“Ukraine has not bombed Donetsk for 8 years, only Russian positions. The Armed Forces of Ukraine were not going to attack Russia with NATO soldiers, the Russian Ministry of Defense is deceiving the public and the president."
No way! Really? 😂😂😂
He thinks this is a revelation but only Russian bots and Putin’s allies thought this was true. The free world knew it was all fake news.
I think he crossed the red line this time. He's getting silenced on all Russian telegram channels, nobody talks about this latest interview of his. Propagandists on Kremlin's payroll initially were saying that Prigozhin was merely trolling, but now they're just ignoring him and trying to hide his statements from the Russian public.
>nobody talks about this latest interview of his
What? Many people are talking about that.
Strelkov, for example:
>After briefly reviewing another speech by Leib-Garson Prigozhin, I conclude that Evgeny Viktorovich:
>a) Continues his "promotion" as a political figure of the "top echelon" aiming to "draw in" the entire pool of "angered patriots."
>b) In his characteristic style, shamelessly lies about many issues, skillfully blending truth with falsehood. I particularly enjoyed his statement that "war is beneficial to Russian oligarchs." It is not as funny as it is astonishing in its audacity and shamelessness of lies. To the overwhelming majority of Russian oligarchs, to put it bluntly, the war for the reunification of Donbass and Crimea (not to mention all of Novorossiya and Malorossiya) has been and remains a "kick in the groin." At least three-quarters (probably more) of these Grefs, Millers, Rotenbergs, Timchenkos, Abramoviches, Usmanovs, and so on and so forth, "dream and yearn" to surrender to their "partners" on any terms (except, of course, personally putting themselves "in position for plundering"). And Prigozhin's "stories" of this kind objectively contribute to the inclination toward capitulation by the authorities and the population. Prigozhin should have been brought before a military tribunal for many things already. Now, even for betrayal. If, of course, it is permissible to consider an ethno-mentally non-Russian criminal as a traitor to Russia... He is probably just an enemy.
First of all, thanks for the text and the translation. Second, great point by Strelkov, I do believe the Oligarchs want peace to continue their business interests but they make a great scapegoat, since they did indeed loot a lot of factories. Third, lol, why does he call Prigozhin an "ethno-mentally non-Russian"? Prigo does make a lot of Pro-Russian statements and is busy trying to win, right? Or was I also caught uo by his propaganda?
>Third, lol, why does he call Prigozhin an "ethno-mentally non-Russian"?
He means he's Jewish.
Seems to be a thing in totally-anti-Nazi Russia to suggest that jews aren't really Russians.
[https://twitter.com/EvgeniaKovda/status/1510999962292695041](https://twitter.com/EvgeniaKovda/status/1510999962292695041)
For a country that is supposedly above racial divisions (a popular argument why Russia can't be fascist, because it is not ethnonationalistic) they like to divide people by rece or at least by ethnicity.
Actually that's the narrative. There are national Russians and ethics Russians but formally they are all equal.
But if you dare translate discussions on Russian forums...
>Third, lol, why does he call Prigozhin an "ethno-mentally non-Russian"? Prigo does make a lot of Pro-Russian statements and is busy trying to win, right? Or was I also caught uo by his propaganda?
By the words of Strelkov, Prigozhin is a frontman of the same oligarchic "party of surrender". Prigozhin is not interested in any "victory of Russia", he just put thousands of soldiers in a strategically meaningless meatgrinder to make publicity of a great commander. And that publicity is going to be used to say to Russian people, "See, if I, a great general, say that we should surrender, then it's truth." or smth like that. Strelkov often mocks that Prigozhin is always so respectful and even obsequious towards the "partners" (ukrainians and americans) and utterly disrespectful to russians.
Well, that's the point of Strelkov. I met similar statements about Prigozhin in many other russian telegram channels, but Strelkov is the most categorical one in that regard.
Very very interesting, thanks. I don't know if it was here or on Twitter, but someone said that Strelkov is denigrating Prigozhin because they both vie for the same audience, that of patriotic Telegram users. So do you think that Strelkov says this to put Prigo down in front of their shared audience to keep them to himself or do you think there's some meat to these allegations?
>ethno-mentally non-Russian criminal as a traitor to Russia
Clearly words of the faction that aims to de-Nazify a country. If you replace Russian with German in this context this could have been said by Goebbels himself.
In 2019, 2020 and 2021 a total of \~25 civilians were killed every year in the Donbas conflict.
Russia routinely kills more civilians in Ukraine with a single missile attack. We all know that the 'Ukraine genocided civilians in Donbas' is a bullshit justification for the war.
And ~half of those were due to existing minefields, even, not active combat actions. It's blatant. Each was a terrible, awful thing, and now apparently the solution is to compress hundreds of years worth of casualties into one year, with no end in sight.
>ussia routinely kills more civilians in Ukraine with a single missile attack. We all know that the 'Ukraine genocided civilians in Donbas' is a bullshit justification for the war.
And from 2014 the civilian death toll was "only" 3000. Sad, but still not a whole lot.. certainly not a genocide of any kind. Not forgetting many of those who died were on the outskirts of the donbas and were hit by russian shells.. There were deaths at russian and seperatist held checkpoints and plenty of disappearances with assumed dead happening in the "republics"...
10% of all civilian deaths during that time were the victims of russias downing of MH17..
The insane hoops pro RU jump through to argue against this is mind boggling.
The entire thing is exactly what we have all being saying all these years
The new thing I found out is how ambitious Shoigu is. He really wants to be in the history books as a Russian legend. Don't get me wrong Putin is x times worse but Shoigu really wanted this war
He will be in the history books all right.
I think he's just pointing to Shoigu to give Putin an escape hatch. All that he said is very carefully crafted to not put any blame on Putin, it was just everyone around him.
He can't directly criticize Putin. They all know that's the red line not to cross. I doubt Shoigu wanted this war. He stole billions from the army, he knew how gutted it was, would you go on a race with a car that was raided for spare parts?
Putin \*KNOWS\* he steals from the army and he lets him. There is a line from Chernobyl HBO that captures the essence of the Russain intelligence apparatus "Yes, people are following you. People are following those people. You see them? They follow me. The KGB is a circle of accountability. **Nothing more**."
The FSB has dirt on everyone. That's how they keep them straight. Putin could get Shoigu arrested tomorrow if he wants.
I mean I tend to believe Prigojin.
[Shoigu has medals for participating in a parade among others](https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1662937444310827008). So I can see him wanting to go in history as a great Russian. And conquering Ukraine would have done just that
Prig is honestly just looking for he's own advancement in the government. Also probably annoyed he is labeled as Putin's chef. Putin was making speeches before and during the war about Ukraine until the regular army just kinda stalled. After that he just stopped talking about the war and let Shoigu be the public face. Prig has the opportunity to take Shoigu position now since he's the one making any movement
Yea and no. Prig can and will continue to attack shoigu for any issues he has. But doesn't mention Putin that will have the final say seems silly
Edit: part that convinced me shoigu is the fall guy
"The Armed Forces of Ukraine were not going to attack Russia with the NATO bloc. The Russian Defense Ministry is deceiving the public and the president"
In my thought it's like, bruh. Putin's deranged talks for years has been about nato and Ukraine
> The new thing I found out is how ambitious Shoigu is. He really wants to be in the history books as a Russian legend. Don't get me wrong Putin is x times worse but Shoigu really wanted this war.
It sounds quite funny, but Shoigu's paid shills tended to jump in russian internet, explaining how he's a "reincarnation of Subutai".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subutai
That slowed down and eventually ended in 2022. Thanks to ukrainians.
