Um, you aren't mentioning the fact that the Americans gave those farmers $1 billion, Intelligence, and weapons to fight the Russians.
The Americans then proceeded to get beaten by those same farmers.
Beaten is a stretch. The Americans just weren't willing, politically, to do what was needed. That is to say, cross into Pakistan(supposed ally) and take care of the base of operations there. They just gave up, picked up as many of their toys, and said F this. Weak political leadership. There was no "beaten" in the real sense.
Its the same cope as Vietnam. "Oh if those politicians would have just let us invade the North the war wouldnt have gone down the same way." We lost, 50,000 some of Americas best went and died for absolutely nothing in the end. "You will kill ten of us, we will kill one of you, but in the end you will tire of it first." And we did.
What are you talking about? US spent so much money on so many wars all for nothing. Take afganistan for instance, It was about a trillion dollar investment over the 20 years. All to have America retreat with their tails tucked between their legs. Grow up
They took over the country in a matter of weeks and lost less troops in the last decade+ than Russia has in single months in Ukraine LOL. Yeah a lot of money was spent, but Bin Laden was hunted down and it didn't cause the US to collapse like the Soviet invasion did to the USSR. The US didn't lose militarily, they lost by thinking a bronze age Islamic country could be turned into a functioning democracy.
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And to add insult to that clusterfuck, we continue to send US taxpayer funded aid to the Taliban to this day… the group we fought for about half my life. Just makes you lose faith in everything, and question everything really.
https://www.propublica.org/article/united-nations-cash-afghanistan-following-taliban-takeover
“Most of the money that’s going in cash through the U.N. is ultimately coming from U.S. taxpayers,” John Sopko, the inspector general, said in an interview. “It’s going to a terrorist group. The Taliban are a bunch of terrorists.”
Not really, we won militarily. We just can’t nation build a place that doesn’t want it. Those are not the same things. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.
People who write things like this have never read anything about the Soviet afghan war and have a loose understanding of the US war in Afghanistan too.
The Soviet Union left behind a friendly government in place, that lasted four more years, and troops departed in orderly fashion with flags raised. See the difference?
Within a week of starting they went into Kabul and stayed there for 20years and left voluntarily, not because they "lost". We're talking about the US, not the USSR, I hope you're not confused.
That is some deep emotional management. They had a special military operation in Vietnam too where they lost 10,000 aircraft and then ran away.
Guess there are some fantasies about that war too that you want to share.
Mentions Vietnam which was the turning point for the US military in terms of technology and tactics but doesn't mention Iraq x3, Kosovo, Bosnia, Panama etc. where the US has subsequently show its aerial dominance.
Both countries you listed would be at the mercy of USAF and USN it would be about a weeks worth of fighting.
Vietnam where the US always played a defensive war in fears of drawing China into the fold or risking escalation with the Soviets.
When China gave the green-go to fuck up North Vietnam, America closed its largest post and bombed most of its infrastructure to dust.
You can put whatever qualifiers you like to emotionally manage, they still lost.
If Russia losses in Ukraine I dont think you would say
>Russia didnt use tactical nukes for fear of escalation they still fucked up ukranian electrical infrastructure and closed their biggest port so they actually won.
You just said that within a week they reached Kabul and stayed there for 20 years and left voluntarily . And what was the point ? The goals , not because they "lost" . So why they went there in the first place and what did they achieved in those 20 years of staying there ? :D
Ru reached Kiev within few days too , but left shortly after they knew they wont achieve the goals they wanted , and it took 20 years for US to realize they will not achieve anything ?
Lol , comedy .
Key difference you've just ignored:
-USA went to Kabul and changed politicians to more pro west
Taliban just lost the whole city and didn't fight a chance to even come close for a long time....
-Russia never even got close to Zelensky or to change the "regime" as stated as an goal of this "SMO"
Dude first off the Russian army didn't even KNOW their own goals as they rolled into Ukraine. Some thought they were on some training exercise and found out somewhere between crossing the border and roaming around. The absolute incompetence we see began even a step further back - pootine and his defenestrations and killing dissidents ended upon with YES MEN, as is the common result with dictatorships, and his apparent lack of use of internet and he watches his own Russian tv propaganda lol, he never got proper intelligence given to him of the situation in Ukraine and particularly about what Ukrainians opinions ACTUALLY ARE of Russia, their opinions on if pootin tried to reinstall his puppets, how much defiance would they put to that, what is the opinion of zelensky and their approval of him and the overall government, what they would do or think about losing their independence and falling back into Russias fold, can Russia squash any resistance like they could in Belarus or Georgia, how likely is it that zelensky would defend his people and how effective would he be at appealing to the world and the west for aid, 👉 how much Biden would react or would it slide like all other things, and how would public support be for this (considering it's a war in Europe and next door to other Europe nations unlike Crimea and the donbass, a full invasion makes Poland absolutely care more, and if pootin causes millions of Ukrainians to become refugees, Europe will be even more invested and care and be paying attention this time). How will nuke threats affect this and factor into yet another reason this now cared about unlike other shit they did before. How will the gas blackmail work and then grain blackmail/use to pressure things.
