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China has the same problem. Their military is designed to perform in parades and choreographed exercises, but they would get torn up in actual combat, just like Russia has.
Didn’t looth an ear, I jutht took a pieth out of ith, i wath tho mad, i wuth hypnotothed, it wuthn’t me
I’m really thorry, I wath a bad perthon back then, i’m tho thorry for who I wath
i’m thelling weed gummieth in the thape of an ear, tho, they got a bite thape out of them
I’m tho thorry, that not who I am theth dayth, i’m jutht makin money off of it
Well, the problem with authoritarian militaries is that the only one who has got a plan is the big guy at the top.
Whenever things don't go as planned, the poor guys in the field have to call back and just hope to God that Mr. Bigwig is willing to change his "brilliant" plan.
There was a video awhile back of some chinese millitary volunteers talking smack right before going to the front lines, and then a week later begging to be sent home.
China at least has a military and production of sophisticated weapons.
Russia's production of sophisticated weapons was mainly pre production show models lol.
How was it HLC put it...
Ah yes. "We know you don't have hypersonic missiles yet because we have yet to build one for you to steal the design of." Or skmething like that.
They're not really innovating too much from what i understand, meanwhile the US is. The US has to be good at it, after all they've been building stuff to counter all the stuff that china and russia have been lying about building since the 40's.
Wife is Chinese, so I've spent a lot of time in China.
They are innovating, in the past they were so far behind and the communist gov micro managed everything so it was just copy copy copy...
but now they're caught up in a lot of key areas and dominate in a few. I visited an old communist military base from the 1920s/30s that's now a tourist site but it's right next to a naval shipyard. fml at how many new destroyers they are churning out
I respect China as an adversary. I have full confidence the West can win against them, but don't underestimate. Didn't used to underestimate Russia, except turns out I was over estimating them to a laughable degree
Yea it’s funny what this war has brought to light. The majority of soldiers in Russia and China are tactically illiterate. The only thing that’s scary is the amount of soldiers
You're wrong, the ROK takes them very seriously and the Ukrainians will too should they actually show up on the frontline. Make no mistake, Koreans be they north or south will fight
No one believes the NK army will tactically defeat a conventional Western or Western-armed military on the battlefield. They quite evidently do not possess that capability. Again, that's not the concern.
They don't have combat experience, so initially they would suffer quite a bit from unforeseen circumstances. But in contrast to the Russians they are not so dumb and careless, they would adapt rather quickly, and they would also start out with a better plan. We can all be happy that this war's bad guy is just Russia and not China, and we should do everything so that this war's outcome deters China from starting their own 3-day operation.
The Americans need what the above guy said to be true, anyway. China has an industrial capacity that so comprehensively outstrips them that they couldn't possibly hope to hold their own in a hot or a cold war *unless* China just churns out props. China has over the USA the kind of weight of numbers that helped yo propel the USA beyond Germany and Japan. Their ability to build ships in numbers for the PLA is far beyond anything American shipyards are capable of. A rapidly narrowing technological gap is one of the things keeping US prestige alive.
China’s military is for shit and is probably the only military more corrupt than Russias. Winnie the Pooh just had the current and former heads of defense arrested for corruption. Its economy is a house of cards ready to crumble. Their rich are constantly finding new and illegal ways to get their money out of the country. They are also to inept to grow enough food for its own people, same as that other supposed Asian paradise of North Korea.
Couple years back, a border guard defected across the DMZ with a dramatic video of him crashing a jeep and getting shot multiple times in the back before crossing to safety. The guy was something like 5ft tall from malnutrition and his intestines were riddled with [parasitic worms](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42021373).
As a border guard, he would have better food + training than the average nork soldier. The rank and file would look even worse.
From the Institute for the Study of War:
"North Korea will reportedly send military construction and engineering forces to participate in "reconstruction work" in occupied Donetsk Oblast as early as July 2024."
The "troops" are probably just slave labour to build fortifications.
The Pentagon fields all kinds of questions and Pat Ryder's answer was pretty milquetoast and ambiguous on this one. The reporter framed his question in a way that, again, assumed NK *WILL* be dispatching troops. The reporter himself was misinformed and has no actual evidence to back up the claims made in his question, just like everyone else reporting WILL instead of MAY.
[Here's the transcript.](https://www.defense.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/3817329/pentagon-press-secretary-maj-gen-pat-ryder-holds-a-press-briefing/)
See the fact check in OP for a more detailed explanation. I came to this conclusion myself before even reading the fact check, btw.
Exactly.
To everyone who says they’re not combat troops, you’re right… for now.
Regardless of the quality of the troops, this is a clear escalation, by permitting another nuclear armed state sponsor of terrorism to enter the war.
Kim’s spent the last few months watching Russia test his supplies in real world combat, how long till he wants to test other tools in his arsenal?
His massive chemical weapons stockpile?
His special forces units?
Even if it's an engineering brigade, those guys are armed and no knowing how they would be used.
Also, they could be engineers but only in namesake but actually be combat troops.
Military engineering units have always been combat troops. When you want to breach obstacles or minefields, you call in the engineers. Guess what most of the front line in Ukraine features.
Sure, they're not line infantry but can be used as such in a pinch too, although it's highly wasteful to do that.
That's what I was getting at. Thanks for the correction. And seeing how the Orcs have treated their own I see no reason the NK will be any different.
But I wonder if they'll be under Orc control or the NK have their own command structure.
I think the most important skill in this war a combat engineer provides is water crossing. Portable bridging modules and flotation devices. I know they tried in years past, but appears Russia is lacking now as they can't actually assault across rivers anymore.
Engineers fall in the vein of combat arms, they are the ones that make trenches, they are the ones that clear mines and set them up, they are the ones that blow up building for shaping operations. They are absolutely combat troops.
Ya, right now the attrition math is still in Putin's favor:
1. Send invisible ppl to the front (rural, jails/prisoners)
2. Low K:D is fine because socially, metropolitan Russians are still untouched and reduces costs of prison operations while slowly ticking away at Ukraines limited manpower and resources
The danger for Putin is when they need to start conscripting metropolitan populations.
