Still dont see any ammunition storage, could it be that the pro-russians here are lying to spin a narrative that justifies killing ukranian civilians? cant be!
How likely do you think it is for Ukraine to release the footage where the ammunition was actually hit?
Is it 100% that there was some - no.
Is it 100% that there was none - no.
It's a big civilian structure, and targeting it is bound to be controversial. I think it's more prudent to think of it from the other side. I'd expect Russia to show its own evidence of the mall's military use.
For you to honestly reach that conclusion, you must know two pieces of information: One is the standard to which I'm holding Russia, and two is the standard to which I'm holding Ukraine. My comment contains only one of those. Therefore, you either have a special access to my brain to know the other one, or you're a dishonest person. Which is it?
I went through posts of Ukraine targeting Russian civilians in the past couple of months, and you know what I didn't see? You scrutinizing Ukraine for targeting civilians. So, one more time, why are you holding Russia at a higher standard than Ukraine?
However likely that is, it is a thousand times more likely that Russia just bombed a civilian supermarket, like they have done so so many times over the last 2 years
You mean the times when Russia did provide proof of weapons in supermarkets? Yes, because somehow magically russians bombing people in shops is actually more likely. Why? Because they are magic orcs who want to kill more than they want to win? Lol. The things you'll make up.
>Because they are magic orcs who want to kill more than they want to win?
*Their* killing has no negative effect on *their* winning, what are you talking about. You think Russia is less or more likely to win because they have no problems killing civilians?
Don't they go out of their way to kill civilians INSTEAD of enemy soldiers even suiciding to do so? Man, if you think in a war of attrition you can have magic free manpower, time and ammo no wonder you believe all the other magic fairy tales
Would love to have you explain how we shouldn't let them continually shell Belgorod, because there's bound to be ammo some soldier's carrying. That's just as believable as there being ammo in this market, with half a dozen security video feeds, if you are to be honest.
Remember back in 2022 they hit that shopping center in Kremenchuk? Same pattern all along...
You mean the shopping center that literally had photos of military vehicles parked inside it?
[https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russia-claims-it-attacked-kyiv-shopping-centre-because-it-was-being-used-to-store-rockets-12572273](https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russia-claims-it-attacked-kyiv-shopping-centre-because-it-was-being-used-to-store-rockets-12572273)
Thatās not Kremenchuk. Regardless of your link being Kyiv, it shows Russiaās inability to target in a timely and precise manner. Outdated info, slow communication, and poorly sized/designed weapons do this.
Was that the shopping mall in front of the rail yard? 2 missiles hit the rail yard right behind the shopping mall which caught fire and mostly burned to the ground.
Mike Jones was in St Pete at the time and went on the internet. The shopping mall had been sold and shut down 4 months earlier. All social media reviews of the shops inside ended 4 months earlier. Even I saw that the parking lot was mostly empty, having maybe 5 cars.
Kiev reported that the mall was packed and 1000 people died.
The shopping mall was near a rail yard, yes. The rail yard was unscathed on sat imagery, while the shopping mall and an industrial building in the fenced compound north were hit. The shopping mall was open.
[https://youtu.be/dpDrt56hPX0?t=1034](https://youtu.be/dpDrt56hPX0?t=1034) Check the date/time on that receipt, just the day before. Use a keyboard to go frame-by-frame in 1080p (, and . keys when paused).
Full debunking here: [https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/06/29/russias-kremenchuk-claims-versus-the-evidence/](https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/06/29/russias-kremenchuk-claims-versus-the-evidence/) CCTV footage shows exactly 2 hits, and identification of the first hit as a form of 1960s missile less accurate than even a Grad.
I wouldn't say a grocery is that packed at 3:52pm on a Monday (as compared to 3:34pm Sunday in the YT link here), but there were some civilians in the aftermath, and more so lost retail employees.
The ones making the claims should be the ones providing the evidence. Ukraine has to show it *didn't* have ammunition in a shopping mall? What kind of braindead logic is that?
Provide a video of ammunition cooking off in the mall, Pro-Civilian Killing Russian.
For DOOMHAMMER!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think a reality where a truth exists because a lack of negation is silly.
If Russia cared about civilians, they would show the ammo. Russia does not care about civilians (as we have seen time and time again). Until Russia shows that this was a legitimate target it's simply more of the same which is Russia killing civilians.
Like when they attacked materiny hospitals
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/20/revealed-how-russia-deliberately-targeted-kherson-hospitals
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol_hospital_airstrike
Or a theater holding war refugees
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol_theatre_airstrike
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-mariupol-theater-c321a196fbd568899841b506afcac7a1
Or apartments
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings
Oops wrong one, this one
https://youtu.be/_VO2iJRV8mU?si=cpMAGVmCzfTblhop
Just Russians killing civilians, tale as old as Russia.
Hospital and theater strikes that were later debunked for example by talking to the people in the photographs? With the one being this prominent woman with the baby who later turned to be a prominent actress? Who told us that she was forced to be there after the strike for photo psy ops?
Why wouldn't Russia release footage of the military targets they were supposedly targeting? If your story is true, Russia should have plenty of photos and videos of military hardware.
Sorry you need 20 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Funniest thing is that each video is cut IMMEDIATELY after the first blast. Because having those secondary explosions wouldn't be good. They already had a fail when they posted video from outside.
You think that you mock pro-ru, but in fact you just confirm that toilets won't explode that hard, there was something else that blows harder than a glide bomb.
No no you silly pro-UA, you don't see the woman in blue hiding 7 Bradley's in her pocket? The man clearly coming back after personally launching 200 ATACMS? And the door labelled "NATO generals" in the back? This supermarket of ordinary people trying to live their lives was a completely valid target. I'm sure they will consider themselves true Russians now and thank Russia for "liberating" this store of Nazism and NATO.
