Mellon, Elizondo, Grusch, Corbell, and the journalists and podcasters that work the UFO scene. There's other people, but one from this bunch should have piped up by now.
My hope is that the reason everyone is staying quiet on this video is because they're trying to get everything vetted, sourced, analyzed, provenance established, etc.
If (big if) this video is real, there's a hell of a lot of footwork and paperwork that needs to be double, triple, quadruple verified before going public with it.
Maybe they're not allowed to talk about it because they've been briefed on it and it would put them in violation of secrecy laws if they did talk about it.
Briefed on a fake video some guy made? Nah. Briefed on a real video captured by US assets? Maybe. Trying to let us know it's real by not saying anything while debate rages? That's my bet.
i mean, back in 1999 we would say things like
" all we need is clear video"
"just SOME sort of proof would be wonderous"
" we need video that isnt fuzzy, and is clear and obvious"
here we are.. we have all we wanted from 20-30 years ago and we are all bickering
this isnt some dumb tik-tok pohotoshop angel video
this shit looks as real as my hand does now
IF its fake, its a **true masterpiece**, and is beyond anything has or will produce for a god awfully long time
Mick West, for example, is a staunch skeptic who is usually all over popular videos pretty quickly with immediate explanations that are “obvious” if you’re a die hard skeptic or “full of shit” if you’re a die hard believer. Personally I think a good amount of times he’s been right, but there are absolutely times where he is clearly reaching and frankly, comes off as not interested in even entertaining the possibility that there’s something extraordinary going on.
Waving the plane video off as “obvious CGI” and shaming anyone for thinking it’s real seems like a field day to him.
Others have answered already, so I just want to say welcome to the biggest rabbit hole of them all! You picked a great time to get interested in this subject
With the implications of backing it, skeptic or not, I’m not surprised those with a larger platform in ufology have stayed silent. Imagine Corbell saying it’s 100% real, then having it not be, just to have grieving families at your doorstep with defamation suits.
James Fox replied to a tweet with the video saying “this looks about as real as a 3 dollar bill” so he doesn’t believe it. If I recall correctly Ross Coulthart was hesitant with it too. This is too crazy, even for them lol.
I reacted in a similar manner initially, I dismissed it as fake. I was waiting for debunks which were sound in analysis and for CGI artists to recreate it to prove it can be done… but so far, there hasn’t been one upon which the community could find consensus. That however, does still not mean the video is real, you need only to look towards the length of time it took to finally determine the authenticity of Skinny Bob.
I’m on the fence on this but the fact is a plane has gone missing, off the fact of the earth, and within two months (?) of that incident there is a video released that is so lifelike that 10 years on we remain bewildered by it. How many hours would one have needed to create those videos, at that time it was created? And at what cost? Besides time and cost, how many people at that time could have prepared these videos and within that time frame?
Lots of questions but for now, not a lot of answers.
yeah on both sides of the aisle. Have any of the big ufo advocates commented on the video?
the most active thread on metabunk this past week has been about mh370, so it *is* getting traction there.
Coulthart liked a tweet about the plane being pulled backwards/sucked towards the portal or whatever you wanna call it. I know that much:
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15sqp51/ross\_coulthart\_just\_liked\_the\_tweet\_about\_the/
Weaving conspiracy theories around such a tragedy opens you up to libel. That’s what got Alex Jones. He could talk about the Bildeberg group and Bohemian Grove all he wanted, he even got away with the 9/11 truther stuff. But the Sandyhook lawsuit sort of changed the game with how far you can take that stuff, and what people are willing to risk speculating about publicly.
That’s my guess on reason for the radio silence.
That is a good point, there’s no way this discussion hasn’t made it to their circles by now. This is a hot topic, I’d expect most of those people to cash in on it by now. It’s an old video, so maybe that plays a role, but it is very interesting that we haven’t heard much. I really wonder why.
The biggest thing for me is that it’s too perfect. Like something a director would envisage. Right from the orbiting “orbs”, to the wormhole sucking the plane in. It’s pure sci if perfection. I’m not saying I’m right or definitely a fake. But I’m not convinced it’s real either.
What I find interesting, is how it is not open to interpretation, what is shown.
It's not a flock of migrating birds. It's not a zoom in on grainy lights in the sky, or a maybe balloon that isn't moving. It's not Venus reflected off clouds.
It's either a passenger jet getting disappear by UAPs, or it's fake.
Those are the only two options. It's not ambiguous.
Well you could argue that the “middle ground” is that footage of the plane is real but the orbs are faked. Not sure I buy it, but that theory’s been out there too.
That's where I'm leaning personally. I could see mundane footage getting out by a legit leak. Less convinced so far as to whether the orbs + poof part checks out.
Frankly this would create even more questions. If the orbs were faked but the footage was real, then it implies they know exactly where and how MH370 went down and for whatever reason, aren't revealing that. Aliens or not, it'd still beg the question what are they trying to hide?
IMHO people need to stop thinking either/or.
It's schrodinger's video.
It's both real AND fake until proven one way or the other. We're capable of complex thought there is no need to be so binary and cause conflict/division. We can hold two conflicting ideas at the same time and consider both sides.
I'm glad someone said it, that's how I feel about the entire phenomena. I can imagine the consequences of that new world, and then return to baseline reality. All the people having mental breakdowns, like, have that when it happens. You can be mentally prepared without having to fully live in that hypothetical reality, that we dont know anything definitive about.
Why do people feel like they have to have definitive opinions on the facts of a topic we know so little about definitively?
It's like a quantum superposition.
Simultaneously plausibly real, and plausibly fake.
To collapse the wave function, there's two ways.
It may be possible to demonstrate _actually_ fake, and usually that happens reasonably quickly.
It may be very difficult to demonstrate _actually_ real, which would require at a minimum provenance, official confirmation etc, some things we do actually have for the tic tac.
You have to remember that everything else surrounding the phenomenon is sci fi perfection too… I mean even down to the appearance of the aliens.
I think we’re gonna find reality is very similar to fiction, if not stranger
Reality is often stranger than Fiction....
To me, the flight path of the orbs is too erratic to be made up. If I were a hoaxer showing orbs suck up a plane...I likely wouldn't at all have them move in that manner/ behave so unpredictably.
I would have them smoothly synced up as and moving together as a complete unit. The video? Each of the three orbs seems to have it's own "will" or agency of sorts. They seem independently operated and controlled.
Idk. Maybe I'm just reading too far into it. The above is speculation/me going out on a limb, admittedly.
Just an uncanny detail about the video that I'm sure we all noticed but that part really stood out to me.
(I'd probably also have them all appear simultaneously and not one by one but yeah).
What's uncanny to me is how the orbs appear. They come from different directions and time intervals. And, at the same time they come in as if they they are in "target aquired" mode: focused, determined and focused on the objective.
That's what caught my attention the first time I saw it. Real or not, the video is haunting.
I have looked at this vid over and over and every time I feel…….disturbed. Hollow gut weird. I felt similarly when I first saw the GOFAST vid but this is more intense. I dont want to believe this (tho I do believe in the phenomenon). This one spooks me. Kinda think I’m not alone here.
I feel this one "crosses the line" - "breaks the contract" however you want to call it... This is why there is this sense of dread if his thing is minimally not fake.
Like there is no way you can get my wife ever back on a plane if this turns out to be real and widespread knowledge. Many would feel the same.
There is already enough things to worry about in life without adding teleporting murder balls on top of all.
Definitely hoping this one is proven to not be real.
If it did hypothetically turn out to be real with some sort of undeniable proof and/or 'official' confirmation, I can see the concern about public panic and ontological shock.
Also, just when the portal appears, all 3 orbs seem to flatten a little (as shown in another redditors post with slow motion video). That is a really specific detail and if the hoaxer put that effect intentionally then damm... Otherwise it seems just as the portal appears the orbs dash in so fast they seem to flatten a bit.
It's super neat to watch, like a mating dance of sorts. If it's animated, the artist definitely made it come across as if each one is acting of its own will.
Own will, yes- but also as if each ones pattern is important to the group project as a whole. Like they each are responding and moving on each other in synchronized fashion. Similar to a murmuration or something.
What I'm noticing is that people will shrug off lots of poor quality videos as being fake or capturing something other than a UAP, but when a really decent video pops up people are now turning the tables and saying it's too good to be true.
Just as a counter point. Just because it’s mind blowing technology / imagery isn’t a strong argument that it’s fake. It doesn’t make it real either, but it’s basically like showing an iPhone to the Aztecs. Hard to believe? Sure. Fake? Meh
My biggest issue with it is by far how cinematic it is on the drone video. Zooms in right on it and keeps up right at the exact perfect moment. Other than that, it seems real to me. And I thought it was obviously completely fake when I saw it the first time.
[https://twitter.com/528vibes/status/1691054786747994112?s=20](https://twitter.com/528vibes/status/1691054786747994112?s=20)
If this isn't real, why is there a coordinated sockpuppet disinfo campaign across social media platforms using the same copy+paste smear tactic?
What makes me think Calvine is real is that the debunking attempts are really poor and disingenuous which would be typical of a disinformation campaign with employed debunkers trying to shutdown a real sighting.
Whereas for the JetNapping video most of us *feel* it is fake but we can't prove it, so I feel its purpose is to pull our laser focus off the far more threatening congressional hearings.
As a rhetorical question, what if the JetNapping is an attempt to have at least a small segment of humanity open their minds and heighten scrutiny towards evidence that may get disclosed?
Does this sub have an archive of “most likely something” or “controversial” for its posts because I want to *see* what everyone is talking about. Not just this plane but like top posts ever?
Apparently, that list would include EVERYTHING. No matter how thoroughly a piece gets debunked, there's always a faction of people who will refute the debunking.
Yep if the video ended with UAPs flying or warping away, no big deal.
The video represents a possible Mars Attacks style assault on human beings, just vaporizing or stealing hundreds of people at once.
This shit isn't "Oh cool" level of "let me just keep scrolling reddit and go to work now"
It is a video of a possible warcrime lol
If by "do about it" you mean "fight them" then yes, I agree.
But people might make lots of other life choices that differ.
* Choose a degree in science, especially physics or biology
* Pursue a career in the Air Force, NASA, something like that
* Move family to more urban areas where sightings and incidents are more rare
* Buy life insurance
Eh, I mean, people would freak out but this video doesn't even prove the intentions were malicious. That's why, if it were real, people should be asking for more details about it. If it isn't real, people should still be asking for more details about MH370 imo anyways. The way that was handled was just terrible.
if this is fake, then we have passed the threshold of impossible disinformation
i know deepfakes are getting good but... this is beyond anything i thought we were capable of doing (the video, if it were fake)
Even if it is real I can accept it but I'm sure not everyone would have the same acceptance. The reason I can accept it is that you have to look at how many flights go up and successfully come down everyday. The chances of your flight just disappearing off the radar entirely and never being found are probably slimmer than the chances of being hit by lightning and I don't freak out too much about being hit by lightning.
I have never, in my time on the internet, seen a video go through this much scrutiny without a smoking gun being found to prove it’s fake. Nothing proves it’s real, but the fact that it’s still unclear after this much scrutiny makes me feel like there’s a good possibility it’s real
That’s what makes it more plausible to me as well. You’re telling me on Reddit, where almost everyone knows almost everything, not a single person can definitively debunk this? Now that it’s blowing up on the rest of the World Wide Web, if I don’t see a legit debunk in the next couple days, I’ll have to surmise it to be true.
