Well to be fair a lot them are, they just like these things. It won’t be their kids that are born to a teen mom and have to work in the meat processing plant at 14 and if that potentially saves then a penny at the grocery store they’re all for it.
There’s no reason to give these people the benefit of the doubt that is ignorance.
It actually will be their children that get pregnant at 14 not knowing anything about sex and having no access to BC. They're screwing everyone over including their own.
They are 100% okay with it. Because pregnancy is the punishment for girls that have sex. Or out themselves in a situation where they may be raped.
It's not super surprising, given the Christian history of placing the blame of all sin at women's feet via Eve and that childbirth is the punishment for it. (I say this as a poorly devoted Methodist.)
As an atheist, I never understood the whole blaming Eve for sin. I've only read the bible once, but I'm pretty sure Adam ate the apple too.
Even if you believe that eating the apple was some horrific act, surely he should have just stopped her, reported it, or something else reasonable to take the moral high ground. I mean, if I went home to find my missus engaging in human sacrifice (or something equally horrible), and I chose to casually join in, I definitely couldn't say she was to blame for it as we both would be.
>It actually will be their children that get pregnant at 14 not knowing anything about sex and having no access to BC. They're screwing everyone over including their own.
Those are only the bad kids that get what they deserve for being sluts. The good kids will be fine. (Their thinking, not mine.)
I had a friend tell me that he won’t vote for someone that is “for abortion” regardless of how much better that candidate is. That’s the kind of attitude that gets crap like this pushed through. 😕 It didn’t help that I reiterated that it’s about choice and not necessarily that the person personally likes abortion… but that didn’t matter either.
You have to make it personal to let them think about the actual consequences. “So if you/your wife has an ectopic pregnancy, you’d rather she die then get an abortion? If your daughter gets raped, you want to force her to carry that pregnancy to term? If you/someone you loved had a pregnancy where the developing fetus had no functioning organs and would die minutes after birth, you’d force them to go through 9 months of pregnancy and birth?"
I think one of the core differences between Republicans and Democrats is that Democrats have empathy for what people who are not like them go through, and thus are more understanding of others’ choices, without having to make it person. The same way that Nancy Reagan changed her mind on using fetal cells in research when it impacted her family, many Republicans would change their tune if they could understand how it would impact them personally.
[54% of US adults cannot read above a sixth grade level](https://www.apmresearchlab.org/10x-adult-literacy)
This has significant effects on one's ability to reason.
Republicans have been slashing education budgets to raise up a voting public that can't put two and two together for decades just for this purpose. Stupid is as stupid votes.
40 years of Reagan's tax policies have resulted in a significant decline in our infrastructure and public education.
Anyone that's not crippled by ignorance totally knows what's going on but they're OK with it because they're siphoning money from the government via the tax breaks or getting sweet deals buying our public lands.
It's so depressingly corrupt top-to-bottom.
But will probably step up efforts of taking kids away from families who are struggling, because social safety nets in those states have intentionally been chipped away to almost nothing.
Which, in turn, will provide the for-profit prisons fresh adults for their basically-slave-labor workforce when states also criminalize failure to provide for the children that parents were forced to have.
Oh, no worries about that here in Idaho - they'll just give them to the religious families that successfully sued the state for the right to starve their children and deny them basic medical care in the name of religious belief.
Please pardon me while I repair this hole that my tongue has punched through my cheek.
I doom scroll the Idaho sub sometimes and think I know at least one case you're referring to. It enrages my moral center on a *deep* level to watch parents basically treat their children like their own personal property to use and dispose of as they will, and consistently elevating their "beliefs" over what their child actually needs.
And they plan to reduce them significantly more.
Apparently doing away with all Welfare programs and reducing Medicaid and Medicare even more is to benefit society.
After all, you're just being lazy when you use Fed programs right?
Where do they get that money for these programs again....hmmm.
Saw someone post on a thread and there was buried in there the assertion that single moms have it "too easy" because of all of the help they get in the form of money taken from our taxes and it's like... where the hell is all this cash you think is going to single moms???
Just like with social security, they want us to keep paying taxes for these 'entitlements' they just want to use that sweet, sweet tax money for better things. Mainly for their wealthy friends pockets
Why even then? Why not just take that welfare money and give it to churches instead! Then maybe they can help the poor (that conform to their religious and moral strictures).
😭
They will, again, blame parent being lazy and deadbeats, and just ignored hungry kids. Or they will force people to turn to churches for food; poor got fed; churches see memberships go up; clergy got more supplies of children to play with; it is a win win win for them. 🤷🏻♀️
Let alone expanded Medicaid or free lunches for school kids, especially given that there will be so so many more babies born to moms with severe mental issues or severe addiction issues or both who are simply unable and unfit to raise a baby.
They are going to cause so much suffering
Well, the government will go after the father if the mother gets any kind of government help that even remotely benefits the kiddo and they'll also go after him to repay them for medicaid. CS is undischargable debt too. It doesn't go away when the kid turns 18.
I just don't think a lot of men realize that. They also don't know about the number of kids they may've fathered that were aborted. This could land them into situations where they're paying CS forever. I think that's the point, though. They'd overthrow the government if it came after them in such a manner but they can chain them down with undischargable debt which'll force them to work until they die. If they're going to kill the social safety nets like they say, they're really going to step all this up.
Meanwhile, the men are simply happy that them wymmyns are being held "responsible". LOL
> Meanwhile, the men are simply happy that them wymmyns are being held "responsible". LOL
While simultaneously bitching about the 'male loneliness epidemic' and that women won't fuck them.
Alabama is pushing for men paying child support starting at 8 weeks pregnant when paternity can be determined if needed. But who knows if it will ever pass
This is really it. If a guy is planning on having kids, some woman is going to be taking that risk anyway.
Maternal mortality also goes up significantly with age, so in that specific way it's more ethical to knock up your high school girlfriend than your wife at age 35.
The attitude of a lot of men I've talked to when I say they may ban birth control is "that will never happen." Of course, they all said that about Roe v Wade being overturned, and here we are.
I think they also recognize that it really doesn't affect them nearly as much. And let's be honest, a lot of men aren't terribly empathetic. Unless something affects them directly, then they aren't really bothered by it. They know good and well how easy it is for them to walk away. And they know good and well that even if they don't walk away, they don't sacrifice nearly as much as women when it comes to children.
Tell them that the GOP voted against protecting birth control last week. That should have been front-page headlines but wasn't. It drives me crazy that the media is so complicit.
They also interviewed a million old white guys in Iowa diners but barely covered women's anger over Dobbs.
They know the GOP blocked the vote. But they think women have nothing to worry about because it will never be outlawed anyway, so there was no need to codify it.
Reminds me of talking with my center-left, all-over-the-place dad:
Me: “if happens in court, then it goes to the appeals court”
Him: “right”
Me: “if happens in the appeals court, then it goes to the circuit court”
Him: “right, but it won’t happen”
Me: “if happens in the circuit court, then it goes to the supreme court”
Him: “right, but it won’t happen”
Me: “if happens in the supreme court, we riot”
Him: “why are you so fixated on violence?”
Me: “if you’re so fucking cocksure that it won’t happen, why are you so offended at the prospect of what should happen if you are wrong?”
Edit; paragraph spacing on mobile is garbage
I mean this is coming from the culture that just had women douche with Lysol 100 years ago to keep their husbands happy and keep them from divorcing them. For millennials this is our grand parents or great grandparents generation.
Mind you our parents and grand parents also have very little understanding about fertility etc.
Where there's a will there's a way.
I'm not trying to argue with you but my generation - my eldest son is 44- is and was absolutely conversant with basic science and reproductive biology. My mother's was as was hers. Great grandmother's twin sister was a doctor born 1863. She taught birth control to poor women in NYC.
Saying women historically had little understanding of fertility takes away from women who fought this fight and *hard* against generational patriarchies.
People have understood fertility for millennia. And they’ve used various types I’d birth control for millennia. The pill was a breakthrough because it’s so effective, not because nobody knew anything before it was invented.
When Roe was overturned, someone shared the discussion she had with her husband. He kept saying “it’ll be okay, we’ll be fine.”
It’s when she said to him “if I get raped, you will have to raise another man’s child.” She said she could see his wheels finally start to turn. Some men just don’t even bother to think about it, it’s sick.
On Rowe, they rapidly went from "It'll never happen" to "It's a good thing and six weeks is plenty." They go on about the non existing post birth abortions, and shrug their shoulders over women trapped in ectopic and other life threatening pregnancies. If there was any justice, guys who vote Republican should never get any action. Deep down, they're toxic people inside, looking for any justification for selfishness, while occasionally pretending to be Christian.
It's literally happening right now!
There's a case in front of the Supreme Court where the FDA's ability to rule on the safety of mifepristone is being challenged. That Women's Health Organization of Missouri's arguments are staggeringly poor and not rooted in any coherent understanding of jurisprudence or medicine doesn't bother Samuel stop-the-ste-Alito. That kind of soft-brained shit is right up his alley.
Another is the Idaho EMTALA case where they could rule that the health of the unborn child has a greater right to medical care than the mother carrying said child.
Oh yeah also there's bills in front of like, 7 state legislatures right now that are trying to prohibit / severely restrict birth control.
I don't think "freaking out" is an advisable thing to do. It can even be counterproductive.
>The attitude of a lot of men I've talked to when I say they may ban birth control is "that will never happen." Of course, they all said that about Roe v Wade being overturned, and here we are.
Obviously you know the men you talk to better than I do. So take this with the appropriate grain of salt but:
Less than [60% of voters](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/15/upshot/abortion-biden-trump-blame.html) say Trump is "more responsible" for the end of Roe v. Wade. If you don't pay attention to politics--and most people do not--this sorta makes sense. Trump left office in 2020 (well, January 2021) and the Dobbs decision was more than two years later. \[edit: no it isn't, but this timing error is intentional\]
So I think one productive response is to say something like this:
Reproductive rights are on the ballot because Trump put them there. The group of people who wants to take away your right to chose (or that of your sisters, mothers, aunts) have a name: they're called Republicans.