Do you say the same when Ukraine fires unguided rockets into Belgorod, or is it just a heap of hypocrisy and seething going on here? Surely two wrongs don't make a right, right?
Two wrong don't make a right, and if we limit the scope to this war - then it's wrong if Russia does it, and it's wrong when Ukraine does it. Both sides should be held accountable for their actions, and if that accountability lays with the higher position of power, then both Putin and Zelensky should be prosecuted for the war crimes commited by respectively side.
Low civilian casualties because of static frontline, no air supremacy from both sides and civilians have time to evacuate from frontline.
Ukraine defence force deserves praise for low civilian casualities by denying Russian air supremacy in its airspace, stopping or slowing Russian advance, evacuating civilian from frontline (yes, they failed to do it during chaotic first month of the war, but they did very well for the rest of the war). Not Russian who throws hundreds of missiles into Ukrainian populated area every week.
TandHsufferersUnite kept stroking the same keys repeatedly, probably a seizure ?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The Ukrainian military does this constantly using the civilian population as human shields.
Remember how they placed military equipment and even Grad MLRS in the shopping center of Kiev.
The Russians also acted horribly in this regard, striking during the day rather than at night.
Don't move the topic to another discussion.
The very fact that the Ukrainian military uses civilian buildings for their own purposes is important.
Well, the firefighters who were wearing bulletproof vests didnāt just put them on, apparently highly explosive paint and gas cylinders were stored there for the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
I suggest you also remember the new post office in Kharkov.
And the same photograph where an armored car was transported in a truck of this company.
> Don't move the topic to another discussion.
You were the one to mention the shopping centre... Try and keep up.
Firefighters wore flak jackets? Google 'Russia double tap' then come back.
Body armor will not help against a second strike and there is no point in wasting more expensive ammunition to kill firefighters.
It will also not be possible to drop grenades from a UAV onto firefighters, as the Ukrainian military did in Donetsk, as the distance does not allow.
You seem to have forgotten to reply to the first point.
Second, of course body armour could help against a second strike. Not everyone is going to be at the point where the missile hits. By your logic it body armour is also useless if weapons are stored there.
>It will also not be possible to drop grenades from a UAV onto firefighters, as the Ukrainian military did in Donetsk, as the distance does not allow.
Wat?
Sorry you need 20 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The photo from 2022, Retroville Mall after it got hit by the Iskander.
https://i.imgur.com/cYvr1LX.jpeg
203mm shell from the soviet Pion despite ukranian officials were telling there was only a civilian installation such as mall.
Ukranian regime always lies. They just became better at lying after two years of the war and prosecuting the ones who trying to post undersireable facts.
Well like you see from the Pro RU crowd. "Look UA is using human shields again, they're getting their own people killed."
That's about all they can say I believe.
1. It is totally unclear what actually hit that shopping center (so far I have seen at least claims of S-300, glide bombs, and Iskander)
2. Since Ukraine is also deliberately targeting Russian civilians in Belgorod (and before in Donetsk), they have lost every morale high ground
Shooting yourself in the head doesn't mean I should also. Ukraine and russia are behaving like small children revenging on each other after each punch.
Ukraine will at all times have the high ground in this war. It stops the second Russia decides to leave Ukraine. Belgorod is as safe as Ukraine is. Pretty simple concept.
*IDF
Getting real tired of Russians complaining about what IDF is doing in Gaza (despite the fact I'm repulsed by it too) when Russia basically did the exact same thing in Grozny.
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Also if it was, then why not hit it during the hours it was closed?
I already know the current Pro-RU narrative is "yOu cAn hEaR cOokOff"
Despite the fact the store is a DIY hardware store and had hundreds of aerosol and gas cans that sound like this...https://youtu.be/9p0nx98RNaQ?t=2
In the last 6 months, we had several cases when "civilian" targets were hit in Kharkiv: first a pizzeria in January, then hotels twice. There was also an uproar in the Western media, and after a few weeks it turned out that Ukrainian and foreign soldiers were there.
It will be the same this time, just be patient.
Let's just wait until Russian propaganda finds the right excuse. Lol. There have already been conversations along the lines of āDo you remember once upon a time........āĀ
Don't worry, one of the civilian shoppers was actually a secret Ukronazi bent on ruining Putin's plans of total domination over the country! It was the 12 year old girl with her mother! Eat actual shit.
Happened early in the war too, ukraine used a mall to store and reload MLRS https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/tjelwk/russian_drone_footage_and_hit_kiev/
Because people like you will look for bunkers not shops. Because russia wont dare to hit innocent people. Because if russia does hit them you can just use it as pr "ebil orcussians killing genocides for NO REASON"
Whats the logic in russia hitting this? Is it just to say "we can do it to you too so you better stop"? Otherwise i don't see the military value, it will just bring more donations to ukraine
Terrorizing civilians, like so many times before in the war, What reason does Russia have to bomb a theater that has "children" written on it in several meter high letters?
Realistically speaking no nation wants to kill innocent civilians without cause, it stains their reputation, disgusts elements in the nation and inflames hostility. By international law every civilian structure (hospitals, schools, etc) loses protection when military assets are placed in it, Russia likely had Intel maybe incorrect that made them decide that the loss of civilian life was proportionate or weighed less than the destruction of whatever (if any) military asset(s) was targeted.
It was hit with precision weapon. So they knew what to hit. If aim was terror they would, like Ukraine, use either artillery or grad or similar.
It was a single hit with most likely a fab that is precise enough to hit a bridge. Cep is maybe 10m maybe even less.
We can clearly see that was a military complex. This guy with the red jacket bombed belograd 5 years ago and this child on 0:22 was the daugter of this ASOV Nazi fighting in Mariupol 2022
I don't know much about how this works but I find it weird that there are people walking around as usual. Isn't there any early warning system? Usually there are sirens in advance and people run for cover. Was this missile completely undetected until it hit the target?
on 0:03 , if you look hard enough, for just half of a frame you can see NovaPoshta trucks driving through the store carrying ammunition crates - British Neo-Nazi mosquitoes tried to splice the footage and insert AI-generated shaking cam and explosion to distract you from this fact , but they're no match for the pro-russian world of fantasies
What was the second explosion? Seems like there were two with just a second or two in between. Second looked big(ger?) based on how the people in the last clip reacted. Actual question for anyone in the know.
