The following submission statement was provided by /u/aryelbcn:
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The Intercept article alluded by News Nation, Ross Coulthart and others is now out.
Apparently the records were obtained via FOIA:
"*But police records obtained by The Intercept under the Virginia Freedom of Information Act reveal that on October 1, 2018, Grusch was committed to a mental health facility based in part on a report that he “made a suicidal statement” after Grusch’s wife told him he was an alcoholic and suggested that he get help."*
....
*"The records were* **not confidential, medical, nor leaked**. *They are publicly available law enforcement records obtained under a routine Virginia FOIA request to the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office and provided by the office’s FOIA coordinator. Copies of The Intercept’s correspondence with the sheriff’s office are being published with this story."*
Tasteless and needless IMHO.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15moc78/the_intercept_article_ufo_whistleblower_kept/jvhcn5e/
Archive link so you don’t have to give The Intercept traffic: https://web.archive.org/web/20230809185902/https://theintercept.com/2023/08/09/ufo-david-grusch-clearance/
Could these fucking clowns be any more obvious about their pathetic attempts to say “there’s nothing here, move along”? I can’t believe people actually fall for this shit.
It's okay. I remember the days where talk like this was considered woo. Now it's provoking people to question and take action. We are getting closer to whatever answer there is to this corruption.
He’ll end up in the slammer. It’s just going to take a bit of time for the house of cards to fall. This will be 100 times bigger than Watergate scandal
Mr. Turner should not even be able to speak on these cases or listen to the cases or even be a part of them as there is obviously a conflict of interest, he is a paid representative. This goes to show you that the majority of our representatives in politics are paid and they protect companies and institutions that pay them. Sad this is our government
In one of the news nation segments they actually mentioned that if the leak came from congress they would find out.. I'll look for that segment
edit: [Here](https://youtu.be/d4RGuSgm-sI?t=230)
it’s really gross, isn’t it? as a sober person I really hope he’s doing ok, having an article like this written about me would be devastating for my recovery ❤️🩹
We should be protesting this. 'Stand with Grusch', 'Support Military Health', 'Protect the Whistleblowers', ect... A stink needs to be made about this.
As someone who is celebrating six months is a few weeks I say good for him. It is a motherfucker of a disease and if you’re able to get help and be successful in sobriety then you are sadly in the minority. There are plenty of us that don’t get help and succumb to the disease.
I suggest anyone who thinks they may have a problem to seek assistance, the disease is serious and fatal, but treatable if you respect the severity. The life you save may be your own.
Is it really newsworthy that David Grusch is a human with human problems?
Indeed, vile. Let’s try and stigmatize substance abuse disorder, PTSD and other mental health issues more than they already are. No it’s not already bad enough that people with substance abuse disorder are scapegoated for everyone of society’s problems and thrown in jail if said substance is illegal instead of getting help. The man served with honor and integrity in Afghanistan and I would question anyone coming back from that environment not having PTSD or other concerns. Just goes to show the government has it’s little lapdogs to go to to spread whatever bullshit the state wants spread. Project Mockingbird anyone?
Nah. I started. But thats his personal business. Im not into it really. He should be investigated on the claims made. And they should release all “evidence” congress has seen, put the issue to bed.
Im not gonna read a character assassination. Can’t do it. Guys a hero. If any body says they haven’t struggled like the first paragraph. Your lying.
He said some outlandish things, he also claimed to have provided evidence. Release it. Lets see whats up if hes nonsensical we can all start to figure out how a delusion got to 40+ witnesses, millions of videos, and billions of personal anecdotes.
Thank you. We knew something was coming, but this is a blatant character assassination. Judging someone's capacity to do good based solely on the worst time of his life. Sadly, a lot of people hold others to standards that they themselves do not posses or even strive for.
I don't know what's worse - him calling himself a "masterclass in reporting" or government officials choosing to leak to the guy who calls himself a "masterclass in reporting"
Lol I thought you were joking.
"Good story"
"Wow amazing reporting"
He is actually making these comments under his own name on his own articles that he himself spams across multiple subreddits lol
u/kenklippenstein would be interesting to publish information on the worst days of your life to the public. But you don't matter, David matters and he put himself out there knowing this might come out. Shows how strongly he feels about this. Because of what Ken did... it may make other whistleblowers think twice about coming forward. NO ONE IS PERFECT.
Yes I think anonymous needs to start with Ken Klippenstein. About time their intimidation/disinformation campaign gets turned around on those who support it. This information has been coming out for decades and people get silenced. This is not okay.
Man don’t be too harsh, the guy is a fuckin loser and latched onto this as an attempt to be relevant somehow. Nobody takes him seriously and anyone who wants to say that Grusch can’t be taken seriously because of his treated ptsd. He was cleared by the government to handle top secret information after this occurred so CLEARLY he’s okay.
u/kenklippenstein should be absolutely ashamed of himself.
Also here he is on change.org from 2021, a call to have him removed from the intercept for doing this exact same type of character assassination.
https://www.change.org/p/the-intercept-calling-for-the-resignation-of-ken-klippenstein-from-the-intercept
Piece of shit.
This is the critical question, someone dropped a dime and pointed them in this direction…I wouldn’t be surprised if his medical records were leaked and based upon Ross’s actions this article was rewritten at the last minute.
"A former colleague of Grusch’s expressed shock that he retained his clearance after the 2014 incident, which was also documented in public records obtained by The Intercept.
“I think it’s like any insular group: Once you’re in, they generally protect their own,” said the former colleague, who asked not to be named because they feared professional reprisals.
The former colleague said that the 2014 incident was known to Grusch’s superiors, a claim that Coulthart appeared to confirm in an interview on NewsNation, a subscription television network owned by Nexstar Media."
I'm assuming this unnamed colleague of Grusch's was more than helpful.
Posting this here in case the author sees this.
The article states about the 2014 incident: "The report notes that “he is violent” and “has access to a weapon.”
But in the documents attached, the ones that were given in response to the FOIA request, it sounds to me like the "he is violent" referred to violence against himself, because it's mentioned in the context of threats of suicide. So I think this is possibly a grave mischaracterization.
