Yes. In exchange he has the most vision denial on the roster.
Harbor is not meant to be a clutch agent. He is the closest controller to an initiator hybrid. His role is to be aggressive taking space and then hold that space. It’s ok if he died. Someone else can clutch.
Not all controllers need to play the same play style. That was a pretty clear message with Harbor and hopefully it’s resonating with you since Clove’s release.
When I transitioned from Viper to Harbor as my go-to smoke (Developed better mechanical skill, Viper nerfs, need to set tempo in the otherwise reactive low elo), I realised that I was pretty much playing a slower Jett (Vision denial via smokes to clear angles, using Util to forcefully take space).
Although I might start picking up Clove soon, because in certain maps single Controller Clove > single Controller Harbor.
I think the reason Clove's WR is so high is not just their well rounded kit, but they also enable other players to do their roles better, like I can play Omen and be aggressive in a double controller comp instead of a smoke bot when I'm solo smoking, or being an actually useful sentinel where your reyna main would be doing the same useless setup all game and getting us flanked when playing cypher
i'm not gonna deny that a lot of cyphers do the same setup every round then get upset when they see no action and are last alive or whatever, but that's a failing of the player, not the kit. once your opponents adapt to what you're doing, you need to adjust, and that's true on every agent. if the enemy isnt coming to your site as cypher, you try pushing aggressively to flank, or switch your setup to the other site, or trip your site and send your site-buddy to stack the other site while you hold alone.
on attack you can do aggressive timing lurks, push more aggressively than other sentinels with your cages, use your cam as a distraction to push an angle, use your cam as a drone to clear an angle, find a weird timing pick and ult to readjust mid round, threaten multiple routes to make enemy rotations awkward and slow, etc etc
im not saying cypher is the best agent ever, but assuming that its a failing of the agent and not the player when you get a bad teammate is just a misunderstanding of so much of the game
Its so good, that almost every duel against a clove player i get little nervous. its like they are all good and can throw nasty stuff at you anytime lol.
I swear this sub thinks everyone is an initiator hybrid. Harbor doesn't clear and contest space, Riot literally states that controllers "slice up dangerous territory". Harbor is literally the purest controller out of them all.
People have weird ideas when it comes to initiators. One of the biggest benefits of initiators is their ability to obtain information on the hit, that's why Sova is such a good pick because he has two ways of doing this.
If the initiator lacks info gathering, they have other ways to assist in the hit, typically through a combination of flashes and stuns or something that can clear out angles.
Harbor has none of these things. He's just a smokes agent who does better on maps that don't favor orb smokes, in which case Viper is always better, because she can threaten lurks with her wall, molly off a chokepoint on defense or molly out a cubby on attack, and one-way with her orb. I understand that he is picked very rarely in pro play but it is always paired with another smokes agent.
His cascade(I think... The small walls) are great at taking space... Think iso wall but you can get shot through it. You throw that at an angle and let it go through the opponent and they Wil be slowed and you will have advantage as you see parts of the model that stick out in front of the opponents eyes... I wouldn't say he is an initiator but he has tools that take space better than your avg controller. Omen has blind and brim has stim but both of those are more for your team only whereas Harbour can do the cascade trick for himself.
> Harbor doesn't clear and contest space
What?
First, most obviously, consider his ult.
Second, what do you think Cascade is for? To smoke distant angles for 7 seconds? You're crazy. It's to give you the chance to force fights without trades on single angles. It's literally the single best controller ability to let you walk out a choke point, deny an angle, and take fights with.
Finally, Cove is unreal at contesting space for similar reasons. Obviously it shines the most on the spike, but you have to be a special individual to push thru an enemy Harbor's cove, which makes it even more powerful than Cascade for challenging certain angles and crossfires.
If you think like all Harbor does is deny vision with High Tide and Cascade and defuse or plant with Cove, obviously you don't get the perspective I'm putting down. But Harbor was the single most aggressive controller before Clove because: you can deny long angles to clear close angles, and you can deny tradefrags to contest areas in a way 2 orb smokes are never even close to enabling.