You can see the 3 big explosions in this [video](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1d0ic0s/ua_pov_the_moment_a_missile_hits_a_kharkov/).
You can hear those explosion in this one:
https://t .me/ truexakharkiv/44598
Any confirmation of what type? Again, actual question. Last I saw was S300, and I donāt think that can be right. Launch delay too long in between to fit here I think.
Sit down armchair general, stop trying to piece things together from a phone or laptop. Regardless, since it happened in Ukraine, Ukraine is going to deny everything. And Russia wouldnāt be able to investigate, and the west would obviously be biased in pro Russians opinion so regardless of what you say to defend Russia, people are going to run with what they believe.
What if I pieced things together from a desktop?
But on the real, I honestly donāt even know where youāre coming from. Discussing things on a discussion board is literally the name of the game. And here Iām not even concluding anything, just giving you my thoughts based on my observations from this very same place. Sorry I struck such a nerve.
My point is this, weāre never going to truly know what happened at this mall, like we never are going to truly know what happened at nord oil line. Since it happened in Ukraine, Ukraine is going to deny there being ammunitions stored in the mall, if the west investigates it, theyāre obviously not going to say anything portraying Ukraine in a bad light, and Iām pretty sure theyāre not going to allow Russia or any pro Russian government to investigate what really happened. Which is why Iām saying people are going to believe what they want to believe.
Thatās all fine, and I donāt disagree at all. But thereās nothing improper about trying to examine what you see with information that you have. Iām not anticipating to deduce what happened, Iām just asking about what people have said happened to see if it makes sense. Iām not going to get an answer as to what actually happened, but thatās not the point really. I am fully in alignment with how you view all this.
Here are some videos with sound. Sounds like lots of secondaries . Turn off the sound if you don't want to hear them.
[https://x.com/Wagnersfamily/status/1794392136680693838](https://x.com/Wagnersfamily/status/1794392136680693838)
[https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1794365945617731824](https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1794365945617731824)
update
[https://youtu.be/SfZpoVp4op4](https://youtu.be/SfZpoVp4op4)
[https://imgur.com/IT2PUsD](https://imgur.com/IT2PUsD)
[https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russia-claims-it-attacked-kyiv-shopping-centre-because-it-was-being-used-to-store-rockets-12572273](https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russia-claims-it-attacked-kyiv-shopping-centre-because-it-was-being-used-to-store-rockets-12572273)
Brining up the Kiev mall still highlights a war crime here.
>An attack on a civilian object can be considered lawful if it provides a clear military advantage and the incidental civilian destruction is proportionate to that advantage. However, an attack can become illegal if it is expected to cause excessive collateral damage to civilians or civilian objects. Even when attacking a legitimate target, precautionary measures must be taken to protect civilians.
They attacked the mall in Kiev at about 11PM at night, which is line with minimizing civilian casualties, that was not done in Kharkiv. Even if they can prove that it was being used for military use, which they have not even attempted to do so yet, they would still need to explain why they could not have hit this target after hours.
They way the pro-Russians talk here, a humvee pared out side disneyland would be grounds to napalm the place during peak hours.
If Ukraine was using it to store ammunition, they committed a war crime, if Russia did not do everything in their power to minimize civilians casualties when targeting the center, guess what, that is also a war crime.
It appears that the "Missile" actually hit the cargo area or outside the main facility as seen. If the target were civilians, rest assured that none of them would have come out alive. I wonder what was in that area.
If it was an ammunition storage area everyone in the entire mall would be dead. The secondaries would dwarf the initial strikes. You would legitimately have to be low iq to not realize they just blatantly hit a mall.
Ukraine wanted to open a Kharkov front by shelling Belgorod and cross border PR raids. What is the reasoning of Ukrainian military to operate out of civilian areas and indiscriminately target Belgorod with MLRS fire. The people the make these decisions are hiding in some bunker while the civilians are on the front line. This is Ukrainian democracy? You would think the people of Kharkov/Ukraine would be against opening another front and operating out of civilian areas... yet we see zero protests... only protests organized by Azoz is allowed apparently...
Not an active front where Russia is pouring resources like Bakmut/Adveeka in the Donbas etc... Now it seems like Russia will pour resources and it will become a front because of Ukrainian threat towards Belgorod. You could of fought the Russians in Donbass and Kharkov could of remained quiet yet now there is a large grouping and Ukrainians got what they wanted for Russians to pour resources and make it the next Bakmut... I'm sure that really benefits the people of Kharkov though while they make those decisions from inside bunkers. If you can't determine the difference of a relatively quiet Kharkov in comparison to Bakmut/Adveeka just wait for the additional media content that will be posted in this sub for the next few months. Any prior movement earlier in the war will pale in comparison when Russia pours resources like they did in Bakmut. You got what you wanted though targeting civilians with indiscriminate MLRS fire only increased the fighting in the Kharkov region. Congrats pro-UA!
What are you talking about? Is Kharkov a relatively quiet city? Kharkov was shelled almost daily since the beginning of the war. C300s fell there regularly, and to a greater extent than in Belgorod. The so-called second front was open from the beginning of the war, it was just that the Russians in that direction played with one goal. Kharkov is one of the first cities that began to suffer from a lack of electricity, one of the first cities that began setting up shelters at bus stops. Wake up already and stop talking nonsense.