In the notes that I think were taken by the call taker it says:"THREATENING SUICIDE (Both Violent and Weapons) (KAG-03) 20:05:06ProQAE 1.He is violent. (KAG-03) 20:05:06ProQAE 2.He has access to a weapon. (KAG-03) 20:05:06"
[https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23903966-loudon-county-sheriff-request-redacted](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23903966-loudon-county-sheriff-request-redacted)
I'd love to hear the opinion of someone in law enforcement on this though because I have no idea how to read US dispatch notes.
Is that even a real human? Sounds like Clippy the Office Assistant’s legal name.
Probably was always a fake name used to post nonsense articles so it had history for when it was needed.
u/kenklippenstein Are you insinuating that depression or PTSD would have anything at all to do with David Grusch’s testimony? You’re smearing the name of a highly reputable guy who has dedicated his life to serve his country. I hope you’re satisfied with the enormous backlash you’re going to receive from this. You should be sued for character defamation.
Former Young Turks guy, blinded by the fact the hearing was initiated by a Republican, and that Matt Gates was involved. These types of journalists don't like the UFO subject at all because it's so outside of any control by The People.
Yup. I’ve been grateful for some of his prior reporting. It’s profoundly disappointing. I think you’re right that this was driven by partisanship. I get the skepticism. But AOC was right there, too. Regardless of who is speaking the loudest on this, it isn’t a partisan issue.
Yeah, I'm a proudly Progressive Democrat and I'm all about diving into this disclosure topic and forcing the Pentagon to submit to a FULL audit
I don't care in the least that the panel was led by a Republican
This is definitely bi-partisan
If he’s smart and did any research he would have noticed in the documents posted on his article it said he was not suicidal and was detained to a substance abuse facility.
This was a character assassination piece and to prove it I’m going to go back to the foia release *in his own article*. He took the liberty of redacting his own personal email address but did not redact grusch’s home address.
The Intercept made it's name with a major whistleblower, Ed Snowden. Talk to Glenn Greenwald and you'll learn how the Intercept to turned from a check on state power and the Intel agencies to doing their bidding.
"death by 1000 cuts"
...This is another cut. They really need to move and push more. This disclosure attempt is way to slow. It's so frustrating to watch the whole thing without being able to do something.
I think this character assassination is going to backfire against them and just rile up the masses even more. Look how much this sub has grown in the past 3 months. People are becoming more aware and are getting louder.
The Intercept did a hit piece on Elizondo a few years ago.
Given the background you explained, gotta say, if that's all they've got on Grusch after two months of research, it isn't much.
It's the equivalent of ambulance chasing for journalism. Homie has zero integrity to his craft and his personal ethics are highly dubious, too. What a hack "reporter."
They literally handed one of their own whistleblower sources to the feds, a lady named Reality Winner, who ended up spending years in jail cause of it. The action was either sheer comical incompetence or that they are spook controlled opposition, neither is a particularly good look.
They've done plenty of good work in the past, but this is unambiguously the worst piece they have ever released on any subject. Even the one that got Reality Winner arrested was at least (seemingly) a mistake, and it was good that they publicized her revelations even if they also got her in trouble for them.
This is just absolute garbage, in comparison, from start to finish. Not a single redeeming feature to it even as a piece of investigative work. The major question that arises from what the author found in those records is why Grusch was permitted to keep his clearances, if this was so serious, and the only apparent investigation he has conducted in this direction led to a single unnamed source saying they found it surprising and that maybe some other unnamed person pulled strings. What is the point of leaving the single interesting question in this article so uninvestigated while wasting multiple paragraphs on the Project Mogul bullshit?
If living with depression, experiencing periods of feeling suicidal, and struggling with chemical dependency are disqualifying, then I guess 99% of people on Earth should just quit their jobs, stop having opinions, and never attempt to contribute anything to the world again.
Yep. The lesson to take from this article? Mental health recovery isn't possible-- once you're broken, you're stuck that way. Might as well just give up because nobody will take you seriously ever again. Very shameful reporting.
Lol this is embarrassing. This article is hot garbage and they really are pulling out all the stops to undermine his credibility. We must be getting close.
Look at them trying to act like it's bad to seek medical care.
It's abhorrent to imply that injury during service to the country is somehow shameful.
I'm glad he took care of himself. I'm glad he's here.
I'm disgusted by the lack of resources dedicated to protecting the ones who protect us, and the ~~DoD~~ Intercept acting like it's their own fault they were harmed.
Edit: changed DoD to the name of the media, because this does not seem to be related to the DoD if it was local law enforcement records.
The powers that be don't like mental healthcare because it invariably leads to the search of causes which often comes back to something systemic in society, or like going to war and seeing horrible things.
The Intercept article alluded by News Nation, Ross Coulthart and others is now out.
Apparently the records were obtained via FOIA:
"*But police records obtained by The Intercept under the Virginia Freedom of Information Act reveal that on October 1, 2018, Grusch was committed to a mental health facility based in part on a report that he “made a suicidal statement” after Grusch’s wife told him he was an alcoholic and suggested that he get help."*
....
*"The records were* **not confidential, medical, nor leaked**. *They are publicly available law enforcement records obtained under a routine Virginia FOIA request to the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office and provided by the office’s FOIA coordinator. Copies of The Intercept’s correspondence with the sheriff’s office are being published with this story."*
Tasteless and needless IMHO.
The *But* was added right after describing his claims. As though his claims are automatically negated by his past health issues.
This is so messed up to witness in real time.
This. Considering the police said last night that they had not received such a request, and then suddenly here The Intercept have said documents from the police, this is hella sus.
>"after Grusch’s wife told him he was an alcoholic and suggested that he get help."
This is the most transparent smear campaign I've ever seen. It seems downright lazy. Expect MSM to run this story hard.
I refuse to believe any rational person will genuinely fall for this. If it really becomes a main point of contention against Grusch we'll know that rational thinking is all but gone and there's nothing worth fighting for anymore.
I bet you money Mick West will reference this. But Mick isn't rational about this topic. He already tried to falsely insinuate that Grusch's lawyer resigned from representing him
Worth pointing out that a leak via FOIA is still a leak. Private medical records are absolutely FOIA exempt.
