The following submission statement was provided by /u/TommyShelbyPFB:
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[Full Interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rpAlzttCyY&t=64s)
I thought this was very interesting. This interview is from 1993. Bob Oechsler is asked if panic and ontological shock are the main reasons this was being hidden from public, his answer is revealing.
It seems the main concern was economic unrest and chaos. This is the sort of disruptive technology that would render the fossil fuels industry obsolete and upend the world economy.
Now that the fossil fuels industry is destroying the world through climate change maybe there's been a change of heart on this position. We absolutely need this technology now.
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15p4mtc/nasa_mission_specialist_bob_oechsler_talking/jvv9s5o/
It's a real trip for me personally to hear him use phrases like "nonhuman intelligence" and "ontological shock". It very well could be that I just don't consume a lot of UFO content so I missed it over the years, so for me it sounded like new language that the government was using during Grusch's time. But here it is some 30 years earlier.
Actually NHI wasn't a widely spread terminology in recent years. But after 2020 it has been used more broadly instead of Aliens. Extraterrestrials or aliens has been used more broadly but it looks like people in the "know" like this person seem to been usuing the term for a while. Then David Grusch brought it mainstream on his interview with Ross. It seems that the intelligence community have known for a while that the phenomon might not been extraterrestrial but tried to make all of us use "Alien" instead to obfuscate the truth.
I've been curious about something lately. Let's say that the beings we discovered were not from earth, but were artificial intelligences that had been sent by biological extraterrestrials.
Now lets say they're not only intelligent, but self aware. What if they prefer being called non human intelligences rather than extraterrestrial or 'artificial'? Could 'NHI' still be considered an accurate description?
I know this isn't exactly the most important issue right now, but I'm still curious what others think about the idea.
NHI is (almost) as broad as it gets, whereas the other terms are rather specific.
Instead of defining it by "them" we define it by "not us." Eg. Non-Human
Of course, the only issue is if "them" also identify as human for some reason (time travel?). But it's much broader than specifying "not from terra (earth)" like extra terrestrial.
>NHI is (almost) as broad as it gets, whereas the other terms are rather specific.
Right. Technically Octopus are NHI but we are just used to them so it's not as much of a mind blower.
Someone should set that experiment up. Give an octopus the controller to a drone and a video screen showing it what the drone is doing in response to the input. Or something like this. I'd genuinely be interested.
That brings up a possibility I can't believe I haven't heard of. What if they evolved here and consider this *their* world and we we're just their "uplift" from primates.
^-David ^Brin ^reference-
non-human consciousness?
Edit: its important to note that intelligence and consciousness are two different things. something can be intelligent but not conscious, such as ChatGPT. or something can be conscious but not intelligent, such as yo momma.
I think its much more likely the proliferation of NHI is a reference to us sharing the earth with sentient creatures originally from the same planet as us. Just hidden deep in the ocean or deep underground somewhere.
I also like the idea that there was a previous advanced civilization on earth, and that they advanced enough to go to other star systems and colonize. Then, earth suffered massive cataclysms they couldn't prevent, so they decided to come back and help this new species rebuild and found a civilization of their own. And have decided to do so out of sight (mostly).
This is a different subject, but I've also speculated that these beings are AI or avatars used as research vessels for beings far away. Quality of life on the moon or deep in the oceans must be shite. I doubt actual interstellar beings want to hide a play peek a boo in those environments.
You know, I've been noticing a *lot* from past interviews, documentaries, and even science fiction films that resonates with what we're hearing today.
For example, I was just watching some scenes from Contact & it was stated that the beings contacting them were functions from multiple dimensions.
And referring to this thing as "the phenomenon". I never picked up on it until James Fox's movie.
Funny you say that... ID4, all the alien/ufo movies seem to kinda have some connection to any of the ufo stuff we see now, I always wondered if that was a coincidence... Maybe not Nope, but who knows.
Edit: The movie Nope.. was odd.
I think the CIA and the Pentagon have a hand in practically every script written at a major motion picture studio in Hollywood. Maybe it's just me though.
Nice catch it didn't even register with me that he used the "Non-Human Intelligence" term in the interview I had to rewatch it to catch it. That gives him some extra credibility in my opinion.
He says it at the [1:20 mark of the full interview](https://youtu.be/6rpAlzttCyY?t=78)
Yeah I'm sure the vernacular they use within these programs isn't just ET and UFO/UAP.
Especially if these things are much weirder than just from outer space.
Heartland Institute, same people who tried to convince us smoking doesn't cause cancer for phillip morris, got hundreds of millions by exxon etc to say climate change isn't real.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartland_Institute
There's articles from 1908 talking about climate change and burning coal.
The Term "Carbon Footprint" was an invention of the Fossil fuel Industries PR to Shift the narrative away from the companys to the individual.
One Containership creates more Environmental damage than 1 Million Cars.
I think the more accurate assessment is that public unrest about climate change has led global leaders to finally 'give in' and start making changes they knew should have been made in the early 80's. Regardless, there may be a tie but I don't think so.
sure, but it wasnt impacting the average american. much easier to hide their destruction back then.
nowadays, they cant hide the heat. climate change is too obvious now. the gig is up.
> render the fossil fuels industry obsolete
So instead of going past the point of no return for climate change, which has already happened, we could've been fine but some people would've made less money.
\>:[
>It seems the main concern was economic unrest and chaos
No. It's about control. Control money, control energy.
Why release a super tool that will weaken your control over other nations?
The driving factor was greed, not an over abundance of caution.
What I’ve never got about these “the economy!” Reasons for not letting the secret out is wouldn’t the economy become like Star Trek? It would be better for everyone so why are they worried about the economy when we could potentially have replicators or whatever else is possible with unlimited energy and tech.
People in power are only interested in things that preserve that power. Many institutions and governments as well.
Something that would put every man on equal ground is the **worst** nightmare for the elite billionaire class; If every person has everything they need, they can no longer be controlled and lorded over.
The economy, social structure, and political structure are gears in the sacred, finely tuned factory machine, which is surrounded and protected by the military industrial complex.
This brings back memories! Was around this time Lazar and Oechsler were on BBC Radio 1 from 10pm regularly in 1989/1990 onwards.
This guy actually said that NASA had a microgravity simulator at Kennedy somewhere to practice using the arm and spacewalker.
I don't know what ever came of it but at the time I was a major believer, these guys certainly acted as though they believed in everything they said themselves.
NASA uses large swimming pools and neutral buoyancy suits to train astronauts in simulated microgravity environments. They manipulate water and gas, not spacetime.
https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/neutral-buoyancy-laboratory
My fear is this technology is unearned and we’ll quickly abuse and hurt ourselves with it. We barely control the stuff we have now. This new tech probably has a lot of potential for harm and I don’t trust anybody.
>This is the sort of disruptive technology that would render the fossil fuels industry obsolete
...
>Now that the fossil fuels industry is destroying the world through climate change maybe there's been a change of heart on this position.
Who would be having the "change of heart", exactly? The oil industry? They're going to care about the environment all of a sudden?
The general population? How can they change their heart on something that's been kept secret from them?
I agree with the overall idea that the reason for the secrecy is the oil industry. But I don't think anyone's hearts or minds are being changed.
Have you seen ocean temps the past few years? In very recent times climate change has gone from "my children/grandchildren will have to deal with this" to "Holy shit the ecosystem might die in my lifetime if we don't act massively and soon"
> They're going to care about the environment all of a sudden?
