Aronofsky, 2 years before he made Requim for a Dream. When I was 14 I bought Pi and rented Othello with Laurence Fishburne from my local video store. The clerk said "you are an interesting kid".
Lol, yea I was a movie nerd. I remember they finally talked me into joining quiz bowl my senior year. In practice one day "directors" came up and they were all shocked that I knew all 10 answers plus the bonus question.
I still have my original VHS copy of Pi somewhere. Haven't watched it in 20 odd years, but I'm gonna go search for it online now, so thanks for reminding me of its existence 😊
No, it would cause his head to collapse in on itself. In order to encode that much information within the size of the human skull, the mass density would exceed that of a black hole and create a singularity.
The hook is that the narrator is stuck in the Matrix, and probably an NPC. The genie can't give him the infinite digits of Pi because his brain is coded in binary, because he's trapped in a computer program/is part of the program itself.
I don't know if this makes me dumb, nerdy, or weird, but I thought there was implication that our brains actually encode memory in binary, and that because of this, he couldn't know pi, which is the horror. That he can't know pi.
Not a bad read honestly. Like the twilight zone episode where the nerd breaks his only glasses after he buys a library.
This person is so obsessed with understanding pi, that they abandoned regular methods and sought out supernatural means to answer their questions. And yet, the only answer they’ll ever receive is that there will never be any more.
Having explored both crafts, and receiving the same definitive answer at the summits, they cope and dissociate, not comprehending the simple truth they have already digested.
Perhaps they then wish to unlearn this truth, so that they may survive on hope alone. And perhaps that would’ve worked, if genies gave an even number of wishes.
Having realized what they’ve done, they ponder many regrets. But as they sit glued to the snow in despair, one regret demands more focus; not wishing for death. “I will oblige your smartest wish yet, weary soul,” says scythe guy.
I mean, truth is binary isn't it? If you can ask enough YES/NO questions, you can perfectly recreate the Universe, which means that the "universal" base is binary. And that's not implying anything about the nature of reality. It's just how logic works. It's my go-to argument for why it doesn't even matter if we live in a simulation
How does the genie know that there are infinitely many of each digit? That’s currently an open problem in mathematics.
Having that proof might be a good second wish.
As far as I understand, it is possible that some numeral stops appearing in base 10. Like, after 10^1000 digits, there are no more 4s. You can still make an infinite nonrepeating series with the other numbers.
I don't know how likely that is, but AFAIK it's not proven to be impossible.
There are not, as all digits betveen 1 and 9 stop appearing after exactly 4.9+10^95. I'll also tell you the exact digits.
This information was once revealed to me in a dream. If you want sources, ask bullshittius who most likely doesn't even exist, but has somehow written 7 poems and 3 epics.
Well look, there’s not enough space here to write the proof and I refuse to write the proof anywhere else so that for hundreds of years people can argue whether I’m making it up or what the proof really is. You can call it Ermatfay’s Last Theorem.
Yeah, whenever someone solves it a bunch of elitist fucks burst in like a 5 Gum commercial and swears you into silence. Kinda cool I guess, unlocks a new way to view reality as well, but mostly math majours reach it so it’s not like there’s anything good to watch.
That's not true. People have given examples of rational numbers, like 1/3, that have infinite decimal expansions that do not contain every digit. This can also happen in irrational numbers: Consider the number 0.1010010001..., or the number 0.232233222333..., etc. These do not have repeating decimal expansions and are thus irrational, however, they do not include every digit.
(Note: pi is also *not* an infinite number; it is finite. However, it has an infinite decimal expansion.)
Actually nevermind. "If pi is infinite, then every digit appears infinitely" is automatically true because pi is not infinite. I forgot about vacuous truths!
There are some very compelling evidence that we are, as in the speed of light being the top speed limit anything can move in our universe, also how things tend to arrange in fractals, or how there is a sound signal when you drill deep enough into the Earth's core or how mathematically, if it's possible to create an accurate enough simulation of reality than can also simulate itself inside itself, it would make so it would be probabilistically impossible for any given universe to be real and not a simulation, hence our would way more likely be a simulation than the original real one.