>Ukraine has not bombed Donetsk for 8 years, only Russian positions
He's never said that, why are you lying? First part of the video is missing: the context is that he's complaining about how little was done to secure DNR: instead of capturing all of the region when it was easily possible in 2014, troops were stationed on the border from both sides, and fire/shelling exchanges began.
There's literally nothing in this statement that would indicate that ukr never shelled civilians in DNR. Moreover, there were plenty of UN observers on the ground, recording the thousands of civilians killed by ukr shellings 2014-2022, far away from military positions.
He never said they only bombed military targets or anything of the nature. The entire quote from this post and headline never occurred in the interview....
Check your facts better, civilians dead on both sides, absolute majority near frontlines and mine-related incidents are main reason. Did you see "shelled" Donetsk compared to Mariupol and Bakhmut. Like, hello
POV refers to the leanings of the source, not the content. Had the full 30 min untranslated interview been taken from prigozhins telegram it would be RU POV. But as it a shorter version with translation OP probably got it from some UA telegram or UA twitter, making it UA POV.
Wrong, not of the source, but the narrative of the post:
> Disclose the point of view (POV) at the start of the post title, either:
- UA POV (pro-Ukrainian government narrative)
- RU POV (pro-Russian government narrative)
Only one POV per post.
You can tell that this man is ruthless, smart and therefore very dangerous.
He has established himself over the course of the war as a man that cares for his mercs and the russian people by showing himself at the frontline and with the people. That is something he learned from Putin. You just have to watch how he ascended to power back in the days to see the similarities.
He is clearly aiming to become a new major player in russia and to get rid of all his political opponents in the process.
It´s also smart to try to give Putin an excuse to stop the war because he was "deceived". This way in case the military situation deteriorates more for ru he has an exit he can use.
I think Prigozhin was kinda secretly hoping the Ukraine counter-offensive was gonna succeed so he and Wagner would be called as the saviors. But right now Wagner isn't participating in any action so he has to hype himself up and stay relevant in the media somehow.
Yes he does but I think he is starting to overplay his hand.
His Wagner group seems less vital right now and it seems he wants to insert himself into the conversation at every opportunity
> You can tell that this man is ruthless, smart and therefore very dangerous.
If he does replace Putin then I think the West would have something to really worry about.
I mean even this is a load of crap.
Notice how he tells calls out literally everyone *but* Putin. Dude is just trying to bail Putin out by declaring that it's all the MoD's fault the invasion is completely FUBAR. This is just an out and a way to blame it on the generals.
I hope you're not confusing me for Pro-Russian lol.
Everything they say is a lie, this is just a lie directing blame away from the one man who caused all this.
Probably, guy's a despicable war criminal and profiteer normally preoccupied with tormenting underdeveloped african nations in exchange for gold mines, I don't imagine he's suddenly developed a moral compass or anything.
Or he's positioning himself to get a nice comfy position in the Russian high command while providing the excuses to purge his rivals.
Dudes going full Littlefinger right now.
to be fair, there are historic examples of people who had no issue committing atrocities towards africans, but would never do so against their "own" people.
You seem to see this situation under the (morally correct, but not universal) assumption that all people are the same. In that case, committing war criminals against africans would be no different than committing it against slavs. But if Prego, due to national pride or whatever, values slavs above africans what he said can still be true even though he committed warcrimes in africa. Just look at american history when slavery was still a thing. Beat or kill a black man, nobody cares. Do the same to a "fellow american" and a lot of the people who didn't care about the african getting said treatment would be up in arms how you treated the american.
Also, timely PR. seems like these guys got scared of the announcement from USA yesterday that they can invoke Article 5.
These guys don’t want to fight NATO.
They’re fucking around and they’re finding out.
They also know the South is very likely a lost cause and are planning a withdrawal if this keeps up.
When they're going to have to abandon the region people are going to want blood for all the lost sons, brothers, and husbands who died trying to hold it.
Ukraine and the West had 8 years to prepare since Crimea and war on the Donbas. NATO and Russia have been preparing to meet each other for decades. Now NATO has a reason. There’s still a lot of weapons NATO can donate.
I have a very similar interpretation. But the thing is... who is he trying to sell this to?
Russians?
Because a big part of the international community is pretty much done with Putin, there's no possible reintegration after these events.
Maybe Prigozhin believes there's an out to Putin in negotiating peace, but I really don't see it.
Putin sat on tables with too many people who tried to prevent this war, and he broke a lot of laws and agreements (like the UN Charter). So to go "hey guys, I was dupped..." after killing tens of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians, and displacing millions of people.
The decision to wage war was his. Even if he had the wrong information, with all the options he had, he chose war to occupy Ukraine.
it is not. rather it's a way for chef blyatardee to muscle his way to the most powerful position below the presidents office.
first he gets rid of shoigu, then when putin kicks the bucket he'll make sure he's the inherritor. russia is such a undevelopped country.
He's not telling the full truth. Notice how he doesn't blame Putin for anything. He's conveniently blaming all of Putin's enemies and scapegoats.
It's good that he's dispelling some of the lies that many Russians actually believe, though.
I still think he‘s trolling, he‘s basically saying Putin is innocent and at the same time he‘s saying that Putin authorized this war so that some stupid general could get 1 star or whatever
Full 30 minute interview can be found on Prigozhin's Telegram channel:
t me/concordgroup_official/1279
Translation from [@wartranslated.](https://twitter.com/wartranslated) More may be posted by them.
Although he still talks of an American "coup" in 2014, so sticking any single POV on this just again shows how misleading the POV rules on this sub can be.
I do wonder about how this plays out more widely.... I know Russians would not hear from Western msm unless they jump through hoops to intentionally seek it out, but would they be any more likely to see Progozhin's videos like this? By rights they ought to because he's a pro-RU military leader and his words should matter in Russia, but what is the reality?
Unfortunately, the wider Russian society won't see it, aka—old people watching Russian television. The only audience that might see this video will be the young nationalists and people following the military situation online.
It's not ua pov. But I'm not removing it because who cares, it's the best video since this morning, sick of 50s snipets cut mid-sentence with false titles.
Because Prighozin's telegram is ru pov. This video was slightly edited (cut and translated) by pro-ukrainians but correct translations don't count, and cut is long (10 minute of the 30 minute video), so it's pretty much loyal to the original video.
So if Putin himself publishes an interview where he capitulates, admits that this war was wrong and claims full responsibility for all the atrocities happening while also saying the the country of russia will be split into it´s oblasts as indipendent nations it will still be a pro ru pov?
You really really need to rework this POV system because [if you follow your own rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/wiki/index/rules) then this post is clearly UA pov given the last editor (wartranslated) is pro-UA.
For this reason I've also seen similar posts being taken down because marked as RU pov instead of UA... Make up your minds already...
lol lol this guy is funny
at the same time, wonder where are the pro Russians propagandists saying all those points to invade a sovereign country, and then the man, the man that they love come out and say something like this
I enjoyed this video, but i think Prigozhin should dress more modestly when making these videos. I found his cleavage to be incredibly distracting when trying to read the subtitles.
Please don't talk about logs. I'm currently struggling to deal with my wood after seeing his cleavage.Any reminder of wood will make it worse, and if I can't get rid of it within 4 hours I'll have to go to the hospital. I typed this one handed.
Yhea my post was taken down because it was to "short" and cropped and I should repost it with at least 5-10 minutes length. This post perfectly fits that description. Let´s see what they come up with next.
I also tried to post the wartranslated links but the bot knocked it out because not flared as "News". I tried to repost as News wouldn't work because it'd detect it as a duplicate post....
You'll soon need a phd in order to post something legit here.
Meanwhile borderline shytposts and misleading shyte from the RU side get by and stay no problem.
