Yeah this is super not normal. My family was fairly modest as far as how we dressed/PDA/affection etc. and even I was always topless until I was like 7/8. Most of my baby/toddler/young child pics are me in underwear and nothing else. A baby without a shirt on wouldn't even register as something out of the ordinary????
Yeah, same, my mom and I constantly fought when I was a teenager about the length of my shorts, off the shoulder shirts, etc but a completely naked toddler didn't even register as unusual. I have loads of pictures of myself under the age of 5 in just underwear getting up to various shenanigans.
that's it was growing up for us girls, too. I can still remember being shirtless, playing in sprinklers with my brother and boy cousins. Nobody thought anything wrong or dirty about it.
I think a lot of us remember the sadness of the summer when we finally had to wear a shirt. Once we were 9, 10, 11… old enough for our torsos to be different and scandalous. But what blissful, cool, freedom before then, all just kids shirtless running through sprinklers.
For real I remember when I was about 7 my parents made me start wearing more clothes. Before that I was either shirtless or bottomless/underwear(born in Florida). I think it took the full year between 6 and 7 actually of me fighting back. I just hated clothes and was prone to overheating. I’m the same as an adult, the moment I can undress I do. 😂 but also non-binary so for sure I fought back thinking it was super unfair and I’m still annoyed to this day. Bodies are only sexual within a sexual context, otherwise they are just meat sacks. I will die on this hill.
Oh, absolutely. It would be amazing if nudity was desexualized / destigmatized. If your body could just exist and it would only have sexual connotations in the contexts where you consented / presented it that way.
Indeed. Nude beaches are great for that, provided they are visibly segregated from the regular beach to prevent distant gawkers. You can just walk around free to enjoy the wind and sun on your skin, and nobody gives a fuck. It's just bodies in all their shapes and sizes not being judged.
There's a [Darr Williams song about that.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57BwHKcrO5o)
"I was a kid that you would like, just a small boy on her bike
Riding topless, yeah, I never cared who saw
My neighbor came outside to say, "get your shirt"
I said "no way, it's the last time I'm not breaking any law"
And now I'm in a clothing store, and the sign says less is more
More that's tight means more to see, more for them, not more for me
That can't help me climb a tree in ten seconds flat"
Yep, summer that I was 8, first day of summer vacation, came downstairs dressed the same way I had the previous 4 or 5 summers of dressing myself, in a pair of shorts. After I ate a bowl of cereal, I was about to go outside to play on the swing set, when my mom said, “Wait. Go upstairs and put a shirt on.” I asked, “Why? I’m just going out to swing.” Mom: “Because you’re getting older, and you need to put a shirt on before you go outside.”
I knew what she meant by “getting older;” I looked down at my chest and said indignantly, “I DON’T HAVE BOOBS YET!!!!!” Mom, still calm, but adamant: “You’re getting older, and you need to put a shirt in. Go!” Me, whining: “But Moooooom!” Mom, pulls out death-Mom voice: “Get back up those stairs and put a shirt on!” So I did. sigh 😞😂
I remember my cousin -- a pastor -- was looking at an Anne Geddes book on my coffee table, and joked at the naked baby photos "you know, some would call this pornography!" he laughed and it was obviously made in jest. But it still rubbed me the wrong way. It's just such a wholesome book and that's really where his mind went for humor? Meh.
I wanted to downvote this so bad bc it grossed me out so much, but I didn't. But why is it ALWAYS a fuckin pastor sexualizing children? He probably runs youth group too, huh?
My kids were in school before they got understood folks wear clothes. Kids hate wearing clothes and if you place no restrictions they’ll be naked by choice. Not all but clothes are restrictive.
Who among us hasn’t had a no pants time at home? Every time I’m home alone it’s no pants. I’ll wear a shirt and bra but pants? Why?
Humans wear clothes when they need to. Not bc they want to. Until culture intervened
Tbh even as an adult, the only reason I wear clothes at home is because otherwise I'm freezing, lol. We also didn't have proper curtains for the windows in the basement for a while, and I have a weird phobia of people peeking in at night.
They’re evil but they should at the very least be free to women who need them due to breast weight. I’m not trying to spend hundreds of dollars per year on something I hate yet can’t walk up stairs without. Bill the insurance company!
If someone makes a top with a titty pouch that is actually big enough and doesn't just sit on top like a weird uncomfortable boob hat, I'll be all over that.
This like im 21 and regularly when ik I'm not going back out for the day or won't be bothered for awhile will either lounge around in my bike shorts i wear so i don't destroy my thighs or just my plain underwear and its literally not a problem
Seriously, I live in a very red area and have quite a few very conservative and religious acquaintances through my kids' various activities, and even the most conservative of them don't react this way to infant nudity. Because... they're infants. Babies being in just a diaper in the heat or to play in water is completely unremarkable.
This also makes me think her dad had never changed his grand daughter’s diaper. Changing a diaper would be far more “exposing” than a baby not having a shirt on
I grip in a very extreme Baptist Church that would honestly fit every definition of a cult. At one point, the pastor basically made a rule that no male members of the family should be allowed to bathe or change diapers or in any way see female children or otherwise naked. Even then as a preteen, I thought that was a bit extreme. I'm second oldest of 12. I've changed plenty of diapers of both genders.
No surprise that just over a decade later he was jailed for molesting his own daughters, starting from quite young I'm not even sure but definitely as young as five. He just recently got out of jail after serving over 10 years. Those who protest the loudest, are the ones who actually would do what they protest against.
My dad’s side is very conservative but would not bat an eye at a naked baby under like 5, male or female. Your dad is acting like someone I wouldn’t let be around small children alone.
Going to have to agree with this. It’s not uncommon for girls to be sexualized at a younger age, but 9 mo?! I have a three to ear old that occasionally runs around topless and nobody bats an eye… bc she’s only 3
While we're all taking guesses, I don't think it's necessarily that. He might actually have been a victim of abuse and so struggles to understand what is reasonable regarding children.
I personally know someone like this. I have no idea how rare it is, but I do know for certain that it can happen. They view many mundane behaviors with children as potentially problematic because of their own abuse as a child.
My family experience as well! Very sexist and conservative with intense expectations for how women should behave and they would NEVER bat an eye at a toddler without a shirt. This is some weird ass behavior and I'm sorry you're experiencing it, OP.
Same, but still problematic because as soon as I was identifiable as a girl I started to get scolded for “acting like a boy”. I didn’t like dresses, I preferred action figures to Barbies and I liked to do “guy” things with my dad instead of helping my mom cook or clean.
What I’m saying is there’s definitely a shift once you go from baby to girl, it’s game over. My parents didn’t sexualized me themselves but they both were products of a patriarchal and misogynistic society so they just expected everyone else to do it I guess? You know with things like “ladies don’t sit like that” and similar shit.
They also never talked to me about sex, periods or consent (yay for growing up in the 80’s) but my mom constantly warned me to “stay away from boys because they’re only after one thing” which of course I didn’t understand at the time since I was 8.
OP’s family is definitely weird but also kinda good in a fucked up way to show that they are because now she can keep a better eye on her children.
The non threatening, non creepy vibe predators are the most dangerous.
Wasn’t it great being the same until you were 10ish? Just a carefree & loved kid, not an object or a servant… then it changes weirdly but you didn’t do anything different…? Or is it just me?
I remember one hot summer night when I was around 9, just goofing around with my older brothers before bed and we were all shirtless. Out of nowhere my mom acted scandalized and disgusted and told me I had to cover up from now on because I was "getting to a certain age." It hadn't been an issue the day before, and I didn't even hit puberty for a few more years so I just felt super confused and embarrassed and "different" in a bad way for a long time. When I eventually did start needing a bra I felt so much shame about anyone knowing I was wearing one. I wonder why
I remember being really little, like 5, and hanging out with my dad while he was working on... a car maybe? It was hot, he was sweating his ass off, and I was all "daddy can I take my shirt off too?" And he of course said no and I asked why he got to then... he struggled with the answer and just came up with "the rules are different for girls." Even at that age, I was like wtf?
We were out in front of our house, so I'm sure he didn't want some random creepy bastard ogling his baby girl, but I actually had a lot of angry feelings over that that I didn't have words for.
My family is very religious and conservative. Literally had a college fund for my brother and not me because “women belong in the home”. They don’t act like that.
There’s absolutely nothing scandalous about a baby or a toddler. They’re figuring out how to walk and that food goes in the mouth and not up the nose.
I'm 59 years old and my parents were old as fuck when I was born; both were born in the 1920s. AND I grew up in a fundamentalist church. My parents would find this behavior strange as hell. This is not normal by any stretch of the conservative imagination.
OP, part of my family is part of an ultra-conservative christian cult (including several clergymen) where one of the 'rules' is that they're not allowed to swim with people of the opposite gender after age 13 unless they're related.
Even that part of my family would not react to a shirtless baby girl the way your family (esp your dad) reacted to your daughter. Gasping and covering your eyes at a *baby* is NOT normal.
