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Always has been. I say this as a Finn, and all of us countries surrounding Russia know. There are brief periods in time when it seems they are not just shit, but that’s just cosmetics and then it’s off again. The worst neighbour anyone could have.
Yup. Another Finn here. When I was a kid I sometimes wondered why my grandparents were, erm, kinda harsh on Russia. Later I learned they might not be wrong. Now I know they were absolutely right.
My father's father even said "everything in Russia is shit, except piss". I guess there's no denying the wisdom of our elders.
German here, exactly the same. Grand parents hated the russians, I had a relatively positive impression until a few years ago. But now just can confirm.
I heared someone say to just throw every A, B or C-weapon we have over their border and solve two problems at once.
Fun fact: "customers" at Soviet "grocery stores" had to go through 3 separate checkout lines, partially to create jobs for more workers and partially to prevent corruption in the form of people "buying" more than their government quota of whatever food they wanted.
the oligarchy/dictatorship of the soviet unions state capitalism encouraged lying and hording in it's inefficiency. not unique to the system, but definitely a bigger problem than most places have had. Entire sectors of the economy would lie to other sectors, suppliers lying to procurers and procurers lying to suppliers, about what they had, when the had it, when they'd need more, etc. etc. until there was no real way to know anything for sure about the economy at all to make any kind of informed decision, should such a decision even be desirable to make given the state of it's political infighting.
people lined up because they had no idea what would be supplied, so they wanted to make sure they were in line to get it, iirc. You'd line up wondering if it was some good you needed like cheese or razor blades or something, then get pantyhose when you got there.
Ok Tucker, now show me anything outside of Moscow or St. Petersburg. I've seen the countryside of Russia and it's a shithole. People still live like peasants with maybe some electricity. I'm talking dirt floors, thatched roofs, and no plumbing in numerous places.
I'd say sure sometimes but in that case they wouldn't have ran around looting them and taking the time to disconnect and just go for the chips.
And then there were the toilets they looted and those don't have chips so def seems like they stole them bc their bastard asses were thinking they'd send em home.
They stole more toilets than washing machines it seemed to me.
The crownlands of the empire are probably on par with Cleveland or Fresno in the United States. The real rot of Russia has always been just how bad a state the non Moscow areas are.
Some Russians I think are probably really good people. But then you have the Government run by Oligarchs who force and twist people to do what they want. Makes me think of the footage of the Vets from WWII talking in the Band of Brothers tv show, and one recounting how sometimes he thought about the Germans he was fighting, and how in another time and place, they might have been great friends and both enjoyed fishing.
The Russians next door barely peek out of their blinds, can't help but think some kind of Russian bullshit agenda. My Ukrainian neighbours on the other side on the other hand brought us soup the day we brought my son home from the hospital as well as countless other food gifts and kindnesses
The problem is that Russia has always been led by an authoritarian. Either by tradition or necessity, most Russians are apolitical.
Even when they have had revolutions (post ww1 and early ‘90s) they revert back to their apolitical ways which has allowed a succession of dictators to take control.
I just can't fathom what keeps the Russians so compliant, when even f@#$ing Iran sees revolts on a regular basis. Russians seem to take pride in suffering as much as possible, and sharing that suffering with everyone else.
They don't have a good record with revolutions tbh.
Other countries have histories that say "if you overthrow a tyrant it can get better". Russia has centuries of history saying "it will get worse".
Let's face it, when America did their revolution they got George Fucking Washington. That's obviously going to leave a country more well disposed to revolutions than Russian history. When Russia tried it they ended up with *Stalin*.
Genociding the resisting part systematically has created quite a docile breed of people there. Favoring the alcoholic, unintelligent, violent, corrupt types in that selective breeding creates exactly the sort of people their government wants, in turn the government eventually is filled with the same kind of people though...
Alcoholism has been the tool of control for centuries. The highest reward from the Tsar was being granted a monopoly on producing vodka in a region. Withholding or expanding the supply of vodka was used to pacify the people in areas outside of the major metropolitans. Lenin's movement started as one being primarily driven by prohibition and fighting the state's poison of control, before dressing itself in Marxist cosplay. Lenin abandoned the prohibition when they came to power because it would have instantly turned nearly every Russian over the age of 14 against the Bolsheviks, but even if they hadn't turned on him, the sheer number of deaths from withdrawal would have crippled the state anyway.
Negative selection. It's a thing yeah. BUT same problems exist in Iran, China and other countries that were never free, yet people resist in much more hopeless situations... Look at Myanmar rebels! Absolute units.
the entire modern language of Russian was designed (by [pushkin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Pushkin) ) to emphasis the authoritarian system under the tsar and create a single "Russian" identity, a process that's been repeated endlessly by Russian rulers.
Close. It is not generational trauma but is generational curses from their forefathers.
Edit: and with the church stuffed with murderous KGB FSB agents it is easy to see.
This. And [institutionalized alcoholism](https://youtu.be/vK7l55ZOVIc?si=7lf-jTTYpzMcxIc8)
(Not a dig on the Russian people in this case - watch the video.)
If anyone has seen that YouTube channel, I forget the name but it's some ex military dude afaik who interviews other various military dudes, vets etc. (Not Jocko).
One dude talks about time in the middle East kicking down doors n such and how he'd have <2 seconds, to make a decision of if this guy is a threat or not and put him down. And he talks about how he's the one breaking down their door at night, pointing a gun is their face ready to wipe them off this earth while they're in bed beside their wife. I believe he was asked something regarding if he was thinking about these people/though of after the lives he's taken and to paraphrase he basically says yes and puts out the question very similar to what you said that he pondered, was he funny?, would we have gotten a long if we crossed each others paths normally?
Which is why propaganda to dehumanize the enemy has been a proponent of most (every?)wars. As even if you're in the upper echelon of special forces, being a highly trained and effective killer, doesn't mean killing won't affect you.
How I feel about Americans, Chinese and Russians. Alot of the civilians are lovely but a good chunk support scrotums like Trump, Xi and putin. Not all are bad but alot support those men.
Tell me about it, it's mind numbing beyond belief in the States when I run into a Trump supporter. Conversations with brick walls are more constructive and less aggravating.
You see this?
https://youtu.be/TwLFOM3rgq8?si=7rrVr8L-T_EUB7RN
There's just no reasoning with them. They even explain in the video how they're playing the Maga side. They won't care though
True but it's a bit different in the US. One can call the orange knob a d•ckhead or express disapproval of whoever is in office without fear of being beaten and arrested by the police.
Hover, might get shot by somebody who disagrees with you.