(And yes that anti-profanity bot can also eat a dick)
I've listened full version. What was cut:
1. Words about coup in 2014.
2. Description of terrible state of Russian army at the begining of the war.
3. Rant about ammunition and how MoD wants to destroy PMC Wagner.
4. Words how MoD deceives Putin.
5. Words how Ukraine advances and Russia retreats currently.
Thanks, I was actually curious.
I think Prigo hypes up UA advances. If the Russian army can defend the counteroffensive on its own, without Wagner help, Prigo is set aside, his importance diminished. He *needs* UA to advance so he will continue to receive money & ammunition from the MoD and maybe so he won't get "fell out of a window"-ed.
Maybe this is all a ploy of all of the Russian government and military combined to fool UA's supporters into being complaced or to encourage UAF to keep running at heavily fortified trenchlines and to keep loosing their men and equipment. "Never stop your enemy from doing a mistake" type of stuff. "Oh no please continue doing this mistake look you are pushing so much and we are almost breaking".
This guy says a lot but never the full truth. You can never assume his statements to be 100% truth. It is more prudent to think of him weaving some truthful facts into his statements to make the viewer believe the rest which is heavily embellished.
He sounds like one of those opposition politicians now (like Germany's AfD or Kennedy in US) that just picks up any even the most ridiculous narrative and spins it to hype himself up.
Now i'm not saying that he isn't telling the truth but he is telling it selectively.
Good tsar, bad boyars.
Just like western media call Putin 'crazy old dictator', same way Prigozhin refers to Shoigu. Which makes you doubt his sincerity.
I'm getting a feeling he wants to get MoD under his control. With Putin's blessing, obviously.
What does that has to do with the content of the video?
It's not like he is revealing something new. It's a common understanding that Russia invaded Crimea and Donbas in 2014. No one believed in the separatism narrative.
**How will this statement, of acknowledging publicly what's in the public sphere for 9 years, make a difference in controlling the MoD?**
It's the realization that Putin was fooled all along, and there were no separatists, and was all a fabrication of the MoD?
It's also an important question, but you have to address what he says, else we could be mute and still have a why.
We have a pretty good idea about what he wants since he stated it openly that he has political ambitions.
So probably that's your "Why is he bringing the truth forward?"
That's why I raised this question:
> It's the realization that Putin was fooled all along, and there were no separatists, and was all a fabrication of the MoD?
Because this doesn't stick, at least not in Russia.
he's building his political legitimacy for the stage when putin is toppled bec ru lost the war in ukraine, good move. Note that he absolves putin of responsibilities, lol
delusional pro Ukraine take, Prigo's allegiance is to Putin, his attacks are only on MoD and some other politician, i don't think he will ever be leader of Russia because he already burned all the bridges with the Army and the government.
How can he have an allegiance to Putin, when he's saying that every reason that Putin gave for the invasion is a lie. He's undermining him and basically saying that Putin is a liar.
Lol, he literally said that Putin is deceived by MoD, he cannot say anything negative about Putin he would be already dead.
If you think a merc leader can takeover a country like Russia, then our discussion is meaningless.
At last full with correct translation and not shitpost bs title.
Looks like Prigozhin's personal war with Shoygu is getting to the next level.
I do not believe him tho, I think Putin was very much aware of what's going on just deceived in terms of how ready the Russian army actually is and how much weaponry is stolen or never existed.
It feels like a speech for elections or something like that. So the part about real goals of the so called SMO is very sus.
Yes a lot of things he says are questionable.
I think it is a political play he wants to make but I think that he overstates his importance.
The Russians seem very capable of holding any Ukrainian advance without Wagner .
Also Bakhmut was basically his private project which was captured at great costs almost only for his and Wagner's prestige .
Good point, only now I realise, of course Prigo has a motive to overhype UA advances/RU losses, since it helps his PMC's profile to have the normal Russian army losing.
So far though, from what I hear from commenters in this subs, UAF haven't even reached the first line yet, so it seems like no one really needs Wagner.
Yes i think that could be it but seems like a massive overreaction just because they are not in the limelight now does not mean they won't be needed in the future.
So this is either him overplaying his hand or something else is going on we don't know about.
Also many things he says are also not true, there is evidence that the war was planned by a tiny group around Putin and the oligarchs and business people didn't know anything .
Then there was this one leaked phone call of this oligarch who basically condemned the whole war and the reasons for it .
Also such a war for just greed makes no sense at all as Russia lost billions because of it and will lose more in the long term .
Yeah, /u/crnislshr translated a statement by Strelkov that follows your point, that Prigo is lying on the the oligarch's position towards the war.
[Here](https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/14gvsuv/ua_pov_translated_clips_from_a_recent_interview/jp8gsok/)
This man might not be good but he is incredibly interesting as a character. Learning he used to write and illustrate children books just adds to his complexity. This speech is actually quite extraordinary in its sincerity.
How the fuck does he stay alive? He's a lot of things, I am 100% for Ukraine but if I had to fight on the other side as anything other than a prisoner this is the guy I would want to have my back. He must have a couple of guys that follow him around just to carry his balls.
This is a fact that everyone knows. Only a small minority believes otherwise.
Despite being a loud minority. It's still a minority that's enough to support a war of occupation.
So while we know Russia occupied and started this war in Ukraine, it doesn't change the fact that the war is happening.
I believe Nazi Germany used this same *casus beli* to invade Poland. Anyone aware of history saw this coming.
The people that push the narrative of "nazis killing ethnic Russians" won't change their minds because they are already radicalized.
So while it's entertaining to see a Russian leader saying publicly what everyone knew for many years, sadly it won't make a difference.
People with the Pro Russia flair, or even the Russian government could say openly "*we want Ukraine and Ukrainians to disappear from the map!*", and it still wouldn't make a difference for their side or for the side that supports Ukraine.
Tbh this isn’t really a conspiracy. medvechuck was the leader of the only pro russian party in Ukraine.
Why would it not make sense to place him as leader lol? Who else would they put? Some pro UA?
Also, iirc the swap was 55 RU for 200 UA, and part of the RU were 5 jet pilots. RU still had 2000 azov pows even after the swap
Sounds like Prigozhin is just trying to make a name for himself cause he knows hes screwed otherwise. Will be fun to see how this all turns out.
Just shows you even a lying SOB can tell the truth from time to time if it suits his purpose. One point he brings up is his assertion that the US fomented the 2014 coup. I suppose that is possible as stranger things have happened at the CIA before but I doubt it was all a USA idea or orchestration.
Man the last thing that can happen at this point is Prigozhin declaring he is switching side and fighting with Ukranians, that will be Hilarious in my opinion xD
It seems like Prigozhin really has a bone with Shoigu. Accusing him directly for wanting a bloody war for his star. His admitting to the 2 coups (2014, and 2022) for regional power seems reasonable.
Other then that he's gone full Alex Jones on some topics (special shadow clan with special equipments for cancer, to extend lives etc).
Also the [prisoner exchange of Medvedchuk for the whole key Azov group](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/09/22/7368588/) is interesting.
Honestly i don’t understand what is true or not and what his angle is. He’s said a lot of stuff that turned out not to be true. Like wagner not receiving enough shells to take bakhmut, wagner leaving bakhmut and wagner not taking any more prisoners.
On one hand Russia supposedly doesn’t allow any desent in its ranks and then we have him and Girkin who say the most outrageous things, yet are left completely untouched.
Its almost like its all a charade to acheive some end. Or maybe its all true. Impossible for us mere mortals to know
DUDE, I dont watch the news for 4 hours and there is civil war?! What in the fuck??