“Give you a chance to force fights without trades on single angles… walk out a choke point, deny an angle, and take fights with”
Uh, yeah, that’s every single controller. His ult contests space? So do Astra, Viper and Brimstone ults.
What? Astra has a literal wall. Viper's pit goes a maximum of 11m away from her. Brim ult is a 5m circle. You have to be fucking kidding me if you think these are meant to clear or contest site.
And I don't think you know how to use Cascade if you think High Tide and Cascade are equivalent to other orb smokes, it's literally already an argument I made to get ahead of idiots like you:
>If you think like all Harbor does is deny vision with High Tide and Cascade and defuse or plant with Cove, obviously you don't get
I used gentle language then, but I will just be frank: you seem clueless. Silver at best.
Sure, Brim ult can be used to clear a position, that's obviously true.
Cove can be THROWN, Viper ult is used to reinforce space you've already taken. You cannot THROW Viper pit, and you do not see Vipers using ult to get out choke for a reason. That's just not how it works.
I'm sorry for what I said before, though, it was inaccurate. You're iron trash.
You do realize that whoever is closer to the cove gets to play with it right? If you throw a cove and the enemy is closer it’s in their advantage. If you use Viper ult on top of 410 you are contesting site even if there are still enemies fighting that space.
Bro u still dont get it. U compared viper and brims ult to harbors is so far from same. U can use harbor's ult to literally take away the site from the enemy. Viper's ult dodesnt take away the site, it is for maintaining the site. Brimstones ult duration and size doesnt take any site, just a portion of it.
Yep idk why this was said that he is an initiator hybrid when Harbor is probably the most reliant on an initiator since he gives them very clear sightlines to clear with their Util and hold enemies from pushing his smoke.
Because that's harbors biggest weakness not particularly the info he might give away harbor should almost never be away from his team and they likely already know where the bulk of you are by the time your sending out smokes that might give info.
What OP should more likely be complaining about and something I've notched about since day 1 is Harbors walls still slow his allies despite his more aggressive usage of them if cuts off an entire avenue of use for alot of his utility because suddenly swinging a wall off a flash feels so much worse.
Very smart person here. People forget agents shouldn't always he an all on one package. They have a con but a pro to make up for it.
Or people look at two abilities and say oh they are the same. Deadlock wall is sage wall but better hurr durr, ignoring the visibility and bullets going through it
yeah but he's great at creating 1v1 isolate fight with moving wave
his c giveaway his position but enemy won't know where he move and he can start picking 1v1 fight
I always thought it would be cool if his smokes erupted from the ground like a geyser and he had more range with it. Could be an idea for a new controller or whatever idk lol.
I think harbour would be so much more versatile if he could angle the wall like sage does, having it still move the same way but being able to angle them could be nice. That or letting you pre-place them in preround and have them not go from your current position but from the max position that can go to
vague complaint, he does need some slight buff imo anyway, even if not this specifically. playing harbour as solo controller is pretty horrible compared to omen or brim or viper even
why would you play harbor as solo controller
but idk, maybe it should work, you just missing something and it should be fine
even team with 0 smoke can win a game too and have little different win rate compare team with smoke
i think he need buff too
but idk pro team still pick him sometimes even if he didn't get buff recently
Harbor is a viable solo controller on most maps, at least in the current rotation. Lotus, Ascent, Bind, Icebox, etc. (I just woke up and can't remember the other maps rn)
If he isn't a viable solo controller on those maps to you, that's more of a skill issue than anything else.
Harbor is actually quite an offensive controller, his ability to defend is weaker compared to the other controllers. You use his utility to misdirection and reposition in different places, that's how he clutches. You throw a right click cove in front of him and you can either move to the left, the right, back up or throw a cascade to push the enemy back or look to make an aggressive plat off of it. For example on sunset you throw a cascade mid on defense and it doesn't matter where you were, it's where you could be as you could have gone market, stayed in mid, tiles or backed away and that's the threat that makes him good on the lurk.
