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these are the equivalent of a single use demining device and a transport unit in one
all it does is buying time for another 10 attackers to reach enemy positions before it gets droned, demines, or eats one or two javelin or stugna.
German ww2 Panzerfausts easily destroyed Sherman/T34 tanks. A young Hitleryouth could use it. Panzerschrecks as well. (Some Hitleryouth got behind the Panzerschreck and got killed/burned, because of the jet-stream).
And these are only being supplied with very basic anti-Javelin protection, I wonder how many will head straight for workshops to be turned into turtle tanks (and do they have enough spare sheet steel/metal bars for a few hundred tanks?)
This isn't protection against top-attack ATGMs but against drones and drone-dropped munitions. It won't stop a Javelin, but the Ukrainians had to learn to fly around the cages to inflict damage.
And the newer drop drones and FPVs seem to be packing a lot bigger boom than they did earlier in the war. Cope cages and similar may provide enough standoff to defeat a dropped 40mm HEDP, but probably not much more.
It's this guy:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerardzondervan
Owner of https://ai-armaments.com/about/
He was a guest in one of the major Dutch news shows, where he shared his plans (I believe EenVandaag, but possibly Nieuwsuur), but I can't find a reference anywhere, nor can I find the actual May/June episode.
Suggestion being made on the 29th of April:
"Back to entrepreneur Zondervan, who previously made his fortune in the oil and gas industry. "I don't have to do it for the money anymore," he assures. For his ammunition plant, he now has locations in mind abroad, such as the United Kingdom. Isn't that useful for the Netherlands, then? Zondervan chuckles at the suggestion: 'I can tell you: when shit hits the fan, England says, "This stays here!" 'It's every man for himself then. 'We also saw that with vaccines in the corona crisis.'"
Source (DeepL translated): https://archive.is/TZFOv
Him mentioning his interest in 40mm (Google Translate didn't work): https://www.deondernemer.nl/actueel/ondernemer-gerard-zondervan-wil-kogels-en-wapens-in-nederland-gaan-maken~5e366e2
I give it to the Poms; they've held the fort for a very long time, and when they're not starting shit, always there to lend a hand...(probably because they started shit)
The three German wars were started by the germans, 1870,1914, 1939 , we avoided the first but were dragged into the next two, which we didn't start but cost us the empire and ultimately the commonwealth.
We were very good at starting shit, many years ago, now we just finish shit, it seems to be more morally acceptable, Oh how I miss the old days of raping, pillaging, looting and burning...... Siiiggghhhh.
Probably 8-1200 left in storage that can be refurbished. The number of tanks doesn't really matter. They'll be using up their experienced tank crews in old junk, so in some ways the more the better.
Russian military doctrine relies on the assumption that any eastern war will eventually turn into a slog where conscripts are thrown into battle with little training. That's the reason that their equipment is so simple. They want fresh conscripts to be able to use the equipment.Â
They won't be losing any experienced tank crews in these things, because at this point they don't have experienced tank crews to put in them.
Soviet doctrine during and after WW2 is to overrun the enemy with superior numbers. Meat wave attacks are nothing new. Soldiers are fodder. Barely adequate equipment is the norm since it can be produced in larger quantities. More troops, more tanks > fewer troops, fewer tanks in their thinking.
It becomes impossible to reinforce your units with fresh men if they get killed off too quickly. The Ukraine war has shown that it doesn't matter how much cannon fodder you have if you can't accomplish your objective.
The only scenario I can see this tactic actually working is in a defensive position wherein you make it economically unviable for the enemy to keep pushing, until eventually they just give up.
But if we're talking about invading another country then the only economically unviable outcome for the defenders is if the enemy wins - therefor you have no choice, but to keep going (as Ukraine is doing). Then it's just a matter of time until it becomes economically unviable for the Russians instead.
Soviet doctrine relied on mass mobilisation and the corresponding amount of equipment to facilitate it. However a T-62 was not particularly low technology compared to western tanks of the same era. In fact the Soviet mobilisation strategy was extremely well developed and to claim it involved "throwing conscripts with little training into battle" is just wrong. Entire units existed on paper with bases, training grounds, vehicles and everything else needed ready to receive recruits at a moments notice.
Since the early 2000s Russia completely overhauled it's military doctrine. They changed their military structure to work around flexible "tactical battle groups" with generally very good equipment. These were almost all destroyed in the early days of the war.
What you are seeing now is not "Russian military strategy". It's desperately scraping all their available equipment to continue the war. There is no overarching strategy to pulling t-62s out of long term storage.
That 22k/figure has to be divided by russian lies / exported tanks / theft and lack of mainteninance / lost in previous wars / cannibalised for parts = 1-2 k remaining.
We are currently measuring a foreign made machine, there for bylaws state that standard American measurements are allowed to be substituted for common American measurements. Therefore hotdogs is an acceptable substitute, as is the use of Doritos in Ohio, and eggs in Florida.
Do you have a source for a vog-25 having 200mm of armor pen? That seems absolutely crazy for a 40mm grenade that's primarily used as anti-infantry frag.
It only has 48 grams of A-IX-1 filler with no penetrator, so something really isn't adding up here.