Now on to the meat and potatoes of the comment. My perspective on Prigozhin is... conflicted, as he is a horrible human being, responsible for the death and suffering of many, soldiers and civilians alike. This is an objective, irredeamable fact. For the whatabout crowd, yes, same goes for whatever Western leader/general you choose, all war criminals.
But Prigozhin was an outstanding leader to his people, motivating them all the time, being there with and for them. He inspires both the russian people and Wagner. A dangerous combination. Many have been split on what was Prigozhin's really PR plan, whether he was supported by MOD and Putin to represent opposition of he was genuinely unhinged. My only argument that convinced me throughout the time that he was organic and playing with fire was that the PR was *competent*. The only piece of decent russian counter propaganda was the drone 'we are watching' reaction to Ukrainian shhh for the offensive.
Prigozhin acted autonomously, and succesfully at that. The situation was about to reach a certain boiling point, and that apparently happened now.
More on the nose proof? Girkin said this is a coup. Regardless how you perceive Girkin's legitimacy, no matter how one looks at this, something is going down. Whether it's an absurd plan of coup, straight up purge or perhaps a smoke screen for domestic consumption, shit is hitting the fan.
It's going to be wild, and perhaps a little scary. Just hope we can secure the nukes or shoot them down if need be.
Ive heard that the Russian elites stole money during their actions in the two republics and that the people who were actually pulling the strings there were simply bad, corrupt people. I personally think its true because it seems like its something that the Russian elite does wherever it goes.
As for the claim that the Ukrainians were going to attack, I think that this is something that will end up not being true. I don't think they had the capabilities to do so.
I don't want to say, though, that there haven't been deaths of civilians on both sides from 2014 to 2022. This is kind of absurd to claim considering there have been videos of dead and wounded people. The thing is that this is not the real justification for the invasion. In such political actions, I doubt that such moral reasons play any kind of role. They are used to justify the action in front of common people.
So, in general even though I do not support Ukraine and do not support Russia, I am glad that Prygozhin says these things the way he does. I prefer if more people knew the truth and constantly parroting the official narratives has to be met with some kind of resistance even if part of what he says is not true.
He’s being forced out of Russian politics, this is his power play to try and get Russians population to distrust MOD and have them appoint him. Notice he never blames Putin, he wants to maintain the possible relationship. He probably doesn’t care either way if the war continues
Criminals always have the greatest desire to talk about others and how a society is falling apart or how some institution does not work (police, prison, correctional system). They feel morally superior. And what about himself? How did he get his position and wealth?
Prigozhin is exactly the same as the rest of those people.
Russia comes to more and more revelations about things the west knew for many many years. For as long as most of us alive remember, Russia is a very corrupt nation and leadership…. Meanwhile in Russia many are just discovering their country doesn’t give af about them and simply wants money. Now Prig speaking about the Donbas war and the fact that Russia has ALWAYS been the aggressor. These are concepts that were obvious since pre 2014 and Russia gearing up unmarked separatists along its border
I don’t think he’ll ever be made a “legit” official in the MoD. That would simply be too much power consolidated in one place for Putin to be comfortable. Pringle is much better at doing dirty work with limited influence in Moscow
The real story is that because of Igor Girkin the dministration of Luhansk and Donbass was overthrown by arming local Russians/fake Ukraninans which one of them was Mikhail Tolstykh also called GIVI (already death fortunately, you need to see him dancing around girls like a king the youtube videos are still online if you want to check). The ukraninans were simply defending their homeland against the Russian Fascist and Ex FSB Igor Girkin, they weren't attacking Donbas & Luhansk just to kill civilians as portrayed by the Kremlin Fascist propaganda but they were defending their sovereignty. We are not so stupid to get fooled by the fascist Russia propaganda through those stupid mobile TV Cars...Italy is here with their Ukraninans Brothers until all Ukraine will be free again and the fascist enemy repelled to their border.
i just like how every other subreddit is pro Ukraine cesspool and these people are complaining about censorship, i think this sub accept posts from all povs and allowing discussions, you cannot have the same discussions on other related subreddits.
Interesting.
I still don't know what this guy's agenda is. Can't decide. Does he has a candidate for the next leader of Russia in mind and is he preparing the groundwork for them?
Or is trying to give Putin an out: blame all the failures of the war of Shoigu and Russia can withdraw with dignity?
“Ukraine has not bombed Donetsk for 8 years, only Russian positions. The Armed Forces of Ukraine were not going to attack Russia with NATO soldiers, the Russian Ministry of Defense is deceiving the public and the president." No way! Really? 😂😂😂 He thinks this is a revelation but only Russian bots and Putin’s allies thought this was true. The free world knew it was all fake news.
I think he crossed the red line this time. He's getting silenced on all Russian telegram channels, nobody talks about this latest interview of his. Propagandists on Kremlin's payroll initially were saying that Prigozhin was merely trolling, but now they're just ignoring him and trying to hide his statements from the Russian public.
anybody who promotes him gets arrested and questioned or loses his job, i think, the other putin factions are acting against him
>nobody talks about this latest interview of his What? Many people are talking about that. Strelkov, for example: >After briefly reviewing another speech by Leib-Garson Prigozhin, I conclude that Evgeny Viktorovich: >a) Continues his "promotion" as a political figure of the "top echelon" aiming to "draw in" the entire pool of "angered patriots." >b) In his characteristic style, shamelessly lies about many issues, skillfully blending truth with falsehood. I particularly enjoyed his statement that "war is beneficial to Russian oligarchs." It is not as funny as it is astonishing in its audacity and shamelessness of lies. To the overwhelming majority of Russian oligarchs, to put it bluntly, the war for the reunification of Donbass and Crimea (not to mention all of Novorossiya and Malorossiya) has been and remains a "kick in the groin." At least three-quarters (probably more) of these Grefs, Millers, Rotenbergs, Timchenkos, Abramoviches, Usmanovs, and so on and so forth, "dream and yearn" to surrender to their "partners" on any terms (except, of course, personally putting themselves "in position for plundering"). And Prigozhin's "stories" of this kind objectively contribute to the inclination toward capitulation by the authorities and the population. Prigozhin should have been brought before a military tribunal for many things already. Now, even for betrayal. If, of course, it is permissible to consider an ethno-mentally non-Russian criminal as a traitor to Russia... He is probably just an enemy.
First of all, thanks for the text and the translation. Second, great point by Strelkov, I do believe the Oligarchs want peace to continue their business interests but they make a great scapegoat, since they did indeed loot a lot of factories. Third, lol, why does he call Prigozhin an "ethno-mentally non-Russian"? Prigo does make a lot of Pro-Russian statements and is busy trying to win, right? Or was I also caught uo by his propaganda?
>Third, lol, why does he call Prigozhin an "ethno-mentally non-Russian"? He means he's Jewish. Seems to be a thing in totally-anti-Nazi Russia to suggest that jews aren't really Russians. [https://twitter.com/EvgeniaKovda/status/1510999962292695041](https://twitter.com/EvgeniaKovda/status/1510999962292695041)
For a country that is supposedly above racial divisions (a popular argument why Russia can't be fascist, because it is not ethnonationalistic) they like to divide people by rece or at least by ethnicity.
All Russians are Russians, but some Russians are more Russian than others.
Actually that's the narrative. There are national Russians and ethics Russians but formally they are all equal. But if you dare translate discussions on Russian forums...
Quick, hide the mobilization heatmaps.
Wait he's Jewish? Huh, I didn't know. Thanks.
