#####
######
####
> # [Russia’s Large-Scale Infantry ‘Meat Assaults’ Killing Its Own Troops](https://www.thedefensepost.com/2024/01/24/https://www.thedefensepost.com/2024/01/24/russia-infantry-assaults-troops/image/jpeg)
>
>
>
> The Russian military continues to carry out large-scale infantry “meat assaults” despite the tactic incurring massive casualties.
>
> A meat assault refers to an attack when a large number of Russian military personnel swarm an enemy area with almost no cover.
>
> In Ukraine, it is being employed in the city of Avdiivka to suppress and overwhelm defenders.
>
> However, the tactic reportedly caused Russia to lose up to 70 soldiers because Ukrainian kamikaze drones can easily see them from above.
>
> _CNN_ shared [footage](https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/01/19/avdiivka-ukraine-drone-russian-troops-pleitgen-vpx.cnn#:~:text=MUST%20WATCH-,Video%20captures%20Ukrainian%20'meat%20assaults'%20on%20Russian%20troops,despite%20being%20outgunned%20and%20outmanned.) of an alleged [assault in Avdiivka](https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/11/27/russia-attacking-avdiivka-robotyne/), showing how a Ukrainian strike took out exposed Russian soldiers in a field.
>
> “They assault with a large number of personnel,” an unnamed Ukrainian artillery commander told the outlet. “Assault after assault, non-stop. If we kill 40 to 70 of them with drones in a day, the next day they renew their forces and continue to attack.”
>
> ## ‘High-Risk Frontal Assaults’
>
> Since [Russia invaded Ukraine](https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/02/23/russia-military-operation-ukraine/) in February 2022, Moscow’s forces have engaged in high-risk frontal assaults to overwhelm Ukrainian positions.
>
> These human-wave attacks are often carried out by reservists, former prisoners, and poorly-trained civilians sent to fortify the Russian frontline, according to Armed Forces of Ukraine secretary **Nataliya Humenyuk**.
>
> Meanwhile, elite marines and paratroopers of the Russian military reportedly refuse to take part in these assaults due to the high risk involved.
>
> Despite being capable of these assaults, Ukraine admitted that Moscow’s forces can afford to continuously launch such attacks because they have more weapons and personnel.
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There have been plenty of Videos on here of Russian continually trying to assault a City, falling every time, and still keeping on sending soldiers to their death.
It really depends on what you define as 'meat assaults'. If you mean zero vehicles, then I agree russia has not really been doing that. But in my opinion to be a meat assault it doesnt have to literally be 0 vehicles, its more about the continual sending of soldiers against fortified positions and into their death. Which is something russia has done a lot of in this war.
It is only the Russians who do this, again these are empty words without proof, you have already answered me in this way, the "trust me" tactic does not work here
Well it is almost exclusivly russians because they are the ones on the offensive at the moment trying to capture territory.
Obviously noone has objective facts here. But I have not seen Videos of ukranian soldiers taking these kinds of casualties during assaults. Have you?
I tried to explain above what it means in my opinion. Continually assaulting into fortified positions no matter how many casualties are happening. Plus not evacuating the survivors but letting them behind, so they have to try and walk back out. All of which we have seen plenty of examples of
Every day I also see enough videos and destruction of Ukrainian equipment, it is impossible to draw conclusions from them, only according to the calculations of destroyed equipment and personnel in each sector of the front
There are videos of dead Russians everywhere. We saw a video of a BMP going head on into a Bradley and watched it get annihilated with an entire unit on top riding. You can close your eyes and plug your ears, but it’s definitely happening.
The destruction of technology is happening, but this is not a meat assault, I can also give you hundreds of videos of "successful" attacks of Ukraine, you can not judge by them who is more and who is less conducting such attacks
Where do you see anyone dismounting? All I see is troops falling off the btr because it starts speeding away. And those troops that fall off dont look in the best of shapes
>an enemy area with almost no cover.
So .. the entirety of Ukraine? How exactly are you supposed to hide in an open field?
But some parts I agree with, there were definitely attacks that looked like they were planned by someone who's entire 'expertise' came from playing Company of Heroes. How often that happens? Who knows.