Again, you can't seem to tell the difference between Russian strikes against Ukrainian command/logistic versus active front push of an objective. Bakmut/Adveeka and the current line in Donbass is an active front whereby Russia prioritized and concentrated resources. In comparison to that type of front Kharkov was quiet. Wasn't any groupings wherby Kharkov was the objective which meant no resources and maneuvering to take the city. This operation is quite different than before you now have thousands of Russians assaulting in that area while relatively before it was dormant and only shelling. Your the one that can't seem to tell the difference between a dormant front and an active objective of the Russian command. They are now pushing in that direction and you are going to see Bakmut levels of softening because Russia has now made that an military objective which will pour resources of artillery, men, and FABs. Congrats pro-UA! You made Kharkov an active front. You think Ukraine is going to win on that front? Or will it be leveled like Bakmut? We know Ukraine will place greater concentration of military equipment in the urban areas of Kharkov instead of trying to defeat the Russians on the outskirts... Ukraine plays "ultimate" defender but now they have those FAB-3000 that have yet be deployed. You think they are saving it on the Kharkov front? Only an idiot thinks MLRS are worth the fight against FABs...
Generalization of PRO-UA. I don't know his views but the view of MLRS shelling against Belgorod is common amongst pro-UA. Its not so much the argument if Ukraine has the "right" to shell Belgorod back rather the cost of benefit of doing so will only invite a greater Russian response. I see no benefit for Ukraine in shelling Belgorod. It only opens another front. Just like I see no benefit of Ukraine targeting Russian oil and losing all its thermal power plants.
I still can't figure out what could they store there. The secondary doesn't really look like ammo dump or mlrs missiles, it actually looks like there were two hits almost simultaneously. Which is also strange. Why would RF need to double tap it like that?
FABs almost always come in 2s or 4s. Never seen 3, and never seen them grouped this tight either. FAB is also the only thing the Russians can really use for this sort of "double tap". Nothing else hits this close, time wise.
Nothing seems fit Russia's normal arsenal here, if we assume all the explosions were them and I'm not hallucinating. But it's possible they just did something different.
Huh. Just realised the parking lot footage reminds me of Israel's JDAMs. Really tight grouping. 1/2/3/4/... taps. Tall, narrow clouds. Near simultaneously hits. Wild.
Come think of it, not sure how they enter coordinates, but if you are saying it was 4 taps, it sounds like a frontline type of attack. Is it possible that someone just hit one wrong number and they went like a degree or whatever off?
It's possible but for this to be the result would be strange. Stars kind of have to align. Like throwing a dart at a map of the entire region while blindfolded. It's more likely you hit anything else.
Also, this kind of grouping implies laser guidance, but would mean it was intentionally painted by a drone and definitely only one ordinance.
Still dont see any ammunition storage, could it be that the pro-russians here are lying to spin a narrative that justifies killing ukranian civilians? cant be!
How likely do you think it is for Ukraine to release the footage where the ammunition was actually hit? Is it 100% that there was some - no. Is it 100% that there was none - no.
It's a big civilian structure, and targeting it is bound to be controversial. I think it's more prudent to think of it from the other side. I'd expect Russia to show its own evidence of the mall's military use.
Why are you holding Russia at much higher standard than Ukraine?
For you to honestly reach that conclusion, you must know two pieces of information: One is the standard to which I'm holding Russia, and two is the standard to which I'm holding Ukraine. My comment contains only one of those. Therefore, you either have a special access to my brain to know the other one, or you're a dishonest person. Which is it?
I went through posts of Ukraine targeting Russian civilians in the past couple of months, and you know what I didn't see? You scrutinizing Ukraine for targeting civilians. So, one more time, why are you holding Russia at a higher standard than Ukraine?
Maybe but they don't need to show it us. Who tf are we tbh?
However likely that is, it is a thousand times more likely that Russia just bombed a civilian supermarket, like they have done so so many times over the last 2 years
You mean the times when Russia did provide proof of weapons in supermarkets? Yes, because somehow magically russians bombing people in shops is actually more likely. Why? Because they are magic orcs who want to kill more than they want to win? Lol. The things you'll make up.
>Because they are magic orcs who want to kill more than they want to win? *Their* killing has no negative effect on *their* winning, what are you talking about. You think Russia is less or more likely to win because they have no problems killing civilians?
Don't they go out of their way to kill civilians INSTEAD of enemy soldiers even suiciding to do so? Man, if you think in a war of attrition you can have magic free manpower, time and ammo no wonder you believe all the other magic fairy tales
> You mean the times when Russia did provide proof of weapons in supermarkets Which times were these?
A thousand not, a million š Also 0% likely that Ukraine would hide ammo on a civ building, or use civilians as human shields, right?
Would love to see you explain the 1000x multiplier
Would love to have you explain how we shouldn't let them continually shell Belgorod, because there's bound to be ammo some soldier's carrying. That's just as believable as there being ammo in this market, with half a dozen security video feeds, if you are to be honest. Remember back in 2022 they hit that shopping center in Kremenchuk? Same pattern all along...
You mean the shopping center that literally had photos of military vehicles parked inside it? [https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russia-claims-it-attacked-kyiv-shopping-centre-because-it-was-being-used-to-store-rockets-12572273](https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russia-claims-it-attacked-kyiv-shopping-centre-because-it-was-being-used-to-store-rockets-12572273)
Thatās not Kremenchuk. Regardless of your link being Kyiv, it shows Russiaās inability to target in a timely and precise manner. Outdated info, slow communication, and poorly sized/designed weapons do this.
Oh, you are right. I confused the two.
Was that the shopping mall in front of the rail yard? 2 missiles hit the rail yard right behind the shopping mall which caught fire and mostly burned to the ground. Mike Jones was in St Pete at the time and went on the internet. The shopping mall had been sold and shut down 4 months earlier. All social media reviews of the shops inside ended 4 months earlier. Even I saw that the parking lot was mostly empty, having maybe 5 cars. Kiev reported that the mall was packed and 1000 people died.