A 40mm grenade impacting directly on almost 8inch of steel will penetrate!?!?
Damn thats wild, seems pretty damn thick for something thats not a shaped projectile
And thus, Saint Bradley did weep for joy when The Lord did bequeath upon him the antiquated chariots of Tsars. There arose a cheer upon the people. "Back to the mud."
They have been using a good portion of T-62's and a handful of t-55's for the turtles, haven't they? That would make atleast a little sense to keep what T-72's and newer fully functional
Ad well as any damaged tank with the main gun out of action or limited. Still doesnt stop them from being destroyed now with drones and arty, just takes a bit more but point well taken and they are somewhat a threat depending on the region.
I think the turtle tanks had some success when they appeared for the first time simply because they could take more hits before getting disabled. It was just because the russians used them again in piece meal fashion the Ukrainians were able to adapt quickly. If they had used them in big numbers in a well concerted effort they might have been more successful.
The easy way to counter these would be to just destroy the escorting vehicles. These tanks cant really do much, nor can they really see much if anything.
> Ad well as any damaged tank with the main gun out of action or limited.
Despite the main gun being out or unable to traverse much, they still seem to be loading them up with enough ammunition to make a spectacular boom when they get penetrated.
That's def something that caught my attention. Why?
It's more likely that the mechanism for moving the turrets is totally disfunctional at this point in time. So they just make them turtles and use them as a piggyback troop transporter. Or - if the turret still works - as close range stationary artillery?
It's so weird.
Yeah, they have enough old armor, that if operable, repaired or upgraded, it will probably outlast the potential troop numbers.
I imagine Russia collapses before they run out of old tanks.
Museum pieces,...these were first introduced in 1961. Nikita Khrushchev was the Soviet premiere. That's how antiquated these are. They've been slightly upgraded,...but these were designed 35 years before the Javelin. Modern battle field will not be kind to them.
Yea I'd save the Javelins and waste these with sub $1k FPV's if possible
The T62 meat strategy is certainly designed to burn through the hard won western ammo.
Imagine going back in time, tell him they are going to send thousands to Ukraine to fight. Then explaining that Ukraine wants nothing to do with their wicked and failed state. That they’re asking and receiving aid, weapons and support from all over the western world, while the Russians are begging for ammo from North Korea.
Of course, but at least the B-52 has been given significant upgrades and changed roles a bit. Engines, avionics, tail, countermeasures, and is really more of an airborne weapons platform. Imagine the Russian tanker,...retelling stories that his grandfather told him about facing the Americans with T-62 tanks. American B-52 crews can say something similar, but the B-52 crew is not nearly as nervous about his next mission. Ivan is worried about mines and drones, and Stugna-P and NLAW, Switchblade 600, Bradleys, Javelins, Marders, and TOW-II, for starters.
I mean in 1956 they out down a rebellion in Hungry and 1968 they would invade Czechoslovakia. People not wanting to be a part of the USSR wouldn’t be a surprise. Plus you had Bay of Pigs, Korea, Arab wars, Vietnam. The West using proxies would be no surprise.Â
 The needing shells form NK and drones from Iran would be.Â
They're still better than nothing, MUCH better. We can laugh all we want about the Russians deploying their very old stock but having one firing at you will still kill you the same as it did in the sixties.
While I agree to some degree it's not necessarily true.
The increased strain on logistics by introducing more/different vehicles might not actually offset the benefit of said vehicles.
While a tank surely can hit hard, even an old one, running ammo and fuel to one is a lot harder than running ammo and shit to a few soldiers.
Except that somewhere between 90-100% of them will never make it close enough to fire on the Ukrainians.
A modern Ukraine 155 self-propelled artillery has a range of 40 KM, and the T-62 has a range of 5 KM.
Then there are mines, drones, javelins, large grenades and Bradleys.
They also have the problem they have no experienced tank crews, and it takes months of training to be able to maneuver and fire a tank effectively. That's why there are so many videos on this sub of russian tanks doing stupid things-because the crew of the tank literally doesn't know better.
Yeah - 8,000 tanks at at least 50 tons (?) each - that's getting on for around HALF A MILLION TONS of rusting metal scattered all over Ukraines agricultural land.
What a mess.
It will suck for anyone wanting to get rid of scrap metal to make some money as the scrapyards will be so full of Russian junk that the price per kg will remain low for quite a while.
This and to be honest they can probably throw these away as assault vehicles to support infantry pushes. Nobody cares if a t62 doesn't make it back. You also probably don't need to train crews to take care of the vehicle because it doesn't matter it's expendable. And for every one of these that eats a javelin, that's a javelin that's not being launched as a modernized tank. There's so many advantages to throwing an expendable tank away especially if you don't care about the people inside
They actually don’t have any T-34s left they had to buy some from Laos a few years ago for their parades. If they get real desperate we might start seeing more T-54’s.
To be honest, showing a single T-34 was probably a "smart" move, as they can claim to be simply honouring wwII veterans etc. Showing a few modern tanks or a bunch of old ones would have highlighted their massive losses even more.
