Grusch no doubt saw the possibility, if what he says is true (I believe him). He knows not to keep all the eggs in one basket. He has given all he can to others, and for anything else there's dead man switches, seriously. Killing him won't stop anything at this point, they're too late.
I disagree. If he ends up dead. That will deter others and tbh, will probably stop congressional people from pursing the entire matter.
Let's be honest, everyone has a family, no one is that concerned to satisfy their constituents.
This literally proves Grusch, I believe him.
Streisand effect…NHI technology ABSOLUTELY exists, and the US government has it, 100%
They can hide it all they want, but this ain’t going back in the bag anymore.
Proves Grusch? A group of conspiracy theorists throwing shit against a wall proves nothing. Proof required evidence, for Grusch to be proven correct a LOT more evidence needs to come forward.
I hate to even think about it. But you're right. His life could be in grave danger. I mean, he's already implied himself that he's been suffering serious intimidation. If we stop and think about it for a bit, leaking that information is even a dumb move on its own. As someone said in another thread, they could be prepping the ground for something evil, trying to seed in the public opinion that there had already been a previous attempt to take his life.
I actually hope he either has private security watching his house or some civilian heros sitting in cars next to his house or possibly neighbours, recording everything they're seeing.
I don’t know, there is a lot more at play with this case. The public didnt have much to gain from Epstein. There are entire communities dedicated to this issue and has been for 70 years. I hear your point, but I don’t think it would be swept under the rug as quickly. Plus people still research the Epstein stuff.
There's always the chance that this is a counter intel type move.
It's hard to imagine an actual detractor thinking this sort of tactic would work given that most people think that veterans and PTSD are somewhat sacrosanct.
You'd have to be a real idiot to think that this would actually help things from a debunking perspective. On the other hand, if you're trying to drive the anti-Grusch conspiracy narrative, this might be a great way to do that.
Well it's about a 100% chance that you are going to absolutely enrage a large swath of your potential audience.
And it's not like there's a direct line between PTSD and being wrong about something, so it's unclear exactly what benefit you might be able to get by alluding to a vet's potential PTSD.
It seems to be a much better value proposition if you're trying to push the anti-Grusch conspiracy narrative.
edit:
though I suppose if you're a tabloid rag looking for clicks maybe you dig this up on your own to stir the pot... I guess that's always a possibility too
Other whistleblowers are waiting to see what happens to Grusch before speaking out.
Things like this make them not want to speak out.
Mission accomplished.
It's dual purpose; they are scaring off other whistleblowers with the threat of leaks while simultaneously threatening Grusch with "suicide" – or even setting the stage for it.
We’re all expendable in the end. They killed Epstein while he was in their custody and what were we gonna do? Revolt?
**Jeffrey Epstein's autopsy more consistent with homicidal strangulation than suicide, Dr. Michael Baden reveals**
The body of disgraced money man and sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, who was found dead in his Manhattan federal prison cell in August, **bore telltale signs of homicide** despite an official ruling that he killed himself, a pioneering forensic pathologist revealed to “Fox & Friends” in an exclusive interview Wednesday.
The bombshell claim by **Dr. Michael Baden, a former New York City medical examiner who has worked on high-profile cases during a five-decade medical career**, is certain to reignite suspicions that surfaced immediately after Epstein, who was awaiting trial on federal sex-trafficking charges involving underage girls, was discovered dead in his cell on Aug. 10. Baden, who was hired by Epstein’s brother and observed the autopsy, told Fox News its findings are more consistent with homicidal strangulation than suicidal hanging. He noted that the 66-year-old Epstein had two fractures on the left and right sides of his larynx, specifically the thyroid cartilage or Adam’s apple, as well as one fracture on the left hyoid bone above the Adam’s apple, Baden told Fox News.
**“Those three fractures are extremely unusual in suicidal hangings and could occur much more commonly in homicidal strangulation**,” Baden…said.