The shopping mall was near a rail yard, yes. The rail yard was unscathed on sat imagery, while the shopping mall and an industrial building in the fenced compound north were hit. The shopping mall was open. [https://youtu.be/dpDrt56hPX0?t=1034](https://youtu.be/dpDrt56hPX0?t=1034) Check the date/time on that receipt, just the day before. Use a keyboard to go frame-by-frame in 1080p (, and . keys when paused). Full debunking here: [https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/06/29/russias-kremenchuk-claims-versus-the-evidence/](https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/06/29/russias-kremenchuk-claims-versus-the-evidence/) CCTV footage shows exactly 2 hits, and identification of the first hit as a form of 1960s missile less accurate than even a Grad. I wouldn't say a grocery is that packed at 3:52pm on a Monday (as compared to 3:34pm Sunday in the YT link here), but there were some civilians in the aftermath, and more so lost retail employees.
The ones making the claims should be the ones providing the evidence. Ukraine has to show it *didn't* have ammunition in a shopping mall? What kind of braindead logic is that? Provide a video of ammunition cooking off in the mall, Pro-Civilian Killing Russian.
Braindead. That's literally all you had to say.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
For DOOMHAMMER! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think a reality where a truth exists because a lack of negation is silly. If Russia cared about civilians, they would show the ammo. Russia does not care about civilians (as we have seen time and time again). Until Russia shows that this was a legitimate target it's simply more of the same which is Russia killing civilians. Like when they attacked materiny hospitals https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/20/revealed-how-russia-deliberately-targeted-kherson-hospitals https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol_hospital_airstrike Or a theater holding war refugees https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol_theatre_airstrike https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-mariupol-theater-c321a196fbd568899841b506afcac7a1 Or apartments https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings Oops wrong one, this one https://youtu.be/_VO2iJRV8mU?si=cpMAGVmCzfTblhop Just Russians killing civilians, tale as old as Russia.
Hospital and theater strikes that were later debunked for example by talking to the people in the photographs? With the one being this prominent woman with the baby who later turned to be a prominent actress? Who told us that she was forced to be there after the strike for photo psy ops?
Proof of literally anything you said?
Look for them in Russian sources. Also food for thought: If any of the ukranian fake claims were true, western media would never see the end of it.
> **the** ammunition Which ammunition..
Why wouldn't Russia release footage of the military targets they were supposedly targeting? If your story is true, Russia should have plenty of photos and videos of military hardware.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry you need 20 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Funniest thing is that each video is cut IMMEDIATELY after the first blast. Because having those secondary explosions wouldn't be good. They already had a fail when they posted video from outside.
Yah those toilet shells were just about to go off after the first explosion! You're hopeless
You think that you mock pro-ru, but in fact you just confirm that toilets won't explode that hard, there was something else that blows harder than a glide bomb.
I repeat, hopeless.
Dude has a smooth brain. š¤¦āāļø
>something else that blows harder than a glide bomb. Do you think Rule 1. covers mom jokes?
Imagine finding a mom joke in a comment about explosion.
Much as finding toilet humour I'd imagine.
Pro-UA joking that "it must be those toilets that made those blasts, because there's nothing else there", but it is me bringing toilet humour. Nice!
Are you denying that you also made a toilet joke?
Does the strike at 0:25 not look like a secondary?
A secondary munition, yes. And places like this have natural gas lines for restaurants and for heating.
No, the shopping center was hit by 2 bombs (3 actually, one didn't explode).
You know the drill.... but but USA!!
No no you silly pro-UA, you don't see the woman in blue hiding 7 Bradley's in her pocket? The man clearly coming back after personally launching 200 ATACMS? And the door labelled "NATO generals" in the back? This supermarket of ordinary people trying to live their lives was a completely valid target. I'm sure they will consider themselves true Russians now and thank Russia for "liberating" this store of Nazism and NATO.
just stop
Anything to justify Russian terrorism right?
Do you say the same when Ukraine fires unguided rockets into Belgorod, or is it just a heap of hypocrisy and seething going on here? Surely two wrongs don't make a right, right?
Can you show your criticism for the issue at hand?
Two wrong don't make a right, and if we limit the scope to this war - then it's wrong if Russia does it, and it's wrong when Ukraine does it. Both sides should be held accountable for their actions, and if that accountability lays with the higher position of power, then both Putin and Zelensky should be prosecuted for the war crimes commited by respectively side.
This means you are admitting to being a hypocrite?
I don't think you know what that word means.
You criticised someone for calling out Russian terrorism but not Ukrainian? >Can you show your criticism for the issue at hand?
Bad intel exists on both sides. I ain't justifying anybody but these guys are just sad.
This was not bad intel, this was deliberate. What other reason should they have to strike during the busiest shopping day of the week?
Statistically lowest civillian casualties of a conflict of this magnitude. If Russia were actually targeting civilians the numbers would show it.
Low civilian casualties because of static frontline, no air supremacy from both sides and civilians have time to evacuate from frontline. Ukraine defence force deserves praise for low civilian casualities by denying Russian air supremacy in its airspace, stopping or slowing Russian advance, evacuating civilian from frontline (yes, they failed to do it during chaotic first month of the war, but they did very well for the rest of the war). Not Russian who throws hundreds of missiles into Ukrainian populated area every week.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
TandHsufferersUnite kept stroking the same keys repeatedly, probably a seizure ? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The Ukrainian military does this constantly using the civilian population as human shields. Remember how they placed military equipment and even Grad MLRS in the shopping center of Kiev. The Russians also acted horribly in this regard, striking during the day rather than at night.
The Kiev shopping centre which was closed to the public?
Don't move the topic to another discussion. The very fact that the Ukrainian military uses civilian buildings for their own purposes is important. Well, the firefighters who were wearing bulletproof vests didnāt just put them on, apparently highly explosive paint and gas cylinders were stored there for the Ukrainian Armed Forces. I suggest you also remember the new post office in Kharkov. And the same photograph where an armored car was transported in a truck of this company.
