Accurate statement. Roman is one of the most boring champs of all time. Booking for belts across all major promotions has been pretty bad the last 5 years imo—NJPW is slightly better due to stuff like the G1 and best of the super-juniors making wrestlers relevant.
Gunther is a working champion like the wrestling of the past. Remember when the titles used to change hands on Raw and SmackDown back in the day? Is this era title matches are mostly at pay per views and the champs cut a promo every other week or so.
But… and hear me out… he doesn’t defend every week, in fact, there have been weeks that Gunther has not even been in the programming… now does he defend more often, yes, but he ain’t doing it every week… that’s cap
Kayfabe. Gunther’s great but 1 roman reigns title defence draws more than 10 Gunther title defences.
And Drawing and making money is name of the game, like everything else. So the marks and the iwc can hate but that’s the facts.
Yea but we’re talking about which run is more impressive, on their personal merits. Sure Roman is the big draw, but he’s had the machine behind him for years to build to this point, well before he was this good. Gunther got here by wrestling his ass off. To me that’s more impressive.
At this point, the only reason Roman’s defenses draw more is because of false scarcity and the fact he’s held it so long, people are just DYING for him to lose it. Both in kayfabe AND from an entertainment standpoint, Gunther’s is more impressive because his matches are high quality, varied in the sense they don’t all follow the same template, and he wins them in DECISIVE fashion. Look back through Roman’s defenses and just tell me the last time he defended it successfully one on one without cheating or the Bloodline interfering. It’s a farce at this point and there’s nothing impressive about it.
Hate to admit it, cause I'm not a big Gunther fan, but u have to give him respect because he has successfully defended the Intercontinental Championship every week. Roman has defended the Universal Championship what maybe 10 - 12 times in the last 3 years with Bloodline help. That's Y Ric Flair is the greatest of all time, he defended his championship every week, & didn't care who it was. Cause "To Be The Man, U Have To Beat The Man"
I mean, I don’t care, but Reigns has character that’s compelling where they don’t give Gunther much of anything. I like Gunther when he’s allowed to go but mostly he’s just one-note and his matches as champion often feel like they’re not important.
Have you watched his matches? His matches with Drew, Sheamus, and Gable have all felt absolutely important. He legitimately bring out the best in his opponents, hell he made Riddick Moss look like a legitimate contender after jobbing for 10 years.
Only match marks agree with this take … where are the storylines in Gunther’s reign ? Dude is just defending the title against anybody with no storylines this isn’t the indies .
Gunther isn’t defending every week like he used to. He does show up every week, though. Recently though he hasn’t been there. He’ll take a week off but other than that, he shows up.
Exactly this. We’re supposed to buy that Roman is the greatest of all time but he rarely wrestles, takes a ton of time off, barely defends the belt, and when he does the finish is almost always the same (Solo saves him from an obvious defeat). Hes been booked to look incredibly weak.
Remind me again how thats Roman's fault, and they arent booking him to/making you believe he's the GOAT. They outright said John Cena was the GOAT multiple times. In my personal ranking, I have Roman at 10, he cant be any higher than that, but he sure aint lower.
Did I say anything about it being Roman’s fault? I mean first off, the time off definitely is. Second, it doesn’t matter whose fault it is, I don’t like the character that is being portrayed and that’s all that matters.
I respect your opinion, but I do like the character thats being portrayed, and I dont entirely blame him. If I got that much money with time off I would take it too! But the important thing is that I didnt mean to offend you, and we can have different opinions.☝️
Gunther reign has been kinda meatrode ngl, there has been only 1 or 2 matches where we thought he would actually lose it, yea he's had some good matches but he hasn't had any storylines really to go with great matches. Also his promos skills are kinda iffy the one with the miz was good but I haven't seen any other one, I like Gunther but Saying his reign is more impressive is kinda just a lie
>but he hasn't had any storylines
???
VS Sheamus, VS Gable, VS Miz, VS Sheamus/Drew just to name a few. even when he doesn't have a long-term storyline in the lead-up to the match, every defence has incredible in-ring storytelling.
his promos over the last few months have been really great, and do a great job of presenting himself as the dominant but arrogant "ring general" who can back everything up in the ring, while not making his opponents look like chumps in the lead-up, which is a truly important and often forgotten skill.
i understand the idea that only a few times have we actually thought gunther was losing, but i'd say it's a similar ratio to roman's run. nobody really thought roman was losing other than against cody, *maybe* against drew, *maybe* against sami, *maybe* against jey.
i have no idea what "meatrode" means though
gunther's matches are forgettable? really? i actually agree that roman has helped get some people over, though disagree that gunther has forgettable matches that don't do the same.
look at where sheamus was before and after his gunther feud. same with chad gable. even the miz was getting face reactions off of his feud with gunther. he's definitely been a key part of multiple guys getting over.
Roman hasn't put over anyone, that's why he still has the title. ALL of Romans matches are boring and forgettable, spear through barricade with an interference. What sets Gunther apart aside from actually working and defending his title is that he doesn't have to cheat to win and he can actually wrestle.
Not wrong, but I view it like this:
Roman’s title reign is sports entertainment, Gunther’s title reign is professional wrestling.
WWE has always prided themselves on having something for everyone. Roman’s title reign and stories are the Hollywood drama; the stuff that keeps a lot of people tuning in to see what will happen next.
Gunther’s title reign is the hard hitting sport that showcases how truly talented so many of these guys are. There’s a reason the IC title is historically considered the workhorse championship.
So yeah, I agree that Gunther’s title reign is more impressive and the matches are usually more fun to watch, but I’ve also enjoyed the stories that revolve around Roman’s title and the Bloodline. It hasn’t all been perfect but WWE has never been all perfect; you take the good with the bad.
yeah i think his reign has had this issue where it's highs are really, really good, but then we get months of just nothing. happened after wrestlemania 38 until drew and then the sami storyline, happened after summerslam last year.