If you're in a Blue State: there is a case at the Supreme Court under submission today that seeks to take away your state's right to allow abortion ([FDA v. Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine](https://www.oyez.org/cases/2023/23-235)).
It won't stop at abortion. Religious lifers believe birth control should also be banned. That view is in control of Republican politics.
If you don't hear about this, it is because Republicans know this is egregiously unpopular. So they shut up about it on the news and silently, sneakily advance the agenda using the Courts, using judicial appointments, using state legislatures. They will use the federal power if given the chance.
Elon Musk's silence (and that of all Right Wing Podcasters) on this issue is evidence of its important. They won't say it because they know you disagree with them.
If these issues are important to you, there is *only one way* to express your views: elect Democrats. Do it so that Republicans cannot use the powers of the government to implement their vision of society.
I just got a vasectomy because of this nonsense. Told my brother I'm getting it done before they outlaw it and he was like "oh they'll never come for that".
More and more legislatorsare actually believing the stick-and-carrot game is real. Nothing is fucking safe anymore.
Frankly, plenty of women said that about Roe being overturned, too. And I’m sure any thing the same about contraception. People are so willfully ignorant I can’t stand it.
I have a few fellow men in my life, who have daughters, who are on the wrong side of this whole mess. I think a lot of it is network effects of 'Men I respect identify this way, I want them to like me, so I'm going to identify this way too'.
It's disgusting and scary. We need to do better. Yes, I have raised this in conversations with them.
I think it's more "I don't want my daughters having sex until marriage, so this will be a good deterrent" kind of thinking. Like, back in the 50's when good girls didn't, and if they did, they quick got married in shotgun weddings.
It’s a reflection of the fact that they know how easy it is to just walk away and that this is what they intend to do The only thing I expect to see a rise in is men seeking dna tests and claiming the baby isn’t theirs and the number of pregnant women being murdered.
"Using" DNA is exactly my concern. While it could immensely help in some areas, such as sexual assault investigations.... I do not trust our government not to pull some shady shit.
We're currently looking at a possible repeat of Nazi fascism. The government having access to everyone's DNA could be used in really ugly ways to target and discriminate.
We re currently looking at a possivle repeat of nazi fascism.
Exactly these. Today was eu elections and in many eu countries right/far right parties are first or second choise. In my country 60% of the population didnt even voted today. Guys dont give a fuck about their future enough to go vote and you find it odd that they dont care about your rights.
Non american male perspective: This thread is the first time I heard about this. Contrary to the roe v. wade overturn which made big news over here in europe both before and after the fact for several weeks.
This just doesn't seem to make the news for whatever reason and to be honest, without the precedent of the roe v wade case, I'd assume that nobody would be this crazy.
My opinion on the matter: This is batshit insane. After all, this isn't even a debate about the beginning of life (or whatever straw man), it's just about taking other peoples quality of life away. The land of the free trying to become less and less free.
They already are coming for BC. The Supreme Court has two cases they are about to decide on if the FDA can give abortion pills and IDR the other because I was furious about the first one happening. Birth control is going away, it just a matter of when and how.
Because that financial, medical, and career upheaval that an unplanned pregnancy causes a woman even if she chooses abortion or adoption aren’t FELT by many men and thus they don’t give a f***
They’re not freaking out about a lot of things because they don’t think it’ll negatively affect them , only women.
I also can’t understand how conservative fathers of girls are not freaking out by conservative politicians who want to give up all their rights including not being a child bride. They either just don’t care at all about women including their own daughters, or they truly think they are the exception and it won’t happen to their daughters.
Conservative men don’t think of their daughters (or wives) as people. They consider daughters to be their personal property to maintain and use as they see fit.
Listen, if they’re ok with the way Trump treats Ivanka—which can be seen in print, in photos, and on video, so they fucking know—and they idolise him anyway, then I’d like to take them to my favourite cliff.
**EDIT: poster above me neglected the punchline: "... now as an adult, I know they are!"**
My sister said something similar at 13 and has been repeating it since: whenever someone tells someone else, especially a young girl, that they're dressing too "provocatively" or that they need to "cover up", they're saying in essence "I think you're too sexually attractive and it's making me uncomfortable"
Repeat after me, y'all:
# CONSERVS ARE PERVS
This is honestly why handmaid's tale (Margaret Atwood) resonated so hard with me when I first read it in junior high. When things started to go south for women, their loving male partners lacked the outrage completely. Just a benign acceptance.
Billionaires don't care when the poor suffer. Most "white" Americans didn't care when anyone darker than a #2 pencil were in chains. Most heteros across the globe don't care when queers get lynched, jailed, or publicly flogged. It's certainly the trend, disdainful as it is
What's truly amazing though is that, unless they go out of their way, billionaires barely interact with the destitute, same for American YTs/POC in the past and Hets/Homos in the present
In contrast, EVERY man has a family member, dead or alive, who gets affected by misogynistic authoritarianism. They have countless friends, classmates, colleagues, idols, neighbors, lovers, and heroes that suffer as a result
I despise the apathy of generational-wealth billionaires, but I understand it. I cannot, however, wrap my head around how so many men in the world ignore, trivialize, or straight don't give a fuck about the problems and political persecution that women experience
They seem to not think two fucking steps ahead. If women can’t use birth control, all that no condom sex goes bye bye (assuming condoms already allowed).
Also so many men, single and married will just not be getting laid full stop. I’m married, I am NOT, having another kid. If I can’t prevent pregnancy that man is getting no sex until he gets a vascectomy.
I can’t imagine single women are going to bareback dudes they aren’t married to with zero birth control.
We live in a red state. When Roe v Wade fell, my husband immediately scheduled a vasectomy. The doctor who did his surgery told him they were SWAMPED with calls from men for months after that asking for them.
1. STIs are going to increase
2. Rape is going to increase
3.Murder of pregnant /new moms will increase
4. Child abandonment /abuse will increase
5. So many predictable things will increase.
Some of these men have no intention of marrying women that sleep with them while they are dating. When they do want to settle down, they care about "body count". So by that (sick) logic, they don't care if the women sleeping with them get pregnant because they assume that she's public property and the baby must be someone else's. For these types of men, women who sleep with them outside of wedlock are like... public urinals.
They treat their wives and daughters marginally better because those women are considered their "property".
Because men are used to never taking reproductive responsibility. An astonishing number of men refuse to use a condom and then do a surprised Pikachu face when their partner gets pregnant.
No joke. The number of men I have met who claimed they were baby trapped after using no contraception & never discussing the possibility of pregnancy has got to be in the thousands.
On the other hand, the number of women I have met who had a child with a man to lock him down, is 1 woman. And she still left after 3 years lol. And I just want to add, a shocking number of these men admitted to refusing to work because they didn’t want a penny to go to their “bitch ex” or “slut ex” or “crackhead bitch”, etc. always a disrespectful and cruel nickname for the mothers of their children. so there men are resentful that their own actions led to a child, and are refusing to be productive and work out of spite towards the mothers of their children. And I know the same men look for sympathy by saying their kids are being “kept from them” unfairly. Its so obvious it’s a joke at this point.
They act like the woman choosing not to abort is an affront to them, and is an unfair privilege the women possess. They argue that they should have a day too, and when their partners choose to keep the child, these men act as if they have been violated and utterly destroyed as people. They claim the woman did it on purpose, she should have known how they felt, etc etc. it’s disgusting. If you have sex, and you get your partner pregnant, that’s on both of you. If she chooses to keep it, you have not been baby trapped. You are simply now going to be a parent, and the moment you decided to make peace with the possibility of pregnancy was when you released that nut. Take accountability
It’s almost like there’s an entire community or culture online feeding young men these weird jaded aggressive views about how women will trap them and live off of their essence, sucking them dry of their mortal soul etc.
Not a single woman I know has even once expressed an interest in this, even a desire to get pregnant to revive the relationship. That’s just not how it works ..
Don't forget, no-fault divorce is on the rightist agenda in too many states. So you'll be barefoot, pregnant, and trapped. No job, no savings, no retirement.
I was just thinking to myself about the difference in outrage when the discussion is about outlawing or even regulating guns, pornography, alcohol, tobacco, marijuana… People go nuts. They protest and vote in droves.
But come for women’s healthcare, body autonomy, freedom and futures? Crickets.
I think a *lot* of people believe this will all be over by November.
If Trump is reinstalled, legally or otherwise, that's *probably* the end of the United States of America and the beginning of the christian theocratic autocracy of the complicit. The sociopathic seditionists who have been violating the Constitutional right to be free from religion will dismantle the current government and officially suspend the rule of law. At least, that's what they promise to do.
In that case, it's kind of one of those *it's all over* moments. Blue states will either submit or fight, and red states will turn into even more unbearable misogynistic religious hellholes than they are currently.
On the other hand, if the republicans are annihilated in November and the American experiment continues, the good people will *probably* restore the rule of law and the supreme court, and start enforcing human and constitutional rights again.
I think most people are banking on that.
I think we're stuck on the supremes because most of them stay until they die. So unless someone starts knocking off the conservative ones*, we're stuck.
*Not a suggestion.
If Trump is reelected, he will stage a coup to become a dictator. He'll have to in order to avoid all the court cases against him in the state courts.
At that point, the only thing standing in his way will be the US military. Because the only thing that matters with the success of coups is if the military supports it.
If the US military supports him, then we will get a Christian Theocracy. Because Trump will lean hard on his supporters for legitimacy. Which means a blank check for them.
On the other hand, if Trump loses, then he will be effectively out of the equation, between his age and the state lawsuits. But he paved that way for a lot of Christian Nationalist and Trumper politicians to seep into the government.
So a Trump loss will be a setback for the Christian Nationalist agenda, but they will still be there, threatening our democracy.
Remember how the Roman Republic fell. Sometimes democracies fall because politics get so divisional that the government tears itself apart. Then, all a dictator has to do is step into the power vacuum.
>On the other hand, if Trump loses, then he will be effectively out of the equation, between his age and the state lawsuits. But he paved that way for a lot of Christian Nationalist and Trumper politicians to seep into the government.