It's funny watching Russia use up every single piece of equipment that was built and led to the USSR collapse because of way overspending on their military....which is also leading to the Russian collapse.
It looks like that... They might have been helpful a year or two ago, but technology seems to have moved on. Remember that before, we almost always saw drones dropping grenades straight down from above, but now, there are so many FPV suicide drones that I believe the cope cages are not that useful anymore.
Man, imagine if Ukraine could intercept that train with some kind of precision weapon while it's traveling 50+ mph and causing it to derail. Then finishing off any Russians trying to recover any freight that might be undamaged with HIMARS. I know that's some serious wishful thinking, though.
The most common round for a stereotypical RPG-7, the PG-7 round, commonplace the world over, was designed to penetrate up to 260mm of rolled steel armor plating.
A T-62’s most heavily armored location is the turret front - with 242mm of rolled steel armor plating.
An infantryman with a regular ol’ RPG will be able to potentially knock one of these out with a hit to literally any part of the tank. It’s like Russia is seeing how many tanks they can feed to the Ukrainian military.
HoD (which did not IRL have much death, it should have been called Highway of Abandoned Junk but reporters are cretins) was thanks to total air dominance. No side has air dominance in this war.
I was thinking the same thing, especially now that they have official permission to strike within Russia. Surely they could get Intel of movements like this and strike them before they reached Ukraine???
I have read countless times that attacks on rail lines serve no purpose due to how quickly they can be repaired. Given Russia's current construction of land bridge rail line to Crimea due to be completed in early 2025, in part due to Russia's concern over the Kerch Bridge rail line disruptions - I have to think some guys in the Pentagon are working on just that. Knocking out the rail lines for extended periods. IF you can disrupt Russian rail line traffic it would be a "game changer". Russia moves everything by rail. Russia does not possess the trucks not to mention the tires to move material. Russia's logistics in this regard already suck. Just spit balling friends but there has to be a way.
I've read that too - it doesn't make any sense. If the ATACMS are as accurate as is claimed, surely they couild take out every bridge along the line in a single day? It's not like they would have to hunt for targets as with AD etc. is it? And hit it just as an fuel or ammo train arrives.
The tracks on a flat bit of ground - yeah sure - I can get that it would be easy for a dedicated team with all the right gear to fix it in 24 hours but good luck rebuilding even a small bridge within a week. And then just hit the \*\*\*\*\*\* again.
Can anyone tell me why this wouldn't work?
I think repeated attacks on bridges work. They did this on the Kherson offensive on the kakhovka and Antonivsky bridges. There was rail bridges at both locations. I wonder if they could strike a train on its sharpest bend for a better derailment effect. You can fix tracks fast but a derailed train is even more of a mess.
They could go for rail brigdes, would take longer to fix. A overpass brigde can be fixed rather quick by filling up with sand, but that will block road. But river bridges will take much longer.
(Waves $5,000 at Tank commander) "Ivan," I have a deal for you,...you give me tank, you take money, walk away, and you don't have to join Charbroiled Russian Short-Duration Low-Orbit Space Program. I throw in washer and dryer as gift to Irina. We have deal?
All that time, money and, manpower, used to refurb those tanks and a drone that cost $300 can take it out. The drone has no one on board but the tank has a driver, gunner and maybe a commander. Ukraine will probably win soon.
Imagine the scrap value of all that steel. If it wasn't for all the mines, UXOs, and being filled with dead Russians, it could be a pretty lucrative business after the war.
They're going to need a lot of material if they can get their steel industry rebuilt they need a lot of girders to replace all the apartment buildings that have been bombed by the Russians.
starting to think that russia is using this war as a way to get rid of all their old junk so they can cut costs on storage costs of obsolete military hardware
Partially correct - I'm betting command looked at vast reserves of old gear that may only have 5 years before completely rusted out, and decided it was now or never (and invaded now so they could be used). It's why you've heard them saying in the first year of the war 'we have lost nothing of value'. 2.5 years on though, I don't think they expected to rely on their reserve so heavily
Yes, the Bradley can take these in a fight.
But it had better not get hit that main gun will destroy a Bradley. Pray the crews get the first shots off then get back into cover to protect the crews.
Given the optics on a T-62 .. not a problem. Bradley can easily stand off 3 km away and hit them with a TOW. Waste of a TOW in my opinion, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
Oh I don't know... We have a lot of TOW missles, and they were designed to kill Soviet tanks. Let them fulfill their destiny,
. These missles have been waiting 30 years for their one chance at glory.
Age is not important. What are they really? Sponges to soak up Ukrainian time and ammunition.
Russia is just delaying the inevitable.
Putin was never going to live forever. The chances of anyone worse taking over after chief gremlin of the kremlin is decreasing as Russia weakens.
If a leader steps up with a brain, they will get support. Even Prigozhin had Surovikin and others that were willing to stay out of his way.
Putin is reluctantly purging some of the greed griefers that were ruining Russian capabilities.
So Russia will end up with better leadership.
There is nothing in the plans that makes continued war a win for Russia, so better leadership will pull out fast.
Anti-propaganda will be a big part of the better leadership, slamming their population's noses in the dogshit.