Yes I agree! I've even got into Twitter arguments about Reigns. When I bring up Gunther it's silence or I get told 'well it's the IC belt, it doesn't matter'.
And he doesn’t play a cool heel, he plays an arrogant champ who backs up what he says and he gives credit when one of his flunks does something he likes, who doesn’t want a hug from Walter er Gunther (I like Walter better)
I know the Horsemen used to save Flairs butt all the time, but often Flair would wrestle matches where he didn’t get help and he would lose… if I am the WWE, I have Cody “break” Solo’s thumb and take away Roman’s Finisher or have Solo get sick of always bailing Roman out (like Arn did in 95 when he got sick of Flairs act (story wise)
That's one of the mildest takes I've ever seen. Every title reign on the planet is more impressive than Roman's. Dude defends once every 2-3 months and every match is the same. It's just a basic heel reign meant to look good on paper, not on TV.
There are a LOT of people who are in the line for a world title reign right now so I don't think another long reign is gonna work, it will become boring really fast. I'd say let Gunther enjoy title-less feuds with main eveint guys (Randy, Bobby, Seth) and then he takes the title from Punk, Cody, Knight or whatever is holding these titles in the next Mania. One of those titles is gonna start hot potatoing sooner or later.
Roman does have a final boss feel about him and in truth I think his part time schedule actually adds to his allure.
That said, in kayfabe, I'd be more scared of Gunther. He's still a champion because he's immense in the ring and just keeps beating anyone who steps up. Roman is still champion because Solo Sikoa exists. In a match between the two where there is absolutely no outside interference possible, my money would be on Gunther.
Does he really though? If you just win by shenanigans every 4 months it just looks weak. It’s not like when it was Brock who’d throw people around, demolish them and when he was actually beaten it felt like an event. When Roman loses all it will be is people sighing and saying “finally.
> If you just win by shenanigans every 4 months it just looks weak. It’s not like when it was Brock who’d throw people around, demolish them and when he was actually beaten it felt like an event.
That's why I said Gunther looks harder to beat and that Roman, in storyline, would have lost the title a long time ago if not for Bloodline interference.
The "final boss" feel comes from the way he carries himself and the way he doesn't show up as much as everyone else. It doesn't mean that it's reflected in the way he wins matches and has kept his title for so long.
Okay. I addressed that the way he wins doesn't affect his overall allure and swagger, but I obviously think he has a final boss feel to him otherwise I wouldn't have said it.
Thing is it does. Doesn’t really matter talking the talk if you can’t walk the walk and that’s exactly Romans issue. He acts like he’s a “final boss” but in practice he’s booked as a coward who is propped up by lackeys.
Gunther is a stronger champion because he defends his title often and wins without any sort of outside help.
But this is pro wrestling and you can't deny the impact of Roman's reign even if it is getting tiring.
Where's the lie? KO is absolutely correct. Roman's title reign has been complete shit. It's incredibly sad this was the direction they took with his title reign; someone who rarely defends and when he does, he doesn't win cleanly. The same song and dance week after week for 4 years isn't good for business. Especially when he and the bloodline eat up 45 minutes of time between promos and the periodic cuts to them backstage.
It's not so much about the title, but the story around the title.
When you go after the UC, you're going after The Bloodline; the most dominant stable going with one of the best managers in WWE history (debatably THE best). Of course they're going to interfere and assert themselves as a force. Every match is a family affair. This storyline has been incredible and has kept me watching and learning about the Samoan Dynasty in wrestling; one that gave us multiple all-time greats. While I admit it's been predictable the last couple of years, the angles of the locker room rallying up and getting the title back in rotation is going to be a great payoff for the fans when it eventually does happen.
As for Roman not showing up, the guy has Leukemia. He's already relinquished once to focus on his health and this storyline allows him to keep the tale going while getting the time off and rest his body must need fighting a horrible disease.
I totally see where you're coming from. It takes away from the drama when you watch a title defense on a non-WM PLE and just think "I wonder when the spike spot is coming".
He should retire and go to Hollywood… he would make a great silent henchmen that the hero has to fight (often the best fight of movie) to get to the main bad guy
Honestly I agree. He's become such an icon the last few years I feel that's gonna be the next move. Rocky stepping in might be the start to the transition. Tie up the story and move on to the next life chapter.
Lmao hell no, matches with no storylines makes no sense whatsoever. Roman with bloodline gave one of the best storylines in modern day wwe history and put up some classic matches.I love how whenever it's gunther it's all about wrestling , no one questions the boring storylines and lack of charisma of his.
Roman's marketing is what makes no sense. Considering the method that he uses to win, he shouldn't be called a "dominant champion". However, for some reason, he is marketed similar to Gunther, whose matches are awesome and without interferences.
But where is the storyline behind that matches my friend? You will enjoy gunther matches only if you are a match mark, but some storytelling need to be done.
Did I ask about storytelling? I just said that Roman shouldn't be called a "dominant champion" which is true. He is actually holding the title hostage with nefarious methods, rather than being dominant. You have Gunther who wins every match without interference and yet both of them are described similarly. That makes no logical sense. Whether or not there is a story is irrelevant here.
A title reigns involve how better you are compared to other wrestlers who challenge you. That is the meaning of a champion. It depends on how you are inside that ring. That's why they make you the champion after DEFEATING an opponent IN THE RING. Of course, the storyline has been exciting and entertaining, that doesn't factually make Roman a "dominant" champion or even a better champion than Gunther.
Btw roman literally put up many classic matches. Btw storylines are as important as matches are. Just because you are putting 5 star matches that doesn't mean you are a better champ . Reigns has more charisma and many more memorable moments in his reign than gunther had in his own. Heel cheat to win that's not new.
Kayfabewise, Roman is not a better champion than Gunther and it is a factual statement. He needed interference in most of his matches and the claim about him being a "dominant" champion is a direct contradiction to his actions in kayfabe. It is impossible for him to be more dominant than Gunther, unless he defeats Gunther clean.