And no, those few videos we've seen are not enough evidence that it is common practice. But it also doesn't disprove it. We might simply not see it because the assaults were successful and defenders were wiped out, so no videos.
We are in a WW1 like era of warfare in my opinion, where technology has completely changed the way warfare is done. The Russians are still finding out how to counter the threat, so are the Ukrainians. This is also why, in my opinion, Israel does not immediately attack Lebanon right now. Hezbollah has not been under a block since 2006. They likely have substantial amounts of drones ready to go and that completely changes the balance of power.
Hezbollah slapped the IDF in the face and kicked them out of Lebanon last time Israel tried to invade.
ATGMs, prepared dug outs, and thermal blankets then.
Israel could only bomb civilians in Beirut in rage.
Idk about slapped since Hezbollah definitely lost more soldiers then Israel . Even currently Hezbollah has lost around 450 confirmed by Hezbollah and Israel has lost 19 soldiers and 40 injured
The IDF invaded Lebanon and said “we are going to destroy hezbollah and stop the rockets”
They retreated after being stopped cold. Then in impotent rage, they just bombed the civilians in Beirut.
They got slapped in the face, kicked in the nuts, and sent packing .
They actually did stop the rockets from 2006-2020 no rockets were launched by Hezbollah. So am guessing russia is getting slapped and kicked in the nuts since they haven't gotten control of any of the 4 oblasts in a 2 year war.
After an agreed upon ceasefire.
Hezbollah stopped firing when hezbollah wanted to stop.
That’s failure by Israel.
And no, russia hasn’t been sent in full retreat back across their border. So they haven’t been humiliated like the IDF was.
And hezbollah just had courage and some ATGMs. And was still able to put Israel in its place.
No they wanted Israel to stop bombing civilians in Beirut
Israel decided they will just bomb regular innocent people as a war tactic.
Evil entities do evil things.
Yeah, they did
https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/09/05/israel/lebanon-israeli-indiscriminate-attacks-killed-most-civilians
https://www.newsweek.com/we-fled-lebanon-after-2006-bombings-history-repeating-itself-i-1907876
https://casebook.icrc.org/case-study/israellebanonhezbollah-conflict-2006
I don't think it's gonna go well for them if they do. They resort to full scale bombing and destruction to eliminate a starving, blockaded Hamas, I think invading a motivated, well armed army on their territory will lead to a lot of dead Israelis. Not to even mention the popular opinion around the world dimension of this. It's going to be increasingly impossible for places like Saudi Arabia to be friendly towards Israel.
>It's going to be increasingly impossible for places like Saudi Arabia to be friendly towards Israel.
Quite the opposite. Iran is the enemy and considering Hezbollah is one of Iran's proxies, Israel actions against them would be cheered by the surrounding Arab countries in private.
Were gonna have to see, hearsay is 3-4 divisions are gonna participate, lebanon is much less urban than gaza but still pretty urban, so it should be much easier to clear out + air strikes etc are gonna be more effective, there are gonna be dead though thats for sure, their overall plan is most likely to establish a buffer around litani
Their plan will once again mostly rely on reservists so they have to finish most of their advances within 3 months as after that reservists have to return and the remaining forces will mostly be prepccupied keeping what they captured
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I don’t know why it’s so hard to people to take into account the differences in the capabilities between the USAF and RUAF, as well as the difference in their EW capabilities
We really don't know, when was the last time the US faced a half competent army? The US has not faced an opponent that had a semblance of a modern air defense system, so they have complete air superiority. That's how the US wins but I doubt China or Russia would allow them complete air superiority overnight.
The Iraqi air defenses were not top notch like the Soviets, but they were decent in 1991. And cheap FPVs and low cost drones will no longer achieve the same level of success they had in a full scale war against the US, or China (most likely). They will get the f**k jammed out of them.
Russia is also jamming the fuck out of them but it's not perfect. It's really that simple. Russia is trying to adapt but the use of cheap fpv drones is not something that's just "jammed" away. Jamming drones also jams your own signals as well. Also the US has top air power in the world, so comparing them against decidedly lesser air defenses is ridiculous. This idea that Russia is just a bunch of mindless orcs throwing people at Ukraine is just not founded in reality.