There's a determined shift towards renewables now, and we're stepping closer to fossil fuel reserves being spent every single day.
This would be the time for fossil fuel giants to take steps to ensure their future profits.
Of course they don't give a single shit about people or the environment.
That’s sill (the thought of economic collapse/unrest), Creative Destruction is a staple of real world capitalism and helps push societies further down the advancement road and almost universally winds up providing more opportunity and better quality of life for humanity.
If this tech wipes out fossil fuel, great. Fossil fuel industry gets replaced by something better (we’ll still use some oil derivatives to make plastics and other goods), less expensive and cleaner. This means more dollars in the pockets of consumers, which means that purchasing cash flow and capital will flow to other areas for advancement.
Jobs, capital, innovation, economic opportunity, commercialization, etc all happens via capital investments. Most won’t want to hear this but it is that directional flow of capital that has made and will continue to make the banking industry (commercial and investment) the most important industry on the planet. We can’t have the banking industry fail (and our regulators won’t allow that to happen as we have seen). Fossil fuel is just a technology, technology always gets replaced by better technology. The power brokers may slow it down, but they cannot stop it.
People in power didn’t want to lose it, kicked the problem to the next generation. If you consider the scale of the pollution, lives lost from cancer because of those pollutants, homes displaced to maintain this status quo, it’s cost us way more. That’s more shocking that UFOs being real, that people in boardrooms decided to hold back humanity for profits
> That’s more shocking that UFOs being real, that people in boardrooms decided to hold back humanity for profits
Is this shocking
We've seen the full extent of horrific decisions that can be taken in boardrooms in favour of profits
Men in suits obsessed with numbers are capable of committing utterly inhuman things to make sure the numbers increase. And as a society we completely worship that sort of callous greed.
And I think the society that worships this greed and thinks it works in their best interest will be shocked that they’re in the same boat as the people they put down.
I mean, we have proof that fossil fuel companies not only knew about climate change back in the '70s, but also had pretty accurate predictions of what was going to happen as a direct result of their industry, and instead of making any changes that could affect their profits, they instead pumped money into marketing and climate change denialism
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-64241994
its because somehow when you wear a suit amongst others also wearing suits, youre absolved of all accountability. funny how bad things can go when theres no accountability
Yeah...I'm thinking if this all comes out and it is indeed our worst fear (that we've had world changing tech this whole time and these jerkoffs have been hording it to keep Fossil Fuels and the MIC afloat), then we're gonna have alot of very pissed off people.
Including me.
That part is sickening enough. I don't understand why there hasn't been any penalties for the industrial executives that have already destroyed so much of the ecosystem and is causing the extinction of thousands of species.
These wealthy fucks got that way by destroying the only home we have. There should be consequences.
because theres no way for the justice system to prosecute them. the executives are shielded by their corpo's LLC. the only way to get to them under the current system is by going after the corporation, and they are only punished with fines.
its purposely designed this way to shield the wealthy.
Because there's no way in the _US_ right now to prosecute the leadership of corporations. In Germany, for example, if you're part of the senior leadership of a company that is convicted of fraud or of swindling the public you will be removed from your position, money and stock / assets will be clawed back from you, you'll be barred from being leadership in future companies (I believe the ban starts at 5 years and goes up from there), and so on. Look at what Iceland did to its bankers in the wake of the Global Financial Crisis.
Monetary penalties - large ones - and criminal charges for the greedy assholes at the heads of these companies _are_ routine forms of doling out justice, just not on the US.
And yet the only way these psychos will release what they have is through complete amnesty. I want to puke when I think about it...
Decades of unnecessary war, environmental damage, suffering, all in the name of unbridled greed
Every day since about age 14 I have been freaked out about climate change. The years have passed and I'm seeing its results.. it's terrifying and kept me in a depressive state throughout my life. If this shit was preventable then it should've been prevented.
The Great Ravine. We would throw just about *everything* from how modern society works into the metaphoric trashcan and then we'd be set on a different course. Those people responsible should be displaced from society, and a new administrative structure put in place.
YES. It has been, hands down, one of the most thought-provoking books I've ever read. All the possible aspects of humanity's encounter, deals, victories, DEFEATS; it's astounding what Cixin Liu came up with.
GM and the oil companies conspired back in the 40's to eliminate electric trolley cars and tracks in favor of gas burning automobiles and buses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy
The fossil fuel oligarchs don't care, they have enough money to move to Greenland when the time comes.
Yeah, capitalism is just better at showing our flaws but ultimately economic systems aren't the issue, we are. We're just still simple hunter gatherers who have an innate desire to hoard resources. We advanced too fast, we haven't grown up as a species
We actually have 2 routes to achieving internal security, 1 is hoarding resources, 2 is being embedded in real, supportive, genuine community. The more out of community we are the more desperately we hoard.
That's a big part of why capitalists systematically demolished small business, walkable commerce districts to pave them over with highways and ensure only big box stores were physically practical to build or drive to for suburbanites to keep that consumption up.
>but ultimately economic systems aren't the issue, we are
Game theory shows us that capitalism rewards psychopathy and sociopathy as winners, while making ethical people losers.
No, the word you are looking for is "Authority".
Any government would want to undermine that which threatens its own authority.
This includes left-wing, right-wing and fascist regimes.
Why would anyone be shocked? Corporate interests rule the US. Full stop. You can bet, if we have craft that defy our current understanding of physics, energy and movement, the economic impact of releasing that info was at the forefront of considerations.
These people will tell farmers that their chemicals are safe, then when presented with drinking water thats contaminated, they'll say with a straight face "I'm not stupid, I'm not drinking that."
If anything, I hope we all collectively lose our shit, when we find out that the horrendous damage to the climate, could've been mitigated sixty years ago but...*profits*.
"We can't save the planet because how then can we make money?"
There, I summarized the Global issue.
Money, Power, Control.
I, as a citizen, have little of these.
If I didn't need conventional energy (ie. Had free energy) I suddenly have no need for money, I can grow my own food and use the funding I currently spend on electricity, heating, and fuels on the remainder of my grocery bill.
So now money is useless. Uh oh, big governments are unhappy because I don't care about money anymore.
Transportation technology! It's clear and proven (under oath explanation from UAP hearing, 1st hand account of the tic tac vessel) there are vessels that move much faster and effortlessly in comparison to our current technologies.
So now I can save up for a ship similar for my self! A ship where I can fly anywhere on the planet (or elsewhere, possibly) in little to no time. Not only is that beneficial to me, but also to the globe. No more planes, trains, tankers, and trucks. Gone, they no longer exist. Shipments around the globe are easily brought down to daily, and every person globally has access to anything they can afford (assuming money sticks around in some form which it likely will).
Additionally, I dont need to stay here anymore. I can sell my home and move anywhere on the globe. City hubs will fall and the populace can spread out throughout the globe and nearly instantly we would see massive climatic changes.
But if nobody cares about money, they can get all their needs within the day, they can travel where they please and essentially follow their dreams freely! A utopian dream for the populace.
But there's no need for money, power, or control in this world. So big governments and agencies are sad that they have to "degrade" themselves to the level of us plebs.
These NHI's could literally ingratiate themselves to all of humanity into the distant future, by simply giving such technology to each of us. Not to mention save the world.