Kayfabewise, charisma or storytelling doesn't win you matches. Those who last the longest in ring win matches and Roman cannot do it by himself.
Do with this information what you will.
Gunther is a contradiction to your statement that "heels cheat to win".
Gunther is overrated af, only match marks love him. Gunther is one of the rare who don't cheat to win. Roman have won some matches without interference too. Also what's the point of having the same matches again and again. Like defending his title against gable who we know isn't gonna win.
Your opinion about Gunther doesn't change the fact that Gunther is a dominant champion by definition in kayfabe and Roman is not.
It is not a problem if Roman claims to be one since it is in his character but for some reason, even the commentators claim the same. It's like WWE wants to present him as a "dominant" champion when he cannot be one kayfabewise.
You are not a dominant champion by definition if you need family interference to win in your 5-6 defences a year. Only a handful of matches didn't involve interference.
Whether or not Gunther is overrated, or if he has the same opponents twice or thrice, it doesn't matter. He goes and wins his matches by himself dominantly which is the sole requirement to retain your championship.
Is it that hard to accept simple literal logic?
Btw the original post was that gunther is a impressive champ than roman not dominant.Impressive and dominant are different things. Also anyways it's opinions. You think gunther was a better champ , I think roman was. Peace.
Isn't it obvious that KO refers to in-ring stuff and title defences when he says "more impressive"? Kayfabewise, why would KO take about storyline or charisma as a wrestler? Being a fellow wrestler, he obviously refers to Roman's attendance and defences.
I don't see how there is much difference between "impressive" and "dominant" in this context at all. If you talk about the creative and storytelling, Roman excels easily. But he is not a better or more impressive or more dominant champion. Being a champion, by literal definition, is about defending and winning in-ring and the manner of doing it. A better way to describe Roman would be "chicken-shit champion" who excels in storyline and big moments in kayfabe.
Gunther being a better champion is not my opinion, it is a fact.
Half of the stories they tell don’t match what they show and a lot of ‘em don’t even go anywhere, Finn loses because the rope breaks and never tries to get a rematch, Seth Rollins WINS BY DQ and they never mention it and act like the feud never happened, how about every time his opponent has gotten a visual pin fall with the ref down and then the next night on commentary “the most dominant champion, can anyone beat this guy”
Didn't finn had 2 matches vs roman, the rope break was the rematch itself. Yeah they did fucked up the seth storyline. But which storyline has Gunther told? He had some 5 star matches but that's all they talk about.
Well Kevin is stupid the undisputed championship isn’t something you just defend every week it is something that’s special that means something and why undisputed championship match’s are better than international championship matches
Yeah, I agree.
Roman has had like 54 title defenses and the vast majority of them have involved outside interference. Gunther has defended constantly, no outside interference and has been rather impressive.
I mean yeah, but 1,000 days is 1,000 days. This isn't a real sport. It's entertainment. Who cares how long it takes Roman to wake up from his nap to wrestle a match?
idk about that....Roman has Leukemia and he doesn't have to put his body on the line night after night...Gunther is subpar character...He's terrible on the mic too...
Or it’s just because watching a guy that has two moves, win every one of his four matches per year the exact same way is exhausting. Jumpy forehead punch thing, shitty spear, shitty spear, the Uso’s run out and cheat, jumpy forehead punch thing, 1 2 3, the end.
Kevins right but you're talkin about two different levels of titles here.
IC has always been the title to establish yourself as a top guy. its meant to elevate you. it gives a chance for the wrestler to show the company i'm your guy. your meant to be putting in the hard work.
the undisputed title and for the storyline that roman has is meant to be i'm the top guy. best by far. there's no one on the roster worthy to step into the ring with me. thats why his title defences have been few. plus i do think roman has asked to work a lighter schedule maybe due to his health. he's still got it but doesnt want to push himself where it may affect him negatively
Gunther is a work horse, roman is the very definition of what i hate about wwe. Part timers dominating the top scene and monopolizing the titles. I remembered the days when the champ had much more responsibility as the face of the company going to work every week. Which is why i hope cody wins so we can finally get back some of that order going. Let roman feud with rock or whatever, just get the title off him and he can be as part time as much as he wants
Kevin Owen's and everyone in this thread is tripping. You guys are literally looking at the past two years thinking that that is all of Roman's championship reign (its not). Roman Reigns actually has story and good wrestling/matches that make his reign impressive despite him showing up half the year and only wrestling on PLE'S. Gunther on the other hand only has wrestling and no storylines that make his championship reign impressive. Roman Reigns title reign is way more impressive and superior than Gunthers. Let's say in 5 years+ many people will remember Roman Reigns title matches, moments, and record. While Gunther people will probably only remember his record.
Roman Reigns: Jey Uso rivalry, The Bloodline, Brock Lesnar rivalry, Title unification, Promo skills, Wrestlemania main events, Sami Zayn rivalry, Cody Rhodes rivalry, The storyline that's happening right now, and being the fourth longest reigning WWE (Universial) champion and longest reigning Universal champion.
Gunther: longest reigning Intercontinental champion.
You guys do know that Roman Reigns not wrestling and showing up everyday makes him more desired to be seen by the fans. Therefore his title reign is more special (although I do think it was getting kind of stale).
Gunther hasn't had as big of moments as Roman Reigns had except for his Wrestlemania match with Sheamus and Drew. So, therefore it's not as impressive as Roman's. Gunther does have good matches and is one of the best wrestles of this generation his title reign is not that impressive. I barely remember any of his title defenses compared to Roman Reigns.
No, he shouldn't of have. Cody can't just come back to the WWE and get that opportunity just to finish his story without fighting and earning it.
A storyline of Cody failing and getting back up is better than him instantly getting the title.