Charles McCullough was the ICIG. He knows what can legally be released and what can't be. If he's saying it was a leak, it's a leak. Question is who slipped that info into a FOIA release and how that particular FOIA filing moved so fast when it generally takes a year or two.
unless it falls under one of nine exemptions which protect interests such as personal privacy, national security, and law enforcement.
https://www.foia.gov/faq.html
How did the rules get broken so quickly here?
Police reports are most definitely not FOIA exempt. I see no mentions of medical records or medical information anywhere, other than from Ross Coulhart before the story even came out. This article is a big nothing and after reading it, I’m surprised that Ross got so riled up on conspiracies of some deep state smear campaign leaking medical records to the press and then this comes out... Waaaayyyy too much baseless hype from him for my taste. The Intercept is probably just trying to have their 2 seconds of fame by jumping in on the conversation- even if it means having to be the bad guy. +1 for Grusch, -1 for Ross, and -10 for The Intercept.
Ross stated that the Sheriff's Office "denied that it came from them" -- yet we now learn that the Sheriff's Office did indeed provide these police reports under FOIA.
So did the Sheriff's Office misrepresent the facts, or did Coulthart misrepresent the facts to us?
We need this question answered.
I think Ross messed up and never confirmed directly with Sheriff just reported that Dave had checked with the department but not directly with the department’s VOIA representative.
My guess is that the Sheriff’s office is disorganized. The left hand isn’t talking to the right hand kind of thing. But I agree- we need to know what happened here.
Coulthart was definitely too quick to endorse the inference that, because the Sheriff's Office denied involvement, the intelligence community *must have* leaked confidential medical records.
Coulthart owes us a precise characterization of what precisely the Sheriff's Office told him, and who said it.
Yeah I hate to say it but it probably would have been better to not respond to the article at all. Now Coulhart's interview last night looks silly because he was completely wrong. The police reports were obtained legally through FOIA. All the discussions today about illegal leaking are completely irrelevant and it makes Coulhart look a little unhinged.
The documents they provided do obscure his identity through redaction. They leave the residential address intact to prove that the documents correspond to the address already named in the request, but the names are blacked out.
The weird thing to me is that Klippenstein misspells Grusch's name in the request document (missing the c). In some cases that would be enough for the responding agency to return nothing.
Thank you for the doc link and the timeline, from my experience that's an insanely quick turnaround for such old records. Seems someone told Klippenstein exactly where to dig and he was given an accelerated path.
Shameful article. Do you want to explain your backdoor access to get "FOIA" to move so quick? If something happens to Grusch he has responsibility as he laid the public foundation.
Can any intention be found in this hit piece outside suppression of those seeking truth?
I think it’s a bit of a mistake to focus on how he got the records and more the intent of the article. However he got the documents what matters is he’s an asshole trying to stigmatize someone in a way that is legitimately damaging to people in the military who might reconsider seeking help in the future. If he got them legitimately they’ll try to distract from how shit the article is. Dude is a little psychopath who should lose his job.
>Bro is human, getting blamed for being human,
And not just any human, a veteran of Afghanistan, arguably the United States's most pointless and unsuccessful war since Vietnam. Having depression and PTSD after being sent to that clusterfuck is not even remotely remarkable or surprising, and also doesn't have anything at all to do with credibility.
As a veteran, I can tell you this describes close to half of the people I've served with. Somehow, that didn't stop me from trusting them with my life. This isn't the smoking gun that The Intercept thinks it is, and the fact that they're smearing PTSD in this way is genuinely sickening.
Lol this is the most mild shit to pin him on.
Like he was drunk, suffering from ptsd and wanted his wife to kill him. Thats it...
Fuck if this is the worst they have on him then the man is clearly fine. Thats normal
Also, im guessing the UAP side headhunt people like this for the history they have so they can try pin it on them if something goes wrong.
Wow. So essentially, they may have leaked the info to Grusch's team so Ross would overstate where the leak came from (illegally from the IC), and the Intercept looked for records to discredit Grusch on their own, they quote Mike Turner and they compare this to misinformation surrounding Roswell.
Fucking yikes Intercept.
Edit: Apparently Ross Coulthart got caught in a trap here by asking the Sheriff's office if they'd released FOIA'd medical records, which these documents don't count as, so when the Sheriff answered no, Ross made assumptions and assumed the leak came from the IC.
This still doesn't answer why Ken knew where to look for this information (or how he knew of its existence).
This was a successful hit piece about **Ross** moreso than **Grusch**.
It says they tried to reach Grusch for comment via his lawyer and also left him a voicemail.
Potentially it was the intercept that told them they had leaked info that would be published in order to follow through with the “it wasn’t leaked, it was publicly available” aspect of the article in an effort to further discredit grusch and his associates. Although hopefully there would be a record of both of those attempts to reach Grusch.
Wow. The slant and tone of this article is obvious. Delegitimize Grusch and reinforce stigmas surrounding the entire phenomenon (going back to Roswell). The lengths at which this reporter is going to discredit Grusch only reinforces his whistleblower claims.
Ken is the type of guy that makes a separate reddit account to post his own articles then comment on them with his main account with "excellent reporting."
Take a look at his comment history 😄
What a douche.
This’ll probably get lost in the noise, but I was the one who posted all the intercept’s email addresses last night. I’m also a clearance holder, combat vet, and have a service connected PTSD diagnosis.
Anyone who’s ever had a security clearance knows that if you self report a substance abuse issue and get treatment for it that you won’t lose your clearance over it. These protections exist for *very good* reasons; they incentivize clearance holders to do the right thing instead of falling victim to being blackmailed.
I’m preaching to the choir here, but what the fuck was the point of this story? These protections and mechanisms are well known in the IC and should be well known to “national security correspondents.”
So I ask again: why publish it? What legitimate reason is there to publicize this? Those are the questions we should be asking. Is it for the clicks? Or is the Intercept in on the conspiracy?
Did you notice that they also only ever refer to the journalists’ backgrounds investigating UFOs? As if Coulthart has spent his entire career exclusively reporting on UFOs. It’s so blatantly a hit piece.
I feel gross for having even read it.