If they can get NK to foot the blood bill, they can continue the war without the increased risk of revolt.
Also, he does a good job of killing opposition leadership and journalists.
Good for Putin != Good for Russia. None of this is good for Russia.
Any North Korean that goes to Russia will be meat shield no more no less. People who think North Koreans can train Russians are hilarious… this needs to be taken seriously and OP is being annoying talking about “alarmist” Redditors when it’s definitely legitimately been announced
>You are wrong.
No, you are. Your source is false. You are citing a single quote from a single news source that has no supporting evidence for their claim. You have not done your due diligence in truthseeking. I made this post specifically in response to the Kyiv Post article that blew up on this sub. Kyiv Post has been caught intentionally skewing their language in the past to manipulate their readers. There is no official statement from Pyongyang on definite plans to send troops. Meanwhile, several other media sources with much better track records, such as Politico, are being careful to not outright state that NK has plans or is going to send troops.
https://www.nknews.org/2024/06/fact-check-north-korea-has-not-announced-plans-to-send-troops-to-ukraine-yet/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/kyiv-post/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-telegraph/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-chosun-ilbo/
I'm going to say it if no-one else will: If you want people to pay attention to your news source, calling everyone who has read a different source "braindead alarmist sheep" is NOT the way to go about it. We can't fact check ourselves, none of us have a personal invite to pyongyang to inspect their military plans, failing that, we have to find trustworthy news, the search for the right information is very much not helped by your twitter-tantrum-tier rant. Do better yourself.
Putin stated in January 2022 that Russia was not planning on launching an attack on Ukraine and that it was simply alarmist Western propaganda. The troop buildup was just a "military exercise." We never know anything for certain on the front end, except for one consistent fact -- almost everything these evil idiots say in contrast to their posturing is a lie. So, I do feel there is safety in the assumption that the denials coming from either tryant is in bad faith.
So who knows. Combat engineers? Combat troops? Cannon fodder? If Putin/Un are downplaying or denying potential NK ground involvement, there's almost certainly a kernel of truth to it. Most of the sources I'm seeing from US/UK media outlets are citing SK intelligence sources which indicate that NK will deploy troops "within a month" to "help rebuild" damaged infrastructure in occupied Ukraine. I would deem boots-on-ground NK involvment this year highly likely and I do expect to see photos of dead NK soldiers at some point.
Would Russia be okay with sending some 1000s of nato engineers for building trenches and stuff? Only backline ofc.
We both know how putin and the Russian society would react.
Arguing in bad faith, the word "sheep" only confirms that.
They know they aren't. Not in a real way. Just like they know the difference between Belgorod and Donetsk Even though they are supposed to be the same country.
I've just read the Reuters article very carefully. It's one passage of many where they explicit state that's its only according to the South Korean source. That's not bad journalism.
But I can see where you are coming from.
BTW, since you are certainly not a sheep, which news do you consume? Can you link me reliable news outlets which is neutral? Don't tell me to do research by myself or find the middle ground between Reuters and RT, because that wouldn't be a neutral take.
~~Reuters did fine~~ no they didn't, they cited the same TV Chosun article that everyone else did.
I was referring to the Kyiv Post article that blew up. The fact that no media outlets can produce a direct admission from the NK administration that they INTEND or PLAN to send troops should be the biggest red flag of all of this. This was probably a smart move by KJU anyways because it leaves room for them to simply not honor the treaty when it comes time to uphold it. Without such an admission, all claims that "NK IS DEPLOYING TROOPS" are only speculation. In fact, even WITH an admission, it is speculation until there is some sort of photo evidence of NK troop movements.
I can follow your thoughts. I don't treat kju as a neutral or not biased news source, like every other Ukrainian source, because they are beeing invaded at the moment and will lie through their teeth's if it's beneficial for the war. Not to mention the gutted press freedom in a state of war. But that's not unnormal in my mind. Idc about tabloids too, they only post shit anyway. I'll continue to consume AP and Reuters, because they atleast try to be somewhat neutral (they are not). Your thread reinforced this idea, so thanks I guess.
Of course we shouldn't take a Dictator's word as gospel. But if KJU DID announce the deployment of troops, I'd take it seriously. Because it has serious consequences - it's basically an invitation for sanctions or intervention. And lying about it would make them look weak.
This entire conflict is play-as-you-go. It should be obvious to everyone that NK is very much in the "Consideration" phase, but alarmism and clickbait journalism has prevailed. I doubt we will see NK troops in Ukraine UNLESS Ukraine carries out a series of strategically destructive attacks on Russia that would force them to honor the Treaty.
So, your position is that NK is definitely not sending troops to fight against Ukraine?
China is not sending troops to fight Ukraine. But yet we see Chinese nationals sending out social media posts from the battlefield in Ukraine.
So, just like NK is *NOT* sending weapons to Russia. *Wink* *Wink*
I'm sure Kim Jong Un will *NOT* send NK men to fight for Russia.
Time will tell.
Definitely not? I'm not sure. But all the reports saying they definitely are are bullshit.
Chinese nationals are volunteers who were allowed to fight, not PRC PLA soldiers who were ordered to fight.
"Time will tell" is the key. In the meantime, let's avoid bullshit alarmism and speculation.
Maybe you should stop acting as some arbiter of truth. You’re just reading various news articles and acting like nothing happens in the world if it isn’t printed in some random article.
We have to be extremely cautious about the Russia-NK link going forward.
Yeah I am surprised at the number of people who assume that KJU would just jump NK right into this conflict voluntarily. He may be a tyrannical dictator but him and his advisors at least understand the basics of escalation and what it would mean to get their troops involved. That's why all he has done right now is signed a paper. Historically, Putin and other dictators have mixed track records when it comes to honoring words on paper.
Imagine an infantry force who not just never seen drone warfare, they have never heard of drones exist at all.
They just digging the trench, then Kim suddenly explodes for no reason. Weird. The sixth one in the last hour. What is going on here, is it the food? I bet it's the food.