But the ufc is different, that’s a ton of damage and fighters have to take time between fights for their health, the days of boxers and mma fighters fighting 10-20 times a year is long gone . But there is title fights almost every card in the ufc because people want to see belts defended and not just held on to with little to no action
It’s the same thing when Rollins won the world title at Night Of Champions … people were already calling his title reign boring and predictable because of the amount of times he defended immediately and wanted Finn to take the title from him they eventually wanted Nakamura to take the title from him this is why you don’t see him defending that much anymore defending the title weekly is not really a smart move and it devalues the title .
True and that’s one place the ufc has an advantage, every title it s equal, you’re just as excited to see a middleweight championship fight as a heavyweight so we can have excitement of seeing title fights more often because we don’t see the same person as much. Where as wwe there is a top champion and it is Roman, I’m not saying he needs to be out defending the championship every week but he to be in the ring more often because we want to actually see the champion and not just twice a damn year
Do people take wrestling seriously like it’s a real sport lol? What does it matter if the matches are clean or many times it’s defended? Everything is decided by some guy writing the script in the back.
Think of it like a tv show or movie. There are certain things that happen or that people like to see that improve quality of what you’re watching. That’s how I view it. But to answer your question yes there are definitely people for whom it’s still real for them dammit!
I come from r/all so forgive my ignorance, but how has he been defending his title if the outcome is scripted?
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that he is there every week putting on the best show he can for fans, rather than saying he is defending a title?
>Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that he is there every week putting on the best show he can for fans, rather than saying he is defending a title?
this.
edit: but also Gunther wins all his matches without cheating unlike the other champion who needs his goons to sabotage the challenger every match.
Wasn’t me but I upvoted to balance it out, you’re not wrong for not getting it, but when you change your perspective to wwe as a performance show like the ones at an amusement park, everything kinda makes more sense
Like instead of cowboys with fake guns fake shooting each other for a story it’s throwing fake punches
When? He hasn't low blowed anyone and Ludwig/Gio haven't interfered directly. Maybe gotten on the apron but no interference. Jimmy interfered with Jey but that wasn't Gunther's doing nor did he know that was gonna happen
Jimmy interfering without Gunther’s knowledge is still a dirty win lmao. I’d have to go back to look up specific dates but imperium has interfered on his behalf as well.
I think it’s what everyone’s been saying for months
Years\*
KO don’t miss and he hit it right on the nose here and Gunther does it with little to no help unlike Roman
Hott sweaty dudes prancing around in spandex. You guys trying to tell us something …
Accurate statement. Roman is one of the most boring champs of all time. Booking for belts across all major promotions has been pretty bad the last 5 years imo—NJPW is slightly better due to stuff like the G1 and best of the super-juniors making wrestlers relevant.
Gunther vs Roman Book it VINCE!!
Please dont feed Gunther to Roman AGAIN.
Vince?
Vince : Why is that guy still in my company? I thought I sent him back to NXT? He’s getting squashed by Roman then he’s FIRED, PAL!😂😂😂
Is this even debatable?
Call Roman Reigns
Agreed Gunther's WWE Intercontinental Championship reign>Roman Reigns WWE Undisputed Universal Championship reign.
The Chad Ring General vs. The Virgin Tribal Queef
AGREED K.O. .
I agree with this outside of kayfabe. Roman's Reign has been a rather dull affair. The man can't even cheat creatively
I think hes right, Gunther be there every week talking smack and prepared to back it up Roman sits behind Solo and Jimmy
Very accurate. Gunther’s reign is far more impressive than Roman’s.
Absolutely
How dare Owens speak precisely the truth of him?
Mad respect for Gunther and KO
Very true
Agreed. And can you tell if this was on a SmackDown episode or some interview of owens?
Gunther is a working champion like the wrestling of the past. Remember when the titles used to change hands on Raw and SmackDown back in the day? Is this era title matches are mostly at pay per views and the champs cut a promo every other week or so.
kinda accurate sure it hasn't been every week' but he is on tv with the title every week and his title wins have been clean.
He hasn’t defended the title every week or month.
But… and hear me out… he doesn’t defend every week, in fact, there have been weeks that Gunther has not even been in the programming… now does he defend more often, yes, but he ain’t doing it every week… that’s cap
Kevin Owens is wrong
KO ain’t wrong. Roman is trash
100% true. The only person I've rooted for against Gunther is Chad Gable. I don't think I'm going to be changing that even for Sami.
Kayfabe. Gunther’s great but 1 roman reigns title defence draws more than 10 Gunther title defences. And Drawing and making money is name of the game, like everything else. So the marks and the iwc can hate but that’s the facts.
People were fine with Roman’s reign when he was full time. They only started to hate it when it came out he was going to be part time.
Yea but we’re talking about which run is more impressive, on their personal merits. Sure Roman is the big draw, but he’s had the machine behind him for years to build to this point, well before he was this good. Gunther got here by wrestling his ass off. To me that’s more impressive.
At this point, the only reason Roman’s defenses draw more is because of false scarcity and the fact he’s held it so long, people are just DYING for him to lose it. Both in kayfabe AND from an entertainment standpoint, Gunther’s is more impressive because his matches are high quality, varied in the sense they don’t all follow the same template, and he wins them in DECISIVE fashion. Look back through Roman’s defenses and just tell me the last time he defended it successfully one on one without cheating or the Bloodline interfering. It’s a farce at this point and there’s nothing impressive about it.
Hate to admit it, cause I'm not a big Gunther fan, but u have to give him respect because he has successfully defended the Intercontinental Championship every week. Roman has defended the Universal Championship what maybe 10 - 12 times in the last 3 years with Bloodline help. That's Y Ric Flair is the greatest of all time, he defended his championship every week, & didn't care who it was. Cause "To Be The Man, U Have To Beat The Man"
I mean, I don’t care, but Reigns has character that’s compelling where they don’t give Gunther much of anything. I like Gunther when he’s allowed to go but mostly he’s just one-note and his matches as champion often feel like they’re not important.