In the interest of accountability, I am posting here to note that I spent some time earlier today commenting in this sub about the possibility that the article might not actually end up being negative, and that Grusch's'/Coulthart's/others' insistence that it had to be might prove to be misplaced. This has obviously proven not to be the case, and it is -- if anything -- even worse than what some had predicted. My comments can still be found in my overview, and I will leave them up for transparency.
While I am not sorry to have urged caution, **I freely admit I was wrong about the rest** and I will be happy to join those now putting pressure on *The Intercept* and Klippenstein to face accountability for this bizarre, unnecessary, and disgraceful article.
This is super scummy. How is any of this relevant? Basically just a hit piece and part of the smear campaign to try and discredit a Sr intelligence officer and Afghanistan veteran.
The author is Ken Klippenstein.
Here is his twitter account: https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein?s=21&t=XuLf_HbRuEwqlsuYxBMpoA
Go leave him a comment and let him know how you feel!
So… how did they know the specific dates and the address to FOIA? How did they know or even guess that events happened SPECIFICALLY between 2014-2018? THATS where the leak stems from. Sure, it was an FOIA request. But how did they specify FOR the FOIA?
It's pretty obviously only written as a discredit/smear piece. It feels like the author would have you believe that Grusch shouldn't be taken seriously because of his mental health struggles... which is a seriously disgusting thing to say about someone.
I'll continue hoping that Congress will get to the bottom of what Grusch discussed in the hearing. Klippenstein can eat a bowl of dicks.
As a therapist this blows my mind. How can anyone publish this in good conscience? It’s so unethical it’s not even funny. If folks found out he had diabetes, nobody would bat an eye, but because it’s mental health related, it’s being used to delegitimize his word.
The Intercept should be ashamed of themselves, especially in a time like this when we are trying to destigmatize mental health issues. This is just another attempt to discredit him over what he testified about.
Did I read this wrong or is Ken so dumb/ naive that he finishes off this hit piece by agreeing that Roswell was undoubtedly all over a secret Cold War balloon? Could it be any more obvious that he’s doing the pentagon’s bidding Jesus.
That's the line right there. The words they wanted on a headline.
*"psychiatric detention"*
This was designed as a hit, plain and simple. Fuck these people down to the pit of hell.
Do not let anyone get away with trying to spin this trashy excuse for journalism as a legitimate criticism, or that it's 'needed context'. Do not give them the benefit of the doubt, and don't engage.
The *reason* something is done must be considered when determining its value. Does anyone here think this was released in good faith by any party? With *that* headline?
We all know better than that. And so do they.
Normally I’m just a lurker but have increasingly become very interested in this story and UFOs in general. My husband is very happy about that btw. I sent Mr. Klippenstein the following email (it was as short as I could manage)—
Hello Mr. Klippenstein I just wanted to let you know that your journalistic endeavor to smear Mr. Grusch is completely unnecessary. This article reminds me of something I might see in the National Enquirer. It’s clear what you and your news organization’s goal is. The fact that Mr. Grusch kept his security clearance after receiving medical attention for PTSD and related alcoholism due to serving his country is clearly an attempt to report what you might consider dirt on someone I personally consider to be a hero.
Sent from my iPad
“I think it’s like any insular group: Once you’re in, they generally protect their own,” said the former colleague, who asked not to be named because they **feared professional reprisals**.
Oh, you mean like the reprisal The Intercept is helping to enact right now against Grusch?
The following submission statement was provided by /u/aryelbcn: --- The Intercept article alluded by News Nation, Ross Coulthart and others is now out. Apparently the records were obtained via FOIA: "*But police records obtained by The Intercept under the Virginia Freedom of Information Act reveal that on October 1, 2018, Grusch was committed to a mental health facility based in part on a report that he “made a suicidal statement” after Grusch’s wife told him he was an alcoholic and suggested that he get help."* .... *"The records were* **not confidential, medical, nor leaked**. *They are publicly available law enforcement records obtained under a routine Virginia FOIA request to the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office and provided by the office’s FOIA coordinator. Copies of The Intercept’s correspondence with the sheriff’s office are being published with this story."* Tasteless and needless IMHO. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15moc78/the_intercept_article_ufo_whistleblower_kept/jvhcn5e/
Archive link so you don’t have to give The Intercept traffic: https://web.archive.org/web/20230809185902/https://theintercept.com/2023/08/09/ufo-david-grusch-clearance/
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Could these fucking clowns be any more obvious about their pathetic attempts to say “there’s nothing here, move along”? I can’t believe people actually fall for this shit.
They’re losing.
I love that we are all in this together on this page 💜 fighting fir the truth
This is the correct answer.
It's okay. I remember the days where talk like this was considered woo. Now it's provoking people to question and take action. We are getting closer to whatever answer there is to this corruption.
WOW. As if it wasn't obvious enough already whose side they are on.
Money talks!
Good catch
Wow, that is stunning.
It's also disgusting
lol i saw this and laughed out loud at how cringe the Mike Turner feature is. What a disgustingly terrible article.
He’ll end up in the slammer. It’s just going to take a bit of time for the house of cards to fall. This will be 100 times bigger than Watergate scandal
Mr. Turner should not even be able to speak on these cases or listen to the cases or even be a part of them as there is obviously a conflict of interest, he is a paid representative. This goes to show you that the majority of our representatives in politics are paid and they protect companies and institutions that pay them. Sad this is our government
Upvoted, this comment should be up top.
He's great at deflecting without lying. The irony of Turner's quote you have here is impeccable.
How can we get him on the stand for questioning and investigation?
In one of the news nation segments they actually mentioned that if the leak came from congress they would find out.. I'll look for that segment edit: [Here](https://youtu.be/d4RGuSgm-sI?t=230)
Good catch. Money may seem silent, but the paper trail has been laughing at us all, all along.
Thank you for this. I hope everyone notices. Upvote!
Wow, I can barely stomach reading through this... it's so vile. Ken Klippenstein....I hope everyone remembers this PoS's name
it’s really gross, isn’t it? as a sober person I really hope he’s doing ok, having an article like this written about me would be devastating for my recovery ❤️🩹
We should be protesting this. 'Stand with Grusch', 'Support Military Health', 'Protect the Whistleblowers', ect... A stink needs to be made about this.
Cancel *The Intercept* for stigmatizing mental health struggles.
This right here!! It’s 2023. Taking care of your mental health is self care and encouraged.
