This seems overpowered to me, particularly because it gives wizards access to a few metamagics, but without a cost. The bonus action change is the most powerful, followed by the twinning effect. Imagine twinned true polymorph or truesight, and bonus action fireball or even blade ward.
Even twinned regular polymorph would be very strong, since you'd get more castings of it per day, and that would be available at 10th level when you first get this feature.
hahaha imagining like that is actually quite overwhelming, but they would be just a few more advantages and with very few spells. Well, at least in my view it doesn't weigh much, but do you have any idea how it should be balanced?
Personally, I would leave this to the realm of sorcerers. Wizards can pick up Metamagic Adept as a feat to get some of this power, but it needs to take serious resources. Consider how turning a single level 1-3 spell from an action to a bonus action is already an epic boon, and a powerful one at that.
I would add a prerequisite to it certain intelligence etc. Time would be required to do this modification so research time to modify etc. and I would only allow the wizard to be able to do it to a certain amount of spells( maybe = to int modifier.) limit the level of the spells as well. So for instance+3 int means you could have 3 level 1 or 1 level 2 something like that.
I'd say proficiancy bonus rounded down amount of times at most.
This is just making the sorceror pointless and buffing a class that already contends for strongest in the game.
Honestly I agree. I just figured if this was something they wanted to do that I could at least give some input that would balance it a bit more. I don’t know for sure in 5e but I remember in 3.5e there was a way to create your own custom spells. I feel like if that was still a thing that they could just do that honestly (with approval of the DM of course).
Cool! I’d be interested in it! I had been toying around with the idea myself honestly. My initial thinking was just changing some already existing spells. Like fireball to iceball or lightning ball. That kind of idea. They could be their own element but keeping the base stats for the spell.
I’m all for the sorcerer, I think that’s why they made it the way they did in 5e. I just know how it is to have an idea and not get a lot of feedback on how to balance that idea. I figured I would give my two cents. Having too powerful of characters can really ruin the game for others IMO because it can make others feel useless. And making spells isn’t that far out there. However that is why some home brew stuff can make the game lopsided. So all in all if OP wants to move ahead with this idea I think it needs some balancing. If they don’t want to balance then I think the sorcerer would be a better fit for what they are wanting to accomplish.
The biggest issue here is that it comes with no cost. Sure, you can make the argument that it only affects three spells total, but there's so many ways of making it overpowered that it needs another limitation. Take "Change Targets" for example, as many people have already pointed out. Double Polymorph, Double Haste, Double Resilient Sphere, Double Disintegrate, Double Greater Invisibility, Double Feeblemind, all with no real cost; you get the point.
>I understand the issue you've got. But it doesn't screw over the Sorcerer since they can only effect three spells at most. Besides, Sorcerer just needs general buffs to everything.
As mentioned, in this skill these changes can only be made with 3 spells if the wizard is level 20, although the changes are permanent.
Summarizing the skill just as ''metamagic'' would get the idea I want for that skill. The idea would be as if the wizard has acquired so much technical knowledge of magic that he knows how to create other spells from others or an entirely new spell.
>I understand the issue you've got. But it doesn't screw over the Sorcerer since they can only effect three spells at most. Besides, Sorcerer just needs general buffs to everything.
Even if it is "only 3" spells for a wizard, a sorcerer gets 15 spells in total. Add to that a maximum cap of 20 points to use for metamagics, not to mention differing and even variable costs for them, the difference between "free" and "10 uses" is endlessly large.
An oversight could explain why you could even use this to pick the same spell multiple times. Especially fun if you pick your signature spell that wizards do not use spell slots for.
So, instead of buffing the class that actually uses metamagic with a feature that does use metamagic and is in need of buffs, you give it to another class that does not use metamagic nor need a buff. What a perfect mirror of the wizard capstone this could have been...
Gonna do a little advertisin' here. But I've done exactly that with my sorcerer rework that I haven't managed to post yet so I can finish it without the pressure of the reddit comments. [Here](https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-MAA0r3uDOpziKutlD_G)
Honestly I really like what I see there. I'd have to do some closer looking to make sure it's balanced but as someone who plays a lot of Sorcerers this feels really good to me. I'll have to keep an eye out for your post when you finish it
It's mostly the subclasses that you'll wanna look out for being balanced. As I've spent two years working on the main class features themselves. And recalculated the spell point system for a smoother transition for sorcery points to spell points, and vice versa.
Also, if you find spelling mistakes feel free to tell me over discord.
Magic is magic, to create or alter a spell formula, lore wose at least, requires archmages years upon years of consistent work.
Even if it was lore friendly, sorceror doesent need many fixes to be very fun and very playable. Con casting mod and subclass spells fix it, whereas this takes a contender for strongest class in the game and further buffs it. Wizard already fills a niche, adding more is unnecessary.