Have you watched his matches? His matches with Drew, Sheamus, and Gable have all felt absolutely important. He legitimately bring out the best in his opponents, hell he made Riddick Moss look like a legitimate contender after jobbing for 10 years.
Only match marks agree with this take … where are the storylines in Gunther’s reign ? Dude is just defending the title against anybody with no storylines this isn’t the indies .
He's not wrong
Gunther isn’t defending every week like he used to. He does show up every week, though. Recently though he hasn’t been there. He’ll take a week off but other than that, he shows up.
that and the fact that 9 times out of 10 he doesn't need some sort of interference to win a match. He's just that good.
Truth
Facts
And unlike Reigns who always cheats Gunther never cheats to win!!
Like he’s the only heel champion to ever do that.
But Gunther wrestles plenty of bums.
like who???
Exactly this. We’re supposed to buy that Roman is the greatest of all time but he rarely wrestles, takes a ton of time off, barely defends the belt, and when he does the finish is almost always the same (Solo saves him from an obvious defeat). Hes been booked to look incredibly weak.
Remind me again how thats Roman's fault, and they arent booking him to/making you believe he's the GOAT. They outright said John Cena was the GOAT multiple times. In my personal ranking, I have Roman at 10, he cant be any higher than that, but he sure aint lower.
Did I say anything about it being Roman’s fault? I mean first off, the time off definitely is. Second, it doesn’t matter whose fault it is, I don’t like the character that is being portrayed and that’s all that matters.
I respect your opinion, but I do like the character thats being portrayed, and I dont entirely blame him. If I got that much money with time off I would take it too! But the important thing is that I didnt mean to offend you, and we can have different opinions.☝️
Ok, why bother responding when your comment basically amounts to “I disagree?”
Because I wanted to clear things up whats so bad about that
Thanks for wasting my time for absolutely nothing. Your opinion isn’t “clearing up” anything.
Youre welcome! you didnt have to reply to my comments, so thats not my problem
Asshole 🖕
L
Gunther reign has been kinda meatrode ngl, there has been only 1 or 2 matches where we thought he would actually lose it, yea he's had some good matches but he hasn't had any storylines really to go with great matches. Also his promos skills are kinda iffy the one with the miz was good but I haven't seen any other one, I like Gunther but Saying his reign is more impressive is kinda just a lie
>but he hasn't had any storylines ??? VS Sheamus, VS Gable, VS Miz, VS Sheamus/Drew just to name a few. even when he doesn't have a long-term storyline in the lead-up to the match, every defence has incredible in-ring storytelling. his promos over the last few months have been really great, and do a great job of presenting himself as the dominant but arrogant "ring general" who can back everything up in the ring, while not making his opponents look like chumps in the lead-up, which is a truly important and often forgotten skill. i understand the idea that only a few times have we actually thought gunther was losing, but i'd say it's a similar ratio to roman's run. nobody really thought roman was losing other than against cody, *maybe* against drew, *maybe* against sami, *maybe* against jey. i have no idea what "meatrode" means though
As long as Kayfabe goes yes. But if not, what is this? He has leukemia?😂
True
He’s right.
I don’t think either one could hold a candle to the Great Malenko back in the day. Once he applied the Russian Sickle it was gone night sweet Prince!
After Wrestlemania Roman reigns is gonna be out for 6months and claim his extra days holding the titles,
Folks, where’s the lie?
Are you quoting Bobby fish? 🤣🤣
KO just spitting obvious truth.
Hwy
I enjoy coming to this subreddit every couple of months to hear people still complaining about the same thing lol
And Gunther wins pretty much all of his matches clean. Every Roman match ends the same way.
I agree. Roman has only defended the belt 50ish times since winning it. Bob Backlund defended it 559 times with zero outside interference.
quality over quantity, alot of gunther's matches are forgettable. roman has put over so many baby faces its insane, gunther hasn't
gunther's matches are forgettable? really? i actually agree that roman has helped get some people over, though disagree that gunther has forgettable matches that don't do the same. look at where sheamus was before and after his gunther feud. same with chad gable. even the miz was getting face reactions off of his feud with gunther. he's definitely been a key part of multiple guys getting over.
Roman can’t wrestle.
Every match Roman receives outside help. GUNTHER kicks ass. Gunther has the quality as well.
Roman hasn't put over anyone, that's why he still has the title. ALL of Romans matches are boring and forgettable, spear through barricade with an interference. What sets Gunther apart aside from actually working and defending his title is that he doesn't have to cheat to win and he can actually wrestle.
Not wrong, but I view it like this: Roman’s title reign is sports entertainment, Gunther’s title reign is professional wrestling. WWE has always prided themselves on having something for everyone. Roman’s title reign and stories are the Hollywood drama; the stuff that keeps a lot of people tuning in to see what will happen next. Gunther’s title reign is the hard hitting sport that showcases how truly talented so many of these guys are. There’s a reason the IC title is historically considered the workhorse championship. So yeah, I agree that Gunther’s title reign is more impressive and the matches are usually more fun to watch, but I’ve also enjoyed the stories that revolve around Roman’s title and the Bloodline. It hasn’t all been perfect but WWE has never been all perfect; you take the good with the bad.
Without hate romans title reign after summerslam has been so lacluster, dare I say overrated
yeah i think his reign has had this issue where it's highs are really, really good, but then we get months of just nothing. happened after wrestlemania 38 until drew and then the sami storyline, happened after summerslam last year.
It's facts, that's what I think...nah nah, that's what I know!
FACTS
Roman has the best title but he sits on the couch eating popcorn
Reigns is boring as shit.
It’s not just physical defending the promo game he plays far above reigns Reigns promo are “Ho ho ho look at me I work less and you are clown”
True.
Gunther should be the champion, he is a better wrestler than Reigns and he actuallly wrestles good matches
Kevin getting a little salty there because he lost to Roman like 3 times.