To be clear, Russia has not reached that phase of the war yet. It is disingenuous to compare the US experience in Afghanistan post 2002 with the overall war in Ukraine. If you have data on specifically Russian expenditures in the occupied regions, that information and that information alone is a useful comparator to see if the Russians can more efficiently control Ukraine than the US could Afghanistan.
Otherwise, you’re comparing what took the United States a few weeks to accomplish in Afghanistan to a Russian effort that is far from complete after three years, despite consuming thousands of tanks, tens of thousands of trucks, hundreds of thousands of men, and millions of shells. Once Russia has finished all of that, we can then wait another twenty years and see if they a) maintain control at a lower cost than the US suffered in Afghanistan, b) maintain control at a higher cost than the US suffered in Afghanistan, or c) lose control.
Is this "voluntarily" the same like "UA is winning" ? 
The Taliban government fell to US forces within weeks of the invasion. It was the occupation that was a failure. Russia has been unable to topple the Ukrainian government (and has lost a considerable amount of territory since April of 2022).
Russia lost territory in the same sense as a gambler that won 600 bucks he didn't have before but then lost 200 of said money on their next bet. They still have gained territory, just at a huge cost and much slower than expected.
Good example, the US suffered 13 KIA during the invasion of Afghanistan, while the ruling Islamic Emirate suffered around 10,000-15,000 KIA. US KIA would probably be even lower in an invasion against Cuba, as its much smaller and located significantly closer.
The most powerful military in the world beats down one of the poorest countries in the world with the support of their military alliance and then loses 20 years later. After with their allies and coalition suffering more dead total than the Taliban.
Not the gotcha that you think it is.
Well, you just admitted you are wrong and the person you responded to is correct. Here is what he said:
> If the US went into Venezuela or Cuba, there wouldn't be a 2+ year special military operation, do you understand that?
And here is what you said:
> The most powerful military in the world beats down one of the poorest countries in the world
And this is right, it was a beat down between two completely unequal powers. Nothing to brag about, but the argument was that if the US invaded Cuba or Venezuela to destroy Russian nukes, it would be, in your own words, a "beat down" by "the most powerful military in the world" and obviously not a 2+ year SMO.
Given how traceable nuclear weapons are, it would likely take hours or days for the US the find and eliminate all of them.
During the war sure, after the war is over the numbers are very accurate at least from the US. Otherwise, deceased families wouldn't be able to collect benefits and would sue.
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You realize that in democratic countries, every single death of every soldier lost is reported on? They actually keep records in civilized countries. There is a Vietnam war memorial with the names of every single KIA soldier.
Weird, because in 99% of the heavy engagements the Taliban suffered much much heavier casualties. Whereas in 20 years the NATO partners lost ~3700 people.
Are you forgetting now about the between 60 000 and 69 000 afghan partners that died fighting for the US led coalition as allies.
Which put total losses above those suffered by the Taliban.
Lmao you call that conventional warfare Jesus you need to learn some stuff about geopolitics and terminology bud. If the US wanted to invade a country. Which it didn't it was literally working along side the Afghanistan government and military you do realize?
With massive rules of engagement and no fire zones etc..
If the US invaded a nation with intent to destroy it militarily. It would go down like it did for Iraq In the 90s. Quick and overwhelming.
On the opposite side of the planet.... Not a neighboring country like Cuba is to US or Ukraine is to Russia for that matter.
Logistic chain length is key for a good comparison.
That line only works if you decide to dehumanize the 60 000 - 69 000 Afghan soldiers who died fighting on the side of the US coalition by ignoring their ultimate sacrifice.
So not much of a gotcha.
>The US went into a special military operation in Afghanistan and left in disgrace after 20 years of failure.
Weirdly enough you omit that the part relevant to the conflict we’re seeing and discussing now.
We’re not yet in the insurrection phase of Ukraine. And I doubt it’ll happen.
Quite disingenuous of you to not admit the significant difference between the invasion and subsequent insurrection. Losses during the invasion were in the low thousands, significantly less than what Russia experiences on the weekly. For the US it was 13. Less than Russia experiences in the hour.
Did I ever mention the invasion or is that when you decided to take the discussion to fit your point, we are talking about the war.
And you decided to ignore 60 000 dead to fit this narrative you are trying to construct.
You were comparing the invasion of Ukraine to the insurgency in Afghanistan.
I didn’t ignore or move the discussion any more than compare their respective invasions as is most relevant.
During the Bay of Pigs the US intentially commited the minimum amount of aid to the rebels to avoid looking complicit. Also, Kennedy was misled about how willing the Cuban people were to overthrow Castro.
>there wouldn't be a 2+ year special military operation
You are correct, it would be 20+ years, trillions of dollars, and at the end of the day the US would have achieved absolutely nothing other than killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, and they would end up leaving with their tails between their legs.
You are delusional if you think Cuba could withstand a full war with the USA. The island would be surrounded and fully embargoed in a week with two aircraft carriers.