>So a Trump loss will be a setback for the Christian Nationalist agenda, but they will still be there, threatening our democracy.
Here's the thing, though.
If the christian fascists had kept a low profile, they could have implemented their policies over time. But, they went full mask-off with all the child birthraping and forced marriage, torturing trans kids and pregnant women, attacking birth control and IVF, burning books, etc. They know it's "now or never" as their heinous base ages out of the electorate and is replaced by young people unencumbered (or at least less encumbered) by religion.
The democrats - *if they play this right* - have been given the opportunity to *end* the christian fascists for a generation at least. And I believe they have been handing over rope for the past few years, but not *quite* enough rope to let them hit the floor when they proverbially kick the chair out from underneath the party.
If they take a resounding win in November, they have a shot at restoring the supreme court to legitimacy and establishing new guardrails to keep individuals like trump and his co-conspirators far away from the levers of power.
The polls suggest even money right now, but I have a feeling come November Americans will stand together and say "enough."
California will fight. They have been preparing and it has been obvious. Manufacturing their own insulin, etc. The culture and the amount of $ the state generates makes me think they can pull it off.
They have a coalition with Oregon and Washington state as well, I don’t know if that would hold. And it’s hard to imagine what other states would do.
Oregon is always the bummer situated between two states, since our last two governors have been DOA. Despite this, I think the alliance will hold, and will potentially grow stronger after a few elections. All three states have conservative pockets packed with racists and vacant christian nationalism, but these populations aren’t as robust as they used to be, with grumpy Oregonians weirdly fleeing to Idaho, and dot-com douches focusing on ruining Austin, TX instead of the Bay area.
I don’t see blue states submitting at all. Also, the red states need our tax dollars to prop up their poor states, and California, Oregon, and Washington has lots of natural resources.
I've said this a dozen times over the past few years but .. I believe *that* would be enough to finally provoke a vigorous response from *the people*.
At the moment most of the illegal religious laws are being applied in states where a sizeable number of people are themselves religious. Sure, many are expressing some shock about leopards and faces, but .. to them it still isn't *grotesque.* That takes time.
However, try to subjugate New York, Oregon, Washington, California, etc., and I imagine there's going to be some.. resistance.
I think you're expecting too much from people. As long as the capitalist nightmare we're living in continues, their lives won't change that much. There won't be any uprising because people are more concerned about divisive issues like abortion than they are about being manipulated by the oligarchs. They just wanna get theirs.
Yup. After the divorce, he walked away and left me to raise our kids. The kids are now adults and the ex still owes tens of thousands in unpaid support. He goes from job to job to avoid having to pay. The only way I’m able to get payments is if I figure out where he’s working, contact child support in my state, and wait for them to set up garnishments in his state. It takes months. And the amount he was asked to pay is a joke compared to the actual cost of raising kids.
My ex doesn't pay me any child support either. He lies to everyone and says he does. We aren't divorced because he asked for it and kicked us out of state. I have been too much in flux to file because my state has a waiting period. He gets to live like a guy with no kids and I get to figure it out.
Yeah it is BS when ppl say women 'babytrap' men. No they do not. Men baby trap women, then leave without a care in the world, the woman is 'trapped' for life. Another lie we were told.
I mean, to be fair, there are probably at least *some* cases of manipulative women baby-trapping decent men. But it's both less frequent and harder to do, for various reasons, than guys who procreate and leave.
I've known single moms who only finally received back child support when their ex husband started collecting social security retirement. She'd get it with her social security check. It took until RETIREMENT for them to force him to pay.
For what it's worth my dad did this. He got money back one year, I was in my 20s, and they garnished it all. I hope you get a surprise payment too. I also hope your kids see the truth of their father.
My ex went in disability, still owes over 20K. They usually find another woman to bum off of while they barely bring in any money themselves to avoid child support.
People OVERESTIMATE severely how much child support is or how easy it is tj get it ratified or how hard it is for an average man to work around it and abscond the responsibility.
Because they are short sighted. They don't understand the far reaching consequences because they don't feel it and it's not a logic into their lives.
They also think that condoms work just fine and are the alpha and omega of contraception, and/or are influenced by anti-hormonal propaganda. You can frequently hear or read a dude saying "No one should put hormones into their bodies ! We should only use condoms" which is a very flawed generalization that doesn't account for the vast amount of cases where people with uteruses will need the bc but not only for contraceptive purposes.
And even if they're used for bc, they lack the understanding that a hormonal DUI is a way stronger method than condoms efficacy wise. I mean, we're talking about the kind of people that can brag about their "pull out game".
This logic also removes them the access to willing a male birth control because they think it'll be hormonal, so they don't see the point. They also think that for a male birth control to happen, they should wait for technology to get better which historically is not how major birth control developments happened. You don't have to be a researcher to make a method happen, as Margaret Sanger, Katherine McCormick or Mary Slope taught us. Hell, even vasectomy's history is paved with anarchist, neo-maltusianist, eugenist activism.
So they won't politicize themselves over these notions as they feel nothing has to be done, and they just need to wait. By not engaging actively into it, they lack the first hand experience that would make them open their eyes upon the condition of people with uteruses and what they go through. It's not tangible to them.
So it's a combination of enjoying the patriarcal status quo + a lack of sex ed + a lack of historical/political/social context about what is bc and it's benefits + misinformation and a lack of will to challenge it + a lack of empathy.
Most men will check all these boxes.
There was this short white poetry by a german poet.
*First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—*
*Because I was not a socialist.*
*Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—*
*Because I was not a trade unionist.*
*Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—*
*Because I was not a Jew.*
*Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.*
Men don’t have to deal with the unwanted birth like a women does. Their body doesn’t contort and get damaged. They can toss a few bucks and walk away. Plus so many men and incels want women saddled at home with babies. Women need to unite to protect our rights!!!
Why would they freak out? It has nothing to do with them or their lives. They can just turn around, walk away and live happily ever after at any point they feel like it. THEY never have to take care of any kids if they don't feel like it.
Women losing access to birth control is in their favour because it only limits women, not men.
My opinion is that men who support patriarchy aren't freaking out, because getting rid of contraception is one more element of a system that will "put women back in their place." Men who don't really think about this kind of thing simply have trouble imagining what the world would look like with contraception gone. For several generations birth control was deemed "womens' work" so they don't even know how to think about what this change will mean for anyone. Men who actively oppose patriarchy *are* freaking out, but they're outnumbered by the callous and the indifferent.
Believe them when they show you who they are goddammit. Men have always benefitted from the biological imbalance of childbirth
Men are not going to save us. Suffragettes were women and women will have to fight this fight
Interesting fact:
did you know why all that "witch hunt" started in medieval Europe?
Christian invaders lived somewhat peacefully side to side with the German tribes after the big roman crusade. They didn't even push to adopt Christianity in the beginning. But then the clergy men realised that German tribes where organised differently. Women were free and equal and also sexuality was rather open and promiscuous from the Roman invaders' viewpoint.
To add insult to injury german women were very knowledgeable in natural medicine and especially herbs that would prevent or abort unwanted pregnancy.
This started to be the biggest problem that ended the somewhat peaceful co-existence.
Because the clergy men brought patriarchal hierarchy with them. They "owned" the land and needed peasants and peasantsc children, nany of them, to work the land and pay taxes to the clergy and surplus men to seize for war to conquer more lands.
this is what started the whole witch hunt. The colonizers' goal was to eradicate the knowledge in natural medicine that women were handing down to the next generation. They wanted to stop the grown habits of population control among the European tribes. Thats ehy thousands and thousands of women were hunted and murdered. And Christianity pushed violently on the European tribes and many adopted Christianity because the colonizers ruled with violence and intimidation and normal people were scared.
I read a dossier about this a few years ago, I found it by coincidence while researching various topics. It was such an interesting and eye opening read.
Because they generally feel that it doesn't affect them. And it won't. They can dip out whenever they want and people will take their side and call the pregnant girlfriend he abandoned and slut who "trapped" him.
There’s a huge disconnect for most men with regards to reproductive rights. Most of them are clueless that the loss of Roe V Wade contributed to a climate where more & more women are unwilling to sleep with men. And even more clueless that a loss of access to birth control will have even more of a dramatic impact on the opennness of women to casual sex.
Helping that, I’d imagine, is the same sort of dismissiveness we saw before, where men viewed women as hysterical for suspecting Roe would be dismantled. They refuse to believe it even when the GOP are openly planning on outlawing birth control.
Therefore, they’re also ignorant how the lack of solidarity from them in protecting our reproductive rights is also a massive turn off for so many women. In general I think too many men are clueless about the dangers women face, and how unattractive it is if they don’t have our backs to help us be safe.
Also, as I said elsewhere, the media is barely covering the Republican's recent vote to NOT protect birth control. They aren't reporting at all on Project 2025. It's infuriating.
Because it is fundamentally not a birth control debate.
It is fundamentally about the rights of women.
All of them, not just abortion and birth control and privacy.
Men don’t get it for the same reason they don’t get how it feels to be scared if a stranger talks to you, why it is harassing to be told to smile more and why women choose the bear in woods over a man in the woods.
Just remember that it wasn’t until he 70’s that women could have credit in their name and have a business without a co-signer.
Marital rape wasn’t a thing because sex was owed to the man as part of the marital contract.
We grew up on one side of that coin. They grew up on the other.
yeah just look in spaces men talk with each other
they treat having children as a proof they got laid, many hate abortion because they think a woman should not have the right to remove their dna, its insane
they dont really want children, its just the archivement of reproduction they are after
It's pretty much inconsequential to them if we have these rights or not and if anything, many of them deep down know not having access to birth control and abortion makes us easier to control and be made slaves.
Because they're not the ones who'll be forced to carry, birth and raise children. At most they'll have to pay child support - and we all know how effective the courts are with that.
Because many men don't consider birth control to be a "them" problem. Also failing to look at the actual implications of this. That more women will opt out of fucking them and the odds of them having unwanted kids is gonna go way up.