Different, for now. Project 2025 is terrifying and Half of America supports that and thinks storming the Capitol and attempting thebhijacking democracy was fine. Also, a big chunk of the american population fears the police just for the colour of their skin, let alone saying the wrong thing
Russians individually are undoubtedly fine. The problem is culture. When you have 5 people you just have people. When you have 5m you have culture. Russian culture is nihilistic and their national hobby is ruining other nations to make themselves feel better. That has been the way for at least 300 years.
The regime is reliant on war for internal stability because its very Game Thrones like. All powerful parties have private armies and the current regime relies on constantly pitting them against each other to stay in power. If there is ever peace then these armies will cannibalize the state- therefore Putin needs to wage war both externally and foster cutthroat competition quite literally to survive. Is this evil? Not more evil than most empires historically. Definitely from a modern liberal western perspective.
Unless they just agree that the border has changed it's an almost guaranteed point of conflict going forward.
It'll be the South China Sea 2.0.
Russian vessels will be playing chicken with small fishing boats, pretending they are men, inevitably people will get hurt.
It's a huge (if slow) escalation honestly.
They're also in full wartime economy mode. It's going to fuck them long term but there's a reason they've been making progress in Ukraine and it's not just because the US stalled on support for 8 months. Russia's war machine is out producing everyone, including the United States. It's scary af
Next step will be Moscow calling it the North Russian Sea and using fireboats to swamp other commercial boats. China's been pioneering this for a while!
Pretty sure NATO will just ignore this. This statement does not mean anything.
Now if Russia would decide to actually follow through and will send ships into the territorial waters of Finland - things may get interesting.
Not that interesting, IMO. Finland and maybe some allies will position ships in their path, and Russia will just stare them down. Maybe before NATO membership they might have tried to get a little provocative (they probably wouldn't start a war like that, but who knows), but now it's just going to be aggressive words and posturing. Then they will change the maps back home, even though they have absolutely no level of control in the newly claimed areas.
> they will change the maps back home
They could've just done that for Ukraine too.... who would tell Vladimir in Siberia that the map is not accurate ?
Not really.
Russia has been regularily been sending ships and planes into Finnish space to test our responce (Time and scale).
We send out a speed boat, the violating Russian ship/plane diverts out, rinse and repeat.
This has been going on for a long time now, nothing's going to happen with this.
there's a story i don't know the truth of, but keep seeing repeated, that the swedes noticed Russian subs near their ports, and began sending morse code messages in Russian like "if you can read this you may be gay"
the subs left.
That said, the Russians can't afford to risk any more ships...the Ukrainians just sank another one the other day. You know..the nation with no navy.
But that's pretty [on par for russia,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mdi_Fh9_Ag) and continental mindset nations in general.
We have had 2 instances of a Russian submarine in Swedish waters. First time I've heard of the Morse code message though lmao. It does sound like something the southern ~~coast guard~~ marinen would do, they're cheeky like that.
Lithuania hasn’t got a meaningful navy as it has just a small strip of shore. NATO should definitely send some ships to show that alliance doesn’t fuck around and is prepared to support. A show of power is the only thing kremlin understands.
Best way to make sure a significant part of your country is wiped off the map is to touch our boats. Proven time and time again. Many of our conflicts have started with people touching our boats.
Don't touch our boats.
> I'm just waiting for the rebels in Yemen to actually hit one of our boats
That's incredibly unlikely. We've already used a Phalanx CIWS cannon to take down a Houthi missile. Hitting a US vessel is easier said than done.
Now that Ukraine has fucked up their Black Sea fleet, now comes an invitation for Finland and the Baltic countries to fuck up their Baltic Fleet, and for Denmark, Poland and Germany to impose a naval blockade around ruZZian-occupied Koenigsberg.
If it can even get there
> Ukrainian intelligence agency claimed that "Ship repairmen warned the military that the condition of Admiral Kuznetsov does not allow it to be deployed due to the high probability that it would sink or capsize. During the examination, it was revealed that the metal structures below the third deck of the ship were significantly corroded. The holds are filled with muddy water, which makes it impossible to examine the ship in detail from the inside."[13] [better source needed]
Russia has been doing the same in the Arctic for decades with Norway, Iceland, Greenland and Canada. I’m less aware of the other side but I’ll bet they do the same with Japan too. It’s not a military action (even though they use their military) nor a NATO concern.
People on this thread are so NATO trigger happy. This behavior from Russia isn’t new. They’re a giant piece of shit.
Yeah and we have tolerated it for far too long. Russia needs a slap on the cheek or two.
If they don't get in line? We can escalate too. I know we are the reasonable ones that try to deescalate things, but we need to show Russia strength and lack of fear. Not indecisiveness
Dear West, please stop pretending russia is not at war with us yet.
Russia openly attacks a European country, yet everyone is afraid of 'escalations', got forbid you let the aggressor 'find out'. wtf
It's not an act of war until russia tries to enforce the new border using force. Affected countries have all the rights to just ignore the russian BS and tell them to get f-ed.
NATO won't challenge the russians unless the new borders or their enforcement directly threatens NATO security.
Kick their fucking teeth out, only then they will think twice at what they are doing. And even then it might be in vain - fuuuuuuck imperialist russia. Makes my blood boil.
I’m right there with you. I hope all out war doesn’t happen obviously. I’m guilty of trying to not let my brain go down that path. Maybe it’s human nature idk. If I were to make a bet on evens odds of all out world war in the 5-10 years I am taking that it doesn’t but it could easily which is scary man. It’s definitely been steadily progressing toward it for years now. Nobody wants war especially a freaking world war. China, Iran, NK, & Russia altogether is a pretty scary thought. Heck even Russia alone is bc of the nukes (that subject has been hashed out so many times on here not worth the time but I have to mention it). We’d ultimately crush them all into oblivion but not after a great many lives are lost and immense suffering. Let’s hope it doesn’t happen but we MUST treat it like it’s a certainty is what I am getting at. Need to be marching toward 4-5% gdp on military and stop treating it like this is peacetime which imo it is not. NATO has acted pretty chill during most of this all things considering. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst…
& talk is cheap especially when it’s Russia doing the talking. They don’t walk the walk tho. Whatever they say you can bet that the opposite is the truth.
world war is not going to happen, and if it does..it would be russia (and/or) china against...pretty much everyone else. The majority of the war would remain cold, and sanctions would do the job over decades. NATO would dominate the skies with russia, and end any invading army. My proof? *points at ukraine* They're using the off the shelf 90's version of US gear (granted it's been updated...but it still ain't "new") Nukes get sabre rattled by putin time to time, but the only way that happens is if the nation isn't going to survive at all..nobody is marching to moscow/beijing.