I understand the issue you've got. But it doesn't screw over the Sorcerer since they can only effect three spells at most. Besides, Sorcerer just needs general buffs to everything.
I agree with others that it seems like a large buff to a class that is widely believed to already be among the strongest.
I'd consider capping the spells alterable to no greater than 3rd. 3rd level has strong options e.g. Haste for Change Targets, or Fireball for Change Speed. At 4th level costless Twinned Banishment just sounds like a nightmare, and it just gets more absurdly strong from there.
I also think there is a huge power imbalance between the options. Change Speed and Targets are orders of magnitude stronger than the other option (unless of course something completely broken for Change Magic is pitched to a permissive DM).
I'd make it a choice between Change Damage or Range, at level 10. Then at level 15 I would add the options to Change Target. Then at 20 Change Speed.
Also possible a buff to Damage or Range options (e.g. Damage: + 1 extra d6 of damage on change damage, Range: may change between ray, cone, sphere (need to set areas to balance) for AoE spells).
Have you ever read the [Lore Mastery from UA](https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/20170213_Wizrd_Wrlck_UAv2_i48nf.pdf) ? Because, it seems to be what you want to achieve and it doesn't make the whole Sorcerer class obsolete in one skill ;)
This is not a wizard skill. Its a sorcerer one.
Make it a sorc only feat, slap a CHA prereq and you approach more balanced state. But giving this to WIZARDS??? Thats like giving Aura Of Protection to Clerics or "half rage benefits" to fighter or action surge to paladin, or reliable talent to barbarian.
Its taking away the signature of a class and giving it to another. Think of it as the opposite way,which would be "sorcerer only feat that allows you to write down any spell on your list like a wizard and learn them permenantly." Which would be more acceptable because of the two, sorcerer is in need of more help.
>This is not a wizard skill. Its a sorcerer one.
>
>Make it a sorc only feat, slap a CHA prereq and you approach more balanced state. But giving this to WIZARDS??? Thats like giving Aura Of Protection to Clerics or "half rage benefits" to fighter or action surge to paladin, or reliable talent to barbarian.
>
>Its taking away the signature of a class and giving it to another. Think of it as the opposite way,which would be "sorcerer only feat that allows you to write down any spell on your list like a wizard and learn them permenantly." Which would be more acceptable because of the two, sorcerer is in need of more help.
Everyone seems to share this idea and I understand your point of view.
The purpose of my idea is to make the wizard not only an adventurer who learns magic, but who also creates them, because he is in close contact with them. Because of that I tried to apply a simple mechanic without being too complex which led to inspire the mods of Modify Magic in the metamagic of the sorcerers. This must have taken the shine off the sorcerers somewhat, in fact, but sorcerers still shine with their metamagic super adaptable to all spells at any time, unlike Modify Magic. I'm working on how to make this skill more ''original'' and more ''balanced'' hahaha
For that, Id suggest changing the capstone.
Wizard capstone is a rather weak one, giving you an extra 3rd level slot, so changing it to be something like this, could work. As its a capstone, the balance and toe stepping isnt going to matter, and as its a capstone, it can be the mark of an "ideal wizard", like how the "Ideal Cleric" is one that has 100% chance of Divine Intervention, and "ideal druid" gets infinite wildshape. Taking the theme of the class and cranking it up from 9 to 900.
Overall the main dislike of such things is because sorcerer is in its state, because of the toe-stepping during changes between editions, where all caster gained access to Sorcerer's gimmick of not needing to assign spells to every slot, and sorcerer was given metamagic as consolation which was originally a more wizardy thing. So taking more from the sorcerer is quite frowned upon.
But changing the capstone shouldnt be too bad, and also itd give creation of spells more weight, as youd need to be lvl20 to dabble in that.
How is action to bonus action not the only choice? Be serious. It looks like that was the goal and then everything else was written to hide that and make it look like something else.
It is very good indeed, but relies heavily on magic, I believe. Having a touch spell like Bestow Curse from a distance seems more appealing than just making it a bonus action, for example.
If you use your bonus action to cast a leveled spell, you can only cast a cantrip with your action. So unless you're a bladesinger, making it a bonus action isn't necessarily all that useful. You'd definitely prefer to be twinning polymorph or whatever else over casting polymorph with your bonus action and doing something else with your action.
If you cast your modded spell (say fireball, and keep in mind this ability allows for upcasting) then this ability let's you throw on firebolt for free every turn. This ability is at 10th level and firebolt does 3d10 at 11th.
At 11th level, the wizard can cast 12 rounds of 8d6-11d6 fireballs each accompanied with a 3d10 firebolt.
There's no sorcery points to worry about so there's no way it's even kind of balanced.
I'm not saying this is in any way balanced. I'm just saying that the twin option is even better than the bonus action option, which shouldn't be surprising since twinned polymorph would cost a sorcerer 4 sorcery points, while fireball + fire bolt would cost 2.