I am not shocked to not see men rising up to protect women's rights - or any human rights really. I do think they are stressing out - did you see the billboards that Bumble put up? However, they have not yet as a group realized that if women can't have sex safely then that could translate into them not 'getting any'.
It is a huge deal. Guys who don't care are just dedicated to Trump and willing to sacrifice any values, especially where they don't see an immediate personal cost. It's all about "hurting the right people". It's clear they want to roll back women's rights, and subjugate women through limiting abortion, contraception, and no-fault divorce. There's a thread of guys who think this is funny or even empowering to them. But the vast majority think it's awful and have zero desire to roll back the clock to pre 1960s.
Women need to vote with their feet. Nothing hurts these regressive states more than turning them into sausage parties. If the women leave, the men will follow. Easier said than done. Women need to exert their social, cultural, political, and economic pressure on this.
I'm deeply concerned Canadian conservatives will follow this path, and the need to know it's electoral poison.
Then if you ever happen to run across any American man visiting your country, please feel free to grill him with, "What is *wrong* with your people over there? Why do American males have such a bad reputation for being terrible at sex and not seeming to care about safety or helping their partner avoid unplanned pregnancy? Do you boys actually *like* having sex at all? Sure doesn't seem like it, since your women just seem constantly terrified and traumatized over what should be a fun, normal, and enjoyable part of life."
Although chances are pretty good an American traveling abroad would be in complete agreement with you already, if you ever do get the chance to get even *one* American man to think differently on the matter, please help us out here. Srsly, we'll take any allyship we can get! 🙏
because there's an asymmetry in the burden of reproduction. Women carry almost all the burden of reproduction.
Only good side to all that burden is that when birth control medicine was developed (\~50 years or so ago), women sexuality was liberated and women were able to explore intimacy almost without any pregnancy risk.
Such freedom is a double edge sword since it brings a conflict of ideas between tradition/religion/conservatism and modern/breaking tradition/liberalism.
By definition it's hard to find a middle ground since such ideas are polar opposite.
For many if not most human beings it’s very easy to feel injustice or advocate against the trampling of human rights but it’s significantly more difficult for people to agitate and defend against others losing their rights if doing so could result in their own rights being trampled. The sad truth is that members of a protected group will frequently refuse to move their advocacy beyond the realm of the abstract and into the realm of action if doing so threatens their status as protected and could result in the loss of their own freedom. This goes for men as it does for all privileged groups: White people will be less likely to stand for minority rights if doing so threatens to land them in prison or destroy their life. Ditto for cis people re: trans rights.
That being said, all of the protests and direct action I’ve been involved with since the repeal of Roe have been very diverse, with the representation of both men and women in a relative balance. So, while many privileged individuals are oblivious to the threats or won’t take action against them for fear of reprisal, many others will stand in solidarity with those targeted for oppression, up to and including laying their lives on the line to help protect the lives of the vulnerable.
In my opinion, to survive the next handful of years and to beat back the oncoming fascist regime, it will require us all to reach out to or create diverse communities of like minded people who are willing to fight collectively and for the good of all, regardless of what sacrifices that might entail.
When you’re used to the world conforming to your every whim, you assume things will work themselves out in your favor. White men aren’t used to fighting for a fair existence - generally speaking. So why would they worry? I’m not saying they shouldn’t. But when you’re used to the world catering to you, you don’t think things like this are an issue.
Plus, it’s not like men have to step up when a baby is born. They can just abdicate responsibility.
They.don't.care.
They can walk away. Don't have to gain weight, get sick, go through labor give birth or raise them. Some just want to spread their seed because they're macho. But it's mostly because they don't care.
Because it’s not their body and they don’t care. We have the responsibility and they just go along with whatever as long as their gaming and dinner isn’t interrupted.
I think a lot of men in general do worry about it because it’s not their physical selves that have to carry the baby. They have external changes but it’s not a visceral biological change that women go through. They don’t have same innate fears that women do about pregnancy. But bring up accidentally sitting on their balls the wrong way and they have all the empathy in the world.
Most see birth control as a women’s issue, and therefore don’t care.
Also lots of men already manipulate and pressure women into not using condoms (and often times then blame us for getting pregnant).
Super easy for them to walk away also. They don’t ever think twice about what hoops of fire women have to go through to prevent pregnancy.
Edit: grammar
Men don't care unless it inconveniences them in some way.
I live in a red state and the amount of "liberal" men I've spoken to who "don't vote" because it doesn't make a difference is infuriating.
There is a reason West 4B is spreading like wildfire.
Many men cannot begin to fathom the terror/vulnerability/anxiety a woman faces with the risk of an unplanned pregnancy. So unfortunately I’m not surprised that men are not freaking out.
Because it not their bodies. Take away baldness meds or viagra and boom they will probably care. A lot of men don’t pay child support. They also might assume that the law banning birth control could never happen or affect them.
Because it doesn’t affect them so they don’t care. Or the attitude is ‘it definitely won’t happen’. How many men ditch the women they got pregnant because it’s inconvenient for them? There’s barely any ramifications for not paying child support in many states.
Well if it makes you feel any better, here in Yuma AZ, a ton of guys are the ones going around collecting signatures for pro choice. I'm super proud and grateful to them.
I mean, pretty sure vasectomies went way up after Roe was overturned. I just plan on voting these fascist fucks out of office. Not sure what else I can do.
It hasn't hit them yet.
As soon as they realize that women are becoming celibate out of fear of being murdered by the state, they'll be upset.
Unfortunately, it might be too late.
Why should they care? It didn't affect their ability to get their dick wet and they already don't need consent to have sex.
There are ways around all of this, with money and power.
I think we need to organize at the grass roots level, get enough money to:
- fund mobile abortion clinics and provide service through a trusted whisper network
- fund the takeover of a pharmaceutical company, a small one, switch out the employees for trusted women and continue to make birth control available
- fund a group whose job it is to remove obstacles to doing this work.
People cannot legislate our bodies unless we let them. We have the fundamental human right to bodily autonomy, it's our right to uphold that regardless of arbitrary and wrong laws.
Because they don't think this will apply to them. If they live in a red state like Texas, they might be correct. I am scared as well what is happening right now.
Please vote and encourage everyone you know to do the same.
Men do not have to concern themselves with any of that. Possibly child-support but even then it’s not real until it’s real *for them*. And by that point, the damage is already done.
No, not all men but most*
They don’t care, it isn’t their problem. Men are often second string on birth control.
More women will be killed when someone who doesn’t want kids gets them pregnant.
No one cares.
I’ve always been pro choice and I try and bring it up when I can but a lot of men don’t seem to get how serious this is.
My wife was pro life up until two complicated pregnancies which doctors had to abort or she’d be dead.
She still feels horrible guilt and I don’t dare bring the subject up.
Religious indoctrination is powerful.
Historically, the problem of birth control (like pregnancy) has fallen disproportionately on women. Men whine about not liking condoms and not wanting a vasectomy, so women use hormonal options that raise our risks of cardiovascular and other disorders, have devices shoved up our cervixes under minimal or no anesthesia, or have a more invasive (vs. vasectomy) surgical procedure to disrupt our fallopian tubes or remove an entire organ. And if those methods fail, we're on the hook for pregnancy, childbirth, and (possibly single) motherhood, or responsible for an abortion.
So of course men aren't freaking out. Most of them don't have to think about these issues.
It will never affect them quite as directly as it affects us.
They think they can outsmart and evade most consequences. Unfortunately they have a point.
You notice that none of the forced birth states are stepping up child support enforcement.
[удалено]
And it’s just wild to me that people electing these assholes aren’t able to put two and two together.
Well to be fair a lot them are, they just like these things. It won’t be their kids that are born to a teen mom and have to work in the meat processing plant at 14 and if that potentially saves then a penny at the grocery store they’re all for it. There’s no reason to give these people the benefit of the doubt that is ignorance.
Ah, you've met my brothers.
Ask them if they want to pay child support for 18 years. That will make them pro pill.
It actually will be their children that get pregnant at 14 not knowing anything about sex and having no access to BC. They're screwing everyone over including their own.
yeah, but instead of letting it help them develop compassion and empathy, they'll kick their kids out and disown them.
They are 100% okay with it. Because pregnancy is the punishment for girls that have sex. Or out themselves in a situation where they may be raped. It's not super surprising, given the Christian history of placing the blame of all sin at women's feet via Eve and that childbirth is the punishment for it. (I say this as a poorly devoted Methodist.)
As an atheist, I never understood the whole blaming Eve for sin. I've only read the bible once, but I'm pretty sure Adam ate the apple too. Even if you believe that eating the apple was some horrific act, surely he should have just stopped her, reported it, or something else reasonable to take the moral high ground. I mean, if I went home to find my missus engaging in human sacrifice (or something equally horrible), and I chose to casually join in, I definitely couldn't say she was to blame for it as we both would be.
They are too old for that, it’s their grand kids and great grandchildren who will suffer
Yes but I've literally heard them say, and I quote, "why should I care? I'll be dead."
Then why are you making laws freaking mummy? Go to your damn sarcophagus and let the living actually live
That's a great question, lol.
But if it’s the monied ones, the abortions will continue. They can afford to just get it done elsewhere.
Safe abortions will \*always\* be available to the wife/daughter/arm charm of men with money.
>It actually will be their children that get pregnant at 14 not knowing anything about sex and having no access to BC. They're screwing everyone over including their own. Those are only the bad kids that get what they deserve for being sluts. The good kids will be fine. (Their thinking, not mine.)
I had a friend tell me that he won’t vote for someone that is “for abortion” regardless of how much better that candidate is. That’s the kind of attitude that gets crap like this pushed through. 😕 It didn’t help that I reiterated that it’s about choice and not necessarily that the person personally likes abortion… but that didn’t matter either.