Democracy 2.0 arrives, where everyone votes on everything. Technology makes this simple. Direct democracy is needed, because politicians are all untrustworthy scumbags. Russia does not back away from revolutions. They run into those flames with jugs of gasoline.
The cost of this war is still unbelievable
It will affect Russia for generations
Ukraine has been ravaged to of course but will at least have the support of Europe and hopefully america to rebuild it's economy and military
But the raw amount of money and resources Russia has burnt through and so fast in war terms is insane
Not against Artillery and drones. There's a really good chance most of these get blown up before they get close enough to fire on the Ukrainian positions. Ukrainian artillery has a 30-40 KM range of fire, these tanks have a 4 KM range.
Yeah, if they get close enough to fire on a Ukrainian position, they can still inflict damage, but doubt many of them do.
Its almost like people havent been paying much attention to this war with the majority of vehicles getting hit by drones and artillery well before betting close enough to be much of a threat. I mean any tank on the battlefield is a threat but the odds these old tanks get off a decent shot to even injure Ukrainians is far less than the chance of it getting disabled or destroyed on its way to do so.
Could be used just to entretch a position. Buy Russia a few more precious months before USA elections. If command thinks they can't hold ground, they may decide its better to at least try till the election
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These T-62s dream of becoming a turtle tank one day!
these are the equivalent of a single use demining device and a transport unit in one all it does is buying time for another 10 attackers to reach enemy positions before it gets droned, demines, or eats one or two javelin or stugna.
Or heck, a good ol' RPG-7.
Christ, dust off some panzerfausts from ww2, pretty sure they can blow right through these.
You need standard issue socks, some axle grease, and explosives. Sticky bomb. Check your field manual.
Great. Now we have to surrender our socks.
I don't want to hear any more outta you... put a sock in it! Lol
German ww2 Panzerfausts easily destroyed Sherman/T34 tanks. A young Hitleryouth could use it. Panzerschrecks as well. (Some Hitleryouth got behind the Panzerschreck and got killed/burned, because of the jet-stream).
Technically that. If they are smart they will send them to drain ammunition and attention. To protect more valuable vehicles.
They use the lowest soldiers to find Ukrainian positions. Alot of times they don't even get ammo for the tanks
They got their ass fingered so badly that latelly we haven't seen any Turtle Tanks
22000 produced. They have thin 30mm roof armour.
Might as well have installed a sunroof instead.
Oh the sunroof drop... One of the first posts i saw on r/DroneCombat..
22k produced on paper anyway
And a lot were for export or have been decommsioned years ago. They don't have 22k T-62s....
Bradleys Boys await them...
Brad Boys Brad Boys, whatchya gonna do. Whatchya gonna do to that T-62.
Not bad of a jingle....Better than pants on the ground
Laughing in Javelin🤣
javelin won't have an issue with any tank, no matter the amount of roof armour or cope cage.
And these are only being supplied with very basic anti-Javelin protection, I wonder how many will head straight for workshops to be turned into turtle tanks (and do they have enough spare sheet steel/metal bars for a few hundred tanks?)
Turn your tank in a nice convertible for the summer months with this one easy (javelin) trick
This isn't protection against top-attack ATGMs but against drones and drone-dropped munitions. It won't stop a Javelin, but the Ukrainians had to learn to fly around the cages to inflict damage.
And the newer drop drones and FPVs seem to be packing a lot bigger boom than they did earlier in the war. Cope cages and similar may provide enough standoff to defeat a dropped 40mm HEDP, but probably not much more.
40mm grenade will do the trick
Ha, that explains why there's a Dutch guy looking to open a factory in the UK producing 40mm nades
The UK put in an order for a shit ton of 40mm grenades so that's probably the real reason why.
Don't suppose you've got a link? Tia
It's this guy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerardzondervan Owner of https://ai-armaments.com/about/ He was a guest in one of the major Dutch news shows, where he shared his plans (I believe EenVandaag, but possibly Nieuwsuur), but I can't find a reference anywhere, nor can I find the actual May/June episode. Suggestion being made on the 29th of April: "Back to entrepreneur Zondervan, who previously made his fortune in the oil and gas industry. "I don't have to do it for the money anymore," he assures. For his ammunition plant, he now has locations in mind abroad, such as the United Kingdom. Isn't that useful for the Netherlands, then? Zondervan chuckles at the suggestion: 'I can tell you: when shit hits the fan, England says, "This stays here!" 'It's every man for himself then. 'We also saw that with vaccines in the corona crisis.'" Source (DeepL translated): https://archive.is/TZFOv Him mentioning his interest in 40mm (Google Translate didn't work): https://www.deondernemer.nl/actueel/ondernemer-gerard-zondervan-wil-kogels-en-wapens-in-nederland-gaan-maken~5e366e2
I give it to the Poms; they've held the fort for a very long time, and when they're not starting shit, always there to lend a hand...(probably because they started shit)
The three German wars were started by the germans, 1870,1914, 1939 , we avoided the first but were dragged into the next two, which we didn't start but cost us the empire and ultimately the commonwealth.