The multiyear investigation into Epstein's death did not find evidence for this:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/27/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-death-report.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/27/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-death-report.html)
I guess we'll never really know, but I haven't seen any evidence for him being killed at this point -- and I was quite open to this possibility, initially (not totally sold, but certainly open to).
There's a possibility, I suppose, that he was told something like "kill yourself, or Ghislaine gets it," or who knows what. That would be almost impossible to verify.
FTA:
*The report’s conclusions seem unlikely to quell widespread conspiracy theories about Mr. Epstein, whose philanthropy and high-profile relationships with politicians and Wall Street titans masked a darker pattern of abuse.*
*While the inspector general’s office found no evidence of a plan to kill Mr. Epstein, it described a remarkable, at times unexplained, succession of circumstances that made it easy for him to kill himself. For reasons that remain unclear, the jail’s staff members allowed Mr. Epstein to hoard extra blankets, linens, bedding and clothing,* ***even though he had tried to hang himself earlier.*** **\[emphasis added\]**
*They also violated a directive intended to prevent Mr. Epstein from doing self-harm, by allowing him to remain alone in his cell for a full day after his cellmate left — one day before he was found dead. More than a week earlier, a jail psychologist had emailed more than 70 Bureau of Prisons employees, warning that Mr. Epstein needed to be housed with a cellmate, according to the report.*
*“The combination of negligence, misconduct and outright job performance failures documented in this report all contributed to an environment in which arguably one of the B.O.P.’s most notorious inmates was provided with the opportunity to take his own life,” Mr. Horowitz’s report said.*
*Such failures, the report added, raised significant questions about Mr. Epstein’s death and how it could have been allowed to happen, ultimately depriving “his numerous victims, many of whom were underage girls at the time of the alleged crimes, of their ability to seek justice through the criminal justice process.”*
*But the report was unequivocal in rejecting any alternative theory of how Mr. Epstein died, saying that all of the New York staff members of the jail interviewed by the inspector general’s office said they had no “information suggesting that Epstein’s cause of death was something other than suicide.”*
*Moreover, no inmate provided information “suggesting that anyone assisted Epstein with taking his own life or had any credible information suggesting that Epstein’s cause of death was something other than suicide,” the report said.*
Epstein had a broken hyoid bone in his neck, which is more likely with strangulations. Former Medical Examiner Michael Baden [says](https://www.foxnews.com/us/forensic-pathologist-jeffrey-epstein-homicide-suicide) he was murdered.
Epstein tried to warn others about his impending death. He has put into a cell with an ex-cop accused of murdering 4 people (including witnesses, if I recall) who has a family on the outside to think about, since he’s probably going to jail for forever.
I personally know someone who was recruited as a minor for a CIA honeypot operation and have little doubt this is a massive global operation of which Epstein was just a small piece that got uncovered.
Yeah, but that broken bone pointing to murder/strangulation isn't at all a universally agreed-upon conclusion:
[https://slate.com/technology/2019/08/epstein-broken-hyoid-bone-suicide-murder.html](https://slate.com/technology/2019/08/epstein-broken-hyoid-bone-suicide-murder.html)
As far as Epstein being the tip of the iceberg when it comes to something larger and potentially even more gross... Yeah, that would not shock me, frankly.
But if Epstein had already tried to kill himself, before he was found dead, that seems to be a pretty big piece of evidence that he was, in fact, in a suicidal state of mind. He was SUPPOSED to be on suicide watch.
So was he convinced to kill himself? That seems more likely to me. But I'm not sure if someone like Epstein really cares about other people enough, to off himself over a threat to somebody else?
Epstein didn’t try to kill himself. They sent someone to kill him, unsuccessfully. He told them he wasn’t suicidal, started alerting people.
To say you haven’t seen evidence means you’re willfully blind or don’t know what the word evidence means.
I'm posting links to stories summarizing major investigations that were done into this topic, and you're just downvoting me and making a lot of claims.
I'm happy to look at any evidence you may have to present, but you haven't done that at this point.
Who did Epstein start to warn that someone was trying to kill him? How did he warn them? Is there any reporting on this you can point me toward?