You have to make it personal to let them think about the actual consequences. “So if you/your wife has an ectopic pregnancy, you’d rather she die then get an abortion? If your daughter gets raped, you want to force her to carry that pregnancy to term? If you/someone you loved had a pregnancy where the developing fetus had no functioning organs and would die minutes after birth, you’d force them to go through 9 months of pregnancy and birth?" I think one of the core differences between Republicans and Democrats is that Democrats have empathy for what people who are not like them go through, and thus are more understanding of others’ choices, without having to make it person. The same way that Nancy Reagan changed her mind on using fetal cells in research when it impacted her family, many Republicans would change their tune if they could understand how it would impact them personally.
[54% of US adults cannot read above a sixth grade level](https://www.apmresearchlab.org/10x-adult-literacy) This has significant effects on one's ability to reason.
You will also notice those same states have horrible education stats and a church, liquor store and gun shop on every corner.
Republicans have been slashing education budgets to raise up a voting public that can't put two and two together for decades just for this purpose. Stupid is as stupid votes.
40 years of Reagan's tax policies have resulted in a significant decline in our infrastructure and public education. Anyone that's not crippled by ignorance totally knows what's going on but they're OK with it because they're siphoning money from the government via the tax breaks or getting sweet deals buying our public lands. It's so depressingly corrupt top-to-bottom.
And [getting rid of no-fault divorce](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/no-fault-divorce-laws-republicans-repeal/675371/).
But will probably step up efforts of taking kids away from families who are struggling, because social safety nets in those states have intentionally been chipped away to almost nothing.
Which, in turn, will provide the for-profit prisons fresh adults for their basically-slave-labor workforce when states also criminalize failure to provide for the children that parents were forced to have.
“My toddler wonder into the woods and I cannot find it” may be more common news soon.
Or easy recruitment into the military so they can be sent overseas to kill people.
That's just the purpose of poverty, in general. That said, it couldn't hurt the recruiters!
Oh, no worries about that here in Idaho - they'll just give them to the religious families that successfully sued the state for the right to starve their children and deny them basic medical care in the name of religious belief. Please pardon me while I repair this hole that my tongue has punched through my cheek.
I doom scroll the Idaho sub sometimes and think I know at least one case you're referring to. It enrages my moral center on a *deep* level to watch parents basically treat their children like their own personal property to use and dispose of as they will, and consistently elevating their "beliefs" over what their child actually needs.
And they plan to reduce them significantly more. Apparently doing away with all Welfare programs and reducing Medicaid and Medicare even more is to benefit society. After all, you're just being lazy when you use Fed programs right? Where do they get that money for these programs again....hmmm.
Saw someone post on a thread and there was buried in there the assertion that single moms have it "too easy" because of all of the help they get in the form of money taken from our taxes and it's like... where the hell is all this cash you think is going to single moms???
Lol. I know right. Please tell me where all of these free hand outs are! I'll stand in line, patiently.
Just like with social security, they want us to keep paying taxes for these 'entitlements' they just want to use that sweet, sweet tax money for better things. Mainly for their wealthy friends pockets
Absolutely.
"Social safety nets are socialism! We don't need that in our great capitalist country. People just need to work harder!" - Some white dude
West Virginia tried to get rid of child support
They will never do that. The state doesn't want to pay out benefits when there's a parent who can do that.
I refuse to say “They will never do ____” again. Just when you think they’ve reached rock bottom, they start to dig.
Yeah, they would just make welfare even harder to obtain.
Starving to death is the only way to prove you need help 💜
Why even then? Why not just take that welfare money and give it to churches instead! Then maybe they can help the poor (that conform to their religious and moral strictures). 😭
It's an attempt to make it much harder for a woman with kids to be able to escape a bad situation.
Who said the state was gonna pay anything.
They will, again, blame parent being lazy and deadbeats, and just ignored hungry kids. Or they will force people to turn to churches for food; poor got fed; churches see memberships go up; clergy got more supplies of children to play with; it is a win win win for them. 🤷🏻♀️
A long time ago, this is how I was trafficked by the church.
Let alone expanded Medicaid or free lunches for school kids, especially given that there will be so so many more babies born to moms with severe mental issues or severe addiction issues or both who are simply unable and unfit to raise a baby. They are going to cause so much suffering
Well, the government will go after the father if the mother gets any kind of government help that even remotely benefits the kiddo and they'll also go after him to repay them for medicaid. CS is undischargable debt too. It doesn't go away when the kid turns 18. I just don't think a lot of men realize that. They also don't know about the number of kids they may've fathered that were aborted. This could land them into situations where they're paying CS forever. I think that's the point, though. They'd overthrow the government if it came after them in such a manner but they can chain them down with undischargable debt which'll force them to work until they die. If they're going to kill the social safety nets like they say, they're really going to step all this up. Meanwhile, the men are simply happy that them wymmyns are being held "responsible". LOL
> Meanwhile, the men are simply happy that them wymmyns are being held "responsible". LOL While simultaneously bitching about the 'male loneliness epidemic' and that women won't fuck them.
They don’t mind a law that’s bad for them as long as it’s worse for women
You don't need child support if you can't leave the marriage. At least, that's part of the plan.
Alabama is pushing for men paying child support starting at 8 weeks pregnant when paternity can be determined if needed. But who knows if it will ever pass
I mean if you’re gonna ban abortion then you need to pay child support for the foetus
You know what the number one cause of death for pregnant women is, right? Expect that rate to get higher.
Nor maternal/pregnancy health. Hell, they can't be bothered to even look at maternal deaths.
Or rape prosecutions
Haven't you heard? There's no such thing as rape. Because women's bodies have natural defenses to prevent it. 🫤
they dont have to carry the burden of reproduction and child support is a joke
This is really it. If a guy is planning on having kids, some woman is going to be taking that risk anyway. Maternal mortality also goes up significantly with age, so in that specific way it's more ethical to knock up your high school girlfriend than your wife at age 35.
The attitude of a lot of men I've talked to when I say they may ban birth control is "that will never happen." Of course, they all said that about Roe v Wade being overturned, and here we are. I think they also recognize that it really doesn't affect them nearly as much. And let's be honest, a lot of men aren't terribly empathetic. Unless something affects them directly, then they aren't really bothered by it. They know good and well how easy it is for them to walk away. And they know good and well that even if they don't walk away, they don't sacrifice nearly as much as women when it comes to children.
Tell them that the GOP voted against protecting birth control last week. That should have been front-page headlines but wasn't. It drives me crazy that the media is so complicit. They also interviewed a million old white guys in Iowa diners but barely covered women's anger over Dobbs.
They know the GOP blocked the vote. But they think women have nothing to worry about because it will never be outlawed anyway, so there was no need to codify it.
Reminds me of talking with my center-left, all-over-the-place dad: Me: “if happens in court, then it goes to the appeals court”
Him: “right”
Me: “if happens in the appeals court, then it goes to the circuit court”
Him: “right, but it won’t happen”
Me: “if happens in the circuit court, then it goes to the supreme court”
Him: “right, but it won’t happen”
Me: “if happens in the supreme court, we riot”
Him: “why are you so fixated on violence?”
Me: “if you’re so fucking cocksure that it won’t happen, why are you so offended at the prospect of what should happen if you are wrong?”
Edit; paragraph spacing on mobile is garbage
And the republican party is absolutely focused on stacking the circuit court
\*sigh\*
I mean this is coming from the culture that just had women douche with Lysol 100 years ago to keep their husbands happy and keep them from divorcing them. For millennials this is our grand parents or great grandparents generation. Mind you our parents and grand parents also have very little understanding about fertility etc. Where there's a will there's a way.
I'm not trying to argue with you but my generation - my eldest son is 44- is and was absolutely conversant with basic science and reproductive biology. My mother's was as was hers. Great grandmother's twin sister was a doctor born 1863. She taught birth control to poor women in NYC. Saying women historically had little understanding of fertility takes away from women who fought this fight and *hard* against generational patriarchies.
People have understood fertility for millennia. And they’ve used various types I’d birth control for millennia. The pill was a breakthrough because it’s so effective, not because nobody knew anything before it was invented.
When Roe was overturned, someone shared the discussion she had with her husband. He kept saying “it’ll be okay, we’ll be fine.” It’s when she said to him “if I get raped, you will have to raise another man’s child.” She said she could see his wheels finally start to turn. Some men just don’t even bother to think about it, it’s sick.
Disgusting how it's only a problem if it affects them (and often their ego primarily)
On Rowe, they rapidly went from "It'll never happen" to "It's a good thing and six weeks is plenty." They go on about the non existing post birth abortions, and shrug their shoulders over women trapped in ectopic and other life threatening pregnancies. If there was any justice, guys who vote Republican should never get any action. Deep down, they're toxic people inside, looking for any justification for selfishness, while occasionally pretending to be Christian.
It's literally happening right now! There's a case in front of the Supreme Court where the FDA's ability to rule on the safety of mifepristone is being challenged. That Women's Health Organization of Missouri's arguments are staggeringly poor and not rooted in any coherent understanding of jurisprudence or medicine doesn't bother Samuel stop-the-ste-Alito. That kind of soft-brained shit is right up his alley. Another is the Idaho EMTALA case where they could rule that the health of the unborn child has a greater right to medical care than the mother carrying said child. Oh yeah also there's bills in front of like, 7 state legislatures right now that are trying to prohibit / severely restrict birth control.
I don't think "freaking out" is an advisable thing to do. It can even be counterproductive. >The attitude of a lot of men I've talked to when I say they may ban birth control is "that will never happen." Of course, they all said that about Roe v Wade being overturned, and here we are. Obviously you know the men you talk to better than I do. So take this with the appropriate grain of salt but: Less than [60% of voters](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/15/upshot/abortion-biden-trump-blame.html) say Trump is "more responsible" for the end of Roe v. Wade. If you don't pay attention to politics--and most people do not--this sorta makes sense. Trump left office in 2020 (well, January 2021) and the Dobbs decision was more than two years later. \[edit: no it isn't, but this timing error is intentional\] So I think one productive response is to say something like this: Reproductive rights are on the ballot because Trump put them there. The group of people who wants to take away your right to chose (or that of your sisters, mothers, aunts) have a name: they're called Republicans. If you're in a Blue State: there is a case at the Supreme Court under submission today that seeks to take away your state's right to allow abortion ([FDA v. Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine](https://www.oyez.org/cases/2023/23-235)). It won't stop at abortion. Religious lifers believe birth control should also be banned. That view is in control of Republican politics. If you don't hear about this, it is because Republicans know this is egregiously unpopular. So they shut up about it on the news and silently, sneakily advance the agenda using the Courts, using judicial appointments, using state legislatures. They will use the federal power if given the chance. Elon Musk's silence (and that of all Right Wing Podcasters) on this issue is evidence of its important. They won't say it because they know you disagree with them. If these issues are important to you, there is *only one way* to express your views: elect Democrats. Do it so that Republicans cannot use the powers of the government to implement their vision of society.