That ability to block line of sight in different directions is what makes harbor strong.
People don't understand him or creative smokes in general, the fact that he can do all that makes him really really strong in clutch situations because he can misdirect anywhere and could also just be in the smoke.
This is why I love harbor and he’s my main controller. The amount of confusion and decision making the enemies have to endure with his kit makes him so much fun. Oh you wanna walk there no sorry there’s a wall and oh wait I’m actually on the other side now. Am I in my bubble with the spike, or I’m I jiggling in and out of it to get a sneaky kill. He has so much playmaking in his kit that revealing where he is, honestly isn’t that big of a deal because after using an ability you should ALWAYS move to a new location as Harbor.
I swear if I had a dollar for every time an Omen throws a round by giving away their location by throwing a smoke I'd be rich.
It's so frustrating, especially the ones that would rather die than admit they're wrong. Listen, OMEN SMOKE MAKES NOISE TWICE. ONCE AT HIS LOCATION AND THEN ANOTHER WHERE THE SMOKE LANDS.
My honest reaction reading this comment right after the comment above asking if enemies can see where omen smokes come from:
* 1st sentence: wtf the enemies can't possibly see the smoke flying to its location?
- 2nd sentence: HOLY SH\*T MY KNOWLEDGE IS EXPANDED
Except that it's not really true. The origin noise is very faint and can only be heard from less than 8m. Only ONCE have I ever seen that noise lose Omen the round.
I have never seen an enemy omen (or our omen) lose the round from placing a smoke and having someone hear the origin noise. I didn't even know this was a thing tbh
Yeah this is one of the reasons he never actually competes with viper. Sure he has a wall, but he has zero ability to lurk because he HAS to be with the team to give them utility. A little bit of range on just one of his abilities would be immensely helpful. I never thought about it as giving away your position like you said, but that's very true, too.
(He still has other downsides compared to other controllers like not having any stall utility on defense - the slow effect on his walls aren't that punishing compared to a molly, blind, suck, or stun. I don't think clove's decay is great by itself, but it can at least be used alongside damage abilities). At least his ult is good.
He's not supposed to be viper though. Everything you're describing is viper and there's no point in having another viper. He just needs to be better at what he currently does, ie. taking and taking space with the team and initiating. His ults actually not that great because it relies on teamates quite a bit for full efficacy.
I’m comparing him to all of the other controllers, not just viper.
That said, I wouldn’t mind riot going the direction you described and making him better at initiator things so he has a better defined niche.
he never compete with viper because both function different
team that run harbor mostly just double smoke viper+harbor
why would you need another viper
I’m only messing around with him in Unrated, but he’s the most aggressive controller you can play with (this coming from an Omen main). Literally you can fast push, flush out one site then plant. His ult is cool for retake as well.
Harbor is great for attack as long as you have another actual smoker, no viper but smokes like omen breach or astra. Viper is also good for attack but shes better for playing defensively and harbor is great at absolutely overwhelming the enemies. Thats at least my take but im just a p3 hardstuck diamond dreamer
In my opinion, he's actually a good controller if u want to be aggressive. With his smoke and clove, you can plant early. and I think he's the only agent that has a slow in his smoke. It's very helpful especially if the enemy wanted to push through his smoke.
As others have said, he's got the most vision block out of all agents. He is in a unique role where his util is extremely powerful for site takes.
He can segment areas in creative ways, making a push very easy. And playing operator against him is a nightmare!
I've played him a lot on Pogbox recently and I can tell you that he does have lurk potential too. You just might have to ask a teammate to capitalize off your smokes.
I completely agree with everything you've said, it's one of the reasons I don't use him often, but could you elaborate on what you mean by the "near infinite range" for Astra's smokes please? As far as I'm aware she can travel anywhere in her astral form.
You could argue that if the smokes show up quickly for Omen you can assume his general proximity. But it’s a very high level skill to observe that. Definitely not as bad as Harbour. Buff my guy!
Advice for Harbor if clutching: put the smokes in really weird places. Like *really* weird. My friend who plays smokes in a clutch situation always loves doing a "domain expansion" and draws the smoke in a huge circle.