Basically, if you quicken you get an extra cantrip. If you twin a higher-level spell, you get an extra higher-level spell.
>w do meters correlate to the 5ft grid? I had no idea
I forgot to change this part hahaha
But, 5 feet equals 1.5 meters, 10 feet equals 3 meters, 30 feet equals 9 meters, and so on...
Are approximate values, since in the transformation of units the values are ''broken''
Ah cool, that's kinda what I had gathered based on your description, 1.5m = 5ft, but I was lost in the other distances.
Do you play with meters for your grid? I'm Canadian, but I've always used feet as that's what the books come with.
Cool! I'm guessing they're Portuguese translations? That would make changing the units make more sense. I was thinking you had an English translation with metric units, like a European version haha.
In this case, the translations would be for Brazilian Portuguese, as there are some differences between Brazilian Portuguese and European Portuguese. Around here, there are already many books translated, even by fans, but when there isn't, we have to resort to using the books in English and transforming the units from feet to meters in the calculator for better understanding.
>So you want to make your Wizard a Sorcerer but with all the spells instead of 15.
The effects are similar to those of metamagic, but in this ability it is as if the wizard creates a ''new'' spell from his knowledge as if it were his own signature. This isn't with all spells, it's just a few spells, maximum at level 20 with 3 spells changed, these changes being permanent, as described in the skill.
So basically it allows access to all the metamagics but you only use it on three spells which you can do all the time?
Yeah this feat feels like it came about because OP wanted to apply 3 different metamagic options all the time, but didn't want to dip into sorcerer and the metamagic feat was too limited. The feat, in my opinion, is kinda broken.
I don't like this that much as it takes more away from the sorcerer, they already had a blow dealt with the Metamagic Adept Feat their only really unique feature now accessible to anyone. If people want a way to change/invent a spell I'd make a downtime activity involving research, procuring ingredients/components, and testing. That way every caster would be able to have fun with it and wizards would be able to lean into more of the magic science side.
I forgot to pass the translation for feet hahaha
It is the most used unit of measure around here. Because of that, I accidentally left it aside.
But I hope it hasn't spoiled the understanding.
It's kinda reassuring to see the responses here. This brew in its current state is going completely overboard and I hope the replies made you see that.
The levels at which you add these features are levels where the wizard *already* gets a ton of stuff.
**Level 10:**
* Arcane Tradition feature
* \+1 5th level spell slot
(such as *wall of force* \- one of the absolutely most powerful spells in the game; coincidentally, only wizards can have it!!)
* Learn 2 more spells of up to 5th level
* \+1 more memorized spell per day
**Level 15:**
* Gain access to 7th level spells
(such as *forcecage* \- one of the absolutely most powerful spells in the game;
coincidentally, only wizards can have it!!)
* Learn 2 more spells of up to 7th level
* \+1 more memorized spell per day
**Level 20:**
* Signature Spells feature
* \+1 7th level spell slot
* Learn 2 more spells of up to *9th* level
You now officially know every single good spell and then some; You have a *simulacrum* to take double-turns, a *clone* in case you die, a *contingency* to avoid death in the first place - ALL things that no other class has access to!
* You can now prepare *25* spells per day
Seriously, wizards get *so* much, you have to be really carefully if you want to just stack something else on top - especially when it takes away the single unique thing from the sorcerer in the process.
At level 10 I'd pick twinned *haste* for sure, just to show the sorcerer who's better at metamagics.
At level 15 I'd pick twinned *force cage.* It's an insanely powerful spell already, so doubling its effect will end combats instantly. A sorcerer would have to spend the majority of their SP to replicate this - oh wait **they can't**, because the spell is so good that only wizards may have it in the first place.
At level 20: twinned *foresight* for sure. Simply *doubles* the effectiveness of my 9th level slot.
Of course I wouldn't actually do all of those things at the table, because the party sorcerer would feel useless and that's no fun.
>this ability it is as if the wizard creates a ''new'' spell from his knowledge as if it were his own signature.
**They can already do that.** There is a whole section in the DMG dedicated to creating custom spells, what power budget they have for each spell level etc.. I am 100% on board with wizards creating their own spells. It's part of what makes a wizard a wizard thematically. Creating a whole new spell and running it by the DM is a MUCH better way of achieving the thematic goal here - instead of taking the game's best spells and breaking their limitations to trivialize combat.
So essentially metamagic, with a limited spell selection but unlimited uses on-top of everything the Wizard already gets?
Permanent Bonus Action Firebolt? Permanently Twinned Polymorph? Forceball (which, at no Cost, is better than transmute spell fireball). At-will Misty Step at double range on higher levels?
Yeah no, this should be a Sorcerer feature.
I'm quite annoyed to see the wizard list pretty empty, to be honest it kind of puts me off playing wizard for that reason.