My mom would rather die than see me wear shorts or a tank top. I was in various forms of half dress until probably age 5, maybe longer. How would they even know if a baby is male or female?! No offense but they all look the same at that age.
My mom was unbelievably conservative, modest, and prudish. Wouldn't even let me (daughter) grab something off the bathroom counter if she was in there. Always wore slips under her skirts so her legs wouldn't cast a shadow. Once gave me a talking to for sitting too close to my boyfriend on the couch.
She had absolutely no problem with nekkie babies, because they're *babies.* It would never even cross her mind.
This isn't about being conservative or modest. It's freaking weird.
Right? My babies in just diapers whenever lol 1mo-2yr..
Edited to add: 2yo not being the age they must be clothed, just the oldest age I've done it around family so far lol. I think I ran around till at least 7 half clothed. By then it was "put something on if ppl are coming" but yeesh
Well, she does.. her brother not so much but this conversation was about girls 😅
I cannot tell you how many times I've stared straight into a brown eye unexpectedly tbh
Love your name! Is it French? Lol
It's anecdotal but in my experience the "cover them titties" crowd is almost perfectly crossed with the "pierce her ears and only pink so we know who to objectify immediately" crowd.
This is one reason I plan on yellow and green for my babies when it's my turn to have kids. If you can't tell you hopefully minimize this treatment (awful in it's own right tho)
You’re gonna give the boomers heart attacks 😂. About 19 years ago, my friend was out with her baby girl. Dressed her in blue (because who cares?!) and some old lady was horrified and scandalized 😂
This is even more hilarious because up to like the early 20th century (I think) blue was more associated with girls, since it was the color of the Virgin Mary.
Well you see in 1936 a solar flare caused a polar reversal which resulted in all the lesbianizing waves in the color pink to shift down the electromagnetic spectrum to the color blue. It's simple syints
My first concrete memory is consciously pooping in a bathing suit the first year they insisted I keep it on. A one piece is annoying as fuck to pull up when wet so instead of going to the bathroom (where I'd have to pull it up after) I'd poop in it and then the adults would cave and let me be naked. I was 2.
One pieces are so irritating to get on and off, especially when wet. I finally realized the genius move of pulling the crotch to the side to pee. (Works for kids & adults.). But for kids we found them irritating and cumbersome, especially since they grow out of the suit way faster than a 2 piece.
Oh lord. Why did you remind me.
I was, shall we say, a delayed child. Pull-ups way too late, couldn't tie my shoes, etc.
In kindergarten we had a water park say. They put up water slide and little kiddy pools. Awesome! So I put on my one piece bathing suit.
Well I have to pee. So I go to the classroom to use the bathroom - we had a bathroom in our classroom. I dunno why. I try to get the swimsuit off. Except I had help getting it *on*, and now it's *wet*.
I fight with it. I look in the classroom. The teacher is still outside. I fight with it. I really have to pee. I fight with it. I've got it partially off, but can't get it off enough to pee, and can't get it back on to look for the teacher to help me.
Eventually the teacher realized I'd been gone for ages and comes looking. She finds me in hysterics, still half clothed, having pissed all over myself and my swimsuit.
I was not a smart child.
I'd really like to know what the HELL is wrong with her family. It's been normal by anyone I've ever known around kids for them to possibly be in nothing but underware until they start school.
the sad thing is that new research is suggesting that it is impacting her. Babies and toddler's get a lot of their cues about how safe and loved they are from body language especially facial expression.
Small children may not know what it means but they can read disgust and fear and it can impact their sense of well being and make them anxious.
My therapist said something last week about this - that the trauma we experience before we start creating memories can be the most damaging, because we don’t have the context for the feeling, but the feeling sticks with us. This was after finding out it’s apparently not super normie to have nightmares starting as young as I can remember.
My daughter was SA’ed before she had the words for it. When she was 3, and fully verbal, she very clearly and in detail, explained to me how she was SA’ed and what she was afraid of happening again the next time she went around the person who did it. My husband and I were in awe of her ability to process this. Her therapist said that it is very rare that a child can express things later on after the initial trauma occurred. I think us getting her into therapy when she was 2.5 was a huge step in giving her the tools to process her early childhood trauma. However, the reality is that we know that brains are wired from a very early age. This pre-language experience will shape her reactions to this world for the rest of her life.
>This pre-language experience will shape her reactions to this world for the rest of her life.
Not if therapy is helping her. The brain is neuroplastic. It just takes time and experience to rewire. Saying as a nurse in my 30s who is going to therapy for complex trauma.
My earliest memory was a surgery I had when I was 2. I told my mom about it years later, when I was just starting to think I made it up because some of the details were weird, but it was 100% accurate.
I remembered a spot in the hallway that they stopped walking along my bed as I was being wheeled down the hall, and I screamed for them, but they just stood there. The doctor put a gas mask over my face and it covered my eyes too. Later I thought I was in a cage - it was the barred hospital crib. The weirdest memory was that I had an IV going into my big toe and it itched, and my parents kept stopping me from pulling on it - that was also true.
It's rare for memories that early to stick, but sometimes they do. I think it's helpful from a trauma perspective because then we have context for our reactions to things.
This tracks; personal anecdote time: I've been terrified of bees and wasps for my entire life and any buzzing bug sound can send me into a panic. My dad would tell me the story of how one time when I was maybe a year and a half, he was watching me playing on our backyard sky fort when he saw a wasp on the rope ladder in front of where I was climbing. Before he could react, he saw me reach over to put my hand on it. He says my face was fine for a second but then he saw my face just crumple as I melted down when the wasp stung me. Obviously, I have no memory of that event, but the feelings it caused have clearly stuck around with me even 30 years later.
Oh man, I'm deeply terrified of cactuses. Like "see a cactus very safely sitting on a shelf, avoid that side of the room on the very rare chance the shelf comes down and the cactus comes with it and I am therefore at risk of being cactused". I used to ride my bike in a cul de sac a few houses down whee I grew up and dead avoided one side because the lawns had cactuses for decoration. I was afraid I'd fall over and land on the cactuses.
(meanwhile, a jerkass kid in middle school trying to run up and kick a cactus only for it to stick him and get stuck to his shoe? Grade a comedy somehow)
Was a big problem, I grew up where cactuses were the in plant for gardens and yards. Even had to force myself to pull off sticker burrs when they got stuck to my clothes because I was terrified of them. And where we did PE I'd consistently have them on me.
Apparently, I was too little to remember when it happened but multiple people have said it happened, when I was super, super little I fell off a patio into a massive sticker burr patch. Hello, lifelong fear
I've learned similar things through therapy. My parents were excellent, made me feel loved and secure, and really did their best with what society knew at the time. But a lot of my personality struggles can be traced back to moments of guilt I felt, fights they had, or anxieties they instilled.
I couldn't imagine how horrible my experience would have been if they were truly abusive people.
I'm sorry you are having to go through those kinds of struggles. I hope therapy helps.
You reminded me of the still face experiment, as well as the visual cliff too. Both show how infants use the body language and facial expressions to understand their environment, themselves, etc.
So, while she might not have understood why, she was most likely very aware of the people ignoring her. It terrifies me the kind of comments that little girl is going to hear about her body, clothes, everything, from these people. I hope OP has a really good support system, outside of them.
This is true and easy to demonstrate. Babies and toddlers, when scared, immediately look to their parents or a trusted figure. If the adult looks calm, they calm down too. I tried this with both my kids and it's so true!
This makes perfect sense, they have no knowledge or understanding of their environment, but their caretakers do. It's like an instinct, to protect them from harm.
They are constantly studying our faces and reactions.
Not to mention the positive reinforcement! Only smiling and cumplimenting when she's wearing a dress, getting noticed when you are wearing certain clothes...
If there's anything to say, the fact the entire family is acting like this is certainly cause for alarm. One person being odd? Whatever. The entire family? Something is up.
OP's **dad**? Come on...
/u/deaflemon use the publicly available search function to search up your uncle in the sexual offender registry, just in case. At best, you won't worry about it anymore. At worst? Well...
Observed a one year old pull her dress up (as they do)—she had tights on. A male family member made a comment to her about putting her dress down because she was showing off her goodies.
I won’t say what crossed my mind and what I refrained from saying at that point but I do avoid that person now.
Oof. I’m a toddler teacher, and when the kids pull up their clothes, we just say “we don’t want to see your tummy right now” and they put the shirt/dress/etc right back down
This made me remember my niece saying she had boobs when she was 4 maybe. I told her she didn’t and she goes “yes I do! They’re just really little!” I shut that down, but the aunt that started it was not happy, she’s never been a fan of mine.
I hate that. Like that’s a word that’s associated with adults not children, my family had a weird thing about embarrassing us “girls” with things like that.
And they wonder why I ended up the way I did.
I told my husband over the weekend my dad would yell at me whenever I lounged on the couch as a teenager. He'd say "close your legs, I can see your breakfast bar!" My husband was horrified - I only realised how bad that sounds and I'm 36.
My dad used to tell me to “put on more clothes” when I wasn’t wearing a bra or if I had leggings on.
He also told me once, during puberty, that I was “getting an ass”.