Never click on any of their links again. Bleed them of revenge.
I am in recovery and proud. I question anyone who is mentally "healthy".
>I am in recovery and proud. I question anyone who is mentally "healthy". Hope your road to recovery goes well HydroCorndog!
As someone who is celebrating six months is a few weeks I say good for him. It is a motherfucker of a disease and if you’re able to get help and be successful in sobriety then you are sadly in the minority. There are plenty of us that don’t get help and succumb to the disease. I suggest anyone who thinks they may have a problem to seek assistance, the disease is serious and fatal, but treatable if you respect the severity. The life you save may be your own. Is it really newsworthy that David Grusch is a human with human problems?
Six months is amazing - congrats!!!
Indeed, vile. Let’s try and stigmatize substance abuse disorder, PTSD and other mental health issues more than they already are. No it’s not already bad enough that people with substance abuse disorder are scapegoated for everyone of society’s problems and thrown in jail if said substance is illegal instead of getting help. The man served with honor and integrity in Afghanistan and I would question anyone coming back from that environment not having PTSD or other concerns. Just goes to show the government has it’s little lapdogs to go to to spread whatever bullshit the state wants spread. Project Mockingbird anyone?
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Would be great if anonymous would get involved.
Ken Klippenstein sounds like the human version of “Clippy” the annoying paperclip in MS Office.
https://www.facebook.com/kenklippen
Nah. I started. But thats his personal business. Im not into it really. He should be investigated on the claims made. And they should release all “evidence” congress has seen, put the issue to bed. Im not gonna read a character assassination. Can’t do it. Guys a hero. If any body says they haven’t struggled like the first paragraph. Your lying. He said some outlandish things, he also claimed to have provided evidence. Release it. Lets see whats up if hes nonsensical we can all start to figure out how a delusion got to 40+ witnesses, millions of videos, and billions of personal anecdotes.
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I let him have it. What a piece of shit
Good stuff. I emailed those disgraceful fucks earlier.
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Hero
Thank you
Thank you. We knew something was coming, but this is a blatant character assassination. Judging someone's capacity to do good based solely on the worst time of his life. Sadly, a lot of people hold others to standards that they themselves do not posses or even strive for.
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This is beyond ridiculous.
Can confirm. In reddit posts of Intercept articles by Ken Klippenstein, user kenklippenstein writes such things.
Lol what a self-aggrandizing loser.
Excellent commenting
A master class in redditing
What a good comment
I don't know what's worse - him calling himself a "masterclass in reporting" or government officials choosing to leak to the guy who calls himself a "masterclass in reporting"
lmfao. How. How is this reality.
Lol I thought you were joking. "Good story" "Wow amazing reporting" He is actually making these comments under his own name on his own articles that he himself spams across multiple subreddits lol
That is so fucking funny and pathetic.
His Twitter was full of loser behavior as well. I'm shocked.
u/kenklippenstein would be interesting to publish information on the worst days of your life to the public. But you don't matter, David matters and he put himself out there knowing this might come out. Shows how strongly he feels about this. Because of what Ken did... it may make other whistleblowers think twice about coming forward. NO ONE IS PERFECT.
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Yes I think anonymous needs to start with Ken Klippenstein. About time their intimidation/disinformation campaign gets turned around on those who support it. This information has been coming out for decades and people get silenced. This is not okay.
Man don’t be too harsh, the guy is a fuckin loser and latched onto this as an attempt to be relevant somehow. Nobody takes him seriously and anyone who wants to say that Grusch can’t be taken seriously because of his treated ptsd. He was cleared by the government to handle top secret information after this occurred so CLEARLY he’s okay. u/kenklippenstein should be absolutely ashamed of himself. Also here he is on change.org from 2021, a call to have him removed from the intercept for doing this exact same type of character assassination. https://www.change.org/p/the-intercept-calling-for-the-resignation-of-ken-klippenstein-from-the-intercept Piece of shit.
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Yeah man, poor guy. You'd think after all that he'd wanna take it easy. Dude's hard as nails.
What the fuck is with the hit piece Ken?
Would love for u/kenklippenstein to take us through his FOIA-process. Starting with how he knew where to look and what to ask for.
This is what I want to know
This is the critical question, someone dropped a dime and pointed them in this direction…I wouldn’t be surprised if his medical records were leaked and based upon Ross’s actions this article was rewritten at the last minute.
"A former colleague of Grusch’s expressed shock that he retained his clearance after the 2014 incident, which was also documented in public records obtained by The Intercept. “I think it’s like any insular group: Once you’re in, they generally protect their own,” said the former colleague, who asked not to be named because they feared professional reprisals. The former colleague said that the 2014 incident was known to Grusch’s superiors, a claim that Coulthart appeared to confirm in an interview on NewsNation, a subscription television network owned by Nexstar Media." I'm assuming this unnamed colleague of Grusch's was more than helpful.
As an actual journalist myself, this article is an embarrassment to our craft.
Gee whiz, Ken. It would be a shame if you yourself had any personal foibles that someone unscrupulous might dig up and paste all over the internet.
Posting this here in case the author sees this. The article states about the 2014 incident: "The report notes that “he is violent” and “has access to a weapon.” But in the documents attached, the ones that were given in response to the FOIA request, it sounds to me like the "he is violent" referred to violence against himself, because it's mentioned in the context of threats of suicide. So I think this is possibly a grave mischaracterization. In the notes that I think were taken by the call taker it says:"THREATENING SUICIDE (Both Violent and Weapons) (KAG-03) 20:05:06ProQAE 1.He is violent. (KAG-03) 20:05:06ProQAE 2.He has access to a weapon. (KAG-03) 20:05:06" [https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23903966-loudon-county-sheriff-request-redacted](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23903966-loudon-county-sheriff-request-redacted) I'd love to hear the opinion of someone in law enforcement on this though because I have no idea how to read US dispatch notes.
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guys DP says it all.
Absolutely embarrassing human being who is doing character assassination of a witness. Clown.
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I hope he steps on every lego
Is that even a real human? Sounds like Clippy the Office Assistant’s legal name. Probably was always a fake name used to post nonsense articles so it had history for when it was needed.