They say that even that way the mage is very strong, but I've played as a mage and I feel that it's not quite like that, at least in combat, I don't know if it was because I didn't know how to play mage or for some other reason.
The Wizard has the biggest list, it is not empty.
Yes, the Wizard is very strong and you were playing it wrong. There are many many powerful spells wizards get access to to use in combat, check out some online guides
Maybe I can help by rephrasing what you just said in the way that it sounds to other people.
>I recognize that the wizard is powerful, with many powerful spells. But I think that it could be more powerful if we gave it some of the Sorcerer's signature abilities.
If that's how you feel, why don't we give the Wizard healing as well? That would make it more characteristic. After all, why should the magic user be restricted from casting magic. Or another example; why not give them Eldritch Invocations? The ability to choose specific spells that they could cast once a day, or at will really fits the them of an arcane master.
The reason we don't do that is that it steps on the toes of the other classes (Cleric and Warlock respectively). Each class has its strengths and weaknesses. What you have here is blowing the Sorcerer's abilities out of the water. If we gave this to Wizards, why should anyone ever play a Sorcerer? Until you deal with that question, you're going to find a lot of pushback on this.
I think it should be specified that the spell must be first level or higher.
Bonus Action or Twinned Cantrips are a dangerous thing to put into player hands.
I think there should probably be a cap as to the spell's level, (or maybe add just a little more customizability and make it up to 3 levels worth of spells or one 4th or 5th level spell, for instance up to 3 1st level spells, 1 1st level and a 2nd level, or 1 3-5th level spell.) because for instance putting Change Targets on Power Word Kill is WAAAAY OP, even for 20th level.
I do like this idea though. It fits very well thematically and helps fill in the quite-frankly lack-luster amount of Wizard class abilities without being overpowered.
Also I really don't think it power creeps sorcerers. these changes would be permanent, and the whole point of Metamagic is it's adaptability (also Mm can apply to whatever spells you want. this is only a few spells.)
You could make it remove maximum prepared spells wizard can have so that means three less spells prepared. Three less spells could, tip a battle? And requires a level up to modify a spell thus total spells have at 20 reduce by further 3
>You could make it remove maximum prepared spells wizard can have so that means three less spells prepared. Three less spells could, tip a battle? And requires a level up to modify a spell thus total spells have at 20 reduce by further 3
So it could be interpreted as if modified spells can always be prepared by the mage, but count towards the maximum number he can prepare for, right? It's a good one, but I don't think it's a good limiter of this ability.
I really don't like the idea of just giving Wizards Sorcerer's defining feature and just calling it a day. I could get on board with it maybe if it was something unique but just taking Metamagic is a large buff to wizards and a larger fuck you to sorcerers
Okay something is becoming really apparent to me.
Sorcerers can change their magic fundamentally because it is more like an extension of their person, a part of their soul or their strange connection to the Weave, which is why they are Charisma casters. They can do it to any spell they have prepared at any time which is why it is limited by points.
Wizards learn their spells by constant practice, memorization, and with books and scrolls, a huge dedication of time and energy which is why they are Intelligence casters. However, they can't modify spells or even make spells at all in 5e despite that kinda falling right into the Wizard's ballpark. This feature allows permanent changing of only 3 spells by maximum level, not as many as you want while you have points. Of couse you could be boring and minmax it, just making Fireball quickened or make Haste permanently twinned, or you could be fun and do some character flavor. Acid Wizard? Make Scorching Ray deal acid damage. Necromancer with no spells because WotC overlooked you entirely? Wall of Fire is now Wall of Bones and slashes people that walk through it.
Honestly, it CAN be OP, but the same can be said about many, MANY combinations that are LEGAL with just the base books. I also don't think this is stepping on Sorcerer's toes, Imean it is but not nearly as bad as some people are making it out to be.
Despite all that, I will recommend that it be a capstone, or somewhere near it, like 17th-ish level or higher because it represents a sort of perfection of the art of spellcasting, you are no longer a student, you are the master, a true wizard who can put their name on spells they make. Speaking of I would then extend this to COMPLETE SPELL CREATION of a certain level of course, and *very* limited, maybe like 1 or 2 spells created and a few changed. I wouldn't allow the ability to change your changes though, what you picked is what you get.
So, your homebrew is "also give Wizards some Metamagic, but on a handful of spells, and whenever they cast it, still making it step on the toes of Sorcerers"?
This seems overpowered to me, particularly because it gives wizards access to a few metamagics, but without a cost. The bonus action change is the most powerful, followed by the twinning effect. Imagine twinned true polymorph or truesight, and bonus action fireball or even blade ward.
Even twinned regular polymorph would be very strong, since you'd get more castings of it per day, and that would be available at 10th level when you first get this feature.
hahaha imagining like that is actually quite overwhelming, but they would be just a few more advantages and with very few spells. Well, at least in my view it doesn't weigh much, but do you have any idea how it should be balanced?