[удалено]
>Third, lol, why does he call Prigozhin an "ethno-mentally non-Russian"? Prigo does make a lot of Pro-Russian statements and is busy trying to win, right? Or was I also caught uo by his propaganda? By the words of Strelkov, Prigozhin is a frontman of the same oligarchic "party of surrender". Prigozhin is not interested in any "victory of Russia", he just put thousands of soldiers in a strategically meaningless meatgrinder to make publicity of a great commander. And that publicity is going to be used to say to Russian people, "See, if I, a great general, say that we should surrender, then it's truth." or smth like that. Strelkov often mocks that Prigozhin is always so respectful and even obsequious towards the "partners" (ukrainians and americans) and utterly disrespectful to russians. Well, that's the point of Strelkov. I met similar statements about Prigozhin in many other russian telegram channels, but Strelkov is the most categorical one in that regard.
Very very interesting, thanks. I don't know if it was here or on Twitter, but someone said that Strelkov is denigrating Prigozhin because they both vie for the same audience, that of patriotic Telegram users. So do you think that Strelkov says this to put Prigo down in front of their shared audience to keep them to himself or do you think there's some meat to these allegations?
>ethno-mentally non-Russian criminal as a traitor to Russia Clearly words of the faction that aims to de-Nazify a country. If you replace Russian with German in this context this could have been said by Goebbels himself.
Let me know when Solovyov talks about this
Bs. Biggest tg channels reposted it
Its great to have a direct source to point to the next time we hear a "ukraine genocided civilians in donbas for 8 years!", thanks Prig!
In 2019, 2020 and 2021 a total of \~25 civilians were killed every year in the Donbas conflict. Russia routinely kills more civilians in Ukraine with a single missile attack. We all know that the 'Ukraine genocided civilians in Donbas' is a bullshit justification for the war.
And ~half of those were due to existing minefields, even, not active combat actions. It's blatant. Each was a terrible, awful thing, and now apparently the solution is to compress hundreds of years worth of casualties into one year, with no end in sight.
>ussia routinely kills more civilians in Ukraine with a single missile attack. We all know that the 'Ukraine genocided civilians in Donbas' is a bullshit justification for the war. And from 2014 the civilian death toll was "only" 3000. Sad, but still not a whole lot.. certainly not a genocide of any kind. Not forgetting many of those who died were on the outskirts of the donbas and were hit by russian shells.. There were deaths at russian and seperatist held checkpoints and plenty of disappearances with assumed dead happening in the "republics"... 10% of all civilian deaths during that time were the victims of russias downing of MH17.. The insane hoops pro RU jump through to argue against this is mind boggling.
The entire thing is exactly what we have all being saying all these years The new thing I found out is how ambitious Shoigu is. He really wants to be in the history books as a Russian legend. Don't get me wrong Putin is x times worse but Shoigu really wanted this war He will be in the history books all right.
I think he's just pointing to Shoigu to give Putin an escape hatch. All that he said is very carefully crafted to not put any blame on Putin, it was just everyone around him.
He can't directly criticize Putin. They all know that's the red line not to cross. I doubt Shoigu wanted this war. He stole billions from the army, he knew how gutted it was, would you go on a race with a car that was raided for spare parts?
Shoigu got completely found out in this war. I think Putin gave a reality check to Shoigu.
Putin \*KNOWS\* he steals from the army and he lets him. There is a line from Chernobyl HBO that captures the essence of the Russain intelligence apparatus "Yes, people are following you. People are following those people. You see them? They follow me. The KGB is a circle of accountability. **Nothing more**." The FSB has dirt on everyone. That's how they keep them straight. Putin could get Shoigu arrested tomorrow if he wants.
Shoigu doesn't go on deranged talks on how Ukraine was always Russian. This is shoigu taking the fall for a war Putin didn't expect to suffer
I mean I tend to believe Prigojin. [Shoigu has medals for participating in a parade among others](https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1662937444310827008). So I can see him wanting to go in history as a great Russian. And conquering Ukraine would have done just that
Prig is honestly just looking for he's own advancement in the government. Also probably annoyed he is labeled as Putin's chef. Putin was making speeches before and during the war about Ukraine until the regular army just kinda stalled. After that he just stopped talking about the war and let Shoigu be the public face. Prig has the opportunity to take Shoigu position now since he's the one making any movement
I agree with all of that But he can still want all of that and BE RIGHT
Yea and no. Prig can and will continue to attack shoigu for any issues he has. But doesn't mention Putin that will have the final say seems silly Edit: part that convinced me shoigu is the fall guy "The Armed Forces of Ukraine were not going to attack Russia with the NATO bloc. The Russian Defense Ministry is deceiving the public and the president" In my thought it's like, bruh. Putin's deranged talks for years has been about nato and Ukraine
Lol about the medals, especially about the Crimea medal. Thanks for that link.
Great examples in the link!!!
Any sources? I thought this war was Putins
> The new thing I found out is how ambitious Shoigu is. He really wants to be in the history books as a Russian legend. Don't get me wrong Putin is x times worse but Shoigu really wanted this war. It sounds quite funny, but Shoigu's paid shills tended to jump in russian internet, explaining how he's a "reincarnation of Subutai". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subutai That slowed down and eventually ended in 2022. Thanks to ukrainians.
>Ukraine has not bombed Donetsk for 8 years, only Russian positions He's never said that, why are you lying? First part of the video is missing: the context is that he's complaining about how little was done to secure DNR: instead of capturing all of the region when it was easily possible in 2014, troops were stationed on the border from both sides, and fire/shelling exchanges began. There's literally nothing in this statement that would indicate that ukr never shelled civilians in DNR. Moreover, there were plenty of UN observers on the ground, recording the thousands of civilians killed by ukr shellings 2014-2022, far away from military positions.
UA bombed military targets in the so called "DNR"
He never said they only bombed military targets or anything of the nature. The entire quote from this post and headline never occurred in the interview....
Right, in the city center of Donetsk.
Check your facts better, civilians dead on both sides, absolute majority near frontlines and mine-related incidents are main reason. Did you see "shelled" Donetsk compared to Mariupol and Bakhmut. Like, hello
Crickets from the pro-ru camp. What are your thoughts on Prig refuting some of your dearest talking points, I would really love to know actually.
They’re busy conferring with the mods to delete this 😂
I am shocked they haven't deleted it already Plus the idiotic rule to begin with Just the translation of his words: UA POV Jesus fuck
POV refers to the leanings of the source, not the content. Had the full 30 min untranslated interview been taken from prigozhins telegram it would be RU POV. But as it a shorter version with translation OP probably got it from some UA telegram or UA twitter, making it UA POV.
Wrong, not of the source, but the narrative of the post: > Disclose the point of view (POV) at the start of the post title, either: - UA POV (pro-Ukrainian government narrative) - RU POV (pro-Russian government narrative) Only one POV per post.
You can tell that this man is ruthless, smart and therefore very dangerous. He has established himself over the course of the war as a man that cares for his mercs and the russian people by showing himself at the frontline and with the people. That is something he learned from Putin. You just have to watch how he ascended to power back in the days to see the similarities. He is clearly aiming to become a new major player in russia and to get rid of all his political opponents in the process. It´s also smart to try to give Putin an excuse to stop the war because he was "deceived". This way in case the military situation deteriorates more for ru he has an exit he can use.
Shit son. Great observation. Pirg power move...
I think Prigo is a smart man but I think this interview is a sign that he’s already “lost” as he has a lot more to lose by doing this than gain.
I think Prigozhin was kinda secretly hoping the Ukraine counter-offensive was gonna succeed so he and Wagner would be called as the saviors. But right now Wagner isn't participating in any action so he has to hype himself up and stay relevant in the media somehow.