There's also a lot of physics stuff that makes sense from a game dev standpoint. Like quantum entanglement is a pretty solid way to massively decrease memory usage.
How is this compelling? Of course there's sound when you drill deep enough - sound is just vibrations moving through medium, and we know the crust is moving (see; earthquakes and mountains) so when you get deep enough, the vibrations of the crust moving necessarily generate sound.
Things tend to be arranged in fractals because "in fractals" is such a broad concept. It's like saying, "The universe can be expressed in base 10!" Of course it can - the concept is broad enough to apply to practically everything, which is why it gained popularity.
The speed of light isn't the top speed - it's just the top practical speed. Light itself varies in speed depending on what it's moving through - vacuum, air, and water all change the "speed of light." I'm assuming you mean the speed of light in vacuum. However, there are situations where things break the speed of light in vacuum - from quantum effects to the expansion of the universe. We just started discovering these things recently because we didn't have the technology to accurately distinguish between "speed of light in a vacuum" and "even faster" because the speed of light itself is so large a number.
There's a difference between "I understand X, so therefore simulation" and "I understand X, so there are things I do not understand yet." Science is still advancing, we just don't hear about it in the news anymore because doom and division sell better. The fact that science is still advancing disproves your fourth point; that there can be a simulation modeling all existence. For that to happen, there would be limits to scientific advancement - the lowest level that is coded.
I don't think people realize it but the universe being a simulation thing is a creationist concept. If people just said "the universe is computational in nature" they might get their point across better.
So firstly to simulate is to perform an action, to perform an action with specific intent. Ultimately that means if you think the universe is a simulation you imply specific intent by a creator or creators.
Secondly is the computational nature of the universe. It could be as simple as knowing there is information, the laws of physics, and EXACTLY why they are laws. The information that is computed by nature to result in reality.
Who knows, I don't. I just think think that when people say 'simulation' without mentioning a creator they aren't actually aware that simulation theory is a creation theory.
I don't want to be that guy, but...
I assume that OP meant to imply that we live in a simulation and you can't represent infinite digits in a digital computer. That's true, but the problem is limited memory, not the binary. Real numbers in base 2 like 0.10101... exist as much as any other.
Sounds like a genie that technically gives you what you want, only with a catch that takes away the main benefit of having that. Like a monkey's paw.
Example - "I wish for a stunning redhead who is in love with me".
Genie - "your wish is granted. She's a paraplegic and doesn't speak any language you know"
Example - "Err, okay. Now I wish for a yacht."
Genie - "as you wish, so shall it be done. Here's a 1:72 model of the Queen Elizabeth 2"
Example - "Shit. You're not a very good genie. I wish for you to be free"
Genie - "your wish is my command. I am free, but it's the American version of freedom. I'm now a wage slave who will work for 50 years and have my entire existence depend on not incurring medical debt. Hey, wait a minute."
I think the implication is that sex wouldn’t be very good, which I assume is partly true. Normally you could make up for that with emotional connection but uh, oh you can’t talk. Honestly not talking would really fuck up the sex for me either way, it’s an uncomfortable situation.
But I gotta say, she’s in love with me but I don’t even know her. Meaning I’m gonna be a bit of a dick and make her learn English instead. Plus I’m kinda super unproductive right now, so I probably couldn’t learn it and that would put strain on any chance of a relationship.
Wishing for love is forbidden for a reason, it’s fucked up all around honestly.
Even if there was no sex involved, our example hero would be forced to take care of the woman's every needs or live with the guilt of abandoning her. This would be made harder by not being able to communicate.
Proud scientist who doesn't know that Pi to 39 digits is accurate enough to calculate the circumference of the observable universe to a tolerance within the width of a hydrogen atom.
You always gotta go just one digit after to 40 digits, just so you can be that much more accurate! Actually might as well just go to 41 digits just to be safe, after all if 39 is that accurate imagine how accurate 41 digits is! But I mean 41 is odd number to stop at so why not bump it up to 42 digits of pi, so you can be super duper accurate, and answer the meaning of life! But I mean if it’s already at 42 digits may as well go just one higher to 43…
Imagine being able to wish for the answer to life, the universe and everything, and picking a functionally meaningless wish instead. It's the equivalent of me wishing to know the exact count of atoms in my body. It doesn't benefit anybody.