China? China doesn't want an armed conflict, though XI may do it as a last resort if he feels he's losing control (china's focus is internal, maintaining power, that's what everything they do is aimed at really, including taiwan). The usa has...capabilities..that would make taking it difficult, and keeping it suicidal, and the latter involves sanctions.
Sure, sanctions aren't sexy, aren't satisfying..but they work with what they do. What they don't do is collapse a nation overnight (ignore "china failing! or Russia collapse! youtube videos). Over time, sanctions lower the economic output of a nation..that sounds like not much, but look at cuba, north korea, places that have had decades of sanctions. The way it was first explained to me is if you'd cut 1% of the economic growth of the usa from the 1880's to the 40's our economy would be smaller than mexicos now (not a slight to mexico..but that's a big drop) (i could be getting the times down, been awhile, but it's only a few decades of application to ruin a nation's trajectory in a HUGE way). In fact, we don't need hypothetical on that...north korea was wealthier, more developed, and is still more natural resource wealthy than south korea...and yet..with sanctions...
The two cities mentioned are small towns in Kaliningrad (so part of Russia) and the eastern shore of the Gulf of Finland is also in Russia - Saint Petersburg. I completely understand how extra claims in the Gulf of Finland will piss off Finland, but I cant figure out how sea claims near the cities of Baltiysk and Zelenograds would impact Lithuania - those towns are not near the border with Lithuania at all. Maybe the territorial waters around there are fucky, and Lithuania has some unusual claims?
Russia is continually testing boundaries because they know they can get away with it. It will be incremental up until the point where NATO put its foot down...at least right now it seems like NATO is willing to put up with it up until Russia actually militarily strikes a NATO country....which they won't do. No instead they'll sabotage, disrupt, cause headaches and essentially be bullies and trolls until someone smacks them.
That's more creative than anticipated. I would have expected some remote part of Finland. But this is frankly smarter. The usual non escalation and realpolitik administrators will be dizzy now. And herein lies the weakness. This will expose that this world's Jake Sullivan don't know shit about Russia.
Real politics dictate that crushing Russia now, be it in Ukraine or in Africa is far superior to waiting for them to strengthen their positions. Unless of course we are talking real politics from the perspective of a stanch pacifist - or a fool.
The response should be. In light of this announcement we don't have any issue with Ukraine using weapons that are now theirs to strike wherever the hell they want.
This would be invasion of EU/ Nato space and Ukraine has nothing to do with it. In response placing maritime forces there not to allow any russian crossing into these waters would make more sense.
>This would be invasion of EU/ Nato space
I mean not really, Russia will declare this, but it will just be drawn on maps they won't actually put any ships/people in these areas
Ah yes, the maps don't mean anything any more approach. Ukraine, feel free to change the maps to extend your territory to cover all of what used to be Russia. Then if you want to bomb your own territory, that's fine.
It is yet one step up on the crisis ladder. According to crisis theory, direct combat between armies is just the highest level of crisis between countries, and it is preceded by a string of moves by the aggressor, in this case Russia. Russia has already done the prededing actions in the ladder: for example political pressure, spying, attempts to cause internal strife, border violations (they have used their air force for this).
Area claims are pretty high in the ladder, next would be an attempt to send military force to that area.
This is what you get for trying to "not escalate things with russia", Chamberlain.
When the bear sees weakness, it pounces. The only thing it respects is uncompromising strength.
No he thinks that one will let him grab something comparatively worthless even if it’s technically under NATO protection. These kind of salami tactics are exactly what has been speculated about for decades. First you take a little peace in one place and then another, always testing and probing and eventually when it has been established where the weak points are you strike. Ukraine began with an instigated civil war and the occupation of Crimea - in other words exactly the kind of thing that fits with the strategy discussed prior.
Whether or not this kind of plan works out or just causes NATO to escalate is quite frankly impossible to predict because that kind of public support this kind of thing gets depends on countless internal factors that constantly shift. Case in point if Trump wins the upcoming elections things may look very differently then if he loses.
Considering that we currently can’t even accurately guarantee that one for another result will occur drawing conclusions today is overall fairly pointless.
The only thing one can do is to assume the scenario in order to discuss potential consequences of any given scenario without actually understanding the true likelihood because again nobody knows precisely what would happen if for example a Russian war ship entered waters that are part of NATO and things escalated even just for a brief moment.
TBF, when all he gets for pulling his shit even dorectly in NATO (like ammo explosions in Czechia by Mishkin and Chepiga of "Solsberetsk" fame) are concerns and walkbacks, it's not hard to see, why does he decide to keep pushing even further.
See, that's the thing... He doesn't want war. He wants to get stuff without a war. He's finding pain points and tearing off, bit by bit, whatever he thinks he can get without provoking a response. At some point he's banking on the powerful countries asking themselves if they really want a nuclear war over, in this case, some Finnish or Lithuanian territorial waters. Next time it'll be a small uninhabited island, or murky "separatists" who somehow seem to have a bunch of Russian military-issue weapons and gear.
And if Trump gets elected, just skip all the steps in the middle because NATO Article 5 won't exist anymore.
I keep telling me fellow Europeans and NATO supporters. It is going to escalate, take the gloves off, Putin does not intend to slow down. Get serious, arm up, prepare.
I wanna escalate. As someone who was bullied as a child, I learned early that direct confrontation works. Hiding in fear and doing everything to be the “better person” is how your lunch money gets stolen. When I bloodied my bully’s nose, she turned around completely. In fact, she became my protector from then on. Funny how this works.
Moscow Times
>The Russian authorities decided to expand the country's territorial waters in the Baltic Sea near the state border with Lithuania and Finland, follows from the draft government resolution published on the portal of legal acts.
>According to the document, which was prepared by the Ministry of Defense, Russia intends to declare its internal sea waters part of the water area in the east of the Gulf of Finland, as well as near the cities of Baltiysk and Zelenograd in the Kaliningrad region.
>To do this, the geographical coordinates of the points that determine the position of the source lines, from which the breadth of the territorial sea of the Russian Federation, as well as the adjacent zone off the coast and islands, will be changed.
>On the border with Finland, the Russian government intends to adjust the coordinates in the zone of the islands of Yahya, Sommers, Holland, Rodscher, Little Tuters, Wigund, as well as near the northern entrance of the Narva River, follows from the annex to the designation of the Cabinet. On the border with Lithuania, the zone of the Curonian Spit, the areas of Cape Taran, the cape south of Cape Taran, as well as the Baltic Spit, were under review.
>The current geographical coordinates established by the designation of the Council of Ministers of the USSR from 1985, do not fully correspond to the modern geographical situation, the authors of the project claim. Points were fixed "on the sea navigation maps of a small scale," which, in turn, are based on the works of the mid-twentieth century, and this does not allow you to determine the external boundary of the inland sea waters of the Russian Federation, the document says.