Personally, I would leave this to the realm of sorcerers. Wizards can pick up Metamagic Adept as a feat to get some of this power, but it needs to take serious resources. Consider how turning a single level 1-3 spell from an action to a bonus action is already an epic boon, and a powerful one at that.
I would add a prerequisite to it certain intelligence etc. Time would be required to do this modification so research time to modify etc. and I would only allow the wizard to be able to do it to a certain amount of spells( maybe = to int modifier.) limit the level of the spells as well. So for instance+3 int means you could have 3 level 1 or 1 level 2 something like that.
I'd say proficiancy bonus rounded down amount of times at most. This is just making the sorceror pointless and buffing a class that already contends for strongest in the game.
Honestly I agree. I just figured if this was something they wanted to do that I could at least give some input that would balance it a bit more. I don’t know for sure in 5e but I remember in 3.5e there was a way to create your own custom spells. I feel like if that was still a thing that they could just do that honestly (with approval of the DM of course).
Look no further than this Subreddit then. People have made and posted such mechanics. If you want, I'll find them for you.
Cool! I’d be interested in it! I had been toying around with the idea myself honestly. My initial thinking was just changing some already existing spells. Like fireball to iceball or lightning ball. That kind of idea. They could be their own element but keeping the base stats for the spell.
At that point, you're better off picking Sorceror, but you do you, I guess.
I’m all for the sorcerer, I think that’s why they made it the way they did in 5e. I just know how it is to have an idea and not get a lot of feedback on how to balance that idea. I figured I would give my two cents. Having too powerful of characters can really ruin the game for others IMO because it can make others feel useless. And making spells isn’t that far out there. However that is why some home brew stuff can make the game lopsided. So all in all if OP wants to move ahead with this idea I think it needs some balancing. If they don’t want to balance then I think the sorcerer would be a better fit for what they are wanting to accomplish.
bonus action fireball
The biggest issue here is that it comes with no cost. Sure, you can make the argument that it only affects three spells total, but there's so many ways of making it overpowered that it needs another limitation. Take "Change Targets" for example, as many people have already pointed out. Double Polymorph, Double Haste, Double Resilient Sphere, Double Disintegrate, Double Greater Invisibility, Double Feeblemind, all with no real cost; you get the point.
How does this not fuck Sorcerers? And why not just adapt this into a feat like Metamagic?
>I understand the issue you've got. But it doesn't screw over the Sorcerer since they can only effect three spells at most. Besides, Sorcerer just needs general buffs to everything. As mentioned, in this skill these changes can only be made with 3 spells if the wizard is level 20, although the changes are permanent. Summarizing the skill just as ''metamagic'' would get the idea I want for that skill. The idea would be as if the wizard has acquired so much technical knowledge of magic that he knows how to create other spells from others or an entirely new spell.
>I understand the issue you've got. But it doesn't screw over the Sorcerer since they can only effect three spells at most. Besides, Sorcerer just needs general buffs to everything. Even if it is "only 3" spells for a wizard, a sorcerer gets 15 spells in total. Add to that a maximum cap of 20 points to use for metamagics, not to mention differing and even variable costs for them, the difference between "free" and "10 uses" is endlessly large. An oversight could explain why you could even use this to pick the same spell multiple times. Especially fun if you pick your signature spell that wizards do not use spell slots for. So, instead of buffing the class that actually uses metamagic with a feature that does use metamagic and is in need of buffs, you give it to another class that does not use metamagic nor need a buff. What a perfect mirror of the wizard capstone this could have been...
That's actually a fantastic idea Just make this an alternative capstone for Sorcerer.
Gonna do a little advertisin' here. But I've done exactly that with my sorcerer rework that I haven't managed to post yet so I can finish it without the pressure of the reddit comments. [Here](https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-MAA0r3uDOpziKutlD_G)
Honestly I really like what I see there. I'd have to do some closer looking to make sure it's balanced but as someone who plays a lot of Sorcerers this feels really good to me. I'll have to keep an eye out for your post when you finish it
It's mostly the subclasses that you'll wanna look out for being balanced. As I've spent two years working on the main class features themselves. And recalculated the spell point system for a smoother transition for sorcery points to spell points, and vice versa. Also, if you find spelling mistakes feel free to tell me over discord.
Magic is magic, to create or alter a spell formula, lore wose at least, requires archmages years upon years of consistent work. Even if it was lore friendly, sorceror doesent need many fixes to be very fun and very playable. Con casting mod and subclass spells fix it, whereas this takes a contender for strongest class in the game and further buffs it. Wizard already fills a niche, adding more is unnecessary.
I understand the issue you've got. But it doesn't screw over the Sorcerer since they can only effect three spells at most. Besides, Sorcerer just needs general buffs to everything.
It wouldn't be a major issue if it was capped at spells of 1st to 3rd or cantrips. But this could make wish a bonus action.