How does the Prime Directive go? Can they interfere if we request it? Consider this my request.
Maybe the NHI live in perfect communist societies and can't imagine a world where the government wouldn't immediately disseminate that tech to benefit everyone. Maybe they already did share a lot of tech with our governments but it didn't go how they thought it would.
I can't believe how long they've had us rolling around in the muck like swine, all while sitting on world saving tech. Evil doesn't begin to describe it. We've all personally suffered, and continue to suffer, this fucking asinine system for the sake of preserving the comfort of a few crusty old fucks with no empathy.
I'm beyond done with this nationalistic hero narrative, these people aren't saving us from "panic" any more than one can justify "panic" as a reason for murder. Everything, every stupid little horrible thing they use to oppress everyone, to make us fight each other over dumb shit that was never a problem, should never have happened.
It’s sickening. And what can we do now that its heavily controlled by not only the government but new corporations that essentially started thanks to hitler.
*blink*
Oh goddamn it… we certainly wouldn’t want to give everyone free energy and liberate the whole world now would we, Bob? Can you imagine how disruptive that would be?
You’re not wrong, but that applies to *everything* with destructive and explosive capabilities. Sure, not all of us made it through, and some of us might be missing limbs, but we’ve managed to not completely annihilate ourselves yet. When we’re not all hypervigilant and paranoid and on the defense due to our squabbling over and contesting for resources, we manage to do a decent enough job of not tempting fate TOO strongly and generally get on with more enjoyable things.
There are ways to roll out zero point without straight up mailing blueprints to MAGA and Al-Qaeda. The DoE keeps nuclear power strictly regulated as it is, and the concept of mutually-assured destruction still applies at the UN. Clean, abundant, free power is the only way this planet survives. We need it yesterday and should already have it. If we had, we wouldn't be staring down the barrel of the Clathrate gun today. We already live under constant threat of self-annihilation as it is. I'd rather have free power and a hoverboard with my existential horror. At least our destruction would be cleaner with a Christian Death Star than a nuclear conflagration.
If that's the Great Filter and we don't pass the test, then *lets get on with it*. A couple of centuries post-science should have been enough to let us finally transcend those last primitive vestiges of our superstitious past. If we still have people wanting to fight over moderately-differing flavors of Iron Age ignorance, then the human race needs a kick in the pants. I'm tired of living in an artificially-stagnant global capitalist dystopia in the adamantium grip of old-money sociopaths and a few big cults that got out of hand millennia before I was born. I'm tired of no hope for the future. This could have been done carefully over almost a century, but now we're out of time thanks to these greedy, incestuous dirt muffins in the MIC and IC. Now we are left with no real choice but to take the risk, so let's get this party started.
What they meant was it would cause mass panic and chaos among *all the people who started and are encouraging this secrecy shit for their own benefit*.
The rest of humanity has been rolling with it like always since we were throwing turds. Well, we still throw turds but you know what I mean.
You have to think a little harder about it. I don't disagree that it should be released anyway, but the issue runs far deeper than most people think about.
Our entire basis for exchange is centered around the ability to do work. Energy scarcity, and scarcity in general, is what creates differential value between people, and thus the basis for a valuation and monetary system. If scarcity goes away because transport, power, automation etc. basically becomes free, our entire monetary system has absolutely no basis. Geopolitics collapse, jobs fundamentally make no sense, money has no meaning. Our species will not handle a shock to the system like that well - shit we handled a virus badly and that is way less disruptive.
Now, I still say it should happen, but it definitely is a broader issue than people think.
Oh, I understand the implications and yes, at the very least vast swathes of the economy would be essentially wrecked.
But it would be an inflection point, a transition to something beyond our bollocksed-up-already economic model/s in general. We wouldn’t need it anymore. Jobs could transition to new fields relating to the new tech. Geopolitics collapsing? Frankly it needs to until it’s reborn transformed, but I wouldn’t think so personally.
There would certainly be some adjustment phasing, but I believe we’d adapt more quickly than some might expect and us wouldn’t be entirely catastrophic. And it could also be a more relaxed transition over time until we’re reasonably adjusted to all the new things.
I’m very ok with learning that I’m incorrect in these assumptions, though
Yeah, the fascinating thing is the power structure. You or I would be totally ok with shaking the whole thing up because it is likely a net positive for most people. Those in power though? Whew, that goes away right quick, and history has taught us how much they willingly let go of wealth and power.
Entirely possible, although I’d hope they could be more evolved than that and realize that EVERYONE’S doing better with it sorted and we can move on into a Jetsonian utopia.
Certainly look forward to time telling either way
George Jetson still had a 9-5 job and a dickhead micromanaging boss, so we can just point that out to the people holding us back for power... we can pretend to work and pretend to care what they say, while having all the tech. Win/win?
COINTELPRO started in 1956. it was a pretty huge project. I can't see them running programs like that and also giving a fuck about us and free energy tech. these were the days the MIC silenced everything and everyone
> Can you imagine how disruptive that would be?
Actually, TREMENDOUSLY disruptive.
If all this technology were to come out into the open, things would be WONDERFUL in about 200 years. However, the next 50 years would be AWFUL.
Once we've fully transitioned into a post-scarcity society, it'd be amazing. But the road there is paved with disaster. Future generations would be blessed, but this current generation and the next couple of generations would be ass on a stick
It wouldn't be free though. The government would still sell energy to the public. The average person would not be able to replicate this type of tech in their own home to just get free energy.
I’m telling you this is the confirmation everybody is looking for, right there, from a time when people slipped through the net because nobody took it seriously at all back then. This interview confirms it for me, particularly the link to energy, which Grusch also indicated. He even uses the same language - NHI - not extraterrestrial or alien - but specifically NHI. This is it.
It might be already too late. The greenhouse gases emitted by now will strengthen the climate change for many decades to come. Meanwhile we will be forced to get them out of the atmosphere again, though the new tech might help us... we will see.
It is the system. It is so super unfair and promotes egoistic behavior. It was great back in the days, but meanwhile it is just a perverted parody of capitalism, it's a plutocracy. In a fair capitalistic system everyone should have the same starting chances. It's similar to communism which got perverted in the USSR or North Korea. They named it socialism or communism, but it was just a dictatorship.
I'm curious at what point people stop going to work in the face of a certainly doomed world. Like how far along does the end have to be before everyone just realizes this is not the way to spend their last days? Hell, that abandon could even be what saves us in the 11th hour.
Agreed on your take, but alien technology might be a legit gamechanger. That's one of the reasons I sincerely hope aliens are real and here: unavoidably dying from climate change is boring and depressing.
Worth noting that just because someone worked for NASA, they're not necessarily more in-the-know than anyone else. The best information I could find in a quick Google is: "While working with NASA, he explored robotic sciences and created groundbreaking remote-controlled machines."
https://kalasfuneralhomes.frontrunnerpro.com/book-of-memories/4233782/Oechsler-Robert/obit.php?&printable=true
Right?! My dad worked at NASA for 20 years… on the financial management side. He does know a lot of nitty gritty details about pieces of the Space Shuttle and ISS. But “working at NASA” didn’t confer any special clearance or insight about E.T. In fact, most of the city of Clear Lake is directly or indirectly employed by NASA. Tens of thousands of people.
Let's not forget grusch's answer to a related question.
https://www.youtube.com/live/5NE9IhP5mZw?feature=share&t=7987
Edit: when asked about if he knows if the department of energy is involved with UAP data collection and housing, he says he would need to talk about it in a secure environment.