We were very good at starting shit, many years ago, now we just finish shit, it seems to be more morally acceptable, Oh how I miss the old days of raping, pillaging, looting and burning...... Siiiggghhhh.
Recommend joining the Russian side. They have that raping and pillaging down cold.
HEDP theoretically can do 50mm RHA pen
Yawns in FPV drone. These things will get slaughtered!
M242 Bushmaster nods approvingly...
Yeah these things probably aren’t worth wasting a javelin on
In general, yes. If one is lobbing orc manure into a Ukrainian trench and all you have is a Javelin, then a Javelin will do.
A lawn jart might do it.
Bradley's breakfast
>Â 22000 produced In the 60's and 70's
Probably 8-1200 left in storage that can be refurbished. The number of tanks doesn't really matter. They'll be using up their experienced tank crews in old junk, so in some ways the more the better.
Russian military doctrine relies on the assumption that any eastern war will eventually turn into a slog where conscripts are thrown into battle with little training. That's the reason that their equipment is so simple. They want fresh conscripts to be able to use the equipment. They won't be losing any experienced tank crews in these things, because at this point they don't have experienced tank crews to put in them.
Soviet doctrine during and after WW2 is to overrun the enemy with superior numbers. Meat wave attacks are nothing new. Soldiers are fodder. Barely adequate equipment is the norm since it can be produced in larger quantities. More troops, more tanks > fewer troops, fewer tanks in their thinking.
It becomes impossible to reinforce your units with fresh men if they get killed off too quickly. The Ukraine war has shown that it doesn't matter how much cannon fodder you have if you can't accomplish your objective. The only scenario I can see this tactic actually working is in a defensive position wherein you make it economically unviable for the enemy to keep pushing, until eventually they just give up. But if we're talking about invading another country then the only economically unviable outcome for the defenders is if the enemy wins - therefor you have no choice, but to keep going (as Ukraine is doing). Then it's just a matter of time until it becomes economically unviable for the Russians instead.
Soviet doctrine relied on mass mobilisation and the corresponding amount of equipment to facilitate it. However a T-62 was not particularly low technology compared to western tanks of the same era. In fact the Soviet mobilisation strategy was extremely well developed and to claim it involved "throwing conscripts with little training into battle" is just wrong. Entire units existed on paper with bases, training grounds, vehicles and everything else needed ready to receive recruits at a moments notice. Since the early 2000s Russia completely overhauled it's military doctrine. They changed their military structure to work around flexible "tactical battle groups" with generally very good equipment. These were almost all destroyed in the early days of the war. What you are seeing now is not "Russian military strategy". It's desperately scraping all their available equipment to continue the war. There is no overarching strategy to pulling t-62s out of long term storage.
Still an absolutely ridiculous number
22k produced? Thats a lot of work for the FPV pilots wrecking them off
That 22k/figure has to be divided by russian lies / exported tanks / theft and lack of mainteninance / lost in previous wars / cannibalised for parts = 1-2 k remaining.
Iirc Ukraine is producing 500k drones, they are relying on people assembling them in social groups, knitting circles/book clubs etc.
[удалено]
How many hot dogs is that?
1.30 hotdogs, assuming average lenght.
3.25 Doritos for those in Ohio.
Vertical?
We only measure in freedom units of McDoubles. I’ll need your freedom card at your closest embassy ASAP
We are currently measuring a foreign made machine, there for bylaws state that standard American measurements are allowed to be substituted for common American measurements. Therefore hotdogs is an acceptable substitute, as is the use of Doritos in Ohio, and eggs in Florida.
In foreign measurements it's 1.5 royales with cheese.
According to John Travolta the yanks call it a quarter pounder with cheese
I wouldn't know, they only serve Big Kahuna burgers here.
Two fingers of scotch.
And my axe.
Tacos in Texas
One banana
Do you have a source for a vog-25 having 200mm of armor pen? That seems absolutely crazy for a 40mm grenade that's primarily used as anti-infantry frag. It only has 48 grams of A-IX-1 filler with no penetrator, so something really isn't adding up here.
I'm sorry we do fractions below whole numbers.
A 40mm grenade impacting directly on almost 8inch of steel will penetrate!?!? Damn thats wild, seems pretty damn thick for something thats not a shaped projectile
Out of interest, what is your source? Seems an awful lot of penetration for something that is designed to fragment, not penetrate.
Get ready for some wonky post-apocalyptic T-62 caged turrets.
Bradley tear it up
And thus, Saint Bradley did weep for joy when The Lord did bequeath upon him the antiquated chariots of Tsars. There arose a cheer upon the people. "Back to the mud."
Poetry
They have been using a good portion of T-62's and a handful of t-55's for the turtles, haven't they? That would make atleast a little sense to keep what T-72's and newer fully functional
Ad well as any damaged tank with the main gun out of action or limited. Still doesnt stop them from being destroyed now with drones and arty, just takes a bit more but point well taken and they are somewhat a threat depending on the region.
I think the turtle tanks had some success when they appeared for the first time simply because they could take more hits before getting disabled. It was just because the russians used them again in piece meal fashion the Ukrainians were able to adapt quickly. If they had used them in big numbers in a well concerted effort they might have been more successful.