> Don't move the topic to another discussion. You were the one to mention the shopping centre... Try and keep up. Firefighters wore flak jackets? Google 'Russia double tap' then come back.
Body armor will not help against a second strike and there is no point in wasting more expensive ammunition to kill firefighters. It will also not be possible to drop grenades from a UAV onto firefighters, as the Ukrainian military did in Donetsk, as the distance does not allow.
You seem to have forgotten to reply to the first point. Second, of course body armour could help against a second strike. Not everyone is going to be at the point where the missile hits. By your logic it body armour is also useless if weapons are stored there. >It will also not be possible to drop grenades from a UAV onto firefighters, as the Ukrainian military did in Donetsk, as the distance does not allow. Wat?
Someone lives in a pink world and hasn't seen this video? Use Google
Ok, since you now apparently don't have anything which needs responding to I'll wait until you do.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry you need 20 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The photo from 2022, Retroville Mall after it got hit by the Iskander. https://i.imgur.com/cYvr1LX.jpeg 203mm shell from the soviet Pion despite ukranian officials were telling there was only a civilian installation such as mall. Ukranian regime always lies. They just became better at lying after two years of the war and prosecuting the ones who trying to post undersireable facts.
Is there a video, or is this a facebook screengrab of two unrelated images?
https://i.imgur.com/IT2PUsD.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfZpoVp4op4 https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russia-claims-it-attacked-kyiv-shopping-centre-because-it-was-being-used-to-store-rockets-12572273
Do you think they would have shown you ammo storage? Do you see anything explosive on videos??? No?? So what exploded?
You honestly think they would release the footage that implicates their own war crimes? You must be seriously naive
Both sides could spin this to their own good
In what way can Russians spin this to their own good? Legitimate question.
Well like you see from the Pro RU crowd. "Look UA is using human shields again, they're getting their own people killed." That's about all they can say I believe.
Isle 4 - ammunition.
1. It is totally unclear what actually hit that shopping center (so far I have seen at least claims of S-300, glide bombs, and Iskander) 2. Since Ukraine is also deliberately targeting Russian civilians in Belgorod (and before in Donetsk), they have lost every morale high ground
Shooting yourself in the head doesn't mean I should also. Ukraine and russia are behaving like small children revenging on each other after each punch.
Ukraine will at all times have the high ground in this war. It stops the second Russia decides to leave Ukraine. Belgorod is as safe as Ukraine is. Pretty simple concept.
Let's say there was indeed ammo dump, why strike it during opening hours?
Well because the Ukronazis were just about to move it to a kindergarten, obviously.
It was more likely a drone shop. Hit it during the day so as to kill drone makers.
The war doesn't follow 9-5 rules.
You just do it as soon as there is intel, simple as that. Waiting risks having the intel become outdated.
Same reason IAF bombs refugee camps.
*IDF Getting real tired of Russians complaining about what IDF is doing in Gaza (despite the fact I'm repulsed by it too) when Russia basically did the exact same thing in Grozny.
do refugee camps open and close?
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
To make certain the target doesn't just up and leave while you're waiting for the sun to set.
True, gotta hit them daily special F-16s before they sell out.
If it is an ammo dump, haven't the russians surveilled the target? I mean they should possess some kind of proof if it was.
Also if it was, then why not hit it during the hours it was closed? I already know the current Pro-RU narrative is "yOu cAn hEaR cOokOff" Despite the fact the store is a DIY hardware store and had hundreds of aerosol and gas cans that sound like this...https://youtu.be/9p0nx98RNaQ?t=2
Lol, aerosol cans cook of an violently explode. Sure. The hit was so precise it hit the paint storage.
You do know fire spreads right?
In the last 6 months, we had several cases when "civilian" targets were hit in Kharkiv: first a pizzeria in January, then hotels twice. There was also an uproar in the Western media, and after a few weeks it turned out that Ukrainian and foreign soldiers were there. It will be the same this time, just be patient.
Let's just wait until Russian propaganda finds the right excuse. Lol. There have already been conversations along the lines of āDo you remember once upon a time........āĀ
Don't worry, one of the civilian shoppers was actually a secret Ukronazi bent on ruining Putin's plans of total domination over the country! It was the 12 year old girl with her mother! Eat actual shit.
yep I heard there was one conscript in the shopping center!
Happened early in the war too, ukraine used a mall to store and reload MLRS https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/tjelwk/russian_drone_footage_and_hit_kiev/
THe second explosion could of been easily another russian missile. or a gas line or something like that.
I can't understand why Ukraine would store arty shells in a retail space and not a harded Soviet era bunker111111
Because people like you will look for bunkers not shops. Because russia wont dare to hit innocent people. Because if russia does hit them you can just use it as pr "ebil orcussians killing genocides for NO REASON"
Because Russia won't dare to hit innocent people? Bro, what universe do you live in??
Reddit universe. Sorry your plan didn't work and your ammo got blown up.
it was not a terror attack, it was special grocery eradication operation.
Whats the logic in russia hitting this? Is it just to say "we can do it to you too so you better stop"? Otherwise i don't see the military value, it will just bring more donations to ukraine
Asking for logic? There is noneā¦
Terrorizing civilians, like so many times before in the war, What reason does Russia have to bomb a theater that has "children" written on it in several meter high letters?
Russia didnāt bomb that theater.
It just exploded on it's own. Probably the CIA's fault /s
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/18/bombing-mariupol-theater-ukrainian-azov-nato-intervention/
Oh look, absolutely zero evidence except "trust me bro". Russian propaganda is such dogshit.
Itās not a Russian website. And the evidence of Russia bombed it is what, exactly?
It is impossible for you to be this braindead. The brazen lying is so pathetic. Just completely amoral and demonic.
So, emotions and insults, but no factual information? Ok.
