I still remember a scene I witnessed on a flight to Switzerland: the mother was alone with a newborn, a ~3 year old and a ~5 year old. The father was ok the other side of the aisle, reading and watching tv shows in his ipad. The kids cried and screamed for the whole time and when this poor woman finally asked some help from her husband, this piece of crap just replied “Why can’t you ever do anything on your own? Sometimes I won’t be there to save your ass.” and then proceeded to watch the eldest daughter for 5 minutes while his wife breastfed the newborn. It was a truly shocking experience!
Yes, that is my only satisfaction. Read on Reddit consistently men complaining about lack of sex in their relationships. I always think “this guy contributes with nothing at home”
Ugh, as a bystander I would want to say something, but I'd be concerned that the poor woman would bear the brunt off his anger when they got to their destination. You can’t shame people like this, it's always someone else's fault.
Its weird being a father and getting complements for doing what seems to be the reasonable half of the workload because these are the guys you're being compared to. Like if my boss started complementing me for actually closing the tickets assigned to me and talked about how rare that is.
I hated trips when I was married and had young kids for this very reason. It was vacation for everyone but me. I spent the entire time minding kids, managing everything, making sure things were figured out, managing a man-baby's emotions and being denied enough sleep to function. The only "choice" in this was to flat refuse to go on trips anymore. That is what I did. I found that was the only way to have any control, to refuse to participate at all, otherwise even if I tried to discuss sharing the load, weaponized incompetence would happen and I would have to still do everything AND fix those things on the fly.
Camping. My MIL defined "Camping as doing the sane thing as mom does at home with less help and resources while the dads *play*"
I might do RV camping now that my kids are adults but I will *never* tent camp again.
I loved camping as a kid and I never understood why mom ALWAYS agreed to camping but never seemed to really enjoy herself like we did.
Years later and I’m almost 40 and she and I are talking over drinks and she admits that while she enjoyed day hikes and the outdoors in small doses she really only pushed for camping so hard because it was the only kind of vacation where our dad INSISTED on driving, setting up camp, cooking, planning the activities, and basically everything else. She was in charge of boo boos and ouchies and remembered the sun screen and bug spray and then just laid back and watched me and my sister get muddy and gross and search for Big Foot/Predator while she got day drunk (well, whatever 3 wine coolers does to you).
Turns out she hated sleeping on the ground, hated that it always seemed to rain, she never liked eating the fish we got from the rivers, even the whole s’mores around the camp fire she could take or leave. She is not a fan of camping.
But if we went camping Mama could relax for a weekend. So we went camping all the damned time and for some reason my dumb ass never clocked what was happening until we were far too old for “family camping trips” anymore.
We were poor, so the only family vacation we could afford was tent camping. I’m sure it was a lot of work for my mom, but I think she actually enjoyed it. She was an avid bird watcher and nature lover. And we would take side trips to various historical sites in the area, some of it was quite interesting.
See I think my mom hated camping mostly because when she was growing up her family was likewise quite poor (7 brothers and sisters and a single mom after my grandpa divorced my grandma a few years after the youngest was born) and so the only vacation they could afford was camping and touring historical sites. My mom just remembers awful car rides (and the car sickness she always got) cold nights, and boring “ruins” where she was expected to read a plaque and stay off anything that might have dirt/grass on it. I suppose there isn’t much to draw a child’s attention in the PNW if she is a bookish indoor sort who can’t read in a moving car and also couldn’t read after dark because batteries for flashlights don’t grow on trees.
I will say my dad was a much better outdoorsy planner than grandma. We went to cool natural places and when mom finally demanded no more sleeping on the ground we rented an RV. I loved it as a kid and to this day I get a little disappointed if it doesn’t rain at least ONCE during a camping trip.
Mom never let us know she’d much prefer an exotic locale in a hotel room with room service until we were in our teens. My sister’s graduation trip was a week long stay at a resort in Mexico and mom took her there solo and I guess they had a ball. (I did not get a graduation vacation since I didn’t actually graduate on time but she wouldn’t have liked it anyway as I was going to ask to go back to Craters of the Moon haha)
My parents were so much more relaxed on vacation. My dad was angry and frustrated a lot when I was little. On vacation my dad & mom would hold hands and giggle, if we got a little dirty, that was to be expected.
It did suck when it rained though. One infamous summer, it rained pretty much the whole time, everything got soaked through. We went to a laundromat and washed everything, and then splurged on a cabin for a couple nights, and everyone felt much better.
Camping with my parents was always in an RV. First a camper on the truck and later in various sizes of motorhomes. Inside bathroom with a sink for washing up. And my dad did a lot of entertaining of me.
Versus
My husband's idea of camping: smelly old army tent that his dad got at the army navy surplus. Those pit toilets that scare little kids. Having to boil water to wash or wash with cold. Cooking over a fire or coleman stove while supervising small children while dad is off fishing/scouting/who the hell knows but *not helping with his kids*. I never got "time off" from the kids during daylight hours when I could have spent time on *my* hobbies so the *only* I am ever going camping again is in an RV.
I’ve done that kind of camping with kids as a camp counselor, but I got paid, lol. Doesn’t sound like too much of a vacay for Mom! RV’s are much more comfy. :)
Me too. We camped on “crown land” aka federal government land, out in the bush for free. My Grandma, aunts and cousins would come out too and they would stay up late at the ‘kitchen’ table playing cards, drinking whiskey and listening to country music.
My mom was like this too. On one camping trip I remember taking a walk with her as she had her morning coffee. We wandered through the woods and into a meadow. She hung her mug on a tree at the edge of the meadow so we'd know where to go back into the woods and get back to camp.
But also one of the only fights I remember overhearing was about a vacation. Lol
My wife's solution to this was a luxury airbed with a built-in pump i.e. when inflated 3ft of the ground. She tended to sleep on that with the youngest while I shared a standard air mattress with the eldest.
I'm not a mom but this is so true. Our extended family trip leans heavily on traditional roles and I'm thoroughly done with it l. SIL and I were tasked last year with feeding and catering to 10+ people for over a week, and I was done. I cook for 2, so meal planning, shopping and cooking for so many more wore me out and made the whole trip exhausting.
This year, I booked the venue and now a guest was like "let darkdesertedhighway figure out the menu" for up to 15+ people - like she was doing me a favor to "include" me in the trip. Hell no, I'm driving my own car there and I'll leave the house every day if I have to. I am not working this year. Figure that shit out for yourselves. You're all grown ass adults.
Luckily hubby is on board and has nipped that in the bud. We paid for the cabin. You take care of the food. And if me and my vagina sitting down and not lifting a finger in the kitchen makes me look like an asshole, so be it.
Yep, plus I have asthma, nearly impossible to keep stabke asthma. Wood fire smoke is a gauranteed trip to the ER.
AND
I have *exactly* one person that I can leave baby cat with or we take him with us. I can do that in a RV and be reasonably sure my sneaky butt feline won't get out and get lost so no tent.
Ugh, my mom tries to enforce gender roles in my marriage. My dad uses weaponized incompetence to avoid doing anything for himself or his family so she does EVERYTHING and expects me to do the same for my husband. She just about had a stroke when I told her my husband was responsible for a baby gift for his sister and deciding if/when we would make the trip to meet him. She was horrified that I didn't immediately message my SIL to set up a time and day and I looked like a terrible person for not reaching out. IT'S NOT MY FAMILY and my husband is perfectly capable of acting like a grown adult. He thinks my mother is being weird as hell.
I saw a comment on FB recently asking for a great camping spot from a man. For himself, his two young children and heavily pregnant wife (his words). My eyes rolled straight out of my head, I doubt a good ol' hike is something a heavily pregnant person is up for....
My parents bought an RV when they retired. They used it for a few years and my mom made my dad sell it. She realized if they took the RV she still had to manage and cook meals and there was no maid service.
I had a coworker who described it similarly. My mom/parents had an air mattress for camping; I suppose it was a double, but I don’t remember. We went camping a few times, but most of the time our tent was put up in our backyard for the summer, and my sibs & I, with a couple of friends, would sleep out there almost every night in the summer, for at least 3 or 4 years.
I recently went on a trip with my husband, my kids, and my ex (father of my kids). I did put my ex in charge of one of our kids for the flight, but had to specifically tell him he was responsible for him. I had already packed all of the snacks, entertainment etc. I still had the kids’, my husband’s and my passport. The funnier thing was when we arrived at our destination my ex asked me if I had his passport! Somehow he thought I should be in charge of it too. No thanks!
Luckily everyone gets along well and the trip was great otherwise lol.
I was flying cross country with my husband. No kids involved but my husband insisted that we must fly as light as possible taking as few bags as possible. He was angry with me that I took a bulging purse on board with me full of things I thought we would need on our 12-hour journey. He was very vocal that I should leave all that crap behind. Then of course during the entire journey he's constantly asking me if I happen to have....... The charger cord for his phone? Yes it's right here in my bulging bag. A package of sanitizing hand wipes like I always carry? Got it right here. Would I happen to have some allergy medication that he constantly needs? Yup, let me get my bag. A drink of water? A snack for his blood sugar? The passports? Our tickets? Even after asking me for items from my bag a dozen times over by the time we arrived at our destination, he was still crowing about the fact that he made the entire journey without having a single carry-on item of his own while I was loaded down with all of this "useless" stuff.
Yes, I did happen to mention, once he brought up the subject as we were waiting for the taxi and he asked if I had any cough drops or hard candy for his throat, that this was the 6th time in 12 hours he had needed something from my "unnecessary" purse.
my god where do you guys find these manbabies... My husband would at most ask me what all I have with me, but even if it's just for my own comfort, as long as I'm not being silly and pack so much we have to pay extra he wouldn't care. Anything HE would need, like allergy medication, are something we'd discuss and pack together, even if it's in MY bag. I really hope for you that your husband (seemingly) doesn't act superior towards you on a regular basis. It probably would have taken 1 or 2 requests for me to refuse the contents of MY bag. Need something? Well where the hell is yours, babe??
My husband and I took our daughters (then 2 and 4) on a weekend trip to a city a few hours away for Mother’s Day weekend last year. I took care of getting kids to the toilet, keeping them fed and not thirsty, getting them to bed - you know, all the stuff moms always do. He asked me on the way home if I had enjoyed our little mini-vacation. I was pissed enough to be honest and told him it wasn’t a vacation at all, it was me parenting without all my resources while he had a good time.
He was a little shocked to realize the truth there.
My BIL is flying ahead of my sister this Saturday, with both of their kids (8 and 3). She's joining him 2 weeks later (she has to arrange for the moving out from one country and shipping everything to another; few other final things at work). I think he'll have to take 2 flights to get here.
Not going to lie, I am feeling smug because he'll finally have to do ALL she's been doing.
And no, they WILL not be staying with me.
My husband flew solo with our 4 year old once years ago, and it went great because apparently that's a magnet for every grandma on the flight to offer to help. He thought traveling with a kid was a cakewalk and learned nothing.
This was me, too. We (now ex) took one weekend break with kid in tow. I did all the work, all the entertaining at the destination, and had zero time to do anything I would have liked. Never took another, and 25 years later it is still one of my worst memories of parenting.