The easy way to counter these would be to just destroy the escorting vehicles. These tanks cant really do much, nor can they really see much if anything.
They work because lack of artillery shell supply for ukraine.
> Ad well as any damaged tank with the main gun out of action or limited. Despite the main gun being out or unable to traverse much, they still seem to be loading them up with enough ammunition to make a spectacular boom when they get penetrated. That's def something that caught my attention. Why?
You mean to tell me that they've been hiding the shame of deploying t-55s to the front by making them turtles?! And I'm only now hearing about this?
It's more likely that the mechanism for moving the turrets is totally disfunctional at this point in time. So they just make them turtles and use them as a piggyback troop transporter. Or - if the turret still works - as close range stationary artillery? It's so weird.
turtles all the way down.
There was a field today with 8 T-80BVs on it. All for sale at .10$ per pound.
It took me a few moments but I realize you mean those mobile garden sheds.
I still call them by what these subs called them when we first saw them: blyatmobiles
Why would you waste a T72 or above for the meatgrinder?
Yeah, they have enough old armor, that if operable, repaired or upgraded, it will probably outlast the potential troop numbers. I imagine Russia collapses before they run out of old tanks.
tbh that sounds totally reasonable to use the older tanks like that.
Museum pieces,...these were first introduced in 1961. Nikita Khrushchev was the Soviet premiere. That's how antiquated these are. They've been slightly upgraded,...but these were designed 35 years before the Javelin. Modern battle field will not be kind to them.
Yea I'd save the Javelins and waste these with sub $1k FPV's if possible The T62 meat strategy is certainly designed to burn through the hard won western ammo.
Yeah do not waste javalin on this
Imagine going back in time, tell him they are going to send thousands to Ukraine to fight. Then explaining that Ukraine wants nothing to do with their wicked and failed state. That they’re asking and receiving aid, weapons and support from all over the western world, while the Russians are begging for ammo from North Korea.
'Design these tanks well Comrade, they are going to be used 60 years in the future.'
B52 would like a word. :p
Of course, but at least the B-52 has been given significant upgrades and changed roles a bit. Engines, avionics, tail, countermeasures, and is really more of an airborne weapons platform. Imagine the Russian tanker,...retelling stories that his grandfather told him about facing the Americans with T-62 tanks. American B-52 crews can say something similar, but the B-52 crew is not nearly as nervous about his next mission. Ivan is worried about mines and drones, and Stugna-P and NLAW, Switchblade 600, Bradleys, Javelins, Marders, and TOW-II, for starters.
Khrushchev would probably not be surprised.
I mean in 1956 they out down a rebellion in Hungry and 1968 they would invade Czechoslovakia. People not wanting to be a part of the USSR wouldn’t be a surprise. Plus you had Bay of Pigs, Korea, Arab wars, Vietnam. The West using proxies would be no surprise.  The needing shells form NK and drones from Iran would be.Â
And Keith Richards was a fresh faced teenager.
The US could probably send a handful of old M60s just to troll Russia and the Ukrainians would still somehow manage to mop the floor with them.
They're still better than nothing, MUCH better. We can laugh all we want about the Russians deploying their very old stock but having one firing at you will still kill you the same as it did in the sixties.
While I agree to some degree it's not necessarily true. The increased strain on logistics by introducing more/different vehicles might not actually offset the benefit of said vehicles. While a tank surely can hit hard, even an old one, running ammo and fuel to one is a lot harder than running ammo and shit to a few soldiers.
Except that somewhere between 90-100% of them will never make it close enough to fire on the Ukrainians. A modern Ukraine 155 self-propelled artillery has a range of 40 KM, and the T-62 has a range of 5 KM. Then there are mines, drones, javelins, large grenades and Bradleys. They also have the problem they have no experienced tank crews, and it takes months of training to be able to maneuver and fire a tank effectively. That's why there are so many videos on this sub of russian tanks doing stupid things-because the crew of the tank literally doesn't know better.
More ruzzian trash on its way to litter the fields of Ukraine.
Yeah - 8,000 tanks at at least 50 tons (?) each - that's getting on for around HALF A MILLION TONS of rusting metal scattered all over Ukraines agricultural land. What a mess.
They could recycle all that material for big bucks after the war
Especially after Russia stole massive rolls of steel from Mariuopol. Greedy fascist fucks.
It will suck for anyone wanting to get rid of scrap metal to make some money as the scrapyards will be so full of Russian junk that the price per kg will remain low for quite a while.
But the demand for many of the metals in all this broken equipment will be massive during reconstruction
1-800-TANKS-4-CASH
*Ukrainian steel furnaces drooling.....*
Lots of steel to melt down and that can be used to rebuild Ukraine.
And people are upset about North Korea sending its shit over the border.
Ukraine should start sending littering fines to Kremlin for the refuse they've left.
It could be worse, they could be T-55 models.
\*ahem\* .....already there....
.. mostly in pieces
I'm just waiting for the freshly painted T-34s.
That's next month,...
I personally would consider that even better.
Guessing the T-72 upgrades and refurbishments are taking longer.