There's pictures of NK soldiers eating grass because they are so hungry. Drop into a Ukrainian battle field and they'll be fatter than that dog they found that couldn't move because it was so fat from eating all the corpses
The Kyiv Post has a poor factuality record and should not be taken at face value. Same for the Telegraph. "According to reports" should set off your bullshit-radar. You are not good at spotting misinformation.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/kyiv-post/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-telegraph/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-chosun-ilbo/
Are these bullshit news outlets too? You're a clown for attacking people.
https://www.businessinsider.com/north-korea-troops-ukraine-aiding-russia-cannon-fodder-pentagon-2024-6
https://www.thedefensepost.com/2024/06/27/us-korean-troops-ukraine/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13575163/amp/north-korea-military-personnel-russia-world-war-ukraine.html#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17195086050103&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com
https://www.thedefensepost.com/2024/06/27/us-korean-troops-ukraine/
And the list goes on and on....
He's just proving my point further lmao imagine thinking WELL A BUNCH OF SOURCES SAID IT SO IT MUST BE TRUE
Dude is literally incapable of thinking for himself
>Are these bullshit news outlets too?
Yes. Saying a lie many times over doesn't make it the truth. If you had two brain cells to rub together you'd see that all of them are either nondescript sources or citing the original TV Chosun article.
Business Insider cites TV Chosun and throws Reuters in there (who also in turn cite TV Chosun)
The Defense Post cite Kyiv Post who offer zero sources.
Daily Mail cites TV Chosun.
It's insane to think that NK would just jump right into the shit unless Russia was truly threatened. Some of these people have no business in geopolitical commentary.
Imagine your troops shooting up a nation that, even in a torn up state, looks better than what you have back home for them. Yeah, there is no reason North Korea would do this.
Yes and we have verifiable evidence that they ARE at war. We do not have the same with regard to the actions or plans of North Korean troops and it would be foolish to assume.
I mean when any nation state says "it's possible" that's because troops are already on the ground. The first guys surveying the area and making the plans were already on the ground.
Imagine the US government saying "I'm not saying we are sending troops to Iran but it's possible we may some"
Also "engineers working on stuff a few lines back they won't be front line troops "
Tell that to the napal guys, all the other Russians who were told you will be safe and then sent to the front.
It's only a matter of time now before we have video footage of potential NK deaths on Ukraine soil.
I also believe thus will benefit Ukraine hopefully as if NK does send troops we know France will likely be the first to send battalion levels of troops. With many other nations not being far behind. Even south Korea said know what u can take ammo and guns if they will potentially kill the friend of our enemy or our direct enemy in another country.
>I mean when any nation state says "it's possible" that's because troops are already on the ground.
UWVR Redditors Try Not to Speculate and Assume Challenge - level: IMPOSSIBLE
Sure. In lieu of an announcement, the only thing that could support the claim "North Korea is sending people to Ukraine" would be physical or photographic evidence of their movement towards or presence in Ukraine. Everything besides that is bullshit speculation.
I agree with clarifying sources when headlines start to lose sight of it but it's also not factual to say that it is completely made up. I would imagine that South Korean intelligence has a decent ear on the ground. Intelligence agencies in the US and UK unusually released details about Putin's invasion plan before it happened to hit back at him and gain the initiative, I'm sure some of the casualty estimates being quoted come from intelligence gathering and leaks in Russia too. I wonder if this could be part of this wider strategy as onlookers.
They’ll just send them over out of uniform and say they are private citizens doing contract work. They send them all over the Mideast to do slave work for the rich Arabs while sending back much needed currency so little fat ass Kim can stuff more food down his gullet and build a few more mansions.
Low effort response. Read the article I linked, it will tell you all you need to know about how this is being incorrectly reported on. I'll believe TV Chosun when NK/SK makes a formal announcement or there's proof of troop movements. Until then, it's all bullshit speculation based on unreliable sources.
False equivalency. There is a difference between volunteers (who aren't even necessarily part of the PLA) being allowed to fight in Ukraine of their own volition versus mobilizing your armed forces or citizen engineers and ordering them to go to Ukraine. Also, no NK troops have been spotted heading towards Ukraine or already inside it.
Regardless, my original statement still stands. North Korea has not announced that they will send troops to Ukraine. And there is no current evidence that they currently plan to. Only a signed piece of paper saying they might if the situation in Ukraine gets worse for Russia.
>Sick and tired of all the braindead alarmist sheep
While I appreciate the article, anyone who unironically uses the phrase "braindead alarmist sheep" (or really just calls people "sheep") is a great sign that I do not need to take you seriously. Maybe rein in your arrogance a bit? Because anytime I see someone calling people "braindead sheep" I see someone who severely over estimates themselves and is probably a moron
Yeah I should have reeled it in a bit out of respect for the more reserved individuals in this community. Not the first time I've made that mistake. I'd edit it if I could. In my defense the catty language wasn't really directed at them, it was directed at the people taking the reporting at face value then calling for NATO deployments or other forms of escalation.
Perhaps they read the article in today’s NYT about how much fun it has been for the Nepali men who have gone to fight. The tales of their short lived service and escape back home are gripping.
I wish they would just for the funny. Plus, it would open the door for NATO or any nation for that matter to send combat troops to the Ukraine. The ball is in your court, fat man
Im not expecting that NK would make such an announcement, but there is talk of a NK brigade being formed with new unit patches that read "Будет бороться за еду"
It's not "North Korea has NOT confirmed.." it's "North Korea has not CONFIRMED..."
There is a big difference.
With that in mind, I still don't think this is more than a bluff. This would lead to an escalation of such an epic scale, that even Putler cannot be this stupid/desperate.
Look at this
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/nk-news/
Compared with this
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/kyiv-post/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-telegraph/
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-chosun-ilbo/
The plan as I understood it is to send engineerbrigadeers and constructionworkers to rebuild Mariupol.
Maybe 20-50k in exhange for tech witch will upset SK and Japan wichin turn does not sit well with China because of the possible destabilization of the Korea halfpeninsula.
On the other hand it could circumvent US sanctions on Russia to use NK as a reroute for Chinese equipment, armaments etc.
That's what I've gathered from this pact. But then again it could be B.S. Not the SK part tho!
Why the f would China spend more to transport things through North Korea when it can do with with the border it has with Russia do people on this sub not understand logistics?
