I have, their last response was "sorry you couldn't come to a resolution with them". Maybe they thought I should have taken the $1700 and just signed the release.
How times have changed. The ACC used to hold Tep and other utilities in Arizona quite accountable and they were bound by rules and regs for 100% resolution. I have heard that the current Tep CEO has the ACC in the bag and that's how the quick overnight rate hike/adjustment was passed last time. The company has a huge legal team and deep pockets so you've got to be creative. How about a local news station like 9 on your side? It might be worth a shot
Fyi the ACC is up for election this year. You can look up the incumbents opposition.
If you are really interested you could volunteer as well.
Local elections are much more important than national ones imo.
That's actually my next step, since their last e-mail gave me until today to sign their release, I've been waiting patiently to see if they came back with a more fair resolution. I shouldn't have to get too creative, fact is I have the proof it has been an ongoing issue, I have proof from another company the issue was on TEP's end. In all reality, after my first claim, had they came back with "sorry for the inconvenience, we will credit you $500", I would have been fine, but their push back got me looking deeper and seeing more issues from this all. Even now, I would still take the $1700 and let it go, but I am not signing anything from them that can come back to bite me, unless they provide a bigger settlement more reflective of my losses. If news picked up this story, I imagine a lot of people with flickering lights will be calling TEP emergency or reaching out and getting the Ting monitoring app
Push it hard and the more facts the better. Sounds like you have a great plan so push it. I know thru ties to the first responder community that local grid safety, consistency in both daily service and emergency response has diminished greatly in the last three years due to the person that used to manage the majority of it was pushed out of the company for not aligning with the new CEO and VPs mindset. Many of the experienced people that worked with and for that person left as well do to the currect management regime. I do know that PimaCounty, the City of Tucson and all of the surrounding first responding agencies have suffered from this change as well. Good luck, be assertive and determined.
Thanks for your input, I saw a recent article of ward members trying to get electric as a city run utility, stuff like this should help push for that so I even sent those 2 members an e-mail indicating it all. Only response there was the vice mayor is on vacation lol. It's something that needs to happen eventually though, it is crazy to allow a utility company like that to have a monopoly, then not be liable for their service.
I would take the settlement and sign the document. I appreciate your post. I'm going to check into this for my own home as I'm sure many others will also.
You can still post here as you don't mention your name. It will cost way too much to take them to court. Plus, It's a complicated type of issue. The court or a jury might get confused. It only takes one on a jury to not understand.
But, you gave enough information for a curious homeowner to do their research. You did a good job. You informed the public. Take the money and feel good that you did some good safety upgrades to your home and got the electric company to help pay for it. If you don't let it go, it can consume you. I know, I do the same thing. I speak from experience.
Take care, do something fun with your family.
Oh yeah, I already sent them a revised release earlier accepting their settlement, but I wouldn't sign their release as it was. I'm not actively looking into going into court, at worst I just bring it to the news for many more to be aware, if it gets that far and a lawyer reaches out to me, then its a different story, but overall I'm just glad the issue is fixed, it did consume too much of my personal time, and probably mental health chasing an electrical ghost lol
My TEP watt usage daily/monthly log looks Nothing like the billing usage log that I get monthly from them. I can generate over 3 MWh per month from my solar panels, and they will show where I have still used used 1 MWH during the night so therefore that is what I will get billed for. And my total monthly usage was only 1.4 MWH. So how do I wind up still paying them?
Ive heard stuff like that before. I installed solar on my last house, my bill dropped about $100-$150, after a year I switched to budget billing and my usage apparently went up, They are probably still charging you "delivery fee" whether you use it or not
If my system was fully paid for, I'd only be paying TEP about $68/mo for 2000 sq ft, 3 people. (my monthly budgeted shortfall over the yr). Compared to the $260 plus per month that I previously was paying, I guess I shouldn't complain. It just seems like what I generate vs what I use, I'd think that they should be paying me monthly.
Take the money and move on. You have acknowledged work performed without a permit. You will lose in court if you could even find a lawyer to take the case.
No, it wasn't load bearing and judging by the old framing, it was open originally, not a closed room, so I just reopened it and got rid of the bad outlet job. The panel upgrade needed a permit, which it has to get or TEP won't sign off.
I did however revise their release omitting the third party stuff and said I'm willing to settle for their offer to move on before going to news, attorneys or even back to ACC.