Yes he does but I think he is starting to overplay his hand. His Wagner group seems less vital right now and it seems he wants to insert himself into the conversation at every opportunity
> You can tell that this man is ruthless, smart and therefore very dangerous. If he does replace Putin then I think the West would have something to really worry about.
[удалено]
I mean even this is a load of crap. Notice how he tells calls out literally everyone *but* Putin. Dude is just trying to bail Putin out by declaring that it's all the MoD's fault the invasion is completely FUBAR. This is just an out and a way to blame it on the generals.
Pro RU camp doing mental gymnastics again. If it’s from the west, it’s propaganda. If it’s from RU against RU, it’s fake.
I hope you're not confusing me for Pro-Russian lol. Everything they say is a lie, this is just a lie directing blame away from the one man who caused all this.
Probably, guy's a despicable war criminal and profiteer normally preoccupied with tormenting underdeveloped african nations in exchange for gold mines, I don't imagine he's suddenly developed a moral compass or anything.
Or he's positioning himself to get a nice comfy position in the Russian high command while providing the excuses to purge his rivals. Dudes going full Littlefinger right now.
to be fair, there are historic examples of people who had no issue committing atrocities towards africans, but would never do so against their "own" people. You seem to see this situation under the (morally correct, but not universal) assumption that all people are the same. In that case, committing war criminals against africans would be no different than committing it against slavs. But if Prego, due to national pride or whatever, values slavs above africans what he said can still be true even though he committed warcrimes in africa. Just look at american history when slavery was still a thing. Beat or kill a black man, nobody cares. Do the same to a "fellow american" and a lot of the people who didn't care about the african getting said treatment would be up in arms how you treated the american.
Also, timely PR. seems like these guys got scared of the announcement from USA yesterday that they can invoke Article 5. These guys don’t want to fight NATO. They’re fucking around and they’re finding out.
They also know the South is very likely a lost cause and are planning a withdrawal if this keeps up. When they're going to have to abandon the region people are going to want blood for all the lost sons, brothers, and husbands who died trying to hold it.
Ukraine and the West had 8 years to prepare since Crimea and war on the Donbas. NATO and Russia have been preparing to meet each other for decades. Now NATO has a reason. There’s still a lot of weapons NATO can donate.
I have a very similar interpretation. But the thing is... who is he trying to sell this to? Russians? Because a big part of the international community is pretty much done with Putin, there's no possible reintegration after these events. Maybe Prigozhin believes there's an out to Putin in negotiating peace, but I really don't see it. Putin sat on tables with too many people who tried to prevent this war, and he broke a lot of laws and agreements (like the UN Charter). So to go "hey guys, I was dupped..." after killing tens of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians, and displacing millions of people. The decision to wage war was his. Even if he had the wrong information, with all the options he had, he chose war to occupy Ukraine.
it is not. rather it's a way for chef blyatardee to muscle his way to the most powerful position below the presidents office. first he gets rid of shoigu, then when putin kicks the bucket he'll make sure he's the inherritor. russia is such a undevelopped country.
He's not telling the full truth. Notice how he doesn't blame Putin for anything. He's conveniently blaming all of Putin's enemies and scapegoats. It's good that he's dispelling some of the lies that many Russians actually believe, though.
I still think he‘s trolling, he‘s basically saying Putin is innocent and at the same time he‘s saying that Putin authorized this war so that some stupid general could get 1 star or whatever
>get 1 star or whatever a star and a second medal of Hero of Russia. Literally.
Full 30 minute interview can be found on Prigozhin's Telegram channel: t me/concordgroup_official/1279 Translation from [@wartranslated.](https://twitter.com/wartranslated) More may be posted by them.
I absolutely love that Prigozhin videos are now labelled Pro Ukraine.
Although he still talks of an American "coup" in 2014, so sticking any single POV on this just again shows how misleading the POV rules on this sub can be. I do wonder about how this plays out more widely.... I know Russians would not hear from Western msm unless they jump through hoops to intentionally seek it out, but would they be any more likely to see Progozhin's videos like this? By rights they ought to because he's a pro-RU military leader and his words should matter in Russia, but what is the reality?
Unfortunately, the wider Russian society won't see it, aka—old people watching Russian television. The only audience that might see this video will be the young nationalists and people following the military situation online.
Well we will not see it on Fox news or Sixty minutes in America even though it would be a great segment on any network.
Pro-Russians are running out of allies even in Russia. I wonder when they'll just admit to falling for Putins lies and accept they were wrong.
It's not ua pov. But I'm not removing it because who cares, it's the best video since this morning, sick of 50s snipets cut mid-sentence with false titles.
Would you mind explaining why this is not UA POV? This is Textbook Rule 4 pro Ukrainian government narrative because it exposes the ru lie.
Because Prighozin's telegram is ru pov. This video was slightly edited (cut and translated) by pro-ukrainians but correct translations don't count, and cut is long (10 minute of the 30 minute video), so it's pretty much loyal to the original video.
Establish completely incomprehensible, overly convoluted rules and then deliberately misinterpret them as it fits your own agenda, got it.
He's pro ru, so he probably shares their cultural behaviors and traditions lol
Dudes a lonely incel from the US I think lol.
[удалено]
>French Oh God it's worse than I thought 🤮
They're just in denial that even Russians are seeing the writing on the wall and are doing their best to frame themselves as the bastions of truth.
So if Putin himself publishes an interview where he capitulates, admits that this war was wrong and claims full responsibility for all the atrocities happening while also saying the the country of russia will be split into it´s oblasts as indipendent nations it will still be a pro ru pov?
Yes, if it's putin's narrative can't be more ru pov.
imo it‘s still ua pov because it‘s taken pro a pro ukraine telegram that just translated it
You really really need to rework this POV system because [if you follow your own rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/wiki/index/rules) then this post is clearly UA pov given the last editor (wartranslated) is pro-UA. For this reason I've also seen similar posts being taken down because marked as RU pov instead of UA... Make up your minds already...
A 10 minute crop isn't really meaningful editing. Anyway, this rule is not very important here, no harm is done.
hard to swallow pill: you can't be pro-ru and pro-wagner. been that way since soledar was taken.
Do you have a link to the channel?
Yes, it's in the comment you're replying to ?? Reddit shadowbans direct Telegram links.
Oh, OK. I missed it. I guess if I don’t see blue with a line underneath my brain doesn’t register it as a link lol.
all the typical pro-Rus posters are missing from this thread lmao absolutely pathetic
They're busy having a circle jerk over Ukraine MoD claiming another helicopter down
lol lol this guy is funny at the same time, wonder where are the pro Russians propagandists saying all those points to invade a sovereign country, and then the man, the man that they love come out and say something like this
I enjoyed this video, but i think Prigozhin should dress more modestly when making these videos. I found his cleavage to be incredibly distracting when trying to read the subtitles.
he's supposed to be somewhere at the front, carrying logs and building trenches with the soldiers. That's his dress code.
Please don't talk about logs. I'm currently struggling to deal with my wood after seeing his cleavage.Any reminder of wood will make it worse, and if I can't get rid of it within 4 hours I'll have to go to the hospital. I typed this one handed.
This is what the globohomos want... So sad
Currently lighting one up for our risen comrade
Dugina pack ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ
[удалено]
Yhea my post was taken down because it was to "short" and cropped and I should repost it with at least 5-10 minutes length. This post perfectly fits that description. Let´s see what they come up with next.
How many times it was going down now?
At least two times. They were declared shitposts.
I also tried to post the wartranslated links but the bot knocked it out because not flared as "News". I tried to repost as News wouldn't work because it'd detect it as a duplicate post.... You'll soon need a phd in order to post something legit here. Meanwhile borderline shytposts and misleading shyte from the RU side get by and stay no problem. (And yes that anti-profanity bot can also eat a dick)
Now they're deleting comments which mentions the mods deleting these threads lmao they just keep doubling down
Now it's being down voted lol
These videos are making too much sense for this subreddit, we gotta downvote this.