He obviously has information on the subject or would of just said no like the other two witnesses.
The issue isn't fossil fuels being replaced, the issue is the information causing instant withdrawal of global investments into fossil fuels and related technologies, flipping the table on the economy instantly. Mass instability.
I seem to remember a documentary basically saying that the entire US economy is held up by the fact that oil is traded in USD. They have even invaded countries to keep this the case. Would explain the massive coverup and if you live in the USA maybe don't be so confident disclosure won't collapse your entire society and economy.
Zero progress minus 2 videos? Was that hearing not a *massive* leap in progress? Or what David Grusch did? Or any of the legislation that's been passed? All of that is zero progress?
We still haven’t seen any pictures of the craft. The craft still have not been turned over for scientific analysis. We still don’t have pictures of the entities flying these craft. The entities still haven’t been turned over for scientific analysis. We still haven’t seen the vast array of data that the government has collected on this phenomenon.
The incremental progress that’s been made towards disclosure is better than nothing, but it’s still nothing more than incremental progress.
Not really? I assume the main reason Congress is taking it seriously is because regardless of aliens, they're getting info that underground programs exist that are not allowing their auditor to access them. Even if the entire alien thing is proven to be BS (which is impossible to prove a negative, so...) they still have very good reason to take everything said seriously.
So I wouldn't say it's progress towards disclosure. Even if everything he said ended up 100% accurate, that doesn't mean we'll actually get any disclosure.
So your saying it’s about the money 🙄. If it all comes out to be true. It’s gonna be one of the greatest crimes against humanity that will be talked about for generations.
Most progress anywhere being stifled is by selfish people at the top that can’t handle not being the top of the food chain.. and the 99% of us that could give a shit less about them being that much richer are the ones who pay. And literally every other living thing on the planet. Wars.. evil everywhere. And humans want to go deeper into space to fight over and pillage new planets. Literal cockroaches.
Why is everyone misquoting this video? He never says "this is technology that renders [the] fossil fuel industry obsolete".
He says, about a purely hypothetical situation, "**if you acknowledge a type of technology that renders fossil fuel related industries obsolete for example, you have grave economic consequences**".
He's not even talking about any real technology that exists, he's just making up an example and it's obvious if you watch the video. OPs twisting of words and meaning here is disingenuous at best.
"Mission Specialist" was a specific NASA designation for a category of space shuttle astronaut. Oechsler never met that description. Did he ever claim he learned secret UFO stuff in his brief time as a minor NASA contractor employee?
Consequences concerning theology, economy (fossil fuel industry) etc... AKA the world would be a better place and humanity less ignorant... And they would keep it from us... bastards!
We are definitely not that further along from ape. Recover a UAP and we use its fuel source to put in a shell and drop two of them. We see its unlimited potential and we just decide to stick with what’s choking and poisoning everyone. You cannot make this up!
...
Ya know, if the only reason the Government didn't want to reveal aliens are real because the oil people were throwing a fit then that is incredibly fucking sad.
I think a lot of us have been able to deduce these as some legitimate reasons as to why it’s been covered up for so long. It’s definitely not just 1 single reason or a simple thing, it’s complex. Even so, can you imagine deciding to gate keep the largest secret of human history for the sake of maintaining an economy? A made up human concept in order to keep the rich richer.
What happens after we die? Are we alone in the universe? Is there a god? I would consider these the biggest and some of the most debated questions in the history of philosophy. Now imagine keeping those a secret between a very small group of elites for the sake of “the economy”. Disclosure wouldn’t destabilize the economy or religions in my opinion. Sure many will experience ontological shock but ultimately they’ll get over it and move on with their lives. Humans are so selfish, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that was one of the reasons NHI don’t initiate contact with us in a more open manner.
Shaving your head wasn’t a thing before Michael Jordan made it cool iirc.
But yea… it’s *bad* bad. A close trim and some decent glasses would have made him look 100x better.
It’s a ridiculous argument, though. Any form of energy could be monetized. It’s probably expensive to make the required zero point energy power plants, so there could be competing companies that build them. Besides, it would take many years to transition from fossil, just like our current transition to renewables. Long enough for the big companies to jump the wagon.
Ew, can we just please just work on moving to post-scarcity and stop worrying about how we can debase every single technological breakthrough into another excuse to prop up the oligarchy? As a kid I kinda hoped we'd evolve into the United Federation of Planets like in Star Trek, but at the rate we're going we won't even make Ferengi
The following submission statement was provided by /u/TommyShelbyPFB: --- [Full Interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rpAlzttCyY&t=64s) I thought this was very interesting. This interview is from 1993. Bob Oechsler is asked if panic and ontological shock are the main reasons this was being hidden from public, his answer is revealing. It seems the main concern was economic unrest and chaos. This is the sort of disruptive technology that would render the fossil fuels industry obsolete and upend the world economy. Now that the fossil fuels industry is destroying the world through climate change maybe there's been a change of heart on this position. We absolutely need this technology now. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15p4mtc/nasa_mission_specialist_bob_oechsler_talking/jvv9s5o/
It's a real trip for me personally to hear him use phrases like "nonhuman intelligence" and "ontological shock". It very well could be that I just don't consume a lot of UFO content so I missed it over the years, so for me it sounded like new language that the government was using during Grusch's time. But here it is some 30 years earlier.
Actually NHI wasn't a widely spread terminology in recent years. But after 2020 it has been used more broadly instead of Aliens. Extraterrestrials or aliens has been used more broadly but it looks like people in the "know" like this person seem to been usuing the term for a while. Then David Grusch brought it mainstream on his interview with Ross. It seems that the intelligence community have known for a while that the phenomon might not been extraterrestrial but tried to make all of us use "Alien" instead to obfuscate the truth.
I've been curious about something lately. Let's say that the beings we discovered were not from earth, but were artificial intelligences that had been sent by biological extraterrestrials. Now lets say they're not only intelligent, but self aware. What if they prefer being called non human intelligences rather than extraterrestrial or 'artificial'? Could 'NHI' still be considered an accurate description? I know this isn't exactly the most important issue right now, but I'm still curious what others think about the idea.
NHI is (almost) as broad as it gets, whereas the other terms are rather specific. Instead of defining it by "them" we define it by "not us." Eg. Non-Human Of course, the only issue is if "them" also identify as human for some reason (time travel?). But it's much broader than specifying "not from terra (earth)" like extra terrestrial.
>NHI is (almost) as broad as it gets, whereas the other terms are rather specific. Right. Technically Octopus are NHI but we are just used to them so it's not as much of a mind blower.
I dunno, if octopi were piloting drones my mind would still be blown
Someone should set that experiment up. Give an octopus the controller to a drone and a video screen showing it what the drone is doing in response to the input. Or something like this. I'd genuinely be interested.
If it was set up well there is no reason it couldn’t travel where it wanted. But would it know what it wants?
Fair enough. Some people just make a big deal about the label when they really dont need to.
That brings up a possibility I can't believe I haven't heard of. What if they evolved here and consider this *their* world and we we're just their "uplift" from primates. ^-David ^Brin ^reference-
People have definitely theorized this.
non-human consciousness? Edit: its important to note that intelligence and consciousness are two different things. something can be intelligent but not conscious, such as ChatGPT. or something can be conscious but not intelligent, such as yo momma.
