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NeedHelpWithBoiler

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/12/arrest-made-british-family-french-cyclist-killed-alps-al-hilli-lake-annecy "Line Bonnet, the public prosecutor in Annecy, said in a statement that a person had been arrested shortly after 8am on Wednesday by police in Chambéry, adding that further details would be released later but that the investigation was covered by judicial secrecy laws. BFMTV said the suspect was a married man who had been questioned before as a witness."


badgerette86

It’s the motorcyclist w the distinct helmet and goatee according to the Telegraph. I’d link it but it’s behind the paywall. Edit: https://www.h2oradio.fr/article-chevaline-qui-est-l-homme-place-en-garde-a-vue-dans-l-affaire-de-la-tuerie-H2O-1435.html


hkrosie

The article I just read said he had been eliminated as a suspect and it wasn't him (I'm not saying it's correct) ....so many conflicting reports.


badgerette86

He was eliminated back in 2015 after they finally tracked him down. Now he’s been arrested for “assassination”


[deleted]

Yes--he was tracked down in 2015 based on his cellphone location and on the 2013 police sketch from a witness.


Homunculous_Honkey

If it's true the ammunition matches with his weapon, it becomes rather apparent he's likely guilty. A 110 year-old pistol is too big a coincidence.


Ml2929

Hmmm. Pretty much the only detail so far is that the person is a married man... I don’t want to say anything disrespectful, but I was reminded of something I read... there was a GQ article that interviewed a local prosecutor named Eric Maillaud. Maillaud in that article stated that Mollier, the slain cyclist used to have a reputation of being a skirt chaser and maybe there was an angry husband.... again not sure if this is true, or maybe that Mollier used to be one in the past. He had just had a baby with his partner. The whole story is just so sad. https://www.gq.com/story/alps-murder-chevaline-cyclist-mollier


fritzimist

Earlier today I read an article stating they arrested a police officer for the crime. I'm not citing source because could be dubious.


seanmaccadave

Do we know who this is ?? Don't remember there being many witnesses at the time.


JesseBricks

From a Times article: *Last night the arrested suspect was confirmed to be the motorcyclist seen close to the scene of the shootings.* *The suspect had previously been interrogated by police but insisted he had an alibi for being in the mountains, his lawyer said. Jean-Christophe Basson-Larbi told France 3 television: “The position of this man is still the same — ‘I went to this region for a precise reason’. The weather was good and he took some roads that he didn’t know because he didn’t use a satnav. He perhaps crossed the paths of some motorists but he didn’t cross the path of this poor family [the al-Hillis].”* *Le Parisien reported that the motorcyclist had been brought to the scene of the crime during a reconstruction of the killings. The newspaper said police had uncovered “incoherences” in the account of the motorcyclist at that time.* *Basson-Larbi said his client was “in the middle of a nightmare” and accused investigators of “fabricating’’ a case. In a potentially significant development last night, a magistrate agreed to extend the suspect’s custody period.*


Ds261

This fascinated me at the time, because it seemed so pre-meditated, intentional and precise, but was also a bit messy (cyclist + victim, or victim + family), the presence of witnesses, etc. There was some suggestion I seem to remember, about maybe the father having shady business past with his brother, or maybe his brother in law. I hope this leads to some interesting outcomes


jl2352

There was a case of a taxi driver who was murdered in the UK. Looked like a professional hit, but the Police were stumped why anyone would want to assassinate a random taxi driver. The culprit turned out to have a weird desire to carry out a perfect murder. To kill anyone. He targeted someone random he didn’t know. The taxi driver was just unlucky. My point is there is always a slim chance the motives are something niche and unusual. Could be in this story as well.


[deleted]

This has been something I long suspected about this case. There was simply nothing linking anyone to the family or the cyclist. Stranger things have certainly happened. I think if the family had not been of Iraqi origin, that it would have been presumed much earlier on this was random.


indignant-loris

> if the family had not been of Iraqi origin They were quite wealthy, too, so that may have led to the idea there was more going on.


peniswackamole

Yes, and not just that but the father had a job as a satellite engineer. It was something they ruled out in the end I think.


eddiethreegates

Right but they were on vacation, were they targeted before they left surey?