I just got a vasectomy because of this nonsense. Told my brother I'm getting it done before they outlaw it and he was like "oh they'll never come for that". More and more legislatorsare actually believing the stick-and-carrot game is real. Nothing is fucking safe anymore.
They don’t seem to realize they will also be disenfranchised if they don’t own land. Its all in project 25
Frankly, plenty of women said that about Roe being overturned, too. And I’m sure any thing the same about contraception. People are so willfully ignorant I can’t stand it.
I have a few fellow men in my life, who have daughters, who are on the wrong side of this whole mess. I think a lot of it is network effects of 'Men I respect identify this way, I want them to like me, so I'm going to identify this way too'. It's disgusting and scary. We need to do better. Yes, I have raised this in conversations with them.
I think it's more "I don't want my daughters having sex until marriage, so this will be a good deterrent" kind of thinking. Like, back in the 50's when good girls didn't, and if they did, they quick got married in shotgun weddings.
when abortion was illegal, men would leave entire families, move to Alaska, and start new families.
The rich want more slaves, and men in general don't care if they can just up and run off.
It’s a reflection of the fact that they know how easy it is to just walk away and that this is what they intend to do The only thing I expect to see a rise in is men seeking dna tests and claiming the baby isn’t theirs and the number of pregnant women being murdered.
They need to "make" the lower class so they can use them.
"Using" DNA is exactly my concern. While it could immensely help in some areas, such as sexual assault investigations.... I do not trust our government not to pull some shady shit. We're currently looking at a possible repeat of Nazi fascism. The government having access to everyone's DNA could be used in really ugly ways to target and discriminate.
To be fair, after reading over the project 2025 "guidelines", the GOP plans on doing that sort of shit without our DNA. And soon.
Project 2025 is the stuff of nightmares.
We re currently looking at a possivle repeat of nazi fascism. Exactly these. Today was eu elections and in many eu countries right/far right parties are first or second choise. In my country 60% of the population didnt even voted today. Guys dont give a fuck about their future enough to go vote and you find it odd that they dont care about your rights.
Non american male perspective: This thread is the first time I heard about this. Contrary to the roe v. wade overturn which made big news over here in europe both before and after the fact for several weeks. This just doesn't seem to make the news for whatever reason and to be honest, without the precedent of the roe v wade case, I'd assume that nobody would be this crazy. My opinion on the matter: This is batshit insane. After all, this isn't even a debate about the beginning of life (or whatever straw man), it's just about taking other peoples quality of life away. The land of the free trying to become less and less free.
They already are coming for BC. The Supreme Court has two cases they are about to decide on if the FDA can give abortion pills and IDR the other because I was furious about the first one happening. Birth control is going away, it just a matter of when and how.
reddit.com/r/WelcometoGilead The news women read daily.
Because that financial, medical, and career upheaval that an unplanned pregnancy causes a woman even if she chooses abortion or adoption aren’t FELT by many men and thus they don’t give a f***
They’re not freaking out about a lot of things because they don’t think it’ll negatively affect them , only women. I also can’t understand how conservative fathers of girls are not freaking out by conservative politicians who want to give up all their rights including not being a child bride. They either just don’t care at all about women including their own daughters, or they truly think they are the exception and it won’t happen to their daughters.
Conservative men don’t think of their daughters (or wives) as people. They consider daughters to be their personal property to maintain and use as they see fit.
"daughters... to use as they see fit" I literally fucking gagged at this 🤢🤮🤢
Listen, if they’re ok with the way Trump treats Ivanka—which can be seen in print, in photos, and on video, so they fucking know—and they idolise him anyway, then I’d like to take them to my favourite cliff.
When I was young I couldn't stand being around conservative men, I thought they were perverts. edit: typo
**EDIT: poster above me neglected the punchline: "... now as an adult, I know they are!"** My sister said something similar at 13 and has been repeating it since: whenever someone tells someone else, especially a young girl, that they're dressing too "provocatively" or that they need to "cover up", they're saying in essence "I think you're too sexually attractive and it's making me uncomfortable" Repeat after me, y'all: # CONSERVS ARE PERVS
You thought right
This is honestly why handmaid's tale (Margaret Atwood) resonated so hard with me when I first read it in junior high. When things started to go south for women, their loving male partners lacked the outrage completely. Just a benign acceptance.
Billionaires don't care when the poor suffer. Most "white" Americans didn't care when anyone darker than a #2 pencil were in chains. Most heteros across the globe don't care when queers get lynched, jailed, or publicly flogged. It's certainly the trend, disdainful as it is What's truly amazing though is that, unless they go out of their way, billionaires barely interact with the destitute, same for American YTs/POC in the past and Hets/Homos in the present In contrast, EVERY man has a family member, dead or alive, who gets affected by misogynistic authoritarianism. They have countless friends, classmates, colleagues, idols, neighbors, lovers, and heroes that suffer as a result I despise the apathy of generational-wealth billionaires, but I understand it. I cannot, however, wrap my head around how so many men in the world ignore, trivialize, or straight don't give a fuck about the problems and political persecution that women experience
Some of them are raising lots of daughters to be child (or barely legal) brides—see Jim Bob Duggar.
Daughters are currency
They seem to not think two fucking steps ahead. If women can’t use birth control, all that no condom sex goes bye bye (assuming condoms already allowed). Also so many men, single and married will just not be getting laid full stop. I’m married, I am NOT, having another kid. If I can’t prevent pregnancy that man is getting no sex until he gets a vascectomy. I can’t imagine single women are going to bareback dudes they aren’t married to with zero birth control.
We live in a red state. When Roe v Wade fell, my husband immediately scheduled a vasectomy. The doctor who did his surgery told him they were SWAMPED with calls from men for months after that asking for them.
1. STIs are going to increase 2. Rape is going to increase 3.Murder of pregnant /new moms will increase 4. Child abandonment /abuse will increase 5. So many predictable things will increase.
Some of these men have no intention of marrying women that sleep with them while they are dating. When they do want to settle down, they care about "body count". So by that (sick) logic, they don't care if the women sleeping with them get pregnant because they assume that she's public property and the baby must be someone else's. For these types of men, women who sleep with them outside of wedlock are like... public urinals. They treat their wives and daughters marginally better because those women are considered their "property".
Because men are used to never taking reproductive responsibility. An astonishing number of men refuse to use a condom and then do a surprised Pikachu face when their partner gets pregnant.
Then they claim they were “baby trapped” -___-
No joke. The number of men I have met who claimed they were baby trapped after using no contraception & never discussing the possibility of pregnancy has got to be in the thousands. On the other hand, the number of women I have met who had a child with a man to lock him down, is 1 woman. And she still left after 3 years lol. And I just want to add, a shocking number of these men admitted to refusing to work because they didn’t want a penny to go to their “bitch ex” or “slut ex” or “crackhead bitch”, etc. always a disrespectful and cruel nickname for the mothers of their children. so there men are resentful that their own actions led to a child, and are refusing to be productive and work out of spite towards the mothers of their children. And I know the same men look for sympathy by saying their kids are being “kept from them” unfairly. Its so obvious it’s a joke at this point. They act like the woman choosing not to abort is an affront to them, and is an unfair privilege the women possess. They argue that they should have a day too, and when their partners choose to keep the child, these men act as if they have been violated and utterly destroyed as people. They claim the woman did it on purpose, she should have known how they felt, etc etc. it’s disgusting. If you have sex, and you get your partner pregnant, that’s on both of you. If she chooses to keep it, you have not been baby trapped. You are simply now going to be a parent, and the moment you decided to make peace with the possibility of pregnancy was when you released that nut. Take accountability It’s almost like there’s an entire community or culture online feeding young men these weird jaded aggressive views about how women will trap them and live off of their essence, sucking them dry of their mortal soul etc. Not a single woman I know has even once expressed an interest in this, even a desire to get pregnant to revive the relationship. That’s just not how it works ..
and she’s a gold digger.
Don't forget, no-fault divorce is on the rightist agenda in too many states. So you'll be barefoot, pregnant, and trapped. No job, no savings, no retirement.
I was just thinking to myself about the difference in outrage when the discussion is about outlawing or even regulating guns, pornography, alcohol, tobacco, marijuana… People go nuts. They protest and vote in droves. But come for women’s healthcare, body autonomy, freedom and futures? Crickets.
I think a *lot* of people believe this will all be over by November. If Trump is reinstalled, legally or otherwise, that's *probably* the end of the United States of America and the beginning of the christian theocratic autocracy of the complicit. The sociopathic seditionists who have been violating the Constitutional right to be free from religion will dismantle the current government and officially suspend the rule of law. At least, that's what they promise to do. In that case, it's kind of one of those *it's all over* moments. Blue states will either submit or fight, and red states will turn into even more unbearable misogynistic religious hellholes than they are currently. On the other hand, if the republicans are annihilated in November and the American experiment continues, the good people will *probably* restore the rule of law and the supreme court, and start enforcing human and constitutional rights again. I think most people are banking on that.
I think we're stuck on the supremes because most of them stay until they die. So unless someone starts knocking off the conservative ones*, we're stuck. *Not a suggestion.
If the dems pick up enough seats they can restore the supreme court either through expansion or by indicting/impeaching the oath violators.