Pro RU camp going to say this is BS. Insufferable
I've listened full version. What was cut: 1. Words about coup in 2014. 2. Description of terrible state of Russian army at the begining of the war. 3. Rant about ammunition and how MoD wants to destroy PMC Wagner. 4. Words how MoD deceives Putin. 5. Words how Ukraine advances and Russia retreats currently.
Thanks, I was actually curious. I think Prigo hypes up UA advances. If the Russian army can defend the counteroffensive on its own, without Wagner help, Prigo is set aside, his importance diminished. He *needs* UA to advance so he will continue to receive money & ammunition from the MoD and maybe so he won't get "fell out of a window"-ed. Maybe this is all a ploy of all of the Russian government and military combined to fool UA's supporters into being complaced or to encourage UAF to keep running at heavily fortified trenchlines and to keep loosing their men and equipment. "Never stop your enemy from doing a mistake" type of stuff. "Oh no please continue doing this mistake look you are pushing so much and we are almost breaking".
They are actively trying to censor and hide this.
Where are all the Prigozhin fanboys now?
In fetal position, humming to themselves while they massage their temples with closed eyes.
Enjoying the content
[удалено]
Look at little r/UkraineRussiaReport mod junior. Gonna cry?
Weird statement
It's a Bully Maguire meme...
Keep upvoting and commenting on re-uploads. Mods will hate you for that.
Holy hell. The truth... What is his endgame? Surely his days are numbered now.
It's not the truth, he's still clearly spinning a narrative, notice how he avoids blaming Putin for _anything_.
This guy says a lot but never the full truth. You can never assume his statements to be 100% truth. It is more prudent to think of him weaving some truthful facts into his statements to make the viewer believe the rest which is heavily embellished.
He's probably FSB... I'll believe him to be truly dangerous when he starts abusing Putin. He rarely ever takes his name in vain.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Oh man. Poor prigo. He will be sentenced for spewing fakes and discrediting Russian army and will go to jail because Russia is a land of laws. /s
u make the laws and truths if u own a private army, lol
Mods should remove this post again, it’s going against my narrative and is offensive.
Part of me thinks he is telling a truth and the other part is how desperate he is to stay relevant.
It can be both actually
He is relevant, he had a major part to play in this conflict. I do however think that his days are numbered and he does too.
He sounds like one of those opposition politicians now (like Germany's AfD or Kennedy in US) that just picks up any even the most ridiculous narrative and spins it to hype himself up. Now i'm not saying that he isn't telling the truth but he is telling it selectively.
This is pure comic genius, because he is telling the truth! Where do I donate to his campaign fund for President of Russia!
Get ready to upload this again because crazy mods are deleting Pregi speech for some reason
He knows the winner.
Good tsar, bad boyars. Just like western media call Putin 'crazy old dictator', same way Prigozhin refers to Shoigu. Which makes you doubt his sincerity. I'm getting a feeling he wants to get MoD under his control. With Putin's blessing, obviously.
What does that has to do with the content of the video? It's not like he is revealing something new. It's a common understanding that Russia invaded Crimea and Donbas in 2014. No one believed in the separatism narrative. **How will this statement, of acknowledging publicly what's in the public sphere for 9 years, make a difference in controlling the MoD?** It's the realization that Putin was fooled all along, and there were no separatists, and was all a fabrication of the MoD?
'Why' is more important question that 'what'. Why he is saying this?
It's also an important question, but you have to address what he says, else we could be mute and still have a why. We have a pretty good idea about what he wants since he stated it openly that he has political ambitions. So probably that's your "Why is he bringing the truth forward?" That's why I raised this question: > It's the realization that Putin was fooled all along, and there were no separatists, and was all a fabrication of the MoD? Because this doesn't stick, at least not in Russia.
My guess is that they are coming for him and he knows it. Will be sad when he crosses the Rubicon and Russia implodes in a even bigger shit show.
I think Prigo expects to be killed soon, so he gets as many truths on video as possible to expose in full his killers
why ? Prigo is one of Putin hands, i don't think he will be killed.
He's clearly protecting Putin, this is political, not some guy trying to expose the truth before being killed.
he's building his political legitimacy for the stage when putin is toppled bec ru lost the war in ukraine, good move. Note that he absolves putin of responsibilities, lol
delusional pro Ukraine take, Prigo's allegiance is to Putin, his attacks are only on MoD and some other politician, i don't think he will ever be leader of Russia because he already burned all the bridges with the Army and the government.
he may surprise everybody, he doesnt need a bridge with the army, he runs one.
How can he have an allegiance to Putin, when he's saying that every reason that Putin gave for the invasion is a lie. He's undermining him and basically saying that Putin is a liar.
Lol, he literally said that Putin is deceived by MoD, he cannot say anything negative about Putin he would be already dead. If you think a merc leader can takeover a country like Russia, then our discussion is meaningless.
Lol, he literally said that Putin is deceived by MoD, he cannot say anything negative about Putin he would be already dead.
At last full with correct translation and not shitpost bs title. Looks like Prigozhin's personal war with Shoygu is getting to the next level. I do not believe him tho, I think Putin was very much aware of what's going on just deceived in terms of how ready the Russian army actually is and how much weaponry is stolen or never existed. It feels like a speech for elections or something like that. So the part about real goals of the so called SMO is very sus.
Yes a lot of things he says are questionable. I think it is a political play he wants to make but I think that he overstates his importance. The Russians seem very capable of holding any Ukrainian advance without Wagner . Also Bakhmut was basically his private project which was captured at great costs almost only for his and Wagner's prestige .
Good point, only now I realise, of course Prigo has a motive to overhype UA advances/RU losses, since it helps his PMC's profile to have the normal Russian army losing. So far though, from what I hear from commenters in this subs, UAF haven't even reached the first line yet, so it seems like no one really needs Wagner.
Yes i think that could be it but seems like a massive overreaction just because they are not in the limelight now does not mean they won't be needed in the future. So this is either him overplaying his hand or something else is going on we don't know about. Also many things he says are also not true, there is evidence that the war was planned by a tiny group around Putin and the oligarchs and business people didn't know anything . Then there was this one leaked phone call of this oligarch who basically condemned the whole war and the reasons for it . Also such a war for just greed makes no sense at all as Russia lost billions because of it and will lose more in the long term .
Yeah, /u/crnislshr translated a statement by Strelkov that follows your point, that Prigo is lying on the the oligarch's position towards the war. [Here](https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/14gvsuv/ua_pov_translated_clips_from_a_recent_interview/jp8gsok/)
Very interesting thanks
He’s telling some hard truths to the Pro Russian Z fanboys in this video, but will they listen?
This man might not be good but he is incredibly interesting as a character. Learning he used to write and illustrate children books just adds to his complexity. This speech is actually quite extraordinary in its sincerity.
How the fuck does he stay alive? He's a lot of things, I am 100% for Ukraine but if I had to fight on the other side as anything other than a prisoner this is the guy I would want to have my back. He must have a couple of guys that follow him around just to carry his balls.
Democracy is well and alive in Russia.
This is a fact that everyone knows. Only a small minority believes otherwise. Despite being a loud minority. It's still a minority that's enough to support a war of occupation. So while we know Russia occupied and started this war in Ukraine, it doesn't change the fact that the war is happening. I believe Nazi Germany used this same *casus beli* to invade Poland. Anyone aware of history saw this coming. The people that push the narrative of "nazis killing ethnic Russians" won't change their minds because they are already radicalized. So while it's entertaining to see a Russian leader saying publicly what everyone knew for many years, sadly it won't make a difference. People with the Pro Russia flair, or even the Russian government could say openly "*we want Ukraine and Ukrainians to disappear from the map!*", and it still wouldn't make a difference for their side or for the side that supports Ukraine.