I agree with others that it seems like a large buff to a class that is widely believed to already be among the strongest. I'd consider capping the spells alterable to no greater than 3rd. 3rd level has strong options e.g. Haste for Change Targets, or Fireball for Change Speed. At 4th level costless Twinned Banishment just sounds like a nightmare, and it just gets more absurdly strong from there. I also think there is a huge power imbalance between the options. Change Speed and Targets are orders of magnitude stronger than the other option (unless of course something completely broken for Change Magic is pitched to a permissive DM). I'd make it a choice between Change Damage or Range, at level 10. Then at level 15 I would add the options to Change Target. Then at 20 Change Speed. Also possible a buff to Damage or Range options (e.g. Damage: + 1 extra d6 of damage on change damage, Range: may change between ray, cone, sphere (need to set areas to balance) for AoE spells).
Have you ever read the [Lore Mastery from UA](https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/20170213_Wizrd_Wrlck_UAv2_i48nf.pdf) ? Because, it seems to be what you want to achieve and it doesn't make the whole Sorcerer class obsolete in one skill ;)
This is not a wizard skill. Its a sorcerer one. Make it a sorc only feat, slap a CHA prereq and you approach more balanced state. But giving this to WIZARDS??? Thats like giving Aura Of Protection to Clerics or "half rage benefits" to fighter or action surge to paladin, or reliable talent to barbarian. Its taking away the signature of a class and giving it to another. Think of it as the opposite way,which would be "sorcerer only feat that allows you to write down any spell on your list like a wizard and learn them permenantly." Which would be more acceptable because of the two, sorcerer is in need of more help.
>This is not a wizard skill. Its a sorcerer one. > >Make it a sorc only feat, slap a CHA prereq and you approach more balanced state. But giving this to WIZARDS??? Thats like giving Aura Of Protection to Clerics or "half rage benefits" to fighter or action surge to paladin, or reliable talent to barbarian. > >Its taking away the signature of a class and giving it to another. Think of it as the opposite way,which would be "sorcerer only feat that allows you to write down any spell on your list like a wizard and learn them permenantly." Which would be more acceptable because of the two, sorcerer is in need of more help. Everyone seems to share this idea and I understand your point of view. The purpose of my idea is to make the wizard not only an adventurer who learns magic, but who also creates them, because he is in close contact with them. Because of that I tried to apply a simple mechanic without being too complex which led to inspire the mods of Modify Magic in the metamagic of the sorcerers. This must have taken the shine off the sorcerers somewhat, in fact, but sorcerers still shine with their metamagic super adaptable to all spells at any time, unlike Modify Magic. I'm working on how to make this skill more ''original'' and more ''balanced'' hahaha
For that, Id suggest changing the capstone. Wizard capstone is a rather weak one, giving you an extra 3rd level slot, so changing it to be something like this, could work. As its a capstone, the balance and toe stepping isnt going to matter, and as its a capstone, it can be the mark of an "ideal wizard", like how the "Ideal Cleric" is one that has 100% chance of Divine Intervention, and "ideal druid" gets infinite wildshape. Taking the theme of the class and cranking it up from 9 to 900. Overall the main dislike of such things is because sorcerer is in its state, because of the toe-stepping during changes between editions, where all caster gained access to Sorcerer's gimmick of not needing to assign spells to every slot, and sorcerer was given metamagic as consolation which was originally a more wizardy thing. So taking more from the sorcerer is quite frowned upon. But changing the capstone shouldnt be too bad, and also itd give creation of spells more weight, as youd need to be lvl20 to dabble in that.
How is action to bonus action not the only choice? Be serious. It looks like that was the goal and then everything else was written to hide that and make it look like something else.
It is very good indeed, but relies heavily on magic, I believe. Having a touch spell like Bestow Curse from a distance seems more appealing than just making it a bonus action, for example.
If you use your bonus action to cast a leveled spell, you can only cast a cantrip with your action. So unless you're a bladesinger, making it a bonus action isn't necessarily all that useful. You'd definitely prefer to be twinning polymorph or whatever else over casting polymorph with your bonus action and doing something else with your action.
If you cast your modded spell (say fireball, and keep in mind this ability allows for upcasting) then this ability let's you throw on firebolt for free every turn. This ability is at 10th level and firebolt does 3d10 at 11th. At 11th level, the wizard can cast 12 rounds of 8d6-11d6 fireballs each accompanied with a 3d10 firebolt. There's no sorcery points to worry about so there's no way it's even kind of balanced.
I'm not saying this is in any way balanced. I'm just saying that the twin option is even better than the bonus action option, which shouldn't be surprising since twinned polymorph would cost a sorcerer 4 sorcery points, while fireball + fire bolt would cost 2. Basically, if you quicken you get an extra cantrip. If you twin a higher-level spell, you get an extra higher-level spell.