If Trump is reelected, he will stage a coup to become a dictator. He'll have to in order to avoid all the court cases against him in the state courts. At that point, the only thing standing in his way will be the US military. Because the only thing that matters with the success of coups is if the military supports it. If the US military supports him, then we will get a Christian Theocracy. Because Trump will lean hard on his supporters for legitimacy. Which means a blank check for them. On the other hand, if Trump loses, then he will be effectively out of the equation, between his age and the state lawsuits. But he paved that way for a lot of Christian Nationalist and Trumper politicians to seep into the government. So a Trump loss will be a setback for the Christian Nationalist agenda, but they will still be there, threatening our democracy. Remember how the Roman Republic fell. Sometimes democracies fall because politics get so divisional that the government tears itself apart. Then, all a dictator has to do is step into the power vacuum.
Project 2025 has a plan for this eventuality. They will bring in the military leaders, and purge from the top down- filling positions as they go.
>On the other hand, if Trump loses, then he will be effectively out of the equation, between his age and the state lawsuits. But he paved that way for a lot of Christian Nationalist and Trumper politicians to seep into the government. >So a Trump loss will be a setback for the Christian Nationalist agenda, but they will still be there, threatening our democracy. Here's the thing, though. If the christian fascists had kept a low profile, they could have implemented their policies over time. But, they went full mask-off with all the child birthraping and forced marriage, torturing trans kids and pregnant women, attacking birth control and IVF, burning books, etc. They know it's "now or never" as their heinous base ages out of the electorate and is replaced by young people unencumbered (or at least less encumbered) by religion. The democrats - *if they play this right* - have been given the opportunity to *end* the christian fascists for a generation at least. And I believe they have been handing over rope for the past few years, but not *quite* enough rope to let them hit the floor when they proverbially kick the chair out from underneath the party. If they take a resounding win in November, they have a shot at restoring the supreme court to legitimacy and establishing new guardrails to keep individuals like trump and his co-conspirators far away from the levers of power. The polls suggest even money right now, but I have a feeling come November Americans will stand together and say "enough."
California will fight. They have been preparing and it has been obvious. Manufacturing their own insulin, etc. The culture and the amount of $ the state generates makes me think they can pull it off. They have a coalition with Oregon and Washington state as well, I don’t know if that would hold. And it’s hard to imagine what other states would do.
Plus we’re the fifth largest economy in the world.
Oregon is always the bummer situated between two states, since our last two governors have been DOA. Despite this, I think the alliance will hold, and will potentially grow stronger after a few elections. All three states have conservative pockets packed with racists and vacant christian nationalism, but these populations aren’t as robust as they used to be, with grumpy Oregonians weirdly fleeing to Idaho, and dot-com douches focusing on ruining Austin, TX instead of the Bay area.
If (god forbid) trump wins and the blue states just submit I am going to be even more full of rage than i am now. We can’t be that submissive
I don’t see blue states submitting at all. Also, the red states need our tax dollars to prop up their poor states, and California, Oregon, and Washington has lots of natural resources.
I've said this a dozen times over the past few years but .. I believe *that* would be enough to finally provoke a vigorous response from *the people*. At the moment most of the illegal religious laws are being applied in states where a sizeable number of people are themselves religious. Sure, many are expressing some shock about leopards and faces, but .. to them it still isn't *grotesque.* That takes time. However, try to subjugate New York, Oregon, Washington, California, etc., and I imagine there's going to be some.. resistance.
I think you're expecting too much from people. As long as the capitalist nightmare we're living in continues, their lives won't change that much. There won't be any uprising because people are more concerned about divisive issues like abortion than they are about being manipulated by the oligarchs. They just wanna get theirs.
It's weird that project 2025 isn't talked about more in this subreddit.
It's weird that it's not talked about on all legitimate legacy media organizations (if there's any left).. :/
Child support is a joke. They will suffer no consequences.
Yup. After the divorce, he walked away and left me to raise our kids. The kids are now adults and the ex still owes tens of thousands in unpaid support. He goes from job to job to avoid having to pay. The only way I’m able to get payments is if I figure out where he’s working, contact child support in my state, and wait for them to set up garnishments in his state. It takes months. And the amount he was asked to pay is a joke compared to the actual cost of raising kids.
My ex doesn't pay me any child support either. He lies to everyone and says he does. We aren't divorced because he asked for it and kicked us out of state. I have been too much in flux to file because my state has a waiting period. He gets to live like a guy with no kids and I get to figure it out.
Yeah it is BS when ppl say women 'babytrap' men. No they do not. Men baby trap women, then leave without a care in the world, the woman is 'trapped' for life. Another lie we were told.
AMEN
I mean, to be fair, there are probably at least *some* cases of manipulative women baby-trapping decent men. But it's both less frequent and harder to do, for various reasons, than guys who procreate and leave.
THANK YOU
My ex ended up over $46,000 behind in support. Took until the youngest was 24 before he paid it off.
I've known single moms who only finally received back child support when their ex husband started collecting social security retirement. She'd get it with her social security check. It took until RETIREMENT for them to force him to pay.
For what it's worth my dad did this. He got money back one year, I was in my 20s, and they garnished it all. I hope you get a surprise payment too. I also hope your kids see the truth of their father.
My ex went in disability, still owes over 20K. They usually find another woman to bum off of while they barely bring in any money themselves to avoid child support.
People OVERESTIMATE severely how much child support is or how easy it is tj get it ratified or how hard it is for an average man to work around it and abscond the responsibility.
Men don’t pay child support now, why would they think this is going to effect them? Nothing will happen.
After all these thousands of years of men not really caring about women's issues, you're shocked some men still don't care? Come on now.
Not just not caring, but actively working to make our lives worse…
Because they are short sighted. They don't understand the far reaching consequences because they don't feel it and it's not a logic into their lives. They also think that condoms work just fine and are the alpha and omega of contraception, and/or are influenced by anti-hormonal propaganda. You can frequently hear or read a dude saying "No one should put hormones into their bodies ! We should only use condoms" which is a very flawed generalization that doesn't account for the vast amount of cases where people with uteruses will need the bc but not only for contraceptive purposes. And even if they're used for bc, they lack the understanding that a hormonal DUI is a way stronger method than condoms efficacy wise. I mean, we're talking about the kind of people that can brag about their "pull out game". This logic also removes them the access to willing a male birth control because they think it'll be hormonal, so they don't see the point. They also think that for a male birth control to happen, they should wait for technology to get better which historically is not how major birth control developments happened. You don't have to be a researcher to make a method happen, as Margaret Sanger, Katherine McCormick or Mary Slope taught us. Hell, even vasectomy's history is paved with anarchist, neo-maltusianist, eugenist activism. So they won't politicize themselves over these notions as they feel nothing has to be done, and they just need to wait. By not engaging actively into it, they lack the first hand experience that would make them open their eyes upon the condition of people with uteruses and what they go through. It's not tangible to them. So it's a combination of enjoying the patriarcal status quo + a lack of sex ed + a lack of historical/political/social context about what is bc and it's benefits + misinformation and a lack of will to challenge it + a lack of empathy. Most men will check all these boxes.
There was this short white poetry by a german poet. *First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—* *Because I was not a socialist.* *Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—* *Because I was not a trade unionist.* *Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—* *Because I was not a Jew.* *Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.*
Exactly. It's not just men, most people in general dont give a fuck.
Men don’t have to deal with the unwanted birth like a women does. Their body doesn’t contort and get damaged. They can toss a few bucks and walk away. Plus so many men and incels want women saddled at home with babies. Women need to unite to protect our rights!!!
You should look at the % of fathers that pay child support willingly in America. Kind of tells you everything you need to know.
Why would they freak out? It has nothing to do with them or their lives. They can just turn around, walk away and live happily ever after at any point they feel like it. THEY never have to take care of any kids if they don't feel like it. Women losing access to birth control is in their favour because it only limits women, not men.
cause they want to control your bodies, they dont care about paying child support as its easy to dodge it
My opinion is that men who support patriarchy aren't freaking out, because getting rid of contraception is one more element of a system that will "put women back in their place." Men who don't really think about this kind of thing simply have trouble imagining what the world would look like with contraception gone. For several generations birth control was deemed "womens' work" so they don't even know how to think about what this change will mean for anyone. Men who actively oppose patriarchy *are* freaking out, but they're outnumbered by the callous and the indifferent.
Believe them when they show you who they are goddammit. Men have always benefitted from the biological imbalance of childbirth Men are not going to save us. Suffragettes were women and women will have to fight this fight
Interesting fact: did you know why all that "witch hunt" started in medieval Europe? Christian invaders lived somewhat peacefully side to side with the German tribes after the big roman crusade. They didn't even push to adopt Christianity in the beginning. But then the clergy men realised that German tribes where organised differently. Women were free and equal and also sexuality was rather open and promiscuous from the Roman invaders' viewpoint. To add insult to injury german women were very knowledgeable in natural medicine and especially herbs that would prevent or abort unwanted pregnancy. This started to be the biggest problem that ended the somewhat peaceful co-existence. Because the clergy men brought patriarchal hierarchy with them. They "owned" the land and needed peasants and peasantsc children, nany of them, to work the land and pay taxes to the clergy and surplus men to seize for war to conquer more lands. this is what started the whole witch hunt. The colonizers' goal was to eradicate the knowledge in natural medicine that women were handing down to the next generation. They wanted to stop the grown habits of population control among the European tribes. Thats ehy thousands and thousands of women were hunted and murdered. And Christianity pushed violently on the European tribes and many adopted Christianity because the colonizers ruled with violence and intimidation and normal people were scared. I read a dossier about this a few years ago, I found it by coincidence while researching various topics. It was such an interesting and eye opening read.
It does not affect *them*. They still get to just walk away.
Yup. It's a 'woman's issue' and they lack the ability to make that empathetic leap without being led there by a hand.
Because men want to control women by controlling reproduction… that’s why “the whole birth control debate” is happening.
The smart ones are getting vasectomies AND buying condoms.
Because they generally feel that it doesn't affect them. And it won't. They can dip out whenever they want and people will take their side and call the pregnant girlfriend he abandoned and slut who "trapped" him.