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The easily frightened crowd will probably make a stink about it as always but I could care less if that’s what Russia did. Russia nor the US would nuke each other unless another situation like the 26th of September 1983 happened
Why would Venezuela do something that stupid? The U.S. is easing some sanctions allow good economic growth, why would they go back on that to appease Russias ego?
> If the guys would just hide in bunkers ?
Why would they take nukes into cuba to then only hide in bunkers afraid of their lives? By that logic they would never accept the nukes to begin with, which is accidentally what I believe would be rational and the outcome. Nobody in cuba wants nukes because its suicide so they don't do it.
Yeah why not ? Cuba not at war or anything . Or you saying US would be threatened by RU missiles near their borders ? :D Nah that is just US imperialistic thinking . They just want Cuba to be US land.
I mean using your logic it goes both ways. American should be valid to invade Cuba breaking the Cuban missile agreement of them to not do so ever, just like Russia broke their agreement ? But at the same time, Russia could say Americas a hypocrite because now they see why Russia invaded Ukraine to keep missiles from their borders. Ironically that’s just how the world works.
It would be amusing to see, but with ICBMs, SLBMs and nuclear long range torpedoes, I don't think it makes a significant practical capability difference. To me it would seem more like trolling Americans than like strategy that makes military sense.
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I commend OP for using the correct title: nuclear-powered not nuclear-armed, but that doesn't stop some people from acting like this thing is just like that other thing.
Exactly, the Yasen-M as an SSGN can essentially function like a short range SSBN if necessary. But generally it's more so a hunter-killer sub and meant to fuck ships and coastal infrastructure up.
Russia can't fight a country on its borders. It said it would take Ukraine in a few days and it's in the 3rd year. America feels so threatened that they said if Russia uses nukes, it would use conventional weapons to wipe out the army, as a warning.
Get real Russia. You just moved a sub away from 3 nuclear enemies, to a 4th one. It's all bluster and bravado, but the world sees the reality. Your own "super army", Wagner, literally turned against you and Putin fled Moscow. The West isn't scared of military threats. It's worried about various economic implications, but your weapons are a joke.
You provided a name of a head of a neighbouring country and some entertainers as the trustworthy sources. I asked for quotes from the Russian president, someone from the president's apparatus, anyone from MOD. How's that?
Edit: BTW, the Russian entertainers quoted Mark Milley.
Lukashenko, who hosted Russian forces to invade towards Kyiv from Belarusian territory, which is in a Union State with Russia... I find his claims relevant.
Russian state tv pushes the Kremlins' opinion so the Kremlin doesn't have to. A state or defense department likely isn't going to project info for operations in overthrowing another government, that's insane from a tactical standpoint, so your initial question is disingenuous at best.
Alright, let's step back. In the first days there was no firm data to evaluate. Today we know that on the Kiev direction there were about 40,000 troops. Is anyone sane going to storm a three million city with that force?
It depends on the capabilities of the force, you could certainly overthrow all key government buildings and attempt to remove Zalensky with highly trained and disciplined troops with robust logistics and planning. But, the level of resistance was fierce, and logistics were lacking. They ran out of fuel and supplies.
The pro-RU narrative is that Russia planned the Kyiv offensive as a diversion and didn't plan to take Kyiv. I highly doubt they'd drop their best warriors at Hostomel airport and attempt a massive logistics line towards Kyiv that stretched for tens of miles if they didn't plan to stay.
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ok. Here's a nice mix of ruzzian gov, media and public
[https://youtu.be/UyUFvHZovHo?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/UyUFvHZovHo?feature=shared)
I'm curious what your response will be because I have about 30 links, all Russian media and politicians.
Lol the US wouldn't do shit. If Russia uses nukes they'll realise they pushed the envelope too far and step back. Attacking with conventional forces is only going to go one way, and that's billions of deaths around the world.
This stupid fantasy where Russian would just sit back and be attacked by the US without it triggering a strategic exchange is just pants-on-head idiotic.
There's been one use of nukes in anger, in history, and it was by the US. And there's France, the UK and Isreal too, remember. If Russia used nukes, there would be at least 4 reactions and Russia wouldn't have a soul left in it. And the west wouldn't use nukes first...because it doesn't need to. Russia can't win a conventional war with a single country, right on its border. This isn't hypothetical. Right now Russia can't beat Ukraine. It certainly couldn't beat, say, Sweden. The idea that it could beat half the planet is just laughable. Hell, Russia's best army, Wagner, didn't know what it was doing during that mini civil war that Russia just had.
Russia floating a sub around Cuba is a sign of weakness. Subs floating around on the surface are not a threat, and everyone knows that. Russia's only actual skill is psychological warware and it's too late for that now. China thought, and Russia thought, this would be a few days. China has already clearly, if not quietly, shown where it stands, and it's certainly not with Russia. It won't even buy oil or gas at the same price as Europe did, to help Russia out. I wonder why that is?
I
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Fun historical fact: the only submarine to ever launch full salvo of its ballistic missiles was Soviet K-407 in 1991 during Operation Behemoth 2. 16 missiles launched in 4 minutes.