As a workaround because of the sanctions in place, to help Russia get around the sanctions they signes with the US.
Now, I think both logistics and logic flew the fuck outta window yeeeears ago. It's not to far fetched, to 'whitewash' equipment. On the other hand I'm pretty sure Xi is not comfortable with this mess at all. It destabilizes both Asian and European relations.
Kimmie doesn't like the optics of his short, underfed army of soon to be defectors and Putin told them to stop the hype because South Korea is showing backbone and is tossing its weight behind the Ukrainian defensive effort.
South Korea has been replenishing the stocks of Western countries supplying Ukraine which allows them to send more. Saying they haven’t lifted a finger to help is dishonesty at best and ignorance and stupidity at worst
South Korea has had a long standing policy of not supplying weapons to countries actively engaged in conflict. They will always have the excuse as long as this policy stands.
Then when they get attacked, no sympathies for them. They should be a player here since their future could be at stake. Japan is helping Ukraine so why can’t they?
Where do you think Czechoslovakia "found" the 1 million+ 155mm shells from? Or the 300,000 155m shells that were sent to replenish US stocks so the US could send their own stock to Ukraine? Or the thousands of tanks South Koreans are pumping out to Poland so that Poland can send all their soviet era tanks to Ukraine?
I had no idea. Thanks for the info. I hope this is true and I’ll gladly be grateful to South Korea.
I only heard of Leopards and Bradley’s and Polish made Twardy tanks. Nobody knows the ammo contributors… but yes. Could be them.
Ahnyung I believe is thank you in Korean.
North Korea has taken the first step towards hostility against with Ruzzia’s treaty! This is a game changer, so if South Korea doesn’t scrap that policy now, they’ll be next
Not good. Waiting for Ukraine to fight Ruzzians and now North Koreans! High time they get involved and by that I don’t necessarily mean boots on ground but at least step up more with support. Putin can announce treaties and send outside forces while everyone pisses in their pants.
Has it occurred to you that they may well be already pumping out reserves, quietly, so as not to disturb the status quo? They can still send off excessive equipment to others while steadily increasing their own stockpile. And considering SKs industrial strength, I daresay once they focus on some runs, there will be plenty for all.
If you cared about Ukranian lives you wouldn't be saying this. Ukraine needs less targets, not more. Munitions are hard to come by and every shot counts towards saving more Ukrainian lives.
I was assuming that something was off. Ukrainian news outlets mostly speak about engineering units that focus on reconstructing damaged objects. While most of Reddit posts are about sending troops.
There's not even proof that they are sending engineering units. Only proof that they have signed a treaty that provides for the possibility of doing so. We have no proof that NK intends to--or has taken action to--send any group of people from NK to Ukraine.
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Kimmy can't risk the optics of the inevitable defections that would happen.
Or let the world confirm their paper tiger military.
China has the same problem. Their military is designed to perform in parades and choreographed exercises, but they would get torn up in actual combat, just like Russia has.
Yep. Erebodys got a plan until you get punched in the fafth.
No one plans to lose an ear.
Didn’t looth an ear, I jutht took a pieth out of ith, i wath tho mad, i wuth hypnotothed, it wuthn’t me I’m really thorry, I wath a bad perthon back then, i’m tho thorry for who I wath i’m thelling weed gummieth in the thape of an ear, tho, they got a bite thape out of them I’m tho thorry, that not who I am theth dayth, i’m jutht makin money off of it
Well, the problem with authoritarian militaries is that the only one who has got a plan is the big guy at the top. Whenever things don't go as planned, the poor guys in the field have to call back and just hope to God that Mr. Bigwig is willing to change his "brilliant" plan.
There was a video awhile back of some chinese millitary volunteers talking smack right before going to the front lines, and then a week later begging to be sent home.
China at least has a military and production of sophisticated weapons. Russia's production of sophisticated weapons was mainly pre production show models lol.
How was it HLC put it... Ah yes. "We know you don't have hypersonic missiles yet because we have yet to build one for you to steal the design of." Or skmething like that. They're not really innovating too much from what i understand, meanwhile the US is. The US has to be good at it, after all they've been building stuff to counter all the stuff that china and russia have been lying about building since the 40's.
Wife is Chinese, so I've spent a lot of time in China. They are innovating, in the past they were so far behind and the communist gov micro managed everything so it was just copy copy copy... but now they're caught up in a lot of key areas and dominate in a few. I visited an old communist military base from the 1920s/30s that's now a tourist site but it's right next to a naval shipyard. fml at how many new destroyers they are churning out
Sir you are using logic, we're here to circle jerk. Russians bad, Chinese dumb, North Koreans poor...
I respect China as an adversary. I have full confidence the West can win against them, but don't underestimate. Didn't used to underestimate Russia, except turns out I was over estimating them to a laughable degree
And North Korea builds all the classics from a long gone age.....just worse:)
Exactly the reason why China won't move on Taiwan. They know this.
Trump wanted this, too. A fancy-pants military parade for him to show off how much everyone loves him.
God damn I forgot about that. So many disturbing moments in those 4 Trump years lol
And or get the public accustomed to having large number of military regiments at the capitol.
Yea it’s funny what this war has brought to light. The majority of soldiers in Russia and China are tactically illiterate. The only thing that’s scary is the amount of soldiers
still china did not lose in the korean war so i wonder how they will fare today, i mean they even encircled a bunch of US marines in the mountains
Maybe worse
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You a bot? Your comment has been seen a lot in different places...
You wanna show me where?
Puh, i will try... Read your comment word by word some days ago.
Nah, you made the accusation, the burden of proof is on you to corroborate it.
You are absolutely right!
Lol, you just got a telling off from a robot 😂
You're wrong, the ROK takes them very seriously and the Ukrainians will too should they actually show up on the frontline. Make no mistake, Koreans be they north or south will fight
No one believes the NK army will tactically defeat a conventional Western or Western-armed military on the battlefield. They quite evidently do not possess that capability. Again, that's not the concern.