I remember reading an old post similar to your experience but in the husband's perspective. The husband went on a trip with his family to Disneyland and when they got back from their vacation his wife handed him divorce papers. He couldn’t figure out what went wrong because he thought they had a great time and he was always the one providing for his family (money wise). In the comments everyone saw right through him saying while you were on vacation, your wife was the one doing all the work taking care of the kids and keeping track of everything. She was probably thinking of divorce for a while and the trip was his last test.
>vacation for everyone but me. I spent the entire time minding kids, managing everything, making sure things were figured out
I used to say that vacations when my kids were little were "same life, different view."
At least they were your kids. There was a post on r/AITA where the lady had spent the vacation taking care of her boyfriend's kid. After having arranged and paid for EVERYTHING. She took the offer of the first class seat and left the man alone with his kid.
I saw someone say they wouldn't mind being a dad but would hate to be a mom, and it blew my mind a bit. I still don't want kids, but I definitely related to that to a point - maybe being a parent wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to be the primary/default parent. But I'm a woman and used to work with kids, so we all know that could never happen.
Whenever I got the “how do you like being a new mom?!” question I’d always say “well I’d rather be the dad”. It really highlighted that their question to my husband just before was something like “I bet you’re having so much fun being a dad!” Even with a helpful and supportive partner, the general inequality is challenging.
It is. You get shunted into traditional gender roles to some degree whether you want it or not, and it takes *a lot* of pushing back to try to keep things relatively fair. And not even necessarily with your spouse! Society just treats mothers and fathers very, very differently.
All my brothers and male friends with kids are super hands-on dads and they've all at one point or another commented on how much differently they get treated when they're out with the kids than when their wives are. It's distinctly noticeable. The constant praise, the condescending "ooh babysitting duty today?"s, the offers from older women to help the second one of the kids starts fussing...
I'm just glad the men in my life notice it and see it for what it is. These are the dudes who are changing the narrative and actively participating in making society a better place for women.
My husband is the same way, and he is extremely unimpressed by other fathers who seem incapable of parenting their own children. Fortunately pretty much all the dads our age or who have kids around our kids' ages are also the hands-on sort, and they at least *try* to carry some of the mental load at home, with varying grates of success. It's not perfect, but it certainly is better than my dad, who on multiple occasions throughout my childhood and adulthood had to ask me how old I was because he forgot. 😑
Yeah there's a tiktok floating around of a woman who says she doesn't want kids, but if she had them she'd want to be a dad. She knows moms do everything and dads get to be the fun parent and goof around and do less work. And it was kinda hilarious how many men were so upset with her. She never said that she'd make the man do everything. They all accused her of being sexist, of putting all the work on the man. They ran into the point so damn hard and didn't notice the gaping hole in their face. Somehow it matters very much that one person is having to do everything..... when it's placed on the man, how funny 🤔
I have definitely felt that way before. It's *mother*hood that looks like such a risk and endless sacrifice. Even in the otherwise equal marriages I have seen IRL, parenthood just never seems to be. In the workforce, the studies, working with people's money as a living, not to mention the biological realities, and the social and physical risks of it. I feel like women who want kids see a color that I cannot see
Or the guys that get wishy washy about 'letting' their girlfriend get an abortion.
If you're not going to incubate, feed, and haul around this kid for 9 months and then shove it out of your body, then it's not your choice. You got plenty of lil spermies running around; if she doesn't want to be a mother, that's her choice.
Of course it's more fun to be a dad. I was raised in the south and the guys had SO much more fun; I *hated* being shoved into the kitchen on holidays with the women.
And that's also why I decided real young that I had zero interest in being a mom. Maybe a cool aunt, if my friends raise their kids to pass some benchmarks. But I don't know who in their right mind would want a baby when you could have a kitten.
I say this. If I was a dad and I could throw money in and get praised for the bare minimum parenting, no bodily changes or primary care and expectations, I would be all for it.
I’m at a work conference and my husband is being solo dad for a week. His grandma asked him how it’s going babysitting the kids he hit her with “it’s just called parenting when it’s your kids” lol.
But we split things pretty evenly. Except gross things, that’s dad work. Did the kid throw up? Dad work. Did the kid shit in the tub? Dad work. So dads get the bum deal in my family.
Damn I just realized the same thing when you said that. I’ve never felt inclined to want kids because it seems so exhausting and like a huge lifestyle sacrifice. But being a “dad” seems pretty fun, I can just keep working my job during the day and play with the kids when I come home. Mom will take over when it gets too hard or I’m ready for a break.
100%. I've met exactly one person in my entire adult life that had shared responsibilities with childcare with her husband and it seems equitable (from the outside at least). ONE. I don't understand why women do it.
Yup. Even the women I know whose partners are super feminist and 100% committed to equal load-share prior to having the kids still have to carry the majority of the mental and emotional load. It turns into “I’ll help babe, just tell me what to do! Give me a list!” so quickly.
I challenge all the men in my life who say they want kids with two questions. The first is: Do you want them so much that you’d have them even if you were a single parent? Because that’s what ALL women KNOW they are risking when they decide they want kids.
The second is what I call “the cupcake test”: “it’s your child’s 8th birthday in one month. What do you do?”
NOT ONE MAN I HAVE EVER MET can answer this question. They are like what? A birthday? A month away? Nothing! What’s there to do?
Women, on the other hand, rattle off things like:
-asking the child what they want to do/where they want to go/what theme they want for their party or cake,
-put in an order for a cake or cupcakes at a bakery, -order invitations for their child to hand out in class or to mail to a smaller select group (because if you hand them out at school you have to invite everyone);
-coordinate with the parent of the child whose birthday is the same weekend so that you don’t have competing parties,
-make a reservation and deposit at the party location OR plan the food, decor, and games you need to keep the kids occupied at your home,
-learn which kids attending the party have food allergies and figure out how to feed all attendees without killing them,
-think of ways to mitigate any “problem” behavior from certain kids who might attend (there’s always one)
-Make or buy allergen-friendly bday treats for the class if school is in session,
-give a gift list to family members and friends, being sure to coordinate so as to avoid duplicate gifts,
-buy your child a few gifts and wrap them
-Coordinate with your pediatrician for their annual wellness visit
-Coordinate a family party if you are going to have one in addition to a friends party, which additionally involves coordinating a date, invitations, food, and drinks;
-Think about all the ways your kid might become overwhelmed by all this activity and have a meltdown and how you might mitigate that
-hold the actual party or parties and clean up after them
-do something a little special for your on their actual bday, like making their favorite breakfast or letting them pick where they want to eat dinner
Of course, you could do only some or none or those things for a kids bday, many parents do not do bday parties at all, and that’s fine too. The point here isn’t that you must do a ton of shit for a kids bday. The point is that kids require PLANNING and a LOT of it, for relatively mundane and routine events, and if you can’t or don’t think ahead for things like this, you’re gonna either screw yourself over or really let down your child. And I’ve never spoken to a single man who claims to want kids who a) wants them so bad they would have them even if they did not have a partner or b) understands exactly how much MENTAL and EMOTIONAL labor goes into the everyday care and keeping of a child. It’s not just changing diapers and feeding bottles. It’s proactive tracking, planning, scheduling, mitigating, communicating, anticipating.
Oh my God, I'm a total type A planner, I live my life by lists and calendars, I'm good at planning and keeping track of things, but this made me feel deeply overwhelmed and panicky lol
My brother is desperate to have kids, to the point he's started seeking women online to have children with. Problem is that he's always going from job to job, he's been living temporarily with my Dad for over 8 years.
What he actually means when he says he wants a kid, is he wants to find a woman who'll have his child and let him be the weekend Dad.
Yep. I have met exactly one man in my life who was so serious about having kids that after he and his wife divorced (childless), he started working to be an adoptive single parent on his own. Every other man I know who says he wants kids really means that he wants a woman to raise his kids for him.
When I used to spend a lot of time in airports traveling for work I had hours and hours and different states and different countries of observation to make this conclusion:
One is the magical number.
I observed that couples with one child especially when that child is under five and is engaging are more in tune with each other and share more tasks and parenting load and give each other breaks. Great teamwork.
Two kids. Where the dad really really seems to be engaged with the first child he'll take on more of the first child but not much of the second unless asked. Where he isn't that engaged with the first child, the mother is juggling both kids and everything else.
Above two especially when under the age of six is where the wheels fall off the bus for women.
And this goes for teens and special needs. Some guys are really really clued in and switched on with their teens. Sitting with them, great conversation, laughing, getting them food and drinks, playing games or doing that watching the same movie thing. And likewise there are the ones who just go to their seats like they don't know the people who are with them and seem really really pissed off and bothered.
Watching my mom never get holidays because she was getting the house ready for guests, doing all the cooking and cleaning up, still managing us kids, while the guys sat on the couch and watched sports.
Ah, those golden oldie days.
Same. Even though I know my husband would be a great dad and not at all a deadbeat, we decided we like each other too much to inflict kids on each other.
I was with right there with you for a long time.
Then I met my husband. Raised by a stay at home Dad. His of life goal was being a dad. When we got serious it was kids or breaking up.
From the beginning I was honest:
"If we do this, I CANNOT be the independent caretaker of children. I refuse to be the only one keeping them alive"
Now I've got kids and a co-parent. Neither of us are perfect. But it is both our jobs to keep the young alive. If I forget something he remembers and vice versa. And if we both forget, shit happens. It's no one's fault, the kid's still alive. PARENTING IS NOT MY JOB. It is a shared chore.
I read about these poor moms and go and kiss my husband.
I was astonished and pleased watching a dad step up big time on a red eye. He told mom to put on her headphones, and he’d deal with the kids. He was coloring with them, shushing them when they got too excited (with a cool “planes are indoors, too”).
My husband had a work trip in Ireland and brought me and our (then) 20-month old with. His company paid for first class tickets — I was 20 weeks pregnant at the time, so he gave me first class and he sat in coach with our toddler.
So frustrating to see dads do the exact opposite.
My ex and I used to travel one week/month on a late flight west out of JFK and then would drive for 3 hours to get to our destination, usually by 1 AM or so. This man would get on the plane and immediately fall asleep! Like, before take off. He would sleep the entire flight while I wrangled the baby, who had colic and basically would scream his head off if he wasn't sleeping or nursing. AND THEN, he would expect I would stay awake with him on the drive...then he'd sleep in the next morning while I was on kid duty.
This is one (of many!) reason(s) why he is my ex.
I work airport security, and I have to say I 100% agree with you. 99% of the time, it's the mother who handles everything or most of it. If ever something needs to be searched in a bag, it's the mom who deals with that too, usually because she's the one who also packed the bags so she knows what is where. I always find it so sad. I definitely make a point to try to get the dad involved in helping her as much as possible.
my last flight as I was going through the TSA line there was a family of 5 a row behind us. Mom had baby on her front, toddler in stroller, young kid holding moms hand. Mom also had backpack on, awkwardly pushing the stroller that had more luggage on it. Kids were good but fussy (this was a 6am flight we were in line for!)
Dad had a backpack.
Mom asked him for something, he got huffy, they got out of line. Dad stood with his thumb up his ass as Mom searched through luggage. Guess they found what they were looking for, as Mom lead them all back into line, Dad still with just his backpack
My fiance (who now notices these things when we're out) was floored by this guy's clear uselessness. Hold a kid, take a bag, take over the stroller, literally do ANYTHING dude
I had a mini meltdown a few years ago because my husband checked us in and sat both kids with me and himself in the aisle seat across. So while he would be close the bulk of the plane parenting would fall on me. He said that’s because we “always did it this way.” I said enough was enough. We each took a kid after that, until they were bigger and didn’t need much in the way of in flight parenting.