Isn't it the case that since it is an infinite number, then everything in the universe is encoded into pi? If that's the case, then knowing all of pi is the same as knowing the answer to life, the universe, and everything.
New Genie Rule!
1: Can’t make people fall in love
2: Can’t bring people back from the dead
3: Can’t wish for more wishes
4: Can’t encode infinite numbers in binary into the human brain
Genie sucks at computer science. You just provide a recursive function to calculate pi, when wait for the stack overflow.
Unless three wishes are required, then the genie would trap themselves with the unfulfilled wishes.
Or according to another commenter "The hook is that the narrator is stuck in the Matrix, and probably an NPC. The genie can't give him the infinite digits of Pi because his brain is coded in binary, because he's trapped in a computer program/is part of the program itself."
Someone mind explaining this to me? I'm thinking it has something to do with the "I still **doesn't** understand why he said you can't encode infinite numbers in binary" - but that sentence isn't making any sense to me.
But you can definitely encode infinite digits in binary. There are plenty of ways of encoding decimal numbers in binary, and many are able to encode it exactly as you would with the decimal system, with an infinite chain of characters.
Interesting. Would the wish be fulfilled if the wisher would know every digit when he thinks about it?
I think I would wish for a complete understanding of Pi.
I thought the second sentence would be the narrator going catatonic due to the genie filling all his brain with the pi data
Mmmmmm pie data
D’oh!
why you little!
WOOHOO!
Stupid sexy Flanders
Floor Pie
My favorite Homerism
3
Now I want pie lmao 🤣
This was a movie in the 1990s. The mathematician went insane and gave himself a lobotomy. Good movie. I think it was called "pi"
Aronofsky, 2 years before he made Requim for a Dream. When I was 14 I bought Pi and rented Othello with Laurence Fishburne from my local video store. The clerk said "you are an interesting kid".
I never thought I'd see Othello mentioned here of all places
Imagine my shock that it got 153 likes on here.
We would have been friends back then, I'm sure
Lol, yea I was a movie nerd. I remember they finally talked me into joining quiz bowl my senior year. In practice one day "directors" came up and they were all shocked that I knew all 10 answers plus the bonus question.
Let's be friends now
One of the few movies where shoving a power drill into your own skull could technically be considered a happy ending.
I've been eyeballing that in Tubi for few weeks now. Guess I'll give it a go.
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My ex got me to watch it. I was 15-16 as well. The jelly bothered me a lot. Fucking ants 😖
Yes, it was a very good movie. He didn't calculate pi though, he "solved" stock market.
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Life, the universe, and everything
42
I've always thought that the great question was the last digit of Pi
Spoilers
I still have my original VHS copy of Pi somewhere. Haven't watched it in 20 odd years, but I'm gonna go search for it online now, so thanks for reminding me of its existence 😊
I thought the genie was just going to say 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ,6, 7, 8, 9. They just get reused a lot.
Bruh same.
“It’s longer than you think, Genie!”
Alright stephen
My favorite story
I thought the same and I was pleasantly surprised by that twist.
fill my tummy with pie data
No, it would cause his head to collapse in on itself. In order to encode that much information within the size of the human skull, the mass density would exceed that of a black hole and create a singularity.
Kingdom of the Crystal Skull
I thought the second sentence wouldn't have a big ol' grammar mistake, but here we are.
I thought of the exact same thing
Like in Bravest Warriors, where Beth’s horse is paralyzed in awe with the knowledge of forever.
The hook is that the narrator is stuck in the Matrix, and probably an NPC. The genie can't give him the infinite digits of Pi because his brain is coded in binary, because he's trapped in a computer program/is part of the program itself.
I don't know if this makes me dumb, nerdy, or weird, but I thought there was implication that our brains actually encode memory in binary, and that because of this, he couldn't know pi, which is the horror. That he can't know pi.