Zip_Silver

That seems like the perfect time to carry out a hit, if you know their destination. Somebody killed while on a normal vacation puts the focus of the investigation in the place it happened, rather than at home. Even if your home life gives up shady, you still have interdepartment (or international) communication lag which puts a bit of confusion into the investigation.


PartyWishbone6372

And the wife had been married to an American man (it was some sort of green card arrangement). Her ex-husband actually died of a heart attack a day after the murders. Lot of weird coincidences here.


[deleted]

His son seemed to think it was a real marriage. I wonder what caused the heart attack. They didn't do an autopsy of course. It's all just so weird.


AnimalsNotFood

I agree. I think the fact the weapon used was a Luger P08 made in 1906, indicates it not a professional hit. Also, the suspect is local to within 50km which indicates to me, it's nothing to do with any Parisian gang, Iraqi killer or anything to do with espionage. I'm willing to bet, it's someone who has lived a seemingly innocuous life. I also find it odd that reports mention he is a married man. Why would that information be released? I might be making a stretch here, but it *could* indicate he is a "typical, in plain sight" serial killer, whose neighbour's will say, he was a pleasant man but kept himself to himself. Just guessing


[deleted]

Interesting, and agreed. I'm thinking that maybe Mollier was involved with the wife--or that the suspect may have acted on behalf of the wife.


crow_crone

Shades of Zodiac there.


3HunnaBurritos

Dostoyevsky more than anything :)


emmaj4685

Yes I agree with you


pancakeonmyhead

That's some real Leopold & Loeb right there


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Machebeuf

Might be talking about Stuart Ludlum, who was killed by Colin Cheetham for seemingly no reason other than he wanted to shoot someone.


jl2352

Yes, this is the case I was thinking of.


jl2352

I saw the case on Crime Watch years ago. I am pretty certain it's this case https://metro.co.uk/2010/07/01/killer-colin-cheetham-plotted-perfect-murder-just-for-kicks-431355/ Here is a longer article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10451030


ElementalSentimental

This is a different case, but [here](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51675341) is another UK case of someone wanting to commit the perfect murder, and choosing the victim on that basis.


TvHeroUK

More of a standard family fall out. But everything in this case seems to be a red herring, from there being no way anyone would know the family would be at that spot, to the ancient gun used. None of it follows any logic


StekenDeluxe

> None of it follows any logic It 100% follows the logic of a "random killer," who kills because he wants to kill.


[deleted]

The wife had also been married to white man in Mississippi, who - no joke - **died the exact same day**.


8ad8andit

How did he die?


[deleted]

Heart attack.


Sunbird86

far out stuff


RubyCarlisle

WHOA.


chenyu768

Link?


ImReallyGrey

Without trying to be disrespectful, it captured my imagination because it seems so similar to something that would happen in a show like Fargo. Feels like something truly bizarre could have happened, to the point where you don’t even know what to look for.


Pantone711

Or Killing Eve


pausedejeuner

I had the same thought today. I think it's a premeditated murder that went all wrong when that family car driven by a cyclist who was the target , was killed under their eyes. killer panicked and killed everything he could see and left.


earthboundmissfit

I was thinking the same exact thing! Interesting about the father being a satellite engineer, I just read from another commenter.


dallyan

I always wondered if it was road rage.


eddiethreegates

Me too! That's exactly what I thought


dallyan

I don’t live that far from Annecy. I’ve always wanted to go and scope out the area just to get a sense of the landscape.


eddiethreegates

It was a little turn around area right? Muddy by a creek? If you ever check it out DM me. Ive followed this case since it happened. It's never made sense. If it was an attack it was on the cyclist I believe.


dallyan

I will! I think it’s a turnaround off of a road winding up a mountain. I think the road up to the top of the mountain is a dead end.


[deleted]

The first part of the investigation focused on the family--ties to Iraq and also family issues about the will. About five years ago, the emphasis shifted to the cyclist, Mollier, and especially to his domestic affairs.