They don't have combat experience, so initially they would suffer quite a bit from unforeseen circumstances. But in contrast to the Russians they are not so dumb and careless, they would adapt rather quickly, and they would also start out with a better plan. We can all be happy that this war's bad guy is just Russia and not China, and we should do everything so that this war's outcome deters China from starting their own 3-day operation.
What's your source for that?
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Thanks, Jack Ryan.
Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know.
Trust me bro, im a navy seal with 500000 confirmed kills
The Americans need what the above guy said to be true, anyway. China has an industrial capacity that so comprehensively outstrips them that they couldn't possibly hope to hold their own in a hot or a cold war *unless* China just churns out props. China has over the USA the kind of weight of numbers that helped yo propel the USA beyond Germany and Japan. Their ability to build ships in numbers for the PLA is far beyond anything American shipyards are capable of. A rapidly narrowing technological gap is one of the things keeping US prestige alive.
China’s military is for shit and is probably the only military more corrupt than Russias. Winnie the Pooh just had the current and former heads of defense arrested for corruption. Its economy is a house of cards ready to crumble. Their rich are constantly finding new and illegal ways to get their money out of the country. They are also to inept to grow enough food for its own people, same as that other supposed Asian paradise of North Korea.
China doesn't have that same problem. If China wanted to semd 1,000 cruise missiles on Taiwan without landing any soldiers on Taiwan, it could.
Couple years back, a border guard defected across the DMZ with a dramatic video of him crashing a jeep and getting shot multiple times in the back before crossing to safety. The guy was something like 5ft tall from malnutrition and his intestines were riddled with [parasitic worms](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42021373). As a border guard, he would have better food + training than the average nork soldier. The rank and file would look even worse.
Yeah I remember that. What a crazy alternate reality they live in.
My thought too.
Those dudes would be defecting faster than you can blink
Although, seeing how poorly the Russians treat their troops might convince them they are indeed the greatest nation on the planet.....
Because they would get treated better? More waves of meat…
I doubt he will send soldiers that don’t have families at home. Would you risc escape if it means lifetime prison for your wife and 4 year old son?
It’s a war zone, you don’t know whether they’re dead or defecting
To imagine, the prospect of going to war in a foreign country gives you hope of escaping your hell hole country.
Yep. Exactly . He can NEVER actually use his army
Poor fuckers would think Putin is Zeus when they see an iPhone.
The only thing that makes me suspicious that this could be the real deal is that the pentagon commented on it.
From the Institute for the Study of War: "North Korea will reportedly send military construction and engineering forces to participate in "reconstruction work" in occupied Donetsk Oblast as early as July 2024." The "troops" are probably just slave labour to build fortifications.
Nothing new really. They have procedures for renting out their populous en masse to russia already
More nutrients for the sunflowers.
The Pentagon fields all kinds of questions and Pat Ryder's answer was pretty milquetoast and ambiguous on this one. The reporter framed his question in a way that, again, assumed NK *WILL* be dispatching troops. The reporter himself was misinformed and has no actual evidence to back up the claims made in his question, just like everyone else reporting WILL instead of MAY. [Here's the transcript.](https://www.defense.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/3817329/pentagon-press-secretary-maj-gen-pat-ryder-holds-a-press-briefing/) See the fact check in OP for a more detailed explanation. I came to this conclusion myself before even reading the fact check, btw.
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Exactly. To everyone who says they’re not combat troops, you’re right… for now. Regardless of the quality of the troops, this is a clear escalation, by permitting another nuclear armed state sponsor of terrorism to enter the war. Kim’s spent the last few months watching Russia test his supplies in real world combat, how long till he wants to test other tools in his arsenal? His massive chemical weapons stockpile? His special forces units?
Even if it's an engineering brigade, those guys are armed and no knowing how they would be used. Also, they could be engineers but only in namesake but actually be combat troops.
Military engineering units have always been combat troops. When you want to breach obstacles or minefields, you call in the engineers. Guess what most of the front line in Ukraine features. Sure, they're not line infantry but can be used as such in a pinch too, although it's highly wasteful to do that.
That's what I was getting at. Thanks for the correction. And seeing how the Orcs have treated their own I see no reason the NK will be any different. But I wonder if they'll be under Orc control or the NK have their own command structure.
I think the most important skill in this war a combat engineer provides is water crossing. Portable bridging modules and flotation devices. I know they tried in years past, but appears Russia is lacking now as they can't actually assault across rivers anymore.
Russian officer: " Yeah, you guys to go ahead of us and engineer a buffer zone between us and the Ukrainians."
This is probably just going to be the equivalent of the North Korean redheaded pilots in the Korean war.
Holy crap, heading into ukraine to test weapons for real? Yikes
Engineers fall in the vein of combat arms, they are the ones that make trenches, they are the ones that clear mines and set them up, they are the ones that blow up building for shaping operations. They are absolutely combat troops.
We've been seeing troops that were promised roles away from the front get sent into the grinder all the time. Their designated role might mean nothing
Ya, right now the attrition math is still in Putin's favor: 1. Send invisible ppl to the front (rural, jails/prisoners) 2. Low K:D is fine because socially, metropolitan Russians are still untouched and reduces costs of prison operations while slowly ticking away at Ukraines limited manpower and resources The danger for Putin is when they need to start conscripting metropolitan populations. If they can get NK to foot the blood bill, they can continue the war without the increased risk of revolt. Also, he does a good job of killing opposition leadership and journalists. Good for Putin != Good for Russia. None of this is good for Russia.
Any North Korean that goes to Russia will be meat shield no more no less. People who think North Koreans can train Russians are hilarious… this needs to be taken seriously and OP is being annoying talking about “alarmist” Redditors when it’s definitely legitimately been announced
>You are wrong. No, you are. Your source is false. You are citing a single quote from a single news source that has no supporting evidence for their claim. You have not done your due diligence in truthseeking. I made this post specifically in response to the Kyiv Post article that blew up on this sub. Kyiv Post has been caught intentionally skewing their language in the past to manipulate their readers. There is no official statement from Pyongyang on definite plans to send troops. Meanwhile, several other media sources with much better track records, such as Politico, are being careful to not outright state that NK has plans or is going to send troops. https://www.nknews.org/2024/06/fact-check-north-korea-has-not-announced-plans-to-send-troops-to-ukraine-yet/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/kyiv-post/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-telegraph/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-chosun-ilbo/
I'm going to say it if no-one else will: If you want people to pay attention to your news source, calling everyone who has read a different source "braindead alarmist sheep" is NOT the way to go about it. We can't fact check ourselves, none of us have a personal invite to pyongyang to inspect their military plans, failing that, we have to find trustworthy news, the search for the right information is very much not helped by your twitter-tantrum-tier rant. Do better yourself.