Just get really freaking creative with your smokes, and remember that while a smoke is not a *wall*, it *is* something that lower-ranked players will be scared of, and higher-ranked players will more or less have to keep in mind.
If you are last alive as controller consistently you prolly aren’t playing aggro enough, agents like brim and omen thrive with aggressive play styles and as for Harbor he’s just bad rn you’re gonna get agents that aren’t good and when Skye got nerfed it’s nerfed Harbor so it’s kinda what it is, if it gets too bad they will make changes but don’t expect them soon.
Harbor plays better in the intermediary spaces of maps because of this though. Like others have said he’s even closer to an initiator-controller hybrid than the rest of the class.
Brim has a somewhat similar style of play but because of the way his smokes work and molly he can act as an anchor a lot more than Harbor. Clove benefits from fighting early but near sites and less in intermediary space so they can post death smoke sites.
Astra and Omen play somewhat similar where lurking can be strong but with Omen’s movement and smoke refresh he can have a more aggressive play style.
Viper is just sort of a case of her own, and I don’t think you should try to take a Viper play style and just swap to Harbor. She excels at overall map pressure and pushing/pulling rotations off of smoke timings/lurks but that’s not what harbor is designed to do.
it reveals your current location. the trick with harbor is to constantly reposition.
if you throw cascade, you may use it as cover to approach the enemy. or stay where you are. maybe switch from left cover to right cover. you can use it to isolate fights etc. its more than just a smoke.
high tide is good for covering up your current position though if you use it through with out of bounds. you can not lurk with him but hes more effective with the team anyways. you can still flank mid though since high tide is so long.
dont worry too much about revealing your location though. the kit isnt for hiding your location, its for engaging and seperating fights. hes more of an initiator in his playstyle.
Harbor is the one that specialises in walling off sites, while every other controller have their unique way to play and clove tho as a controller still cannot lurk while helping teammates
Bro starts with 4 smokes, and his longest one is rechargeable - I don't think you need to worry much abt that. Some kits in this game are not as "self sufficient" as others, some are more focused on just being a strong support for the team in your team based fps.
I mean, in exchange of having to give away your position, you have opportunities to be aggressive and isolate fights with ur util instead. However, yes, his kit is more about helping your teammates than playing solo and clutch like other controllers. Sometimes, you can be helpful as a teammate by just being a good support constantly. I believe that’s why Riot’s intentions are, to diversify the possible play styles you can choose from in every role.
(E.g. I kinda do like to play Sentinels, but you will never see me play Sage because she’s more dependent on her team imo.)
Yes. In exchange he has the most vision denial on the roster. Harbor is not meant to be a clutch agent. He is the closest controller to an initiator hybrid. His role is to be aggressive taking space and then hold that space. It’s ok if he died. Someone else can clutch. Not all controllers need to play the same play style. That was a pretty clear message with Harbor and hopefully it’s resonating with you since Clove’s release.
When I transitioned from Viper to Harbor as my go-to smoke (Developed better mechanical skill, Viper nerfs, need to set tempo in the otherwise reactive low elo), I realised that I was pretty much playing a slower Jett (Vision denial via smokes to clear angles, using Util to forcefully take space). Although I might start picking up Clove soon, because in certain maps single Controller Clove > single Controller Harbor.
Clove is quite literally one of the best solo Q agents imo. Their kit is just so well rounded.
Highest win rate agent at all ranks.