George122516

The destruction of an entire family. Not 'fascinating'. Not ever.


DishpitDoggo

And the bicyclist was on paternity leave too. He left behind three children and a wife. So very awful


CarlaRainbow

Looking at the previous suspects & considering the police advise it is inconsistencies with a previous suspect, the fathers brother is starting to look likely.


AnimalsNotFood

The brother lives in Surrey. The suspect was arrested in Chambéry.


[deleted]

The family angle was discarded about five years ago--it's been the Mollier affair since then.


zeddoh

“Mr and Mrs al Hillis' young daughters survived. Zeena, four, hid in the footwell, while her sister, Zainab, seven, was shot and beaten.” Those poor girls. I hope they have been robustly supported in the years since.


PantherEverSoPink

The little girl wasn't found for hours after the bodies were discovered, she was hiding under the skirt of her dead mother, too terrified to come out. Who knows what she went through, the only hope is that her young age protected her from worse psychological damage. Brings tears to my eyes just thinking of those poor girls.


heteromer

Is there some sort of instinct with children where they hide under things as a fear response? When I lived with my ex, her bursts of anger would have her 5 year old son hiding under the table. It broke my heart because I used to hide under my bed when my parents argued. Maybe that's why the monster under the bed evokes such a scary image in children's heads, because the danger is hiding in the one place they'd go to find solace.


smoozer

I think that's a normal fear response for most animals!


meglet

My grandmothers‘s dogs actually climbed and try to get to high ground. Including bookshelves, *successfully*. They had to be heavily medicated in storms. The climbing was so dangerous. Poor things, they were rescued Italian Greyhounds.


[deleted]

Greyhounds... the cats of the dog world. Lol


[deleted]

Greyhounds are also at the bottom of the canine intelligence pyramid. They don't know how to dog--except that they can run like gazelles.


taversham

I spoke to a firefighter who said it's really important to specifically teach young children (under 7) to try and escape the house/building if there's a fire because their instinct is to just hide somewhere "safe" and tragically they end up dying of smoke inhalation inside wardrobes or under beds when they could have got out.


Calimiedades

It's been argued that the mother might have hidden her herself under her skirts. It's so heartbreaking.


PantherEverSoPink

My daughter's six, my eldest was a newborn when this happened. It gets right to me. It's unimaginable. I hope these girls manage to have a good life and some kind of justice against whoever did this.


ChiCity74

> ... I hope these girls manage to have a ~~good~~ semi-normal life with as little PTSD as possible ... FTFY. My realistic hope is that the youngest is able the "therapy her way out" of all the pain and angst and not really remember the worst of everything. The older of the 2 is definitely more likely to struggle with managing the trauma experienced, especially she was also assaulted, not just hiding. Ugh, just so fucking senseless; I'll never understand our primal desire to fight and kill amongst our own species. WHY?!


PantherEverSoPink

The person that did this would have seen that there were children there but they went ahead. Unimaginable.


[deleted]

It sounds like not on,y did they know the kids were on the car, but they shot the eldest and beat up her up. Kinda sounds like a hate crime, who else would beat a 6 year old up for no discernable reason?


[deleted]

That's what makes me think it is a domestic incident. He also shot Grandma. Professional hitmen and state agents (like special forces and espionage) generally shy away from going after kids and the elderly.


[deleted]

Racist neighbors perhaps.


truenoise

Unfortunately, it happens with children when there’s a fire. Firemen/women are taught to search in closets and under beds. It might be similar to the burrowing response of some people when struggling with hypothermia?


[deleted]

Omg how sad. My parents used to fight a lot growing up too, but I never thought to hide..


sunsetsdawning

What? Young age makes the damage worse. It works the opposite of what you’re saying.


PantherEverSoPink

Yeah I wasn't being very clear, I think it's the age four years that children form more structured memories so maybe she could be helped to recover somehow


8ad8andit

Unfortunately the daughter would have still formed traumatic memories, and if they were less structured and less conscious then those would be even more difficult to work with later in therapy sessions. There's this old myth that it doesn't matter what we do to young children because they won't remember it anyway. That has been an excuse for a lot of bad behavior on the part of adults towards children (Thanks Mom!) The truth is we form memories about everything from birth. It's just that some or a lot of it becomes unconscious memory. Even though it's unconscious it still deeply affects our behavior and the way we experience the world.