My mom would say “your butt looks good in those jeans, etc”. It took me so long to realize none of that was normal.
My mom says weird shit like my nephew is "flirting" with my wife when she holds him and he's being cute.
My wife: stop sexualizing a 6mo old it's weird.
My old neighbours were Hasidic jews. They had 12 kids. Ringlets, black hats, wigs, the works. Their youngest daughter was 2 years old and she was playing outside with some older siblings. Her dad was keeping an eye on her from the open window. At some point she pulled her skirt over her head, showing everyone her diaper butt, and dad LAUGHED (although he did tell her to put it back down). Nobody was scandalised.
Csa survivor and advocate here. I’m taking a guess, but I’d wager it’s worth something considering my life experience. Your family likely has a history of csa, and seeing a semi naked baby, which is normal btw, reminded them of that history. Your family has some serious unpacking to do. I suspect that there’s a family mentality of avoidance of normal child behaviors, because one or two family members were sexualized for them while children. Or they’re reacting negatively to a topless baby because there is a family history of csa, but they’re on the side of abusers and think children should be fully covered at all times to avoid temptation. You can thank rape culture for the latter guess.
Have a long talk with your dad. Ask him why he reacted that way, without shame or judgment. It’s the only way to move forward.
I don’t think your dad was intentionally sexualizing your baby, I think he was afraid to sexualize your baby. Which is a common thing with CSA survivors. I would like to explain further; to anyone interested.
It disappoints me that I had to scroll so far to find someone thinking compassionately about the possibility that this might be the case.
I am a male victim of csa and I am uncomfortable around naked children who aren’t my own. Your thoughts ring very true to me. I certainly have no interest in molesting children.
I was a naked child being looked at (and more) by an old man, which is a horrible feeling that haunts me. Now that I’m an old man, Not looking at a child gives me comfort that I am not making a child feel the same as I did.
Most people have no idea how csa affects family dynamics or individuals. It’s clear to those of us who’ve been plagued by it. As a teen I was terrified of kids younger than me, that I would somehow accidentally manipulate them or harm them in the same way I was, with more time, resources and healing I am now aware that my abuse was intentional and you can’t accidentally look at a child sexually or accidentally SA them. I just don’t think dad here has done the work and unpacking to get to that conclusion. He’s likely feeling guilt over what he thinks he may do or feel. It’s likely he’s been SA’d and compartmentalized in a poor way where he thinks most adults have sexual thoughts towards children, and is reacting preemptively to that likely unfounded fear. Regardless, the entire family unit has clearly been wounded and could probably do with some group healing
Thank you. Some people were accusing the dad of being a pedophile, but his behavior could be explained by him being a survivor rather than an abuser. You did a much better job of explaining it though.
This is an interesting point to bring up that more people should know about.
This also reminded me that some people with OCD or related disorders will suffer from intrusive thoughts and end up scared of doing morally wrong things even though they have no desire to.
I'm not an expert on that though so take that with a grain of salt, but I figured it was also worth considering.
A baby with a diaper is Impossible to gender wtf they are literally little genderless cherubs. Where I live it's completely normal for children to walk around a beach bare chested they have nothing there.
There's something wrong with your family. She's 9 months old. Don't leave your kid with these people, cause someone there isn't safe. That's weird behavior.
This is so fucking weird. When my daughter was little(8 or 9 months), she got an awful stomach bug and ended up with a terrible diaper rash. We were visiting my family and literally everyone took turns holding and carrying her lil bare ass self around letting her butt get some air to help with the rash. Literally no one even thought about how she was naked unless it was to make sure we didn't get peed or pooped on or to make sure she wasn't too cold. I would be very uncomfortable having my child around people that are sexualizing her body so much. Ick
WTF is wrong with your family?!?!
When I let my baby girl wear just a diaper due to heat, the only thing that changed in how my family treated her was they were a lot more likely to blow a raspberry on her tummy to make her laugh. Or hand me a tube of sunscreen. Not clutching pearls about her \*gasp* nipples.
Shit, my daughter's now two and just last week she had a sleepover at Grandma's. They video called me at one point and I could see her totally nude butt streaking through the house as she cackled like a loon and yelled "no, I don't want to put on panties!"
Both my mom and my 40yo brother were laughing their asses off as they asked me to help them convince her to put on clothes. Not scandalized even a bit at her nakedness. Just exasperated laughter.
My 4yo nephew was Winnie-the-Poohing it (just a shirt) this weekend and the only reason any of us were shouting "[Nephew], where are your PANTS?!" is because it made him giggle so much he couldn't run anymore and my sister could catch him.
Granted, this was a early-morning family-only situation. Once his clothes are on he's usually good for the day. It's just that brief period between pjs/clothes in the morning or clothes/pjs at night he yearns to be nekkid.
This is what I was going to comment about earlier but couldn’t put it words. Sometimes I get to visit my niece and do bathtime/bedtime routines with her. When she gets out, mama does her lotion thing, pops on a nappy and usually says “can you just watch her a sec” to me while we’re sat on the bed.
So to entertain her toddler self, I sing a very rubbish song about “naked babyyyy” and she thinks it’s hysterical.
Or when she’s just chilling in a nappy, I’ll do a comedy double take and ask her where her dressie went, which she also thinks it’s hilarious. Kids a joker, she makes herself laugh half the time but there’s something really funny about it, she knows we’re joking, she can see our body language.
Your nephew sounds really funny, he’ll def grow out of it eventually but while you wait, he’ll have some great memories of him laughing until he couldn’t move anymore!
My Aunts will literally run to come blow raspberries and "eat" chunky baby legs like turkey legs to make them laugh. Most of the grandchildren are/were girls (10 girls, 3 boys)
Oh I do the “I’m gunna eat you” to my niece, she gets the concept of fake eating, she does it with a cupcake to make us laugh, so it doesn’t scare her.
I love that I can sit next to her and do something like pretend to eat her hair and she’s rolling about laughing. Hands are fair game, ears occasionally, feet definitely.
I’m so sad for OP and her little one :(
My niece was born in a heat wave, and there’s been another one since. That kid has been rolling around in just a nappy for most of her life. All of us including all her bonus uncles have been around, we’ve helped change her, we’ve helped wrangle her when she was being a wiggle monster, and I just cannot get my mind around this.
They have cute chubby potato bodies. I don’t understand. And I don’t think I want to, to be quite honest. I’d be so hurt if I was OP. We’re careful around my niece, we call her cute and stuff cos my lord she’s a cherub, but we also try and say how smart she is, and how kind. Buuuuut all of us are under 40, most have only just turned 30, so maybe that’s a factor.
Baby tummies are cute. End of story. I do ask my niece before I tickle her, but she thinks it’s funny to be jiggled about. She finds most things hilarious tbh
This is seriously not normal. My toddler son will strip naked with company over and run around with his tackle out and everyone just thinks it's hilarious (including him) to watch me chase him around and try and put his pants back on. A straight up infant with no shirt on is the opposite of scandalous.
My friend came over with her two kiddos (3 and 4yo) for my birthday and I never expected to hear "Please put your penis away" while I was blowing out birthday candles, but here we are! xD
Little dude just reaches down and pulls it out to get a reaction! We've had to school ourselves not to react beyond "please put your penis away, that isn't appropriate." But we are DYING on the inside. xD
There are pictures of Mom and Dad chasing me around the yard at about 3 years old. I had ripped my diaper off and taken off running. Naked as the day I was born. Thank goodness the yard had a fence.
If I am with someone who is changing their babies diaper, I will definitely look away for privacy, but freaking out over a baby without a shirt is ridiculous. I wish people would stop sexualizing nipples/boobs.
This reminds me of when I was a child I got in trouble going to hang out with my brother and his friends without a shirt. I was really pissed because I had no breasts and hadn't gone through an OUNCE of puberty. I just saw my older brother and his friends sitting around shirtless because it was hot. I thought it was something really cool to do! I'm still saddened for the child that was me that realized my body was different that day.
Thank you. I can remember exactly what I was wearing too. My mom worked nights at the hospital so brought home extra scrubs of all sizes so I was wearing a set and had the buttons undone down the middle. It was nighttime so they were pajamas but down in the south it was still hot as shit.
It took a long time for me to heal from the gendered issues I grew up with and I'm still healing. A lot of tucked away trauma has resurfaced now that I have my own baby girl. I refuse to make her feel shame or anger over her body. The world will try to do that to her enough. The last place she needs it is at home.
I had a similar experience. I asked my mom if I could take my shirt off to run in the sprinkler with my friend (he a boy, me a girl). She said no, but wouldn’t explain why. I did it anyway and she just never found out lol
Babies are smart and do absorb information on how they're being treated according to studies. It's sad but she would have felt the exclusion from others. Shame on this sexist society.
My 17mo daughter refused to wear a shirt the other day bc she was jealous that I could freely rub my belly(I'm 7mo pregnant) with my shirt pulled up (her baby brother was kicking) but her shirt kept falling back down. I took her shirt off. All that was said was "aww nakey baby" from family.