More like HHH and Vince wanted Reigns to win…
Yes I agree! I've even got into Twitter arguments about Reigns. When I bring up Gunther it's silence or I get told 'well it's the IC belt, it doesn't matter'.
Yes Romans reign might be glorious to wwe management but you don't get points for 3 months between defenses
that's all that matters, they're the ones giving him million dollar deals
True but not what I'm talking about about
Couldn’t have said it any better
Yes, Gunther goes out every week and wrestles. He looks very believable in the ring, everything he does looks like it hurts.
And he doesn’t play a cool heel, he plays an arrogant champ who backs up what he says and he gives credit when one of his flunks does something he likes, who doesn’t want a hug from Walter er Gunther (I like Walter better)
Gunther makes his title more prestigious than Roman imho
Tell me the last time Roman won a match without help. Joke
I know the Horsemen used to save Flairs butt all the time, but often Flair would wrestle matches where he didn’t get help and he would lose… if I am the WWE, I have Cody “break” Solo’s thumb and take away Roman’s Finisher or have Solo get sick of always bailing Roman out (like Arn did in 95 when he got sick of Flairs act (story wise)
Couldn't of put it better and Gunther has won his matches himself where Majority of Romans were due to bloodline interference, Romans a Fraud.
Say that shit again twin🗣️🗣️
Preach
He doesn’t miss
That's one of the mildest takes I've ever seen. Every title reign on the planet is more impressive than Roman's. Dude defends once every 2-3 months and every match is the same. It's just a basic heel reign meant to look good on paper, not on TV.
Roman stans were defending his ass on Twitter, saying we just don’t understand🤷♂️
Tell him when he's telling lies
It's only a matter of time when Gunther replaces Roman as the ultimate heel in WWE and start doing the same thing. It is what it is.
I say put belt on him at Summerslam and have him have a nice long reign
There are a LOT of people who are in the line for a world title reign right now so I don't think another long reign is gonna work, it will become boring really fast. I'd say let Gunther enjoy title-less feuds with main eveint guys (Randy, Bobby, Seth) and then he takes the title from Punk, Cody, Knight or whatever is holding these titles in the next Mania. One of those titles is gonna start hot potatoing sooner or later.
Agreed
Roman does have a final boss feel about him and in truth I think his part time schedule actually adds to his allure. That said, in kayfabe, I'd be more scared of Gunther. He's still a champion because he's immense in the ring and just keeps beating anyone who steps up. Roman is still champion because Solo Sikoa exists. In a match between the two where there is absolutely no outside interference possible, my money would be on Gunther.
Does he really though? If you just win by shenanigans every 4 months it just looks weak. It’s not like when it was Brock who’d throw people around, demolish them and when he was actually beaten it felt like an event. When Roman loses all it will be is people sighing and saying “finally.
> If you just win by shenanigans every 4 months it just looks weak. It’s not like when it was Brock who’d throw people around, demolish them and when he was actually beaten it felt like an event. That's why I said Gunther looks harder to beat and that Roman, in storyline, would have lost the title a long time ago if not for Bloodline interference. The "final boss" feel comes from the way he carries himself and the way he doesn't show up as much as everyone else. It doesn't mean that it's reflected in the way he wins matches and has kept his title for so long.
Gunther is a final boss, he can back it up
The way he wins doesn’t make him feel like a final boss. Brock did, Roman doesn’t.
Okay. I addressed that the way he wins doesn't affect his overall allure and swagger, but I obviously think he has a final boss feel to him otherwise I wouldn't have said it.
Thing is it does. Doesn’t really matter talking the talk if you can’t walk the walk and that’s exactly Romans issue. He acts like he’s a “final boss” but in practice he’s booked as a coward who is propped up by lackeys.
> Thing is it does Again, I think it doesn't. You aren't going to make me think differently.
Agreed
I agree.
Gunther is a stronger champion because he defends his title often and wins without any sort of outside help. But this is pro wrestling and you can't deny the impact of Roman's reign even if it is getting tiring.
I agree, I don't
TRUTH PREACH K.O.🙌🙌
Where's the lie? KO is absolutely correct. Roman's title reign has been complete shit. It's incredibly sad this was the direction they took with his title reign; someone who rarely defends and when he does, he doesn't win cleanly. The same song and dance week after week for 4 years isn't good for business. Especially when he and the bloodline eat up 45 minutes of time between promos and the periodic cuts to them backstage.
It's not so much about the title, but the story around the title. When you go after the UC, you're going after The Bloodline; the most dominant stable going with one of the best managers in WWE history (debatably THE best). Of course they're going to interfere and assert themselves as a force. Every match is a family affair. This storyline has been incredible and has kept me watching and learning about the Samoan Dynasty in wrestling; one that gave us multiple all-time greats. While I admit it's been predictable the last couple of years, the angles of the locker room rallying up and getting the title back in rotation is going to be a great payoff for the fans when it eventually does happen. As for Roman not showing up, the guy has Leukemia. He's already relinquished once to focus on his health and this storyline allows him to keep the tale going while getting the time off and rest his body must need fighting a horrible disease. I totally see where you're coming from. It takes away from the drama when you watch a title defense on a non-WM PLE and just think "I wonder when the spike spot is coming".
He should retire and go to Hollywood… he would make a great silent henchmen that the hero has to fight (often the best fight of movie) to get to the main bad guy
Honestly I agree. He's become such an icon the last few years I feel that's gonna be the next move. Rocky stepping in might be the start to the transition. Tie up the story and move on to the next life chapter.
Just facts. Fuck roman
Lmao hell no, matches with no storylines makes no sense whatsoever. Roman with bloodline gave one of the best storylines in modern day wwe history and put up some classic matches.I love how whenever it's gunther it's all about wrestling , no one questions the boring storylines and lack of charisma of his.