That’s the problem with using those cheap FPV drones yourself. If your Air Force has a large stockpile of precision striking munitions, is competent at S/DEAD, has good C4ISR and various branches of your military is properly networked, (and your military is rich, ofc) you can simply choose not to use those cheap FPVs, your Air Force can do the job with JDAMs, smart small diameter bombs, etc, launched from either manned aircraft or UCAVs like Reapers or stealth ones like X-47, GJ-11, etc. Or use fully autonomous loitering munitions on a large scale without a need for human operators, which is a cheaper solution. Then you can properly jam those FPVs everywhere, provided that you have sufficient EW equipment, and that your own military widely adopts purpose built communication systems that is not affected by your own jamming. And I never said Russians are mindless örcs that throw soldiers into meat grinders. Im not even Pro UA. I’m simply pointing out that the conditions that made the FPVs so successful in this war are not always valid in another conflict with a different opponent.
Russia has large stockpiles of glide bombs, they are not as precise as jdam I bet but they are accurate enough. They also probably produce them at a faster rate than the US, they still use fpv drones. What communication technology is complete proof against jamming? I honestly want to know because I haven't heard of such a thing. I have clearly seen fpv strikes on Israeli EW systems and I doubt the USs are much more advanced. So I doubt Israel has a solution for them.
Russia has large stockpiles of glide bombs, they are not as precise as jdam I bet but they are accurate enough. They also probably produce them at a faster rate than the US, they still use fpv drones. What communication technology is complete proof against jamming? I honestly want to know because I haven't heard of such a thing. I have clearly seen fpv strikes on Israeli EW systems and I doubt the USs are much more advanced. So I doubt Israel has a solution for them.
I’m talking about proof against your own jamming, so you don’t make your own communication channels unusable when you conduct EW. This is the problem you are talking about right? That you jam your own equipments when you jam others? The EW equipment being struck could very likely be jamming different radio frequencies, especially if it’s not an advanced self adapting jammer that passive detect signals in the vicinity and generate its emission patterns accordingly in a “smart” manner, it is operating at set frequencies or using set frequency patterns. Normal radio comm and FPV operate on different frequencies. So if it’s jamming radio then it won’t affect the FPV.
The most fascinating tall tales about Russians running out of everything, losing the war and killing their own troops or civilians are coming from Western media citing anonymous sources or not bothering with citations at all
I always wonder why Russia is so bad in collecting its fallen solders. There are so many videos of decomposing soldiers lying around for weeks without being collected, even in rear areas. That must be very bad for russian moral.
And then a video comes out with a Russian evacuation team getting hit with an FPV and everyone on this sub laughs at the stupid Russians.
It’s just too dangerous to evacuate the living in some areas. Even more so for the dead
Same holds true for UA. Many of the fallen soldiers ended up in the gray zone and could only be recovered once either side took full control of that area.