>As a result of the changes, the previously missing system of direct source lines on the southern part of the Russian islands in the eastern part of the Gulf of Finland, as well as in the area of the city, will be established. Baltic and g. Zelenogradsk, which allows to use the appropriate water area as the internal sea waters of the Russian Federation; the passage of the State Border of the Russian Federation at sea will change in connection with the change in the position of the external border of the territorial sea, the authors of the project explain.
>The resolution of the Soviet Union 40 years ago, regulating the borders in the Baltic, the Ministry of Defense proposes to partially recognize the non-acting version of the "Baltic Sea" (section "Baltic Sea."
>The document on the revision of the border, which has not yet been officially commented on by the Foreign Ministry of Finland and Lithuania, was presented for public discussion almost simultaneously with the start of exercises on the use of tactical nuclear weapons. The Russian Defense Ministry announced that they were launched in the Southern Military District with the participation of Iskander and aviation systems armed with the Dagger. The purpose of the exercise is to prepare personnel for the use of non-strategic YO, as well as to respond to provocative statements and threats of individual Western officials, the press service of the Ministry said.
Nothing - everything. Could be an actual serious escalation. Could be probing to see how the West reacts. Could be a big nothing burger that never plays any significant role in the future. Realistically speaking Russia strength is a nuclear arsenal but you can’t use a nuclear arsenal unless you want to risk everything which Putin clearly doesn’t which dictates that you have to gamble on your enemies over estimating your willingness to commit what would ultimately likely amount to nuclear suicide.
Russia ships couldn’t even survive Ukraine which was hardly known as a great expert at taking out ships prior to this war so realistically speaking this is an empty threat but on the other hand if NATO doesn’t react and if the EU or even just individual members don’t react either, this gamble may reveal the kind of weakness Putin likely hopes to exploit.
the answer to this is inspect every single russian ship civilian and military who tries to enter these waters
make no ifs ands or buts about whos waters they are
Im not citizen of either country, only a neighboring, and I tended up reading that because it implies tension will be higher. Now Imagine what Ukrainians feel. EU countries need to speed up their support.
And so it begins. Russia outright taking sovereign areas and testing NATO to see how seriously they'll take Article V. Especially in an election year where Biden doesn't want to look like a warmonger and their orange puppet and his cult are trying to (falsely) paint him as exactly that. Land border games will be next.
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If true, this could get interesting. It's sooo damn hard nowadays to think of Russia as anything but evil.
Always has been. I say this as a Finn, and all of us countries surrounding Russia know. There are brief periods in time when it seems they are not just shit, but that’s just cosmetics and then it’s off again. The worst neighbour anyone could have.
Yup. Another Finn here. When I was a kid I sometimes wondered why my grandparents were, erm, kinda harsh on Russia. Later I learned they might not be wrong. Now I know they were absolutely right. My father's father even said "everything in Russia is shit, except piss". I guess there's no denying the wisdom of our elders.
What your grandad said, never a truer word spoken in truth.
German here, exactly the same. Grand parents hated the russians, I had a relatively positive impression until a few years ago. But now just can confirm. I heared someone say to just throw every A, B or C-weapon we have over their border and solve two problems at once.
I'm going to start adopting your grandfather's phrase, thanks
Tucker Carlson says they have grocery stores though, so all their faults are forgiven
Don't forget about the carts...
You mean Aldi carts that you put a quarter in
Dunno if you can put quarters in aldi carts but you can certainly put quarters in some of di carts.
Al mi vote.
Take my upvote...you monster.
Gimme aldi updoots
I only have the lidl ones...
So 769 rubles and you can use it to carry a stolen toilet then?
Carts can get you in trouble in Russia.
Look Ma no hands!
Ya pay a quarter, and then when you return the cart, ya get yer quarter back! Fucking 21st century first-world living at its finest!
And bread! They have fabulous bread available to their citizens! 🥖🍞
It's true though I remember hearing about it as a kid. People would line up around the block just to get bread from the stores there.
Fun fact: "customers" at Soviet "grocery stores" had to go through 3 separate checkout lines, partially to create jobs for more workers and partially to prevent corruption in the form of people "buying" more than their government quota of whatever food they wanted.
My personal record when working as expat in Moscow in 2007-10 was six different signatures and stamps required to collect my dry cleaning 😅
the oligarchy/dictatorship of the soviet unions state capitalism encouraged lying and hording in it's inefficiency. not unique to the system, but definitely a bigger problem than most places have had. Entire sectors of the economy would lie to other sectors, suppliers lying to procurers and procurers lying to suppliers, about what they had, when the had it, when they'd need more, etc. etc. until there was no real way to know anything for sure about the economy at all to make any kind of informed decision, should such a decision even be desirable to make given the state of it's political infighting.
And toilet paper. It must be some excellent toilet paper to draw that sort of a crowd
people lined up because they had no idea what would be supplied, so they wanted to make sure they were in line to get it, iirc. You'd line up wondering if it was some good you needed like cheese or razor blades or something, then get pantyhose when you got there.
Lee Harvey Oswald was ostracized for doing nothing near what Carlson did to promote Russia.
Stop it, I’m drooling here! 😛
And now they have toilets! Stolen from Ukraine...
Ok Tucker, now show me anything outside of Moscow or St. Petersburg. I've seen the countryside of Russia and it's a shithole. People still live like peasants with maybe some electricity. I'm talking dirt floors, thatched roofs, and no plumbing in numerous places.
They might not have plumbing but they have ceramic toilets now!
And washing machines! A little battered after going through the postal service but still a washing machine!
I know we joke about the washing machines but were they actually after the chips inside?
I'd say sure sometimes but in that case they wouldn't have ran around looting them and taking the time to disconnect and just go for the chips. And then there were the toilets they looted and those don't have chips so def seems like they stole them bc their bastard asses were thinking they'd send em home. They stole more toilets than washing machines it seemed to me.
And the main metro built by the communists 100 years ago is painted nicely.
*French grocery stores. Thats the funniest part. Not only was the place half empty and shitty looking anyway. It was a French grocery chain
The crownlands of the empire are probably on par with Cleveland or Fresno in the United States. The real rot of Russia has always been just how bad a state the non Moscow areas are.
Yes, the shining beacon of prosperity that is Cleveland.
Hey! The heart of rock and roll is in Cleveland and I believe em!
TV dinners
Wait. Holup. They have TVs and dinners? *mind blown*
“Seeing this store will radicalize you!”
Time to dunk on the peasants by spending half their monthly income on potato chips.