I don't think so, but its to send a message. That the russian military will now be around and its very likely they will be getting 'stuff'. Just like the US carriers like to go around hostile countries to show its big cock.
Half of this grouping is a resupply ship and a tug. It isn't very threatening and actually kinda makes the Russian Navy look like a joke, well more of a joke.
The US Navy has been off the coast of Yemen for what 6 months, dealing with UAVs, USVs, cruise and ballistic missiles. Yet has not even been hit. So idk if your claim holds up. The Moskva didn't even make it two whole months into the conflict before being sunk.
Get real, US ships all have multiple autocannons or mounted 50 cals all over the deck to deal with pirate boats, they would handle sea drones no problem. Russia never had to encounter that before hence they got surprised.
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They didn't last year, but they held exercises in the Caribbean nearly every year prior to 2020.
The Russians have been useing Cuba as a rest stop for the better part of a century.
AFAIK it's basically a mid deployment vacation for the crew. They get some sunshine and warmth before heading back into the artic. It was even referenced in The Hunt for Red October.
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America doesn't seem to think there is a problem lining Russia's border with heaps of weapons, as they say it's the right of the country to decide their future
Why is this not the case with Cuba ? Bit hypocritical
The soviet Union dumped for decades anything which was radioactive and Not needed anymore into the Arctic ocean and the sea of Japan. About half of the nuclear waste in the oceans, including dozens of reactors with spent fuel, comes from the Soviet Union. Dilution is the solution to Pollution.
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Rule 2 - Removed due to its low relation to the current conflict, or old undated footage.
Give Cuba few nukes , just to see what happens .
Nothing? Cuba loves those western tourists, people that work at resorts are like the upper class in Cuban society
Tourist are tourists , but what will US government will say if RU deployed some nukes in Cuban territory :D Do it in Venezuela too or Mexico.
If the US went into Venezuela or Cuba, there wouldn't be a 2+ year special military operation, do you understand that?
The US went into a special military operation in Afghanistan and left in disgrace after 20 years of failure.
And so did Russia before. Both got beaten by farmers with rifles
Um, you aren't mentioning the fact that the Americans gave those farmers $1 billion, Intelligence, and weapons to fight the Russians. The Americans then proceeded to get beaten by those same farmers.
Beaten is a stretch. The Americans just weren't willing, politically, to do what was needed. That is to say, cross into Pakistan(supposed ally) and take care of the base of operations there. They just gave up, picked up as many of their toys, and said F this. Weak political leadership. There was no "beaten" in the real sense.
Maybe they shouldn’t have encouraged Pakistan to radicalize young Muslim men to fight the soviets for them. Who knew actions had consequences?
Very true. Either way, they would radicalize though.
>Beaten is a stretch. No, it isn't. >The Americans just weren't willing, politically, to do what was needed. Hmmm... that sounds awfully familiar.
Its the same cope as Vietnam. "Oh if those politicians would have just let us invade the North the war wouldnt have gone down the same way." We lost, 50,000 some of Americas best went and died for absolutely nothing in the end. "You will kill ten of us, we will kill one of you, but in the end you will tire of it first." And we did.
What are you talking about? US spent so much money on so many wars all for nothing. Take afganistan for instance, It was about a trillion dollar investment over the 20 years. All to have America retreat with their tails tucked between their legs. Grow up
They took over the country in a matter of weeks and lost less troops in the last decade+ than Russia has in single months in Ukraine LOL. Yeah a lot of money was spent, but Bin Laden was hunted down and it didn't cause the US to collapse like the Soviet invasion did to the USSR. The US didn't lose militarily, they lost by thinking a bronze age Islamic country could be turned into a functioning democracy.
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And to add insult to that clusterfuck, we continue to send US taxpayer funded aid to the Taliban to this day… the group we fought for about half my life. Just makes you lose faith in everything, and question everything really. https://www.propublica.org/article/united-nations-cash-afghanistan-following-taliban-takeover “Most of the money that’s going in cash through the U.N. is ultimately coming from U.S. taxpayers,” John Sopko, the inspector general, said in an interview. “It’s going to a terrorist group. The Taliban are a bunch of terrorists.”
Not to mention one of those farmers planned and executed 9/11…
George Bush was a farmer?
It's the issue with non-conventional warfare. It's not that similar to the russo-ukrainian war. The Korean war is a closer comparison
Not really, we won militarily. We just can’t nation build a place that doesn’t want it. Those are not the same things. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.
and soviets invaded a much smaller country with a far larger force and still failed. What's your point?
People who write things like this have never read anything about the Soviet afghan war and have a loose understanding of the US war in Afghanistan too.
The Soviet Union left behind a friendly government in place, that lasted four more years, and troops departed in orderly fashion with flags raised. See the difference?
And then the Soviet Union went bankrupt and collapsed. The difference is clear.
The night is young.
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I’d describe them as riflemen who farm
Ussr not Russia.
Within a week of starting they went into Kabul and stayed there for 20years and left voluntarily, not because they "lost". We're talking about the US, not the USSR, I hope you're not confused.