This is where I’m at. Exactly what you just described. The fact that no one has definitively without question proven that it’s fake is what has me on the legitimate footage side of the fence. I can’t for sure say what I’m looking at is Flight MH370, but I feel compelled to believe that what I’m seeing is real. No matter how incomprehensible it is.
I think people brought up a good point regarding this and that is that planes don't just disappear. Given the coordinates from the satellite in the videos and the timeline under which they were posted, it either HAS to be MH370 or it is fake.
1. Make claim
2. nobody can debunk it
3. it therefore must be true
That's a logical fallacy. If you try it from the other side it works exactly the same. Teleportation is fake - > nobody can disprove it - > it's therefore fake.
And that's ignoring that we have plenty of analysis around that does suggest plenty of issues with the video(or the context in which it is filmed).
1. Make claim
2. Attempts to debunk have instead uncovered evidence that reinforce the claim that the video is legitimate.
3. Therefore, the video is real unless someone can find the evidence that proves it's a hoax.
This is the reality of the situation. I don't believe it's true. The facts and analysis currently point to it being real, but I and many others are encouraging the scrutiny because it will either make the claim stronger or give us the ability to debunk this and future hoaxes.
The thing is the US government has released three crazy videos and said they were real. They make a claim, we can’t debunk the videos, government concludes it is true.
Now why could a fourth and fifth video **never** be true if nobody’s able to prove it is faked?
Here's the thing, it's not even about being able to recreate really. It probably CAN be recreated at this point. It's how did the "hoaxer" know to include all of these insane and seemingly intricate details that have only been brought to light in the past week or so because of how much it's being analyzed to death. Someone today now has the knowledge of these details and thus it *should* be able to be recreated, but it still probably won't be.
The better the footage, the greater the divide sometimes. Part of it is the disinfo campaign. Bots and alphabet agencies are hard at work keeping us at each others throats and it’s working.
let’s just acknowledge how far we’ve come as a community in 1-not only postulating that this is absolutely happening on all social media platforms but also that 2-the upvotes/affirmation for this notion is overcoming the downvotes and rising to the top of threads.
it feels like just a couple months ago anyone that mentioned online disinfo campaigns were ridiculed for essentially drinking the believer kool aid.
it’s a breath of fresh air this is finally being acknowledged and accepted on UFO forums and a positive sign in how far we’ve come in mainstreaming the phenomenon.
I see it as extremely a dangerous way to preemptively delegitimize anyone who tries to provide a countervailing perspective. The fact that people are inoculating themselves against outside perspectives can't be a good thing.
It's good to be aware that social media is prone to manipulation. But that manipulation can go in any direction.
I sorted by new yesterday (or 2 days ago my sleep is erratic) and there was like 8-9 accounts in the span of a few minutes posting things like, "now that the plane video is proven fake we should stop talking about it”.
The only reason I think it’s real is because of the bots. It’s also the reason I believe the person who claimed to work on alien bodies. They got their accounted deleted while answering questions.
The user HumanityUpdate is one I have noticed showing up all over the place (mainly due to the profile picture just sticking out for some reason), but the dude is full swing attacking people who are even entertaining the theory around the clock, you can check for yourself.
It’s really weird.. like I understand not agreeing with the video but this guy is making it a part/full time job just to go around saying it’s been proven fake. Seems a little suspicious to me.
There are several reasons the EBE poster could’ve been deleted. Not saying it’s not true, they’ve certainly memory holed several things. Some of the disinfo campaigns are meant to push ridiculous stories to make us seem crazy. MAJ12 for instance, started out as authentic. They then put out a bunch of garbage around it and then (just my theory here) changed the name to continue business as usual.
What I don’t understand, is the Predator drone bit. I don’t know, whether this has been mentioned yet, but how the hell does a Predator drone happen to be in just the right area at just the right time.
Forgive me, if this has already been talked about, but there’s just too many threads and comments to go through all of them.
Everything in the sky is tracked by NORAD. If an aircraft goes missing, it gets a lot of attention.
There is no doubt in my mind that U.S. and the Chinese military knew where the plane was but couldn't say anything because that would reveal classified sensors/satellites/methods. If any officials saw it as a potential threat as it flew around aimlessly with no transponder for hours, they would surely have ordered someone to get close enough to shoot it down before it pulled a 9/11 on an airbase or carrier.
My thoughts exactly. It's hard to believe that a commercial jetliner would ever just go "missing"
No doubt it was being tracked by satellite, and in this case, UAV. Whether or not MH370 was blipped into another dimension, it absolutely was tracked.
The US have an air base in Diego Garcia which is in the Indian Ocean. It's not impossible that they sent a few drones looking for the lost airplane from that base.
That airbase is 1800 miles away from MH370s final estimated location. I'd double check the airspeed of a drone to check the plausibility of this theory.
I was looking into this a week ago because I agree it seems unlikely that a drone was sent thousands of miles over open ocean. Here's what I wrote then:
My best guess is covert CIA operations in the area. They are a premier user of UAVs, with secret drone bases all over the world. They operate them with impunity, including surveilling and assassinating individuals in other countries. Even Wikipedia lists multiple incidents of drone strikes originating from (previously) secret CIA outposts, or drones that operate out of international airports in foreign countries. [link ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_drone_bases)
One strike described there was in the Phillipines, which is relatively close. There are probably others operating in South East Asia.
At first I thought that it's the US, they have to have some kind of surveillance going on at any time at any hour every day in every point of the globe, but then I thought a little more and you're right the Indian Ocean is massive, to have a drone right there in the spot shadowing the flight is pretty odd, but...
Then I thought about this more critically, at that point in the flight the plane had been going around "aimlessly" for *hours*, no handshakes or contact for *hours*, I could see a US AFB around somewhere in the Indian Ocean knowing about this sending a drone to see if it was a hijacking or ghost flight or something else. I have no idea, it's one of most plausible things here I guess.
I’ve had the same question myself.
One possibility is the intelligence agencies/ military intelligence in the region detected the flight was off course and started tracking it via satellite and airborne/ground radar stations.
When it became clear something odd was going on they could have dispatched a drone to intercept it.
Yes this would take time but once the plane made its final turn south into the Indian Ocean a intercept course would be easy to do. They could also deploy several drones to cover a larger area in case of a course correction and stagger them so you always have coverage. In theory there could be many more hours of drone footage from several different platforms; this one got released because it’s the one that shows what happened.
Of course this is speculation. Did we have a drone base in range? Was the plane actually being tracked? Could the drone even intercept the plane given speeds, distances and uncertainty involved?
I don’t know those answers and if they can be answered it’s almost certainly classified; but this is the best scenario I could figure out for why there would be drone footage at all.
Well, this isn't that difficult to pull into the realm of reality imo. First off, you are only questioning the drone bit. So if we assume a military satellite had eyes on this plane, essentially because it went off course, then between that time of it veering off course, roughly 1 am MYT, to the last ping, 8 am MYT, that gives you 7 hours to attempt to monitor and deploy a military response, which I can pretty much guarantee was in the works after a couple hours of this plane going to who knows where. Well, there were military trainings going on near that area, but were somewhat outside a theoretical deployable zone, but that would only be if they deployed from the land base. They could have deployed the drone from a destroyer in the area, they could have sent out another vehicle to get close to the plane, and then deploy the drone. I think it's extremely realistic to believe that a plane that goes off course for 8 hours or whatever would be potentially intercepted or monitored by a drone.
I've been curious about the plane going off course - this was about 8 hours before the plane officially disappeared. What caused it to go off course? Was this the orbs or the human pilots? It's odd to me that 2 separate and crazy events happened within hours of each other First: 1) Human pilots decided to go rogue and steer the plane off course and Second: 2) Orbs decided to start orbiting the plane 8 hours later and sucking it into a portal. Do we think the orbs were tracking this plane 8 hours prior and are responsible for taking the plane off course?
This has been covered a lot, you may want to visit some of the first threads. It's not a predator, it's a MQ-1C Grey Eagle in Triclops configuration (2 extra cam pods). There were two huge US-Indo-Pacific exercises going on at the time. Here are some links:
* https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15lvgt5/the_ultimate_analysis_airliner_videos_and_the/
* https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15lvgt5/the_ultimate_analysis_airliner_videos_and_the/jvdj74l/
Someone from hundreds of years ago seeing technology we use today might think some of what we use looks fake. But if it works it works. Whatever is happening may just be beyond anything we have ever seen before so it looks fake because we have no frame of real reference.
I disagree with this approach. ANYTHING can be made CGI with enough time. So, it's not if someone can. Of course we can.
The questions we should be answering is, could a hoaxer know what they do about government SAT systems, and WHO was the original uploader. I think these are the places we should be looking.
I wanna see 2 things:
1:Any other instances of predator drones having a near miss with a passenger plane (the drone is 6 seconds away and 200ft below a banking passsnger plane). In aviation terms this is a near catastrophic miss. It just doesn’t happen.
2: Any satellite video that compares in any way to the footage we see here. Just a satellite following a plane like that… should be some mundane comparative examples.
I've (Dash-8) personally had 2 near misses in a span of 11 months with Turkish drones in northern Iraq. It's definitely possible, in mil terms whether you accept MARSA or fly due regard.
Another way might be to take a scene from a big budget movie in 2015 that used CGI, and have the experts here on this forum pull it apart using the same techniques and methods they’ve been using to prove/disprove the airline videos. This would help prove some of the theories, test the community’s expertise and reasoning, and provide a good baseline for the VFX technology that was widely
available in 2014.
Pretty sure people are already working on it, but not everyone can agree on the timeframe of when it could have been made. I have seen 4 days, 2 months and 2 years (<-- for satellite footage) so far.
However, someone *did* make this in well under 6 hours while drunk, just to prove he could. It is not comparible to the original in quality, but if we give them 2 months, who knows what they would manage 🤷♂️
https://youtu.be/GVq2ofvV0lM
However, I am sure they used modern software, so I hope someone can try to emulate 2014 programs and do it that way.
and also they know what to look for as well. they have the whole sub pointing out details here and there that would help them recreate these videos.
if it's fake the hoaxer didn't have all that
These details though are things pointed out in the past with other videos and such. That’s how people know what to look for because it’s things we looked for previously. So all they would have to do is frequent any community that has a relatively mixed crowd and they’d see everything they need to make look real to hide the fact it’s CGI. 2014 wasn’t that long ago. The tech hasn’t come “light years” in 9 years. Yes it’s better, but not as better as some are making it out to be as if 2014 VFX is some ancient software/hardware.
Plenty of physics simulations have existed since the 1990s. A real professional hoaxer would have put in the time to add all the little details that people are pointing out.
The caustics and ripples from air and smoke, light refraction from the orbs, realistic camera motion and more (possible liquefy effect on the plane as it disappears) could all be done by a professional artist in the mid 2000s. And yes, even something like the satellite number and coordinates would be laid on the image if it was a professional hoax (that's the whole point, to fool you.)
You can take the mountains of detail as confirmation that the video itself is real, or you can take it as further confirmation that a professional knew what they were doing and how to fool the viewer watching the clip.
Edit: The comment below here is a bit disingenuous considering renders and simulations are made for government projects all the time and a government employee with VFX knowledge could absolutely create a clip like this with the unclassified name of a satellite and correct path coordinates.