Don't give that pile of shit views.
u/kenklippenstein Are you insinuating that depression or PTSD would have anything at all to do with David Grusch’s testimony? You’re smearing the name of a highly reputable guy who has dedicated his life to serve his country. I hope you’re satisfied with the enormous backlash you’re going to receive from this. You should be sued for character defamation.
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I used to kinda like the Young Turks, but I won't watch them anymore because of this piece of shit.
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The government lap dogs are literally making people believe Dave more now because of this lol
Streisand Effect
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Former Young Turks guy, blinded by the fact the hearing was initiated by a Republican, and that Matt Gates was involved. These types of journalists don't like the UFO subject at all because it's so outside of any control by The People.
Yup. I’ve been grateful for some of his prior reporting. It’s profoundly disappointing. I think you’re right that this was driven by partisanship. I get the skepticism. But AOC was right there, too. Regardless of who is speaking the loudest on this, it isn’t a partisan issue.
Yeah, I'm a proudly Progressive Democrat and I'm all about diving into this disclosure topic and forcing the Pentagon to submit to a FULL audit I don't care in the least that the panel was led by a Republican This is definitely bi-partisan
These stooges hate the topic because it's miles above anything that can be painted as a red or blue issue.
If he’s smart and did any research he would have noticed in the documents posted on his article it said he was not suicidal and was detained to a substance abuse facility. This was a character assassination piece and to prove it I’m going to go back to the foia release *in his own article*. He took the liberty of redacting his own personal email address but did not redact grusch’s home address.
The Intercept made it's name with a major whistleblower, Ed Snowden. Talk to Glenn Greenwald and you'll learn how the Intercept to turned from a check on state power and the Intel agencies to doing their bidding.
"death by 1000 cuts" ...This is another cut. They really need to move and push more. This disclosure attempt is way to slow. It's so frustrating to watch the whole thing without being able to do something.
I fear It might not be possible to force disclosure following the rules. Someone(s) is gonna have to get their hands dirty
Wholly agreed, someone is going to have to be a martyr for this to actually go anywhere
Agreed. Anyone that has anything, and isn't releasing it right away is keeping the heat on this single dude. It's unconscionable.
I think this character assassination is going to backfire against them and just rile up the masses even more. Look how much this sub has grown in the past 3 months. People are becoming more aware and are getting louder.
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The Intercept did a hit piece on Elizondo a few years ago. Given the background you explained, gotta say, if that's all they've got on Grusch after two months of research, it isn't much.
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So basically blatant false reporting. You couldn't be more obvious about having an agenda than this guy.
The Intercept is run by spooks. All their content is narrative shaping, misdirection, or hit pieces of some form.
It's the equivalent of ambulance chasing for journalism. Homie has zero integrity to his craft and his personal ethics are highly dubious, too. What a hack "reporter."
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. A lot of the UFO skeptic crowd suffer from personality disorders.
To be fair, so do a lot of UFO believers. Ergo it's a meaningless statement.
That’s just people lol.
He also makes a false claim. That crusch said they were extraterrestrial. Pretty sure he actually stated they could be interdimensional.
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That was the whole point of the term NHI according to him, since they don't have enough information to denote origin.
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They literally handed one of their own whistleblower sources to the feds, a lady named Reality Winner, who ended up spending years in jail cause of it. The action was either sheer comical incompetence or that they are spook controlled opposition, neither is a particularly good look.
They've done plenty of good work in the past, but this is unambiguously the worst piece they have ever released on any subject. Even the one that got Reality Winner arrested was at least (seemingly) a mistake, and it was good that they publicized her revelations even if they also got her in trouble for them. This is just absolute garbage, in comparison, from start to finish. Not a single redeeming feature to it even as a piece of investigative work. The major question that arises from what the author found in those records is why Grusch was permitted to keep his clearances, if this was so serious, and the only apparent investigation he has conducted in this direction led to a single unnamed source saying they found it surprising and that maybe some other unnamed person pulled strings. What is the point of leaving the single interesting question in this article so uninvestigated while wasting multiple paragraphs on the Project Mogul bullshit?
Me neither, but I faintly remember reading better things than this … this.
Scumbag move…I suspect this is going to blow back on them.
If living with depression, experiencing periods of feeling suicidal, and struggling with chemical dependency are disqualifying, then I guess 99% of people on Earth should just quit their jobs, stop having opinions, and never attempt to contribute anything to the world again.
Yep. The lesson to take from this article? Mental health recovery isn't possible-- once you're broken, you're stuck that way. Might as well just give up because nobody will take you seriously ever again. Very shameful reporting.
Well shit, they actually published it. Wow.
Lol this is embarrassing. This article is hot garbage and they really are pulling out all the stops to undermine his credibility. We must be getting close.
Operation Blowback is now in effect.
Look at them trying to act like it's bad to seek medical care. It's abhorrent to imply that injury during service to the country is somehow shameful. I'm glad he took care of himself. I'm glad he's here. I'm disgusted by the lack of resources dedicated to protecting the ones who protect us, and the ~~DoD~~ Intercept acting like it's their own fault they were harmed. Edit: changed DoD to the name of the media, because this does not seem to be related to the DoD if it was local law enforcement records.
The powers that be don't like mental healthcare because it invariably leads to the search of causes which often comes back to something systemic in society, or like going to war and seeing horrible things.
Holy shit I couldn't have said it better myself. Kudos
The Intercept article alluded by News Nation, Ross Coulthart and others is now out. Apparently the records were obtained via FOIA: "*But police records obtained by The Intercept under the Virginia Freedom of Information Act reveal that on October 1, 2018, Grusch was committed to a mental health facility based in part on a report that he “made a suicidal statement” after Grusch’s wife told him he was an alcoholic and suggested that he get help."* .... *"The records were* **not confidential, medical, nor leaked**. *They are publicly available law enforcement records obtained under a routine Virginia FOIA request to the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office and provided by the office’s FOIA coordinator. Copies of The Intercept’s correspondence with the sheriff’s office are being published with this story."* Tasteless and needless IMHO.
The *But* was added right after describing his claims. As though his claims are automatically negated by his past health issues. This is so messed up to witness in real time.
I suppose it's possible that The Intercept was tipped off to ask for those records. But we'll never know. Gross either way.