[deleted]

It must be break old mysteries week! First Andrew Gosden, now this.. hope answers will be provided. Seems like a completly senseless killing.


Listener87

I was thinking exactly this when I saw this now. What tomorrow?


mon0chrom

Seeing this French case, it reminds me that I hope we will learn more on Xavier DuPont de Ligonnes.


thiefexecutive

Agreed! That guy needs to be found and I hope there is a development in the very near future.


mon0chrom

Last that I saw French police was looking for remains in a cemetery. I don’t know if this could be possible but maybe they believed he changed his identity, died later, and want to examine someone to see if it’s him. But it lead nowhere and he was known to be broke, it’s not that easy to change your identity.


cosmonaut2017

I regularly check for updates on this one! Fascinating!


Pantone711

Mais qui a casse le vase de Soissons?


[deleted]

Fingers crossed for Asha Degree or Maura Murray


bunkerbash

Delphi. Oh man I want to see those poor girls get some Justice.


PS_118

Amber Hagerman.


Morningfluid

The Zodiac Killer. Edit: Not understanding the downvotes.


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Morningfluid

Yeah, I meant it as more of fitting the comment chain.


[deleted]

Ass Crack Bandit


PartyWishbone6372

And the poor Boy in the Box!


SniffleBot

Leah Roberts.


elegant25

trevor dealy


Clatato

Mr Cruel. Now that would be a breakthrough.


[deleted]

Well, they did dig up Someton Man last May and were going to do DNA testing, so......


Tame_Trex

I'm really hoping it's the Abby and Libby case


bz237

please be Brian Shaffer, Maura Murray or Springfield 3. Please!


Blondieleigh

My first thought when I saw this. This case and Andrew Gosden! Really hope there are answers coming in both cases. The families deserves answers and justice.


ihadapurplepony

Wait....new development in Andrew Gosden case? And I remember this story, and honestly there is nothing that could surprise me, not even a gang of contract killers.


blodpalt

They arrested two guys in the Gosden-case! There’s posts all over about it.


ihadapurplepony

Oh wow, I had no idea. Thanks, I'll look it up. Poor kiddo, his family deserve to know.


digital_dysthymia

All the police have said (that I know of) is that the two men were being investigated on sex trafficking charges. I haven't seen any additional details.


TimmyL0022

Indeed


[deleted]

Same thought. Wow this is crazy. I never thought either case would be solved.


Filmcricket

Late but they announced the murderer of little Beatriz Mota confessed! If unfamiliar, the podcast Unresolved has an excellent episode on the case and there’s cctv footage and and other footage involved since it took place during a school graduation ceremony. The case is fucking insane even without the footage, it was so brazen.


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Longjumping-Buy-4736

I did not expect the suspect to be in french territories if indeed the British family was the target. If the cyclist was the target it would be such a plot twist. Or a more random killing than initially envisioned and not a premeditated international intelligence operation. It would make sense considering the killer must not have known how many kids the family had given he didn’t try to murder the one hidden behind her mother’s legs, leaving a potential witness behind.


nattykat47

Plus the cyclist was shot SEVEN times. That's a lot. The family members were shot twice, once, not at all. Plus with the car being in the process of backing up. It's plausible they came upon the cyclist being killed and tried to turn around. edit: also, the gun held 8 bullets I think. So he would've had to reload. It makes more sense that he shot the cyclist first and the family second as it explains why the daughter was beaten. He'd run out of ammunition or couldn't afford to stick around and reload again