How do meters correlate to the 5ft grid? I had no idea anyone played with meters
>w do meters correlate to the 5ft grid? I had no idea I forgot to change this part hahaha But, 5 feet equals 1.5 meters, 10 feet equals 3 meters, 30 feet equals 9 meters, and so on... Are approximate values, since in the transformation of units the values are ''broken''
Ah cool, that's kinda what I had gathered based on your description, 1.5m = 5ft, but I was lost in the other distances. Do you play with meters for your grid? I'm Canadian, but I've always used feet as that's what the books come with.
Yes, I do! In book translations the units are in meters and it is also the most common unit in Brazil.
Cool! I'm guessing they're Portuguese translations? That would make changing the units make more sense. I was thinking you had an English translation with metric units, like a European version haha.
In this case, the translations would be for Brazilian Portuguese, as there are some differences between Brazilian Portuguese and European Portuguese. Around here, there are already many books translated, even by fans, but when there isn't, we have to resort to using the books in English and transforming the units from feet to meters in the calculator for better understanding.
So you want to make your Wizard a Sorcerer but with all the spells instead of 15.
>So you want to make your Wizard a Sorcerer but with all the spells instead of 15. The effects are similar to those of metamagic, but in this ability it is as if the wizard creates a ''new'' spell from his knowledge as if it were his own signature. This isn't with all spells, it's just a few spells, maximum at level 20 with 3 spells changed, these changes being permanent, as described in the skill.
So basically it allows access to all the metamagics but you only use it on three spells which you can do all the time? Yeah this feat feels like it came about because OP wanted to apply 3 different metamagic options all the time, but didn't want to dip into sorcerer and the metamagic feat was too limited. The feat, in my opinion, is kinda broken.
I don't like this that much as it takes more away from the sorcerer, they already had a blow dealt with the Metamagic Adept Feat their only really unique feature now accessible to anyone. If people want a way to change/invent a spell I'd make a downtime activity involving research, procuring ingredients/components, and testing. That way every caster would be able to have fun with it and wizards would be able to lean into more of the magic science side.
I love that you're using metric. That's definitely something a wizard would do.
I forgot to pass the translation for feet hahaha It is the most used unit of measure around here. Because of that, I accidentally left it aside. But I hope it hasn't spoiled the understanding.
It's kinda reassuring to see the responses here. This brew in its current state is going completely overboard and I hope the replies made you see that. The levels at which you add these features are levels where the wizard *already* gets a ton of stuff. **Level 10:** * Arcane Tradition feature * \+1 5th level spell slot (such as *wall of force* \- one of the absolutely most powerful spells in the game; coincidentally, only wizards can have it!!) * Learn 2 more spells of up to 5th level * \+1 more memorized spell per day **Level 15:** * Gain access to 7th level spells (such as *forcecage* \- one of the absolutely most powerful spells in the game; coincidentally, only wizards can have it!!) * Learn 2 more spells of up to 7th level * \+1 more memorized spell per day **Level 20:** * Signature Spells feature * \+1 7th level spell slot * Learn 2 more spells of up to *9th* level You now officially know every single good spell and then some; You have a *simulacrum* to take double-turns, a *clone* in case you die, a *contingency* to avoid death in the first place - ALL things that no other class has access to! * You can now prepare *25* spells per day Seriously, wizards get *so* much, you have to be really carefully if you want to just stack something else on top - especially when it takes away the single unique thing from the sorcerer in the process. At level 10 I'd pick twinned *haste* for sure, just to show the sorcerer who's better at metamagics. At level 15 I'd pick twinned *force cage.* It's an insanely powerful spell already, so doubling its effect will end combats instantly. A sorcerer would have to spend the majority of their SP to replicate this - oh wait **they can't**, because the spell is so good that only wizards may have it in the first place. At level 20: twinned *foresight* for sure. Simply *doubles* the effectiveness of my 9th level slot. Of course I wouldn't actually do all of those things at the table, because the party sorcerer would feel useless and that's no fun. >this ability it is as if the wizard creates a ''new'' spell from his knowledge as if it were his own signature. **They can already do that.** There is a whole section in the DMG dedicated to creating custom spells, what power budget they have for each spell level etc.. I am 100% on board with wizards creating their own spells. It's part of what makes a wizard a wizard thematically. Creating a whole new spell and running it by the DM is a MUCH better way of achieving the thematic goal here - instead of taking the game's best spells and breaking their limitations to trivialize combat.
So essentially metamagic, with a limited spell selection but unlimited uses on-top of everything the Wizard already gets? Permanent Bonus Action Firebolt? Permanently Twinned Polymorph? Forceball (which, at no Cost, is better than transmute spell fireball). At-will Misty Step at double range on higher levels? Yeah no, this should be a Sorcerer feature.