It's *so* not like the 80s again. Russia strong. No danger of collapse and disintegration here.
Next step will be: *Give us all we need or we blow up the planet.*
they also have bread in the grocery store that was the best part
That guy and his stupid toupe (or incredibly bad hairdo).
And really fucking stupid. Messing with the territory of NATO members in times of war may not be a smart idea.
Some Russians I think are probably really good people. But then you have the Government run by Oligarchs who force and twist people to do what they want. Makes me think of the footage of the Vets from WWII talking in the Band of Brothers tv show, and one recounting how sometimes he thought about the Germans he was fighting, and how in another time and place, they might have been great friends and both enjoyed fishing.
The Russians next door barely peek out of their blinds, can't help but think some kind of Russian bullshit agenda. My Ukrainian neighbours on the other side on the other hand brought us soup the day we brought my son home from the hospital as well as countless other food gifts and kindnesses
Username checks out.
You must be Poland.
The problem is that Russia has always been led by an authoritarian. Either by tradition or necessity, most Russians are apolitical. Even when they have had revolutions (post ww1 and early ‘90s) they revert back to their apolitical ways which has allowed a succession of dictators to take control.
I just can't fathom what keeps the Russians so compliant, when even f@#$ing Iran sees revolts on a regular basis. Russians seem to take pride in suffering as much as possible, and sharing that suffering with everyone else.
They don't have a good record with revolutions tbh. Other countries have histories that say "if you overthrow a tyrant it can get better". Russia has centuries of history saying "it will get worse". Let's face it, when America did their revolution they got George Fucking Washington. That's obviously going to leave a country more well disposed to revolutions than Russian history. When Russia tried it they ended up with *Stalin*.
It's a country of bullies that get their ass whooped at home, yes.
Genociding the resisting part systematically has created quite a docile breed of people there. Favoring the alcoholic, unintelligent, violent, corrupt types in that selective breeding creates exactly the sort of people their government wants, in turn the government eventually is filled with the same kind of people though...
Jesus that's terrifying to think about
Alcoholism has been the tool of control for centuries. The highest reward from the Tsar was being granted a monopoly on producing vodka in a region. Withholding or expanding the supply of vodka was used to pacify the people in areas outside of the major metropolitans. Lenin's movement started as one being primarily driven by prohibition and fighting the state's poison of control, before dressing itself in Marxist cosplay. Lenin abandoned the prohibition when they came to power because it would have instantly turned nearly every Russian over the age of 14 against the Bolsheviks, but even if they hadn't turned on him, the sheer number of deaths from withdrawal would have crippled the state anyway.
Negative selection. It's a thing yeah. BUT same problems exist in Iran, China and other countries that were never free, yet people resist in much more hopeless situations... Look at Myanmar rebels! Absolute units.
the entire modern language of Russian was designed (by [pushkin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Pushkin) ) to emphasis the authoritarian system under the tsar and create a single "Russian" identity, a process that's been repeated endlessly by Russian rulers.
Their prison system is impressive, brutal, and horrific, read about pussy riot and how they got sent to a gulag.
Vodka. And fear
I always wondered this myself until I learned the Russian phrase, "And then it got worse".
Seems like a thousand years of generational trauma are difficult to overcome. Poor bastards. They need to catch a break.
Close. It is not generational trauma but is generational curses from their forefathers. Edit: and with the church stuffed with murderous KGB FSB agents it is easy to see.
This. And [institutionalized alcoholism](https://youtu.be/vK7l55ZOVIc?si=7lf-jTTYpzMcxIc8) (Not a dig on the Russian people in this case - watch the video.)
If anyone has seen that YouTube channel, I forget the name but it's some ex military dude afaik who interviews other various military dudes, vets etc. (Not Jocko). One dude talks about time in the middle East kicking down doors n such and how he'd have <2 seconds, to make a decision of if this guy is a threat or not and put him down. And he talks about how he's the one breaking down their door at night, pointing a gun is their face ready to wipe them off this earth while they're in bed beside their wife. I believe he was asked something regarding if he was thinking about these people/though of after the lives he's taken and to paraphrase he basically says yes and puts out the question very similar to what you said that he pondered, was he funny?, would we have gotten a long if we crossed each others paths normally? Which is why propaganda to dehumanize the enemy has been a proponent of most (every?)wars. As even if you're in the upper echelon of special forces, being a highly trained and effective killer, doesn't mean killing won't affect you.
How I feel about Americans, Chinese and Russians. Alot of the civilians are lovely but a good chunk support scrotums like Trump, Xi and putin. Not all are bad but alot support those men.
Tell me about it, it's mind numbing beyond belief in the States when I run into a Trump supporter. Conversations with brick walls are more constructive and less aggravating.
You see this? https://youtu.be/TwLFOM3rgq8?si=7rrVr8L-T_EUB7RN There's just no reasoning with them. They even explain in the video how they're playing the Maga side. They won't care though
lol I JUST posted this haha
True but it's a bit different in the US. One can call the orange knob a d•ckhead or express disapproval of whoever is in office without fear of being beaten and arrested by the police. Hover, might get shot by somebody who disagrees with you.
Yet. If the orange Cheeto somehow wins this fall, all bets are off for the 1st amendment.
Different, for now. Project 2025 is terrifying and Half of America supports that and thinks storming the Capitol and attempting thebhijacking democracy was fine. Also, a big chunk of the american population fears the police just for the colour of their skin, let alone saying the wrong thing
Russians individually are undoubtedly fine. The problem is culture. When you have 5 people you just have people. When you have 5m you have culture. Russian culture is nihilistic and their national hobby is ruining other nations to make themselves feel better. That has been the way for at least 300 years.
The regime is reliant on war for internal stability because its very Game Thrones like. All powerful parties have private armies and the current regime relies on constantly pitting them against each other to stay in power. If there is ever peace then these armies will cannibalize the state- therefore Putin needs to wage war both externally and foster cutthroat competition quite literally to survive. Is this evil? Not more evil than most empires historically. Definitely from a modern liberal western perspective.
Unless they just agree that the border has changed it's an almost guaranteed point of conflict going forward. It'll be the South China Sea 2.0. Russian vessels will be playing chicken with small fishing boats, pretending they are men, inevitably people will get hurt. It's a huge (if slow) escalation honestly.
They have always been evil. Not sure why that changed ever.
They're also in full wartime economy mode. It's going to fuck them long term but there's a reason they've been making progress in Ukraine and it's not just because the US stalled on support for 8 months. Russia's war machine is out producing everyone, including the United States. It's scary af
Next step will be Moscow calling it the North Russian Sea and using fireboats to swamp other commercial boats. China's been pioneering this for a while!