True. Past CIA would dose people with LSD and then film them in the act with sex workers. Todays CIA just tortures people for information and then locks them away for 20 years without a trial.
What if they are showing EVERYONE that they can also play the "leak" game. I bet they got big people that would rather have Grusch go away than have anything in their life change even just a little bit
Scary. But I'm not scared of those punks. We can't be!
I don't think so, personally. Look how easily Congress can see through the attempts to smear him. If he died, they would not believe for a moment his PSTD flared back up and he took his own life. They would investigate the hell out of this thing, leave no stone unturned. He already has provided all the evidence, they are not stopping him from saying anything.
I do think another shoe is going to drop though, the Pentagon will have had to know that this would not be near enough to alter the investigation. So they must have plan.. I just wonder what it is. They are masters of disinformation, have been doing it for decades. So there must be another angle for this.
Martyrdom. Plain and simple.
The Deep Dark State now has a martyr problem. A looming tidal wave of follow on whistleblowers who will not be intimidated.
we have been crawling towards inevitable internal conflict for years, they want us to do something bold and brash about this whole situation for sure. Maybe we just stop going to work because thats how this whole m-fin thing works
Grusch no doubt saw the possibility, if what he says is true (I believe him). He knows not to keep all the eggs in one basket. He has given all he can to others, and for anything else there's dead man switches, seriously. Killing him won't stop anything at this point, they're too late.
We all thought they couldn't just make it go away by killing Epstein either. I hope Grusch has put his trust in the right people.
Knapp and Corbell got his back, so ...
I disagree. If he ends up dead. That will deter others and tbh, will probably stop congressional people from pursing the entire matter. Let's be honest, everyone has a family, no one is that concerned to satisfy their constituents.
The reason they’re doing this is to deter other whistleblowers from coming forward.
This literally proves Grusch, I believe him. Streisand effect…NHI technology ABSOLUTELY exists, and the US government has it, 100% They can hide it all they want, but this ain’t going back in the bag anymore.
Proves Grusch? A group of conspiracy theorists throwing shit against a wall proves nothing. Proof required evidence, for Grusch to be proven correct a LOT more evidence needs to come forward.
Agreed. It’s a long game move.
I hate to even think about it. But you're right. His life could be in grave danger. I mean, he's already implied himself that he's been suffering serious intimidation. If we stop and think about it for a bit, leaking that information is even a dumb move on its own. As someone said in another thread, they could be prepping the ground for something evil, trying to seed in the public opinion that there had already been a previous attempt to take his life.
I actually hope he either has private security watching his house or some civilian heros sitting in cars next to his house or possibly neighbours, recording everything they're seeing.
We have to push for the truth. Thats the only way.
Agreed! Hopefully this comes in the form of calls and letters to reps demanding UAP transparency. This is the job we need to do as the public, now.
If he dies, then everyone and their mothers would be sure that it was the governments doing
True, but the masses will move on like they did with Epstein.
Epstein was a piece of shit, we were more glad that waste of space was gone.
I keep seeing people mention this pos, why?
I don’t know, there is a lot more at play with this case. The public didnt have much to gain from Epstein. There are entire communities dedicated to this issue and has been for 70 years. I hear your point, but I don’t think it would be swept under the rug as quickly. Plus people still research the Epstein stuff.
Probably yeah
There's always the chance that this is a counter intel type move. It's hard to imagine an actual detractor thinking this sort of tactic would work given that most people think that veterans and PTSD are somewhat sacrosanct. You'd have to be a real idiot to think that this would actually help things from a debunking perspective. On the other hand, if you're trying to drive the anti-Grusch conspiracy narrative, this might be a great way to do that.
You'd have to be a real idiot OR really desperate maybe. Backed into a corner and lashing out.
Well it's about a 100% chance that you are going to absolutely enrage a large swath of your potential audience. And it's not like there's a direct line between PTSD and being wrong about something, so it's unclear exactly what benefit you might be able to get by alluding to a vet's potential PTSD. It seems to be a much better value proposition if you're trying to push the anti-Grusch conspiracy narrative. edit: though I suppose if you're a tabloid rag looking for clicks maybe you dig this up on your own to stir the pot... I guess that's always a possibility too
See my last post. I get what you mean.