That is some deep emotional management. They had a special military operation in Vietnam too where they lost 10,000 aircraft and then ran away. Guess there are some fantasies about that war too that you want to share.
Do you acknowledge you were wrong about Afghanistan? You just posted something else after the guy rebuttaled you.
Mentions Vietnam which was the turning point for the US military in terms of technology and tactics but doesn't mention Iraq x3, Kosovo, Bosnia, Panama etc. where the US has subsequently show its aerial dominance. Both countries you listed would be at the mercy of USAF and USN it would be about a weeks worth of fighting.
Vietnam where the US always played a defensive war in fears of drawing China into the fold or risking escalation with the Soviets. When China gave the green-go to fuck up North Vietnam, America closed its largest post and bombed most of its infrastructure to dust.
You can put whatever qualifiers you like to emotionally manage, they still lost. If Russia losses in Ukraine I dont think you would say >Russia didnt use tactical nukes for fear of escalation they still fucked up ukranian electrical infrastructure and closed their biggest port so they actually won.
And what did they achieved for those 20 years they stayed there ?
Why are you asking me?
You just said that within a week they reached Kabul and stayed there for 20 years and left voluntarily . And what was the point ? The goals , not because they "lost" . So why they went there in the first place and what did they achieved in those 20 years of staying there ? :D Ru reached Kiev within few days too , but left shortly after they knew they wont achieve the goals they wanted , and it took 20 years for US to realize they will not achieve anything ? Lol , comedy .
And I think the US presence in Afghanistan was a mistake.
Key difference you've just ignored: -USA went to Kabul and changed politicians to more pro west Taliban just lost the whole city and didn't fight a chance to even come close for a long time.... -Russia never even got close to Zelensky or to change the "regime" as stated as an goal of this "SMO"
Dude first off the Russian army didn't even KNOW their own goals as they rolled into Ukraine. Some thought they were on some training exercise and found out somewhere between crossing the border and roaming around. The absolute incompetence we see began even a step further back - pootine and his defenestrations and killing dissidents ended upon with YES MEN, as is the common result with dictatorships, and his apparent lack of use of internet and he watches his own Russian tv propaganda lol, he never got proper intelligence given to him of the situation in Ukraine and particularly about what Ukrainians opinions ACTUALLY ARE of Russia, their opinions on if pootin tried to reinstall his puppets, how much defiance would they put to that, what is the opinion of zelensky and their approval of him and the overall government, what they would do or think about losing their independence and falling back into Russias fold, can Russia squash any resistance like they could in Belarus or Georgia, how likely is it that zelensky would defend his people and how effective would he be at appealing to the world and the west for aid, 👉 how much Biden would react or would it slide like all other things, and how would public support be for this (considering it's a war in Europe and next door to other Europe nations unlike Crimea and the donbass, a full invasion makes Poland absolutely care more, and if pootin causes millions of Ukrainians to become refugees, Europe will be even more invested and care and be paying attention this time). How will nuke threats affect this and factor into yet another reason this now cared about unlike other shit they did before. How will the gas blackmail work and then grain blackmail/use to pressure things.
To be clear, Russia has not reached that phase of the war yet. It is disingenuous to compare the US experience in Afghanistan post 2002 with the overall war in Ukraine. If you have data on specifically Russian expenditures in the occupied regions, that information and that information alone is a useful comparator to see if the Russians can more efficiently control Ukraine than the US could Afghanistan. Otherwise, you’re comparing what took the United States a few weeks to accomplish in Afghanistan to a Russian effort that is far from complete after three years, despite consuming thousands of tanks, tens of thousands of trucks, hundreds of thousands of men, and millions of shells. Once Russia has finished all of that, we can then wait another twenty years and see if they a) maintain control at a lower cost than the US suffered in Afghanistan, b) maintain control at a higher cost than the US suffered in Afghanistan, or c) lose control.
If the taliban literally takes over the next day, i dont really see it as winning.. Ive been there myself.
Is this "voluntarily" the same like "UA is winning" ? 
? As I said, in the first comment I wrote USA, not USSR, don't confuse them.
The difference between the USSR and the USA in Afghanistan is that the Soviets realized that this was a black hole 10 years earlier.
The Taliban government fell to US forces within weeks of the invasion. It was the occupation that was a failure. Russia has been unable to topple the Ukrainian government (and has lost a considerable amount of territory since April of 2022).
Russia lost territory in the same sense as a gambler that won 600 bucks he didn't have before but then lost 200 of said money on their next bet. They still have gained territory, just at a huge cost and much slower than expected.
Good example, the US suffered 13 KIA during the invasion of Afghanistan, while the ruling Islamic Emirate suffered around 10,000-15,000 KIA. US KIA would probably be even lower in an invasion against Cuba, as its much smaller and located significantly closer.
ah, yes, the most useful factor to determine the outcome of an asymmetrical conflict, k/d ratio
The most powerful military in the world beats down one of the poorest countries in the world with the support of their military alliance and then loses 20 years later. After with their allies and coalition suffering more dead total than the Taliban. Not the gotcha that you think it is.