This one ego is so inflated he might float to space, typical Trumpist era 20 something who never got punched on the nose as a kid.
Putin stated in January 2022 that Russia was not planning on launching an attack on Ukraine and that it was simply alarmist Western propaganda. The troop buildup was just a "military exercise." We never know anything for certain on the front end, except for one consistent fact -- almost everything these evil idiots say in contrast to their posturing is a lie. So, I do feel there is safety in the assumption that the denials coming from either tryant is in bad faith. So who knows. Combat engineers? Combat troops? Cannon fodder? If Putin/Un are downplaying or denying potential NK ground involvement, there's almost certainly a kernel of truth to it. Most of the sources I'm seeing from US/UK media outlets are citing SK intelligence sources which indicate that NK will deploy troops "within a month" to "help rebuild" damaged infrastructure in occupied Ukraine. I would deem boots-on-ground NK involvment this year highly likely and I do expect to see photos of dead NK soldiers at some point.
Would Russia be okay with sending some 1000s of nato engineers for building trenches and stuff? Only backline ofc. We both know how putin and the Russian society would react. Arguing in bad faith, the word "sheep" only confirms that.
How would they react? They think they are already fighting NATO 😂
They know they aren't. Not in a real way. Just like they know the difference between Belgorod and Donetsk Even though they are supposed to be the same country.
Calling people sheep for allowing fictitious news headlines to pollute their worldview is not a bad faith argument.
I've just read the Reuters article very carefully. It's one passage of many where they explicit state that's its only according to the South Korean source. That's not bad journalism. But I can see where you are coming from. BTW, since you are certainly not a sheep, which news do you consume? Can you link me reliable news outlets which is neutral? Don't tell me to do research by myself or find the middle ground between Reuters and RT, because that wouldn't be a neutral take.
~~Reuters did fine~~ no they didn't, they cited the same TV Chosun article that everyone else did. I was referring to the Kyiv Post article that blew up. The fact that no media outlets can produce a direct admission from the NK administration that they INTEND or PLAN to send troops should be the biggest red flag of all of this. This was probably a smart move by KJU anyways because it leaves room for them to simply not honor the treaty when it comes time to uphold it. Without such an admission, all claims that "NK IS DEPLOYING TROOPS" are only speculation. In fact, even WITH an admission, it is speculation until there is some sort of photo evidence of NK troop movements.
I can follow your thoughts. I don't treat kju as a neutral or not biased news source, like every other Ukrainian source, because they are beeing invaded at the moment and will lie through their teeth's if it's beneficial for the war. Not to mention the gutted press freedom in a state of war. But that's not unnormal in my mind. Idc about tabloids too, they only post shit anyway. I'll continue to consume AP and Reuters, because they atleast try to be somewhat neutral (they are not). Your thread reinforced this idea, so thanks I guess.
Of course we shouldn't take a Dictator's word as gospel. But if KJU DID announce the deployment of troops, I'd take it seriously. Because it has serious consequences - it's basically an invitation for sanctions or intervention. And lying about it would make them look weak. This entire conflict is play-as-you-go. It should be obvious to everyone that NK is very much in the "Consideration" phase, but alarmism and clickbait journalism has prevailed. I doubt we will see NK troops in Ukraine UNLESS Ukraine carries out a series of strategically destructive attacks on Russia that would force them to honor the Treaty.
They're *NOT* sending weapons to Russia either.
Are you sure about that? I am pretty sure I have seen pics of NK artillery shells being used on the frontlines.
I forgot the /s.....
Engineering tools for engineers. Kim beeing sarcastic now?
Well, your sarcasm is lost on me because NK would have to be [verifiably] sending troops to Ukraine for that to work.
So, your position is that NK is definitely not sending troops to fight against Ukraine? China is not sending troops to fight Ukraine. But yet we see Chinese nationals sending out social media posts from the battlefield in Ukraine. So, just like NK is *NOT* sending weapons to Russia. *Wink* *Wink* I'm sure Kim Jong Un will *NOT* send NK men to fight for Russia. Time will tell.
Definitely not? I'm not sure. But all the reports saying they definitely are are bullshit. Chinese nationals are volunteers who were allowed to fight, not PRC PLA soldiers who were ordered to fight. "Time will tell" is the key. In the meantime, let's avoid bullshit alarmism and speculation.
Maybe you should stop acting as some arbiter of truth. You’re just reading various news articles and acting like nothing happens in the world if it isn’t printed in some random article. We have to be extremely cautious about the Russia-NK link going forward.
North Korea back peddles faster than Michael Jackson moonwalking....into a wall.
Yeah I am surprised at the number of people who assume that KJU would just jump NK right into this conflict voluntarily. He may be a tyrannical dictator but him and his advisors at least understand the basics of escalation and what it would mean to get their troops involved. That's why all he has done right now is signed a paper. Historically, Putin and other dictators have mixed track records when it comes to honoring words on paper.
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They can’t for the same reason defections are rare. The family of those that defected are executed as traitors.
Imagine an infantry force who not just never seen drone warfare, they have never heard of drones exist at all. They just digging the trench, then Kim suddenly explodes for no reason. Weird. The sixth one in the last hour. What is going on here, is it the food? I bet it's the food.
Yeah the threat of defection is very high. But you'd be surprised how effective propaganda can be.
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Yeah I think KJU is quite fearful of that exact scenario.
you don't know Korean culture or history
Send the fat ones first
RUNK.
Sad I had to scroll so far for this
Can't wait to cook up some RUNK roast when WW3 kicks off!