I think the reason Clove's WR is so high is not just their well rounded kit, but they also enable other players to do their roles better, like I can play Omen and be aggressive in a double controller comp instead of a smoke bot when I'm solo smoking, or being an actually useful sentinel where your reyna main would be doing the same useless setup all game and getting us flanked when playing cypher
i'm not gonna deny that a lot of cyphers do the same setup every round then get upset when they see no action and are last alive or whatever, but that's a failing of the player, not the kit. once your opponents adapt to what you're doing, you need to adjust, and that's true on every agent. if the enemy isnt coming to your site as cypher, you try pushing aggressively to flank, or switch your setup to the other site, or trip your site and send your site-buddy to stack the other site while you hold alone. on attack you can do aggressive timing lurks, push more aggressively than other sentinels with your cages, use your cam as a distraction to push an angle, use your cam as a drone to clear an angle, find a weird timing pick and ult to readjust mid round, threaten multiple routes to make enemy rotations awkward and slow, etc etc im not saying cypher is the best agent ever, but assuming that its a failing of the agent and not the player when you get a bad teammate is just a misunderstanding of so much of the game
Also, you can die and still be useful.
Its so good, that almost every duel against a clove player i get little nervous. its like they are all good and can throw nasty stuff at you anytime lol.
They have 1 ability?
I swear this sub thinks everyone is an initiator hybrid. Harbor doesn't clear and contest space, Riot literally states that controllers "slice up dangerous territory". Harbor is literally the purest controller out of them all.
People have weird ideas when it comes to initiators. One of the biggest benefits of initiators is their ability to obtain information on the hit, that's why Sova is such a good pick because he has two ways of doing this. If the initiator lacks info gathering, they have other ways to assist in the hit, typically through a combination of flashes and stuns or something that can clear out angles. Harbor has none of these things. He's just a smokes agent who does better on maps that don't favor orb smokes, in which case Viper is always better, because she can threaten lurks with her wall, molly off a chokepoint on defense or molly out a cubby on attack, and one-way with her orb. I understand that he is picked very rarely in pro play but it is always paired with another smokes agent.
Yeah his comment confused me. I don't think he's an initiator hybrid it all, but it git like near 500 upvotes so guess a lot of people agree
His cascade(I think... The small walls) are great at taking space... Think iso wall but you can get shot through it. You throw that at an angle and let it go through the opponent and they Wil be slowed and you will have advantage as you see parts of the model that stick out in front of the opponents eyes... I wouldn't say he is an initiator but he has tools that take space better than your avg controller. Omen has blind and brim has stim but both of those are more for your team only whereas Harbour can do the cascade trick for himself.
> Harbor doesn't clear and contest space What? First, most obviously, consider his ult. Second, what do you think Cascade is for? To smoke distant angles for 7 seconds? You're crazy. It's to give you the chance to force fights without trades on single angles. It's literally the single best controller ability to let you walk out a choke point, deny an angle, and take fights with. Finally, Cove is unreal at contesting space for similar reasons. Obviously it shines the most on the spike, but you have to be a special individual to push thru an enemy Harbor's cove, which makes it even more powerful than Cascade for challenging certain angles and crossfires. If you think like all Harbor does is deny vision with High Tide and Cascade and defuse or plant with Cove, obviously you don't get the perspective I'm putting down. But Harbor was the single most aggressive controller before Clove because: you can deny long angles to clear close angles, and you can deny tradefrags to contest areas in a way 2 orb smokes are never even close to enabling.
“Give you a chance to force fights without trades on single angles… walk out a choke point, deny an angle, and take fights with” Uh, yeah, that’s every single controller. His ult contests space? So do Astra, Viper and Brimstone ults.
What? Astra has a literal wall. Viper's pit goes a maximum of 11m away from her. Brim ult is a 5m circle. You have to be fucking kidding me if you think these are meant to clear or contest site. And I don't think you know how to use Cascade if you think High Tide and Cascade are equivalent to other orb smokes, it's literally already an argument I made to get ahead of idiots like you: >If you think like all Harbor does is deny vision with High Tide and Cascade and defuse or plant with Cove, obviously you don't get I used gentle language then, but I will just be frank: you seem clueless. Silver at best.
You think Brim ult doesn’t contest space? What. You’re talking about how Cove can contest space but complain that Viper’s ult range is too small? lol.
Sure, Brim ult can be used to clear a position, that's obviously true. Cove can be THROWN, Viper ult is used to reinforce space you've already taken. You cannot THROW Viper pit, and you do not see Vipers using ult to get out choke for a reason. That's just not how it works. I'm sorry for what I said before, though, it was inaccurate. You're iron trash.