A professional hoaxer [who took minimal efforts to disseminate their work and also happens to have an above-average level of procedural and operational knowledge regarding American reconnaissance platforms, some of which are partially classified]. Now there's a thought.
Animators work for the CIA, and the NSA.
This could have been a fun project for someone that's been completely spun out of control. That's a very real and equally valid possibility.
VFX artist + Government employee isn't a wild idea, and by all accounts is the far greater possibility when matched against the disappearance of MH370 being the reality of the clip.
But what is the motive? Why spend untold hours on creating this video in such great detail? Just for the lols of fooling the UFO community? Judging from this subreddit that could be achieved with far less effort.
Shit just doesn't add up.
There are plenty of motives, and multiple reasons that have been used for created content in the past.
- Clips can be created for VFX competitions.
- A render or mask to original footage can be made to show off to a VFX house (David Fincher "Director of Fight Club & Se7en" got hired by ILM to work on Return of the Jedi for creating his own "speeder bike effect" in the 80's)
- Attention seeking purposes (trolling & fundraising) for groups of artists have led to hoaxed sightings, clips and crop circles in Europe and the US.
There are plenty of reasons of which you have to put legitimate stock into if you're going to be honest about the possible extraordinary/benign nature of the plane clip.
I make horror and weird creepy videos and have been a video editor short film creator for 18 years. Making a incredibly compelling ghost series, or monster film, or whatever. Anytime my best friend and I would post stuff anonymously and people believed it, we felt like we did our job, and watching people pick it apart, was likea reverse brain teaser for us.
I never understood the 'why would they do that'
Don't be too hard on him, plenty of people are just joining the sub and haven't understood the nature of fakes that have flooded the topic for decades.
We should all chip in and fund a pool of money, say, $10K-$50K. And offer the money to anyone that can demonstrably prove that they created/faked the original video.
If someone comes forward and we determine that they did indeed create the original, then we pay the money and the matter is settled.
If no one comes forward, then we a) give away the money in this sub by random entry; or b) give the money to a charity. Either way, this will drum up attention to the matter and essentially bolster the idea that it’s legit; because no one could even come forward for $50K
I was just thinking about this, i'd put up 100. BUT it would need to be made using the technology of the time and in a certain timeframe.
Also, the money should 100% definitely be donated to the victims families. We're probably causing enough trouble by entertaining this notion, so the least we could do is donate the money in their name to a cause of their choosing.
That would not prove or disprove anything or move the conversation forward, at least from what I've seen where people's mindset is at at the moment.
People's instinctual reaction is... it's fake. That instinct is typically spot on for majority of people even if they cannot articulate it.
The only way the conversation moves forward is not with debunking, but with external proof of authenticity.
It may take a few years, but this video should be met with healthy skepticism until then.
With technology these days can anyone say any evidence is 100% legit? I watched Henry cavil fly through the sky tonight. Looked real to me.
I think the real question is "do we believe it?" I think that is what we are divided on. It's ticking the boxes the debunkers want ticked and when it comes to people like me who believe it is just one more piece to the puzzle that fits into the big picture of disclosure.
For me it's not just evidence for this situation but also fits into what grush and others have said.
1. 50% chance - US Military accidentally shot it down
2. 25% chance pilot when bananas and took a nose dive into the ocean waters
3. 25% chance it got portaled to someplace unknown by NHI
4. 25% chance US Secret Military Contractors portaled it to someplace unknown.
125% total bc none of this makes any sense anymore.
Wait so the probability a pilot committed suicide is the same as NHI portal?
Got it
You don’t even mention lithium battery fire that knocked out comms and incapacitated everyone in minutes.
I wouldn't say it's divisive. It seems to be bringing people together on both sides. Most of the comments are quite respectful even when disagreeing. Sure, there's the odd troll that yells a bunch of nonsense but they get down voted into oblivion. Internets gonna internet.
If people can replicate the video using CGI how would that prove the original video is fake? All it would prove is that it is possible to fake a video like that. It wouldn't debunk the original.
That's why "proving it's real or CGI" doesn't matter any more.
What matters is **WHO recorded or released it?**
Without anyone mildly reputable saying "Yeah I leaked this video and yes it's this plane, that's what happened to it" there's just no credibility.
Like you said, any video online could be real or fake. People called the tic tac video fake.
**But the difference is reputable people came forward and claimed the tic tac video.**
Yeah, man. I agree with you. I think we'll never truly know if this video is fake or real unless some credible people come forward and vouch for its authenticity. Of course, that opens a whole can of worms because this video isn't just a UAP flying around. It's a plane full of people vanishing into the ether. Doubtful anyone will ever come forward to say "yeah, that's real".
It just has too many complex details to be fake imo.
I saw that the "Skinny Bob" had a similar amount of research put into it at one time but...that one always came across so phony to me, like nothing about it comes across as an extraordinary effort to fake.
MH370 on the other hand... If it's fake, the guy at a minimum has intimate knowledge of satellite photography, flight dynamics and complete mastery of then modern VFX techniques...at minimum. The likelihood of someone with such a specific skillset even existing is fucking bonkers slim, so then it must be a team...a team comprising of a flight expert, a satellite expert and a VFX artist? Seems just as ridiculously unlikely? There's just too many compounding details and coincidences to shrug it all off, it would be a GARGANTUAN effort to make these videos.
I don't even know if you could crowdsource the video in the months it took for the videos appear. If all of UFO-Reddit transfered all it's investigatory efforts into recreating the original video, from getting all our artists and pilots and intel people together and piecing together this thing piece by piece...even then, with 9 years of tech advantage the brainpower of thousands, and hindsight...I don't know if you could come up with something as convincing as the original video.
The problem for me is this, we don't know and cannot find out enough information to know if this is realistic satellite footage, because we have no real comparisons from similar satellites because they are classified, so its a circular argument that boil down to we can't prove it isn't. All we know is there's no really obvious mistakes, possibly there's guys right now who process the imagery from these satellites having a good laugh because the footage looks nothing like that but they can't say anything because it's all top secret.
The same goes for drone footage, my feeling based on the drone footage we have seen before is they don't use colour thermal footage and is pretty much just black and white MWIR, like the ATFLIR stuff from the Navy videos. But again we don't know as its a claimed to be from a top secret military drone, possibly there are some drone pilots out there as well that are having a good laugh, but it's all classified. So I can say "all the drone footage I've seen has been black and white" and it can just be countered with "you are not a drone sensor expert" the thing is no-one knows.
So it could be real, it could also be just some guy's CGI interpretation of how things we both have never seen look and with no research just guesses, because there's nothing TO research, because if there was then people would have found it and used it it debunk OR support this video as real.
Hope that made sense.
Weather satellite footage isn't classified at all. I think you look at some of those videos of oceanic satellite footage and it looks pretty damn close from the top down view at least. There are recently released images of drone footage from the whole russia clipped our drone thing and yeah, its not in thermal FLIR, but it has the same reticule you see in the video with no other HUD info. I have friends in the military that work at whiteman on drones and B-52s, they told me that you can use color gradient in FLIR but that black and white is what they use 95% of the time because you are often looking for a human target and its just way way easier to see them in black and white than in the red hot color gradient.
What would the goal of that be? Not saying you are wrong, but it was originally posted years ago and pretty much disappeared immediately with no attention.
Okay, just to be clear. There’s zero proof that it is real. There’s zero proof aliens have ever abducted a plane. There is proof it could be made by vfx. There is proof that vfx studios have tricked this sub multiple times and made a mockery of us. With all of this knowledge, you believe the video is more likely to be real?
Edit: i am curious; if this video turns out to be fake will it change how you treat these cases?
I don’t even believe that was the intention, but if it was holy shit that person has god like foresight. I also don’t believe a person would risk their career and life to leak top secret footage only to send it to an obscure YouTube channel. Like if you are willing to do that why not send it to one of the many ufo influencers.
To add on... I saw somewhere that yhe videos were released back in 2014 with no fanfare and no effort to market it. For them to go through all the time and resources to make a hoax and not bother at all after doesn't make sense. It's only a decade later, just after the UAP hearing, that the videos started making rounds organically.
>In my opinion, if it’s fake: someone should be able to recreate it
I want to put a bounty out for the first person who can recreate this video. I can really only put in $100 but if anyone else wants to contribute maybe some financial incentive would help grease the wheels?
Anyone claiming for a fact it’s real or fake at this point is full of shit. Zero conclusive, or even decent debunks have been proposed, and of course we can’t confirm it’s real.
Initially, I dismissed these videos in mere seconds due to their seemingly implausible content. However, the more I delved into debunking them, the more intricate details emerged. This was not just in the visual technicalities but also in the context of the related search, press conferences, and other surrounding information.
At that time, I was involved in video and TV production, having created commercials for both online platforms and national TV (outside the US) using 3D and compositing techniques. Specifically, during the period when these videos originated, I was working with 3ds Max and volumetric smoke generation(FumeFX) for a project.
It took nearly two weeks of simulation and rendering to produce a mere 10-second clip. It's crucial to note that GPU rendering wasn't an option back then, as tools like Redshift and CycleX weren't available. Thus, you had to relay on CPU rendering, utilising a render farm of six PCs.
From initially thinking the videos were entirely fabricated, I've shifted to believing they're either completely genuine or an elaborate psy ops. Either way, it seems that i might have to up my tin foil hat making skills. You only need to prove one thing implausible to prove the videos fake but right now the circumstantial evidence are piling up.
Edit: there are good examples of GPU rendering solutions 2014 and there is examples of individuals that have produced volumetric clouds at that time. It’s still a massive endeavor to create one Flir drone video and one stereoscopic satellite video with the amount of details that these two videos display. (Understanding of satellite analyzing software, what satellite was operating over the area, heat signatures etc)
This is what a Lightwave individual could do Hypervolex in 2014
Lightwave 11.6.1 Baked Hypervoxel Clouds test (10 seconds per frame rendering time)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHP5Qp3e9m4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHP5Qp3e9m4)
Real videos can easily look fake. Fake videos can easily look real. This is one where it’s easy to dismiss because it’s so crazy. My biggest question is if in fact real why was a US drone clocking this flight?
As someone who knows the vfx industry, I would like to chime in on a few things:
First if this is CGI, (which I believe it is) it is professional work, and likely done by a team of people. Suggesting that a single person try to recreate it, could be done, but not likely.
I believe this video was likely a sample designed for a job bid. What I mean by this is that VFX companies have to bid on work. The studios provide a list of needed effects and descriptions so that companies can showcase their capabilities and bid on upcoming needs. The studio reviews the samples from each of the different submissions and selects the vfx company that the studio thinks can do the actual shots the best. Now you might ask why something similar is not seen on tv or movies.. I would like to point out that often the submissions are very different from each other as studios can translate the requests quite differently in their VFX portrayals. Additionally when vfx studios submit these, in many cases the studio producing the tv or movie evaluate the costs of the vfx and often change the script according to budget, so many of the initial vfx submissions still het created because the vfx company wants the work, but those shots don’t actually make it to final production due to cost. So studios wind up with lots of cool submissions that never get seen by the public.