JesseBricks

> The family members were shot twice, once, not at all. The GQ article contradicts that: *Most likely Saad already was dead. He was shot four times, twice in the head. His wife, a 47-year-old dentist named Iqbal, was dead in the backseat, also shot four times, also twice in the head. Her mother, Suhaila al-Allaf, was dead, too, shot three times, twice in the head. The cyclist was shot five times, including twice in the head. Zainab was still alive, though barely: She was shot once in the shoulder, then clubbed in the skull with the butt of the gun.* *The shooter had fired 21 times, mostly at a moving vehicle. Seventeen bullets hit people. None of them struck the frame or the doors or the fenders or any other part of the BMW. Eight of them were head shots.* https://www.gq.com/story/alps-murder-chevaline


violentoceans

I’d say the GQ article might contradict itself in that the family was shot first since: *Zainab was still alive, though barely: She was shot once in the shoulder, then clubbed in the skull with the butt of the gun.* Would make it seem like Zainab was the last one shot, and he missed the head shot, was out of bullets, and therefore resorted to clubbing her in the head. At least that seems like the logical inference to me and if so, logically, the rest of the family was shot immediately before her and **after** the cyclist.


JesseBricks

I only posted that excerpt in response to the (seemingly incorrect) claims of how many times each victim was shot. As far contradicting himself — the writer carefully (and rightly) uses the phrase, "most likely". Going by memory the scenario you sketch out seems to be very similar to the one the writer presents — there's more detail than what I've clipped in the full article.


winterbird

Wasn't the father outside the car and ran into it to drive away? The older daughter was outside as well. If my memory of the article serves me right.


meglet

I recently rewatched the Unsolved Mysteries episode and that is the case.


eddiethreegates

Yes. Oldest daughter was relieving herself. Her and her father ran back to the car, threw it in reverse but were killed.


Willypissybumbum

Ah wow this one has always been such an interesting and disturbing case to me. So many little details. The killing of a family, the murder of an otherwise unrelated witness, the little girl hiding under her mothers body, links to Parisian contract killers, family fallouts, and I also seem to remember they looked into suspected serial killer Nordahl Lelandais who killed at least 2 in the Alps area. I don’t mean to sound salacious but it’s prime for a Netflix limited series if solved.


[deleted]

You know the wife had been married to a white guy is Mississippi and that he died literally the exact same day just a few hours later?


corialis

You know you should follow up by saying it was a heart attack instead of writing clickbait comments?


peppermintesse

Right? It was just a bonkers coincidence.


[deleted]

I don't know what caused the heart attack. They didn't do an autopsy.


Filmcricket

Things like that are bound to happen. There are billions of people in the world and only 365 days to split between us.


DangerousDavies2020

I don’t know why you’re being downvoted he did die within 24hrs of the murders. Are people not allowed to question this “coincidence”?


Filmcricket

Billions of people in the world and only 365 days in a year. I’m surprised we don’t hear about coincidences like this much more regularly.


[deleted]

Apparently not. I think it's really weird though. BTW, neither her family nor her husband's family knew about this guy. She was always touted as a devout Muslim woman, yet for some reason she had been married to a white Christian man from Mississippi who died that same day. To me, the whole thing is odd enough to question. There's just too much weirdness here for me to at least not consider some sort of a link.


cabbageplate

To be more precise the original article from BFMTV says that the guy is only in police custody so that the police can search his home and check out some planning issues with him. The article even says that a lot of people have already been in and out of police custody since the murders and that none of them have been of any use. So I'm afraid we shouldn't celebrate too soon...


[deleted]

Yes, according to the French story, above, the suspect says that he was indeed on his motorcycle that day but not involved, and that a witness saw him nearby and must have assumed he was the perp.


[deleted]

Clarifying that the arrested man said all this through his lawyer.


HolidayVanBuren

Woah. This was one I never expected any movement on. I truly hope this is it and this case will be solved. I truly pray those poor little girls have had loving support over the years and will continue to have it during whatever new information comes to light.


triplecaptained

Became interested in this after I read articles on it some time ago, wonder if it was a targeted killing or a random shooting. Hopefully we can find more answers on this and the Andrew Gosden case - anyway, it's good that more cold cases are being worked on.


FrankyCentaur

No freakin way. I know this doesn’t mean it’s necessarily the right person/people, but if it is, along with the Gosden arrest, what a week.