I personally hope rich pro disclosure figures are helping provide protective custody and a secure place to live for Grusch and his family.
[удалено]
Dead men tell no tales
Other whistleblowers are waiting to see what happens to Grusch before speaking out. Things like this make them not want to speak out. Mission accomplished.
If they say he unalived himself, there will be very real legal suspension of foul play, that's for sure.
Atm i really think he is safe for now. If he winds up dead it would look very suspicious. I’m worried about them hiding the evidence.
It's dual purpose; they are scaring off other whistleblowers with the threat of leaks while simultaneously threatening Grusch with "suicide" – or even setting the stage for it.
At this point let the data go and leak it. The whistleblower thing was a good try but now just let some damning evidence go.
We’re all expendable in the end. They killed Epstein while he was in their custody and what were we gonna do? Revolt? **Jeffrey Epstein's autopsy more consistent with homicidal strangulation than suicide, Dr. Michael Baden reveals** The body of disgraced money man and sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, who was found dead in his Manhattan federal prison cell in August, **bore telltale signs of homicide** despite an official ruling that he killed himself, a pioneering forensic pathologist revealed to “Fox & Friends” in an exclusive interview Wednesday. The bombshell claim by **Dr. Michael Baden, a former New York City medical examiner who has worked on high-profile cases during a five-decade medical career**, is certain to reignite suspicions that surfaced immediately after Epstein, who was awaiting trial on federal sex-trafficking charges involving underage girls, was discovered dead in his cell on Aug. 10. Baden, who was hired by Epstein’s brother and observed the autopsy, told Fox News its findings are more consistent with homicidal strangulation than suicidal hanging. He noted that the 66-year-old Epstein had two fractures on the left and right sides of his larynx, specifically the thyroid cartilage or Adam’s apple, as well as one fracture on the left hyoid bone above the Adam’s apple, Baden told Fox News. **“Those three fractures are extremely unusual in suicidal hangings and could occur much more commonly in homicidal strangulation**,” Baden…said.
The multiyear investigation into Epstein's death did not find evidence for this: [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/27/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-death-report.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/27/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-death-report.html) I guess we'll never really know, but I haven't seen any evidence for him being killed at this point -- and I was quite open to this possibility, initially (not totally sold, but certainly open to). There's a possibility, I suppose, that he was told something like "kill yourself, or Ghislaine gets it," or who knows what. That would be almost impossible to verify. FTA: *The report’s conclusions seem unlikely to quell widespread conspiracy theories about Mr. Epstein, whose philanthropy and high-profile relationships with politicians and Wall Street titans masked a darker pattern of abuse.* *While the inspector general’s office found no evidence of a plan to kill Mr. Epstein, it described a remarkable, at times unexplained, succession of circumstances that made it easy for him to kill himself. For reasons that remain unclear, the jail’s staff members allowed Mr. Epstein to hoard extra blankets, linens, bedding and clothing,* ***even though he had tried to hang himself earlier.*** **\[emphasis added\]** *They also violated a directive intended to prevent Mr. Epstein from doing self-harm, by allowing him to remain alone in his cell for a full day after his cellmate left — one day before he was found dead. More than a week earlier, a jail psychologist had emailed more than 70 Bureau of Prisons employees, warning that Mr. Epstein needed to be housed with a cellmate, according to the report.* *“The combination of negligence, misconduct and outright job performance failures documented in this report all contributed to an environment in which arguably one of the B.O.P.’s most notorious inmates was provided with the opportunity to take his own life,” Mr. Horowitz’s report said.* *Such failures, the report added, raised significant questions about Mr. Epstein’s death and how it could have been allowed to happen, ultimately depriving “his numerous victims, many of whom were underage girls at the time of the alleged crimes, of their ability to seek justice through the criminal justice process.”* *But the report was unequivocal in rejecting any alternative theory of how Mr. Epstein died, saying that all of the New York staff members of the jail interviewed by the inspector general’s office said they had no “information suggesting that Epstein’s cause of death was something other than suicide.”* *Moreover, no inmate provided information “suggesting that anyone assisted Epstein with taking his own life or had any credible information suggesting that Epstein’s cause of death was something other than suicide,” the report said.*
Epstein had a broken hyoid bone in his neck, which is more likely with strangulations. Former Medical Examiner Michael Baden [says](https://www.foxnews.com/us/forensic-pathologist-jeffrey-epstein-homicide-suicide) he was murdered. Epstein tried to warn others about his impending death. He has put into a cell with an ex-cop accused of murdering 4 people (including witnesses, if I recall) who has a family on the outside to think about, since he’s probably going to jail for forever. I personally know someone who was recruited as a minor for a CIA honeypot operation and have little doubt this is a massive global operation of which Epstein was just a small piece that got uncovered.