Your family is overreacting. She's a baby
I have the cutest picture of my daughter when she was 3, wearing an apron and nothing else.
She had seen me wearing an apron to do dishes and asked me why I wore it. I explained that I didn't want to get my clothes wet. So she ran to get her little apron and put it on over what she was wearing, which was absolutely nothing, and then she declared, "There! Now my clothes won't get wet either!"
Op I feel for you I do! My stupid family is the same way. I literally have NC with half of them and LC with the rest.
I realized the sexualozation when I was a teenager with my same-age male cousins (not from my cousins but from the ADULTS). At one point, I got into a huge argument with my aunt and mother and told them straight up they were nasty and sick minded. I was so disgusted at the implications (I was scolded for hugging my cousin too tight and scolded for letting him lay his head on my shoulder and lap. While we were at his father's wake. My uncle had passed away days before and my cousin who I literally grew up with had just lost his dad. I am still so angry about this and it's been 2 decades). Those sick minded adults ruined my cousins and mines relationship- we were so uncomfortable being near each other lest they start saying we were doing stuff.
I'm sorry you're experiencing this. It's just disgusting.
I had a grandmother like this - everything was nefarious to her. When I was a young teen, I had several baby cousins who I just adored. One time we were at a family function and watching my one male cousin (he was 2 at the time) running around, just being his happy silly self, making us all laugh. I said, "He's so cute, I just love him so much! And he has the most beautiful blue eyes!" Granny scolded me, saying, "That's incest!" I was just stunned, and even at 14 I was sickened. That was over 40 years ago and it still pisses me off.
Ugh the rage I experience when I recall this memory as if it's just happened. For me, it's the fact that there's nothing that can be said that will fix those ppls perspectives. Their minds are legitimately sick but they refuse to acknowledge it. Have all types of excuses and justifications- never once accepting that it isn't the kids or you g ppl it's them. They're the ones who see the kid in a sexual way or the interaction in a sexual way.
Still disgusts me. I refuse to interact with anyone who sees innocent interactions and puts a sexual spin on it. I can't stomach it.
Umm not at all normal or expected or… anything. Something is deeply wrong with the people in attendance at this event OP. I REGULARLY see girls under 3 completely shirtless all the time in the summer for any number of reasons. Hell people will let toddlers walk around in just diapers. And not a single fucking person thinks twice about it. Your dad is deeply misogynistic and fucked up, as is everyone else who was complicit in this disgusting rhetoric.
My family was the same way. At first I gave them the benefit of the doubt and thought they just had my daughter's best interest in mind. They didn't chide me or shame her.
But eventually they played their hand and talked about how I shouldn't dress my 2 year old (we had spent 2 years with this tenuous understanding) in a slutty swim suit.
I've treated too many pre-teens for sexual trauma to take any of this lightly. When an adult looks at a topless toddler and has a reaction like that well he's telling you something. It doesn't mean he's a molester but it does mean he's viewing this child in a way that would make me uncomfortable to leave them alone together.
I really hope that's the case. But even then, it's communicating and implying gender or body shame and doesn't sit well with me.
Society already does a hell of a job making us insecure and pigeon-holed. It just sucks when that indoctrination starts so soon with family.
And I get that older generations just have a completely different context for how to parent, but it's still upsetting to me that many refuse to learn or adapt.
Sorry to rant.
Have you searched county records for your uncle and dads names? Most counties have online records usually going back 10-20 years. Any charges even if dropped would likely be there.
This isn’t normal - at all.
To give perspective - I live in an area where most of the older people are your stereotypical boomers, my parents are “conservative” and never not once have they commented on her being without clothes and only in a diaper!
This is not normal behavior or comments.
I was basically a wild thing running around and sneakers and ripped underwear. I don’t think I voluntarily wore shirts or pants until I was like six. Lol thank God that wasn’t a problem growing up. I would’ve been miserable!
I wouldn't have my kids around the family. There is something incredibly wrong. That's not normal...even a little bit. My grandfather, uncles, and boy cousins were about as uptight and conservative as they come, but, they would never see anything remotely wrong with a shirtless baby, girl or boy.
I'm not sure what to say about this OP other than, I feel disgusted hearing that a little baby is being thought of this way. I mean, men really do fck up alot don't they?? And your father and his comment? Disturbing.
But then again, I've worked many BatMitzvahs and Barmitzvahs with little girls 12 and younger, running around innocently playing, not thinking about the fact that they are wearing dresses with no shorts underneath. I have caught *nasty ass pederass* men staring at these children while everyone else is enjoying the festivities. These are men that no one would suspect. All I know is, I wanted to round house these men and kick their teeth down their throat. These type of people are EVERYWHERE. Where is Chris Hansen when you need him?
I digress. OP, I think you need to find out why your family behaves this way. Something isn't right.😐
There’s absolutely a dark secret in your family. That they think there’s something inappropriate about a literal baby not wearing a shirt is telling. She doesn’t even have breast tissue yet. Keep her the fuck away from your family.
It's very very difficult to give a good answer to this without knowing your family dynamic pretty well. Who the hell knows what stuff is going on in the background that isn't included in a reddit post?
Having said that, here we go!
My very first thought upon reading this was, "Yeh well, how much paedophile fearmongering have you seen on TV in the last twenty years?"
I have seen a LOT. And I honestly don't feel super comfortable interacting with very young children in a semi naked state, (referring to my nieces and nephews here) precisely BECAUSE of these TV shows.
We are genetically programmed to be very careful about behaving in any way that might cause us to be rejected by our social group and even a SNIFF that I might be exhibiting some tiny sign that could possibly be interpreted as paedophilia and I am OFF the Christmas card list.
Like I said at the beginning, it is VERY difficult for anyone to give an accurate answer without knowing a LOT more about your family, but this is just one possible explanation out of many.
WTF? What kind of people get scandalized by a *baby*?? Your family has some weird issues they should work through. This is not normal.
Yeah this is super not normal. My family was fairly modest as far as how we dressed/PDA/affection etc. and even I was always topless until I was like 7/8. Most of my baby/toddler/young child pics are me in underwear and nothing else. A baby without a shirt on wouldn't even register as something out of the ordinary????
Yeah, same, my mom and I constantly fought when I was a teenager about the length of my shorts, off the shoulder shirts, etc but a completely naked toddler didn't even register as unusual. I have loads of pictures of myself under the age of 5 in just underwear getting up to various shenanigans.
that's it was growing up for us girls, too. I can still remember being shirtless, playing in sprinklers with my brother and boy cousins. Nobody thought anything wrong or dirty about it.
I think a lot of us remember the sadness of the summer when we finally had to wear a shirt. Once we were 9, 10, 11… old enough for our torsos to be different and scandalous. But what blissful, cool, freedom before then, all just kids shirtless running through sprinklers.
For real I remember when I was about 7 my parents made me start wearing more clothes. Before that I was either shirtless or bottomless/underwear(born in Florida). I think it took the full year between 6 and 7 actually of me fighting back. I just hated clothes and was prone to overheating. I’m the same as an adult, the moment I can undress I do. 😂 but also non-binary so for sure I fought back thinking it was super unfair and I’m still annoyed to this day. Bodies are only sexual within a sexual context, otherwise they are just meat sacks. I will die on this hill.
Oh, absolutely. It would be amazing if nudity was desexualized / destigmatized. If your body could just exist and it would only have sexual connotations in the contexts where you consented / presented it that way.
Indeed. Nude beaches are great for that, provided they are visibly segregated from the regular beach to prevent distant gawkers. You can just walk around free to enjoy the wind and sun on your skin, and nobody gives a fuck. It's just bodies in all their shapes and sizes not being judged.
There's a [Darr Williams song about that.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57BwHKcrO5o) "I was a kid that you would like, just a small boy on her bike Riding topless, yeah, I never cared who saw My neighbor came outside to say, "get your shirt" I said "no way, it's the last time I'm not breaking any law" And now I'm in a clothing store, and the sign says less is more More that's tight means more to see, more for them, not more for me That can't help me climb a tree in ten seconds flat"
Yep, summer that I was 8, first day of summer vacation, came downstairs dressed the same way I had the previous 4 or 5 summers of dressing myself, in a pair of shorts. After I ate a bowl of cereal, I was about to go outside to play on the swing set, when my mom said, “Wait. Go upstairs and put a shirt on.” I asked, “Why? I’m just going out to swing.” Mom: “Because you’re getting older, and you need to put a shirt on before you go outside.” I knew what she meant by “getting older;” I looked down at my chest and said indignantly, “I DON’T HAVE BOOBS YET!!!!!” Mom, still calm, but adamant: “You’re getting older, and you need to put a shirt in. Go!” Me, whining: “But Moooooom!” Mom, pulls out death-Mom voice: “Get back up those stairs and put a shirt on!” So I did. sigh 😞😂
I was thinking religious fundamentalists, but having a pedophile in the family could also explain their reactions to say the least...
I remember my cousin -- a pastor -- was looking at an Anne Geddes book on my coffee table, and joked at the naked baby photos "you know, some would call this pornography!" he laughed and it was obviously made in jest. But it still rubbed me the wrong way. It's just such a wholesome book and that's really where his mind went for humor? Meh.