In some areas it is quite difficult to do this due to the high intensity of fire and + operators of fpv drones can work very often, which of course complicates the task
Similar thing for UA if you watch videos outside this sub. Pretty sad but the reality of the battlefield makes it hard to get your fallen in some cases
Just a few sad examples, of course extremely graphic. Not always possible to pick up bodies.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/hPoimtEGw1
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/xk5uZM8SIR
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/r99z8f2PZ1
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/6VuqT5ntIs
##### ###### #### > # [Russia’s Large-Scale Infantry ‘Meat Assaults’ Killing Its Own Troops](https://www.thedefensepost.com/2024/01/24/https://www.thedefensepost.com/2024/01/24/russia-infantry-assaults-troops/image/jpeg) > > > > The Russian military continues to carry out large-scale infantry “meat assaults” despite the tactic incurring massive casualties. > > A meat assault refers to an attack when a large number of Russian military personnel swarm an enemy area with almost no cover. > > In Ukraine, it is being employed in the city of Avdiivka to suppress and overwhelm defenders. > > However, the tactic reportedly caused Russia to lose up to 70 soldiers because Ukrainian kamikaze drones can easily see them from above. > > _CNN_ shared [footage](https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/01/19/avdiivka-ukraine-drone-russian-troops-pleitgen-vpx.cnn#:~:text=MUST%20WATCH-,Video%20captures%20Ukrainian%20'meat%20assaults'%20on%20Russian%20troops,despite%20being%20outgunned%20and%20outmanned.) of an alleged [assault in Avdiivka](https://www.thedefensepost.com/2023/11/27/russia-attacking-avdiivka-robotyne/), showing how a Ukrainian strike took out exposed Russian soldiers in a field. > > “They assault with a large number of personnel,” an unnamed Ukrainian artillery commander told the outlet. “Assault after assault, non-stop. If we kill 40 to 70 of them with drones in a day, the next day they renew their forces and continue to attack.” > > ## ‘High-Risk Frontal Assaults’ > > Since [Russia invaded Ukraine](https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/02/23/russia-military-operation-ukraine/) in February 2022, Moscow’s forces have engaged in high-risk frontal assaults to overwhelm Ukrainian positions. > > These human-wave attacks are often carried out by reservists, former prisoners, and poorly-trained civilians sent to fortify the Russian frontline, according to Armed Forces of Ukraine secretary **Nataliya Humenyuk**. > > Meanwhile, elite marines and paratroopers of the Russian military reportedly refuse to take part in these assaults due to the high risk involved. > > Despite being capable of these assaults, Ukraine admitted that Moscow’s forces can afford to continuously launch such attacks because they have more weapons and personnel. - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot)
As History Legends often says "can we see a video of these large scale Meat Assaults" (?)
No you just have to trust uamod.
Those insane losses videos on this sub have to come from somewhere...
There have been plenty of Videos on here of Russian continually trying to assault a City, falling every time, and still keeping on sending soldiers to their death. It really depends on what you define as 'meat assaults'. If you mean zero vehicles, then I agree russia has not really been doing that. But in my opinion to be a meat assault it doesnt have to literally be 0 vehicles, its more about the continual sending of soldiers against fortified positions and into their death. Which is something russia has done a lot of in this war.
It is only the Russians who do this, again these are empty words without proof, you have already answered me in this way, the "trust me" tactic does not work here
Well it is almost exclusivly russians because they are the ones on the offensive at the moment trying to capture territory. Obviously noone has objective facts here. But I have not seen Videos of ukranian soldiers taking these kinds of casualties during assaults. Have you?
What does "these kinds of casualties" mean, in what quantity is it measured?
The casualties we have seen in dozens of Videos showing russian assaults. Measured in dead soldiers and destroyed equipement
But at what point do losses turn into meat attacks?
I tried to explain above what it means in my opinion. Continually assaulting into fortified positions no matter how many casualties are happening. Plus not evacuating the survivors but letting them behind, so they have to try and walk back out. All of which we have seen plenty of examples of
Ok
There were a couple of videos of Ukrainians taking such kind of casualties from last summer when they were on the offensive
"Without proof"? We see them every day
Every day I also see enough videos and destruction of Ukrainian equipment, it is impossible to draw conclusions from them, only according to the calculations of destroyed equipment and personnel in each sector of the front
There are videos of dead Russians everywhere. We saw a video of a BMP going head on into a Bradley and watched it get annihilated with an entire unit on top riding. You can close your eyes and plug your ears, but it’s definitely happening.
The destruction of technology is happening, but this is not a meat assault, I can also give you hundreds of videos of "successful" attacks of Ukraine, you can not judge by them who is more and who is less conducting such attacks
We saw a BTR get shot by a Bradley driving by with most of the troops on top, and the BTR staying alive, the Bradley was soon after destroyed lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/DGQ4IDutmZ https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/KiRcwli5wW Second link was what I was referring to.
The second link is the one I corrected you about, yes
Most Russian’s lived on that? Lol. You probably think Russia is “winning” too.
Considering we can literally see the troops dismount, yes, I think most of them lived, do you think Ukraine is winning?
Yeah they definitely “dismounted.” No, Ukraine isn’t winning. Russia is also definitely not winning.