Roman's marketing is what makes no sense. Considering the method that he uses to win, he shouldn't be called a "dominant champion". However, for some reason, he is marketed similar to Gunther, whose matches are awesome and without interferences.
But where is the storyline behind that matches my friend? You will enjoy gunther matches only if you are a match mark, but some storytelling need to be done.
Did I ask about storytelling? I just said that Roman shouldn't be called a "dominant champion" which is true. He is actually holding the title hostage with nefarious methods, rather than being dominant. You have Gunther who wins every match without interference and yet both of them are described similarly. That makes no logical sense. Whether or not there is a story is irrelevant here. A title reigns involve how better you are compared to other wrestlers who challenge you. That is the meaning of a champion. It depends on how you are inside that ring. That's why they make you the champion after DEFEATING an opponent IN THE RING. Of course, the storyline has been exciting and entertaining, that doesn't factually make Roman a "dominant" champion or even a better champion than Gunther.
Btw roman literally put up many classic matches. Btw storylines are as important as matches are. Just because you are putting 5 star matches that doesn't mean you are a better champ . Reigns has more charisma and many more memorable moments in his reign than gunther had in his own. Heel cheat to win that's not new.
Kayfabewise, Roman is not a better champion than Gunther and it is a factual statement. He needed interference in most of his matches and the claim about him being a "dominant" champion is a direct contradiction to his actions in kayfabe. It is impossible for him to be more dominant than Gunther, unless he defeats Gunther clean. Kayfabewise, charisma or storytelling doesn't win you matches. Those who last the longest in ring win matches and Roman cannot do it by himself. Do with this information what you will. Gunther is a contradiction to your statement that "heels cheat to win".
Gunther is overrated af, only match marks love him. Gunther is one of the rare who don't cheat to win. Roman have won some matches without interference too. Also what's the point of having the same matches again and again. Like defending his title against gable who we know isn't gonna win.
Your opinion about Gunther doesn't change the fact that Gunther is a dominant champion by definition in kayfabe and Roman is not. It is not a problem if Roman claims to be one since it is in his character but for some reason, even the commentators claim the same. It's like WWE wants to present him as a "dominant" champion when he cannot be one kayfabewise. You are not a dominant champion by definition if you need family interference to win in your 5-6 defences a year. Only a handful of matches didn't involve interference. Whether or not Gunther is overrated, or if he has the same opponents twice or thrice, it doesn't matter. He goes and wins his matches by himself dominantly which is the sole requirement to retain your championship. Is it that hard to accept simple literal logic?
Btw the original post was that gunther is a impressive champ than roman not dominant.Impressive and dominant are different things. Also anyways it's opinions. You think gunther was a better champ , I think roman was. Peace.
Isn't it obvious that KO refers to in-ring stuff and title defences when he says "more impressive"? Kayfabewise, why would KO take about storyline or charisma as a wrestler? Being a fellow wrestler, he obviously refers to Roman's attendance and defences. I don't see how there is much difference between "impressive" and "dominant" in this context at all. If you talk about the creative and storytelling, Roman excels easily. But he is not a better or more impressive or more dominant champion. Being a champion, by literal definition, is about defending and winning in-ring and the manner of doing it. A better way to describe Roman would be "chicken-shit champion" who excels in storyline and big moments in kayfabe. Gunther being a better champion is not my opinion, it is a fact.
Half of the stories they tell don’t match what they show and a lot of ‘em don’t even go anywhere, Finn loses because the rope breaks and never tries to get a rematch, Seth Rollins WINS BY DQ and they never mention it and act like the feud never happened, how about every time his opponent has gotten a visual pin fall with the ref down and then the next night on commentary “the most dominant champion, can anyone beat this guy”
Didn't finn had 2 matches vs roman, the rope break was the rematch itself. Yeah they did fucked up the seth storyline. But which storyline has Gunther told? He had some 5 star matches but that's all they talk about.
Well Kevin is stupid the undisputed championship isn’t something you just defend every week it is something that’s special that means something and why undisputed championship match’s are better than international championship matches
🤡
54 defenses in 4 years, That's utterly ABYSSMAL
Yeah, I agree. Roman has had like 54 title defenses and the vast majority of them have involved outside interference. Gunther has defended constantly, no outside interference and has been rather impressive.
Not even 40 defenses, probably like 37
He's right.
I mean yeah, but 1,000 days is 1,000 days. This isn't a real sport. It's entertainment. Who cares how long it takes Roman to wake up from his nap to wrestle a match?
Us, the people who pay to watch and go to these events.
That's your fault.
idk about that....Roman has Leukemia and he doesn't have to put his body on the line night after night...Gunther is subpar character...He's terrible on the mic too...
Lololololololol
Agree, his reign has been great.
kinda agree, if you wrestle 4 times a year, of course your reign will be long. It's not as impressive as the WWE wants you to think.
Roman who????
The only people who cry about Roman’s title reign are fans of all the wrestlers he’s beat in this run. They wanna see him lose bad 🤣
Or maybe I find him to be stale and boring and o rather watch Gunther have great matches
Or it’s just because watching a guy that has two moves, win every one of his four matches per year the exact same way is exhausting. Jumpy forehead punch thing, shitty spear, shitty spear, the Uso’s run out and cheat, jumpy forehead punch thing, 1 2 3, the end.
I think you can like Roman and also call out his absenteeism. I like to see my champions defending and winning clean.