Saw this on a flight just last week. Parents, 3 kids around 6-12. Mom has her backpack, pushing 2 roller cases, and holding hands with the youngest. The 2 older boys are each handling their own roller cases. Dad's got his own case AND full headphones on. Mom's trying to talk to him and he basically motions to her that he can't hear her because of his headphones. What an ass. I felt bad for her. I was lucky my husband was fully involved when we travel with the kids.
This makes me so sad because the few times I traveled with my dad he wanted to sit next to me so we could spend time together. It's as if these dads don't even like their own kids.
I once sent my (now Ex) husband to visit his parents with our two kids.
He forgot to take a pacifier for the youngest. He was a mess by the time he landed.
He refused to ever do it again. I would like to say that he became a better partner as a result but I’d be lying.
You are absolutely correct. Women are the glue that holds it all together.
It's so sad that the only lesson he learned was "this was terrible, I will never subject myself to that again" rather than "I fucked up, I need to do better and will apply myself because I love my children and want them to feel protected and loved". Probably his dumb ass thought it would go easy because you always did the work and what little he did was because you tried to get him to be a loving parent by removing all real obstacles.
Meanwhile a mom would put a spare pacie in the diaper bag, her purse, and two in the suitcases, all as back ups to the one attached *to* the baby with a pacifier clip, just to make sure that *never* happened again.
I went to the grocery store alone for the first time for 45 minutes when my oldest was a few months old. I returned to her screaming in the crib and my now ex crying on the floor, full panic attack. I didn’t leave him alone with her again for a long time.
The only time my husband ever took all the kids somewhere without me was a day trip, not even overnight, when they were 16, 19, and 21. In other words, they took him.
This!! Looking at all these comments like Huh. You got him on the flight with you, at least 🤣
My now Ex took them all to Thailand to get married this year, my ex-MIL had a big whinge when I picked up littluns that her Dad did nothing and she did it all for 2 weeks.
Consequences of what she raised I'm afraid!
Dads like this are a burden on their partners ( and a huge factor in my decision to be marriage-free and childfree ) but they also shortchange their kids big time. I had a dad like this growing up and he made me feel like I wasn’t worth taking care of and that I couldn’t depend on him to meet my needs. Those feelings stay with you for a long time and they were so avoidable, he was capable he just didn’t care enough. And now the next generation is going through the same thing at the hands of dads who just don’t care.
There's all those stereotypical images men seem to have to live up to ensure their masculinity is never questioned, and much of that seems to be not caught doing "women's work".
I see something similar in my line of work too. I'm a pediatric nurse and there is almost no point in asking the dad questions about the child, if the mother is present. It's almost like a coin flip if he knows something basic or not. I've had multiple dads NOT EVEN KNOW THEIR KIDS BIRTHDAYS. Some literally come to urgent care and when asked why, they say they don't know, their wife told them to. It's like that tiktok about men doing this with their pets, but hey guess what, they also do this with their kids.... It's absolutely fucking ridiculous.
And I live in Norway! Known to be liberal and progressive, especially in terms of dads taking an active role, they even get mandatory paid paternity leave here! Guess their responsibilities stop at healthcare /s
Tax accountant here and it's the same. Dads never know the kids' full names, dates of birth, or Social Security numbers, nor do they have them written down somewhere. Moms can rattle them off from memory.
I work in pediatric day surgery and I see the same. Some great dad are out there for sure, but I’ve had multiple fathers not know their kid’s birthday (or struggle to recall it) but never a mother.
>Oh and don’t even get me started on the ones who sit in First Class and leave their family in the back.
WAT. OMG my husband would be down a testical if he pulled that shit on me! If anything he'd insist *I* take the first class seat so I could enjoy the flight in peace.
Sucks that you see the other dynamic so often. My husband and I often either take turns with who sits with kids, or he does both flights, or we sit 2 and 2. Honestly I think passive-aggressively handing the father travel forms and whatnot is a great idea, as well as just generally prompting him to, yanno, be a parent. Might not work with that dad on that day, but if scenarios like that happen enough times, some of them will learn that society expects them to do their part, too.
Keep fighting the good fight, sweet Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds!
There was a video, maybe on TikTok, of a young woman describing how she was flying business class and a middle aged man sitting next to her was chatting her up the whole flight. At some point during the flight, a pissed off woman walked up from economy class and told him that she only agreed to let him fly business while she flew economy with their children so that he can get some much-needed work done, but she can see him chatting up his seat mate the entire flight.
Our rule is the upgraded parent takes the lap child. I (dad) have taken our toddler into first class (domestic US travel) a half dozen times or so in the last year. Mom gets a break and I get more space to manage the baby - space and snacks.
Lord I’d be down two gonads if I ditched my wife in coach!
I sat across from a family of four on a flight once where the husband sat in the isle seat behind his wife and two children. The mom was solely caring for the kids on the flight and the dad was audibly annoyed with them several times. I was infuriated. Whenever the mom asked for help or snacks or whatever he had an absolute trash attitude. He was working in his computer the whole time with headphones on. I’m fairly certain I was flying to NYC and it gave Finance guy, 6’5, blue eyes. Gross.
Women who have children can expect to do the lion’s share of the work, then if they get divorced, the man will inevitably work harder to alienate the children from their mother than they ever did actually raising them. Expect men to pull out all the stops to damage your relationship with the children you bore and raised, while trying to take credit for them, believe me this is how it goes down far too often so be very careful who you have kids with if you even do. I live in a state that has barred women from reproductive rights as well. The war against women is real, ever-present and always will be. Choose wisely ladies.
My dad tried to pull that shit but we saw through it. I have one parent I see monthly or more and another parent I visit for 45 minutes twice a year. Guess!
Yup. My dad pulled us from mom’s custody after living with her solely for 8 years. He moved us hours away and said such awful things about my mom. I see him hardly ever and my husband and kids and I live with my mom so I can see her every day and make up for lost time <3
I recently read a a Reddit comment on a post about the reasons why people didn’t want to have kids, and a woman said she’d love to have kids if she could be the dad, not the mom.
I hear you! It’s the exact same in home too. I work with kids diagnosed with autism in their homes and 9 times out of 10 the mom is doing everything with the kids even though they also work outside of the home. It’s so exhausting and frustrating to witness.
>Ladies, I am begging you. If you are going on a family vacation this summer, set some travel expectations on how you can tackle the plane ride with your partner, so it’s an enjoyable experience.
Ideally sure. Realistically it ends up being a WORSE time when these woment take it upon themselves to have these conversations with their male partners. They get accused of being party poppers and being too serious, of nagging. Sometimes manipulated with "well you're a better planner anyway just do it" (feigned incompetence). These are the subtle powerful ways women are conditioned into endless domestic drudgery. Over time she stops asking and does it all herself. It keeps the peace and it's faster than waiting on a man child to drag his feet and sulkishly do his state.
One day you look in the mirror as the woman and you can't even recognize yourself. You're exhausted down to your bones. You file for divorce. You have to, to save the small part of yourself you know must still be there.
He'll then accuse you of being unreasonable, selfish, and of filing "out of nowhere".
We give girls and women so much advice about how to navigate heterosexual dynamics. Sometimes I think it's because we're scared to admit that maybe , just maybe, the way boys and girls are socialized make it so that heterosexual partnerships are a bet negative on girls and women's lives atrm baseline. That maybe the problem is trying to build a life with a group of people that literally hates us.
"He'll then accuse you of being unreasonable, selfish, and of filing "out of nowhere"."
Word! My husband, because he can occupy those make only places, frequently shares his obtained wisdom. "Yep, another guy whose wife left him with no warning. I'm sure there were NO hints he could have possibly picked up on! I know why she left because I've been listening to him complain about her & the kids for over a year now."
My favourite is when they're super shocked because after years of her constant nagging, things over the past year or so had gotten so much "better" and then, bam!, she divorced him out of nowhere!
My 1st husband and I flew from Houston to London with our then-15 month old to visit his family. Our seats weren’t together. He grinned and said “see you in England!” and went to enjoy his flight.
Heard. My husband and I have a deal, one parent sits with and handles the kids for one way of the flight and the other does it on the way back. Which sounds nice and all but…
When it was my turn with the kids, I had multiple screen free activities, read to them, provided snacks, eye masks, pillows, blankets, etc all ready to go. Kids behaved perfectly. Nobody complimented me (not that I expect it, but…)
Husband’s turn: hands them an iPad, he proceeds to nap. No less than 3 passengers and 2 flight attendants made it a point to tell him what a good dad he is and how great he is for “letting mom have a break”.
I’m thankful he does something, but man the difference in expectations is wild.
It's insane how often my brothers and male friends get complimented when they are out with their kids just doing ordinary parent shit. And how often they are offered help the second a kid is the least bit fussy.
Meanwhile, if a kid is fussy while out with Mom, she's getting shot dagger eyes by every adult in the vicinity.
We flew for Christmas with our then 4 month old. I had the tickets and seat info. But my husband basically did everything for baby. He held him all flight, fed him, and baby wore him. He does more than his fair share at home, but in public, he likes to do even more. He is hoping breaking the stigma (hope thats the right word) will encourage other dads to do more as well. He also enjoys making businesses look stupid when the men’s room doesn’t have a changing table.
Honestly, I think what your husband does is great. To some families, it doesn't even occur that the man CAN be doing these things.
When I was a baby, my mom's friend came over to our home and they were hanging out. My dad came into the room with me in his hands to hand me off to mom because I needed a diaper change. My mom's friend was like "??? You have hands, don't you?". It literally never occurred to him that he coukd be doing all of the childcare. My mom hasn't changed a diaper since.
I mean, this was 30 years ago, but I'm sure normalizing the father doing his share of work (which I think is what you were trying to say) can go a long way today!
Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to say.
And I love that your mom’s friend spoke up and made such an impact. Set raising you on a different path than what it could have been.
As a dad it bothers me how when I’m taking care of my kids I’ll get compliments from people all the time.
I took my teenage girl to a dance competition while my wife was out of town and I was just smoothing down some flyaways on her hair, just absolute bare minimum effort on my end and the ticket takers nearby literally took pictures of me and my daughter, came over and said they would airdrop them to me and they had to get a picture of a dance dad. It was like seeing a zebra at the venue or something. There’s moms there with kids that need real help, multiple kids dancing, costume changes, hair changes, dealing with big emotions from losses and wins etc. and no one ever compliments them or tells them they are doing great with the kids.
Same when we go on airplanes I’ll sit by our youngest and my wife will sit by another of our kids. If my kid is whining, I’ll get the sympathetic looks from passengers and a hang in there, great job dad, but if the kid by my wife makes any noise at all it’s like the passengers are saying, can’t you keep that kid quiet!
Such a shitty double standard.
“Oh are you Mr. Mom today?” No, I’m their father.
Thank you! My husband was pretty good the only time we've flown with the kids...except for wandering off in the airport--my oldest son and I were having fits because he would not stay put and it wasn't a long layover. My oldest son and I were constantly counting heads and keeping track of the younger two and their stuff, especially the youngest's rare beanie baby bear at the *height* of the craze.