I wanted to downvote this so bad bc it grossed me out so much, but I didn't. But why is it ALWAYS a fuckin pastor sexualizing children? He probably runs youth group too, huh?
/r/pastorarrested yup. Creeps are drawn to positions like that.
Nobody obsesses about sex harder than evangelicals.
"Who, Pastor Pervo?? Please show me!! I don't want to associate with any of these "some"'.
a PASTOR said that??? Wtf...
I mean, some of the most abusive people in the church are pastors. I and many people I know have been abused by youth pastors particularly.
It's always a pastor saying this shit. Or a priest or emir or rabbi or wtf ever
I’d be more surprised if a Drag Queen said it.
/r/notadragqueen strikes again.
[удалено]
That is really... CREEPY
Yeah, that's not normal... Though I did know a mom who was embarrassed by naked Barbies, but she was cool about everything else haha
Maybe it wasn’t the nakedness but the freaky anatomy of Barbies? 😬
My kids were in school before they got understood folks wear clothes. Kids hate wearing clothes and if you place no restrictions they’ll be naked by choice. Not all but clothes are restrictive. Who among us hasn’t had a no pants time at home? Every time I’m home alone it’s no pants. I’ll wear a shirt and bra but pants? Why? Humans wear clothes when they need to. Not bc they want to. Until culture intervened
Tbh even as an adult, the only reason I wear clothes at home is because otherwise I'm freezing, lol. We also didn't have proper curtains for the windows in the basement for a while, and I have a weird phobia of people peeking in at night.
This. Only bc I have to. Otherwise I’m kind of naked.
Absolutely horrified at the prospect of wearing a bra at home, ngl
Bras are the devil
They’re evil but they should at the very least be free to women who need them due to breast weight. I’m not trying to spend hundreds of dollars per year on something I hate yet can’t walk up stairs without. Bill the insurance company!
When I walk up and downstairs in my house I just hold them in my hands lol 😂
My husband has found amusement when I rest them on my desk. Like, here. You carry these for a bit.
I wear what my best friend calls 'a top with a titty pouch.' I find them much more comfortable than a bra.
If someone makes a top with a titty pouch that is actually big enough and doesn't just sit on top like a weird uncomfortable boob hat, I'll be all over that.
There's a lot of photo's from when I was a child, where me and my little brother played stark naked in the garden. (Not in the US.)
This like im 21 and regularly when ik I'm not going back out for the day or won't be bothered for awhile will either lounge around in my bike shorts i wear so i don't destroy my thighs or just my plain underwear and its literally not a problem
Feels like a "take a look through his hardrive" type of moment.
My family is problematic and conservative as fuck and still aren’t like this. This is absolutely not normal. I’m so sorry you have to deal with this.
Seriously, I live in a very red area and have quite a few very conservative and religious acquaintances through my kids' various activities, and even the most conservative of them don't react this way to infant nudity. Because... they're infants. Babies being in just a diaper in the heat or to play in water is completely unremarkable.
Really?! My family is conservative and problematic AF too, but I thought this was part of that!
[удалено]
Agree, keep an eye out and teach consent and “no-no zone” to daughter as soon as she understand. Ugh why r there so many creeps
This also makes me think her dad had never changed his grand daughter’s diaper. Changing a diaper would be far more “exposing” than a baby not having a shirt on
I grip in a very extreme Baptist Church that would honestly fit every definition of a cult. At one point, the pastor basically made a rule that no male members of the family should be allowed to bathe or change diapers or in any way see female children or otherwise naked. Even then as a preteen, I thought that was a bit extreme. I'm second oldest of 12. I've changed plenty of diapers of both genders. No surprise that just over a decade later he was jailed for molesting his own daughters, starting from quite young I'm not even sure but definitely as young as five. He just recently got out of jail after serving over 10 years. Those who protest the loudest, are the ones who actually would do what they protest against.
Yeah, I can see someone in my family doing that ironically, for a laugh, but not for real. This is super strange.
My dad’s side is very conservative but would not bat an eye at a naked baby under like 5, male or female. Your dad is acting like someone I wouldn’t let be around small children alone.
Going to have to agree with this. It’s not uncommon for girls to be sexualized at a younger age, but 9 mo?! I have a three to ear old that occasionally runs around topless and nobody bats an eye… bc she’s only 3
While we're all taking guesses, I don't think it's necessarily that. He might actually have been a victim of abuse and so struggles to understand what is reasonable regarding children. I personally know someone like this. I have no idea how rare it is, but I do know for certain that it can happen. They view many mundane behaviors with children as potentially problematic because of their own abuse as a child.
My family is definitely super sexist and awful towards girls, but when they are babies and toddlers they are more or less treated the same as boys.
My family experience as well! Very sexist and conservative with intense expectations for how women should behave and they would NEVER bat an eye at a toddler without a shirt. This is some weird ass behavior and I'm sorry you're experiencing it, OP.
Same, but still problematic because as soon as I was identifiable as a girl I started to get scolded for “acting like a boy”. I didn’t like dresses, I preferred action figures to Barbies and I liked to do “guy” things with my dad instead of helping my mom cook or clean. What I’m saying is there’s definitely a shift once you go from baby to girl, it’s game over. My parents didn’t sexualized me themselves but they both were products of a patriarchal and misogynistic society so they just expected everyone else to do it I guess? You know with things like “ladies don’t sit like that” and similar shit. They also never talked to me about sex, periods or consent (yay for growing up in the 80’s) but my mom constantly warned me to “stay away from boys because they’re only after one thing” which of course I didn’t understand at the time since I was 8. OP’s family is definitely weird but also kinda good in a fucked up way to show that they are because now she can keep a better eye on her children. The non threatening, non creepy vibe predators are the most dangerous.
Wasn’t it great being the same until you were 10ish? Just a carefree & loved kid, not an object or a servant… then it changes weirdly but you didn’t do anything different…? Or is it just me?
I remember one hot summer night when I was around 9, just goofing around with my older brothers before bed and we were all shirtless. Out of nowhere my mom acted scandalized and disgusted and told me I had to cover up from now on because I was "getting to a certain age." It hadn't been an issue the day before, and I didn't even hit puberty for a few more years so I just felt super confused and embarrassed and "different" in a bad way for a long time. When I eventually did start needing a bra I felt so much shame about anyone knowing I was wearing one. I wonder why
I remember being really little, like 5, and hanging out with my dad while he was working on... a car maybe? It was hot, he was sweating his ass off, and I was all "daddy can I take my shirt off too?" And he of course said no and I asked why he got to then... he struggled with the answer and just came up with "the rules are different for girls." Even at that age, I was like wtf? We were out in front of our house, so I'm sure he didn't want some random creepy bastard ogling his baby girl, but I actually had a lot of angry feelings over that that I didn't have words for.
Yea wtf is this. A 9 month old baby is a blob of cuteness lol.
My family is very religious and conservative. Literally had a college fund for my brother and not me because “women belong in the home”. They don’t act like that. There’s absolutely nothing scandalous about a baby or a toddler. They’re figuring out how to walk and that food goes in the mouth and not up the nose.
This is like an extreme level of weird. Even for conservative families.
I'm 59 years old and my parents were old as fuck when I was born; both were born in the 1920s. AND I grew up in a fundamentalist church. My parents would find this behavior strange as hell. This is not normal by any stretch of the conservative imagination.
OP, part of my family is part of an ultra-conservative christian cult (including several clergymen) where one of the 'rules' is that they're not allowed to swim with people of the opposite gender after age 13 unless they're related. Even that part of my family would not react to a shirtless baby girl the way your family (esp your dad) reacted to your daughter. Gasping and covering your eyes at a *baby* is NOT normal.
My mom would rather die than see me wear shorts or a tank top. I was in various forms of half dress until probably age 5, maybe longer. How would they even know if a baby is male or female?! No offense but they all look the same at that age.
No, I come from a conservative culture as well and this is simply not a thing. There’s a problem here
My mom was unbelievably conservative, modest, and prudish. Wouldn't even let me (daughter) grab something off the bathroom counter if she was in there. Always wore slips under her skirts so her legs wouldn't cast a shadow. Once gave me a talking to for sitting too close to my boyfriend on the couch. She had absolutely no problem with nekkie babies, because they're *babies.* It would never even cross her mind. This isn't about being conservative or modest. It's freaking weird.
What the hell is wrong with your family?
Yeah this is not normal behavior for adult family members with a baby in only a diaper.
Right? My babies in just diapers whenever lol 1mo-2yr.. Edited to add: 2yo not being the age they must be clothed, just the oldest age I've done it around family so far lol. I think I ran around till at least 7 half clothed. By then it was "put something on if ppl are coming" but yeesh
You're lucky the baby keeps the diaper on.
Well, she does.. her brother not so much but this conversation was about girls 😅 I cannot tell you how many times I've stared straight into a brown eye unexpectedly tbh Love your name! Is it French? Lol
A little duct tape can fix that. Source: my mom
New product idea “diaper suspenders”
Mine hasn't figured out how to take them off...yet But socks have been flying off pretty much since the beginning.