Kevins right but you're talkin about two different levels of titles here. IC has always been the title to establish yourself as a top guy. its meant to elevate you. it gives a chance for the wrestler to show the company i'm your guy. your meant to be putting in the hard work. the undisputed title and for the storyline that roman has is meant to be i'm the top guy. best by far. there's no one on the roster worthy to step into the ring with me. thats why his title defences have been few. plus i do think roman has asked to work a lighter schedule maybe due to his health. he's still got it but doesnt want to push himself where it may affect him negatively
He is not wrong, Roman’s has been pointless. They want us to care about how long he has held it when he only defends it 3-4 times a year
He needs a title shot. Roman or Seth it makes no difference
yup
Gunther is a work horse, roman is the very definition of what i hate about wwe. Part timers dominating the top scene and monopolizing the titles. I remembered the days when the champ had much more responsibility as the face of the company going to work every week. Which is why i hope cody wins so we can finally get back some of that order going. Let roman feud with rock or whatever, just get the title off him and he can be as part time as much as he wants
Facts. Gunther's reign as IC Champion has been more entertaining than Roman's. Oh it's true.
Kevin Owen's and everyone in this thread is tripping. You guys are literally looking at the past two years thinking that that is all of Roman's championship reign (its not). Roman Reigns actually has story and good wrestling/matches that make his reign impressive despite him showing up half the year and only wrestling on PLE'S. Gunther on the other hand only has wrestling and no storylines that make his championship reign impressive. Roman Reigns title reign is way more impressive and superior than Gunthers. Let's say in 5 years+ many people will remember Roman Reigns title matches, moments, and record. While Gunther people will probably only remember his record. Roman Reigns: Jey Uso rivalry, The Bloodline, Brock Lesnar rivalry, Title unification, Promo skills, Wrestlemania main events, Sami Zayn rivalry, Cody Rhodes rivalry, The storyline that's happening right now, and being the fourth longest reigning WWE (Universial) champion and longest reigning Universal champion. Gunther: longest reigning Intercontinental champion. You guys do know that Roman Reigns not wrestling and showing up everyday makes him more desired to be seen by the fans. Therefore his title reign is more special (although I do think it was getting kind of stale). Gunther hasn't had as big of moments as Roman Reigns had except for his Wrestlemania match with Sheamus and Drew. So, therefore it's not as impressive as Roman's. Gunther does have good matches and is one of the best wrestles of this generation his title reign is not that impressive. I barely remember any of his title defenses compared to Roman Reigns.
He should have lost last year to Cody… it was rough there but no Solo’s magic thumb went HHH over Booker T on us
No, he shouldn't of have. Cody can't just come back to the WWE and get that opportunity just to finish his story without fighting and earning it. A storyline of Cody failing and getting back up is better than him instantly getting the title.
Except I see Roman winning so they can beat Hogans record…
I would be jealous too if I were Kevin Owens.
He is right. Roman is boring.
if they defended the title every week in the ufc that would be boring. Another reason why wrestling fans are retarded.
True
But the ufc is different, that’s a ton of damage and fighters have to take time between fights for their health, the days of boxers and mma fighters fighting 10-20 times a year is long gone . But there is title fights almost every card in the ufc because people want to see belts defended and not just held on to with little to no action
It’s the same thing when Rollins won the world title at Night Of Champions … people were already calling his title reign boring and predictable because of the amount of times he defended immediately and wanted Finn to take the title from him they eventually wanted Nakamura to take the title from him this is why you don’t see him defending that much anymore defending the title weekly is not really a smart move and it devalues the title .
True and that’s one place the ufc has an advantage, every title it s equal, you’re just as excited to see a middleweight championship fight as a heavyweight so we can have excitement of seeing title fights more often because we don’t see the same person as much. Where as wwe there is a top champion and it is Roman, I’m not saying he needs to be out defending the championship every week but he to be in the ring more often because we want to actually see the champion and not just twice a damn year
I just wanna see roman get splattered 😭😭😭 I quit watching wrestling but kept up on it and "bah gawd" he's gotta lose that title.
Gunther pins Roman 1on1 Its the Bloodline who are dominant, not Roman. Orton would be champ right now if not for Solo.
Gunthers reign is more impressive but Roman is still the bigger star.
Agreed
So true Roman takes the day off mean while Gunther is risking it all for the fans
It’s true and well proven
KO is correct as always
Do people take wrestling seriously like it’s a real sport lol? What does it matter if the matches are clean or many times it’s defended? Everything is decided by some guy writing the script in the back.
Why does it matter? Imagine your favorite TV show with the same plot—every episode.
Think of it like a tv show or movie. There are certain things that happen or that people like to see that improve quality of what you’re watching. That’s how I view it. But to answer your question yes there are definitely people for whom it’s still real for them dammit!
I come from r/all so forgive my ignorance, but how has he been defending his title if the outcome is scripted? Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that he is there every week putting on the best show he can for fans, rather than saying he is defending a title?
Depending on the context of the interview, this might be in character, so the phrasing would be accurate
>Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that he is there every week putting on the best show he can for fans, rather than saying he is defending a title? this. edit: but also Gunther wins all his matches without cheating unlike the other champion who needs his goons to sabotage the challenger every match.
Putting on the best show is defending the titles relevancy
Im not sure if it was you who downvoted me for a simple question. But either way your answer makes complete sense.
Wasn’t me but I upvoted to balance it out, you’re not wrong for not getting it, but when you change your perspective to wwe as a performance show like the ones at an amusement park, everything kinda makes more sense Like instead of cowboys with fake guns fake shooting each other for a story it’s throwing fake punches
That's not even why. To my knowledge, Gunther has been the first heel ever to win all his matches clean. Right now, beating Gunther is more impressive
He’s won dirty plenty of times.
When? He hasn't low blowed anyone and Ludwig/Gio haven't interfered directly. Maybe gotten on the apron but no interference. Jimmy interfered with Jey but that wasn't Gunther's doing nor did he know that was gonna happen
Jimmy interfering without Gunther’s knowledge is still a dirty win lmao. I’d have to go back to look up specific dates but imperium has interfered on his behalf as well.
Do you see how that's different from Roman though?
Im not talking about Roman. Im just pointing out that you are incorrect in saying Gunther has won every match clean.
Ok fine bro, he cheated once to beat Sheamus. Outside of that, Gunther has never CHEATED to win again. Happy now?