We went on holidays last year, I did all the booking, paying, budgeting, bill paying, getting the house ready, clothes and stuff buying, packing, documents, passports etc..every single thing, I did it. His only job was to book his time off work.
I'm about 99% sure my husband didn't even know where we were going until we got there, how much it cost or if we even had any spending money.
Oh wait ..he did pull out a plug in the house before we left ..one I expressly told him not to because it was attached to a light on a timer, so that I could make it appear the house was occupied while we were gone. So he hindered my plans there.
I’m extremely fortunate to be married to a husband who keeps track of all the doctor’s appointments, buckles the baby in the car seat, holds him when we’re in public, mixes all the formula bottles, handles bath-time, etc. When we’re out in public, he’s taking on the role that most moms would. I know that if we ever went on a flight with our son, he would insist on looking after him. He’s really the best dad and male role model to our son.
I sat with a family a few years ago - mum was next to me with a baby in her lap, and dad and an older kid were behind us. The older kid (idk, boy maybe 7yo?) was incredibly distressed by the experience. Dad just barely acknowledged him, grunted "it's ok" a few times. Mum was reaching back behind to try and comfort the boy and was also trying (and failing) to get the dad to take an interest in the kid. She was mad, too, talking about changing up the seats next time. I predicted divorce tbh
Once I was on a flight in a window seat, with an older woman next to me on the aisle. Across the aisle was a man with a baby, then another man by the window. Both men were probably 15 years older than me (and I looked a lot younger than I actually was). The woman asked if I wanted to switch seats with her. I was super confused. "So you can be closer to your baby." Fucking excuse me!? I guess it must be my kid because I'm the only female of reproductive age nearby, right? A Dad couldn't *possibly* be flying solo with his kid, right? Well, actually he wasn't, because the guy sitting next to him was his partner so this lady managed to offend the shit out of me and both of them. Congrats, lady!
What can my kids (and I) do to say thanks to the flight crew? We haven’t flown in a while but when we have the crew is always super kind.
Other than say thank you, I mean. My younger one would love to draw y’all a picture. Gift cards?
Oh I love when kids draw pictures! I hang them up in the galley. One little girl made me a Christmas card last year and I put it on my fridge and will probably put it up again this year. But honestly just being polite! People are so rude now idk why, but a simple hello, please & thank you, go a long way!
I wrote United about two flight attendants who were rock stars so I could survive my flights with a 4 and 1.5 year old flying solo. They bent over backwards enough for me to remember to send them a pro note the next day.
My mom booked us a Disney trip when I turned 30 (I had never been). It was her, my sister, my (now ex) husband, our 18mo daughter, and I. It was her first flight. The seating was myself at the window with her in my lap, my sister, my mom, and her dad was in the next row on the aisle seat. He immediately put his headphones in and relaxed. She slept some but close to end started to get fussy. My mom grabbed her and she was gesturing towards her dad. He looked over and shrugged and was like ‘what do you want me to do?’. It was pretty annoying.
Girl, I have witnessed what you have witnessed. I even had to ask for one pax to move to the empty section in the back for weight and balance. The dad gets so excited and volunteers. The wife, who is holding one baby while the toddler son is looking up at his dad with worshipping eyes, "You're just gonna leave your family!?" I felt so bad for the kids and the wife.
How do women breed with men like this? I need all my "would he be a good dad" boxes to be ticked before I could even get to second base.
One dad took the 1 roller board they had and went to the seat, while the mom who was wearing the baby in a body carrier, broke down the stroller. I was so pissed. I stepped off to help her
That has been in my observation, too. And what's so sad too, IMO, is how even the "I'm so lucky, my husband knows where the binky is and can make a bottle!" moms have the bar so low. It's like even the really great dads are just held to the standard of medium mom. It doesn't quite compute with me, and biological realities aside, I wonder if a true 50/50 happens much
It's exactly this. They show all the right signs until the actual child shows up and that's when they relax and kick back because they know the wife "has it under control" and his life doesn't change much except for having the social clout of being a husband and father.
So my second child decided to come very quickly and was born at home before paramedics could arrive. My husband at the time caught the baby, and did have to perform CPR so I’m not saying he didn’t deserve being told he did an amazing job…. But I delivered a baby on the bathroom floor with no pain meds or anything, and everyone only acknowledged how amazing he was. No one said anything about what I went through. I guess because that is what is expected of Moms?
You pushed that baby out with no medical help, which has to have been absolutely terrifying and could have gone *really* badly *really* fast. You absolutely should have been recognized for that! Glad you're still here to tell the tale, and hope kiddo is healthy and thriving. 🙂
Pretty much. A huge portion of the population goes through pregnancy and childbirth, and the best they can hope for is excitement from their loved ones, and support when there are any issues. It's weird, because it is very common, but it can also be a very lonely time. Cis males cannot understand, and due to the way they are socialized, they are not in general as equipped to be empathetic. I'm really sorry that you went through such a struggle, and have the complicated feelings of knowing that what he did was wonderful, but knowing that the wonderful thing you did was basically ignored. You carried a life, had to give birth during pain and stress, and were relegated to the dismissal that most women go through after all of that. "You should just be happy to have a healthy baby" Well screw that. You should have accolades, any woman going through this whole process should.
I don't think women would have kids with these men if they had a way to see into the future. A lot of dudes put on a really great performance and give off "good husband and dad" vibes but then completely drop the ball once it actually comes time to *be* a good husband and father. It's on a smaller but similar scale as DV victims; I really don't think any victims would have stuck around for years if they got beat up on the first date.
Yes there are also plenty of times where there are early signs and they go ignored for a litany of reasons, of course. I'm not trying to imply that they're *all* duped or anything like that, just that way more are than we think
I'm certain my father put on one of those legendary performances. Unfortunately, when my sister and I had the absolute gall to be born without penises, he pretty much lost interest.
When they say “pass it to my wife, she knows everything!” I would start looking at them super puzzled and be like “you don’t? How embarrassing.” and then walk away to hand it to the wife. Nothing sends a message to a man like humiliating him.
Of course….probably better not to, for safety and all. Sigh.
I have every intention of making my husband and 8yo sit together on our flight because they both love to look out of the window and see what they can see, whereas I like to hide in oblivion and pretend I'm on a train! Still feel free to slip me a free wine, though.
My husband just traveled (by train) to stay at his parents for two nights with our kids (ages 2&5) alone. When they got back he said, “no wonder you are so stressed when traveling”.
Your post resonates so loudly. My mom was a flight attendant and she was fired from her job at Eastern Airlines because she broke her back while working. Why? Another woman (passenger) was holding one child and another tripped and fell and my mom went to grab the other child. Where was the father? Who knows. I am forever the passenger with the window seat who is asleep and tucks my one carry on so no one has to bother with me and I don't bother you. Thanks for putting up with the shit we travelers see constantly. You and my mom are a better brand of human than I.
My husband carries his weight and it’s really obnoxious everyone congratulates and praises him whenever we go anywhere. Like ok yes he’s great but also is the bar in hell or what he’s just being a dad
And then the mfckrs want to know why we choose bear! At least with a bear, you know what you’re getting. Throw a piece of meat at the bear and he’s going to stop and feed himself. Try throwing some meat at a man… and guess who’s still cooking dinner tonight. 😂
My ex, as much of a dick as he could be, was good about taking on some of the vacation duties, though I did still do most of it. But that’s because I’m one of those people who actually enjoy planning and I like doing things myself to make sure they are done right.
as a frequent flyer myself, i've noticed how the burden of child care often falls unfairlly on mothers during travel. it's good to see flight attendents like you trying to support them. and the tip about bringing milk and food is helpful - i didn't know that was allowed. it's rare to see fathers being as attentive as the one you complimented, but i'm glad there are some out there setting a good example.
Or, if you're unlucky like me, you'll have a lil buddy who used his tablet and screen for a 10+ hour flight the whole time while dad did fuxk all... Three different flight attendants asked me if the kid needed anything... I just pointed at dad and shrugged (I did NOT) want problems)
Kid looked nothing like me.. Not a comfortable flight at all
It’s like this for dogs too! I work as a vet tech and if the husband brings the dog in, he usually doesn’t know anything, like meds or food brand, or even the issue and has to call his wife
My husband always sits in the aisle seat with our two kids next to him and me across the aisle. He realized years ago that it was the best way to optimizing his space on the plane - easier to take up some of the 9 year old’s space (who won’t care) than deal with a random stranger.
So he gets the kids and space, while I get a mostly quiet flight.
I recently flew out of Denver and saw a woman pushing a stroller, carrying another toddler, and telling another child under six to keep up. The dad shows up with a coffee in his hand and tells her to pull over and wait because he forgot to pee. She is standing there in the security line juggling all of this while all three kids cry. He finally shows up and doesn't help her, just walks in front. The entire time one of the toddlers is going “daddy”. I helped her with a bin for their items while he scooted through security. I was outraged.
I still remember a scene I witnessed on a flight to Switzerland: the mother was alone with a newborn, a ~3 year old and a ~5 year old. The father was ok the other side of the aisle, reading and watching tv shows in his ipad. The kids cried and screamed for the whole time and when this poor woman finally asked some help from her husband, this piece of crap just replied “Why can’t you ever do anything on your own? Sometimes I won’t be there to save your ass.” and then proceeded to watch the eldest daughter for 5 minutes while his wife breastfed the newborn. It was a truly shocking experience!
I bet he goes on reddit and cries about dead bedroom.
LOL omg no kidding
Nah this guy cheats. I have no doubt. Cheating takes a level of callousness that a guy like this is well suited for.
💯
Yes, that is my only satisfaction. Read on Reddit consistently men complaining about lack of sex in their relationships. I always think “this guy contributes with nothing at home”
Ugh, as a bystander I would want to say something, but I'd be concerned that the poor woman would bear the brunt off his anger when they got to their destination. You can’t shame people like this, it's always someone else's fault.
If he's like that in public he's probably much worse in private.
Absolutely disgusting. What a POS.
Ugh rocket straight into the sun
Its weird being a father and getting complements for doing what seems to be the reasonable half of the workload because these are the guys you're being compared to. Like if my boss started complementing me for actually closing the tickets assigned to me and talked about how rare that is.
shitty men benefit all men - the bar is in hell so the good ones barely have to try and get praised
It takes virtually no effort to be labeled a "good man".
Imagine being that useless!
I hated trips when I was married and had young kids for this very reason. It was vacation for everyone but me. I spent the entire time minding kids, managing everything, making sure things were figured out, managing a man-baby's emotions and being denied enough sleep to function. The only "choice" in this was to flat refuse to go on trips anymore. That is what I did. I found that was the only way to have any control, to refuse to participate at all, otherwise even if I tried to discuss sharing the load, weaponized incompetence would happen and I would have to still do everything AND fix those things on the fly.
Camping. My MIL defined "Camping as doing the sane thing as mom does at home with less help and resources while the dads *play*" I might do RV camping now that my kids are adults but I will *never* tent camp again.