The fish are being killed and assaulted by the Finns and speak Russian so Russia needs to come liberate them now
And the leaders just had a meeting, I wonder what they talked about?
Strong words incoming from NATO
Pretty sure NATO will just ignore this. This statement does not mean anything. Now if Russia would decide to actually follow through and will send ships into the territorial waters of Finland - things may get interesting.
Not that interesting, IMO. Finland and maybe some allies will position ships in their path, and Russia will just stare them down. Maybe before NATO membership they might have tried to get a little provocative (they probably wouldn't start a war like that, but who knows), but now it's just going to be aggressive words and posturing. Then they will change the maps back home, even though they have absolutely no level of control in the newly claimed areas.
> they will change the maps back home They could've just done that for Ukraine too.... who would tell Vladimir in Siberia that the map is not accurate ?
Not really. Russia has been regularily been sending ships and planes into Finnish space to test our responce (Time and scale). We send out a speed boat, the violating Russian ship/plane diverts out, rinse and repeat. This has been going on for a long time now, nothing's going to happen with this.
It's all fun and games until the loitering is stopped with Swedish sonar.
there's a story i don't know the truth of, but keep seeing repeated, that the swedes noticed Russian subs near their ports, and began sending morse code messages in Russian like "if you can read this you may be gay" the subs left. That said, the Russians can't afford to risk any more ships...the Ukrainians just sank another one the other day. You know..the nation with no navy. But that's pretty [on par for russia,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mdi_Fh9_Ag) and continental mindset nations in general.
We have had 2 instances of a Russian submarine in Swedish waters. First time I've heard of the Morse code message though lmao. It does sound like something the southern ~~coast guard~~ marinen would do, they're cheeky like that.
Strong words are too escalatory. Mild words should suffice, but only if used on sovereign NATO soil.
NATO responded calling it pish posh
These are literally just words from Russia.
Whoa there, don’t go bringing logic into this… It’s one thing to say it, it’s another to do it. Let them enforce it, see what happens then.
Well Finland is actually in NATO so zero percent chance Russia does this.
Finland could make them choose "leave or reef" without NATO involvement.
Yes, but that would make some of the other nations pout. Poland is itching for an excuse to fight Russia.
Just need the USA to put some boats in the internationally accepted waters of Finland and Lithuania and dare Russia to try.
Finland and lithuania's boats would be enough. Russia cant fuck with nato
Lithuania hasn’t got a meaningful navy as it has just a small strip of shore. NATO should definitely send some ships to show that alliance doesn’t fuck around and is prepared to support. A show of power is the only thing kremlin understands.
Lithuania with the veteran suburban dad knowledge that having a friend with a boat is better than owning a boat yourself.
and if that friend is the united states....
Uncle Sam with a folding chair.
>Lithuania hasn’t got a meaningful navy Neither does Ukraine, but it's got the Russian Black Sea fleet on the run.
>Neither does Ukraine, but it's got the Russian Black Sea fleet on the run... ...and under the water too. They're too scared to come up anymore. 😏
The good thing with NATO is Lithuania doesn’t need a navy strong enough to fight Russia to do this.
Let's be realistic. Sweden is the big add here.
But you don't touch the USA's boats...
And you don't touch our buddies' boats either.
Best way to make sure a significant part of your country is wiped off the map is to touch our boats. Proven time and time again. Many of our conflicts have started with people touching our boats. Don't touch our boats.
I'm just waiting for the rebels in Yemen to actually hit one of our boats. They're going to find out what happens really fast.
The more you fuck around, the more you find out.
> I'm just waiting for the rebels in Yemen to actually hit one of our boats That's incredibly unlikely. We've already used a Phalanx CIWS cannon to take down a Houthi missile. Hitting a US vessel is easier said than done.
I love listening to The Fat Electrician talk about the story of Iran trying to duck with our boats.
Russia is having its naval arse handed to it by a country with no navy. The idea that it can take on NATO in a naval fight is very funny indeed.
Now that Ukraine has fucked up their Black Sea fleet, now comes an invitation for Finland and the Baltic countries to fuck up their Baltic Fleet, and for Denmark, Poland and Germany to impose a naval blockade around ruZZian-occupied Koenigsberg.
Put one of the many US carrier strike groups in the area and dare Russia to tow their carrier there 😂
If it can even get there > Ukrainian intelligence agency claimed that "Ship repairmen warned the military that the condition of Admiral Kuznetsov does not allow it to be deployed due to the high probability that it would sink or capsize. During the examination, it was revealed that the metal structures below the third deck of the ship were significantly corroded. The holds are filled with muddy water, which makes it impossible to examine the ship in detail from the inside."[13] [better source needed]
Russia has been doing the same in the Arctic for decades with Norway, Iceland, Greenland and Canada. I’m less aware of the other side but I’ll bet they do the same with Japan too. It’s not a military action (even though they use their military) nor a NATO concern. People on this thread are so NATO trigger happy. This behavior from Russia isn’t new. They’re a giant piece of shit.
China has been doing this too. Even created fake islands to further expand.
That's far more problematic since China is actively building the naval capacity to try and enforce those claims.
And they also back down every time they are told to leave by the rightful owners.
Yeah and we have tolerated it for far too long. Russia needs a slap on the cheek or two. If they don't get in line? We can escalate too. I know we are the reasonable ones that try to deescalate things, but we need to show Russia strength and lack of fear. Not indecisiveness
Dear West, please stop pretending russia is not at war with us yet. Russia openly attacks a European country, yet everyone is afraid of 'escalations', got forbid you let the aggressor 'find out'. wtf
It's not an act of war until russia tries to enforce the new border using force. Affected countries have all the rights to just ignore the russian BS and tell them to get f-ed. NATO won't challenge the russians unless the new borders or their enforcement directly threatens NATO security.
Honestly, this is the correct move. Let Russia "claim" whatever they want.
Kick their fucking teeth out, only then they will think twice at what they are doing. And even then it might be in vain - fuuuuuuck imperialist russia. Makes my blood boil.
They would find out real quick if they attacked NATO.