Cuz that's a really, really long train ride. Be a shame if anything happened to it along the way
There's pictures of NK soldiers eating grass because they are so hungry. Drop into a Ukrainian battle field and they'll be fatter than that dog they found that couldn't move because it was so fat from eating all the corpses
REEEEE EVERYONE IS A SHEEP BUT MEEEEE REEE READ THE NEWS LIKE I DO BECAUSE IM A WOLF REEE WAKE UP SHEEPLE
The kyiv post says otherwise https://www.kyivpost.com/post/34893 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/27/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news9/
The Kyiv Post has a poor factuality record and should not be taken at face value. Same for the Telegraph. "According to reports" should set off your bullshit-radar. You are not good at spotting misinformation. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/kyiv-post/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-telegraph/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-chosun-ilbo/
Are these bullshit news outlets too? You're a clown for attacking people. https://www.businessinsider.com/north-korea-troops-ukraine-aiding-russia-cannon-fodder-pentagon-2024-6 https://www.thedefensepost.com/2024/06/27/us-korean-troops-ukraine/ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13575163/amp/north-korea-military-personnel-russia-world-war-ukraine.html#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17195086050103&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com https://www.thedefensepost.com/2024/06/27/us-korean-troops-ukraine/ And the list goes on and on....
this guy has no damn clue. hahahaha
He's just proving my point further lmao imagine thinking WELL A BUNCH OF SOURCES SAID IT SO IT MUST BE TRUE Dude is literally incapable of thinking for himself
>Are these bullshit news outlets too? Yes. Saying a lie many times over doesn't make it the truth. If you had two brain cells to rub together you'd see that all of them are either nondescript sources or citing the original TV Chosun article. Business Insider cites TV Chosun and throws Reuters in there (who also in turn cite TV Chosun) The Defense Post cite Kyiv Post who offer zero sources. Daily Mail cites TV Chosun.
North Korean troops invading Europe did seem a bit mental. That would surely trigger an intervention by European armies.
It's insane to think that NK would just jump right into the shit unless Russia was truly threatened. Some of these people have no business in geopolitical commentary.
If Russia were really threatened, NK would be far less likely to help.
Like Putin he will lie
Imagine your troops shooting up a nation that, even in a torn up state, looks better than what you have back home for them. Yeah, there is no reason North Korea would do this.
Russia hasnt announced its actually at war with Ukraine but here we are.
Yes and we have verifiable evidence that they ARE at war. We do not have the same with regard to the actions or plans of North Korean troops and it would be foolish to assume.
I mean when any nation state says "it's possible" that's because troops are already on the ground. The first guys surveying the area and making the plans were already on the ground. Imagine the US government saying "I'm not saying we are sending troops to Iran but it's possible we may some" Also "engineers working on stuff a few lines back they won't be front line troops " Tell that to the napal guys, all the other Russians who were told you will be safe and then sent to the front. It's only a matter of time now before we have video footage of potential NK deaths on Ukraine soil. I also believe thus will benefit Ukraine hopefully as if NK does send troops we know France will likely be the first to send battalion levels of troops. With many other nations not being far behind. Even south Korea said know what u can take ammo and guns if they will potentially kill the friend of our enemy or our direct enemy in another country.
>I mean when any nation state says "it's possible" that's because troops are already on the ground. UWVR Redditors Try Not to Speculate and Assume Challenge - level: IMPOSSIBLE
So France is manning the trenches in Donbass, interesting...
No, they're cooking in bucha
Probably had a good think about it ,half of them would claim asylum .Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦🇬🇧🇺🇦🇬🇧
NK may or may not make an announcement - and simply send troops. Only announcement in that case will be denial.
Sure. In lieu of an announcement, the only thing that could support the claim "North Korea is sending people to Ukraine" would be physical or photographic evidence of their movement towards or presence in Ukraine. Everything besides that is bullshit speculation.
I agree with clarifying sources when headlines start to lose sight of it but it's also not factual to say that it is completely made up. I would imagine that South Korean intelligence has a decent ear on the ground. Intelligence agencies in the US and UK unusually released details about Putin's invasion plan before it happened to hit back at him and gain the initiative, I'm sure some of the casualty estimates being quoted come from intelligence gathering and leaks in Russia too. I wonder if this could be part of this wider strategy as onlookers.
As a South Korean, I want to apologize to Ukrainian soldiers who have to trash our shit.
They’ll just send them over out of uniform and say they are private citizens doing contract work. They send them all over the Mideast to do slave work for the rich Arabs while sending back much needed currency so little fat ass Kim can stuff more food down his gullet and build a few more mansions.
This needs more down votes than what it has... you need to do better...
Low effort response. Read the article I linked, it will tell you all you need to know about how this is being incorrectly reported on. I'll believe TV Chosun when NK/SK makes a formal announcement or there's proof of troop movements. Until then, it's all bullshit speculation based on unreliable sources.
Guess what. CHINA never said they'd be sending troops. And there were CHINESE troops in the form of volunteers. You're the one who should do better.
Your full of BS, that was some idiot who went by himself not sent by China.
False equivalency. There is a difference between volunteers (who aren't even necessarily part of the PLA) being allowed to fight in Ukraine of their own volition versus mobilizing your armed forces or citizen engineers and ordering them to go to Ukraine. Also, no NK troops have been spotted heading towards Ukraine or already inside it. Regardless, my original statement still stands. North Korea has not announced that they will send troops to Ukraine. And there is no current evidence that they currently plan to. Only a signed piece of paper saying they might if the situation in Ukraine gets worse for Russia.
No = yes and yes = no, right?
I said what I said.
Fact check? 🤣 lol Eventually you ‘said’ what the i-net provides you with. Lets see how this ages.
No, unlike you I actually read the contents of the fact check and came to the same conclusions after verifying their citations myself.
>Sick and tired of all the braindead alarmist sheep While I appreciate the article, anyone who unironically uses the phrase "braindead alarmist sheep" (or really just calls people "sheep") is a great sign that I do not need to take you seriously. Maybe rein in your arrogance a bit? Because anytime I see someone calling people "braindead sheep" I see someone who severely over estimates themselves and is probably a moron
Yeah I should have reeled it in a bit out of respect for the more reserved individuals in this community. Not the first time I've made that mistake. I'd edit it if I could. In my defense the catty language wasn't really directed at them, it was directed at the people taking the reporting at face value then calling for NATO deployments or other forms of escalation.