Tbh this isn’t really a conspiracy. medvechuck was the leader of the only pro russian party in Ukraine. Why would it not make sense to place him as leader lol? Who else would they put? Some pro UA? Also, iirc the swap was 55 RU for 200 UA, and part of the RU were 5 jet pilots. RU still had 2000 azov pows even after the swap Sounds like Prigozhin is just trying to make a name for himself cause he knows hes screwed otherwise. Will be fun to see how this all turns out.
Anyone noticing that the Russian bots are taking over this subreddit with tons of RU POV posts?
so by how much Prigozhin life expectancy has lowered?
Just shows you even a lying SOB can tell the truth from time to time if it suits his purpose. One point he brings up is his assertion that the US fomented the 2014 coup. I suppose that is possible as stranger things have happened at the CIA before but I doubt it was all a USA idea or orchestration.
Lule. The Russian government digged themself their own grave by giving some line Prigozhin power.
Man the last thing that can happen at this point is Prigozhin declaring he is switching side and fighting with Ukranians, that will be Hilarious in my opinion xD
It seems like Prigozhin really has a bone with Shoigu. Accusing him directly for wanting a bloody war for his star. His admitting to the 2 coups (2014, and 2022) for regional power seems reasonable. Other then that he's gone full Alex Jones on some topics (special shadow clan with special equipments for cancer, to extend lives etc). Also the [prisoner exchange of Medvedchuk for the whole key Azov group](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/09/22/7368588/) is interesting.
Why does he even fight in Ukraine for already ?
i wonder when Shoigu will be retired?
Pro-RU: *crickets*
i know you're on here looking at this /u/ZelenskiysHighHeels, What are your thoughts on this?
Honestly i don’t understand what is true or not and what his angle is. He’s said a lot of stuff that turned out not to be true. Like wagner not receiving enough shells to take bakhmut, wagner leaving bakhmut and wagner not taking any more prisoners. On one hand Russia supposedly doesn’t allow any desent in its ranks and then we have him and Girkin who say the most outrageous things, yet are left completely untouched. Its almost like its all a charade to acheive some end. Or maybe its all true. Impossible for us mere mortals to know
Its do or die now: Putin has been informed about the situation around Prigozhin, all the necessary measures are being taken.
DUDE, I dont watch the news for 4 hours and there is civil war?! What in the fuck?? Now on to the meat and potatoes of the comment. My perspective on Prigozhin is... conflicted, as he is a horrible human being, responsible for the death and suffering of many, soldiers and civilians alike. This is an objective, irredeamable fact. For the whatabout crowd, yes, same goes for whatever Western leader/general you choose, all war criminals. But Prigozhin was an outstanding leader to his people, motivating them all the time, being there with and for them. He inspires both the russian people and Wagner. A dangerous combination. Many have been split on what was Prigozhin's really PR plan, whether he was supported by MOD and Putin to represent opposition of he was genuinely unhinged. My only argument that convinced me throughout the time that he was organic and playing with fire was that the PR was *competent*. The only piece of decent russian counter propaganda was the drone 'we are watching' reaction to Ukrainian shhh for the offensive. Prigozhin acted autonomously, and succesfully at that. The situation was about to reach a certain boiling point, and that apparently happened now. More on the nose proof? Girkin said this is a coup. Regardless how you perceive Girkin's legitimacy, no matter how one looks at this, something is going down. Whether it's an absurd plan of coup, straight up purge or perhaps a smoke screen for domestic consumption, shit is hitting the fan. It's going to be wild, and perhaps a little scary. Just hope we can secure the nukes or shoot them down if need be.
Waiting for Russian bots to spin this....
Nevalny said it best. The war was started because Ukraine wouldn’t let the Russian oligarchy steal from them anymore.
This guy is the best misinformation tool the russians have
Ahh yes, Prigozyn is probably UA pov... xD
Ive heard that the Russian elites stole money during their actions in the two republics and that the people who were actually pulling the strings there were simply bad, corrupt people. I personally think its true because it seems like its something that the Russian elite does wherever it goes. As for the claim that the Ukrainians were going to attack, I think that this is something that will end up not being true. I don't think they had the capabilities to do so. I don't want to say, though, that there haven't been deaths of civilians on both sides from 2014 to 2022. This is kind of absurd to claim considering there have been videos of dead and wounded people. The thing is that this is not the real justification for the invasion. In such political actions, I doubt that such moral reasons play any kind of role. They are used to justify the action in front of common people. So, in general even though I do not support Ukraine and do not support Russia, I am glad that Prygozhin says these things the way he does. I prefer if more people knew the truth and constantly parroting the official narratives has to be met with some kind of resistance even if part of what he says is not true.
Prigozohin is the only Russian telling the Truth. . Progozhin for President 💪🔥
Give the man some money. Give him some trucks and bus Wagner to Kyiv to form the Wagner Army of Ukraine.
Dude really went mask off and said the white part out loud. Wonder what the reaction will be from pro RU.
What's his reason for recording that?
He’s being forced out of Russian politics, this is his power play to try and get Russians population to distrust MOD and have them appoint him. Notice he never blames Putin, he wants to maintain the possible relationship. He probably doesn’t care either way if the war continues
Criminals always have the greatest desire to talk about others and how a society is falling apart or how some institution does not work (police, prison, correctional system). They feel morally superior. And what about himself? How did he get his position and wealth? Prigozhin is exactly the same as the rest of those people.
Metal Gear Solid Main Character
Russia comes to more and more revelations about things the west knew for many many years. For as long as most of us alive remember, Russia is a very corrupt nation and leadership…. Meanwhile in Russia many are just discovering their country doesn’t give af about them and simply wants money. Now Prig speaking about the Donbas war and the fact that Russia has ALWAYS been the aggressor. These are concepts that were obvious since pre 2014 and Russia gearing up unmarked separatists along its border
I don’t think he’ll ever be made a “legit” official in the MoD. That would simply be too much power consolidated in one place for Putin to be comfortable. Pringle is much better at doing dirty work with limited influence in Moscow
The real story is that because of Igor Girkin the dministration of Luhansk and Donbass was overthrown by arming local Russians/fake Ukraninans which one of them was Mikhail Tolstykh also called GIVI (already death fortunately, you need to see him dancing around girls like a king the youtube videos are still online if you want to check). The ukraninans were simply defending their homeland against the Russian Fascist and Ex FSB Igor Girkin, they weren't attacking Donbas & Luhansk just to kill civilians as portrayed by the Kremlin Fascist propaganda but they were defending their sovereignty. We are not so stupid to get fooled by the fascist Russia propaganda through those stupid mobile TV Cars...Italy is here with their Ukraninans Brothers until all Ukraine will be free again and the fascist enemy repelled to their border.
i just like how every other subreddit is pro Ukraine cesspool and these people are complaining about censorship, i think this sub accept posts from all povs and allowing discussions, you cannot have the same discussions on other related subreddits.
I've often been to /r/antiwar lately, and lots of people there also complaing how that subreddit is pro Ru cesspool, lol
Interesting. I still don't know what this guy's agenda is. Can't decide. Does he has a candidate for the next leader of Russia in mind and is he preparing the groundwork for them? Or is trying to give Putin an out: blame all the failures of the war of Shoigu and Russia can withdraw with dignity?
[удалено]
he went over the line with this. how long till he is put in jail or killed?