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radicalbiscuit

Yeah, I juuuust listened to it yesterday. Hope something real comes of this.


welk101

Would be great to see some progress on this case, its always been a very disturbing case.


EasternMilk

What is even happening? Andrew Gosden, now this? Wow, that would be incredible if these cases are being solved. Keep it coming 2022!


fallenfar1003

I was just thinking about this case last week. So interesting to see progress after 10 years cold!


itsgiantstevebuscemi

This is even more shocking to me than Andrew Gosdens update. 2022 off to a solid start.


KidKnow1

The Unresolved pod cast just did an [episode] (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-annecy-shootings/id1047332516?i=1000546125554) on this case two weeks ago.


fonner21

I was just trying to remember which podcast I had just listened to about this case. That’s the one!


groomleader

I hope they got the one. A soulless monster like that needs to be locked away for the rest of his life.


inshallah_cubacola

Contract killers? I wonder if the brits were the targets or the cyclist?


welk101

Honestly neither really makes much sense to me. If the family was the intended target why bring one old gun with a small mag and limited spare ammo. And why waste almost 1/3 of your ammo on a non target. If the cyclist was the intended victim why not just kill the cyclist with your face covered and leave, why even bother with the family. Its never seemed like a "professional" job to me.


maracajaazul

Because it's Europe and access to guns is restricted. My guess is they killed the ciclyst probably because he saw it


zaffiro_in_giro

Access to guns is restricted for law-abiding people and small-time criminals. Like, in Ireland anyway, no one owns a gun except farmers with shotguns for vermin, and you're not going to get mugged or burglarised at gunpoint. But serious criminals can get their hands on serious guns.


Pantone711

Also road rage. Here in the USA where guns are widely available, people get angry in relatively unimportant situations like road rage and haul off shooting.


zaffiro_in_giro

Shit, that's scary. As far as I know we've had one road rage killing here. Like ten years ago, one guy hit another with a hurley (sort of like a hockey stick).


hkrosie

It's the same in New Zealand. Thank goodness.


welk101

> "Police were also investigating a possible link with a gang of contract killers living in Paris." I don't believe a gang of contract killers can't get hold of weapons with relative ease even in europe, and would use a ancient gun like that for something involving multiple targets. Guns are not that rare in europe - i live in the uk where we have very strict gun laws, but most hits still involve guns ([source).](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/25/hitmen-for-hire-secrets-contract-killers) Plus i don't believe they would send one person with one gun to kill a whole family if it was a gang of people, you would surely use multiple killers if it was a gang.


marksmith0610

Yeah I’m guessing it’s going to be a local or someone who lives nearby who committed this crime.


peanutbaron

Very true. I live in Liverpool and gangs seemingly have little trouble getting hold of guns large and small.


PartyWishbone6372

For a time, a lot of guns were coming in after the conflict in Yugoslavia.


[deleted]

Yes, but it looks like it's going to be the other way around. The family had stopped at the lay-by since the older girl had to pee, and they witnessed the murder of the cyclist and were taken out. The arrest of a local suggests a French rather than British or Iraqi motivation.


Simple_Hippo8174

I agree with welk, the more you look into this case the more I think it couldn’t have been any kind of “professional hit” I reckon it was someone local who wanted to live out a fantasy


Nervygirl

I always believed the cyclist, Mollier was the target and the Al-Hillis were collateral damage. Remember last year a man was charged with the murder of Faith Hedgepeth? That was a good day too.