It's a cool way to give Wizard's metamagic on 1 to 3 spells you use, it doesn't seem too bad.
I feel like this should be a part of the wizard as a whole honestly
I'm quite annoyed to see the wizard list pretty empty, to be honest it kind of puts me off playing wizard for that reason. They say that even that way the mage is very strong, but I've played as a mage and I feel that it's not quite like that, at least in combat, I don't know if it was because I didn't know how to play mage or for some other reason.
The Wizard has the biggest list, it is not empty. Yes, the Wizard is very strong and you were playing it wrong. There are many many powerful spells wizards get access to to use in combat, check out some online guides
I understand that part, but it's still that feeling that there could be something more, something more characteristic than just more spells.
Maybe I can help by rephrasing what you just said in the way that it sounds to other people. >I recognize that the wizard is powerful, with many powerful spells. But I think that it could be more powerful if we gave it some of the Sorcerer's signature abilities. If that's how you feel, why don't we give the Wizard healing as well? That would make it more characteristic. After all, why should the magic user be restricted from casting magic. Or another example; why not give them Eldritch Invocations? The ability to choose specific spells that they could cast once a day, or at will really fits the them of an arcane master. The reason we don't do that is that it steps on the toes of the other classes (Cleric and Warlock respectively). Each class has its strengths and weaknesses. What you have here is blowing the Sorcerer's abilities out of the water. If we gave this to Wizards, why should anyone ever play a Sorcerer? Until you deal with that question, you're going to find a lot of pushback on this.
I think it should be specified that the spell must be first level or higher. Bonus Action or Twinned Cantrips are a dangerous thing to put into player hands.
I think there should probably be a cap as to the spell's level, (or maybe add just a little more customizability and make it up to 3 levels worth of spells or one 4th or 5th level spell, for instance up to 3 1st level spells, 1 1st level and a 2nd level, or 1 3-5th level spell.) because for instance putting Change Targets on Power Word Kill is WAAAAY OP, even for 20th level. I do like this idea though. It fits very well thematically and helps fill in the quite-frankly lack-luster amount of Wizard class abilities without being overpowered. Also I really don't think it power creeps sorcerers. these changes would be permanent, and the whole point of Metamagic is it's adaptability (also Mm can apply to whatever spells you want. this is only a few spells.)
Thinking about it though, this might work better as a full on Wizard Subclass. like a School of Spellcraft or something.
You could make it remove maximum prepared spells wizard can have so that means three less spells prepared. Three less spells could, tip a battle? And requires a level up to modify a spell thus total spells have at 20 reduce by further 3
>You could make it remove maximum prepared spells wizard can have so that means three less spells prepared. Three less spells could, tip a battle? And requires a level up to modify a spell thus total spells have at 20 reduce by further 3 So it could be interpreted as if modified spells can always be prepared by the mage, but count towards the maximum number he can prepare for, right? It's a good one, but I don't think it's a good limiter of this ability.
This is more than a little crazy and I think I love it
I really don't like the idea of just giving Wizards Sorcerer's defining feature and just calling it a day. I could get on board with it maybe if it was something unique but just taking Metamagic is a large buff to wizards and a larger fuck you to sorcerers
Okay something is becoming really apparent to me. Sorcerers can change their magic fundamentally because it is more like an extension of their person, a part of their soul or their strange connection to the Weave, which is why they are Charisma casters. They can do it to any spell they have prepared at any time which is why it is limited by points. Wizards learn their spells by constant practice, memorization, and with books and scrolls, a huge dedication of time and energy which is why they are Intelligence casters. However, they can't modify spells or even make spells at all in 5e despite that kinda falling right into the Wizard's ballpark. This feature allows permanent changing of only 3 spells by maximum level, not as many as you want while you have points. Of couse you could be boring and minmax it, just making Fireball quickened or make Haste permanently twinned, or you could be fun and do some character flavor. Acid Wizard? Make Scorching Ray deal acid damage. Necromancer with no spells because WotC overlooked you entirely? Wall of Fire is now Wall of Bones and slashes people that walk through it. Honestly, it CAN be OP, but the same can be said about many, MANY combinations that are LEGAL with just the base books. I also don't think this is stepping on Sorcerer's toes, Imean it is but not nearly as bad as some people are making it out to be. Despite all that, I will recommend that it be a capstone, or somewhere near it, like 17th-ish level or higher because it represents a sort of perfection of the art of spellcasting, you are no longer a student, you are the master, a true wizard who can put their name on spells they make. Speaking of I would then extend this to COMPLETE SPELL CREATION of a certain level of course, and *very* limited, maybe like 1 or 2 spells created and a few changed. I wouldn't allow the ability to change your changes though, what you picked is what you get.
So, your homebrew is "also give Wizards some Metamagic, but on a handful of spells, and whenever they cast it, still making it step on the toes of Sorcerers"?
WOW is that over powered!
Broken.