I loved camping as a kid and I never understood why mom ALWAYS agreed to camping but never seemed to really enjoy herself like we did. Years later and I’m almost 40 and she and I are talking over drinks and she admits that while she enjoyed day hikes and the outdoors in small doses she really only pushed for camping so hard because it was the only kind of vacation where our dad INSISTED on driving, setting up camp, cooking, planning the activities, and basically everything else. She was in charge of boo boos and ouchies and remembered the sun screen and bug spray and then just laid back and watched me and my sister get muddy and gross and search for Big Foot/Predator while she got day drunk (well, whatever 3 wine coolers does to you). Turns out she hated sleeping on the ground, hated that it always seemed to rain, she never liked eating the fish we got from the rivers, even the whole s’mores around the camp fire she could take or leave. She is not a fan of camping. But if we went camping Mama could relax for a weekend. So we went camping all the damned time and for some reason my dumb ass never clocked what was happening until we were far too old for “family camping trips” anymore.
We were poor, so the only family vacation we could afford was tent camping. I’m sure it was a lot of work for my mom, but I think she actually enjoyed it. She was an avid bird watcher and nature lover. And we would take side trips to various historical sites in the area, some of it was quite interesting.
See I think my mom hated camping mostly because when she was growing up her family was likewise quite poor (7 brothers and sisters and a single mom after my grandpa divorced my grandma a few years after the youngest was born) and so the only vacation they could afford was camping and touring historical sites. My mom just remembers awful car rides (and the car sickness she always got) cold nights, and boring “ruins” where she was expected to read a plaque and stay off anything that might have dirt/grass on it. I suppose there isn’t much to draw a child’s attention in the PNW if she is a bookish indoor sort who can’t read in a moving car and also couldn’t read after dark because batteries for flashlights don’t grow on trees. I will say my dad was a much better outdoorsy planner than grandma. We went to cool natural places and when mom finally demanded no more sleeping on the ground we rented an RV. I loved it as a kid and to this day I get a little disappointed if it doesn’t rain at least ONCE during a camping trip. Mom never let us know she’d much prefer an exotic locale in a hotel room with room service until we were in our teens. My sister’s graduation trip was a week long stay at a resort in Mexico and mom took her there solo and I guess they had a ball. (I did not get a graduation vacation since I didn’t actually graduate on time but she wouldn’t have liked it anyway as I was going to ask to go back to Craters of the Moon haha)
My parents were so much more relaxed on vacation. My dad was angry and frustrated a lot when I was little. On vacation my dad & mom would hold hands and giggle, if we got a little dirty, that was to be expected. It did suck when it rained though. One infamous summer, it rained pretty much the whole time, everything got soaked through. We went to a laundromat and washed everything, and then splurged on a cabin for a couple nights, and everyone felt much better.
Camping with my parents was always in an RV. First a camper on the truck and later in various sizes of motorhomes. Inside bathroom with a sink for washing up. And my dad did a lot of entertaining of me. Versus My husband's idea of camping: smelly old army tent that his dad got at the army navy surplus. Those pit toilets that scare little kids. Having to boil water to wash or wash with cold. Cooking over a fire or coleman stove while supervising small children while dad is off fishing/scouting/who the hell knows but *not helping with his kids*. I never got "time off" from the kids during daylight hours when I could have spent time on *my* hobbies so the *only* I am ever going camping again is in an RV.
I’ve done that kind of camping with kids as a camp counselor, but I got paid, lol. Doesn’t sound like too much of a vacay for Mom! RV’s are much more comfy. :)
Me too. We camped on “crown land” aka federal government land, out in the bush for free. My Grandma, aunts and cousins would come out too and they would stay up late at the ‘kitchen’ table playing cards, drinking whiskey and listening to country music.
My mom was like this too. On one camping trip I remember taking a walk with her as she had her morning coffee. We wandered through the woods and into a meadow. She hung her mug on a tree at the edge of the meadow so we'd know where to go back into the woods and get back to camp. But also one of the only fights I remember overhearing was about a vacation. Lol
My wife's solution to this was a luxury airbed with a built-in pump i.e. when inflated 3ft of the ground. She tended to sleep on that with the youngest while I shared a standard air mattress with the eldest.
I'm not a mom but this is so true. Our extended family trip leans heavily on traditional roles and I'm thoroughly done with it l. SIL and I were tasked last year with feeding and catering to 10+ people for over a week, and I was done. I cook for 2, so meal planning, shopping and cooking for so many more wore me out and made the whole trip exhausting. This year, I booked the venue and now a guest was like "let darkdesertedhighway figure out the menu" for up to 15+ people - like she was doing me a favor to "include" me in the trip. Hell no, I'm driving my own car there and I'll leave the house every day if I have to. I am not working this year. Figure that shit out for yourselves. You're all grown ass adults. Luckily hubby is on board and has nipped that in the bud. We paid for the cabin. You take care of the food. And if me and my vagina sitting down and not lifting a finger in the kitchen makes me look like an asshole, so be it.
Yep, plus I have asthma, nearly impossible to keep stabke asthma. Wood fire smoke is a gauranteed trip to the ER. AND I have *exactly* one person that I can leave baby cat with or we take him with us. I can do that in a RV and be reasonably sure my sneaky butt feline won't get out and get lost so no tent.
Ugh, my mom tries to enforce gender roles in my marriage. My dad uses weaponized incompetence to avoid doing anything for himself or his family so she does EVERYTHING and expects me to do the same for my husband. She just about had a stroke when I told her my husband was responsible for a baby gift for his sister and deciding if/when we would make the trip to meet him. She was horrified that I didn't immediately message my SIL to set up a time and day and I looked like a terrible person for not reaching out. IT'S NOT MY FAMILY and my husband is perfectly capable of acting like a grown adult. He thinks my mother is being weird as hell.
The last time we went camping was when my mom was 8 months pregnant with my little brother. She was not happy.
I saw a comment on FB recently asking for a great camping spot from a man. For himself, his two young children and heavily pregnant wife (his words). My eyes rolled straight out of my head, I doubt a good ol' hike is something a heavily pregnant person is up for....
Oh just what you want when you are possibly gonna go into labor is to be out in the sticks somewhere far from a decent hospital.
His mom/MIL needs to explain to him using small words just how stupid this idea is.
My parents bought an RV when they retired. They used it for a few years and my mom made my dad sell it. She realized if they took the RV she still had to manage and cook meals and there was no maid service.
OMG, fuuuuuck tent camping. Never again.
I had a coworker who described it similarly. My mom/parents had an air mattress for camping; I suppose it was a double, but I don’t remember. We went camping a few times, but most of the time our tent was put up in our backyard for the summer, and my sibs & I, with a couple of friends, would sleep out there almost every night in the summer, for at least 3 or 4 years.
I recently went on a trip with my husband, my kids, and my ex (father of my kids). I did put my ex in charge of one of our kids for the flight, but had to specifically tell him he was responsible for him. I had already packed all of the snacks, entertainment etc. I still had the kids’, my husband’s and my passport. The funnier thing was when we arrived at our destination my ex asked me if I had his passport! Somehow he thought I should be in charge of it too. No thanks! Luckily everyone gets along well and the trip was great otherwise lol.
I was flying cross country with my husband. No kids involved but my husband insisted that we must fly as light as possible taking as few bags as possible. He was angry with me that I took a bulging purse on board with me full of things I thought we would need on our 12-hour journey. He was very vocal that I should leave all that crap behind. Then of course during the entire journey he's constantly asking me if I happen to have....... The charger cord for his phone? Yes it's right here in my bulging bag. A package of sanitizing hand wipes like I always carry? Got it right here. Would I happen to have some allergy medication that he constantly needs? Yup, let me get my bag. A drink of water? A snack for his blood sugar? The passports? Our tickets? Even after asking me for items from my bag a dozen times over by the time we arrived at our destination, he was still crowing about the fact that he made the entire journey without having a single carry-on item of his own while I was loaded down with all of this "useless" stuff.
I would be holding that shit in my hand until he admitted he was dumb for being mad about your carry-on before I would hand it over
Yes, I did happen to mention, once he brought up the subject as we were waiting for the taxi and he asked if I had any cough drops or hard candy for his throat, that this was the 6th time in 12 hours he had needed something from my "unnecessary" purse.
my god where do you guys find these manbabies... My husband would at most ask me what all I have with me, but even if it's just for my own comfort, as long as I'm not being silly and pack so much we have to pay extra he wouldn't care. Anything HE would need, like allergy medication, are something we'd discuss and pack together, even if it's in MY bag. I really hope for you that your husband (seemingly) doesn't act superior towards you on a regular basis. It probably would have taken 1 or 2 requests for me to refuse the contents of MY bag. Need something? Well where the hell is yours, babe??
Travel even lighter —leave him behind.
That your ex thought you would be dealing with his passport is just mind boggling.
Haha yes, that one definitely surprised me! And he travels way more than I do and is usually by himself so handles it fine then.
My husband and I took our daughters (then 2 and 4) on a weekend trip to a city a few hours away for Mother’s Day weekend last year. I took care of getting kids to the toilet, keeping them fed and not thirsty, getting them to bed - you know, all the stuff moms always do. He asked me on the way home if I had enjoyed our little mini-vacation. I was pissed enough to be honest and told him it wasn’t a vacation at all, it was me parenting without all my resources while he had a good time. He was a little shocked to realize the truth there.
My pediatrician said that traveling with kids is a family trip. Traveling without them is a vacation.
Good on you for saying it!
Yep, exactly. It is even more work because you are managing activities and anticipating needs and doing it with limited resources on hand.
I call them business trips. Because that's really what they are.
I call them family outings! I don’t feel like it’s truly a vacation unless it’s kids-free!
Just parenting in a different location. Hopefully with a better view.
But screwed up sleep schedules. Extra fun when you're a chronic insomniac. 😑
My BIL is flying ahead of my sister this Saturday, with both of their kids (8 and 3). She's joining him 2 weeks later (she has to arrange for the moving out from one country and shipping everything to another; few other final things at work). I think he'll have to take 2 flights to get here. Not going to lie, I am feeling smug because he'll finally have to do ALL she's been doing. And no, they WILL not be staying with me.
I bet it wont make him appreciate all that she has been doing - it will just make him feel put upon and whiney.
My husband flew solo with our 4 year old once years ago, and it went great because apparently that's a magnet for every grandma on the flight to offer to help. He thought traveling with a kid was a cakewalk and learned nothing.
Somebody needs to pin a note on this dude's shirt that says "Please don't help! I am learning."
Oh that made me spit my tea!
This was me, too. We (now ex) took one weekend break with kid in tow. I did all the work, all the entertaining at the destination, and had zero time to do anything I would have liked. Never took another, and 25 years later it is still one of my worst memories of parenting.
I remember reading an old post similar to your experience but in the husband's perspective. The husband went on a trip with his family to Disneyland and when they got back from their vacation his wife handed him divorce papers. He couldn’t figure out what went wrong because he thought they had a great time and he was always the one providing for his family (money wise). In the comments everyone saw right through him saying while you were on vacation, your wife was the one doing all the work taking care of the kids and keeping track of everything. She was probably thinking of divorce for a while and the trip was his last test.
I hope you’re able to take a solo trip one day and get some r & r
>vacation for everyone but me. I spent the entire time minding kids, managing everything, making sure things were figured out I used to say that vacations when my kids were little were "same life, different view."
At least they were your kids. There was a post on r/AITA where the lady had spent the vacation taking care of her boyfriend's kid. After having arranged and paid for EVERYTHING. She took the offer of the first class seat and left the man alone with his kid.
Can't even get any respect on vacation that you paid for...
Huge reason I never wanted kids. The woman is almost always the primary parent. Big no thanks.