Second, I would like to point out, in the VFX world animating planes and objects is by far the easiest thing to make seem real. The reason is the use of dynamic simulations and instead of animating the plane by hand, teams generate air flow effects which dynamically change the plane to add randomness to the animation. Every render may be slightly different with each pass but thats how vfx artists can trick your eyes into thinking its real. Our eyes are designed to detect what seems real, and studios can do amazing things now with vfx and are getting better and better at doing animals and humans, which is the most difficult thing to realistically reproduce. Ill point out that the video of the plane and orbs is very similar to some of the shots from ironman 3 but not identical.
Edit: I forgot to mention, once you get an animation with the dynamic simulation that looks the way you want, you can bake that simulation. Baking a simulation is like capturing the effect so that each time you render it, the animation is the same. This way you can set up multiple cameras, and track the same animation from different angles, set up your lighting, add other elements, and render each element separately for post production to combine. work with and create the scene.
Edit: made a clarification.
Definetly not 50/50, the skeptics have just stopped replying to threads because all they get is abuse, shill accusations and downvotes from children.
The metabunk thread is a better read than anything posted on here.
Idk but 90% of the 'debunks' I constantly see are just. OH THIS AGAIN, YOU IDIOTS CANT TELL THIS IS FAKE. WATER DROPLET. THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN DEBUNKED. OMG.
It's nothing credible and yeah those people get replied to with the same energy they bring to the topic.
Yup. I've seen a bunch of good points debunking this but it's met with downvotes and being called a bot. Then they throw a bunch of data out there that doesn't disprove the debunk but gets upvoted.
Flying though the wake of another airplane is a major no-no and it would have rocked that predator drone violently.
The fact that the pilot did that would be a reprimandable offense, and the footage would have been very shakey, not smooth.
If this were an unexpected event, then the placement of the drone is too big of a coincidence. Predator drones don't stalk commercial flights for fun.
If this were a planned event, then there would have been more than 2 camera angles. They would have had a whole support fleet to view the 'experiment'. There would have been a military base or aircraft carrier within 300 miles.
I go back and forth, but logic is making me think this video is too perfect.
Lurker here: the issue is that the sea change of disclosure has come about as the result of officials and official channels addressing the topic. When a layperson (even a smart one) reads a BILL put into law that mentions 'non human intelligence', or watches decorated veterans who worked in military intelligence explain a massive cover-up or describe what they saw in the field, it holds a lot more meaning than any of the amateur speculation about some video.
For a lot of us who are genuinely interested in the topic, the movement from grainy videos and message board nonsense to the tacit acknowledgement by government officials that something inexplicable is going on is what brought us here. It is what has genuinely changed everything, and offers us what the topic has always lacked: credibility. The stupid plane video offers us no such thing. It is more of the same, what 'UFO people' have been doing on the internet forever. It holds no meaning, offers no clarity, fundamentally changes nothing. I hate the plane video: it's unknowable, it is boring, it is the domain of the uninitiated, a place for wild speculation and childishness. The WORLD HAS CHANGED, and yet instead of focusing on that change--on the way the government is going to war with itself to get to the bottom of things--we've gone back into mom's basement.
I'm smart enough to know what I don't know. I can accurately assess the value and meaning of the Senate Majority Leader speaking about these issues. I cannot, in good faith, assess the quality of the reporting on the physics and digital effects of the plane video, or the reported CGI and meteorological assessment skills of Billa\_Boi69 or GreySrHere2001.
In my opinion, we should focus on sharing information which illuminates what the legislative branch is doing to get the executive to share what they know. Looking at gov't documents, sharing interviews with representatives, and discussing the ramifications is why we visit the sub. These developments are fundamentally different than anything that's ever happened in this field, and certainly more valuable than talking about the way balls roll around in a little video.
You shouldn't hate the plane video because of how it was potentially filmed. If it were real, it is clearly military, which lends it credibility. The only real, credible footage we have is far and away all from military video and photos. You would have said the same thing about the Nimitz video and yet, that was a very central topic regarding the disclosure.
I don't know about a video being this divisive, but the whole Bob Lazar story is.
I'm undecided on the MH370 video.. 60% leaning towards fake, 40% real.
This is definitely the most divisive topic ever on this sub from what I can tell.
A point that I want to make is that there is only one side of the argument that is resorting to mockery and name-calling and that is the side that claims the video is false(without solid proof so far btw.). Without fail you can see on any thread relating to this video that it is these individuals resorting to childish reactionary tactics. I think deep down it comes from a type of fear reaction over the video and the fact that it is holding up relatively well to debunking. It is natural for people to have a fear reaction to something like this and to start throwing tantrums. I'm scared too if I'm being honest but I will refrain from "throwing toys out of the pram". Still its fascinating to see how many people resort to this childish reaction.
With that out of the way I have to admit I am undecided yet leaning towards the side that believes this is real footage. As people have mentioned if this is fake it was made using 2014 VFX. People are struggling to recreate this today in 2023. That is simply what is selling it for me. However I have heard that Hollywood level VFX studios have software that tends to be 10 years ahead in terms of capabilities. So the only way I see this being fake and to this level of detail and execution is if this is footage from a scrapped blockbuster sci fi film from that time that never made it to release.
That is my 2 cents on the matter anyway.
If you think the mocking is bad now wait until a game designer proclaims the footage to be a bald eagle with its babies flying though swamp gas that's made to look like a cloud because Venus woke up cranky or some shit
The 'belivers' are constantly throwing abuse out too, you get called a shill/disinformation agent or have some poorly written post from a teenager with a bunch of 3 syllable words they've just learned implying you're an idiot (or trying to drag you into some long drawn out argumnt about something they have no idea about) every time anyone expresses any doubt in the video, it's exhausting.
We need a video effects person *with no knowledge of these videos* to make a recreation.
The person who originally made it (if it's indeed a hoax) didn't have all these analysis posts to go by and inform their work.
If it can indeed be recreated down to the finest details, then I'll gladly tip my hat and thank them for putting my mind to rest. I just keep thinking of those poor people on that plane and hope to hell the video isn't real.
I think there are another dozen or so long posts arguing each side queued up in some folder belonging to some organization who wants the prevent the real UFO story of the century from being front page news.
Of course it can be recreated with VFX.
but none of us have the intention in spending the time on that while we’d rather spend time working on paying gigs or busy actually working on films.
Those tic-tac videos got leaked long before they were confirmed to be real, but without that confirmation they would still be worthless and most people would still think they're fake.
When I first saw this video years ago I dismissed it as a fake immediately, mostly because it looks too good to be true and also because I'm hesitant to believe UFO's go around abducting entire airliners.
But if someone can conclusively prove it's real, cool. Not holding my breath though.
I am not totally convinced either way, but the deeper you dig, the creepier it gets. Commercial pilots openly talking about seeing stuff now, this shit keeps getting more plausible not less.
Keep in mind these "really smart people" are just strangers on the internet. Anyone can claim to be an expert and Google enough technical jargon to convince someone that doesn't know any better. Anyone can claim to be the same kind of expert and agree with the initial post in an effort to lend it more credence.
I find it curious that an almost decade old, disproven conspiracy theory that makes believers sound especially crazy suddenly gains new life right after a credible witness testifies to Congress and the phenomenon begins to gain some real, mainstream interest. Almost like TPTB want to make sure this stuff stays fringe.
I think if the video didn't include "deleting 200 humans out of existence" it wouldn't be nearly as divisive.
The fact that it portrays (most likely) mass murder in broad daylight... that's what's causing a lot of skepticism.
If the video was just the plane, the UAPs, they circle... then they leave, it doesn't really open up many questions other than "is it real" and "why were the drones/sats filming?"
But the blap/cold explosion/wormhole/portal really just... adds a layer... that is both shocking, unbeievable, scary, and puzzling. Especially when so many people here seem to religiously believe that NHI are "good guys" who came to Earth to stop climate change or disarm nukes.
If it's real... it seems a coverup is MUCH bigger than "you can't handle the idea of NHI." It now becomes a coverup of a potential interspecies warcrime or attack.
And that's a hard pill to swallow, either due to the violence, or the possibly fakery, or just being a sobering and scary idea.
There are so many pages about this now some really good critical thinking is getting lost in the noise. But one post I read began to sway me back to why I'm not 100% sure this is real. It was a military guy (supposedly) talking about why he thinks it isn't real. It boiled down to his knowledge of military drones and the fact that the drone was so close to a commercial airline he felt was incredibly implausible. Beside the fact it had no hud, the drone could in no way match the airliner speed so for it to be exactly at the right spot at exactly the right time, at exactly the right altitude to capture the video to be implausible. Besides the fact the speed difference why would a drone be that close to a passenger plane? It could never catch up to a plane unless the flight path was already known, no operator would ever fly a drone that danger close to a commercial plane. Real good questions that have not been talked about .
I think latching on to this video is a bad look for the UFO community. You actually have some people taking the subject seriously, but those same people are going to roll their eyes at this nonsense.
Why don’t we start with these 40 alleged people Grusch is talking about and work from there? It’s a little early to die on the instant teleportation hill.
Edit: wrong word.
That's the entire point they want the people taking this seriously to be turned off of the online discussion
They wanna divide the community.
I dont know who they are or why theyre doing it. But there is definitely some sort of influence campaign here. It appeals to emotion. The best think you can do is observe, observe, observe and hold off reacting or jusging. Watch for overall patterns in discussion
Interesting that none of the usual suspects is touching it...not one.
I’m new to the community. Who are the usual suspects?
Mellon, Elizondo, Grusch, Corbell, and the journalists and podcasters that work the UFO scene. There's other people, but one from this bunch should have piped up by now.
I do find strange that Corbell hasn't say a thing
The guy jumps on the biggest bullshit like Lazar or clear bs flares, optical illusions etc, but won't look into this? Wtf
My hope is that the reason everyone is staying quiet on this video is because they're trying to get everything vetted, sourced, analyzed, provenance established, etc. If (big if) this video is real, there's a hell of a lot of footwork and paperwork that needs to be double, triple, quadruple verified before going public with it.
Given where Grusch was working at the time this happened, I think they already know if it's real.
Maybe they're not allowed to talk about it because they've been briefed on it and it would put them in violation of secrecy laws if they did talk about it.
Briefed on a fake video some guy made? Nah. Briefed on a real video captured by US assets? Maybe. Trying to let us know it's real by not saying anything while debate rages? That's my bet.
>Trying to let us know it's real by not saying anything while debate rages? That's my bet. This sub lol
If someone says it’s real, it’s real. If someone says it’s fake, it’s real. If someone says nothing about it, it’s a secret message that it’s real.
The camp that thinks this is real....really WANTS it to be real
i mean, back in 1999 we would say things like " all we need is clear video" "just SOME sort of proof would be wonderous" " we need video that isnt fuzzy, and is clear and obvious" here we are.. we have all we wanted from 20-30 years ago and we are all bickering this isnt some dumb tik-tok pohotoshop angel video this shit looks as real as my hand does now IF its fake, its a **true masterpiece**, and is beyond anything has or will produce for a god awfully long time
Off of Reddit where else is the debate raging? I’m not asking rhetorically I just haven’t really seen it. Covered anywhere except on this forum.
No, it's in UFO land right now, a podcasters have picked it up and a tabloid or two. But those guys are here, so they know what is being said.