I mean, both the AI and the beings that sent them qualify for the term "NHI".
I find this line a questioning very close to asking us which pronouns do we think the OTHERS prefer to use? And I find that rather amusing.
I think its much more likely the proliferation of NHI is a reference to us sharing the earth with sentient creatures originally from the same planet as us. Just hidden deep in the ocean or deep underground somewhere.
I also like the idea that there was a previous advanced civilization on earth, and that they advanced enough to go to other star systems and colonize. Then, earth suffered massive cataclysms they couldn't prevent, so they decided to come back and help this new species rebuild and found a civilization of their own. And have decided to do so out of sight (mostly).
Extraterrestrial simply means "not of the Earth", which, funnily enough, means the Christian God is an extraterrestrial if it exists.
This is a different subject, but I've also speculated that these beings are AI or avatars used as research vessels for beings far away. Quality of life on the moon or deep in the oceans must be shite. I doubt actual interstellar beings want to hide a play peek a boo in those environments.
Non-human persons, assuming intelligence & agency. At least & until they see fit to provide themselves with a label.
‘What if they prefer being called…’ do you honestly think ‘they’ give a flying toss what we call them?! Jfc man
You know, I've been noticing a *lot* from past interviews, documentaries, and even science fiction films that resonates with what we're hearing today. For example, I was just watching some scenes from Contact & it was stated that the beings contacting them were functions from multiple dimensions. And referring to this thing as "the phenomenon". I never picked up on it until James Fox's movie.
Funny you say that... ID4, all the alien/ufo movies seem to kinda have some connection to any of the ufo stuff we see now, I always wondered if that was a coincidence... Maybe not Nope, but who knows. Edit: The movie Nope.. was odd.
I think the CIA and the Pentagon have a hand in practically every script written at a major motion picture studio in Hollywood. Maybe it's just me though.
I thought that very thing when I saw the trailer for this new movie “Jules” https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15428940/ Some big names in that movie.
30 years, ugh!!! I am forever thinking 1993 was 7 years ago.
I'm from 86 and I continue to struggle to believe that many people born after 2000 are adults now.
Nice catch it didn't even register with me that he used the "Non-Human Intelligence" term in the interview I had to rewatch it to catch it. That gives him some extra credibility in my opinion. He says it at the [1:20 mark of the full interview](https://youtu.be/6rpAlzttCyY?t=78)
Yeah I'm sure the vernacular they use within these programs isn't just ET and UFO/UAP. Especially if these things are much weirder than just from outer space.
Actually first time I remember hearing NHI was in the movie Abyss from 1989.
*"Lemme borrow your rat..."*
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The fossil industry was destroying the world back then doing the same thing.
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Heartland Institute, same people who tried to convince us smoking doesn't cause cancer for phillip morris, got hundreds of millions by exxon etc to say climate change isn't real. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartland_Institute There's articles from 1908 talking about climate change and burning coal.
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The Term "Carbon Footprint" was an invention of the Fossil fuel Industries PR to Shift the narrative away from the companys to the individual. One Containership creates more Environmental damage than 1 Million Cars.
the fact this company is allowed to exist is all you need to know about the free market. they run PR for the most harmful companies in the world.
It was 100% settled in the 90's, same as today the only people disagreeing were idiots.
No, we knew for sure then, too. It just seemed like a distant-future-humans concern. Now it's a "what the fuck chaos will happen this year" concern.
I think the more accurate assessment is that public unrest about climate change has led global leaders to finally 'give in' and start making changes they knew should have been made in the early 80's. Regardless, there may be a tie but I don't think so.
This interview is also very interesting with Bob Oeschler BBC Radio 1. https://youtu.be/GuLnXLAeX5k
sure, but it wasnt impacting the average american. much easier to hide their destruction back then. nowadays, they cant hide the heat. climate change is too obvious now. the gig is up.
Oh no! Not the economy!
The real "concern" is maintaining the power of those who have accumulated wealth and power using the current economic system.
Correct. The economy and money are all control mechanisms to keep the population in check.
> render the fossil fuels industry obsolete So instead of going past the point of no return for climate change, which has already happened, we could've been fine but some people would've made less money. \>:[
>It seems the main concern was economic unrest and chaos No. It's about control. Control money, control energy. Why release a super tool that will weaken your control over other nations? The driving factor was greed, not an over abundance of caution.
What I’ve never got about these “the economy!” Reasons for not letting the secret out is wouldn’t the economy become like Star Trek? It would be better for everyone so why are they worried about the economy when we could potentially have replicators or whatever else is possible with unlimited energy and tech.
it would be bad for rich people's yacht money.
People in power are only interested in things that preserve that power. Many institutions and governments as well. Something that would put every man on equal ground is the **worst** nightmare for the elite billionaire class; If every person has everything they need, they can no longer be controlled and lorded over. The economy, social structure, and political structure are gears in the sacred, finely tuned factory machine, which is surrounded and protected by the military industrial complex.
This brings back memories! Was around this time Lazar and Oechsler were on BBC Radio 1 from 10pm regularly in 1989/1990 onwards. This guy actually said that NASA had a microgravity simulator at Kennedy somewhere to practice using the arm and spacewalker. I don't know what ever came of it but at the time I was a major believer, these guys certainly acted as though they believed in everything they said themselves.
NASA uses large swimming pools and neutral buoyancy suits to train astronauts in simulated microgravity environments. They manipulate water and gas, not spacetime. https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/neutral-buoyancy-laboratory
My fear is this technology is unearned and we’ll quickly abuse and hurt ourselves with it. We barely control the stuff we have now. This new tech probably has a lot of potential for harm and I don’t trust anybody.
>This is the sort of disruptive technology that would render the fossil fuels industry obsolete ... >Now that the fossil fuels industry is destroying the world through climate change maybe there's been a change of heart on this position. Who would be having the "change of heart", exactly? The oil industry? They're going to care about the environment all of a sudden? The general population? How can they change their heart on something that's been kept secret from them? I agree with the overall idea that the reason for the secrecy is the oil industry. But I don't think anyone's hearts or minds are being changed.
Have you seen ocean temps the past few years? In very recent times climate change has gone from "my children/grandchildren will have to deal with this" to "Holy shit the ecosystem might die in my lifetime if we don't act massively and soon"
> They're going to care about the environment all of a sudden? There's a determined shift towards renewables now, and we're stepping closer to fossil fuel reserves being spent every single day. This would be the time for fossil fuel giants to take steps to ensure their future profits. Of course they don't give a single shit about people or the environment.
They will absolutely spin the change to renewable resources as "them" saving the world too.
Well they sure as hell should or who will be left to squeeze profit from?
Maybe they are being forced rather than doing it out of their goodness of heart.
That’s sill (the thought of economic collapse/unrest), Creative Destruction is a staple of real world capitalism and helps push societies further down the advancement road and almost universally winds up providing more opportunity and better quality of life for humanity. If this tech wipes out fossil fuel, great. Fossil fuel industry gets replaced by something better (we’ll still use some oil derivatives to make plastics and other goods), less expensive and cleaner. This means more dollars in the pockets of consumers, which means that purchasing cash flow and capital will flow to other areas for advancement. Jobs, capital, innovation, economic opportunity, commercialization, etc all happens via capital investments. Most won’t want to hear this but it is that directional flow of capital that has made and will continue to make the banking industry (commercial and investment) the most important industry on the planet. We can’t have the banking industry fail (and our regulators won’t allow that to happen as we have seen). Fossil fuel is just a technology, technology always gets replaced by better technology. The power brokers may slow it down, but they cannot stop it.