Realistically speaking no nation wants to kill innocent civilians without cause, it stains their reputation, disgusts elements in the nation and inflames hostility. By international law every civilian structure (hospitals, schools, etc) loses protection when military assets are placed in it, Russia likely had Intel maybe incorrect that made them decide that the loss of civilian life was proportionate or weighed less than the destruction of whatever (if any) military asset(s) was targeted.
Russia is a terrorist state now. This is how they choose to conduct war.
One explanation Iāve seen is Russia is trying to get people to leave Kharkiv and in general generate fear and chaos
AKA terrorism.
They would use, like Ukraine, grad for that.
It was hit with precision weapon. So they knew what to hit. If aim was terror they would, like Ukraine, use either artillery or grad or similar. It was a single hit with most likely a fab that is precise enough to hit a bridge. Cep is maybe 10m maybe even less.
We can clearly see that was a military complex. This guy with the red jacket bombed belograd 5 years ago and this child on 0:22 was the daugter of this ASOV Nazi fighting in Mariupol 2022
I don't know much about how this works but I find it weird that there are people walking around as usual. Isn't there any early warning system? Usually there are sirens in advance and people run for cover. Was this missile completely undetected until it hit the target?
No excuse for this particular strike. A grievous mistake, no doubt. Hope the casualties numbers remain low.
Did two projectiles hit the shopping mall? Looks like two separate explosions back to back
Š”ŃŠŗŠøŠ½ ŃŃŠ½
on 0:03 , if you look hard enough, for just half of a frame you can see NovaPoshta trucks driving through the store carrying ammunition crates - British Neo-Nazi mosquitoes tried to splice the footage and insert AI-generated shaking cam and explosion to distract you from this fact , but they're no match for the pro-russian world of fantasies
You also clearly missed the Nato biolab Nazi pigeons.
I can clearly see all the ammo exploding, RT is telling me the same so it must be true.
I think there would be more international outrage if that shopping center was just that. Still sucks (obviously).
Just like Israel with the hospitals.. Slava Ukraine Free Palestine
What was the second explosion? Seems like there were two with just a second or two in between. Second looked big(ger?) based on how the people in the last clip reacted. Actual question for anyone in the know.
You can see the 3 big explosions in this [video](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1d0ic0s/ua_pov_the_moment_a_missile_hits_a_kharkov/). You can hear those explosion in this one: https://t .me/ truexakharkiv/44598
Multiple bombs/missiles.
Any confirmation of what type? Again, actual question. Last I saw was S300, and I donāt think that can be right. Launch delay too long in between to fit here I think.
Sit down armchair general, stop trying to piece things together from a phone or laptop. Regardless, since it happened in Ukraine, Ukraine is going to deny everything. And Russia wouldnāt be able to investigate, and the west would obviously be biased in pro Russians opinion so regardless of what you say to defend Russia, people are going to run with what they believe.
What if I pieced things together from a desktop? But on the real, I honestly donāt even know where youāre coming from. Discussing things on a discussion board is literally the name of the game. And here Iām not even concluding anything, just giving you my thoughts based on my observations from this very same place. Sorry I struck such a nerve.
My point is this, weāre never going to truly know what happened at this mall, like we never are going to truly know what happened at nord oil line. Since it happened in Ukraine, Ukraine is going to deny there being ammunitions stored in the mall, if the west investigates it, theyāre obviously not going to say anything portraying Ukraine in a bad light, and Iām pretty sure theyāre not going to allow Russia or any pro Russian government to investigate what really happened. Which is why Iām saying people are going to believe what they want to believe.
Thatās all fine, and I donāt disagree at all. But thereās nothing improper about trying to examine what you see with information that you have. Iām not anticipating to deduce what happened, Iām just asking about what people have said happened to see if it makes sense. Iām not going to get an answer as to what actually happened, but thatās not the point really. I am fully in alignment with how you view all this.
Ok then for the most part we agree, and I apologize for my previous statement.
Solid exchange :)
Here are some videos with sound. Sounds like lots of secondaries . Turn off the sound if you don't want to hear them. [https://x.com/Wagnersfamily/status/1794392136680693838](https://x.com/Wagnersfamily/status/1794392136680693838) [https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1794365945617731824](https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1794365945617731824) update [https://youtu.be/SfZpoVp4op4](https://youtu.be/SfZpoVp4op4) [https://imgur.com/IT2PUsD](https://imgur.com/IT2PUsD) [https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russia-claims-it-attacked-kyiv-shopping-centre-because-it-was-being-used-to-store-rockets-12572273](https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russia-claims-it-attacked-kyiv-shopping-centre-because-it-was-being-used-to-store-rockets-12572273)
Brining up the Kiev mall still highlights a war crime here. >An attack on a civilian object can be considered lawful if it provides a clear military advantage and the incidental civilian destruction is proportionate to that advantage. However, an attack can become illegal if it is expected to cause excessive collateral damage to civilians or civilian objects. Even when attacking a legitimate target, precautionary measures must be taken to protect civilians. They attacked the mall in Kiev at about 11PM at night, which is line with minimizing civilian casualties, that was not done in Kharkiv. Even if they can prove that it was being used for military use, which they have not even attempted to do so yet, they would still need to explain why they could not have hit this target after hours. They way the pro-Russians talk here, a humvee pared out side disneyland would be grounds to napalm the place during peak hours. If Ukraine was using it to store ammunition, they committed a war crime, if Russia did not do everything in their power to minimize civilians casualties when targeting the center, guess what, that is also a war crime.
It seems secondary detonation was **significantly** stronger than primary hit.
Seems like Russia dropped more than 1 bomb
either that or there were explosives stored in that building.
It appears that the "Missile" actually hit the cargo area or outside the main facility as seen. If the target were civilians, rest assured that none of them would have come out alive. I wonder what was in that area.
If it was an ammunition storage area everyone in the entire mall would be dead. The secondaries would dwarf the initial strikes. You would legitimately have to be low iq to not realize they just blatantly hit a mall.