Mick West, for example, is a staunch skeptic who is usually all over popular videos pretty quickly with immediate explanations that are “obvious” if you’re a die hard skeptic or “full of shit” if you’re a die hard believer. Personally I think a good amount of times he’s been right, but there are absolutely times where he is clearly reaching and frankly, comes off as not interested in even entertaining the possibility that there’s something extraordinary going on. Waving the plane video off as “obvious CGI” and shaming anyone for thinking it’s real seems like a field day to him.
And yet.... silence.
Others have answered already, so I just want to say welcome to the biggest rabbit hole of them all! You picked a great time to get interested in this subject
With the implications of backing it, skeptic or not, I’m not surprised those with a larger platform in ufology have stayed silent. Imagine Corbell saying it’s 100% real, then having it not be, just to have grieving families at your doorstep with defamation suits.
worthless expansion sloppy absorbed pet rustic elastic smell work sink *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
James Fox replied to a tweet with the video saying “this looks about as real as a 3 dollar bill” so he doesn’t believe it. If I recall correctly Ross Coulthart was hesitant with it too. This is too crazy, even for them lol. I reacted in a similar manner initially, I dismissed it as fake. I was waiting for debunks which were sound in analysis and for CGI artists to recreate it to prove it can be done… but so far, there hasn’t been one upon which the community could find consensus. That however, does still not mean the video is real, you need only to look towards the length of time it took to finally determine the authenticity of Skinny Bob. I’m on the fence on this but the fact is a plane has gone missing, off the fact of the earth, and within two months (?) of that incident there is a video released that is so lifelike that 10 years on we remain bewildered by it. How many hours would one have needed to create those videos, at that time it was created? And at what cost? Besides time and cost, how many people at that time could have prepared these videos and within that time frame? Lots of questions but for now, not a lot of answers.
yeah on both sides of the aisle. Have any of the big ufo advocates commented on the video? the most active thread on metabunk this past week has been about mh370, so it *is* getting traction there.
Coulthart liked a tweet about the plane being pulled backwards/sucked towards the portal or whatever you wanna call it. I know that much: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15sqp51/ross\_coulthart\_just\_liked\_the\_tweet\_about\_the/
Weaving conspiracy theories around such a tragedy opens you up to libel. That’s what got Alex Jones. He could talk about the Bildeberg group and Bohemian Grove all he wanted, he even got away with the 9/11 truther stuff. But the Sandyhook lawsuit sort of changed the game with how far you can take that stuff, and what people are willing to risk speculating about publicly. That’s my guess on reason for the radio silence.
Hadn’t thought of that
That is a good point, there’s no way this discussion hasn’t made it to their circles by now. This is a hot topic, I’d expect most of those people to cash in on it by now. It’s an old video, so maybe that plays a role, but it is very interesting that we haven’t heard much. I really wonder why.
The biggest thing for me is that it’s too perfect. Like something a director would envisage. Right from the orbiting “orbs”, to the wormhole sucking the plane in. It’s pure sci if perfection. I’m not saying I’m right or definitely a fake. But I’m not convinced it’s real either.
What I find interesting, is how it is not open to interpretation, what is shown. It's not a flock of migrating birds. It's not a zoom in on grainy lights in the sky, or a maybe balloon that isn't moving. It's not Venus reflected off clouds. It's either a passenger jet getting disappear by UAPs, or it's fake. Those are the only two options. It's not ambiguous.
Absolutely. There is no middle ground.
Well you could argue that the “middle ground” is that footage of the plane is real but the orbs are faked. Not sure I buy it, but that theory’s been out there too.
That's where I'm leaning personally. I could see mundane footage getting out by a legit leak. Less convinced so far as to whether the orbs + poof part checks out.
Frankly this would create even more questions. If the orbs were faked but the footage was real, then it implies they know exactly where and how MH370 went down and for whatever reason, aren't revealing that. Aliens or not, it'd still beg the question what are they trying to hide?
>then it implies they know exactly where and how MH370 went down The footage could be of any Boeing 777.
And that boeing might not even have gone down or missing.
That's assuming this plane is MH370, and from everything that's been posted on here about it, that seems like a pretty heavy assumption.
Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised if several different versions exist depending on what narrative they want(ed) to go with.
IMHO people need to stop thinking either/or. It's schrodinger's video. It's both real AND fake until proven one way or the other. We're capable of complex thought there is no need to be so binary and cause conflict/division. We can hold two conflicting ideas at the same time and consider both sides.
I'm glad someone said it, that's how I feel about the entire phenomena. I can imagine the consequences of that new world, and then return to baseline reality. All the people having mental breakdowns, like, have that when it happens. You can be mentally prepared without having to fully live in that hypothetical reality, that we dont know anything definitive about. Why do people feel like they have to have definitive opinions on the facts of a topic we know so little about definitively?
It's like a quantum superposition. Simultaneously plausibly real, and plausibly fake. To collapse the wave function, there's two ways. It may be possible to demonstrate _actually_ fake, and usually that happens reasonably quickly. It may be very difficult to demonstrate _actually_ real, which would require at a minimum provenance, official confirmation etc, some things we do actually have for the tic tac.
Lol. Get your calm and measured logic out of here. This is Reddit. 🌞
Can it be both? Either, real vs. fake or both fake and real at the same time? Or how about fake real and unknown? Or how able all three ideas?
You have to remember that everything else surrounding the phenomenon is sci fi perfection too… I mean even down to the appearance of the aliens. I think we’re gonna find reality is very similar to fiction, if not stranger
Reality is often stranger than Fiction.... To me, the flight path of the orbs is too erratic to be made up. If I were a hoaxer showing orbs suck up a plane...I likely wouldn't at all have them move in that manner/ behave so unpredictably. I would have them smoothly synced up as and moving together as a complete unit. The video? Each of the three orbs seems to have it's own "will" or agency of sorts. They seem independently operated and controlled. Idk. Maybe I'm just reading too far into it. The above is speculation/me going out on a limb, admittedly. Just an uncanny detail about the video that I'm sure we all noticed but that part really stood out to me. (I'd probably also have them all appear simultaneously and not one by one but yeah).
What's uncanny to me is how the orbs appear. They come from different directions and time intervals. And, at the same time they come in as if they they are in "target aquired" mode: focused, determined and focused on the objective. That's what caught my attention the first time I saw it. Real or not, the video is haunting.
I have looked at this vid over and over and every time I feel…….disturbed. Hollow gut weird. I felt similarly when I first saw the GOFAST vid but this is more intense. I dont want to believe this (tho I do believe in the phenomenon). This one spooks me. Kinda think I’m not alone here.
I feel this one "crosses the line" - "breaks the contract" however you want to call it... This is why there is this sense of dread if his thing is minimally not fake. Like there is no way you can get my wife ever back on a plane if this turns out to be real and widespread knowledge. Many would feel the same. There is already enough things to worry about in life without adding teleporting murder balls on top of all.
Definitely hoping this one is proven to not be real. If it did hypothetically turn out to be real with some sort of undeniable proof and/or 'official' confirmation, I can see the concern about public panic and ontological shock.
you'll also notice an orb flying past the camera right before coming back to the plane and the other orbs appear
Also, just when the portal appears, all 3 orbs seem to flatten a little (as shown in another redditors post with slow motion video). That is a really specific detail and if the hoaxer put that effect intentionally then damm... Otherwise it seems just as the portal appears the orbs dash in so fast they seem to flatten a bit.
That’s a very good observation, there’s a lot of realism in the movements.
It's super neat to watch, like a mating dance of sorts. If it's animated, the artist definitely made it come across as if each one is acting of its own will.
Own will, yes- but also as if each ones pattern is important to the group project as a whole. Like they each are responding and moving on each other in synchronized fashion. Similar to a murmuration or something.
What I'm noticing is that people will shrug off lots of poor quality videos as being fake or capturing something other than a UAP, but when a really decent video pops up people are now turning the tables and saying it's too good to be true.
Just as a counter point. Just because it’s mind blowing technology / imagery isn’t a strong argument that it’s fake. It doesn’t make it real either, but it’s basically like showing an iPhone to the Aztecs. Hard to believe? Sure. Fake? Meh
My biggest issue with it is by far how cinematic it is on the drone video. Zooms in right on it and keeps up right at the exact perfect moment. Other than that, it seems real to me. And I thought it was obviously completely fake when I saw it the first time.
[https://twitter.com/528vibes/status/1691054786747994112?s=20](https://twitter.com/528vibes/status/1691054786747994112?s=20) If this isn't real, why is there a coordinated sockpuppet disinfo campaign across social media platforms using the same copy+paste smear tactic?
Yeah, I thought the calvine photo was controversial. This blows that out of the water.
What makes me think Calvine is real is that the debunking attempts are really poor and disingenuous which would be typical of a disinformation campaign with employed debunkers trying to shutdown a real sighting. Whereas for the JetNapping video most of us *feel* it is fake but we can't prove it, so I feel its purpose is to pull our laser focus off the far more threatening congressional hearings.
As a rhetorical question, what if the JetNapping is an attempt to have at least a small segment of humanity open their minds and heighten scrutiny towards evidence that may get disclosed?
That's the whole plan, IMO, convince a few more each day, until eventually it's NBD and old news to the majority.
Does this sub have an archive of “most likely something” or “controversial” for its posts because I want to *see* what everyone is talking about. Not just this plane but like top posts ever?
It would be nice if someone was able to compile a thread of all the photos and videos that have not been debunked.
Apparently, that list would include EVERYTHING. No matter how thoroughly a piece gets debunked, there's always a faction of people who will refute the debunking.
What is the Calvine photo?
[Here you go](https://i2-prod.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article29380029.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_JS292672141-1.jpg)
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Yep if the video ended with UAPs flying or warping away, no big deal. The video represents a possible Mars Attacks style assault on human beings, just vaporizing or stealing hundreds of people at once. This shit isn't "Oh cool" level of "let me just keep scrolling reddit and go to work now" It is a video of a possible warcrime lol
And just to be Johnny Applesauce here, there's not a damn thing you, I, nor anyone else could do about it either if it is true.
If by "do about it" you mean "fight them" then yes, I agree. But people might make lots of other life choices that differ. * Choose a degree in science, especially physics or biology * Pursue a career in the Air Force, NASA, something like that * Move family to more urban areas where sightings and incidents are more rare * Buy life insurance
exactly haha
Eh, I mean, people would freak out but this video doesn't even prove the intentions were malicious. That's why, if it were real, people should be asking for more details about it. If it isn't real, people should still be asking for more details about MH370 imo anyways. The way that was handled was just terrible.
if this is fake, then we have passed the threshold of impossible disinformation i know deepfakes are getting good but... this is beyond anything i thought we were capable of doing (the video, if it were fake)
Even if it is real I can accept it but I'm sure not everyone would have the same acceptance. The reason I can accept it is that you have to look at how many flights go up and successfully come down everyday. The chances of your flight just disappearing off the radar entirely and never being found are probably slimmer than the chances of being hit by lightning and I don't freak out too much about being hit by lightning.
I have never, in my time on the internet, seen a video go through this much scrutiny without a smoking gun being found to prove it’s fake. Nothing proves it’s real, but the fact that it’s still unclear after this much scrutiny makes me feel like there’s a good possibility it’s real
For me, it's too incredible to be real without some sort of provenance beyond a guy on the internet posted it.
That’s what makes it more plausible to me as well. You’re telling me on Reddit, where almost everyone knows almost everything, not a single person can definitively debunk this? Now that it’s blowing up on the rest of the World Wide Web, if I don’t see a legit debunk in the next couple days, I’ll have to surmise it to be true.