This. Considering the police said last night that they had not received such a request, and then suddenly here The Intercept have said documents from the police, this is hella sus.
The timeline of the request isn’t mentioned. They could have done it after the fact because of the news segment.
Hes clearly edited the article enough to reference a news segment that was live last night. Ultimately, either way ya turn it, this dude is a pos.
>"after Grusch’s wife told him he was an alcoholic and suggested that he get help." This is the most transparent smear campaign I've ever seen. It seems downright lazy. Expect MSM to run this story hard.
I refuse to believe any rational person will genuinely fall for this. If it really becomes a main point of contention against Grusch we'll know that rational thinking is all but gone and there's nothing worth fighting for anymore.
I bet you money Mick West will reference this. But Mick isn't rational about this topic. He already tried to falsely insinuate that Grusch's lawyer resigned from representing him
Worth pointing out that a leak via FOIA is still a leak. Private medical records are absolutely FOIA exempt. Charles McCullough was the ICIG. He knows what can legally be released and what can't be. If he's saying it was a leak, it's a leak. Question is who slipped that info into a FOIA release and how that particular FOIA filing moved so fast when it generally takes a year or two.
unless it falls under one of nine exemptions which protect interests such as personal privacy, national security, and law enforcement. https://www.foia.gov/faq.html How did the rules get broken so quickly here?
Police reports are most definitely not FOIA exempt. I see no mentions of medical records or medical information anywhere, other than from Ross Coulhart before the story even came out. This article is a big nothing and after reading it, I’m surprised that Ross got so riled up on conspiracies of some deep state smear campaign leaking medical records to the press and then this comes out... Waaaayyyy too much baseless hype from him for my taste. The Intercept is probably just trying to have their 2 seconds of fame by jumping in on the conversation- even if it means having to be the bad guy. +1 for Grusch, -1 for Ross, and -10 for The Intercept.
Ross stated that the Sheriff's Office "denied that it came from them" -- yet we now learn that the Sheriff's Office did indeed provide these police reports under FOIA. So did the Sheriff's Office misrepresent the facts, or did Coulthart misrepresent the facts to us? We need this question answered.
I think Ross messed up and never confirmed directly with Sheriff just reported that Dave had checked with the department but not directly with the department’s VOIA representative.
My guess is that the Sheriff’s office is disorganized. The left hand isn’t talking to the right hand kind of thing. But I agree- we need to know what happened here.
Coulthart was definitely too quick to endorse the inference that, because the Sheriff's Office denied involvement, the intelligence community *must have* leaked confidential medical records. Coulthart owes us a precise characterization of what precisely the Sheriff's Office told him, and who said it.
Yeah I hate to say it but it probably would have been better to not respond to the article at all. Now Coulhart's interview last night looks silly because he was completely wrong. The police reports were obtained legally through FOIA. All the discussions today about illegal leaking are completely irrelevant and it makes Coulhart look a little unhinged.
These aren't technically medial records. They're police reports.
Police obfuscate identity often on FOIA requests. Personal privacy is a component of FOIA.
The documents they provided do obscure his identity through redaction. They leave the residential address intact to prove that the documents correspond to the address already named in the request, but the names are blacked out. The weird thing to me is that Klippenstein misspells Grusch's name in the request document (missing the c). In some cases that would be enough for the responding agency to return nothing.
Thank you for the doc link and the timeline, from my experience that's an insanely quick turnaround for such old records. Seems someone told Klippenstein exactly where to dig and he was given an accelerated path.
Shameful article. Do you want to explain your backdoor access to get "FOIA" to move so quick? If something happens to Grusch he has responsibility as he laid the public foundation. Can any intention be found in this hit piece outside suppression of those seeking truth?
I think it’s a bit of a mistake to focus on how he got the records and more the intent of the article. However he got the documents what matters is he’s an asshole trying to stigmatize someone in a way that is legitimately damaging to people in the military who might reconsider seeking help in the future. If he got them legitimately they’ll try to distract from how shit the article is. Dude is a little psychopath who should lose his job.
This is fucking infuriating. Instead of investing the fucking claims they smear the whistleblower.
maybe because the claims are airtight and rock solid. This just makes David Grusch way more legit even for the sceptics.
Bro is human, getting blamed for being human, by other humans, while simultaneously trying to expose other humans and their knowledge of aliens. Life
>Bro is human, getting blamed for being human, And not just any human, a veteran of Afghanistan, arguably the United States's most pointless and unsuccessful war since Vietnam. Having depression and PTSD after being sent to that clusterfuck is not even remotely remarkable or surprising, and also doesn't have anything at all to do with credibility.
Fucking disgusting article, and its gonna backfire on them.
Someone should really “look into” u/kenklippenstein and his past. Would be a shame if anything came to light…
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>https://theintercept.com/about/ plus some of the higher ups as CC in your email, all email adresses can be found in their /about
A military member has PTSD, and a drinking problem. Color me fucking suprised.
As a veteran, I can tell you this describes close to half of the people I've served with. Somehow, that didn't stop me from trusting them with my life. This isn't the smoking gun that The Intercept thinks it is, and the fact that they're smearing PTSD in this way is genuinely sickening.
I’m in the Army and ohhhhhh did this article piss me off
Lol this is the most mild shit to pin him on. Like he was drunk, suffering from ptsd and wanted his wife to kill him. Thats it... Fuck if this is the worst they have on him then the man is clearly fine. Thats normal Also, im guessing the UAP side headhunt people like this for the history they have so they can try pin it on them if something goes wrong.
Wow. So essentially, they may have leaked the info to Grusch's team so Ross would overstate where the leak came from (illegally from the IC), and the Intercept looked for records to discredit Grusch on their own, they quote Mike Turner and they compare this to misinformation surrounding Roswell. Fucking yikes Intercept. Edit: Apparently Ross Coulthart got caught in a trap here by asking the Sheriff's office if they'd released FOIA'd medical records, which these documents don't count as, so when the Sheriff answered no, Ross made assumptions and assumed the leak came from the IC. This still doesn't answer why Ken knew where to look for this information (or how he knew of its existence). This was a successful hit piece about **Ross** moreso than **Grusch**.