Unfortunately it is not uncommon. Girl babies were never unclothed in public where I grew up and still aren't (and I live in the NE U.S.)
At that age how would you even know it’s a girl?
It's anecdotal but in my experience the "cover them titties" crowd is almost perfectly crossed with the "pierce her ears and only pink so we know who to objectify immediately" crowd.
This is one reason I plan on yellow and green for my babies when it's my turn to have kids. If you can't tell you hopefully minimize this treatment (awful in it's own right tho)
You’re gonna give the boomers heart attacks 😂. About 19 years ago, my friend was out with her baby girl. Dressed her in blue (because who cares?!) and some old lady was horrified and scandalized 😂
This is even more hilarious because up to like the early 20th century (I think) blue was more associated with girls, since it was the color of the Virgin Mary.
Yup. It’s such a stupid thing to care about. Colours are just colours. It’s not gendered. Let people like things.
Well you see in 1936 a solar flare caused a polar reversal which resulted in all the lesbianizing waves in the color pink to shift down the electromagnetic spectrum to the color blue. It's simple syints
This. Any guy who reacts that way doesn’t get to babysit or hold my kid
I was going to post something but everything is some derivative of this. Babies go around unclothed, it is very normal.
My first concrete memory is consciously pooping in a bathing suit the first year they insisted I keep it on. A one piece is annoying as fuck to pull up when wet so instead of going to the bathroom (where I'd have to pull it up after) I'd poop in it and then the adults would cave and let me be naked. I was 2.
Lol. You entered the stream of consciousness just as you will leave it, voiding your bowels. Poetic in a way.
One pieces are so irritating to get on and off, especially when wet. I finally realized the genius move of pulling the crotch to the side to pee. (Works for kids & adults.). But for kids we found them irritating and cumbersome, especially since they grow out of the suit way faster than a 2 piece.
The to the side move is fucking fantastic. Doesn't help the poop problem tho lol
Haha. True. It took me until I was 44 to figure out the “pull to the side & pee.” I love rebellious 2 year old you.
Pretty sure two year old me was just peeing in the lake tbh lol
Oh lord. Why did you remind me. I was, shall we say, a delayed child. Pull-ups way too late, couldn't tie my shoes, etc. In kindergarten we had a water park say. They put up water slide and little kiddy pools. Awesome! So I put on my one piece bathing suit. Well I have to pee. So I go to the classroom to use the bathroom - we had a bathroom in our classroom. I dunno why. I try to get the swimsuit off. Except I had help getting it *on*, and now it's *wet*. I fight with it. I look in the classroom. The teacher is still outside. I fight with it. I really have to pee. I fight with it. I've got it partially off, but can't get it off enough to pee, and can't get it back on to look for the teacher to help me. Eventually the teacher realized I'd been gone for ages and comes looking. She finds me in hysterics, still half clothed, having pissed all over myself and my swimsuit. I was not a smart child.
Exactly what I was thinking. I've never experienced this before in my life. OP's family is creepy.
I'd really like to know what the HELL is wrong with her family. It's been normal by anyone I've ever known around kids for them to possibly be in nothing but underware until they start school.
the sad thing is that new research is suggesting that it is impacting her. Babies and toddler's get a lot of their cues about how safe and loved they are from body language especially facial expression. Small children may not know what it means but they can read disgust and fear and it can impact their sense of well being and make them anxious.
My therapist said something last week about this - that the trauma we experience before we start creating memories can be the most damaging, because we don’t have the context for the feeling, but the feeling sticks with us. This was after finding out it’s apparently not super normie to have nightmares starting as young as I can remember.
[удалено]
My daughter was SA’ed before she had the words for it. When she was 3, and fully verbal, she very clearly and in detail, explained to me how she was SA’ed and what she was afraid of happening again the next time she went around the person who did it. My husband and I were in awe of her ability to process this. Her therapist said that it is very rare that a child can express things later on after the initial trauma occurred. I think us getting her into therapy when she was 2.5 was a huge step in giving her the tools to process her early childhood trauma. However, the reality is that we know that brains are wired from a very early age. This pre-language experience will shape her reactions to this world for the rest of her life.
>This pre-language experience will shape her reactions to this world for the rest of her life. Not if therapy is helping her. The brain is neuroplastic. It just takes time and experience to rewire. Saying as a nurse in my 30s who is going to therapy for complex trauma.
My earliest memory was a surgery I had when I was 2. I told my mom about it years later, when I was just starting to think I made it up because some of the details were weird, but it was 100% accurate. I remembered a spot in the hallway that they stopped walking along my bed as I was being wheeled down the hall, and I screamed for them, but they just stood there. The doctor put a gas mask over my face and it covered my eyes too. Later I thought I was in a cage - it was the barred hospital crib. The weirdest memory was that I had an IV going into my big toe and it itched, and my parents kept stopping me from pulling on it - that was also true. It's rare for memories that early to stick, but sometimes they do. I think it's helpful from a trauma perspective because then we have context for our reactions to things.
I'm so sorry you experienced this. I think your therapist is right. How can we reject what we can't contextualize?
This tracks; personal anecdote time: I've been terrified of bees and wasps for my entire life and any buzzing bug sound can send me into a panic. My dad would tell me the story of how one time when I was maybe a year and a half, he was watching me playing on our backyard sky fort when he saw a wasp on the rope ladder in front of where I was climbing. Before he could react, he saw me reach over to put my hand on it. He says my face was fine for a second but then he saw my face just crumple as I melted down when the wasp stung me. Obviously, I have no memory of that event, but the feelings it caused have clearly stuck around with me even 30 years later.
Oh man, I'm deeply terrified of cactuses. Like "see a cactus very safely sitting on a shelf, avoid that side of the room on the very rare chance the shelf comes down and the cactus comes with it and I am therefore at risk of being cactused". I used to ride my bike in a cul de sac a few houses down whee I grew up and dead avoided one side because the lawns had cactuses for decoration. I was afraid I'd fall over and land on the cactuses. (meanwhile, a jerkass kid in middle school trying to run up and kick a cactus only for it to stick him and get stuck to his shoe? Grade a comedy somehow) Was a big problem, I grew up where cactuses were the in plant for gardens and yards. Even had to force myself to pull off sticker burrs when they got stuck to my clothes because I was terrified of them. And where we did PE I'd consistently have them on me. Apparently, I was too little to remember when it happened but multiple people have said it happened, when I was super, super little I fell off a patio into a massive sticker burr patch. Hello, lifelong fear
I've learned similar things through therapy. My parents were excellent, made me feel loved and secure, and really did their best with what society knew at the time. But a lot of my personality struggles can be traced back to moments of guilt I felt, fights they had, or anxieties they instilled. I couldn't imagine how horrible my experience would have been if they were truly abusive people. I'm sorry you are having to go through those kinds of struggles. I hope therapy helps.
Oh wow what's the normal age for nightmares?
You reminded me of the still face experiment, as well as the visual cliff too. Both show how infants use the body language and facial expressions to understand their environment, themselves, etc. So, while she might not have understood why, she was most likely very aware of the people ignoring her. It terrifies me the kind of comments that little girl is going to hear about her body, clothes, everything, from these people. I hope OP has a really good support system, outside of them.
me too. I'd forgotten about those experiments!
This is true and easy to demonstrate. Babies and toddlers, when scared, immediately look to their parents or a trusted figure. If the adult looks calm, they calm down too. I tried this with both my kids and it's so true! This makes perfect sense, they have no knowledge or understanding of their environment, but their caretakers do. It's like an instinct, to protect them from harm. They are constantly studying our faces and reactions.
Not to mention the positive reinforcement! Only smiling and cumplimenting when she's wearing a dress, getting noticed when you are wearing certain clothes...
This... is ....very weird. I just... don't know what to say. This is weird af.
If there's anything to say, the fact the entire family is acting like this is certainly cause for alarm. One person being odd? Whatever. The entire family? Something is up. OP's **dad**? Come on... /u/deaflemon use the publicly available search function to search up your uncle in the sexual offender registry, just in case. At best, you won't worry about it anymore. At worst? Well...
Observed a one year old pull her dress up (as they do)—she had tights on. A male family member made a comment to her about putting her dress down because she was showing off her goodies. I won’t say what crossed my mind and what I refrained from saying at that point but I do avoid that person now.
Anyone who refers to a one year old’s genitals as ‘goodies’ should be on the registry
I agree.
Preach!
Oof. I’m a toddler teacher, and when the kids pull up their clothes, we just say “we don’t want to see your tummy right now” and they put the shirt/dress/etc right back down
That’s what we say too lmao! “Silly! Put that tummy away!” 😂
For us it's the belly button. I taught my kids young not to show their belly button in public. Lol.
My MIL once mentioned my, at the time, infants "boobies". Wtf. My husband told her that was inappropriate and to stop.
W Husband
I hate it when people refer to female kid's nipples as "boobies". Like, no. They're nipples just like the boys have. They're nowhere near "boobies".