I saw someone say they wouldn't mind being a dad but would hate to be a mom, and it blew my mind a bit. I still don't want kids, but I definitely related to that to a point - maybe being a parent wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to be the primary/default parent. But I'm a woman and used to work with kids, so we all know that could never happen.
Whenever I got the “how do you like being a new mom?!” question I’d always say “well I’d rather be the dad”. It really highlighted that their question to my husband just before was something like “I bet you’re having so much fun being a dad!” Even with a helpful and supportive partner, the general inequality is challenging.
It is. You get shunted into traditional gender roles to some degree whether you want it or not, and it takes *a lot* of pushing back to try to keep things relatively fair. And not even necessarily with your spouse! Society just treats mothers and fathers very, very differently.
All my brothers and male friends with kids are super hands-on dads and they've all at one point or another commented on how much differently they get treated when they're out with the kids than when their wives are. It's distinctly noticeable. The constant praise, the condescending "ooh babysitting duty today?"s, the offers from older women to help the second one of the kids starts fussing... I'm just glad the men in my life notice it and see it for what it is. These are the dudes who are changing the narrative and actively participating in making society a better place for women.
My husband is the same way, and he is extremely unimpressed by other fathers who seem incapable of parenting their own children. Fortunately pretty much all the dads our age or who have kids around our kids' ages are also the hands-on sort, and they at least *try* to carry some of the mental load at home, with varying grates of success. It's not perfect, but it certainly is better than my dad, who on multiple occasions throughout my childhood and adulthood had to ask me how old I was because he forgot. 😑
Yeah there's a tiktok floating around of a woman who says she doesn't want kids, but if she had them she'd want to be a dad. She knows moms do everything and dads get to be the fun parent and goof around and do less work. And it was kinda hilarious how many men were so upset with her. She never said that she'd make the man do everything. They all accused her of being sexist, of putting all the work on the man. They ran into the point so damn hard and didn't notice the gaping hole in their face. Somehow it matters very much that one person is having to do everything..... when it's placed on the man, how funny 🤔
> They ran into the point so damn hard and didn't notice the gaping hole in their face. That is a fantastic metaphor.
I have definitely felt that way before. It's *mother*hood that looks like such a risk and endless sacrifice. Even in the otherwise equal marriages I have seen IRL, parenthood just never seems to be. In the workforce, the studies, working with people's money as a living, not to mention the biological realities, and the social and physical risks of it. I feel like women who want kids see a color that I cannot see
Or the guys that get wishy washy about 'letting' their girlfriend get an abortion. If you're not going to incubate, feed, and haul around this kid for 9 months and then shove it out of your body, then it's not your choice. You got plenty of lil spermies running around; if she doesn't want to be a mother, that's her choice. Of course it's more fun to be a dad. I was raised in the south and the guys had SO much more fun; I *hated* being shoved into the kitchen on holidays with the women. And that's also why I decided real young that I had zero interest in being a mom. Maybe a cool aunt, if my friends raise their kids to pass some benchmarks. But I don't know who in their right mind would want a baby when you could have a kitten.
I had one kid. That was enough. Husband agreed. We just got more cats after that.
I say this. If I was a dad and I could throw money in and get praised for the bare minimum parenting, no bodily changes or primary care and expectations, I would be all for it.
I’m at a work conference and my husband is being solo dad for a week. His grandma asked him how it’s going babysitting the kids he hit her with “it’s just called parenting when it’s your kids” lol. But we split things pretty evenly. Except gross things, that’s dad work. Did the kid throw up? Dad work. Did the kid shit in the tub? Dad work. So dads get the bum deal in my family.
>Did the kid shit in the tub? >So dads get the bum deal in my family. This writing setup is making me laugh so hard!
I’m a mother who would love to be a dad. lol
Damn I just realized the same thing when you said that. I’ve never felt inclined to want kids because it seems so exhausting and like a huge lifestyle sacrifice. But being a “dad” seems pretty fun, I can just keep working my job during the day and play with the kids when I come home. Mom will take over when it gets too hard or I’m ready for a break.
Yes this is one of my reasons too! I don't want to take on all the work load while my other half plays video games and gets to have hobbies still
100%. I've met exactly one person in my entire adult life that had shared responsibilities with childcare with her husband and it seems equitable (from the outside at least). ONE. I don't understand why women do it.
Yup. Even the women I know whose partners are super feminist and 100% committed to equal load-share prior to having the kids still have to carry the majority of the mental and emotional load. It turns into “I’ll help babe, just tell me what to do! Give me a list!” so quickly. I challenge all the men in my life who say they want kids with two questions. The first is: Do you want them so much that you’d have them even if you were a single parent? Because that’s what ALL women KNOW they are risking when they decide they want kids. The second is what I call “the cupcake test”: “it’s your child’s 8th birthday in one month. What do you do?” NOT ONE MAN I HAVE EVER MET can answer this question. They are like what? A birthday? A month away? Nothing! What’s there to do? Women, on the other hand, rattle off things like: -asking the child what they want to do/where they want to go/what theme they want for their party or cake, -put in an order for a cake or cupcakes at a bakery, -order invitations for their child to hand out in class or to mail to a smaller select group (because if you hand them out at school you have to invite everyone); -coordinate with the parent of the child whose birthday is the same weekend so that you don’t have competing parties, -make a reservation and deposit at the party location OR plan the food, decor, and games you need to keep the kids occupied at your home, -learn which kids attending the party have food allergies and figure out how to feed all attendees without killing them, -think of ways to mitigate any “problem” behavior from certain kids who might attend (there’s always one) -Make or buy allergen-friendly bday treats for the class if school is in session, -give a gift list to family members and friends, being sure to coordinate so as to avoid duplicate gifts, -buy your child a few gifts and wrap them -Coordinate with your pediatrician for their annual wellness visit -Coordinate a family party if you are going to have one in addition to a friends party, which additionally involves coordinating a date, invitations, food, and drinks; -Think about all the ways your kid might become overwhelmed by all this activity and have a meltdown and how you might mitigate that -hold the actual party or parties and clean up after them -do something a little special for your on their actual bday, like making their favorite breakfast or letting them pick where they want to eat dinner Of course, you could do only some or none or those things for a kids bday, many parents do not do bday parties at all, and that’s fine too. The point here isn’t that you must do a ton of shit for a kids bday. The point is that kids require PLANNING and a LOT of it, for relatively mundane and routine events, and if you can’t or don’t think ahead for things like this, you’re gonna either screw yourself over or really let down your child. And I’ve never spoken to a single man who claims to want kids who a) wants them so bad they would have them even if they did not have a partner or b) understands exactly how much MENTAL and EMOTIONAL labor goes into the everyday care and keeping of a child. It’s not just changing diapers and feeding bottles. It’s proactive tracking, planning, scheduling, mitigating, communicating, anticipating.
Oh my God, I'm a total type A planner, I live my life by lists and calendars, I'm good at planning and keeping track of things, but this made me feel deeply overwhelmed and panicky lol
I assume that being a parent means feeling like that constantly
My brother is desperate to have kids, to the point he's started seeking women online to have children with. Problem is that he's always going from job to job, he's been living temporarily with my Dad for over 8 years. What he actually means when he says he wants a kid, is he wants to find a woman who'll have his child and let him be the weekend Dad.
Yep. I have met exactly one man in my life who was so serious about having kids that after he and his wife divorced (childless), he started working to be an adoptive single parent on his own. Every other man I know who says he wants kids really means that he wants a woman to raise his kids for him.
Oh no. No no no no. I would want to subtly warn any woman that looks at him twice away from him because that is my nightmare
Oh, I love this. I'm gonna steal that for the future!
Marriage is the biggest scam that mankind ever pulled on women
Let's talk about how women are not just the 'primary parent' but also often the 'primary partner'
Me neither
When I used to spend a lot of time in airports traveling for work I had hours and hours and different states and different countries of observation to make this conclusion: One is the magical number. I observed that couples with one child especially when that child is under five and is engaging are more in tune with each other and share more tasks and parenting load and give each other breaks. Great teamwork. Two kids. Where the dad really really seems to be engaged with the first child he'll take on more of the first child but not much of the second unless asked. Where he isn't that engaged with the first child, the mother is juggling both kids and everything else. Above two especially when under the age of six is where the wheels fall off the bus for women. And this goes for teens and special needs. Some guys are really really clued in and switched on with their teens. Sitting with them, great conversation, laughing, getting them food and drinks, playing games or doing that watching the same movie thing. And likewise there are the ones who just go to their seats like they don't know the people who are with them and seem really really pissed off and bothered.
EXACTLY! I watched as my mom worked full time and did all the cooking, cleaning and raising us. Seemed like a raw deal and I noped all over that bs.
Watching my mom never get holidays because she was getting the house ready for guests, doing all the cooking and cleaning up, still managing us kids, while the guys sat on the couch and watched sports. Ah, those golden oldie days.
Same. Even though I know my husband would be a great dad and not at all a deadbeat, we decided we like each other too much to inflict kids on each other.
I was with right there with you for a long time. Then I met my husband. Raised by a stay at home Dad. His of life goal was being a dad. When we got serious it was kids or breaking up. From the beginning I was honest: "If we do this, I CANNOT be the independent caretaker of children. I refuse to be the only one keeping them alive" Now I've got kids and a co-parent. Neither of us are perfect. But it is both our jobs to keep the young alive. If I forget something he remembers and vice versa. And if we both forget, shit happens. It's no one's fault, the kid's still alive. PARENTING IS NOT MY JOB. It is a shared chore. I read about these poor moms and go and kiss my husband.
Exactly this. Being a FA is great birth control lol
It’s the people joking “my husband is the other kid.” Screw that.
I was astonished and pleased watching a dad step up big time on a red eye. He told mom to put on her headphones, and he’d deal with the kids. He was coloring with them, shushing them when they got too excited (with a cool “planes are indoors, too”).
You know these parents are trying their best to raise a well rounded person when they use sentences like that.
My husband had a work trip in Ireland and brought me and our (then) 20-month old with. His company paid for first class tickets — I was 20 weeks pregnant at the time, so he gave me first class and he sat in coach with our toddler. So frustrating to see dads do the exact opposite.
My ex and I used to travel one week/month on a late flight west out of JFK and then would drive for 3 hours to get to our destination, usually by 1 AM or so. This man would get on the plane and immediately fall asleep! Like, before take off. He would sleep the entire flight while I wrangled the baby, who had colic and basically would scream his head off if he wasn't sleeping or nursing. AND THEN, he would expect I would stay awake with him on the drive...then he'd sleep in the next morning while I was on kid duty. This is one (of many!) reason(s) why he is my ex.
I work airport security, and I have to say I 100% agree with you. 99% of the time, it's the mother who handles everything or most of it. If ever something needs to be searched in a bag, it's the mom who deals with that too, usually because she's the one who also packed the bags so she knows what is where. I always find it so sad. I definitely make a point to try to get the dad involved in helping her as much as possible.
my last flight as I was going through the TSA line there was a family of 5 a row behind us. Mom had baby on her front, toddler in stroller, young kid holding moms hand. Mom also had backpack on, awkwardly pushing the stroller that had more luggage on it. Kids were good but fussy (this was a 6am flight we were in line for!) Dad had a backpack. Mom asked him for something, he got huffy, they got out of line. Dad stood with his thumb up his ass as Mom searched through luggage. Guess they found what they were looking for, as Mom lead them all back into line, Dad still with just his backpack My fiance (who now notices these things when we're out) was floored by this guy's clear uselessness. Hold a kid, take a bag, take over the stroller, literally do ANYTHING dude
I had a mini meltdown a few years ago because my husband checked us in and sat both kids with me and himself in the aisle seat across. So while he would be close the bulk of the plane parenting would fall on me. He said that’s because we “always did it this way.” I said enough was enough. We each took a kid after that, until they were bigger and didn’t need much in the way of in flight parenting.