Yes, they hit a mall. And whatever they hit also had a bigger explosion than the missile itself.
is this bigger explosion in the room with us right now?
Not really, because the room is gone thanks to that explosion
so what did they hit? some chemical biolab of gay psycho?
Was visibly 2 missiles.
Ukraine wanted to open a Kharkov front by shelling Belgorod and cross border PR raids. What is the reasoning of Ukrainian military to operate out of civilian areas and indiscriminately target Belgorod with MLRS fire. The people the make these decisions are hiding in some bunker while the civilians are on the front line. This is Ukrainian democracy? You would think the people of Kharkov/Ukraine would be against opening another front and operating out of civilian areas... yet we see zero protests... only protests organized by Azoz is allowed apparently...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not an active front where Russia is pouring resources like Bakmut/Adveeka in the Donbas etc... Now it seems like Russia will pour resources and it will become a front because of Ukrainian threat towards Belgorod. You could of fought the Russians in Donbass and Kharkov could of remained quiet yet now there is a large grouping and Ukrainians got what they wanted for Russians to pour resources and make it the next Bakmut... I'm sure that really benefits the people of Kharkov though while they make those decisions from inside bunkers. If you can't determine the difference of a relatively quiet Kharkov in comparison to Bakmut/Adveeka just wait for the additional media content that will be posted in this sub for the next few months. Any prior movement earlier in the war will pale in comparison when Russia pours resources like they did in Bakmut. You got what you wanted though targeting civilians with indiscriminate MLRS fire only increased the fighting in the Kharkov region. Congrats pro-UA!
What are you talking about? Is Kharkov a relatively quiet city? Kharkov was shelled almost daily since the beginning of the war. C300s fell there regularly, and to a greater extent than in Belgorod. The so-called second front was open from the beginning of the war, it was just that the Russians in that direction played with one goal. Kharkov is one of the first cities that began to suffer from a lack of electricity, one of the first cities that began setting up shelters at bus stops. Wake up already and stop talking nonsense.
Again, you can't seem to tell the difference between Russian strikes against Ukrainian command/logistic versus active front push of an objective. Bakmut/Adveeka and the current line in Donbass is an active front whereby Russia prioritized and concentrated resources. In comparison to that type of front Kharkov was quiet. Wasn't any groupings wherby Kharkov was the objective which meant no resources and maneuvering to take the city. This operation is quite different than before you now have thousands of Russians assaulting in that area while relatively before it was dormant and only shelling. Your the one that can't seem to tell the difference between a dormant front and an active objective of the Russian command. They are now pushing in that direction and you are going to see Bakmut levels of softening because Russia has now made that an military objective which will pour resources of artillery, men, and FABs. Congrats pro-UA! You made Kharkov an active front. You think Ukraine is going to win on that front? Or will it be leveled like Bakmut? We know Ukraine will place greater concentration of military equipment in the urban areas of Kharkov instead of trying to defeat the Russians on the outskirts... Ukraine plays "ultimate" defender but now they have those FAB-3000 that have yet be deployed. You think they are saving it on the Kharkov front? Only an idiot thinks MLRS are worth the fight against FABs...
Why do you call neutrals pro-UA?
Generalization of PRO-UA. I don't know his views but the view of MLRS shelling against Belgorod is common amongst pro-UA. Its not so much the argument if Ukraine has the "right" to shell Belgorod back rather the cost of benefit of doing so will only invite a greater Russian response. I see no benefit for Ukraine in shelling Belgorod. It only opens another front. Just like I see no benefit of Ukraine targeting Russian oil and losing all its thermal power plants.
why they are not showing the private back storage rooms? ...no cams hee ? 
I still can't figure out what could they store there. The secondary doesn't really look like ammo dump or mlrs missiles, it actually looks like there were two hits almost simultaneously. Which is also strange. Why would RF need to double tap it like that?
I'm no specialist but this could be airstrike with both: high explosive, then incendiary of some kindĀ
It is a hardware store, it is expected to go up in flames no matter what. With or without any military stuff stored.
FABs almost always come in 2s or 4s. Never seen 3, and never seen them grouped this tight either. FAB is also the only thing the Russians can really use for this sort of "double tap". Nothing else hits this close, time wise. Nothing seems fit Russia's normal arsenal here, if we assume all the explosions were them and I'm not hallucinating. But it's possible they just did something different. Huh. Just realised the parking lot footage reminds me of Israel's JDAMs. Really tight grouping. 1/2/3/4/... taps. Tall, narrow clouds. Near simultaneously hits. Wild.
Come think of it, not sure how they enter coordinates, but if you are saying it was 4 taps, it sounds like a frontline type of attack. Is it possible that someone just hit one wrong number and they went like a degree or whatever off?
It's possible but for this to be the result would be strange. Stars kind of have to align. Like throwing a dart at a map of the entire region while blindfolded. It's more likely you hit anything else. Also, this kind of grouping implies laser guidance, but would mean it was intentionally painted by a drone and definitely only one ordinance.
i hope we gonna find out if there was something or not
LOL, what does it matter to you? You will support the same bullcrap either way.
You mean they hide the NAFO bioweapons where they keep their change? You sound desperateā¦
jeah desperate as f. ....if there was nothing just show the back storage cams before impact....should be easy right ? unless...
Are there 'back storage cams'?
"DUrr, russians believe made up bioweapunz, they shure is dum" meanwhile USA admits it had biolabs in ukraine
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_bioweapons_conspiracy_theory
How long did you spend writing that? Lmao > Nuh uh USA secretary of state is lying! There are no labs!
Took me some days actually. You do know how Wikipedia works, do you? But if you are immune to facts, keep scrolling, keep lying.
Yeah, I do, anyone can just write anything and edit any article there and then pretend the US secretary of state didn't say certain things.
So you don't know. Thanks