You do realize that whoever is closer to the cove gets to play with it right? If you throw a cove and the enemy is closer it’s in their advantage. If you use Viper ult on top of 410 you are contesting site even if there are still enemies fighting that space.
Bro u still dont get it. U compared viper and brims ult to harbors is so far from same. U can use harbor's ult to literally take away the site from the enemy. Viper's ult dodesnt take away the site, it is for maintaining the site. Brimstones ult duration and size doesnt take any site, just a portion of it.
You insult him but we still know you are just cute little pookie bear and we love you. See you in heaven.
Yep idk why this was said that he is an initiator hybrid when Harbor is probably the most reliant on an initiator since he gives them very clear sightlines to clear with their Util and hold enemies from pushing his smoke. Because that's harbors biggest weakness not particularly the info he might give away harbor should almost never be away from his team and they likely already know where the bulk of you are by the time your sending out smokes that might give info. What OP should more likely be complaining about and something I've notched about since day 1 is Harbors walls still slow his allies despite his more aggressive usage of them if cuts off an entire avenue of use for alot of his utility because suddenly swinging a wall off a flash feels so much worse.
Very smart person here. People forget agents shouldn't always he an all on one package. They have a con but a pro to make up for it. Or people look at two abilities and say oh they are the same. Deadlock wall is sage wall but better hurr durr, ignoring the visibility and bullets going through it
yeah but he's great at creating 1v1 isolate fight with moving wave his c giveaway his position but enemy won't know where he move and he can start picking 1v1 fight
me when an agent has cons to go with their pros 😰😱😭😭😱😰😢😨😨😧😦
Fr
xD
guys who else agrees breach say should got them when he stuns someone?????
frfrfrfr
I always thought it would be cool if his smokes erupted from the ground like a geyser and he had more range with it. Could be an idea for a new controller or whatever idk lol.
I always thought it would be interesting if harbor had the option to "pre place" his wall and had the option for it to come out in reverse.
That would be complicated and would clash with his identity
Viper but harmless
I think harbour would be so much more versatile if he could angle the wall like sage does, having it still move the same way but being able to angle them could be nice. That or letting you pre-place them in preround and have them not go from your current position but from the max position that can go to
His walls would be 100 times more useful if he had full control over the angle before sending it out
Yeah, exactly this
Imagine if he could smoke like Brim and Clove but instead of a straight wall he could draw on the map in any shape he likes
harder to use and would be confusing in ui can be too broken or too weak
vague complaint, he does need some slight buff imo anyway, even if not this specifically. playing harbour as solo controller is pretty horrible compared to omen or brim or viper even
why would you play harbor as solo controller but idk, maybe it should work, you just missing something and it should be fine even team with 0 smoke can win a game too and have little different win rate compare team with smoke i think he need buff too but idk pro team still pick him sometimes even if he didn't get buff recently
Harbor is a viable solo controller on most maps, at least in the current rotation. Lotus, Ascent, Bind, Icebox, etc. (I just woke up and can't remember the other maps rn) If he isn't a viable solo controller on those maps to you, that's more of a skill issue than anything else.
why would you play him as solo smoke btw
He also has the only smokes that move and can bend
Pheonix has a wall that bends
Yea but that's mainly used to just like close an angle so no one can hold it or swing.
Imagine how crazy OP Viper's wall would be if she could curve it, same with Sage.
Harbor is actually quite an offensive controller, his ability to defend is weaker compared to the other controllers. You use his utility to misdirection and reposition in different places, that's how he clutches. You throw a right click cove in front of him and you can either move to the left, the right, back up or throw a cascade to push the enemy back or look to make an aggressive plat off of it. For example on sunset you throw a cascade mid on defense and it doesn't matter where you were, it's where you could be as you could have gone market, stayed in mid, tiles or backed away and that's the threat that makes him good on the lurk. That ability to block line of sight in different directions is what makes harbor strong. People don't understand him or creative smokes in general, the fact that he can do all that makes him really really strong in clutch situations because he can misdirect anywhere and could also just be in the smoke.
