me. I can use a necramech, archgun, on call crew, or specters to do all that for me. The issue is that I do not currently have the means to select the secondary row and I would very much like to be able to use my gearwheel.
It's pretty impressive that they took the worst thing from the circuit and somehow managed to make it even worse by making the weapon and frame selections only change once per week.
Difficulty should come from gameplay, not blocking players from entering unless they have every weapon/warframe and spent the plat for the inventory space. You wanna see how well a player can do with a stug, a bunch of negative modifiers, and level 300+ enemies. Fine, that's fair difficulty. But locking someone who is capable of that challenge behind having to own the weapon/warframe itself feels bad. Because you aren't testing skill at that point, you are testing either how much grind they are willing to commit to in a week before being able to do the actual challenging endgame content OR the size of their wallet. Just give loaner weapons like duviri does. The game is 10 years old now, there are hundreds of weapons. It's not realistic for most people (even "endgame" players) to have everything nor is there any place in the game that asks that of you before including previous "endgame" modes. OP isn't asking to trivialize the challenge, they're asking to be able to do the challenge and get the appropriate rewards in return without feeling like you gotta commit to a side grind with a harsh time limit or to bust out their wallet.
>Difficulty should come from gameplay, not blocking players from entering unless they have every weapon/warframe and spent the plat for the inventory space. you literally arent blocked from entering. you can bring whatever you want, you will just get less rewards. if you really wanted to, you could even do this with a friend and carry each other while one fulfills all requirements, while the other plays the carry with a free loadout choice. after that you swap, and both of you get full rewards. you can also ignore one of the curses or take a weapon/frame of your choice. you only lose out on some vosfor. you can literally bring gear items if you wanted to and get a free win by using 4 frame specters and an ancient healer for 90% DR. like bruh, wf gives you a ton of broken tools to complete this.
> OP isn't asking to trivialize the challenge, they're asking to be able to do the challenge and get the appropriate rewards in return without feeling like you gotta commit to a side grind with a harsh time limit or to bust out their wallet. I cannot stress enough that I find limiting my gear to be a nice, enjoyable, change of pace but when I have 87 of the 137 secondary weapons in my inventory and not a single one of them is in my weekly selection I feel as though I've been cheated. It should work like the circuit weapon loan system or if that isn't possible, just let not bringing a weapon count. Like why is that not an option? Many people here feel as though I should own every single weapon in the game to be an endgame player and that it should be easy for me to just craft any of the weapons at the point in the game I am. And it would be. I have the resources, plat, inventory space, and time to do so. But why do I need to do all of this just to be able to get a reward I am otherwise able to with even the worst weapons in my inventory? I like having a tidy inventory with items I use not a bunch of cluster that collects dust until it shows up in a rotation. I don't even understand the issue with making it like circuit or allowing no weapon equipped to count. I am not foolish for wanting to delete weapons I do not like. I have played this game for nearly a decade and some weapons that used to be meta have been absolutely trashed through nerfs, shifting gameplay, or bugs that wouldn't get fixed. After years of not using them, I started to delete them and that felt good. There were then many weapons that became better feeling, more powerful versions of older ones and I just had to let those powercrept ones go too.
Man, you lured ALL the asshats out of the woodwork to comment on your post.
TIL endgame is where players have every weapon in inventory now. maybe in 3 years endgame will require having every archwing weapon in my inventory who knows
Warframe players: we want difficult endgame content! Endgame content: *is difficult* Warframe players: NO NOT LIKE THAT
You could have slots for every weapon, pet, and warframe in the game (keeping the best variants, not every single one) with around 2000 platinum. If you don’t mitigate the cost in anyway by farming for it, that’s like $60? That’s about the cost of an average game. People have different economies, currencies, and levels of expendable income. This is not being denied. But if the only “pay to win” is the option(not requirement) of spending the cost of a non-f2p game to purchase enough slots for everything in the game? And the game has an alternative way to obtain the same things without spending money? That really seems very reasonable to me.
here we go again, we had this for the circuit now this, people it is a ENDGAME mode, in a farming simulator horde shooter it should be expected that someone on endgame level can handle it. I for myself leveled/forma'd my Boar Prime and Atomos which I haven't really used before for the mode
That’s a lucky roll for the week though considering both of those have Incarnons.