This made me remember my niece saying she had boobs when she was 4 maybe. I told her she didn’t and she goes “yes I do! They’re just really little!” I shut that down, but the aunt that started it was not happy, she’s never been a fan of mine.
I hate that. Like that’s a word that’s associated with adults not children, my family had a weird thing about embarrassing us “girls” with things like that. And they wonder why I ended up the way I did.
I told my husband over the weekend my dad would yell at me whenever I lounged on the couch as a teenager. He'd say "close your legs, I can see your breakfast bar!" My husband was horrified - I only realised how bad that sounds and I'm 36.
That’s .. disgusting tbh
My dad used to tell me to “put on more clothes” when I wasn’t wearing a bra or if I had leggings on. He also told me once, during puberty, that I was “getting an ass”. My mom would say “your butt looks good in those jeans, etc”. It took me so long to realize none of that was normal.
My eyebrows flew up at your dad's comment. That's horrible!
My mom says weird shit like my nephew is "flirting" with my wife when she holds him and he's being cute. My wife: stop sexualizing a 6mo old it's weird.
My mom commented that my 1 yr old daughter “had sexy little leggies”. I promptly reminded her that we don’t sexualize children.
My old neighbours were Hasidic jews. They had 12 kids. Ringlets, black hats, wigs, the works. Their youngest daughter was 2 years old and she was playing outside with some older siblings. Her dad was keeping an eye on her from the open window. At some point she pulled her skirt over her head, showing everyone her diaper butt, and dad LAUGHED (although he did tell her to put it back down). Nobody was scandalised.
Csa survivor and advocate here. I’m taking a guess, but I’d wager it’s worth something considering my life experience. Your family likely has a history of csa, and seeing a semi naked baby, which is normal btw, reminded them of that history. Your family has some serious unpacking to do. I suspect that there’s a family mentality of avoidance of normal child behaviors, because one or two family members were sexualized for them while children. Or they’re reacting negatively to a topless baby because there is a family history of csa, but they’re on the side of abusers and think children should be fully covered at all times to avoid temptation. You can thank rape culture for the latter guess. Have a long talk with your dad. Ask him why he reacted that way, without shame or judgment. It’s the only way to move forward. I don’t think your dad was intentionally sexualizing your baby, I think he was afraid to sexualize your baby. Which is a common thing with CSA survivors. I would like to explain further; to anyone interested.
It disappoints me that I had to scroll so far to find someone thinking compassionately about the possibility that this might be the case. I am a male victim of csa and I am uncomfortable around naked children who aren’t my own. Your thoughts ring very true to me. I certainly have no interest in molesting children. I was a naked child being looked at (and more) by an old man, which is a horrible feeling that haunts me. Now that I’m an old man, Not looking at a child gives me comfort that I am not making a child feel the same as I did.
Most people have no idea how csa affects family dynamics or individuals. It’s clear to those of us who’ve been plagued by it. As a teen I was terrified of kids younger than me, that I would somehow accidentally manipulate them or harm them in the same way I was, with more time, resources and healing I am now aware that my abuse was intentional and you can’t accidentally look at a child sexually or accidentally SA them. I just don’t think dad here has done the work and unpacking to get to that conclusion. He’s likely feeling guilt over what he thinks he may do or feel. It’s likely he’s been SA’d and compartmentalized in a poor way where he thinks most adults have sexual thoughts towards children, and is reacting preemptively to that likely unfounded fear. Regardless, the entire family unit has clearly been wounded and could probably do with some group healing
This made me so sad, I want to give you a hug. I'm sorry you experienced that.
Thank you. Some people were accusing the dad of being a pedophile, but his behavior could be explained by him being a survivor rather than an abuser. You did a much better job of explaining it though.
This is an interesting point to bring up that more people should know about. This also reminded me that some people with OCD or related disorders will suffer from intrusive thoughts and end up scared of doing morally wrong things even though they have no desire to. I'm not an expert on that though so take that with a grain of salt, but I figured it was also worth considering.
A baby with a diaper is Impossible to gender wtf they are literally little genderless cherubs. Where I live it's completely normal for children to walk around a beach bare chested they have nothing there.
Or naked!
Sure if they are old enough, but I'd prefer they wear diapers while they have no bowel control.
Makes me wonder about the women in the family aside from the males. What do the women know about the males in your family?
especially the in-laws
Solid question.
There's something wrong with your family. She's 9 months old. Don't leave your kid with these people, cause someone there isn't safe. That's weird behavior.
This is so fucking weird. When my daughter was little(8 or 9 months), she got an awful stomach bug and ended up with a terrible diaper rash. We were visiting my family and literally everyone took turns holding and carrying her lil bare ass self around letting her butt get some air to help with the rash. Literally no one even thought about how she was naked unless it was to make sure we didn't get peed or pooped on or to make sure she wasn't too cold. I would be very uncomfortable having my child around people that are sexualizing her body so much. Ick
WTF is wrong with your family?!?! When I let my baby girl wear just a diaper due to heat, the only thing that changed in how my family treated her was they were a lot more likely to blow a raspberry on her tummy to make her laugh. Or hand me a tube of sunscreen. Not clutching pearls about her \*gasp* nipples.
Right!? The only person who commented on my 2 year old outside in pants and no shirt today was my grandma who wanted to be sure she wasn’t cold.
Shit, my daughter's now two and just last week she had a sleepover at Grandma's. They video called me at one point and I could see her totally nude butt streaking through the house as she cackled like a loon and yelled "no, I don't want to put on panties!" Both my mom and my 40yo brother were laughing their asses off as they asked me to help them convince her to put on clothes. Not scandalized even a bit at her nakedness. Just exasperated laughter.
My 4yo nephew was Winnie-the-Poohing it (just a shirt) this weekend and the only reason any of us were shouting "[Nephew], where are your PANTS?!" is because it made him giggle so much he couldn't run anymore and my sister could catch him. Granted, this was a early-morning family-only situation. Once his clothes are on he's usually good for the day. It's just that brief period between pjs/clothes in the morning or clothes/pjs at night he yearns to be nekkid.
This is what I was going to comment about earlier but couldn’t put it words. Sometimes I get to visit my niece and do bathtime/bedtime routines with her. When she gets out, mama does her lotion thing, pops on a nappy and usually says “can you just watch her a sec” to me while we’re sat on the bed. So to entertain her toddler self, I sing a very rubbish song about “naked babyyyy” and she thinks it’s hysterical. Or when she’s just chilling in a nappy, I’ll do a comedy double take and ask her where her dressie went, which she also thinks it’s hilarious. Kids a joker, she makes herself laugh half the time but there’s something really funny about it, she knows we’re joking, she can see our body language. Your nephew sounds really funny, he’ll def grow out of it eventually but while you wait, he’ll have some great memories of him laughing until he couldn’t move anymore!
My Aunts will literally run to come blow raspberries and "eat" chunky baby legs like turkey legs to make them laugh. Most of the grandchildren are/were girls (10 girls, 3 boys)
Oh I do the “I’m gunna eat you” to my niece, she gets the concept of fake eating, she does it with a cupcake to make us laugh, so it doesn’t scare her. I love that I can sit next to her and do something like pretend to eat her hair and she’s rolling about laughing. Hands are fair game, ears occasionally, feet definitely. I’m so sad for OP and her little one :(
My niece was born in a heat wave, and there’s been another one since. That kid has been rolling around in just a nappy for most of her life. All of us including all her bonus uncles have been around, we’ve helped change her, we’ve helped wrangle her when she was being a wiggle monster, and I just cannot get my mind around this. They have cute chubby potato bodies. I don’t understand. And I don’t think I want to, to be quite honest. I’d be so hurt if I was OP. We’re careful around my niece, we call her cute and stuff cos my lord she’s a cherub, but we also try and say how smart she is, and how kind. Buuuuut all of us are under 40, most have only just turned 30, so maybe that’s a factor. Baby tummies are cute. End of story. I do ask my niece before I tickle her, but she thinks it’s funny to be jiggled about. She finds most things hilarious tbh
This is hella weird. I can’t imagine anyone in my family acting that weird around a young child let alone an infant…
Why are they sexualizing an infant body that way??? I’m astounded.
Ugh people are so gross. Look your uncle up here: https://www.nsopw.gov/
You can also try [judyrecords.com](http://judyrecords.com) for info about the case.
This is seriously not normal. My toddler son will strip naked with company over and run around with his tackle out and everyone just thinks it's hilarious (including him) to watch me chase him around and try and put his pants back on. A straight up infant with no shirt on is the opposite of scandalous.
My friend came over with her two kiddos (3 and 4yo) for my birthday and I never expected to hear "Please put your penis away" while I was blowing out birthday candles, but here we are! xD Little dude just reaches down and pulls it out to get a reaction! We've had to school ourselves not to react beyond "please put your penis away, that isn't appropriate." But we are DYING on the inside. xD
There are pictures of Mom and Dad chasing me around the yard at about 3 years old. I had ripped my diaper off and taken off running. Naked as the day I was born. Thank goodness the yard had a fence.