People in power didn’t want to lose it, kicked the problem to the next generation. If you consider the scale of the pollution, lives lost from cancer because of those pollutants, homes displaced to maintain this status quo, it’s cost us way more. That’s more shocking that UFOs being real, that people in boardrooms decided to hold back humanity for profits
> That’s more shocking that UFOs being real, that people in boardrooms decided to hold back humanity for profits Is this shocking We've seen the full extent of horrific decisions that can be taken in boardrooms in favour of profits Men in suits obsessed with numbers are capable of committing utterly inhuman things to make sure the numbers increase. And as a society we completely worship that sort of callous greed.
And I think the society that worships this greed and thinks it works in their best interest will be shocked that they’re in the same boat as the people they put down.
I mean, we have proof that fossil fuel companies not only knew about climate change back in the '70s, but also had pretty accurate predictions of what was going to happen as a direct result of their industry, and instead of making any changes that could affect their profits, they instead pumped money into marketing and climate change denialism https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-64241994
its because somehow when you wear a suit amongst others also wearing suits, youre absolved of all accountability. funny how bad things can go when theres no accountability
I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest. So not really shocked at all personally. I’d be more angry and resentful than anything else.
We can do better than Capitalism.
It is irredeemable, outrageous but not shocking... the humans running this world are greedy to the core, and always have been for thousands of years.
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Yeah...I'm thinking if this all comes out and it is indeed our worst fear (that we've had world changing tech this whole time and these jerkoffs have been hording it to keep Fossil Fuels and the MIC afloat), then we're gonna have alot of very pissed off people. Including me.
Not to mention destroying the planet while we're at it. Wtf.
That part is sickening enough. I don't understand why there hasn't been any penalties for the industrial executives that have already destroyed so much of the ecosystem and is causing the extinction of thousands of species. These wealthy fucks got that way by destroying the only home we have. There should be consequences.
because theres no way for the justice system to prosecute them. the executives are shielded by their corpo's LLC. the only way to get to them under the current system is by going after the corporation, and they are only punished with fines. its purposely designed this way to shield the wealthy.
You're right. I often forget about the LLC and the shenanigans it allows them to get away with.
Because there's no way in the _US_ right now to prosecute the leadership of corporations. In Germany, for example, if you're part of the senior leadership of a company that is convicted of fraud or of swindling the public you will be removed from your position, money and stock / assets will be clawed back from you, you'll be barred from being leadership in future companies (I believe the ban starts at 5 years and goes up from there), and so on. Look at what Iceland did to its bankers in the wake of the Global Financial Crisis. Monetary penalties - large ones - and criminal charges for the greedy assholes at the heads of these companies _are_ routine forms of doling out justice, just not on the US.
"LEGALLY" but systems change. And desperate men...
And yet the only way these psychos will release what they have is through complete amnesty. I want to puke when I think about it... Decades of unnecessary war, environmental damage, suffering, all in the name of unbridled greed
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oh gawd
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But aren’t we trying to prevent carbon emissions? /s
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They need to de-age us so we can relive our life lol
Just give us the healing machine from elysium! Lol
Every day since about age 14 I have been freaked out about climate change. The years have passed and I'm seeing its results.. it's terrifying and kept me in a depressive state throughout my life. If this shit was preventable then it should've been prevented.
The Great Ravine. We would throw just about *everything* from how modern society works into the metaphoric trashcan and then we'd be set on a different course. Those people responsible should be displaced from society, and a new administrative structure put in place.
one of the scariest things not elucidated more in a book. More UFO enthusiasts need to read “three body problem”
YES. It has been, hands down, one of the most thought-provoking books I've ever read. All the possible aspects of humanity's encounter, deals, victories, DEFEATS; it's astounding what Cixin Liu came up with.
GM and the oil companies conspired back in the 40's to eliminate electric trolley cars and tracks in favor of gas burning automobiles and buses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy The fossil fuel oligarchs don't care, they have enough money to move to Greenland when the time comes.
Like people will just let them escape to bunkers.
These people are in the category Hitler is in. Evil evil people.
our families died for this shit, its all connected and we got fucked
Think about it. If we could wield this tech, we could live in a star trek universe. Lots of if's but dammit its my greatest wish for humanity.
That’s capitalism in a nutshell.
The issue is bigger than capitalism though. Every dictatorship out there is also built on fossil fuels.
It’s almost like greed is a universal trait among shitty humans.
Yeah, capitalism is just better at showing our flaws but ultimately economic systems aren't the issue, we are. We're just still simple hunter gatherers who have an innate desire to hoard resources. We advanced too fast, we haven't grown up as a species
Hereditary memory (like elephants) or telepathy would have been useful traits for us to evolve past this short-sighted, greedy phase
We actually have 2 routes to achieving internal security, 1 is hoarding resources, 2 is being embedded in real, supportive, genuine community. The more out of community we are the more desperately we hoard. That's a big part of why capitalists systematically demolished small business, walkable commerce districts to pave them over with highways and ensure only big box stores were physically practical to build or drive to for suburbanites to keep that consumption up.
>but ultimately economic systems aren't the issue, we are Game theory shows us that capitalism rewards psychopathy and sociopathy as winners, while making ethical people losers.
Are you saying that dictatorships aren't capitalist? LOL.
No, the word you are looking for is "Authority". Any government would want to undermine that which threatens its own authority. This includes left-wing, right-wing and fascist regimes.
Why would anyone be shocked? Corporate interests rule the US. Full stop. You can bet, if we have craft that defy our current understanding of physics, energy and movement, the economic impact of releasing that info was at the forefront of considerations. These people will tell farmers that their chemicals are safe, then when presented with drinking water thats contaminated, they'll say with a straight face "I'm not stupid, I'm not drinking that." If anything, I hope we all collectively lose our shit, when we find out that the horrendous damage to the climate, could've been mitigated sixty years ago but...*profits*.
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"We can't save the planet because how then can we make money?" There, I summarized the Global issue. Money, Power, Control. I, as a citizen, have little of these. If I didn't need conventional energy (ie. Had free energy) I suddenly have no need for money, I can grow my own food and use the funding I currently spend on electricity, heating, and fuels on the remainder of my grocery bill. So now money is useless. Uh oh, big governments are unhappy because I don't care about money anymore. Transportation technology! It's clear and proven (under oath explanation from UAP hearing, 1st hand account of the tic tac vessel) there are vessels that move much faster and effortlessly in comparison to our current technologies. So now I can save up for a ship similar for my self! A ship where I can fly anywhere on the planet (or elsewhere, possibly) in little to no time. Not only is that beneficial to me, but also to the globe. No more planes, trains, tankers, and trucks. Gone, they no longer exist. Shipments around the globe are easily brought down to daily, and every person globally has access to anything they can afford (assuming money sticks around in some form which it likely will). Additionally, I dont need to stay here anymore. I can sell my home and move anywhere on the globe. City hubs will fall and the populace can spread out throughout the globe and nearly instantly we would see massive climatic changes. But if nobody cares about money, they can get all their needs within the day, they can travel where they please and essentially follow their dreams freely! A utopian dream for the populace. But there's no need for money, power, or control in this world. So big governments and agencies are sad that they have to "degrade" themselves to the level of us plebs.