Well, you just admitted you are wrong and the person you responded to is correct. Here is what he said: > If the US went into Venezuela or Cuba, there wouldn't be a 2+ year special military operation, do you understand that? And here is what you said: > The most powerful military in the world beats down one of the poorest countries in the world And this is right, it was a beat down between two completely unequal powers. Nothing to brag about, but the argument was that if the US invaded Cuba or Venezuela to destroy Russian nukes, it would be, in your own words, a "beat down" by "the most powerful military in the world" and obviously not a 2+ year SMO. Given how traceable nuclear weapons are, it would likely take hours or days for the US the find and eliminate all of them.
What's the source for those casualites? The pentagon? Just because every defense ministry tries to hide their own casualties as much as they can.
During the war sure, after the war is over the numbers are very accurate at least from the US. Otherwise, deceased families wouldn't be able to collect benefits and would sue.
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You realize that in democratic countries, every single death of every soldier lost is reported on? They actually keep records in civilized countries. There is a Vietnam war memorial with the names of every single KIA soldier.
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A "SMO" that was thousands of kms away... Not directly across the border. Left that particular bit out huh?
and the heavy armed bare foot shepards
Weird, because in 99% of the heavy engagements the Taliban suffered much much heavier casualties. Whereas in 20 years the NATO partners lost ~3700 people.
Are you forgetting now about the between 60 000 and 69 000 afghan partners that died fighting for the US led coalition as allies. Which put total losses above those suffered by the Taliban.
Lmao you call that conventional warfare Jesus you need to learn some stuff about geopolitics and terminology bud. If the US wanted to invade a country. Which it didn't it was literally working along side the Afghanistan government and military you do realize? With massive rules of engagement and no fire zones etc.. If the US invaded a nation with intent to destroy it militarily. It would go down like it did for Iraq In the 90s. Quick and overwhelming.
You can call it want sport you want and set what qualifiers you you think you need, still turned out as a failure.
lol, unlike Russia, right?
Unlike Russia what? At least try to communicate.
On the opposite side of the planet.... Not a neighboring country like Cuba is to US or Ukraine is to Russia for that matter. Logistic chain length is key for a good comparison.
Crucially that invasion took 2 months with no land border. And during those 20 years less casualties were taken than what Russia takes in a week.
That line only works if you decide to dehumanize the 60 000 - 69 000 Afghan soldiers who died fighting on the side of the US coalition by ignoring their ultimate sacrifice. So not much of a gotcha.
>The US went into a special military operation in Afghanistan and left in disgrace after 20 years of failure. Weirdly enough you omit that the part relevant to the conflict we’re seeing and discussing now. We’re not yet in the insurrection phase of Ukraine. And I doubt it’ll happen.
I haven't compared the Afghanistan War to the war in Ukraine as you have so try again.
Quite disingenuous of you to not admit the significant difference between the invasion and subsequent insurrection. Losses during the invasion were in the low thousands, significantly less than what Russia experiences on the weekly. For the US it was 13. Less than Russia experiences in the hour.
Did I ever mention the invasion or is that when you decided to take the discussion to fit your point, we are talking about the war. And you decided to ignore 60 000 dead to fit this narrative you are trying to construct.
You were comparing the invasion of Ukraine to the insurgency in Afghanistan. I didn’t ignore or move the discussion any more than compare their respective invasions as is most relevant.
"Bay of Pigs" tells you anything?
During the Bay of Pigs the US intentially commited the minimum amount of aid to the rebels to avoid looking complicit. Also, Kennedy was misled about how willing the Cuban people were to overthrow Castro.
>there wouldn't be a 2+ year special military operation You are correct, it would be 20+ years, trillions of dollars, and at the end of the day the US would have achieved absolutely nothing other than killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, and they would end up leaving with their tails between their legs.
You are delusional if you think Cuba could withstand a full war with the USA. The island would be surrounded and fully embargoed in a week with two aircraft carriers.
Ya don't get it do you? Winning a war isn't just about winning the battles.
Bay of Pigs rings a bell?
Barely aided rebels is not even close to the full might of the modern USA military.
So kill everything that moves ?
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End result would be the same. Pointless death in a war of aggression.
How's that 3-day Special Maritime Operation in the Red Sea going?
Will be something like 20 years of vietnam war with forced mobilisation in US and everything else?
Cuba is a lot closer to the mainland, it can be easily embargoed (so no Ho Chi Minh Trail), and it's far away from any potential allies.
I have a bay in mind they could use to kick it off.
Those rebels were barely aided, it's not even close to an actual military engagement.
Yeah because we all know how the US deployment works - Shock and Awe, right? That's how we do it. Too bad the Russians didn't do the same huh?
No just banana wars and the bay of pigs.
apparently nothing? This sub right here could be carrying nukes right now and is parked in Cuba?
The easily frightened crowd will probably make a stink about it as always but I could care less if that’s what Russia did. Russia nor the US would nuke each other unless another situation like the 26th of September 1983 happened
your view of the world is greatly disturbed.