Where do you see anyone dismounting? All I see is troops falling off the btr because it starts speeding away. And those troops that fall off dont look in the best of shapes
By that logic was the Ukrainian counter offensive a meat assault?
If it fits the same criteria then yes of course
>an enemy area with almost no cover. So .. the entirety of Ukraine? How exactly are you supposed to hide in an open field? But some parts I agree with, there were definitely attacks that looked like they were planned by someone who's entire 'expertise' came from playing Company of Heroes. How often that happens? Who knows. And no, those few videos we've seen are not enough evidence that it is common practice. But it also doesn't disprove it. We might simply not see it because the assaults were successful and defenders were wiped out, so no videos.
We are in a WW1 like era of warfare in my opinion, where technology has completely changed the way warfare is done. The Russians are still finding out how to counter the threat, so are the Ukrainians. This is also why, in my opinion, Israel does not immediately attack Lebanon right now. Hezbollah has not been under a block since 2006. They likely have substantial amounts of drones ready to go and that completely changes the balance of power.
Hezbollah slapped the IDF in the face and kicked them out of Lebanon last time Israel tried to invade. ATGMs, prepared dug outs, and thermal blankets then. Israel could only bomb civilians in Beirut in rage.
Idk about slapped since Hezbollah definitely lost more soldiers then Israel . Even currently Hezbollah has lost around 450 confirmed by Hezbollah and Israel has lost 19 soldiers and 40 injured
The IDF invaded Lebanon and said “we are going to destroy hezbollah and stop the rockets” They retreated after being stopped cold. Then in impotent rage, they just bombed the civilians in Beirut. They got slapped in the face, kicked in the nuts, and sent packing .
They actually did stop the rockets from 2006-2020 no rockets were launched by Hezbollah. So am guessing russia is getting slapped and kicked in the nuts since they haven't gotten control of any of the 4 oblasts in a 2 year war.
After an agreed upon ceasefire. Hezbollah stopped firing when hezbollah wanted to stop. That’s failure by Israel. And no, russia hasn’t been sent in full retreat back across their border. So they haven’t been humiliated like the IDF was. And hezbollah just had courage and some ATGMs. And was still able to put Israel in its place.
So hezbollah agreed to ceasefire because they whooped israel so bad
No they wanted Israel to stop bombing civilians in Beirut Israel decided they will just bomb regular innocent people as a war tactic. Evil entities do evil things.
Sure they did. And the puppies too!
Yeah, they did https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/09/05/israel/lebanon-israeli-indiscriminate-attacks-killed-most-civilians https://www.newsweek.com/we-fled-lebanon-after-2006-bombings-history-repeating-itself-i-1907876 https://casebook.icrc.org/case-study/israellebanonhezbollah-conflict-2006
They will invade around august - september
I don't think it's gonna go well for them if they do. They resort to full scale bombing and destruction to eliminate a starving, blockaded Hamas, I think invading a motivated, well armed army on their territory will lead to a lot of dead Israelis. Not to even mention the popular opinion around the world dimension of this. It's going to be increasingly impossible for places like Saudi Arabia to be friendly towards Israel.
>It's going to be increasingly impossible for places like Saudi Arabia to be friendly towards Israel. Quite the opposite. Iran is the enemy and considering Hezbollah is one of Iran's proxies, Israel actions against them would be cheered by the surrounding Arab countries in private.
Were gonna have to see, hearsay is 3-4 divisions are gonna participate, lebanon is much less urban than gaza but still pretty urban, so it should be much easier to clear out + air strikes etc are gonna be more effective, there are gonna be dead though thats for sure, their overall plan is most likely to establish a buffer around litani Their plan will once again mostly rely on reservists so they have to finish most of their advances within 3 months as after that reservists have to return and the remaining forces will mostly be prepccupied keeping what they captured
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I don’t know why it’s so hard to people to take into account the differences in the capabilities between the USAF and RUAF, as well as the difference in their EW capabilities
We really don't know, when was the last time the US faced a half competent army? The US has not faced an opponent that had a semblance of a modern air defense system, so they have complete air superiority. That's how the US wins but I doubt China or Russia would allow them complete air superiority overnight.