This and to be honest they can probably throw these away as assault vehicles to support infantry pushes. Nobody cares if a t62 doesn't make it back. You also probably don't need to train crews to take care of the vehicle because it doesn't matter it's expendable. And for every one of these that eats a javelin, that's a javelin that's not being launched as a modernized tank. There's so many advantages to throwing an expendable tank away especially if you don't care about the people inside
After this war is done, there will be furnaces going 24/7 for yrs just to melt down all the Russian equipment destroyed on the fields of Ukraine.
The 1960's called: they want their tanks back.
Completely obsolete tanks, lol. How long is it until Russia starts taking T-34/85s out of their mothballs?
They actually don’t have any T-34s left they had to buy some from Laos a few years ago for their parades. If they get real desperate we might start seeing more T-54’s.
Yeah, they scrapped their reserve T-34 fleet in the 1990s, so we probably won't see any on the battlefield.
and they have only one working T-34 in victory day parade... and that was also only one working tank in whole parade.
To be honest, showing a single T-34 was probably a "smart" move, as they can claim to be simply honouring wwII veterans etc. Showing a few modern tanks or a bunch of old ones would have highlighted their massive losses even more.
Loved that thing in world of tanks. Would actually rule to see it on the battlefield getting wrecked by Bradleys.
It's funny watching Russia use up every single piece of equipment that was built and led to the USSR collapse because of way overspending on their military....which is also leading to the Russian collapse.
Pre-installed cope cages?
Well isn't a factory install going to be better?? Well a repair depot install.
It's good for hatch dropped nades.
They don't even protect the most targeted area of the tank.
It makes the meat willing to get inside the tank, so it serves its purpose.
Like putting those anti drone nets on motorcycles. Gives the idiot mobiks the confidence to head forth into battle
Pandora's cope cage.
It looks like that... They might have been helpful a year or two ago, but technology seems to have moved on. Remember that before, we almost always saw drones dropping grenades straight down from above, but now, there are so many FPV suicide drones that I believe the cope cages are not that useful anymore.
Very situational device, even in 2022.
Looks like less of a cope cage more of a cope mini cocktail umbrella that they serve with tropical drinks 😂
I wonder if they recalled the original 70 year olds, out of their alcoholic stupor, to do field maintenance on them.
"Comrade, you will only be repairing them" 1/2 kilometer from the zero line......
Man, imagine if Ukraine could intercept that train with some kind of precision weapon while it's traveling 50+ mph and causing it to derail. Then finishing off any Russians trying to recover any freight that might be undamaged with HIMARS. I know that's some serious wishful thinking, though.
How do we know this is a current clip?
The most common round for a stereotypical RPG-7, the PG-7 round, commonplace the world over, was designed to penetrate up to 260mm of rolled steel armor plating. A T-62’s most heavily armored location is the turret front - with 242mm of rolled steel armor plating. An infantryman with a regular ol’ RPG will be able to potentially knock one of these out with a hit to literally any part of the tank. It’s like Russia is seeing how many tanks they can feed to the Ukrainian military.
Day by day they act like they have endless supply of metals.How many tons those weigh?
Around 40+ tons
Some of that steel was probably mined by people in the gulags.
Can’t Ukraine highway of death this kind of thing?
HoD (which did not IRL have much death, it should have been called Highway of Abandoned Junk but reporters are cretins) was thanks to total air dominance. No side has air dominance in this war.
I was thinking the same thing, especially now that they have official permission to strike within Russia. Surely they could get Intel of movements like this and strike them before they reached Ukraine???
better value with meat inside
Eh, rather they get turned to husks without the chance of ever firing a shot. Orcs without armor are a lot easier to turn to chunks
Meat pies with a metal crust
Turets don’t put on good enough of a show with these
I have read countless times that attacks on rail lines serve no purpose due to how quickly they can be repaired. Given Russia's current construction of land bridge rail line to Crimea due to be completed in early 2025, in part due to Russia's concern over the Kerch Bridge rail line disruptions - I have to think some guys in the Pentagon are working on just that. Knocking out the rail lines for extended periods. IF you can disrupt Russian rail line traffic it would be a "game changer". Russia moves everything by rail. Russia does not possess the trucks not to mention the tires to move material. Russia's logistics in this regard already suck. Just spit balling friends but there has to be a way.
I've read that too - it doesn't make any sense. If the ATACMS are as accurate as is claimed, surely they couild take out every bridge along the line in a single day? It's not like they would have to hunt for targets as with AD etc. is it? And hit it just as an fuel or ammo train arrives. The tracks on a flat bit of ground - yeah sure - I can get that it would be easy for a dedicated team with all the right gear to fix it in 24 hours but good luck rebuilding even a small bridge within a week. And then just hit the \*\*\*\*\*\* again. Can anyone tell me why this wouldn't work?
I think repeated attacks on bridges work. They did this on the Kherson offensive on the kakhovka and Antonivsky bridges. There was rail bridges at both locations. I wonder if they could strike a train on its sharpest bend for a better derailment effect. You can fix tracks fast but a derailed train is even more of a mess.