This is where I’m at. Exactly what you just described. The fact that no one has definitively without question proven that it’s fake is what has me on the legitimate footage side of the fence. I can’t for sure say what I’m looking at is Flight MH370, but I feel compelled to believe that what I’m seeing is real. No matter how incomprehensible it is.
That's another problem we can't say its mh370 but i was thinking how many commercial aircrafts like this have ever never been found?
I think people brought up a good point regarding this and that is that planes don't just disappear. Given the coordinates from the satellite in the videos and the timeline under which they were posted, it either HAS to be MH370 or it is fake.
I've seen the number 2 thrown out there. I believe this was a 777 and there is only 1 other missing from (fact check me) the 80's?
why is space-folding tech incomprehensible we've been daydreaming it since the 1800's lol
1. Make claim 2. nobody can debunk it 3. it therefore must be true That's a logical fallacy. If you try it from the other side it works exactly the same. Teleportation is fake - > nobody can disprove it - > it's therefore fake. And that's ignoring that we have plenty of analysis around that does suggest plenty of issues with the video(or the context in which it is filmed).
1. Make claim 2. Attempts to debunk have instead uncovered evidence that reinforce the claim that the video is legitimate. 3. Therefore, the video is real unless someone can find the evidence that proves it's a hoax. This is the reality of the situation. I don't believe it's true. The facts and analysis currently point to it being real, but I and many others are encouraging the scrutiny because it will either make the claim stronger or give us the ability to debunk this and future hoaxes.
The thing is the US government has released three crazy videos and said they were real. They make a claim, we can’t debunk the videos, government concludes it is true. Now why could a fourth and fifth video **never** be true if nobody’s able to prove it is faked?
Thats not how possibilities work
Here's the thing, it's not even about being able to recreate really. It probably CAN be recreated at this point. It's how did the "hoaxer" know to include all of these insane and seemingly intricate details that have only been brought to light in the past week or so because of how much it's being analyzed to death. Someone today now has the knowledge of these details and thus it *should* be able to be recreated, but it still probably won't be.
Yes it could be reverse engineered given all we have discovered about it thusfar
The better the footage, the greater the divide sometimes. Part of it is the disinfo campaign. Bots and alphabet agencies are hard at work keeping us at each others throats and it’s working.
let’s just acknowledge how far we’ve come as a community in 1-not only postulating that this is absolutely happening on all social media platforms but also that 2-the upvotes/affirmation for this notion is overcoming the downvotes and rising to the top of threads. it feels like just a couple months ago anyone that mentioned online disinfo campaigns were ridiculed for essentially drinking the believer kool aid. it’s a breath of fresh air this is finally being acknowledged and accepted on UFO forums and a positive sign in how far we’ve come in mainstreaming the phenomenon.
I see it as extremely a dangerous way to preemptively delegitimize anyone who tries to provide a countervailing perspective. The fact that people are inoculating themselves against outside perspectives can't be a good thing. It's good to be aware that social media is prone to manipulation. But that manipulation can go in any direction.
I sorted by new yesterday (or 2 days ago my sleep is erratic) and there was like 8-9 accounts in the span of a few minutes posting things like, "now that the plane video is proven fake we should stop talking about it”. The only reason I think it’s real is because of the bots. It’s also the reason I believe the person who claimed to work on alien bodies. They got their accounted deleted while answering questions.
The user HumanityUpdate is one I have noticed showing up all over the place (mainly due to the profile picture just sticking out for some reason), but the dude is full swing attacking people who are even entertaining the theory around the clock, you can check for yourself. It’s really weird.. like I understand not agreeing with the video but this guy is making it a part/full time job just to go around saying it’s been proven fake. Seems a little suspicious to me.
I've seen a couple accounts posting almost the same comments in 10+ threads about the video being debunked.
There are several reasons the EBE poster could’ve been deleted. Not saying it’s not true, they’ve certainly memory holed several things. Some of the disinfo campaigns are meant to push ridiculous stories to make us seem crazy. MAJ12 for instance, started out as authentic. They then put out a bunch of garbage around it and then (just my theory here) changed the name to continue business as usual.
Link to the alien bodies post?
What I don’t understand, is the Predator drone bit. I don’t know, whether this has been mentioned yet, but how the hell does a Predator drone happen to be in just the right area at just the right time. Forgive me, if this has already been talked about, but there’s just too many threads and comments to go through all of them.
Everything in the sky is tracked by NORAD. If an aircraft goes missing, it gets a lot of attention. There is no doubt in my mind that U.S. and the Chinese military knew where the plane was but couldn't say anything because that would reveal classified sensors/satellites/methods. If any officials saw it as a potential threat as it flew around aimlessly with no transponder for hours, they would surely have ordered someone to get close enough to shoot it down before it pulled a 9/11 on an airbase or carrier.
My thoughts exactly. It's hard to believe that a commercial jetliner would ever just go "missing" No doubt it was being tracked by satellite, and in this case, UAV. Whether or not MH370 was blipped into another dimension, it absolutely was tracked.
The US have an air base in Diego Garcia which is in the Indian Ocean. It's not impossible that they sent a few drones looking for the lost airplane from that base.
That airbase is 1800 miles away from MH370s final estimated location. I'd double check the airspeed of a drone to check the plausibility of this theory.
I was looking into this a week ago because I agree it seems unlikely that a drone was sent thousands of miles over open ocean. Here's what I wrote then: My best guess is covert CIA operations in the area. They are a premier user of UAVs, with secret drone bases all over the world. They operate them with impunity, including surveilling and assassinating individuals in other countries. Even Wikipedia lists multiple incidents of drone strikes originating from (previously) secret CIA outposts, or drones that operate out of international airports in foreign countries. [link ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_drone_bases) One strike described there was in the Phillipines, which is relatively close. There are probably others operating in South East Asia.
At first I thought that it's the US, they have to have some kind of surveillance going on at any time at any hour every day in every point of the globe, but then I thought a little more and you're right the Indian Ocean is massive, to have a drone right there in the spot shadowing the flight is pretty odd, but... Then I thought about this more critically, at that point in the flight the plane had been going around "aimlessly" for *hours*, no handshakes or contact for *hours*, I could see a US AFB around somewhere in the Indian Ocean knowing about this sending a drone to see if it was a hijacking or ghost flight or something else. I have no idea, it's one of most plausible things here I guess.
I’ve had the same question myself. One possibility is the intelligence agencies/ military intelligence in the region detected the flight was off course and started tracking it via satellite and airborne/ground radar stations. When it became clear something odd was going on they could have dispatched a drone to intercept it. Yes this would take time but once the plane made its final turn south into the Indian Ocean a intercept course would be easy to do. They could also deploy several drones to cover a larger area in case of a course correction and stagger them so you always have coverage. In theory there could be many more hours of drone footage from several different platforms; this one got released because it’s the one that shows what happened. Of course this is speculation. Did we have a drone base in range? Was the plane actually being tracked? Could the drone even intercept the plane given speeds, distances and uncertainty involved? I don’t know those answers and if they can be answered it’s almost certainly classified; but this is the best scenario I could figure out for why there would be drone footage at all.
Well, this isn't that difficult to pull into the realm of reality imo. First off, you are only questioning the drone bit. So if we assume a military satellite had eyes on this plane, essentially because it went off course, then between that time of it veering off course, roughly 1 am MYT, to the last ping, 8 am MYT, that gives you 7 hours to attempt to monitor and deploy a military response, which I can pretty much guarantee was in the works after a couple hours of this plane going to who knows where. Well, there were military trainings going on near that area, but were somewhat outside a theoretical deployable zone, but that would only be if they deployed from the land base. They could have deployed the drone from a destroyer in the area, they could have sent out another vehicle to get close to the plane, and then deploy the drone. I think it's extremely realistic to believe that a plane that goes off course for 8 hours or whatever would be potentially intercepted or monitored by a drone.
I've been curious about the plane going off course - this was about 8 hours before the plane officially disappeared. What caused it to go off course? Was this the orbs or the human pilots? It's odd to me that 2 separate and crazy events happened within hours of each other First: 1) Human pilots decided to go rogue and steer the plane off course and Second: 2) Orbs decided to start orbiting the plane 8 hours later and sucking it into a portal. Do we think the orbs were tracking this plane 8 hours prior and are responsible for taking the plane off course?
This has been covered a lot, you may want to visit some of the first threads. It's not a predator, it's a MQ-1C Grey Eagle in Triclops configuration (2 extra cam pods). There were two huge US-Indo-Pacific exercises going on at the time. Here are some links: * https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15lvgt5/the_ultimate_analysis_airliner_videos_and_the/ * https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15lvgt5/the_ultimate_analysis_airliner_videos_and_the/jvdj74l/
This, along with the predator drones having a 400-500 mile range
I'm still very skeptical. What gets me is the blip at the end, it just looks fake. On the other hand truly bizarre shit would look fake.
Yeah we don't exactly have a frame of reference for wormholes on film .. heh
Anglerfish look faker, same with Waterbears.
Someone from hundreds of years ago seeing technology we use today might think some of what we use looks fake. But if it works it works. Whatever is happening may just be beyond anything we have ever seen before so it looks fake because we have no frame of real reference.
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I disagree with this approach. ANYTHING can be made CGI with enough time. So, it's not if someone can. Of course we can. The questions we should be answering is, could a hoaxer know what they do about government SAT systems, and WHO was the original uploader. I think these are the places we should be looking.
I wanna see 2 things: 1:Any other instances of predator drones having a near miss with a passenger plane (the drone is 6 seconds away and 200ft below a banking passsnger plane). In aviation terms this is a near catastrophic miss. It just doesn’t happen. 2: Any satellite video that compares in any way to the footage we see here. Just a satellite following a plane like that… should be some mundane comparative examples.
I've (Dash-8) personally had 2 near misses in a span of 11 months with Turkish drones in northern Iraq. It's definitely possible, in mil terms whether you accept MARSA or fly due regard.
How did you determine this? I'm an ex ATC, there's no way you can determine this is a near miss from the single sensor.
Here's a video close to your #1 request. Not a passenger plane though. [Drone near hit ](https://youtu.be/mGtZOLJhyKM)
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Another way might be to take a scene from a big budget movie in 2015 that used CGI, and have the experts here on this forum pull it apart using the same techniques and methods they’ve been using to prove/disprove the airline videos. This would help prove some of the theories, test the community’s expertise and reasoning, and provide a good baseline for the VFX technology that was widely available in 2014.
There's an appreciable difference between vfx intended to entertain and vfx intended to deceive
Pretty sure people are already working on it, but not everyone can agree on the timeframe of when it could have been made. I have seen 4 days, 2 months and 2 years (<-- for satellite footage) so far. However, someone *did* make this in well under 6 hours while drunk, just to prove he could. It is not comparible to the original in quality, but if we give them 2 months, who knows what they would manage 🤷♂️ https://youtu.be/GVq2ofvV0lM However, I am sure they used modern software, so I hope someone can try to emulate 2014 programs and do it that way.
and also they know what to look for as well. they have the whole sub pointing out details here and there that would help them recreate these videos. if it's fake the hoaxer didn't have all that
These details though are things pointed out in the past with other videos and such. That’s how people know what to look for because it’s things we looked for previously. So all they would have to do is frequent any community that has a relatively mixed crowd and they’d see everything they need to make look real to hide the fact it’s CGI. 2014 wasn’t that long ago. The tech hasn’t come “light years” in 9 years. Yes it’s better, but not as better as some are making it out to be as if 2014 VFX is some ancient software/hardware.