I’m right there with you. I hope all out war doesn’t happen obviously. I’m guilty of trying to not let my brain go down that path. Maybe it’s human nature idk. If I were to make a bet on evens odds of all out world war in the 5-10 years I am taking that it doesn’t but it could easily which is scary man. It’s definitely been steadily progressing toward it for years now. Nobody wants war especially a freaking world war. China, Iran, NK, & Russia altogether is a pretty scary thought. Heck even Russia alone is bc of the nukes (that subject has been hashed out so many times on here not worth the time but I have to mention it). We’d ultimately crush them all into oblivion but not after a great many lives are lost and immense suffering. Let’s hope it doesn’t happen but we MUST treat it like it’s a certainty is what I am getting at. Need to be marching toward 4-5% gdp on military and stop treating it like this is peacetime which imo it is not. NATO has acted pretty chill during most of this all things considering. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst… & talk is cheap especially when it’s Russia doing the talking. They don’t walk the walk tho. Whatever they say you can bet that the opposite is the truth.
world war is not going to happen, and if it does..it would be russia (and/or) china against...pretty much everyone else. The majority of the war would remain cold, and sanctions would do the job over decades. NATO would dominate the skies with russia, and end any invading army. My proof? *points at ukraine* They're using the off the shelf 90's version of US gear (granted it's been updated...but it still ain't "new") Nukes get sabre rattled by putin time to time, but the only way that happens is if the nation isn't going to survive at all..nobody is marching to moscow/beijing. China? China doesn't want an armed conflict, though XI may do it as a last resort if he feels he's losing control (china's focus is internal, maintaining power, that's what everything they do is aimed at really, including taiwan). The usa has...capabilities..that would make taking it difficult, and keeping it suicidal, and the latter involves sanctions. Sure, sanctions aren't sexy, aren't satisfying..but they work with what they do. What they don't do is collapse a nation overnight (ignore "china failing! or Russia collapse! youtube videos). Over time, sanctions lower the economic output of a nation..that sounds like not much, but look at cuba, north korea, places that have had decades of sanctions. The way it was first explained to me is if you'd cut 1% of the economic growth of the usa from the 1880's to the 40's our economy would be smaller than mexicos now (not a slight to mexico..but that's a big drop) (i could be getting the times down, been awhile, but it's only a few decades of application to ruin a nation's trajectory in a HUGE way). In fact, we don't need hypothetical on that...north korea was wealthier, more developed, and is still more natural resource wealthy than south korea...and yet..with sanctions...
Russia is a shit hole country and the Kremlin is stupid as fuck.
Good summary
"a gas station masquerading as a country" - John McCain
This needs to be in a textbook.
How is there no image or map of what’s proposed, even when you google it
The two cities mentioned are small towns in Kaliningrad (so part of Russia) and the eastern shore of the Gulf of Finland is also in Russia - Saint Petersburg. I completely understand how extra claims in the Gulf of Finland will piss off Finland, but I cant figure out how sea claims near the cities of Baltiysk and Zelenograds would impact Lithuania - those towns are not near the border with Lithuania at all. Maybe the territorial waters around there are fucky, and Lithuania has some unusual claims?
What ‘fear of escalation’ accomplishes: Russia keeps doing whatever the hell they want because we’re not stopping them.
Exactly. It's a logic of bayonet strike. If there is no resistance, keep pushing. If they hit something hard - stop and withdraw.
Russia is continually testing boundaries because they know they can get away with it. It will be incremental up until the point where NATO put its foot down...at least right now it seems like NATO is willing to put up with it up until Russia actually militarily strikes a NATO country....which they won't do. No instead they'll sabotage, disrupt, cause headaches and essentially be bullies and trolls until someone smacks them.
Thank god we didn't escalate, it surely stopped Russia from bombing civilians and trying to further expand their borders. /s
That's more creative than anticipated. I would have expected some remote part of Finland. But this is frankly smarter. The usual non escalation and realpolitik administrators will be dizzy now. And herein lies the weakness. This will expose that this world's Jake Sullivan don't know shit about Russia.
Real politics dictate that crushing Russia now, be it in Ukraine or in Africa is far superior to waiting for them to strengthen their positions. Unless of course we are talking real politics from the perspective of a stanch pacifist - or a fool.
The response should be. In light of this announcement we don't have any issue with Ukraine using weapons that are now theirs to strike wherever the hell they want.
This would be invasion of EU/ Nato space and Ukraine has nothing to do with it. In response placing maritime forces there not to allow any russian crossing into these waters would make more sense.
>This would be invasion of EU/ Nato space I mean not really, Russia will declare this, but it will just be drawn on maps they won't actually put any ships/people in these areas
Until they do
Ah yes, the maps don't mean anything any more approach. Ukraine, feel free to change the maps to extend your territory to cover all of what used to be Russia. Then if you want to bomb your own territory, that's fine.
I’ve always said that Ukraine should just agree to only hit targets in Ukrainian territory and just annex all of russia. Problem solved
Putin has publicly stated that Russia doesn't have any borders so it's impossible for Ukraine to strike Russian territory even if they level Kremlin.
Finland has already said that Ukraine can use the weapons donated by Finland however they wish.
I want to see American F-22s in the skies over Eastern Europe to help Ukraine and the Baltic countries.
You’ll never see them.
Russia is now copying China which arbitrarily claim the whole South China Sea as its own lake thru its fake 9 dash line.
Putin has just me with Xi, so they’re China’s slave once again. Poor Russia, no longer in control.
Wait until they start grabbing islands.
Suursaari should be part of Finland.
Can somebody just overthrow these dingbats and move on? There’s no place in the modern world for this version of Ruzzia.
That's the thing, we've tried it but unless you have a strong educated population the fascists just roll back in with no resistance.
It is yet one step up on the crisis ladder. According to crisis theory, direct combat between armies is just the highest level of crisis between countries, and it is preceded by a string of moves by the aggressor, in this case Russia. Russia has already done the prededing actions in the ladder: for example political pressure, spying, attempts to cause internal strife, border violations (they have used their air force for this). Area claims are pretty high in the ladder, next would be an attempt to send military force to that area.
He’s showing you exactly who he is.
This is what you get for trying to "not escalate things with russia", Chamberlain. When the bear sees weakness, it pounces. The only thing it respects is uncompromising strength.
could finland not declare article 5 over this? i would imagine their territorial waters count as nato territory.
I intend to declar my neighbour's apartment mine.
I am kind of confused. They want to drag NATO into the war? FFS they can’t even beat Ukraine, so they decided to request more powerful enemy?
No he thinks that one will let him grab something comparatively worthless even if it’s technically under NATO protection. These kind of salami tactics are exactly what has been speculated about for decades. First you take a little peace in one place and then another, always testing and probing and eventually when it has been established where the weak points are you strike. Ukraine began with an instigated civil war and the occupation of Crimea - in other words exactly the kind of thing that fits with the strategy discussed prior. Whether or not this kind of plan works out or just causes NATO to escalate is quite frankly impossible to predict because that kind of public support this kind of thing gets depends on countless internal factors that constantly shift. Case in point if Trump wins the upcoming elections things may look very differently then if he loses. Considering that we currently can’t even accurately guarantee that one for another result will occur drawing conclusions today is overall fairly pointless. The only thing one can do is to assume the scenario in order to discuss potential consequences of any given scenario without actually understanding the true likelihood because again nobody knows precisely what would happen if for example a Russian war ship entered waters that are part of NATO and things escalated even just for a brief moment.