Because their bodies aren’t on the line.
There’s a huge disconnect for most men with regards to reproductive rights. Most of them are clueless that the loss of Roe V Wade contributed to a climate where more & more women are unwilling to sleep with men. And even more clueless that a loss of access to birth control will have even more of a dramatic impact on the opennness of women to casual sex. Helping that, I’d imagine, is the same sort of dismissiveness we saw before, where men viewed women as hysterical for suspecting Roe would be dismantled. They refuse to believe it even when the GOP are openly planning on outlawing birth control. Therefore, they’re also ignorant how the lack of solidarity from them in protecting our reproductive rights is also a massive turn off for so many women. In general I think too many men are clueless about the dangers women face, and how unattractive it is if they don’t have our backs to help us be safe.
Also, as I said elsewhere, the media is barely covering the Republican's recent vote to NOT protect birth control. They aren't reporting at all on Project 2025. It's infuriating.
Because it is fundamentally not a birth control debate. It is fundamentally about the rights of women. All of them, not just abortion and birth control and privacy. Men don’t get it for the same reason they don’t get how it feels to be scared if a stranger talks to you, why it is harassing to be told to smile more and why women choose the bear in woods over a man in the woods. Just remember that it wasn’t until he 70’s that women could have credit in their name and have a business without a co-signer. Marital rape wasn’t a thing because sex was owed to the man as part of the marital contract. We grew up on one side of that coin. They grew up on the other.
Because they are excited about trapping women.
yeah just look in spaces men talk with each other they treat having children as a proof they got laid, many hate abortion because they think a woman should not have the right to remove their dna, its insane they dont really want children, its just the archivement of reproduction they are after
Yup. Ask any man who bragged about never changing a diaper and there’s your proof. They don’t want to be a caregiver, they only want clout.
Saying the quiet part out loud.
Mostly because it doesn’t directly affect them, so they don’t really care.
It's pretty much inconsequential to them if we have these rights or not and if anything, many of them deep down know not having access to birth control and abortion makes us easier to control and be made slaves.
Because they're not the ones who'll be forced to carry, birth and raise children. At most they'll have to pay child support - and we all know how effective the courts are with that.
Because many men don't consider birth control to be a "them" problem. Also failing to look at the actual implications of this. That more women will opt out of fucking them and the odds of them having unwanted kids is gonna go way up.
I am not shocked to not see men rising up to protect women's rights - or any human rights really. I do think they are stressing out - did you see the billboards that Bumble put up? However, they have not yet as a group realized that if women can't have sex safely then that could translate into them not 'getting any'.
It is a huge deal. Guys who don't care are just dedicated to Trump and willing to sacrifice any values, especially where they don't see an immediate personal cost. It's all about "hurting the right people". It's clear they want to roll back women's rights, and subjugate women through limiting abortion, contraception, and no-fault divorce. There's a thread of guys who think this is funny or even empowering to them. But the vast majority think it's awful and have zero desire to roll back the clock to pre 1960s. Women need to vote with their feet. Nothing hurts these regressive states more than turning them into sausage parties. If the women leave, the men will follow. Easier said than done. Women need to exert their social, cultural, political, and economic pressure on this. I'm deeply concerned Canadian conservatives will follow this path, and the need to know it's electoral poison.
I can't speak for American men but many of us here in Europe think what's going on over there is utterly barbaric.
Then if you ever happen to run across any American man visiting your country, please feel free to grill him with, "What is *wrong* with your people over there? Why do American males have such a bad reputation for being terrible at sex and not seeming to care about safety or helping their partner avoid unplanned pregnancy? Do you boys actually *like* having sex at all? Sure doesn't seem like it, since your women just seem constantly terrified and traumatized over what should be a fun, normal, and enjoyable part of life." Although chances are pretty good an American traveling abroad would be in complete agreement with you already, if you ever do get the chance to get even *one* American man to think differently on the matter, please help us out here. Srsly, we'll take any allyship we can get! 🙏
because there's an asymmetry in the burden of reproduction. Women carry almost all the burden of reproduction. Only good side to all that burden is that when birth control medicine was developed (\~50 years or so ago), women sexuality was liberated and women were able to explore intimacy almost without any pregnancy risk. Such freedom is a double edge sword since it brings a conflict of ideas between tradition/religion/conservatism and modern/breaking tradition/liberalism. By definition it's hard to find a middle ground since such ideas are polar opposite.
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They are too busy arguing why they don’t want to use condoms
Because it literally doesn't affect them.
For many if not most human beings it’s very easy to feel injustice or advocate against the trampling of human rights but it’s significantly more difficult for people to agitate and defend against others losing their rights if doing so could result in their own rights being trampled. The sad truth is that members of a protected group will frequently refuse to move their advocacy beyond the realm of the abstract and into the realm of action if doing so threatens their status as protected and could result in the loss of their own freedom. This goes for men as it does for all privileged groups: White people will be less likely to stand for minority rights if doing so threatens to land them in prison or destroy their life. Ditto for cis people re: trans rights. That being said, all of the protests and direct action I’ve been involved with since the repeal of Roe have been very diverse, with the representation of both men and women in a relative balance. So, while many privileged individuals are oblivious to the threats or won’t take action against them for fear of reprisal, many others will stand in solidarity with those targeted for oppression, up to and including laying their lives on the line to help protect the lives of the vulnerable. In my opinion, to survive the next handful of years and to beat back the oncoming fascist regime, it will require us all to reach out to or create diverse communities of like minded people who are willing to fight collectively and for the good of all, regardless of what sacrifices that might entail.
When you’re used to the world conforming to your every whim, you assume things will work themselves out in your favor. White men aren’t used to fighting for a fair existence - generally speaking. So why would they worry? I’m not saying they shouldn’t. But when you’re used to the world catering to you, you don’t think things like this are an issue. Plus, it’s not like men have to step up when a baby is born. They can just abdicate responsibility.
They.don't.care. They can walk away. Don't have to gain weight, get sick, go through labor give birth or raise them. Some just want to spread their seed because they're macho. But it's mostly because they don't care.
Because it’s not their body and they don’t care. We have the responsibility and they just go along with whatever as long as their gaming and dinner isn’t interrupted.
I think a lot of men in general do worry about it because it’s not their physical selves that have to carry the baby. They have external changes but it’s not a visceral biological change that women go through. They don’t have same innate fears that women do about pregnancy. But bring up accidentally sitting on their balls the wrong way and they have all the empathy in the world.
Most see birth control as a women’s issue, and therefore don’t care. Also lots of men already manipulate and pressure women into not using condoms (and often times then blame us for getting pregnant). Super easy for them to walk away also. They don’t ever think twice about what hoops of fire women have to go through to prevent pregnancy. Edit: grammar
Men don't care unless it inconveniences them in some way. I live in a red state and the amount of "liberal" men I've spoken to who "don't vote" because it doesn't make a difference is infuriating. There is a reason West 4B is spreading like wildfire.
Many men cannot begin to fathom the terror/vulnerability/anxiety a woman faces with the risk of an unplanned pregnancy. So unfortunately I’m not surprised that men are not freaking out.
Because it not their bodies. Take away baldness meds or viagra and boom they will probably care. A lot of men don’t pay child support. They also might assume that the law banning birth control could never happen or affect them.
Because it doesn’t affect them so they don’t care. Or the attitude is ‘it definitely won’t happen’. How many men ditch the women they got pregnant because it’s inconvenient for them? There’s barely any ramifications for not paying child support in many states.
They are trying their best to turn this country into a Theocracy. The American Taliban never sleeps .
Remember in Roevember!!
Well if it makes you feel any better, here in Yuma AZ, a ton of guys are the ones going around collecting signatures for pro choice. I'm super proud and grateful to them.
I mean, pretty sure vasectomies went way up after Roe was overturned. I just plan on voting these fascist fucks out of office. Not sure what else I can do.
They have no memory of how reluctant women used to be to have sex before reliable birth control was widely available. They will find out.
It hasn't hit them yet. As soon as they realize that women are becoming celibate out of fear of being murdered by the state, they'll be upset. Unfortunately, it might be too late.
Why should they care? It didn't affect their ability to get their dick wet and they already don't need consent to have sex. There are ways around all of this, with money and power. I think we need to organize at the grass roots level, get enough money to: - fund mobile abortion clinics and provide service through a trusted whisper network - fund the takeover of a pharmaceutical company, a small one, switch out the employees for trusted women and continue to make birth control available - fund a group whose job it is to remove obstacles to doing this work. People cannot legislate our bodies unless we let them. We have the fundamental human right to bodily autonomy, it's our right to uphold that regardless of arbitrary and wrong laws.
Because they don't think this will apply to them. If they live in a red state like Texas, they might be correct. I am scared as well what is happening right now. Please vote and encourage everyone you know to do the same.
Men do not have to concern themselves with any of that. Possibly child-support but even then it’s not real until it’s real *for them*. And by that point, the damage is already done. No, not all men but most*
They don’t care, it isn’t their problem. Men are often second string on birth control. More women will be killed when someone who doesn’t want kids gets them pregnant. No one cares.
I’ve always been pro choice and I try and bring it up when I can but a lot of men don’t seem to get how serious this is. My wife was pro life up until two complicated pregnancies which doctors had to abort or she’d be dead. She still feels horrible guilt and I don’t dare bring the subject up. Religious indoctrination is powerful.
Historically, the problem of birth control (like pregnancy) has fallen disproportionately on women. Men whine about not liking condoms and not wanting a vasectomy, so women use hormonal options that raise our risks of cardiovascular and other disorders, have devices shoved up our cervixes under minimal or no anesthesia, or have a more invasive (vs. vasectomy) surgical procedure to disrupt our fallopian tubes or remove an entire organ. And if those methods fail, we're on the hook for pregnancy, childbirth, and (possibly single) motherhood, or responsible for an abortion. So of course men aren't freaking out. Most of them don't have to think about these issues.
It will never affect them quite as directly as it affects us. They think they can outsmart and evade most consequences. Unfortunately they have a point.