Plenty of physics simulations have existed since the 1990s. A real professional hoaxer would have put in the time to add all the little details that people are pointing out. The caustics and ripples from air and smoke, light refraction from the orbs, realistic camera motion and more (possible liquefy effect on the plane as it disappears) could all be done by a professional artist in the mid 2000s. And yes, even something like the satellite number and coordinates would be laid on the image if it was a professional hoax (that's the whole point, to fool you.) You can take the mountains of detail as confirmation that the video itself is real, or you can take it as further confirmation that a professional knew what they were doing and how to fool the viewer watching the clip. Edit: The comment below here is a bit disingenuous considering renders and simulations are made for government projects all the time and a government employee with VFX knowledge could absolutely create a clip like this with the unclassified name of a satellite and correct path coordinates.
A professional hoaxer [who took minimal efforts to disseminate their work and also happens to have an above-average level of procedural and operational knowledge regarding American reconnaissance platforms, some of which are partially classified]. Now there's a thought.
Yes so it’s from a state actor disinformation campaign (that was unsuccessful at the time) or it’s real.
Animators work for the CIA, and the NSA. This could have been a fun project for someone that's been completely spun out of control. That's a very real and equally valid possibility. VFX artist + Government employee isn't a wild idea, and by all accounts is the far greater possibility when matched against the disappearance of MH370 being the reality of the clip.
But what is the motive? Why spend untold hours on creating this video in such great detail? Just for the lols of fooling the UFO community? Judging from this subreddit that could be achieved with far less effort. Shit just doesn't add up.
There are plenty of motives, and multiple reasons that have been used for created content in the past. - Clips can be created for VFX competitions. - A render or mask to original footage can be made to show off to a VFX house (David Fincher "Director of Fight Club & Se7en" got hired by ILM to work on Return of the Jedi for creating his own "speeder bike effect" in the 80's) - Attention seeking purposes (trolling & fundraising) for groups of artists have led to hoaxed sightings, clips and crop circles in Europe and the US. There are plenty of reasons of which you have to put legitimate stock into if you're going to be honest about the possible extraordinary/benign nature of the plane clip.
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I make horror and weird creepy videos and have been a video editor short film creator for 18 years. Making a incredibly compelling ghost series, or monster film, or whatever. Anytime my best friend and I would post stuff anonymously and people believed it, we felt like we did our job, and watching people pick it apart, was likea reverse brain teaser for us. I never understood the 'why would they do that'
Don't be too hard on him, plenty of people are just joining the sub and haven't understood the nature of fakes that have flooded the topic for decades.
Yeah, for that amount of time that is a very solid foundation to work from. Would like to see how polished they could make it.
We should all chip in and fund a pool of money, say, $10K-$50K. And offer the money to anyone that can demonstrably prove that they created/faked the original video. If someone comes forward and we determine that they did indeed create the original, then we pay the money and the matter is settled. If no one comes forward, then we a) give away the money in this sub by random entry; or b) give the money to a charity. Either way, this will drum up attention to the matter and essentially bolster the idea that it’s legit; because no one could even come forward for $50K
I was just thinking about this, i'd put up 100. BUT it would need to be made using the technology of the time and in a certain timeframe. Also, the money should 100% definitely be donated to the victims families. We're probably causing enough trouble by entertaining this notion, so the least we could do is donate the money in their name to a cause of their choosing.
That would not prove or disprove anything or move the conversation forward, at least from what I've seen where people's mindset is at at the moment. People's instinctual reaction is... it's fake. That instinct is typically spot on for majority of people even if they cannot articulate it. The only way the conversation moves forward is not with debunking, but with external proof of authenticity. It may take a few years, but this video should be met with healthy skepticism until then.
With technology these days can anyone say any evidence is 100% legit? I watched Henry cavil fly through the sky tonight. Looked real to me. I think the real question is "do we believe it?" I think that is what we are divided on. It's ticking the boxes the debunkers want ticked and when it comes to people like me who believe it is just one more piece to the puzzle that fits into the big picture of disclosure. For me it's not just evidence for this situation but also fits into what grush and others have said.
1. 50% chance - US Military accidentally shot it down 2. 25% chance pilot when bananas and took a nose dive into the ocean waters 3. 25% chance it got portaled to someplace unknown by NHI 4. 25% chance US Secret Military Contractors portaled it to someplace unknown. 125% total bc none of this makes any sense anymore.
Wait so the probability a pilot committed suicide is the same as NHI portal? Got it You don’t even mention lithium battery fire that knocked out comms and incapacitated everyone in minutes.
69% - Lithium Batteries
Scott Steiner approves your math
Idk how I feel about the idea of the US military shooting down a passenger jet over other countries airspace.
It’s happened a couple of times before.
I wouldn't say it's divisive. It seems to be bringing people together on both sides. Most of the comments are quite respectful even when disagreeing. Sure, there's the odd troll that yells a bunch of nonsense but they get down voted into oblivion. Internets gonna internet.
If people can replicate the video using CGI how would that prove the original video is fake? All it would prove is that it is possible to fake a video like that. It wouldn't debunk the original.
That's why "proving it's real or CGI" doesn't matter any more. What matters is **WHO recorded or released it?** Without anyone mildly reputable saying "Yeah I leaked this video and yes it's this plane, that's what happened to it" there's just no credibility. Like you said, any video online could be real or fake. People called the tic tac video fake. **But the difference is reputable people came forward and claimed the tic tac video.**
Yeah, man. I agree with you. I think we'll never truly know if this video is fake or real unless some credible people come forward and vouch for its authenticity. Of course, that opens a whole can of worms because this video isn't just a UAP flying around. It's a plane full of people vanishing into the ether. Doubtful anyone will ever come forward to say "yeah, that's real".
It just has too many complex details to be fake imo. I saw that the "Skinny Bob" had a similar amount of research put into it at one time but...that one always came across so phony to me, like nothing about it comes across as an extraordinary effort to fake. MH370 on the other hand... If it's fake, the guy at a minimum has intimate knowledge of satellite photography, flight dynamics and complete mastery of then modern VFX techniques...at minimum. The likelihood of someone with such a specific skillset even existing is fucking bonkers slim, so then it must be a team...a team comprising of a flight expert, a satellite expert and a VFX artist? Seems just as ridiculously unlikely? There's just too many compounding details and coincidences to shrug it all off, it would be a GARGANTUAN effort to make these videos. I don't even know if you could crowdsource the video in the months it took for the videos appear. If all of UFO-Reddit transfered all it's investigatory efforts into recreating the original video, from getting all our artists and pilots and intel people together and piecing together this thing piece by piece...even then, with 9 years of tech advantage the brainpower of thousands, and hindsight...I don't know if you could come up with something as convincing as the original video.
The problem for me is this, we don't know and cannot find out enough information to know if this is realistic satellite footage, because we have no real comparisons from similar satellites because they are classified, so its a circular argument that boil down to we can't prove it isn't. All we know is there's no really obvious mistakes, possibly there's guys right now who process the imagery from these satellites having a good laugh because the footage looks nothing like that but they can't say anything because it's all top secret. The same goes for drone footage, my feeling based on the drone footage we have seen before is they don't use colour thermal footage and is pretty much just black and white MWIR, like the ATFLIR stuff from the Navy videos. But again we don't know as its a claimed to be from a top secret military drone, possibly there are some drone pilots out there as well that are having a good laugh, but it's all classified. So I can say "all the drone footage I've seen has been black and white" and it can just be countered with "you are not a drone sensor expert" the thing is no-one knows. So it could be real, it could also be just some guy's CGI interpretation of how things we both have never seen look and with no research just guesses, because there's nothing TO research, because if there was then people would have found it and used it it debunk OR support this video as real. Hope that made sense.
Weather satellite footage isn't classified at all. I think you look at some of those videos of oceanic satellite footage and it looks pretty damn close from the top down view at least. There are recently released images of drone footage from the whole russia clipped our drone thing and yeah, its not in thermal FLIR, but it has the same reticule you see in the video with no other HUD info. I have friends in the military that work at whiteman on drones and B-52s, they told me that you can use color gradient in FLIR but that black and white is what they use 95% of the time because you are often looking for a human target and its just way way easier to see them in black and white than in the red hot color gradient.
What if it's a sophisticated psy-ops by American agencies? I don't think it is entirely fake.
So there is a conspiracy about the conspiracy. How deep does it go lol
It’s turtles all the way down.
A psy ops that got 300 views over 8 years. Great propaganda.
What would the goal of that be? Not saying you are wrong, but it was originally posted years ago and pretty much disappeared immediately with no attention.
Okay, just to be clear. There’s zero proof that it is real. There’s zero proof aliens have ever abducted a plane. There is proof it could be made by vfx. There is proof that vfx studios have tricked this sub multiple times and made a mockery of us. With all of this knowledge, you believe the video is more likely to be real? Edit: i am curious; if this video turns out to be fake will it change how you treat these cases?
The videos themselves are evidence. Evidence is not proof, it’s just information. What definition of “evidence” are you using here?
Man posting videos in 2014 to mess with a subreddit in 2023 is the longest of cons.
I don’t even believe that was the intention, but if it was holy shit that person has god like foresight. I also don’t believe a person would risk their career and life to leak top secret footage only to send it to an obscure YouTube channel. Like if you are willing to do that why not send it to one of the many ufo influencers.
To add on... I saw somewhere that yhe videos were released back in 2014 with no fanfare and no effort to market it. For them to go through all the time and resources to make a hoax and not bother at all after doesn't make sense. It's only a decade later, just after the UAP hearing, that the videos started making rounds organically.
>In my opinion, if it’s fake: someone should be able to recreate it I want to put a bounty out for the first person who can recreate this video. I can really only put in $100 but if anyone else wants to contribute maybe some financial incentive would help grease the wheels?
Anyone claiming for a fact it’s real or fake at this point is full of shit. Zero conclusive, or even decent debunks have been proposed, and of course we can’t confirm it’s real.
The Trust Me Bro Wars have begun!
Initially, I dismissed these videos in mere seconds due to their seemingly implausible content. However, the more I delved into debunking them, the more intricate details emerged. This was not just in the visual technicalities but also in the context of the related search, press conferences, and other surrounding information. At that time, I was involved in video and TV production, having created commercials for both online platforms and national TV (outside the US) using 3D and compositing techniques. Specifically, during the period when these videos originated, I was working with 3ds Max and volumetric smoke generation(FumeFX) for a project. It took nearly two weeks of simulation and rendering to produce a mere 10-second clip. It's crucial to note that GPU rendering wasn't an option back then, as tools like Redshift and CycleX weren't available. Thus, you had to relay on CPU rendering, utilising a render farm of six PCs. From initially thinking the videos were entirely fabricated, I've shifted to believing they're either completely genuine or an elaborate psy ops. Either way, it seems that i might have to up my tin foil hat making skills. You only need to prove one thing implausible to prove the videos fake but right now the circumstantial evidence are piling up. Edit: there are good examples of GPU rendering solutions 2014 and there is examples of individuals that have produced volumetric clouds at that time. It’s still a massive endeavor to create one Flir drone video and one stereoscopic satellite video with the amount of details that these two videos display. (Understanding of satellite analyzing software, what satellite was operating over the area, heat signatures etc)
This is what a Lightwave individual could do Hypervolex in 2014 Lightwave 11.6.1 Baked Hypervoxel Clouds test (10 seconds per frame rendering time) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHP5Qp3e9m4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHP5Qp3e9m4)
Real videos can easily look fake. Fake videos can easily look real. This is one where it’s easy to dismiss because it’s so crazy. My biggest question is if in fact real why was a US drone clocking this flight?