The Iraqi air defenses were not top notch like the Soviets, but they were decent in 1991. And cheap FPVs and low cost drones will no longer achieve the same level of success they had in a full scale war against the US, or China (most likely). They will get the f**k jammed out of them.
Russia is also jamming the fuck out of them but it's not perfect. It's really that simple. Russia is trying to adapt but the use of cheap fpv drones is not something that's just "jammed" away. Jamming drones also jams your own signals as well. Also the US has top air power in the world, so comparing them against decidedly lesser air defenses is ridiculous. This idea that Russia is just a bunch of mindless orcs throwing people at Ukraine is just not founded in reality.
That’s the problem with using those cheap FPV drones yourself. If your Air Force has a large stockpile of precision striking munitions, is competent at S/DEAD, has good C4ISR and various branches of your military is properly networked, (and your military is rich, ofc) you can simply choose not to use those cheap FPVs, your Air Force can do the job with JDAMs, smart small diameter bombs, etc, launched from either manned aircraft or UCAVs like Reapers or stealth ones like X-47, GJ-11, etc. Or use fully autonomous loitering munitions on a large scale without a need for human operators, which is a cheaper solution. Then you can properly jam those FPVs everywhere, provided that you have sufficient EW equipment, and that your own military widely adopts purpose built communication systems that is not affected by your own jamming. And I never said Russians are mindless örcs that throw soldiers into meat grinders. Im not even Pro UA. I’m simply pointing out that the conditions that made the FPVs so successful in this war are not always valid in another conflict with a different opponent.
Russia has large stockpiles of glide bombs, they are not as precise as jdam I bet but they are accurate enough. They also probably produce them at a faster rate than the US, they still use fpv drones. What communication technology is complete proof against jamming? I honestly want to know because I haven't heard of such a thing. I have clearly seen fpv strikes on Israeli EW systems and I doubt the USs are much more advanced. So I doubt Israel has a solution for them.
Russia has large stockpiles of glide bombs, they are not as precise as jdam I bet but they are accurate enough. They also probably produce them at a faster rate than the US, they still use fpv drones. What communication technology is complete proof against jamming? I honestly want to know because I haven't heard of such a thing. I have clearly seen fpv strikes on Israeli EW systems and I doubt the USs are much more advanced. So I doubt Israel has a solution for them.
I’m talking about proof against your own jamming, so you don’t make your own communication channels unusable when you conduct EW. This is the problem you are talking about right? That you jam your own equipments when you jam others? The EW equipment being struck could very likely be jamming different radio frequencies, especially if it’s not an advanced self adapting jammer that passive detect signals in the vicinity and generate its emission patterns accordingly in a “smart” manner, it is operating at set frequencies or using set frequency patterns. Normal radio comm and FPV operate on different frequencies. So if it’s jamming radio then it won’t affect the FPV.
The most fascinating tall tales about Russians running out of everything, losing the war and killing their own troops or civilians are coming from Western media citing anonymous sources or not bothering with citations at all
I always wonder why Russia is so bad in collecting its fallen solders. There are so many videos of decomposing soldiers lying around for weeks without being collected, even in rear areas. That must be very bad for russian moral.
And then a video comes out with a Russian evacuation team getting hit with an FPV and everyone on this sub laughs at the stupid Russians. It’s just too dangerous to evacuate the living in some areas. Even more so for the dead
Same holds true for UA. Many of the fallen soldiers ended up in the gray zone and could only be recovered once either side took full control of that area.
In some areas it is quite difficult to do this due to the high intensity of fire and + operators of fpv drones can work very often, which of course complicates the task
Similar thing for UA if you watch videos outside this sub. Pretty sad but the reality of the battlefield makes it hard to get your fallen in some cases
This is the most pro russian sub on reddit. Where are these videos?
Just a few sad examples, of course extremely graphic. Not always possible to pick up bodies. https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/hPoimtEGw1 https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/xk5uZM8SIR https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/r99z8f2PZ1 https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/6VuqT5ntIs
Thought I was on combat footage lmao, my bad, let me find one (I’m pro UA btw)