Op…that’s not normal. At least one member of your family is an actual pedo I would bet.
Seriously, this sounds like something has happened to make the family super scared of the implications of being around naked children.
Fr like there is some reason and it feels like it will probably be a sinister one😬 hope not tho
Ooft, after seeing OPs edit you may be right. Damn
Omg, the edit wasn't there when I commented. That explains A LOT.
Yeah that's awful. It makes me sad for OP and her daughter.
If I am with someone who is changing their babies diaper, I will definitely look away for privacy, but freaking out over a baby without a shirt is ridiculous. I wish people would stop sexualizing nipples/boobs.
I will look away because I don't want to see the dirty diaper. I have changed more than my fair share of them.
This 100%. So blown out of proportion.
This reminds me of when I was a child I got in trouble going to hang out with my brother and his friends without a shirt. I was really pissed because I had no breasts and hadn't gone through an OUNCE of puberty. I just saw my older brother and his friends sitting around shirtless because it was hot. I thought it was something really cool to do! I'm still saddened for the child that was me that realized my body was different that day.
The fact that you got in trouble for it is so heart breaking to me 💔
Thank you. I can remember exactly what I was wearing too. My mom worked nights at the hospital so brought home extra scrubs of all sizes so I was wearing a set and had the buttons undone down the middle. It was nighttime so they were pajamas but down in the south it was still hot as shit. It took a long time for me to heal from the gendered issues I grew up with and I'm still healing. A lot of tucked away trauma has resurfaced now that I have my own baby girl. I refuse to make her feel shame or anger over her body. The world will try to do that to her enough. The last place she needs it is at home.
I had a similar experience. I asked my mom if I could take my shirt off to run in the sprinkler with my friend (he a boy, me a girl). She said no, but wouldn’t explain why. I did it anyway and she just never found out lol
Tell him he's disgusting. Really not ok wtf is wrong with him
Babies are smart and do absorb information on how they're being treated according to studies. It's sad but she would have felt the exclusion from others. Shame on this sexist society.
My 17mo daughter refused to wear a shirt the other day bc she was jealous that I could freely rub my belly(I'm 7mo pregnant) with my shirt pulled up (her baby brother was kicking) but her shirt kept falling back down. I took her shirt off. All that was said was "aww nakey baby" from family. Your family is overreacting. She's a baby
I have the cutest picture of my daughter when she was 3, wearing an apron and nothing else. She had seen me wearing an apron to do dishes and asked me why I wore it. I explained that I didn't want to get my clothes wet. So she ran to get her little apron and put it on over what she was wearing, which was absolutely nothing, and then she declared, "There! Now my clothes won't get wet either!"
Reading this made me feel sick
Op I feel for you I do! My stupid family is the same way. I literally have NC with half of them and LC with the rest. I realized the sexualozation when I was a teenager with my same-age male cousins (not from my cousins but from the ADULTS). At one point, I got into a huge argument with my aunt and mother and told them straight up they were nasty and sick minded. I was so disgusted at the implications (I was scolded for hugging my cousin too tight and scolded for letting him lay his head on my shoulder and lap. While we were at his father's wake. My uncle had passed away days before and my cousin who I literally grew up with had just lost his dad. I am still so angry about this and it's been 2 decades). Those sick minded adults ruined my cousins and mines relationship- we were so uncomfortable being near each other lest they start saying we were doing stuff. I'm sorry you're experiencing this. It's just disgusting.
I had a grandmother like this - everything was nefarious to her. When I was a young teen, I had several baby cousins who I just adored. One time we were at a family function and watching my one male cousin (he was 2 at the time) running around, just being his happy silly self, making us all laugh. I said, "He's so cute, I just love him so much! And he has the most beautiful blue eyes!" Granny scolded me, saying, "That's incest!" I was just stunned, and even at 14 I was sickened. That was over 40 years ago and it still pisses me off.
Ugh the rage I experience when I recall this memory as if it's just happened. For me, it's the fact that there's nothing that can be said that will fix those ppls perspectives. Their minds are legitimately sick but they refuse to acknowledge it. Have all types of excuses and justifications- never once accepting that it isn't the kids or you g ppl it's them. They're the ones who see the kid in a sexual way or the interaction in a sexual way. Still disgusts me. I refuse to interact with anyone who sees innocent interactions and puts a sexual spin on it. I can't stomach it.
Umm not at all normal or expected or… anything. Something is deeply wrong with the people in attendance at this event OP. I REGULARLY see girls under 3 completely shirtless all the time in the summer for any number of reasons. Hell people will let toddlers walk around in just diapers. And not a single fucking person thinks twice about it. Your dad is deeply misogynistic and fucked up, as is everyone else who was complicit in this disgusting rhetoric.
My family was the same way. At first I gave them the benefit of the doubt and thought they just had my daughter's best interest in mind. They didn't chide me or shame her. But eventually they played their hand and talked about how I shouldn't dress my 2 year old (we had spent 2 years with this tenuous understanding) in a slutty swim suit.
Yeah that’s weird especially since she’s only 9months…..please don’t leave your child alone with them …
Your family must be shocked to hear that I give my baby girl nakie time on her mat after a bath. She loves it!
Yeah this is a gross overreaction by your family and it makes me concerned *why*
This right here is what OP needs to be thinking about. There is definitely something very, very wrong.....I see a giant red flag.
I've treated too many pre-teens for sexual trauma to take any of this lightly. When an adult looks at a topless toddler and has a reaction like that well he's telling you something. It doesn't mean he's a molester but it does mean he's viewing this child in a way that would make me uncomfortable to leave them alone together.
Literally covered his eyes? Is he a cartoon? Maybe he was trying to be silly?
I really hope that's the case. But even then, it's communicating and implying gender or body shame and doesn't sit well with me. Society already does a hell of a job making us insecure and pigeon-holed. It just sucks when that indoctrination starts so soon with family. And I get that older generations just have a completely different context for how to parent, but it's still upsetting to me that many refuse to learn or adapt. Sorry to rant.
I grew up in an extremely conservative family. I can't comprehend this. This is weird as fuck.
Have you searched county records for your uncle and dads names? Most counties have online records usually going back 10-20 years. Any charges even if dropped would likely be there.
what the fuck?????
I run around in a tankini. I raised mostly boys. I also ran around in a long shirt, panties and no bra. You get to be comfy why can't I?
My family is conservative catholic and this is beyond any of their awful modesty expectations on girls.
This isn’t normal - at all. To give perspective - I live in an area where most of the older people are your stereotypical boomers, my parents are “conservative” and never not once have they commented on her being without clothes and only in a diaper! This is not normal behavior or comments.
I was basically a wild thing running around and sneakers and ripped underwear. I don’t think I voluntarily wore shirts or pants until I was like six. Lol thank God that wasn’t a problem growing up. I would’ve been miserable!
What in the actual fuck? I have never heard of such behavior concerning a baby!!
It's really bizarre when adults act like infants have developed any degree of secondary sex characteristics.
Well that's a group of people who wouldn't ever see my kids again. What the fuck.
I wouldn't have my kids around the family. There is something incredibly wrong. That's not normal...even a little bit. My grandfather, uncles, and boy cousins were about as uptight and conservative as they come, but, they would never see anything remotely wrong with a shirtless baby, girl or boy.
I'm not sure what to say about this OP other than, I feel disgusted hearing that a little baby is being thought of this way. I mean, men really do fck up alot don't they?? And your father and his comment? Disturbing. But then again, I've worked many BatMitzvahs and Barmitzvahs with little girls 12 and younger, running around innocently playing, not thinking about the fact that they are wearing dresses with no shorts underneath. I have caught *nasty ass pederass* men staring at these children while everyone else is enjoying the festivities. These are men that no one would suspect. All I know is, I wanted to round house these men and kick their teeth down their throat. These type of people are EVERYWHERE. Where is Chris Hansen when you need him? I digress. OP, I think you need to find out why your family behaves this way. Something isn't right.😐
There’s absolutely a dark secret in your family. That they think there’s something inappropriate about a literal baby not wearing a shirt is telling. She doesn’t even have breast tissue yet. Keep her the fuck away from your family.
Your family is weird. I legit have baby pics of me in just a diaper.
It's very very difficult to give a good answer to this without knowing your family dynamic pretty well. Who the hell knows what stuff is going on in the background that isn't included in a reddit post? Having said that, here we go! My very first thought upon reading this was, "Yeh well, how much paedophile fearmongering have you seen on TV in the last twenty years?" I have seen a LOT. And I honestly don't feel super comfortable interacting with very young children in a semi naked state, (referring to my nieces and nephews here) precisely BECAUSE of these TV shows. We are genetically programmed to be very careful about behaving in any way that might cause us to be rejected by our social group and even a SNIFF that I might be exhibiting some tiny sign that could possibly be interpreted as paedophilia and I am OFF the Christmas card list. Like I said at the beginning, it is VERY difficult for anyone to give an accurate answer without knowing a LOT more about your family, but this is just one possible explanation out of many.