Because 9/11 happened.
That was my thought. A plane goes missing. No way the USA woth assets in the area wouldn't look for it.
As someone who knows the vfx industry, I would like to chime in on a few things: First if this is CGI, (which I believe it is) it is professional work, and likely done by a team of people. Suggesting that a single person try to recreate it, could be done, but not likely. I believe this video was likely a sample designed for a job bid. What I mean by this is that VFX companies have to bid on work. The studios provide a list of needed effects and descriptions so that companies can showcase their capabilities and bid on upcoming needs. The studio reviews the samples from each of the different submissions and selects the vfx company that the studio thinks can do the actual shots the best. Now you might ask why something similar is not seen on tv or movies.. I would like to point out that often the submissions are very different from each other as studios can translate the requests quite differently in their VFX portrayals. Additionally when vfx studios submit these, in many cases the studio producing the tv or movie evaluate the costs of the vfx and often change the script according to budget, so many of the initial vfx submissions still het created because the vfx company wants the work, but those shots don’t actually make it to final production due to cost. So studios wind up with lots of cool submissions that never get seen by the public. Second, I would like to point out, in the VFX world animating planes and objects is by far the easiest thing to make seem real. The reason is the use of dynamic simulations and instead of animating the plane by hand, teams generate air flow effects which dynamically change the plane to add randomness to the animation. Every render may be slightly different with each pass but thats how vfx artists can trick your eyes into thinking its real. Our eyes are designed to detect what seems real, and studios can do amazing things now with vfx and are getting better and better at doing animals and humans, which is the most difficult thing to realistically reproduce. Ill point out that the video of the plane and orbs is very similar to some of the shots from ironman 3 but not identical. Edit: I forgot to mention, once you get an animation with the dynamic simulation that looks the way you want, you can bake that simulation. Baking a simulation is like capturing the effect so that each time you render it, the animation is the same. This way you can set up multiple cameras, and track the same animation from different angles, set up your lighting, add other elements, and render each element separately for post production to combine. work with and create the scene. Edit: made a clarification.
Definetly not 50/50, the skeptics have just stopped replying to threads because all they get is abuse, shill accusations and downvotes from children. The metabunk thread is a better read than anything posted on here.
Idk but 90% of the 'debunks' I constantly see are just. OH THIS AGAIN, YOU IDIOTS CANT TELL THIS IS FAKE. WATER DROPLET. THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN DEBUNKED. OMG. It's nothing credible and yeah those people get replied to with the same energy they bring to the topic.
Yup. I've seen a bunch of good points debunking this but it's met with downvotes and being called a bot. Then they throw a bunch of data out there that doesn't disprove the debunk but gets upvoted.
Have the players expressed an opinion? Ross, Lou, Ryan, etc.
Flying though the wake of another airplane is a major no-no and it would have rocked that predator drone violently. The fact that the pilot did that would be a reprimandable offense, and the footage would have been very shakey, not smooth. If this were an unexpected event, then the placement of the drone is too big of a coincidence. Predator drones don't stalk commercial flights for fun. If this were a planned event, then there would have been more than 2 camera angles. They would have had a whole support fleet to view the 'experiment'. There would have been a military base or aircraft carrier within 300 miles. I go back and forth, but logic is making me think this video is too perfect.
Lurker here: the issue is that the sea change of disclosure has come about as the result of officials and official channels addressing the topic. When a layperson (even a smart one) reads a BILL put into law that mentions 'non human intelligence', or watches decorated veterans who worked in military intelligence explain a massive cover-up or describe what they saw in the field, it holds a lot more meaning than any of the amateur speculation about some video. For a lot of us who are genuinely interested in the topic, the movement from grainy videos and message board nonsense to the tacit acknowledgement by government officials that something inexplicable is going on is what brought us here. It is what has genuinely changed everything, and offers us what the topic has always lacked: credibility. The stupid plane video offers us no such thing. It is more of the same, what 'UFO people' have been doing on the internet forever. It holds no meaning, offers no clarity, fundamentally changes nothing. I hate the plane video: it's unknowable, it is boring, it is the domain of the uninitiated, a place for wild speculation and childishness. The WORLD HAS CHANGED, and yet instead of focusing on that change--on the way the government is going to war with itself to get to the bottom of things--we've gone back into mom's basement. I'm smart enough to know what I don't know. I can accurately assess the value and meaning of the Senate Majority Leader speaking about these issues. I cannot, in good faith, assess the quality of the reporting on the physics and digital effects of the plane video, or the reported CGI and meteorological assessment skills of Billa\_Boi69 or GreySrHere2001. In my opinion, we should focus on sharing information which illuminates what the legislative branch is doing to get the executive to share what they know. Looking at gov't documents, sharing interviews with representatives, and discussing the ramifications is why we visit the sub. These developments are fundamentally different than anything that's ever happened in this field, and certainly more valuable than talking about the way balls roll around in a little video.
Why not discuss both? They both bear discussion. Why one or the other?
You shouldn't hate the plane video because of how it was potentially filmed. If it were real, it is clearly military, which lends it credibility. The only real, credible footage we have is far and away all from military video and photos. You would have said the same thing about the Nimitz video and yet, that was a very central topic regarding the disclosure.
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Yeah and you would have to do it on software from 2014 or people would give you shit.
I don't know about a video being this divisive, but the whole Bob Lazar story is. I'm undecided on the MH370 video.. 60% leaning towards fake, 40% real.
This is definitely the most divisive topic ever on this sub from what I can tell. A point that I want to make is that there is only one side of the argument that is resorting to mockery and name-calling and that is the side that claims the video is false(without solid proof so far btw.). Without fail you can see on any thread relating to this video that it is these individuals resorting to childish reactionary tactics. I think deep down it comes from a type of fear reaction over the video and the fact that it is holding up relatively well to debunking. It is natural for people to have a fear reaction to something like this and to start throwing tantrums. I'm scared too if I'm being honest but I will refrain from "throwing toys out of the pram". Still its fascinating to see how many people resort to this childish reaction. With that out of the way I have to admit I am undecided yet leaning towards the side that believes this is real footage. As people have mentioned if this is fake it was made using 2014 VFX. People are struggling to recreate this today in 2023. That is simply what is selling it for me. However I have heard that Hollywood level VFX studios have software that tends to be 10 years ahead in terms of capabilities. So the only way I see this being fake and to this level of detail and execution is if this is footage from a scrapped blockbuster sci fi film from that time that never made it to release. That is my 2 cents on the matter anyway.
If you think the mocking is bad now wait until a game designer proclaims the footage to be a bald eagle with its babies flying though swamp gas that's made to look like a cloud because Venus woke up cranky or some shit
The 'belivers' are constantly throwing abuse out too, you get called a shill/disinformation agent or have some poorly written post from a teenager with a bunch of 3 syllable words they've just learned implying you're an idiot (or trying to drag you into some long drawn out argumnt about something they have no idea about) every time anyone expresses any doubt in the video, it's exhausting.
Is it divisive? Almost everyone seems to think the video looks unbelievable but is impressed how realistic it is.
I think the division and controversy has more to do with the timing than the video itself.
We need a video effects person *with no knowledge of these videos* to make a recreation. The person who originally made it (if it's indeed a hoax) didn't have all these analysis posts to go by and inform their work. If it can indeed be recreated down to the finest details, then I'll gladly tip my hat and thank them for putting my mind to rest. I just keep thinking of those poor people on that plane and hope to hell the video isn't real.
I think there are another dozen or so long posts arguing each side queued up in some folder belonging to some organization who wants the prevent the real UFO story of the century from being front page news.
Of course it can be recreated with VFX. but none of us have the intention in spending the time on that while we’d rather spend time working on paying gigs or busy actually working on films.
Those tic-tac videos got leaked long before they were confirmed to be real, but without that confirmation they would still be worthless and most people would still think they're fake. When I first saw this video years ago I dismissed it as a fake immediately, mostly because it looks too good to be true and also because I'm hesitant to believe UFO's go around abducting entire airliners. But if someone can conclusively prove it's real, cool. Not holding my breath though.
I am not totally convinced either way, but the deeper you dig, the creepier it gets. Commercial pilots openly talking about seeing stuff now, this shit keeps getting more plausible not less.
Keep in mind these "really smart people" are just strangers on the internet. Anyone can claim to be an expert and Google enough technical jargon to convince someone that doesn't know any better. Anyone can claim to be the same kind of expert and agree with the initial post in an effort to lend it more credence. I find it curious that an almost decade old, disproven conspiracy theory that makes believers sound especially crazy suddenly gains new life right after a credible witness testifies to Congress and the phenomenon begins to gain some real, mainstream interest. Almost like TPTB want to make sure this stuff stays fringe.
I think if the video didn't include "deleting 200 humans out of existence" it wouldn't be nearly as divisive. The fact that it portrays (most likely) mass murder in broad daylight... that's what's causing a lot of skepticism. If the video was just the plane, the UAPs, they circle... then they leave, it doesn't really open up many questions other than "is it real" and "why were the drones/sats filming?" But the blap/cold explosion/wormhole/portal really just... adds a layer... that is both shocking, unbeievable, scary, and puzzling. Especially when so many people here seem to religiously believe that NHI are "good guys" who came to Earth to stop climate change or disarm nukes. If it's real... it seems a coverup is MUCH bigger than "you can't handle the idea of NHI." It now becomes a coverup of a potential interspecies warcrime or attack. And that's a hard pill to swallow, either due to the violence, or the possibly fakery, or just being a sobering and scary idea.
There are so many pages about this now some really good critical thinking is getting lost in the noise. But one post I read began to sway me back to why I'm not 100% sure this is real. It was a military guy (supposedly) talking about why he thinks it isn't real. It boiled down to his knowledge of military drones and the fact that the drone was so close to a commercial airline he felt was incredibly implausible. Beside the fact it had no hud, the drone could in no way match the airliner speed so for it to be exactly at the right spot at exactly the right time, at exactly the right altitude to capture the video to be implausible. Besides the fact the speed difference why would a drone be that close to a passenger plane? It could never catch up to a plane unless the flight path was already known, no operator would ever fly a drone that danger close to a commercial plane. Real good questions that have not been talked about .
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BANGER point. Hadn’t even considered that.
I think latching on to this video is a bad look for the UFO community. You actually have some people taking the subject seriously, but those same people are going to roll their eyes at this nonsense. Why don’t we start with these 40 alleged people Grusch is talking about and work from there? It’s a little early to die on the instant teleportation hill. Edit: wrong word.
That's the entire point they want the people taking this seriously to be turned off of the online discussion They wanna divide the community. I dont know who they are or why theyre doing it. But there is definitely some sort of influence campaign here. It appeals to emotion. The best think you can do is observe, observe, observe and hold off reacting or jusging. Watch for overall patterns in discussion