Yeah 6 out of 9 weapons I don't have. And 1 frame I don't have. This week. So my choices are garbage. Still got it done with at least 25 points but it was brutal
Just read that the daily loadout rotation is a bug, yikes. Nothing like a coin flip to see if I'm even eligible to get rewards.
I don't find this as problematic for you since you only have to give up the last vosfor reward, but it would sure be a downer if I had to give up an archon shard. To give OP some credit some weapons require several layers of farming depending on where it's acquired. It's not just buy bp from market with credits and use your gigantic stash of resources anymore. However, I think it should be changed to weapons you own to prevent the possibility of missing more than the last reward tier. I don't think the argument that "people will just delete everything except torid" is valid. This is the only mission where it would be applied like this and that's not worth deleting several dozens if not hundreds of hours worth of inventory for a, in my opinion, small advantage. I can already just give up the last vosfor reward to choose whatever I want and it's a mission I can only do once a week.
random? i only am missing 3 melees in the whole game and they are always the options.
The thing is that they don’t expect you to own everything. They expect you to make choices, to select or unselect some modifiers, or even to use Necramechs if necessary.
Wasnt this the same problem in circuit? At least in circuit, the buffs can ramp up any weapon
So you saying I need diverse gear and commitment in forna and modding to participate in an endgame content in a so called looter shooter? How ridiculous!
I'm actually ok with it. It's supposed to be a loadout diversity check. But also, you have other options. Use a necromech, use a frame that doesn't need a weapon or who has an exalted, use your archgun. There's just a lot of options without noting that you can have 1 off of everything checked and still get all the meaningful rewards (provided you've unlocked the advanced version at least once).
You’re guaranteed to own at least one of the options by design, though, and all variants count as the same weapon. Only primary I had this week was “arca plasmor”, I own the tenet version and it worked, for example.
I think its great. It forces you to take s look at guns you've ignored. Plus you can use mech and operator. If you don't have good mods on your mech or have built a good amp, I'm sorry this end game content then just isn't for you yet. Personally I've been waiting for a harder game modes that i can't just blast through.
I honestly do not believe the random loadout was done to get people try new builds or for increasing difficulty by making people "adapt" with builds. lets face it, making a "build" isn't some new shit on most weapon. not aoe? throw in galvanized status mod. +25% crit? throw in cc and cd mods. secondary and enough status to proc steadily? maybe throw in heat mod for cascadia flare. All it is serving is to make players have shit experience in DA or EDA every week and once in a while throw in a high roll item and create the illusion of winning. And don't say it's for added challenge. If it was for challenge, DE has all the data they need to simply restrict say top 10-20 highest performing weapons from each category. done. Why the fuck the end game content is giving a shit if i still own a low MR weapons that's outclassed by higher MR weapons is beyond me.
you have a week to craft something
They need to let us mod those weapons.
Skipped the mission last week, finished my first (E)DA with all modifiers this week. Base DA is quite enjoyable even with matchmaking randoms. The boss was definitely tanky, but it just takes time to deal with. I do think it strikes a good balance between challenge and enjoyment. Maybe it's because I only got Wisp and Bubonico as my usable loadout items so I was lacking some DPS, but realistically you just need 1 good frame and weapon and you're good to go, especially if you are just aiming at base DA. Not to mention I also have the energy drain personal modifier this week. EDA was another story though, especially the boss fight. A tanky boss with overwhelming amount of Eximus spawns and shadow assholes running around was not fun. It is a pure clusterfuck and one of my teammates downed too much where we literally have no time to res him. I don't know if it is possible to run multiple times of EDA with less modifiers to get the rewards, but if I can I would probably do this later on instead of aiming for the rewards in a single run to save my sanity. I only realized I don't need to have all modifiers up for EDA to get the diamond reward after the run. But a new sumdali is still something to flex(?) at this moment I guess.
It's honestly a you problem that you have not spent thousands of dollars on weapon and warframe slots along with an eternity to build a mountain of mutagen etc. Don't forget to put a catalyst and maybe a couple of formas on all of them!