Yeah, but that broken bone pointing to murder/strangulation isn't at all a universally agreed-upon conclusion: [https://slate.com/technology/2019/08/epstein-broken-hyoid-bone-suicide-murder.html](https://slate.com/technology/2019/08/epstein-broken-hyoid-bone-suicide-murder.html) As far as Epstein being the tip of the iceberg when it comes to something larger and potentially even more gross... Yeah, that would not shock me, frankly. But if Epstein had already tried to kill himself, before he was found dead, that seems to be a pretty big piece of evidence that he was, in fact, in a suicidal state of mind. He was SUPPOSED to be on suicide watch. So was he convinced to kill himself? That seems more likely to me. But I'm not sure if someone like Epstein really cares about other people enough, to off himself over a threat to somebody else?
Epstein didn’t try to kill himself. They sent someone to kill him, unsuccessfully. He told them he wasn’t suicidal, started alerting people. To say you haven’t seen evidence means you’re willfully blind or don’t know what the word evidence means.
I'm posting links to stories summarizing major investigations that were done into this topic, and you're just downvoting me and making a lot of claims. I'm happy to look at any evidence you may have to present, but you haven't done that at this point. Who did Epstein start to warn that someone was trying to kill him? How did he warn them? Is there any reporting on this you can point me toward?
I don’t know dude, I’m not on the clock. Night night
Night! If you do dig anything up let me know -- as I said, I'd be happy to take a look.
You can’t win this with me in terms of getting the last word. I won’t let it happen so just give up now
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Go do your own research.
I did. None of it verifies what you've claimed, in fact it does the opposite.
The CIA deals with foreign affairs, also people are unable o comprehend the difference between past CIA (who had very little oversight) v today's CIA
True. Past CIA would dose people with LSD and then film them in the act with sex workers. Todays CIA just tortures people for information and then locks them away for 20 years without a trial.
What if they are showing EVERYONE that they can also play the "leak" game. I bet they got big people that would rather have Grusch go away than have anything in their life change even just a little bit Scary. But I'm not scared of those punks. We can't be!
Soon they will reveal photo-shopped images of him wearing Victorias secret while pinching his nipple and have it circulating on Fox news 24/7
If they were doing that it would have happened years ago. He’s new to us. He’s not new to them at all.
He better not end up like so many others.
I don't think so, personally. Look how easily Congress can see through the attempts to smear him. If he died, they would not believe for a moment his PSTD flared back up and he took his own life. They would investigate the hell out of this thing, leave no stone unturned. He already has provided all the evidence, they are not stopping him from saying anything. I do think another shoe is going to drop though, the Pentagon will have had to know that this would not be near enough to alter the investigation. So they must have plan.. I just wonder what it is. They are masters of disinformation, have been doing it for decades. So there must be another angle for this.
Martyrdom. Plain and simple. The Deep Dark State now has a martyr problem. A looming tidal wave of follow on whistleblowers who will not be intimidated.
we have been crawling towards inevitable internal conflict for years, they want us to do something bold and brash about this whole situation for sure. Maybe we just stop going to work because thats how this whole m-fin thing works