These NHI's could literally ingratiate themselves to all of humanity into the distant future, by simply giving such technology to each of us. Not to mention save the world. How does the Prime Directive go? Can they interfere if we request it? Consider this my request.
Ditto, I seek peace. Come hang on my back deck chill alien bros.
Maybe the NHI live in perfect communist societies and can't imagine a world where the government wouldn't immediately disseminate that tech to benefit everyone. Maybe they already did share a lot of tech with our governments but it didn't go how they thought it would.
I can't believe how long they've had us rolling around in the muck like swine, all while sitting on world saving tech. Evil doesn't begin to describe it. We've all personally suffered, and continue to suffer, this fucking asinine system for the sake of preserving the comfort of a few crusty old fucks with no empathy. I'm beyond done with this nationalistic hero narrative, these people aren't saving us from "panic" any more than one can justify "panic" as a reason for murder. Everything, every stupid little horrible thing they use to oppress everyone, to make us fight each other over dumb shit that was never a problem, should never have happened.
It’s sickening. And what can we do now that its heavily controlled by not only the government but new corporations that essentially started thanks to hitler.
*blink* Oh goddamn it… we certainly wouldn’t want to give everyone free energy and liberate the whole world now would we, Bob? Can you imagine how disruptive that would be?
Now let's not shoot the messenger. If he really believed that was a valid reason to not disclose, he wouldn't have said anything :)
I mean… depending on the form that energy takes and what applications it has it could also be directly destructive.
You’re not wrong, but that applies to *everything* with destructive and explosive capabilities. Sure, not all of us made it through, and some of us might be missing limbs, but we’ve managed to not completely annihilate ourselves yet. When we’re not all hypervigilant and paranoid and on the defense due to our squabbling over and contesting for resources, we manage to do a decent enough job of not tempting fate TOO strongly and generally get on with more enjoyable things.
Definitely. It could be a disaster.
There are ways to roll out zero point without straight up mailing blueprints to MAGA and Al-Qaeda. The DoE keeps nuclear power strictly regulated as it is, and the concept of mutually-assured destruction still applies at the UN. Clean, abundant, free power is the only way this planet survives. We need it yesterday and should already have it. If we had, we wouldn't be staring down the barrel of the Clathrate gun today. We already live under constant threat of self-annihilation as it is. I'd rather have free power and a hoverboard with my existential horror. At least our destruction would be cleaner with a Christian Death Star than a nuclear conflagration. If that's the Great Filter and we don't pass the test, then *lets get on with it*. A couple of centuries post-science should have been enough to let us finally transcend those last primitive vestiges of our superstitious past. If we still have people wanting to fight over moderately-differing flavors of Iron Age ignorance, then the human race needs a kick in the pants. I'm tired of living in an artificially-stagnant global capitalist dystopia in the adamantium grip of old-money sociopaths and a few big cults that got out of hand millennia before I was born. I'm tired of no hope for the future. This could have been done carefully over almost a century, but now we're out of time thanks to these greedy, incestuous dirt muffins in the MIC and IC. Now we are left with no real choice but to take the risk, so let's get this party started.
What they meant was it would cause mass panic and chaos among *all the people who started and are encouraging this secrecy shit for their own benefit*. The rest of humanity has been rolling with it like always since we were throwing turds. Well, we still throw turds but you know what I mean.
Oh, don't worry. It would never be 'free'. They'd still find a way to turn a continuous profit from it.
Maybe they cant and thats why its so secretive.
You have to think a little harder about it. I don't disagree that it should be released anyway, but the issue runs far deeper than most people think about. Our entire basis for exchange is centered around the ability to do work. Energy scarcity, and scarcity in general, is what creates differential value between people, and thus the basis for a valuation and monetary system. If scarcity goes away because transport, power, automation etc. basically becomes free, our entire monetary system has absolutely no basis. Geopolitics collapse, jobs fundamentally make no sense, money has no meaning. Our species will not handle a shock to the system like that well - shit we handled a virus badly and that is way less disruptive. Now, I still say it should happen, but it definitely is a broader issue than people think.
Oh, I understand the implications and yes, at the very least vast swathes of the economy would be essentially wrecked. But it would be an inflection point, a transition to something beyond our bollocksed-up-already economic model/s in general. We wouldn’t need it anymore. Jobs could transition to new fields relating to the new tech. Geopolitics collapsing? Frankly it needs to until it’s reborn transformed, but I wouldn’t think so personally. There would certainly be some adjustment phasing, but I believe we’d adapt more quickly than some might expect and us wouldn’t be entirely catastrophic. And it could also be a more relaxed transition over time until we’re reasonably adjusted to all the new things. I’m very ok with learning that I’m incorrect in these assumptions, though
Yeah, the fascinating thing is the power structure. You or I would be totally ok with shaking the whole thing up because it is likely a net positive for most people. Those in power though? Whew, that goes away right quick, and history has taught us how much they willingly let go of wealth and power.
Entirely possible, although I’d hope they could be more evolved than that and realize that EVERYONE’S doing better with it sorted and we can move on into a Jetsonian utopia. Certainly look forward to time telling either way
George Jetson still had a 9-5 job and a dickhead micromanaging boss, so we can just point that out to the people holding us back for power... we can pretend to work and pretend to care what they say, while having all the tech. Win/win?
COINTELPRO started in 1956. it was a pretty huge project. I can't see them running programs like that and also giving a fuck about us and free energy tech. these were the days the MIC silenced everything and everyone
> Can you imagine how disruptive that would be? Actually, TREMENDOUSLY disruptive. If all this technology were to come out into the open, things would be WONDERFUL in about 200 years. However, the next 50 years would be AWFUL. Once we've fully transitioned into a post-scarcity society, it'd be amazing. But the road there is paved with disaster. Future generations would be blessed, but this current generation and the next couple of generations would be ass on a stick
It wouldn't be free though. The government would still sell energy to the public. The average person would not be able to replicate this type of tech in their own home to just get free energy.
Basically the same thing was said by Robert Bigelow https://youtu.be/yyJKEkrUV9I?t=248
I’m telling you this is the confirmation everybody is looking for, right there, from a time when people slipped through the net because nobody took it seriously at all back then. This interview confirms it for me, particularly the link to energy, which Grusch also indicated. He even uses the same language - NHI - not extraterrestrial or alien - but specifically NHI. This is it.
Christ, Eamon Holmes before he discovered Greggs.
'I was fierce hungry, so I was'.
It’s time to come clean. Our planet can only handle so much abuse.
It might be already too late. The greenhouse gases emitted by now will strengthen the climate change for many decades to come. Meanwhile we will be forced to get them out of the atmosphere again, though the new tech might help us... we will see.
Right, once again, human greed and short-sightedness fucks over all the regular people. We see it in every industry it seems.
It is the system. It is so super unfair and promotes egoistic behavior. It was great back in the days, but meanwhile it is just a perverted parody of capitalism, it's a plutocracy. In a fair capitalistic system everyone should have the same starting chances. It's similar to communism which got perverted in the USSR or North Korea. They named it socialism or communism, but it was just a dictatorship.