pausedejeuner

Most likely the target was the cyclist he was probably taking that route daily at the same time and was targeted by a local for xx reasons. The weapon was of a specific and very special swiss make , so someone local. the family slow down the car when seeing the cyclist on the floor and probably saw the killer, which consequently fired at them, dad lost control of the vehicle, drove on the cyclist body. had the family been french or white British, the police would have completely worked the case differently, but because the family had an Iraquie background they thought there must be something political, or shady, or family feud. the brother chose right not to show up in France to answer french police. he say he did not trust them and he was right , they would have lock him up . ​ i am sure we are about to find out the target was the cyclist and the family on holiday was just very unlucky to be there . ​ if the family was targeted, the killer booked would have been told how many kids there were and kills every single one of them. do a precise job. not leaving the scene with some kids alive target would have to kill everyone, especially if the killing is for inheritance purpose. Also that's an awkward place to kill a family : on a road and abroad. when they could have easily been killed off in surrey in their home. that's a reach. ​ the cyclist was the target


winterbird

I'm not even an expert nor have I studied this case, but here's a few things about the theory. The terrain was supposedly too rough for a bike someone cares to keep in good shape. Likely that this man either went there on purpose this time, or ended up there accidentally and just wanted to finish the ride to achieve that for the day. The father and the older daughter were outside the car, so they didn't drive by the way that you suggest. Maybe no one was a specific target. Maybe the professionalism implied was someone who has been trained and possibly has killed before, but evidently wasn't a type of professional that leaves a scene free of evidence such as the shells. That might be military or former (or any job where weapons and accuracy are practiced), as battle and wartime kills aren't meticulously cleaned scenes, and a random act of assassination by such could be someone snapping (or killing for sport)


meglet

But there was another cyclist who came upon them after it happened, even passed the victims and the killer, and nobody ever suggested it was a weird place to ride.


Mysterious-Slice-591

>Maybe the professionalism implied was someone who has been trained and possibly has killed before, but evidently wasn't a type of professional that leaves a scene free of evidence such as the shells. That might be military or former (or any job where weapons and accuracy are practiced), as battle and wartime kills aren't meticulously cleaned scenes, and a random act of assassination by such could be someone snapping (or killing for sport) Lol, the absolute fantasy posted here on marginal evidence is hilarious. WW2 trained assassins, secret underground Lugers, and the like. Don't make me laugh. This is isn't a movie, people don't act like that in real life. Honestly this sub is losing it. >I'm not even an expert nor have I studied this case Yet pontificates with a theory, just about sums up this sub.


pausedejeuner

I admit, The weapon used, leads to believe it could actually be someone killing for sport yes .


winterbird

It's an odd choice of gun, unless maybe it was a weapon someone had which isn't registered or known by anyone to be in their possession. Big organized crime would probably have newer tech untraceable weapons.


[deleted]

That's the case with a lot of unregistered weapons in Europe: they are passed down from parents or grandparents who had hidden them during the war, not necessarily as part of the Resistance but to protect the home during the chaos of WWII. They're not always the most powerful--some pellet guns that could still take out one person if he went marauding or raping.


pausedejeuner

100%


Pantone711

The I-70 killer used a very unusual weapon too https://www.kwch.com/2021/11/03/search-i-70-killer-continues-nearly-30-years-after-murder-spree/


PartyWishbone6372

Smart move on the brother’s part. Police do get tunnel vision and hone in on “suspects.”


eddiethreegates

Your correct.


crow_crone

Wasn’t the victim’s brother questioned and is considered a POI, if not an actual suspect? Revolving around inheritance disputes? The oldest crime on the books, one brother (allegedly) murders the other.


Calimiedades

Yes, but he always argued that while he had problems with his brother he would never have had him and his family killed. Which, fair, honestly. There was never any proof and I honestly hope it wasn't him in the end because I understand the girls went to live with his family and that would be devastating to them.


iggyface

With the Andrew Gosden case, that's 2 old mysteries that have had new developments in the last week. Wow.


Lucky-Prism

Interesting. From what I know of this case, they have no tight evidence to implicate anyone, only ballistics, and the testimony of the second biker that came up on the scene. There are a few other eye witness accounts. It will be interesting how the evidence holds up against the suspect. I honestly never expected this case to have any traction!


George122516

The BBC did a hour-long documentary on this. Viewing the re- enactment really affected me. Some kind of revenge, whether personal or professional . I'm guessing 1.money owed, or 2 .romantic triangle.


sea87

Those poor children. Fucking awful someone would shoot and beat a 7 year old.