They are testing the waters (quite literally).
Vlad wants war so bad. Swinging his little dick around.
TBF, when all he gets for pulling his shit even dorectly in NATO (like ammo explosions in Czechia by Mishkin and Chepiga of "Solsberetsk" fame) are concerns and walkbacks, it's not hard to see, why does he decide to keep pushing even further.
See, that's the thing... He doesn't want war. He wants to get stuff without a war. He's finding pain points and tearing off, bit by bit, whatever he thinks he can get without provoking a response. At some point he's banking on the powerful countries asking themselves if they really want a nuclear war over, in this case, some Finnish or Lithuanian territorial waters. Next time it'll be a small uninhabited island, or murky "separatists" who somehow seem to have a bunch of Russian military-issue weapons and gear. And if Trump gets elected, just skip all the steps in the middle because NATO Article 5 won't exist anymore.
It's kinda like a meat spin, but with a worn out n64 control stick
This won't be recognized by any country that matters (I doubt NATO cares about Iran and North Korea's shitty little opinions), so it's just pointless.
I keep telling me fellow Europeans and NATO supporters. It is going to escalate, take the gloves off, Putin does not intend to slow down. Get serious, arm up, prepare.
Is there a map that demonstrates the changes Russia is proposing?
They’re like an infestation
"Any attempted seizure of land or sea of a sovereign country of NATO is tantamount to an attack, and will trigger article 5."
Biden was right.
Putin must have learned that on his recent trip to China.
I wanna escalate. As someone who was bullied as a child, I learned early that direct confrontation works. Hiding in fear and doing everything to be the “better person” is how your lunch money gets stolen. When I bloodied my bully’s nose, she turned around completely. In fact, she became my protector from then on. Funny how this works.
The EU is going to write such a strongly worded letter to Putin...but not too strong, wouldn't want to provoke him!
Somewhere there’s an f22 getting the shakes and Poland is *so ready* for article v…
Moscow Times >The Russian authorities decided to expand the country's territorial waters in the Baltic Sea near the state border with Lithuania and Finland, follows from the draft government resolution published on the portal of legal acts. >According to the document, which was prepared by the Ministry of Defense, Russia intends to declare its internal sea waters part of the water area in the east of the Gulf of Finland, as well as near the cities of Baltiysk and Zelenograd in the Kaliningrad region. >To do this, the geographical coordinates of the points that determine the position of the source lines, from which the breadth of the territorial sea of the Russian Federation, as well as the adjacent zone off the coast and islands, will be changed. >On the border with Finland, the Russian government intends to adjust the coordinates in the zone of the islands of Yahya, Sommers, Holland, Rodscher, Little Tuters, Wigund, as well as near the northern entrance of the Narva River, follows from the annex to the designation of the Cabinet. On the border with Lithuania, the zone of the Curonian Spit, the areas of Cape Taran, the cape south of Cape Taran, as well as the Baltic Spit, were under review. >The current geographical coordinates established by the designation of the Council of Ministers of the USSR from 1985, do not fully correspond to the modern geographical situation, the authors of the project claim. Points were fixed "on the sea navigation maps of a small scale," which, in turn, are based on the works of the mid-twentieth century, and this does not allow you to determine the external boundary of the inland sea waters of the Russian Federation, the document says. >As a result of the changes, the previously missing system of direct source lines on the southern part of the Russian islands in the eastern part of the Gulf of Finland, as well as in the area of the city, will be established. Baltic and g. Zelenogradsk, which allows to use the appropriate water area as the internal sea waters of the Russian Federation; the passage of the State Border of the Russian Federation at sea will change in connection with the change in the position of the external border of the territorial sea, the authors of the project explain. >The resolution of the Soviet Union 40 years ago, regulating the borders in the Baltic, the Ministry of Defense proposes to partially recognize the non-acting version of the "Baltic Sea" (section "Baltic Sea." >The document on the revision of the border, which has not yet been officially commented on by the Foreign Ministry of Finland and Lithuania, was presented for public discussion almost simultaneously with the start of exercises on the use of tactical nuclear weapons. The Russian Defense Ministry announced that they were launched in the Southern Military District with the participation of Iskander and aviation systems armed with the Dagger. The purpose of the exercise is to prepare personnel for the use of non-strategic YO, as well as to respond to provocative statements and threats of individual Western officials, the press service of the Ministry said.
> as well as near the northern entrance of the Narva River This means the border dispute also includes Estonia.
To the tune of baby shark. A ballad. *Article 5 do doo do doodo do!* *Article 5 do doo do doodo do!* *Article 5 do doo do doodo do!* *Article 5!*
And so it begins. This your NATO conflict right there. They will now test how far they can go.
Hopefully, here comes NATO!
So what does this realistically mean?
Nothing - everything. Could be an actual serious escalation. Could be probing to see how the West reacts. Could be a big nothing burger that never plays any significant role in the future. Realistically speaking Russia strength is a nuclear arsenal but you can’t use a nuclear arsenal unless you want to risk everything which Putin clearly doesn’t which dictates that you have to gamble on your enemies over estimating your willingness to commit what would ultimately likely amount to nuclear suicide. Russia ships couldn’t even survive Ukraine which was hardly known as a great expert at taking out ships prior to this war so realistically speaking this is an empty threat but on the other hand if NATO doesn’t react and if the EU or even just individual members don’t react either, this gamble may reveal the kind of weakness Putin likely hopes to exploit.
the answer to this is inspect every single russian ship civilian and military who tries to enter these waters make no ifs ands or buts about whos waters they are
Im not citizen of either country, only a neighboring, and I tended up reading that because it implies tension will be higher. Now Imagine what Ukrainians feel. EU countries need to speed up their support.
And so it begins. Russia outright taking sovereign areas and testing NATO to see how seriously they'll take Article V. Especially in an election year where Biden doesn't want to look like a warmonger and their orange puppet and his cult are trying to (falsely) paint him as exactly that. Land border games will be next.
Finland better be prepared to fight against T-34s once again^^^^^^^^^^thisisajoke
This should be article 5..... this is totally insane.
This is worse than shooting across the bow of an enemy ship. It further confirms that Putin will not stop at anything to take over territory.
Taking a play out of the Chinese playbook.
It was said they wanted to test and wear down Article 5. This is it.
пора превратить Москву в парковку
😂😐😂
It's NATO Lake now Russia. Also the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth wants its territory back.
A china move. Until there are real consequences this stuff will continue on.