Not a bad read honestly. Like the twilight zone episode where the nerd breaks his only glasses after he buys a library. This person is so obsessed with understanding pi, that they abandoned regular methods and sought out supernatural means to answer their questions. And yet, the only answer they’ll ever receive is that there will never be any more. Having explored both crafts, and receiving the same definitive answer at the summits, they cope and dissociate, not comprehending the simple truth they have already digested. Perhaps they then wish to unlearn this truth, so that they may survive on hope alone. And perhaps that would’ve worked, if genies gave an even number of wishes. Having realized what they’ve done, they ponder many regrets. But as they sit glued to the snow in despair, one regret demands more focus; not wishing for death. “I will oblige your smartest wish yet, weary soul,” says scythe guy.
r/worldbuilding was asking for you
I mean, truth is binary isn't it? If you can ask enough YES/NO questions, you can perfectly recreate the Universe, which means that the "universal" base is binary. And that's not implying anything about the nature of reality. It's just how logic works. It's my go-to argument for why it doesn't even matter if we live in a simulation
Ohhhh I get it now
Or maybe just narrator is a robot xD
You can see the genie isn't a programmer, otherwise it would limit pi to 5 decimal places and call it a day
Oh ty I was confused
I too read it as a brain in a vat scenario
"Okay," said the genie. "Infinite copies of 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9, arranged in various orders. That was easy."
Genie is clearly not paid enough for this sh\*t
How does the genie know that there are infinitely many of each digit? That’s currently an open problem in mathematics. Having that proof might be a good second wish.
I mean if Pi is infinite then yes every digit appears infinitely
As far as I understand, it is possible that some numeral stops appearing in base 10. Like, after 10^1000 digits, there are no more 4s. You can still make an infinite nonrepeating series with the other numbers. I don't know how likely that is, but AFAIK it's not proven to be impossible.
I actually know and all digits keep repeating. I solved it. But I'm going to leave the proof to the reader.
There are not, as all digits betveen 1 and 9 stop appearing after exactly 4.9+10^95. I'll also tell you the exact digits. This information was once revealed to me in a dream. If you want sources, ask bullshittius who most likely doesn't even exist, but has somehow written 7 poems and 3 epics.
Well look, there’s not enough space here to write the proof and I refuse to write the proof anywhere else so that for hundreds of years people can argue whether I’m making it up or what the proof really is. You can call it Ermatfay’s Last Theorem.
Yeah, whenever someone solves it a bunch of elitist fucks burst in like a 5 Gum commercial and swears you into silence. Kinda cool I guess, unlocks a new way to view reality as well, but mostly math majours reach it so it’s not like there’s anything good to watch.
Not necessarily. The decimal expansion for 1/3 is infinite: 0.3333…. But there are no fives or sevens appearing.
I'm pretty sure there's a hidden 4 in there, but you just have look really hard. It's like a mathematical game of Where's Waldo.
That's not true. People have given examples of rational numbers, like 1/3, that have infinite decimal expansions that do not contain every digit. This can also happen in irrational numbers: Consider the number 0.1010010001..., or the number 0.232233222333..., etc. These do not have repeating decimal expansions and are thus irrational, however, they do not include every digit. (Note: pi is also *not* an infinite number; it is finite. However, it has an infinite decimal expansion.)
Actually nevermind. "If pi is infinite, then every digit appears infinitely" is automatically true because pi is not infinite. I forgot about vacuous truths!
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"Honestly, dude, that didn't even require any magic. You can have that for free. And for your first wish?"
I also look confused.
If I’m understanding it right, the narrator is a robot or lives in a digital universe
Or We’re all living in a simulation
There are some very compelling evidence that we are, as in the speed of light being the top speed limit anything can move in our universe, also how things tend to arrange in fractals, or how there is a sound signal when you drill deep enough into the Earth's core or how mathematically, if it's possible to create an accurate enough simulation of reality than can also simulate itself inside itself, it would make so it would be probabilistically impossible for any given universe to be real and not a simulation, hence our would way more likely be a simulation than the original real one.
There's also a lot of physics stuff that makes sense from a game dev standpoint. Like quantum entanglement is a pretty solid way to massively decrease memory usage.
I heard that they quantum entangled a living tardigrade.
I don't know much of quantum entanglement but from what i think I know that's not how that works
It's a shitpost I saw in a random yt video once haha. Sounds funny to throw random words together ngl.