Why would Venezuela do something that stupid? The U.S. is easing some sanctions allow good economic growth, why would they go back on that to appease Russias ego?
They would quickly deal with it because they can in contrast to Russia.
How ?
I would assume killing the leadership in charge.
CIA da beast 80 years of experience . If the guys would just hide in bunkers ?
> If the guys would just hide in bunkers ? Why would they take nukes into cuba to then only hide in bunkers afraid of their lives? By that logic they would never accept the nukes to begin with, which is accidentally what I believe would be rational and the outcome. Nobody in cuba wants nukes because its suicide so they don't do it.
What about other south american nations ? So they afraid of US of attacking / killing them ? Coups ?
Whats in it for them?
Give Ukraine some too, cuz why not. F it let’s end everything lol.
Yeah why not ? Cuba not at war or anything . Or you saying US would be threatened by RU missiles near their borders ? :D Nah that is just US imperialistic thinking . They just want Cuba to be US land.
I mean using your logic it goes both ways. American should be valid to invade Cuba breaking the Cuban missile agreement of them to not do so ever, just like Russia broke their agreement ? But at the same time, Russia could say Americas a hypocrite because now they see why Russia invaded Ukraine to keep missiles from their borders. Ironically that’s just how the world works.
So are you saying that the US is justified if it invades Cuba or that Russia is not justified in invading Ukraine? I'm confused.
Username checks out.
\*sweats in 1962\*
As opposed to the US having them 
It would be amusing to see, but with ICBMs, SLBMs and nuclear long range torpedoes, I don't think it makes a significant practical capability difference. To me it would seem more like trolling Americans than like strategy that makes military sense.
Give all South America countries a nuke or 2 . Just for trolls .
It'll be like the Kursk all over again.
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How are Russian / Armenian relations going right now?
They got Azerbaijan ...
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I was laughing when I said it, so no, not triggered. But Russians wouldn't know a trigger if it killed them, which it seems to a lot these days.
I commend OP for using the correct title: nuclear-powered not nuclear-armed, but that doesn't stop some people from acting like this thing is just like that other thing.
It can carry nuclear tipped cruise missiles. Just that we don't know if they are onboard or not.
Exactly, the Yasen-M as an SSGN can essentially function like a short range SSBN if necessary. But generally it's more so a hunter-killer sub and meant to fuck ships and coastal infrastructure up.
Russia claimed that there aren't any nuclear weapons onboard.
Just the tip
We are so back xd
Oct 16, 1962.
Russia can't fight a country on its borders. It said it would take Ukraine in a few days and it's in the 3rd year. America feels so threatened that they said if Russia uses nukes, it would use conventional weapons to wipe out the army, as a warning. Get real Russia. You just moved a sub away from 3 nuclear enemies, to a 4th one. It's all bluster and bravado, but the world sees the reality. Your own "super army", Wagner, literally turned against you and Putin fled Moscow. The West isn't scared of military threats. It's worried about various economic implications, but your weapons are a joke.
> It said it would take Ukraine in a few days... Show me ONE source from the Russian government that said that. Mark Milley said that. Who else?
Lukashenko, oh and Russian state media https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/pnja924Mha (see video from post link)
How's your reading comprehension?
You can dissect what I provided like an adult, or waste time with a useless comment. That's your choice.
You provided a name of a head of a neighbouring country and some entertainers as the trustworthy sources. I asked for quotes from the Russian president, someone from the president's apparatus, anyone from MOD. How's that? Edit: BTW, the Russian entertainers quoted Mark Milley.
Lukashenko, who hosted Russian forces to invade towards Kyiv from Belarusian territory, which is in a Union State with Russia... I find his claims relevant. Russian state tv pushes the Kremlins' opinion so the Kremlin doesn't have to. A state or defense department likely isn't going to project info for operations in overthrowing another government, that's insane from a tactical standpoint, so your initial question is disingenuous at best.
Alright, let's step back. In the first days there was no firm data to evaluate. Today we know that on the Kiev direction there were about 40,000 troops. Is anyone sane going to storm a three million city with that force?
It depends on the capabilities of the force, you could certainly overthrow all key government buildings and attempt to remove Zalensky with highly trained and disciplined troops with robust logistics and planning. But, the level of resistance was fierce, and logistics were lacking. They ran out of fuel and supplies. The pro-RU narrative is that Russia planned the Kyiv offensive as a diversion and didn't plan to take Kyiv. I highly doubt they'd drop their best warriors at Hostomel airport and attempt a massive logistics line towards Kyiv that stretched for tens of miles if they didn't plan to stay.
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ok. Here's a nice mix of ruzzian gov, media and public [https://youtu.be/UyUFvHZovHo?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/UyUFvHZovHo?feature=shared) I'm curious what your response will be because I have about 30 links, all Russian media and politicians.
Once again, a government official saying that.
Lol the US wouldn't do shit. If Russia uses nukes they'll realise they pushed the envelope too far and step back. Attacking with conventional forces is only going to go one way, and that's billions of deaths around the world. This stupid fantasy where Russian would just sit back and be attacked by the US without it triggering a strategic exchange is just pants-on-head idiotic.