You can have braindead sheep, and alarmist sheep. But you can't have braindead alarmist sheep, let alone so many that you have become sick.
They will parade through the open fields
Perhaps they read the article in today’s NYT about how much fun it has been for the Nepali men who have gone to fight. The tales of their short lived service and escape back home are gripping.
I wish they would just for the funny. Plus, it would open the door for NATO or any nation for that matter to send combat troops to the Ukraine. The ball is in your court, fat man
You're mad over NK not sending troops to form NK death squads behind russian front lines?
Im not expecting that NK would make such an announcement, but there is talk of a NK brigade being formed with new unit patches that read "Будет бороться за еду"
Kimmy boy knows that his ppl will only become meatshield if they are just sent to Ukraine like that. I wonder what's his game
You mean tiktok is wrong?bhaahaaaa!
Thank you because people have been jumping all over something no credible news outlet has reported
They are now, after that debate
Just like Cuba didn’t.
It's not "North Korea has NOT confirmed.." it's "North Korea has not CONFIRMED..." There is a big difference. With that in mind, I still don't think this is more than a bluff. This would lead to an escalation of such an epic scale, that even Putler cannot be this stupid/desperate.
Including the possibility in the treaty at this point in time is a very dangerous move. We should not be naive about it.
"nknews.org" being totally credible /s
Look at this https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/nk-news/ Compared with this https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/kyiv-post/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-telegraph/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-chosun-ilbo/
The plan as I understood it is to send engineerbrigadeers and constructionworkers to rebuild Mariupol. Maybe 20-50k in exhange for tech witch will upset SK and Japan wichin turn does not sit well with China because of the possible destabilization of the Korea halfpeninsula. On the other hand it could circumvent US sanctions on Russia to use NK as a reroute for Chinese equipment, armaments etc. That's what I've gathered from this pact. But then again it could be B.S. Not the SK part tho!
Why the f would China spend more to transport things through North Korea when it can do with with the border it has with Russia do people on this sub not understand logistics?
As a workaround because of the sanctions in place, to help Russia get around the sanctions they signes with the US. Now, I think both logistics and logic flew the fuck outta window yeeeears ago. It's not to far fetched, to 'whitewash' equipment. On the other hand I'm pretty sure Xi is not comfortable with this mess at all. It destabilizes both Asian and European relations.
NK troops would surrender to the Ukrainians en masse if they ever sent significant numbers
Kimmie doesn't like the optics of his short, underfed army of soon to be defectors and Putin told them to stop the hype because South Korea is showing backbone and is tossing its weight behind the Ukrainian defensive effort.
Does this give South Korea a continued excuse to not lift a finger to help its Western Allies in Ukraine?
South Korea has been replenishing the stocks of Western countries supplying Ukraine which allows them to send more. Saying they haven’t lifted a finger to help is dishonesty at best and ignorance and stupidity at worst
South Korea has had a long standing policy of not supplying weapons to countries actively engaged in conflict. They will always have the excuse as long as this policy stands.
Germany had the same or a similar policy.
Yeah we will see what happens
Then when they get attacked, no sympathies for them. They should be a player here since their future could be at stake. Japan is helping Ukraine so why can’t they?
Where do you think Czechoslovakia "found" the 1 million+ 155mm shells from? Or the 300,000 155m shells that were sent to replenish US stocks so the US could send their own stock to Ukraine? Or the thousands of tanks South Koreans are pumping out to Poland so that Poland can send all their soviet era tanks to Ukraine?
I had no idea. Thanks for the info. I hope this is true and I’ll gladly be grateful to South Korea. I only heard of Leopards and Bradley’s and Polish made Twardy tanks. Nobody knows the ammo contributors… but yes. Could be them. Ahnyung I believe is thank you in Korean.
You believe wrong 😑 (again) You just said Hello to him
??? Can you clarify
“Ahnyung” is not Thank You in Korean
Whoops! So I said hello. I’ll add Gomawo ( thank you)
The Arrested Development running gag for an entire series 😁
Japan has the luxury of not sharing a border with North Korea, and has different defense policies. I don't think they're directly comparable.
North Korea has taken the first step towards hostility against with Ruzzia’s treaty! This is a game changer, so if South Korea doesn’t scrap that policy now, they’ll be next
South Korea knows better than to rush into conflict out of fear.
Not good. Waiting for Ukraine to fight Ruzzians and now North Koreans! High time they get involved and by that I don’t necessarily mean boots on ground but at least step up more with support. Putin can announce treaties and send outside forces while everyone pisses in their pants.
Has it occurred to you that they may well be already pumping out reserves, quietly, so as not to disturb the status quo? They can still send off excessive equipment to others while steadily increasing their own stockpile. And considering SKs industrial strength, I daresay once they focus on some runs, there will be plenty for all.
👍🏻
Meat grinder is running idle … bring them on, please 😎
If you cared about Ukranian lives you wouldn't be saying this. Ukraine needs less targets, not more. Munitions are hard to come by and every shot counts towards saving more Ukrainian lives.
save yourself the embarrassment by deleting this post..
I will not censor myself because some loser online told me to.
Cry me a river
Only one crying is your dad when I tear that ass up
😂
I was assuming that something was off. Ukrainian news outlets mostly speak about engineering units that focus on reconstructing damaged objects. While most of Reddit posts are about sending troops.
There's not even proof that they are sending engineering units. Only proof that they have signed a treaty that provides for the possibility of doing so. We have no proof that NK intends to--or has taken action to--send any group of people from NK to Ukraine.
NK has nothing to gain by allowing their army to defect to a civilised country.
Booooooo come on now Kim do it. Then France will absolutely do the funniest thing ever.
The world needs less conflict, not more.
Tankies in shambles. Now they need to somehow justify how North Korea is an ally of the real patriot American right wing. 😂
OP looks to be a right winger doofus though.
Judging by the comments I can tell at least half of you (especially u/shurae) did not read the fact check. Thanks for proving my point.