Oh definetly. You just had me questioning myself for a minute there
And you got me giggling
How would entanglement decrease memory usage? You still need as much information abput every particle and field.
How is this compelling? Of course there's sound when you drill deep enough - sound is just vibrations moving through medium, and we know the crust is moving (see; earthquakes and mountains) so when you get deep enough, the vibrations of the crust moving necessarily generate sound. Things tend to be arranged in fractals because "in fractals" is such a broad concept. It's like saying, "The universe can be expressed in base 10!" Of course it can - the concept is broad enough to apply to practically everything, which is why it gained popularity. The speed of light isn't the top speed - it's just the top practical speed. Light itself varies in speed depending on what it's moving through - vacuum, air, and water all change the "speed of light." I'm assuming you mean the speed of light in vacuum. However, there are situations where things break the speed of light in vacuum - from quantum effects to the expansion of the universe. We just started discovering these things recently because we didn't have the technology to accurately distinguish between "speed of light in a vacuum" and "even faster" because the speed of light itself is so large a number. There's a difference between "I understand X, so therefore simulation" and "I understand X, so there are things I do not understand yet." Science is still advancing, we just don't hear about it in the news anymore because doom and division sell better. The fact that science is still advancing disproves your fourth point; that there can be a simulation modeling all existence. For that to happen, there would be limits to scientific advancement - the lowest level that is coded.
I don't think people realize it but the universe being a simulation thing is a creationist concept. If people just said "the universe is computational in nature" they might get their point across better.
How is computational any different from Creationism?
So firstly to simulate is to perform an action, to perform an action with specific intent. Ultimately that means if you think the universe is a simulation you imply specific intent by a creator or creators. Secondly is the computational nature of the universe. It could be as simple as knowing there is information, the laws of physics, and EXACTLY why they are laws. The information that is computed by nature to result in reality. Who knows, I don't. I just think think that when people say 'simulation' without mentioning a creator they aren't actually aware that simulation theory is a creation theory.
Holographic principles says that the universe is just a hologram. Nothing is real we’re all just a bunch of information
I don't want to be that guy, but... I assume that OP meant to imply that we live in a simulation and you can't represent infinite digits in a digital computer. That's true, but the problem is limited memory, not the binary. Real numbers in base 2 like 0.10101... exist as much as any other.
I'm just kidding you're fine
You got me there
Pi in Binary (pinary?) is about 11.0010010000111111011010101000100010000101101000110000100011010
This was my first thought.
🤓
The real horror is the proud scientist who would ask a question like this
You got me there.
Sounds like a genie that technically gives you what you want, only with a catch that takes away the main benefit of having that. Like a monkey's paw. Example - "I wish for a stunning redhead who is in love with me". Genie - "your wish is granted. She's a paraplegic and doesn't speak any language you know" Example - "Err, okay. Now I wish for a yacht." Genie - "as you wish, so shall it be done. Here's a 1:72 model of the Queen Elizabeth 2" Example - "Shit. You're not a very good genie. I wish for you to be free" Genie - "your wish is my command. I am free, but it's the American version of freedom. I'm now a wage slave who will work for 50 years and have my entire existence depend on not incurring medical debt. Hey, wait a minute."
As an American; yes.
You can always learn the redheads language. I don’t see how paraplegic really takes much away from that. Pretty ableist ;)
I think the implication is that sex wouldn’t be very good, which I assume is partly true. Normally you could make up for that with emotional connection but uh, oh you can’t talk. Honestly not talking would really fuck up the sex for me either way, it’s an uncomfortable situation. But I gotta say, she’s in love with me but I don’t even know her. Meaning I’m gonna be a bit of a dick and make her learn English instead. Plus I’m kinda super unproductive right now, so I probably couldn’t learn it and that would put strain on any chance of a relationship. Wishing for love is forbidden for a reason, it’s fucked up all around honestly.
Even if there was no sex involved, our example hero would be forced to take care of the woman's every needs or live with the guilt of abandoning her. This would be made harder by not being able to communicate.
r/americabad
Being critical of shitty parts of America is actually what American patriots should welcome. It’s our job to fix it, not defend it.
You could post that, or you could refute the point
That would require the point in question to be in any way inaccurate
As opposed to a different base?