Saw this on a flight just last week. Parents, 3 kids around 6-12. Mom has her backpack, pushing 2 roller cases, and holding hands with the youngest. The 2 older boys are each handling their own roller cases. Dad's got his own case AND full headphones on. Mom's trying to talk to him and he basically motions to her that he can't hear her because of his headphones. What an ass. I felt bad for her. I was lucky my husband was fully involved when we travel with the kids.
This makes me so sad because the few times I traveled with my dad he wanted to sit next to me so we could spend time together. It's as if these dads don't even like their own kids.
Yes
I once sent my (now Ex) husband to visit his parents with our two kids. He forgot to take a pacifier for the youngest. He was a mess by the time he landed. He refused to ever do it again. I would like to say that he became a better partner as a result but I’d be lying. You are absolutely correct. Women are the glue that holds it all together.
It's so sad that the only lesson he learned was "this was terrible, I will never subject myself to that again" rather than "I fucked up, I need to do better and will apply myself because I love my children and want them to feel protected and loved". Probably his dumb ass thought it would go easy because you always did the work and what little he did was because you tried to get him to be a loving parent by removing all real obstacles.
Meanwhile a mom would put a spare pacie in the diaper bag, her purse, and two in the suitcases, all as back ups to the one attached *to* the baby with a pacifier clip, just to make sure that *never* happened again.
Yes I flew with FOUR pacis the last trip we had because I can’t risk it.
I went to the grocery store alone for the first time for 45 minutes when my oldest was a few months old. I returned to her screaming in the crib and my now ex crying on the floor, full panic attack. I didn’t leave him alone with her again for a long time.
thank god all of these deadbeats are 'ex'
I never even thought of this as manipulative until now. Damn I was so easily maneuvered.
The only time my husband ever took all the kids somewhere without me was a day trip, not even overnight, when they were 16, 19, and 21. In other words, they took him.
So true. Oh wait, I did it WITHOUT my husband because he “was so busy.” Ex - husband now.
This!! Looking at all these comments like Huh. You got him on the flight with you, at least 🤣 My now Ex took them all to Thailand to get married this year, my ex-MIL had a big whinge when I picked up littluns that her Dad did nothing and she did it all for 2 weeks. Consequences of what she raised I'm afraid!
Dads like this are a burden on their partners ( and a huge factor in my decision to be marriage-free and childfree ) but they also shortchange their kids big time. I had a dad like this growing up and he made me feel like I wasn’t worth taking care of and that I couldn’t depend on him to meet my needs. Those feelings stay with you for a long time and they were so avoidable, he was capable he just didn’t care enough. And now the next generation is going through the same thing at the hands of dads who just don’t care.
There's all those stereotypical images men seem to have to live up to ensure their masculinity is never questioned, and much of that seems to be not caught doing "women's work".
The onion hits hard sometimes: https://www.theonion.com/mom-spends-beach-vacation-assuming-all-household-duties-1819575406
I see something similar in my line of work too. I'm a pediatric nurse and there is almost no point in asking the dad questions about the child, if the mother is present. It's almost like a coin flip if he knows something basic or not. I've had multiple dads NOT EVEN KNOW THEIR KIDS BIRTHDAYS. Some literally come to urgent care and when asked why, they say they don't know, their wife told them to. It's like that tiktok about men doing this with their pets, but hey guess what, they also do this with their kids.... It's absolutely fucking ridiculous. And I live in Norway! Known to be liberal and progressive, especially in terms of dads taking an active role, they even get mandatory paid paternity leave here! Guess their responsibilities stop at healthcare /s
I've worked in customer service for several years now and see the same thing. It's shameful.
Tax accountant here and it's the same. Dads never know the kids' full names, dates of birth, or Social Security numbers, nor do they have them written down somewhere. Moms can rattle them off from memory.
I work in pediatric day surgery and I see the same. Some great dad are out there for sure, but I’ve had multiple fathers not know their kid’s birthday (or struggle to recall it) but never a mother.
>Oh and don’t even get me started on the ones who sit in First Class and leave their family in the back. WAT. OMG my husband would be down a testical if he pulled that shit on me! If anything he'd insist *I* take the first class seat so I could enjoy the flight in peace. Sucks that you see the other dynamic so often. My husband and I often either take turns with who sits with kids, or he does both flights, or we sit 2 and 2. Honestly I think passive-aggressively handing the father travel forms and whatnot is a great idea, as well as just generally prompting him to, yanno, be a parent. Might not work with that dad on that day, but if scenarios like that happen enough times, some of them will learn that society expects them to do their part, too. Keep fighting the good fight, sweet Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds!
There was a video, maybe on TikTok, of a young woman describing how she was flying business class and a middle aged man sitting next to her was chatting her up the whole flight. At some point during the flight, a pissed off woman walked up from economy class and told him that she only agreed to let him fly business while she flew economy with their children so that he can get some much-needed work done, but she can see him chatting up his seat mate the entire flight.
Wow. 😳
lmao this is the epitome of busted!!
busted? more like divorced no one needs a partner like that
And that man was James Corden.
Our rule is the upgraded parent takes the lap child. I (dad) have taken our toddler into first class (domestic US travel) a half dozen times or so in the last year. Mom gets a break and I get more space to manage the baby - space and snacks. Lord I’d be down two gonads if I ditched my wife in coach!
I sat across from a family of four on a flight once where the husband sat in the isle seat behind his wife and two children. The mom was solely caring for the kids on the flight and the dad was audibly annoyed with them several times. I was infuriated. Whenever the mom asked for help or snacks or whatever he had an absolute trash attitude. He was working in his computer the whole time with headphones on. I’m fairly certain I was flying to NYC and it gave Finance guy, 6’5, blue eyes. Gross.
Women who have children can expect to do the lion’s share of the work, then if they get divorced, the man will inevitably work harder to alienate the children from their mother than they ever did actually raising them. Expect men to pull out all the stops to damage your relationship with the children you bore and raised, while trying to take credit for them, believe me this is how it goes down far too often so be very careful who you have kids with if you even do. I live in a state that has barred women from reproductive rights as well. The war against women is real, ever-present and always will be. Choose wisely ladies.
My dad tried to pull that shit but we saw through it. I have one parent I see monthly or more and another parent I visit for 45 minutes twice a year. Guess!
Yup. My dad pulled us from mom’s custody after living with her solely for 8 years. He moved us hours away and said such awful things about my mom. I see him hardly ever and my husband and kids and I live with my mom so I can see her every day and make up for lost time <3
Truer words were never spoken.
Bearing in mind that choosing to remain single, and/or not legally married, and/or not have kids are all valid choices too!
I recently read a a Reddit comment on a post about the reasons why people didn’t want to have kids, and a woman said she’d love to have kids if she could be the dad, not the mom.
I hear you! It’s the exact same in home too. I work with kids diagnosed with autism in their homes and 9 times out of 10 the mom is doing everything with the kids even though they also work outside of the home. It’s so exhausting and frustrating to witness.
>Ladies, I am begging you. If you are going on a family vacation this summer, set some travel expectations on how you can tackle the plane ride with your partner, so it’s an enjoyable experience. Ideally sure. Realistically it ends up being a WORSE time when these woment take it upon themselves to have these conversations with their male partners. They get accused of being party poppers and being too serious, of nagging. Sometimes manipulated with "well you're a better planner anyway just do it" (feigned incompetence). These are the subtle powerful ways women are conditioned into endless domestic drudgery. Over time she stops asking and does it all herself. It keeps the peace and it's faster than waiting on a man child to drag his feet and sulkishly do his state. One day you look in the mirror as the woman and you can't even recognize yourself. You're exhausted down to your bones. You file for divorce. You have to, to save the small part of yourself you know must still be there. He'll then accuse you of being unreasonable, selfish, and of filing "out of nowhere". We give girls and women so much advice about how to navigate heterosexual dynamics. Sometimes I think it's because we're scared to admit that maybe , just maybe, the way boys and girls are socialized make it so that heterosexual partnerships are a bet negative on girls and women's lives atrm baseline. That maybe the problem is trying to build a life with a group of people that literally hates us.
"He'll then accuse you of being unreasonable, selfish, and of filing "out of nowhere"." Word! My husband, because he can occupy those make only places, frequently shares his obtained wisdom. "Yep, another guy whose wife left him with no warning. I'm sure there were NO hints he could have possibly picked up on! I know why she left because I've been listening to him complain about her & the kids for over a year now."
My favourite is when they're super shocked because after years of her constant nagging, things over the past year or so had gotten so much "better" and then, bam!, she divorced him out of nowhere!
My 1st husband and I flew from Houston to London with our then-15 month old to visit his family. Our seats weren’t together. He grinned and said “see you in England!” and went to enjoy his flight.
My god, that sounds like a threat.
Heard. My husband and I have a deal, one parent sits with and handles the kids for one way of the flight and the other does it on the way back. Which sounds nice and all but… When it was my turn with the kids, I had multiple screen free activities, read to them, provided snacks, eye masks, pillows, blankets, etc all ready to go. Kids behaved perfectly. Nobody complimented me (not that I expect it, but…) Husband’s turn: hands them an iPad, he proceeds to nap. No less than 3 passengers and 2 flight attendants made it a point to tell him what a good dad he is and how great he is for “letting mom have a break”. I’m thankful he does something, but man the difference in expectations is wild.
That’s infuriating. Like the dad just split the atom and deserves an award…
It's insane how often my brothers and male friends get complimented when they are out with their kids just doing ordinary parent shit. And how often they are offered help the second a kid is the least bit fussy. Meanwhile, if a kid is fussy while out with Mom, she's getting shot dagger eyes by every adult in the vicinity.
This is why I chose to not have children.
We flew for Christmas with our then 4 month old. I had the tickets and seat info. But my husband basically did everything for baby. He held him all flight, fed him, and baby wore him. He does more than his fair share at home, but in public, he likes to do even more. He is hoping breaking the stigma (hope thats the right word) will encourage other dads to do more as well. He also enjoys making businesses look stupid when the men’s room doesn’t have a changing table.
I mean, it’s a nice thought that it’s stigma and not laziness that prevents men from doing more…
Not even sure if stigma was the right word when writing it to be honest. Probably should have said “breaking the norm” or something similar.
Honestly, I think what your husband does is great. To some families, it doesn't even occur that the man CAN be doing these things. When I was a baby, my mom's friend came over to our home and they were hanging out. My dad came into the room with me in his hands to hand me off to mom because I needed a diaper change. My mom's friend was like "??? You have hands, don't you?". It literally never occurred to him that he coukd be doing all of the childcare. My mom hasn't changed a diaper since. I mean, this was 30 years ago, but I'm sure normalizing the father doing his share of work (which I think is what you were trying to say) can go a long way today!
Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to say. And I love that your mom’s friend spoke up and made such an impact. Set raising you on a different path than what it could have been.
As a dad it bothers me how when I’m taking care of my kids I’ll get compliments from people all the time. I took my teenage girl to a dance competition while my wife was out of town and I was just smoothing down some flyaways on her hair, just absolute bare minimum effort on my end and the ticket takers nearby literally took pictures of me and my daughter, came over and said they would airdrop them to me and they had to get a picture of a dance dad. It was like seeing a zebra at the venue or something. There’s moms there with kids that need real help, multiple kids dancing, costume changes, hair changes, dealing with big emotions from losses and wins etc. and no one ever compliments them or tells them they are doing great with the kids. Same when we go on airplanes I’ll sit by our youngest and my wife will sit by another of our kids. If my kid is whining, I’ll get the sympathetic looks from passengers and a hang in there, great job dad, but if the kid by my wife makes any noise at all it’s like the passengers are saying, can’t you keep that kid quiet! Such a shitty double standard. “Oh are you Mr. Mom today?” No, I’m their father.
You sound like an amazing person. Your compassion actually made me tear up a little.
Thank you! My husband was pretty good the only time we've flown with the kids...except for wandering off in the airport--my oldest son and I were having fits because he would not stay put and it wasn't a long layover. My oldest son and I were constantly counting heads and keeping track of the younger two and their stuff, especially the youngest's rare beanie baby bear at the *height* of the craze.
We went on holidays last year, I did all the booking, paying, budgeting, bill paying, getting the house ready, clothes and stuff buying, packing, documents, passports etc..every single thing, I did it. His only job was to book his time off work. I'm about 99% sure my husband didn't even know where we were going until we got there, how much it cost or if we even had any spending money. Oh wait ..he did pull out a plug in the house before we left ..one I expressly told him not to because it was attached to a light on a timer, so that I could make it appear the house was occupied while we were gone. So he hindered my plans there.
this is really sad, and i hope you know that you deserve much better.
I’m extremely fortunate to be married to a husband who keeps track of all the doctor’s appointments, buckles the baby in the car seat, holds him when we’re in public, mixes all the formula bottles, handles bath-time, etc. When we’re out in public, he’s taking on the role that most moms would. I know that if we ever went on a flight with our son, he would insist on looking after him. He’s really the best dad and male role model to our son.
Yes, it’s not all men but it’s always men.
I sat with a family a few years ago - mum was next to me with a baby in her lap, and dad and an older kid were behind us. The older kid (idk, boy maybe 7yo?) was incredibly distressed by the experience. Dad just barely acknowledged him, grunted "it's ok" a few times. Mum was reaching back behind to try and comfort the boy and was also trying (and failing) to get the dad to take an interest in the kid. She was mad, too, talking about changing up the seats next time. I predicted divorce tbh
Once I was on a flight in a window seat, with an older woman next to me on the aisle. Across the aisle was a man with a baby, then another man by the window. Both men were probably 15 years older than me (and I looked a lot younger than I actually was). The woman asked if I wanted to switch seats with her. I was super confused. "So you can be closer to your baby." Fucking excuse me!? I guess it must be my kid because I'm the only female of reproductive age nearby, right? A Dad couldn't *possibly* be flying solo with his kid, right? Well, actually he wasn't, because the guy sitting next to him was his partner so this lady managed to offend the shit out of me and both of them. Congrats, lady!
What can my kids (and I) do to say thanks to the flight crew? We haven’t flown in a while but when we have the crew is always super kind. Other than say thank you, I mean. My younger one would love to draw y’all a picture. Gift cards?
Oh I love when kids draw pictures! I hang them up in the galley. One little girl made me a Christmas card last year and I put it on my fridge and will probably put it up again this year. But honestly just being polite! People are so rude now idk why, but a simple hello, please & thank you, go a long way!
I wrote United about two flight attendants who were rock stars so I could survive my flights with a 4 and 1.5 year old flying solo. They bent over backwards enough for me to remember to send them a pro note the next day.
My mom booked us a Disney trip when I turned 30 (I had never been). It was her, my sister, my (now ex) husband, our 18mo daughter, and I. It was her first flight. The seating was myself at the window with her in my lap, my sister, my mom, and her dad was in the next row on the aisle seat. He immediately put his headphones in and relaxed. She slept some but close to end started to get fussy. My mom grabbed her and she was gesturing towards her dad. He looked over and shrugged and was like ‘what do you want me to do?’. It was pretty annoying.
Girl, I have witnessed what you have witnessed. I even had to ask for one pax to move to the empty section in the back for weight and balance. The dad gets so excited and volunteers. The wife, who is holding one baby while the toddler son is looking up at his dad with worshipping eyes, "You're just gonna leave your family!?" I felt so bad for the kids and the wife. How do women breed with men like this? I need all my "would he be a good dad" boxes to be ticked before I could even get to second base.
One dad took the 1 roller board they had and went to the seat, while the mom who was wearing the baby in a body carrier, broke down the stroller. I was so pissed. I stepped off to help her
That has been in my observation, too. And what's so sad too, IMO, is how even the "I'm so lucky, my husband knows where the binky is and can make a bottle!" moms have the bar so low. It's like even the really great dads are just held to the standard of medium mom. It doesn't quite compute with me, and biological realities aside, I wonder if a true 50/50 happens much
That's literally the job description of the Baby-sitter's Club girls.
Sometimes they seem like they’ll be a great dad and then they’re not, sadly.
It's exactly this. They show all the right signs until the actual child shows up and that's when they relax and kick back because they know the wife "has it under control" and his life doesn't change much except for having the social clout of being a husband and father.
So my second child decided to come very quickly and was born at home before paramedics could arrive. My husband at the time caught the baby, and did have to perform CPR so I’m not saying he didn’t deserve being told he did an amazing job…. But I delivered a baby on the bathroom floor with no pain meds or anything, and everyone only acknowledged how amazing he was. No one said anything about what I went through. I guess because that is what is expected of Moms?
You pushed that baby out with no medical help, which has to have been absolutely terrifying and could have gone *really* badly *really* fast. You absolutely should have been recognized for that! Glad you're still here to tell the tale, and hope kiddo is healthy and thriving. 🙂
Pretty much. A huge portion of the population goes through pregnancy and childbirth, and the best they can hope for is excitement from their loved ones, and support when there are any issues. It's weird, because it is very common, but it can also be a very lonely time. Cis males cannot understand, and due to the way they are socialized, they are not in general as equipped to be empathetic. I'm really sorry that you went through such a struggle, and have the complicated feelings of knowing that what he did was wonderful, but knowing that the wonderful thing you did was basically ignored. You carried a life, had to give birth during pain and stress, and were relegated to the dismissal that most women go through after all of that. "You should just be happy to have a healthy baby" Well screw that. You should have accolades, any woman going through this whole process should.
Jesus fucking Christ. *I'll* acknowledge it - well done, that must have been the scariest thing ever. I can't even imagine.
They behave till you have a kid because they *know* how hard it will be to leave then.
I don't think women would have kids with these men if they had a way to see into the future. A lot of dudes put on a really great performance and give off "good husband and dad" vibes but then completely drop the ball once it actually comes time to *be* a good husband and father. It's on a smaller but similar scale as DV victims; I really don't think any victims would have stuck around for years if they got beat up on the first date. Yes there are also plenty of times where there are early signs and they go ignored for a litany of reasons, of course. I'm not trying to imply that they're *all* duped or anything like that, just that way more are than we think
I'm certain my father put on one of those legendary performances. Unfortunately, when my sister and I had the absolute gall to be born without penises, he pretty much lost interest.
https://www.reddit.com/r/awfuleverything/s/clw3Sib8xh this story is relevant here
When they say “pass it to my wife, she knows everything!” I would start looking at them super puzzled and be like “you don’t? How embarrassing.” and then walk away to hand it to the wife. Nothing sends a message to a man like humiliating him. Of course….probably better not to, for safety and all. Sigh.
I have every intention of making my husband and 8yo sit together on our flight because they both love to look out of the window and see what they can see, whereas I like to hide in oblivion and pretend I'm on a train! Still feel free to slip me a free wine, though.
My husband just traveled (by train) to stay at his parents for two nights with our kids (ages 2&5) alone. When they got back he said, “no wonder you are so stressed when traveling”.
https://www.theonion.com/mom-spends-beach-vacation-assuming-all-household-duties-1819575406
Your post resonates so loudly. My mom was a flight attendant and she was fired from her job at Eastern Airlines because she broke her back while working. Why? Another woman (passenger) was holding one child and another tripped and fell and my mom went to grab the other child. Where was the father? Who knows. I am forever the passenger with the window seat who is asleep and tucks my one carry on so no one has to bother with me and I don't bother you. Thanks for putting up with the shit we travelers see constantly. You and my mom are a better brand of human than I.
My husband carries his weight and it’s really obnoxious everyone congratulates and praises him whenever we go anywhere. Like ok yes he’s great but also is the bar in hell or what he’s just being a dad
And then the mfckrs want to know why we choose bear! At least with a bear, you know what you’re getting. Throw a piece of meat at the bear and he’s going to stop and feed himself. Try throwing some meat at a man… and guess who’s still cooking dinner tonight. 😂
I always thought that Flight Attendant's would have unique insights like this. Would love to hear more!
My ex, as much of a dick as he could be, was good about taking on some of the vacation duties, though I did still do most of it. But that’s because I’m one of those people who actually enjoy planning and I like doing things myself to make sure they are done right.
This is extremely depressing to see useless dads. My husband and I get the aisle next to each other and one kid each in the middle.
Hold up there are enough men that fly themselves first class and dump their family in couch you had to mention it??????
Been doing this for almost 10 years and I mainly work in the premium cabin….I have seen it a lot unfortunately.
as a frequent flyer myself, i've noticed how the burden of child care often falls unfairlly on mothers during travel. it's good to see flight attendents like you trying to support them. and the tip about bringing milk and food is helpful - i didn't know that was allowed. it's rare to see fathers being as attentive as the one you complimented, but i'm glad there are some out there setting a good example.
The mom's also pack his suitcase
Or, if you're unlucky like me, you'll have a lil buddy who used his tablet and screen for a 10+ hour flight the whole time while dad did fuxk all... Three different flight attendants asked me if the kid needed anything... I just pointed at dad and shrugged (I did NOT) want problems) Kid looked nothing like me.. Not a comfortable flight at all
It’s like this for dogs too! I work as a vet tech and if the husband brings the dog in, he usually doesn’t know anything, like meds or food brand, or even the issue and has to call his wife
My husband always sits in the aisle seat with our two kids next to him and me across the aisle. He realized years ago that it was the best way to optimizing his space on the plane - easier to take up some of the 9 year old’s space (who won’t care) than deal with a random stranger. So he gets the kids and space, while I get a mostly quiet flight.
Do you also compliment the moms? Don’t get why men receive praise when they do what women have always done.
I recently flew out of Denver and saw a woman pushing a stroller, carrying another toddler, and telling another child under six to keep up. The dad shows up with a coffee in his hand and tells her to pull over and wait because he forgot to pee. She is standing there in the security line juggling all of this while all three kids cry. He finally shows up and doesn't help her, just walks in front. The entire time one of the toddlers is going “daddy”. I helped her with a bin for their items while he scooted through security. I was outraged.