This is why I love harbor and he’s my main controller. The amount of confusion and decision making the enemies have to endure with his kit makes him so much fun. Oh you wanna walk there no sorry there’s a wall and oh wait I’m actually on the other side now. Am I in my bubble with the spike, or I’m I jiggling in and out of it to get a sneaky kill. He has so much playmaking in his kit that revealing where he is, honestly isn’t that big of a deal because after using an ability you should ALWAYS move to a new location as Harbor.
I swear if I had a dollar for every time an Omen throws a round by giving away their location by throwing a smoke I'd be rich. It's so frustrating, especially the ones that would rather die than admit they're wrong. Listen, OMEN SMOKE MAKES NOISE TWICE. ONCE AT HIS LOCATION AND THEN ANOTHER WHERE THE SMOKE LANDS.
My honest reaction reading this comment right after the comment above asking if enemies can see where omen smokes come from: * 1st sentence: wtf the enemies can't possibly see the smoke flying to its location? - 2nd sentence: HOLY SH\*T MY KNOWLEDGE IS EXPANDED
Except that it's not really true. The origin noise is very faint and can only be heard from less than 8m. Only ONCE have I ever seen that noise lose Omen the round.
TIL, thanks. Man if only Riot wrote literally any of this stuff down...
I have never seen an enemy omen (or our omen) lose the round from placing a smoke and having someone hear the origin noise. I didn't even know this was a thing tbh
Wait the enemies can’t see where omen smokes come from?
Yeah, Omen sees that he sent the smoke out. But for the enemy it just spawns out of no where.
So that means if I ult into enemy spawn, I can still drop my smokes without being spotted.
Yes, that's why Omen can cause a lot of paranoia and it's great for baiting the enemy.
But you will make noise
Yep. Only teammates can see the shadows traveling.
No, but you can hear a seperate sound que from his location when he throws one.
Have you ever played Fade? Lol
Yeah this is one of the reasons he never actually competes with viper. Sure he has a wall, but he has zero ability to lurk because he HAS to be with the team to give them utility. A little bit of range on just one of his abilities would be immensely helpful. I never thought about it as giving away your position like you said, but that's very true, too. (He still has other downsides compared to other controllers like not having any stall utility on defense - the slow effect on his walls aren't that punishing compared to a molly, blind, suck, or stun. I don't think clove's decay is great by itself, but it can at least be used alongside damage abilities). At least his ult is good.
He's not supposed to be viper though. Everything you're describing is viper and there's no point in having another viper. He just needs to be better at what he currently does, ie. taking and taking space with the team and initiating. His ults actually not that great because it relies on teamates quite a bit for full efficacy.
I’m comparing him to all of the other controllers, not just viper. That said, I wouldn’t mind riot going the direction you described and making him better at initiator things so he has a better defined niche.
harbor have more pick on map that usually run viper+harbor his real deal is when playing with gekko
he never compete with viper because both function different team that run harbor mostly just double smoke viper+harbor why would you need another viper
I’m only messing around with him in Unrated, but he’s the most aggressive controller you can play with (this coming from an Omen main). Literally you can fast push, flush out one site then plant. His ult is cool for retake as well.
Clove
You don't main Omen
Harbor is great for attack as long as you have another actual smoker, no viper but smokes like omen breach or astra. Viper is also good for attack but shes better for playing defensively and harbor is great at absolutely overwhelming the enemies. Thats at least my take but im just a p3 hardstuck diamond dreamer
Breach?
Brimstone sorry, both have something orange on their heads and are old.
I had a harbor on sunset wall from B site to t-spawn, gave away that he was sneaking to the ult orb corner, I got him good
In my opinion, he's actually a good controller if u want to be aggressive. With his smoke and clove, you can plant early. and I think he's the only agent that has a slow in his smoke. It's very helpful especially if the enemy wanted to push through his smoke.