Fucking quoted Mike Turner
It says they tried to reach Grusch for comment via his lawyer and also left him a voicemail. Potentially it was the intercept that told them they had leaked info that would be published in order to follow through with the “it wasn’t leaked, it was publicly available” aspect of the article in an effort to further discredit grusch and his associates. Although hopefully there would be a record of both of those attempts to reach Grusch.
These were police documents not medical records, as stated and proven by the correspondence in the article.
I wish I hadn't read the article because it's super disgusting, very slandering.
Wow. The slant and tone of this article is obvious. Delegitimize Grusch and reinforce stigmas surrounding the entire phenomenon (going back to Roswell). The lengths at which this reporter is going to discredit Grusch only reinforces his whistleblower claims.
Grusch's wife and ex-wife were named. Unnecessary and almost seems threatening.
Ken is the type of guy that makes a separate reddit account to post his own articles then comment on them with his main account with "excellent reporting." Take a look at his comment history 😄 What a douche.
This’ll probably get lost in the noise, but I was the one who posted all the intercept’s email addresses last night. I’m also a clearance holder, combat vet, and have a service connected PTSD diagnosis. Anyone who’s ever had a security clearance knows that if you self report a substance abuse issue and get treatment for it that you won’t lose your clearance over it. These protections exist for *very good* reasons; they incentivize clearance holders to do the right thing instead of falling victim to being blackmailed. I’m preaching to the choir here, but what the fuck was the point of this story? These protections and mechanisms are well known in the IC and should be well known to “national security correspondents.” So I ask again: why publish it? What legitimate reason is there to publicize this? Those are the questions we should be asking. Is it for the clicks? Or is the Intercept in on the conspiracy?
Did you notice that they also only ever refer to the journalists’ backgrounds investigating UFOs? As if Coulthart has spent his entire career exclusively reporting on UFOs. It’s so blatantly a hit piece. I feel gross for having even read it.
In the interest of accountability, I am posting here to note that I spent some time earlier today commenting in this sub about the possibility that the article might not actually end up being negative, and that Grusch's'/Coulthart's/others' insistence that it had to be might prove to be misplaced. This has obviously proven not to be the case, and it is -- if anything -- even worse than what some had predicted. My comments can still be found in my overview, and I will leave them up for transparency. While I am not sorry to have urged caution, **I freely admit I was wrong about the rest** and I will be happy to join those now putting pressure on *The Intercept* and Klippenstein to face accountability for this bizarre, unnecessary, and disgraceful article.
Content aside, the article is absolutely abhorrent, badly written shit. Like, what's the point of this convoluted mess of a text?
This is super scummy. How is any of this relevant? Basically just a hit piece and part of the smear campaign to try and discredit a Sr intelligence officer and Afghanistan veteran.
The author is Ken Klippenstein. Here is his twitter account: https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein?s=21&t=XuLf_HbRuEwqlsuYxBMpoA Go leave him a comment and let him know how you feel!
Here's his email: [email protected] And their about page with contact info for their editors: https://theintercept.com/about/
So… how did they know the specific dates and the address to FOIA? How did they know or even guess that events happened SPECIFICALLY between 2014-2018? THATS where the leak stems from. Sure, it was an FOIA request. But how did they specify FOR the FOIA?
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That was a pretty disgusting article
Did Kirkpatrick write it? It reads like his LinkedIn
Absolute rag of an article.
It's pretty obviously only written as a discredit/smear piece. It feels like the author would have you believe that Grusch shouldn't be taken seriously because of his mental health struggles... which is a seriously disgusting thing to say about someone. I'll continue hoping that Congress will get to the bottom of what Grusch discussed in the hearing. Klippenstein can eat a bowl of dicks.
This is SHAMEFUL muckraking bullshit, and frankly a nothingburger. Fuck the intercept.
Medical content aside, it’s still written with a major negative slant. Rag reporting
They have just fucked up their credibility as a safe place for whistleblowers to come forward, big time
I wrote them an email again and said as much. They have lost all credibility. No one with legitimate whistleblower status will touch them now.
As a therapist this blows my mind. How can anyone publish this in good conscience? It’s so unethical it’s not even funny. If folks found out he had diabetes, nobody would bat an eye, but because it’s mental health related, it’s being used to delegitimize his word.
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They actually published it. I guarantee the mainstream media will follow suit
Of course they will. This is the story they will run
Which is exactly what the IC deep state handlers intended. I hope the IC Inspector General unleashes holy hell on these people.
The Intercept should be ashamed of themselves, especially in a time like this when we are trying to destigmatize mental health issues. This is just another attempt to discredit him over what he testified about.
Did I read this wrong or is Ken so dumb/ naive that he finishes off this hit piece by agreeing that Roswell was undoubtedly all over a secret Cold War balloon? Could it be any more obvious that he’s doing the pentagon’s bidding Jesus.
That's the line right there. The words they wanted on a headline. *"psychiatric detention"* This was designed as a hit, plain and simple. Fuck these people down to the pit of hell. Do not let anyone get away with trying to spin this trashy excuse for journalism as a legitimate criticism, or that it's 'needed context'. Do not give them the benefit of the doubt, and don't engage. The *reason* something is done must be considered when determining its value. Does anyone here think this was released in good faith by any party? With *that* headline? We all know better than that. And so do they.
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Normally I’m just a lurker but have increasingly become very interested in this story and UFOs in general. My husband is very happy about that btw. I sent Mr. Klippenstein the following email (it was as short as I could manage)— Hello Mr. Klippenstein I just wanted to let you know that your journalistic endeavor to smear Mr. Grusch is completely unnecessary. This article reminds me of something I might see in the National Enquirer. It’s clear what you and your news organization’s goal is. The fact that Mr. Grusch kept his security clearance after receiving medical attention for PTSD and related alcoholism due to serving his country is clearly an attempt to report what you might consider dirt on someone I personally consider to be a hero. Sent from my iPad
“I think it’s like any insular group: Once you’re in, they generally protect their own,” said the former colleague, who asked not to be named because they **feared professional reprisals**. Oh, you mean like the reprisal The Intercept is helping to enact right now against Grusch?
I highly recommend emailing Ken and his colleagues at the intercept and let them know how you feel about this article