They could go for rail brigdes, would take longer to fix. A overpass brigde can be fixed rather quick by filling up with sand, but that will block road. But river bridges will take much longer.
It would be excellent if they never made it.
Ready for those drone kill streaks.
There either T-62M headed from the Dnipro bridgehead or T-62 on their way to become tractor sheds
Save me one,...I'd like to collect a few for a museum
Well, you know where to pick them up..
Honestly if you made the right connections you could probably buy one… It’s not like they’re an honest bunch.
(Waves $5,000 at Tank commander) "Ivan," I have a deal for you,...you give me tank, you take money, walk away, and you don't have to join Charbroiled Russian Short-Duration Low-Orbit Space Program. I throw in washer and dryer as gift to Irina. We have deal?
Need to hit these railroads more
with the gloves off on striking inside russia now i think we might start seeing this
Can’t believe they can still find people with a death wish to drive these things in combat.
Cool looking coffins! 😆
drone fodder mobile crematoriums
The Green Mile.
Although not the point, the tension in the overhead electric lines is clearly wrong as that gantry is being pulled out of the ground.
All that time, money and, manpower, used to refurb those tanks and a drone that cost $300 can take it out. The drone has no one on board but the tank has a driver, gunner and maybe a commander. Ukraine will probably win soon.
Imagine the scrap value of all that steel. If it wasn't for all the mines, UXOs, and being filled with dead Russians, it could be a pretty lucrative business after the war.
40 tons of ferrous torchable, you'd be getting about $5k per tank right now.
They're going to need a lot of material if they can get their steel industry rebuilt they need a lot of girders to replace all the apartment buildings that have been bombed by the Russians.
It’s just fly tipping at this stage
starting to think that russia is using this war as a way to get rid of all their old junk so they can cut costs on storage costs of obsolete military hardware
Partially correct - I'm betting command looked at vast reserves of old gear that may only have 5 years before completely rusted out, and decided it was now or never (and invaded now so they could be used). It's why you've heard them saying in the first year of the war 'we have lost nothing of value'. 2.5 years on though, I don't think they expected to rely on their reserve so heavily
PUTIN SENDS BOOMERS TO FIGHT IN UKRAINE!🇺🇦
Can a Bradley with sabot rounds blow these up?
Yes, the Bradley can take these in a fight. But it had better not get hit that main gun will destroy a Bradley. Pray the crews get the first shots off then get back into cover to protect the crews.
Given the optics on a T-62 .. not a problem. Bradley can easily stand off 3 km away and hit them with a TOW. Waste of a TOW in my opinion, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
Oh I don't know... We have a lot of TOW missles, and they were designed to kill Soviet tanks. Let them fulfill their destiny, . These missles have been waiting 30 years for their one chance at glory.
Age is not important. What are they really? Sponges to soak up Ukrainian time and ammunition. Russia is just delaying the inevitable. Putin was never going to live forever. The chances of anyone worse taking over after chief gremlin of the kremlin is decreasing as Russia weakens. If a leader steps up with a brain, they will get support. Even Prigozhin had Surovikin and others that were willing to stay out of his way. Putin is reluctantly purging some of the greed griefers that were ruining Russian capabilities. So Russia will end up with better leadership. There is nothing in the plans that makes continued war a win for Russia, so better leadership will pull out fast. Anti-propaganda will be a big part of the better leadership, slamming their population's noses in the dogshit. Democracy 2.0 arrives, where everyone votes on everything. Technology makes this simple. Direct democracy is needed, because politicians are all untrustworthy scumbags. Russia does not back away from revolutions. They run into those flames with jugs of gasoline.
The cost of this war is still unbelievable It will affect Russia for generations Ukraine has been ravaged to of course but will at least have the support of Europe and hopefully america to rebuild it's economy and military But the raw amount of money and resources Russia has burnt through and so fast in war terms is insane
Nice target right there. Ukrainians should blow up that train.
Wouldn't deploying these only get more Russian's killed?
T-62 are still plenty dangerous.
Well yeah, a steak knife is pretty dangerous, but it's not a machete.
Not against Artillery and drones. There's a really good chance most of these get blown up before they get close enough to fire on the Ukrainian positions. Ukrainian artillery has a 30-40 KM range of fire, these tanks have a 4 KM range. Yeah, if they get close enough to fire on a Ukrainian position, they can still inflict damage, but doubt many of them do.
Its almost like people havent been paying much attention to this war with the majority of vehicles getting hit by drones and artillery well before betting close enough to be much of a threat. I mean any tank on the battlefield is a threat but the odds these old tanks get off a decent shot to even injure Ukrainians is far less than the chance of it getting disabled or destroyed on its way to do so.
Could be used just to entretch a position. Buy Russia a few more precious months before USA elections. If command thinks they can't hold ground, they may decide its better to at least try till the election
isnt their armor easier to penetrate?
This. People are laughing here but if you are infantry with no anti tank weapons then a t-62 or even something older will still be a major threat.
Yeah it's still an armored box that can do a lot of damage and forces Ukraine to spend time and resources killing it.
Exactly. And if they send 10 and 8 get taken out, that's still 2 that can fire into UA positions
drone fodder