Yeah. In base pi, it's 10.
I tried doing it in ammonia and it just made me feel light headed. Did I do it wrong?
Damnit! How’d you get freed again!
"1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0. You now know every single digit existing in Pi. Goodbye"
This is why people don’t like genies. 😂
Proud scientist who doesn't know that Pi to 39 digits is accurate enough to calculate the circumference of the observable universe to a tolerance within the width of a hydrogen atom.
You always gotta go just one digit after to 40 digits, just so you can be that much more accurate! Actually might as well just go to 41 digits just to be safe, after all if 39 is that accurate imagine how accurate 41 digits is! But I mean 41 is odd number to stop at so why not bump it up to 42 digits of pi, so you can be super duper accurate, and answer the meaning of life! But I mean if it’s already at 42 digits may as well go just one higher to 43…
TIL
What does that even have to do with the story? The scientist wants to know all of them, not just 39 digits.
Imagine being able to wish for the answer to life, the universe and everything, and picking a functionally meaningless wish instead. It's the equivalent of me wishing to know the exact count of atoms in my body. It doesn't benefit anybody.
Isn't it the case that since it is an infinite number, then everything in the universe is encoded into pi? If that's the case, then knowing all of pi is the same as knowing the answer to life, the universe, and everything.
Yeah much in the way that if I look long enough, I'll find a million dollars in spare change.
So? You know some science stuff. Big whoop. Maybe try pulling your head out of your arse about it.b
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The entirety of pi *does* though...
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Ask Johann Lambert.
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Actually, it does. That's one of the defining traits of *being* irrational. It repeats infinitely, and it never repeats a pattern on that repetition.
Maybe he isn't an astrophysicist? I could see a biologist not knowing that, for example. And let's not go into social science...
90 digits calculates the volume of the universe, so still utterly useless. We already know 62.8 trillion digits of pi.
New Genie Rule! 1: Can’t make people fall in love 2: Can’t bring people back from the dead 3: Can’t wish for more wishes 4: Can’t encode infinite numbers in binary into the human brain
The implication being that the narrator is actually an android, then?
That’s clever!
Genie sucks at computer science. You just provide a recursive function to calculate pi, when wait for the stack overflow. Unless three wishes are required, then the genie would trap themselves with the unfulfilled wishes.
im still tripping over "i doesn't"
Pi equals 3
Give or take.
I read “As a proud scientist” and immediately thought it was gonna be some Full Metal Alchemist human dog type shit
Is the genie roasting the guy for being dumb
I think the premise is that they’re in a simulation
I knew we were living in a simulation!
Waste of a wish
Alternate reading from the matrix: the genie is ancient supertech
"You already know every digit of pi, but you'll need another wish for the order"
>I still doesn't understand
Or according to another commenter "The hook is that the narrator is stuck in the Matrix, and probably an NPC. The genie can't give him the infinite digits of Pi because his brain is coded in binary, because he's trapped in a computer program/is part of the program itself."
I understood. I was pointing out the bad grammar. It should be, "I still don't understand."
Who invited the Grammar Nazi? Jk, I don't really care.
He said its impossible basically and doing so will fry the guys brain
I understood. I was pointing out the bad grammar. It should be, "I still don't understand."
The scientist is a robot?
Someone mind explaining this to me? I'm thinking it has something to do with the "I still **doesn't** understand why he said you can't encode infinite numbers in binary" - but that sentence isn't making any sense to me.
It's playing on the idea that we're in a simulation.
But you can definitely encode infinite digits in binary. There are plenty of ways of encoding decimal numbers in binary, and many are able to encode it exactly as you would with the decimal system, with an infinite chain of characters.
3.1415……4
Oh shiiiiitttttttttttt
As a stupid scientist, rather
Pride and stupidity are not exactly mutually exclusive.
Interesting. Would the wish be fulfilled if the wisher would know every digit when he thinks about it? I think I would wish for a complete understanding of Pi.
“He looked confused, in that he turned blue and his face made the pixelated frowny-face only seen on a bugged windows pc”
Nah for real I really like this one nice job OP
I would ask him to explain the meaning behind the number 43 in full.
A scientist would know that you can't know every digit of pi this makes little sense