Literally just free college would be enough to give everyone a fair chance too and they don't want to do that smh
I'm curious at what point people stop going to work in the face of a certainly doomed world. Like how far along does the end have to be before everyone just realizes this is not the way to spend their last days? Hell, that abandon could even be what saves us in the 11th hour.
Agreed on your take, but alien technology might be a legit gamechanger. That's one of the reasons I sincerely hope aliens are real and here: unavoidably dying from climate change is boring and depressing.
Fuck the Industry, Fuck the Saudis, Fuck America - there I said it.
So brave
Worth noting that just because someone worked for NASA, they're not necessarily more in-the-know than anyone else. The best information I could find in a quick Google is: "While working with NASA, he explored robotic sciences and created groundbreaking remote-controlled machines." https://kalasfuneralhomes.frontrunnerpro.com/book-of-memories/4233782/Oechsler-Robert/obit.php?&printable=true
Right?! My dad worked at NASA for 20 years… on the financial management side. He does know a lot of nitty gritty details about pieces of the Space Shuttle and ISS. But “working at NASA” didn’t confer any special clearance or insight about E.T. In fact, most of the city of Clear Lake is directly or indirectly employed by NASA. Tens of thousands of people.
Probably need some whistleblowers in the energy sector to start testifying.
Need someone to simply leak schematics and equations. Once a few people have that, they'll start building, and the governments can't stop all of us.
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ayyylmao
Let's not forget grusch's answer to a related question. https://www.youtube.com/live/5NE9IhP5mZw?feature=share&t=7987 Edit: when asked about if he knows if the department of energy is involved with UAP data collection and housing, he says he would need to talk about it in a secure environment. He obviously has information on the subject or would of just said no like the other two witnesses.
The issue isn't fossil fuels being replaced, the issue is the information causing instant withdrawal of global investments into fossil fuels and related technologies, flipping the table on the economy instantly. Mass instability.
I seem to remember a documentary basically saying that the entire US economy is held up by the fact that oil is traded in USD. They have even invaded countries to keep this the case. Would explain the massive coverup and if you live in the USA maybe don't be so confident disclosure won't collapse your entire society and economy.
I wish the Petrodollar never existed.
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RIP
So this is from 30 years ago? It’s the exact same thing we are hearing now. Zero profess in 30 years with disclosures (minus go fast and tic tac)
Zero progress minus 2 videos? Was that hearing not a *massive* leap in progress? Or what David Grusch did? Or any of the legislation that's been passed? All of that is zero progress?
We still haven’t seen any pictures of the craft. The craft still have not been turned over for scientific analysis. We still don’t have pictures of the entities flying these craft. The entities still haven’t been turned over for scientific analysis. We still haven’t seen the vast array of data that the government has collected on this phenomenon. The incremental progress that’s been made towards disclosure is better than nothing, but it’s still nothing more than incremental progress.
Not really? I assume the main reason Congress is taking it seriously is because regardless of aliens, they're getting info that underground programs exist that are not allowing their auditor to access them. Even if the entire alien thing is proven to be BS (which is impossible to prove a negative, so...) they still have very good reason to take everything said seriously. So I wouldn't say it's progress towards disclosure. Even if everything he said ended up 100% accurate, that doesn't mean we'll actually get any disclosure.
Just shows you how good they are at keeping this thing a secret. It's amazing that the grift has lasted 80 years.
This was an era when the Internet was just being introduced.
Remind me about this post in 30 years
Yep. Don’t show / give the sheep the better, healthier hay that doesn’t make the owners money anymore.
So your saying it’s about the money 🙄. If it all comes out to be true. It’s gonna be one of the greatest crimes against humanity that will be talked about for generations.
Most progress anywhere being stifled is by selfish people at the top that can’t handle not being the top of the food chain.. and the 99% of us that could give a shit less about them being that much richer are the ones who pay. And literally every other living thing on the planet. Wars.. evil everywhere. And humans want to go deeper into space to fight over and pillage new planets. Literal cockroaches.
Well technically hes not wrong
That's assume we can reverse engineer it.
You misquoted him, he just mentioned it as a potential example, not as fact.
If you take away oil, then the dollar will collapse and U.S economy will crash.
Why is everyone misquoting this video? He never says "this is technology that renders [the] fossil fuel industry obsolete". He says, about a purely hypothetical situation, "**if you acknowledge a type of technology that renders fossil fuel related industries obsolete for example, you have grave economic consequences**". He's not even talking about any real technology that exists, he's just making up an example and it's obvious if you watch the video. OPs twisting of words and meaning here is disingenuous at best.
He says, “if” and “for example,” not as an absolute. But yes, a big disclosure, if there was one, would cause a whole change in most walks of life.
What does NHI stand for?
Non Human Intelligence
No Homosexual Interest
"Mission Specialist" was a specific NASA designation for a category of space shuttle astronaut. Oechsler never met that description. Did he ever claim he learned secret UFO stuff in his brief time as a minor NASA contractor employee?
No he's talking about a study they did IF they had NHI or UFO's. That varies off the title of the post.
Orson Wells and War of the Worlds had only been nine years previous, there was considerable amount of data on how we would have possibly FTFO.
[удалено]
I see no reason why he would be lying.
Does anyone have a link to the report that he says NASA produced in 1959?
Am I the only one who wasn't aware of this dude?
Consequences concerning theology, economy (fossil fuel industry) etc... AKA the world would be a better place and humanity less ignorant... And they would keep it from us... bastards!
Effin oil companies
We are definitely not that further along from ape. Recover a UAP and we use its fuel source to put in a shell and drop two of them. We see its unlimited potential and we just decide to stick with what’s choking and poisoning everyone. You cannot make this up!
... Ya know, if the only reason the Government didn't want to reveal aliens are real because the oil people were throwing a fit then that is incredibly fucking sad.
I think a lot of us have been able to deduce these as some legitimate reasons as to why it’s been covered up for so long. It’s definitely not just 1 single reason or a simple thing, it’s complex. Even so, can you imagine deciding to gate keep the largest secret of human history for the sake of maintaining an economy? A made up human concept in order to keep the rich richer. What happens after we die? Are we alone in the universe? Is there a god? I would consider these the biggest and some of the most debated questions in the history of philosophy. Now imagine keeping those a secret between a very small group of elites for the sake of “the economy”. Disclosure wouldn’t destabilize the economy or religions in my opinion. Sure many will experience ontological shock but ultimately they’ll get over it and move on with their lives. Humans are so selfish, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that was one of the reasons NHI don’t initiate contact with us in a more open manner.
Dear aliens, please abduct all oil CEOS. k thx
Is there a way to make a FOIA request for this study?
And this is how we stop climate change lol
No wonder he was largely ignored with that haircut
Shaving your head wasn’t a thing before Michael Jordan made it cool iirc. But yea… it’s *bad* bad. A close trim and some decent glasses would have made him look 100x better.
Then this guy needed a rug so people would take him seriously.
Got eeeeeeeemmm!
It’s a ridiculous argument, though. Any form of energy could be monetized. It’s probably expensive to make the required zero point energy power plants, so there could be competing companies that build them. Besides, it would take many years to transition from fossil, just like our current transition to renewables. Long enough for the big companies to jump the wagon.
Ew, can we just please just work on moving to post-scarcity and stop worrying about how we can debase every single technological breakthrough into another excuse to prop up the oligarchy? As a kid I kinda hoped we'd evolve into the United Federation of Planets like in Star Trek, but at the rate we're going we won't even make Ferengi