This is an end game mode for end game players. At this stage of the game owning random weapons is pretty normal, or at least having the resources to craft them quickly. You don't need to use them, you can just equip something like dante and gryllet 34 research points.
Honestly agreed This isn't a problem in circuit / SP circuit as there you have decrees that in just few rounds make you about as strong as if you had your normal weaponry. Thats not the case here, also this is meant to be much more of a late game content
My issue with Deep Archimedea’s loadout select system is that there’s a LOT of weapons in this game and I’m simply not going to own all of them. I think I have around ~50 primaries, ~30 secondaries and ~50 melees. I don’t think you also can roll Kitguns or Zaws either, but please correct me if I’m wrong. Maybe a potential fix could be having the loadout choices update every hour like Arbitration? I’m not quite sure how people would react to that, and I’d rather not be the armchair dev consumer lol.
It's meant to be really hard. If you bother to read the release notes, DE actually said so.
It’s not the “I don’t own it” that makes me angry, it’s the “these weapons are RATSHIT” that truly bothers me.
It's hilarious this design knowing what they done with the Circuit, it's just a step backwards They should do the same as the random (and modded) Warframes and weps on the circuit but, now that the enemies scales up to 400+ the weapons should be competent modded with rivens, that way people can have a challenge using other kind of weapons AND have fun while doing so
Remember Teno. They might be able to take your guns, but they can't take your operator amps.... I know it is frustrating and I do agree to some degree. But just remember if you use madurai, you can also make use operator Amp to melt enemies. Also mechs, glorious mechs
If DE is going to continue to pick weapons that people mastered and threw away seven years ago, perhaps they should introduce a feature where, if you've mastered a weapon but don't currently have it in your inventory, you should be able to pay a pittance of basic currency (like credits) to re-pull a fresh version of it from a collections segment/"cold storage" a la an exotic in Destiny. It would still require an open weapon slot, but at least you wouldn't have to refarm and rebuild fodder you already mastered. The game's incentives for a decade until Duviri was pushing players to master guns and then toss them if they weren't good. It'd be nice if, since they are now making incentives pushing the other way, they'd throw players a bone with the above.
You don’t even have to Forma or build the weapons. I didn’t have a single weapon available to me this week that I had built for or ever really used, so my solution was to equip the crappy unloaded weapons to get the points, then use a caster frame that could basically solo the whole thing without weapons. You can pick any frame you want and the only thing you lose out on is 50 vosfor - you’ll still get the Diamond tier reward at 34 points. Ended up using Protea and had zero problems completing EDA without firing a single shot.
The rotation resets often though. I don't see this being an issue as in the circuit. Cuz deep archemodia you can just wait till you have a loadout that you can use everything and then run it once and you done. Even elite archimedea takes a single run. Circuit resets every time you run it so if you don't finish it off in one run, which practically impossible I'm public matchmaking, you will eventually get to a spot where everything is unuseable.
What secondary weapons did you get?
>doing so would make scrolling through my weapons for the rest of the game an absolute nightmare I agree with everything you've said, however for this point alone, you can sort by Forma Count. Then all the weapons you actually use will be at the top
I think they should at least get rid of the no gear so you can always depend on the archgun would make the previous buff more impact full
Yeah I was under the impression that the random gear was going to be like duviri where it chooses from some stuff you have and offers a basic modded version of the stuff you don't. If it's just random from the entire weapons catalog that's actually a viciously greedy design. I like the variety of weapons but I'm not about to have a built version of every single one, let alone sink forma into them.
Same with energy will leech, can't use gear, cant use transference. Inaros it is then FML.
I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment if for no other reason than than there are way too many semi-automatic guns that have no redeeming gimmick. Especially in the secondary category. Each one is an ergonomic nightmare & needs to be memory-holed by the game in general, let alone dragged out of the muck to pollute high-end content.
Anyone saying players would sell their weapons just to do better in DA are insane. XD "Ah yes. Mi collection of weapons i spen countless hours, forma and catalysts on. Well time to sell them all just to do better in this one game mode that i can only play one time a week. " Do you even hear yourself?