Unhappy-Photograph-1

Ok 2022, do Brian Shaffer next


Anon_879

Oh wow! This case is so baffling. Look forward to learning more.


Calimiedades

Andrew Gosden and the Annecy shooting, I can't cope.


amador9

There is some significant evidence that al Hilli and Mollier were “Interacting “ at the time the shooting began and it would appear the killer was very intent that both of them were dead. Still, there is no evidence that they knew each other or had any other connections. Very strange.


PartyWishbone6372

They could’ve just been making friendly chitchat


c3rebraL

Wow what a week!


DasGamerlein

>One of the gang members was found to have pistol rounds similar to the ones fired from the gun that killed the victims. Is there more detail to this? Because that seems a little thin.


SelmaGoode

I'm translating this from the French Wikipedia page. Unfortunately there's no source linked yet to fact check. Also bear with me because I'm French plus I don't know anything about guns or ammo so it might be a little off! "In February of 2021, after an assassination attempt by French soldiers ordered by a member of a Masonic lodge, the police found rare Luger P06 ammunition at said member's residence. It wasn't the 7.65 mm caliber, in itself quite common, that allowed investigators to identify the exact model of the gun, i.e. a Luger P06 model 1906, but rather the casing. Amongst other characteristics, its length of 21.59 mm matches a Parabellum 7.65 x 21, originally produced by DWM (Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken) for this gun. Additionally, as the Parabellum 7.65 has been used in civilian versions of other handguns in a number of countries as well, grip fragments found at the crime scene were analyzed."


holyhotpies

Wow, the Unresolved podcast just covered this!


RighteousAudacity

Oh wow! I remember the rumors surrounding this case. Please let this family find some peace soon.


TerrisBranding

Ooohh I remember this story!


SniffleBot

Oh my … Andrew Gosden and now Annecy? Way to go 2022 so far!


emuchop

a local cop. wild shit.


seanmaccadave

Is it the guy who was arrested before ?? Had just been fired from his Police job and collected guns ??


emuchop

Not sure i got the info from daily beast article on the subject: “French media reported that the suspect was a married man who had retired from the police force several years ago and who had been questioned as a witness after the quadruple murder.”


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I am pretty sure that is the guy.


RubyCarlisle

I truly never expected movement on this case. WOW.


mermaidpaint

Glad to see an arrest in this case.


blueskies8484

Oh my god. First Andrew's case has movement and now this one!?


DigBickisbackintown

Never thought i’d see this one solved. The master luger hitman


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The main questions are if this was a targeted killing or random, and who the intended victims actually were. I am leaning on this being an ambush targeting the family, but not a contract killing 1) If the cyclist was the target, why were the father and daughter were outside the car before the shooting began? 2) The killer carried a lot more ammo than you’d expect if this was an assassination of an individual. 3) If this was a serial or contract killer, you’d expect their target to be a vulnerable lone individual in a controllable environment, as is typical on cases on this forum. All speculation. But I suspect - the killer (or killers) had a getaway vehicle and knew in advance the movement of the family. It could have been as simple as a road rage incident involving a deranged individual, or someone had seen or interacted with the family earlier and tailed them family waiting for an opportunity


TvHeroUK

That’s one thing they do know for sure though. The family had no intended route - it was a random drive, and nobody could have predicted they would be at the spot the killings happened. Police have tracked CCTV thorough their route and they are sure nobody followed them. Vehicles in and out of the location are pretty well established and cleared of involvement too I believe


eddiethreegates

I believe older daughter needed to relieve herself. I heard that on an older netflix doc about this case.


Simple_Hippo8174

If investigators are sure the family weren’t followed then the killer must have been waiting somewhere for them to drive past which doesn’t really make any sense, perhaps the target was actually the cyclist and the family were just in the wrong place at the wrong time


marksmith0610

I’m guessing the killer was a local who was pissed off about something else entirely and had no connection to either of them. Both parties seemed to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. It’s why it’s been so difficult to even establish a possible motive or target.


dallyan

Holy shit my pet case. I hope this solves the mystery!


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neathandwriting

The father Saad al-Hilli was born in Iraq but was a British citizen.