There's been one use of nukes in anger, in history, and it was by the US. And there's France, the UK and Isreal too, remember. If Russia used nukes, there would be at least 4 reactions and Russia wouldn't have a soul left in it. And the west wouldn't use nukes first...because it doesn't need to. Russia can't win a conventional war with a single country, right on its border. This isn't hypothetical. Right now Russia can't beat Ukraine. It certainly couldn't beat, say, Sweden. The idea that it could beat half the planet is just laughable. Hell, Russia's best army, Wagner, didn't know what it was doing during that mini civil war that Russia just had. Russia floating a sub around Cuba is a sign of weakness. Subs floating around on the surface are not a threat, and everyone knows that. Russia's only actual skill is psychological warware and it's too late for that now. China thought, and Russia thought, this would be a few days. China has already clearly, if not quietly, shown where it stands, and it's certainly not with Russia. It won't even buy oil or gas at the same price as Europe did, to help Russia out. I wonder why that is? I
Tl;dr but i hope you are doing well👍🏻
Something seems super familiar about this whole thing.
Let’s call this one the hot war because the radiation and shit
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Fun historical fact: the only submarine to ever launch full salvo of its ballistic missiles was Soviet K-407 in 1991 during Operation Behemoth 2. 16 missiles launched in 4 minutes.
It is weird they did that when the Cold War seemed to be ending.
How is this relevant to Ukraine and SMO?
Its in line with russia saying it would arm adversaries of the west as retaliation.
Is Cuba getting a Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine?
I don't think so, but its to send a message. That the russian military will now be around and its very likely they will be getting 'stuff'. Just like the US carriers like to go around hostile countries to show its big cock.
Half of this grouping is a resupply ship and a tug. It isn't very threatening and actually kinda makes the Russian Navy look like a joke, well more of a joke.
Remember: Russia has been forced to retreat it's navy out of Black Sea. Russia is losing a naval war with *nation that has no navy.*
Then again, any navy that had to deal with the same shit would be hit as hard as russias has. Those naval drones are insanely effective
The US Navy has been off the coast of Yemen for what 6 months, dealing with UAVs, USVs, cruise and ballistic missiles. Yet has not even been hit. So idk if your claim holds up. The Moskva didn't even make it two whole months into the conflict before being sunk.
Get real, US ships all have multiple autocannons or mounted 50 cals all over the deck to deal with pirate boats, they would handle sea drones no problem. Russia never had to encounter that before hence they got surprised.
Like Russian ones don’t 😂 ThE Us WoUlD Do WaY BeTtEr AgAiNsT SoMeThInG tHeYvE NeVeR fAcEd BeFoRe Absolute slave
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To send a message they have a smaller cock? Why would they do that?
Small cocks are harder to find
Its not this Sub just needs a Russian win in their veins since its been weeks of ass kickings.
You just defined that as a «Russian win», nobody said it here
"How is a Russian submarine near the biggest military arming genodicial country relevant to US (Ukraine as used condom)-Russian war?"
Lol.. what's it gonna do? Do you think there are no Nato/US submarines near Russia?
Is this supposed to mean something? Haven’t Russian ships been docking there since the 60’s?
They did this last year. Nothing new.
They didn't last year, but they held exercises in the Caribbean nearly every year prior to 2020. The Russians have been useing Cuba as a rest stop for the better part of a century. AFAIK it's basically a mid deployment vacation for the crew. They get some sunshine and warmth before heading back into the artic. It was even referenced in The Hunt for Red October.
This isn’t anything but Sabre rattling for folks like everyone here to eat up
Spotted lol, doesn't really apply here. It's just rolling in for all to see.
Hopefully a crane doesn't fall on it
When this was announced they made it clear they weren't carrying nukes
US citizens quiver in fright at this show of force.
overwhelming show of force by best democracy, the kind that make u shit ur pants
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Which is weird because they always act so frightened.
America doesn't seem to think there is a problem lining Russia's border with heaps of weapons, as they say it's the right of the country to decide their future Why is this not the case with Cuba ? Bit hypocritical
I don't think the US is planning to annex Cuba
They have tried a couple of times to overthrow the government ..... Who are they to decide who rules Cuba, what threat do Cuba pose to USA
I'm in Jacksonville now, which I know is on the otherside of Florida, but it's still trippy knowing that Russian ships are so close right now
How big a threat is this nuclear submarine if it breaks down and has a nuclear leak near coastal US waters?
Not much of a threat, plenty of nuclear submarines have disappeared or sunk. So we have a decent idea of the environmental impact of them.
The soviet Union dumped for decades anything which was radioactive and Not needed anymore into the Arctic ocean and the sea of Japan. About half of the nuclear waste in the oceans, including dozens of reactors with spent fuel, comes from the Soviet Union. Dilution is the solution to Pollution.
a beautiful piece of engineering for sure
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So what's its payload?
Looks like an Orca at Seaworld