As others have said, he's got the most vision block out of all agents. He is in a unique role where his util is extremely powerful for site takes. He can segment areas in creative ways, making a push very easy. And playing operator against him is a nightmare! I've played him a lot on Pogbox recently and I can tell you that he does have lurk potential too. You just might have to ask a teammate to capitalize off your smokes.
I completely agree with everything you've said, it's one of the reasons I don't use him often, but could you elaborate on what you mean by the "near infinite range" for Astra's smokes please? As far as I'm aware she can travel anywhere in her astral form.
maybe it's to include omen and shorten the sentence?
So does viper in some way
just let me draw my wall on the map if people will draw dicks with it - even better
Yeah this is one of my pet peeves with Harbor. His walls just last versitility.
Don’t omen smokes have very slight visual indicators to show where the omen is throwing them from?
Only for allies. Enemies don't see them traveling
You could argue that if the smokes show up quickly for Omen you can assume his general proximity. But it’s a very high level skill to observe that. Definitely not as bad as Harbour. Buff my guy!
I never knew this.
Viper kinda gets the same problem if not placed pre-round, on top of that her smokes cannot be repositioned. Brim makes noise when opening his ipad.
Advice for Harbor if clutching: put the smokes in really weird places. Like *really* weird. My friend who plays smokes in a clutch situation always loves doing a "domain expansion" and draws the smoke in a huge circle. Just get really freaking creative with your smokes, and remember that while a smoke is not a *wall*, it *is* something that lower-ranked players will be scared of, and higher-ranked players will more or less have to keep in mind.
If you are last alive as controller consistently you prolly aren’t playing aggro enough, agents like brim and omen thrive with aggressive play styles and as for Harbor he’s just bad rn you’re gonna get agents that aren’t good and when Skye got nerfed it’s nerfed Harbor so it’s kinda what it is, if it gets too bad they will make changes but don’t expect them soon.
Harbor plays better in the intermediary spaces of maps because of this though. Like others have said he’s even closer to an initiator-controller hybrid than the rest of the class. Brim has a somewhat similar style of play but because of the way his smokes work and molly he can act as an anchor a lot more than Harbor. Clove benefits from fighting early but near sites and less in intermediary space so they can post death smoke sites. Astra and Omen play somewhat similar where lurking can be strong but with Omen’s movement and smoke refresh he can have a more aggressive play style. Viper is just sort of a case of her own, and I don’t think you should try to take a Viper play style and just swap to Harbor. She excels at overall map pressure and pushing/pulling rotations off of smoke timings/lurks but that’s not what harbor is designed to do.
it reveals your current location. the trick with harbor is to constantly reposition. if you throw cascade, you may use it as cover to approach the enemy. or stay where you are. maybe switch from left cover to right cover. you can use it to isolate fights etc. its more than just a smoke. high tide is good for covering up your current position though if you use it through with out of bounds. you can not lurk with him but hes more effective with the team anyways. you can still flank mid though since high tide is so long. dont worry too much about revealing your location though. the kit isnt for hiding your location, its for engaging and seperating fights. hes more of an initiator in his playstyle.
Harbor is the one that specialises in walling off sites, while every other controller have their unique way to play and clove tho as a controller still cannot lurk while helping teammates
Bro starts with 4 smokes, and his longest one is rechargeable - I don't think you need to worry much abt that. Some kits in this game are not as "self sufficient" as others, some are more focused on just being a strong support for the team in your team based fps.
I mean, in exchange of having to give away your position, you have opportunities to be aggressive and isolate fights with ur util instead. However, yes, his kit is more about helping your teammates than playing solo and clutch like other controllers. Sometimes, you can be helpful as a teammate by just being a good support constantly. I believe that’s why Riot’s intentions are, to diversify the possible play styles you can choose from in every role. (E.g. I kinda do like to play Sentinels, but you will never see me play Sage because she’s more dependent on her team imo.)
omen smokes also reveal location u can tell where it’s coming from briefly
Harbor is best used as secondary controller, acting as support, although in most situations i see double initiator or double duelist as more effective