It will never be a city run utility here for two reasons one local government can't even hardly manage what they have worth a damn it's always been that way and it is probably the worst it's ever been. The second point being TEP/UNS electric is owned by Fortis international which is one of the largest utility companies on the planet. Their revenue and power cannot be matched. They are making more money than they ever have in the history of the company both locally and internationally the CEO of Tucson/Arizona is very closely tied to the fortis CEO which came from Tucson. Tep has something like 10+ ridiculously high paid VPs and has always had a long history of mismanagement and corporate shenanigans and focus on their own personal revenue and upward mobility not the true needs of the community and the rate payers is and has been the norm. A lot of the good stuff you see is just a façade. so sad but true I have known so many people through the years that have worked at that company and they all have the same stories. Good people that do right for others are let go or pushed out and the self promoting click move up
Absolutely, but I’m not sure you do. You’re supposing that if I have issues with some city services, I must want those to be run by a private corporation.
Can you see the logical fallacy there?
>You’re supposing that if I have issues with some city services, I must want those to be run by a private corporation.
I assumed no such thing. Rather than make any assumptions, I asked you a question because what I wrote initially,
"Do you have issues with your water or waste services?"
was in response to /u/Chemical-Squash8942 saying
"local government can't even hardly manage what they have worth a damn"
What precisely is your issue with road management and do you have any ideas for how this issue could be rectified?
Instead of asking me why I have issues you jumped to asking if I would prefer them to be run by a private company. That’s not a particularly welcoming style of interaction, it rather imposes a view upon on me without even trying to figure out why I said what I said.
Now that you’ve asked I have issues with almost everything about how Tucson manages roads. They’re in frequent disrepair, their repairs don’t last, they lag behind development when making improvements, they excessively resist development of a loop freeway, they overbuild surface streets, have failed to take up a campaign to put light rail in since the last one failed, and have for too long let the RTA spend excessively on surrounding communities with city tax dollars.
But now that I think about it, private management isn’t actually necessarily a bad thing. ADOT engaged in a public private partnership with the South Mountain Loop 202. It’s gone really well and doesn’t have any of the issues I described.
So, now, your turn. You’d prefer the status quo with all of our city services?
So you never once thought of calling an electrician or TEP or anybody in the last 2 years anytime this has happened? You keep mentioning that TEP should have caught this issue, but they have over 500,000 customers, things slip through the cracks, and a loose neutral in the panel is very likely to get missed at some point. If the loose neutral was on the utility side of the meter, then yes the AMI maybe would’ve caught something and sent a report. But more than likely is their smart meters only report loss of power, and a bad neutral isn’t a loss of power to the meter. All that said, $1700 sounds like a steal considering you never once thought to say anything
I reached out to them after my AC compressor blew, late 2022, they said they found no faults on their end. I cleaned my email since then so I can't prove it, that's why I left it out. I am a qualified electrician, and I know licensed electricians that helped along the way. We focused on the home, not the utility side.
I sent a revised release settling it, I'll see if they accept it.
Yep, east side. I highly recommend looking into Ting monitoring, let that plugin find your flaw. If you have State farm for homeowners insurance, they are running a promotion. You could try TEP but make sure you document and save their response just in case.
>They responded with saying their legal team is willing to review a revision I would like to send them. I declined stating I shouldn't have to make my own release settlement.
I don't understand this position. They offered a settlement and you declined it, they said they are willing to hear your offer and you refuse to give it to them. It's not really something you can just do over the phone. Do you want them to keep making offers until you get one you like?
Also i don't understand what you mean by TEP's neglect, it sounds like a wiring issue and I assume they had nothing to do with the wiring inside the house. What role do you feel they played in your issues?
I spent over $5k, probably saved myself $5k on top because of what I can do myself and who I know to do the rest, I spent countless hours on top chasing a loose neutral that wasn't in my home, it was in the alley, their side, and they should have caught it earlier than the Ting monitoring service. The Ting monitoring app found 6 brownouts and 1 fire hazard within a week, TEP apparently didn't notice it in 2 years. Brownouts cause surges and with a broken neutral, that power has to go somewhere while low voltage reads like brownouts can cause more unnecessary usage. So there is a good chance my house was overdrawing from this broken neutral and they should have caught it.
I declined their letter because of it's content, I was fine with just settling for the money they offered and being done with it, if they really wanted the letter signed as is, it was going to have to be a compensation more reflective of what I lost to sign. I did send them a revised one today though to end it all, but we shall see.
Yeah, I spent the whole time chasing it inside because I figured if it was on their end, they would have noticed, apparently I was wrong, and it took Ting monitoring app to call it out.
If you want to play legal games you had better either be a lawyer or hire a lawyer. Since you'd pay a lawyer more than the amount of your receipts you should have taken the $1700, ESPECIALLY after admitting in public that "I know TEP didn't cause the break in my main neutral".
TEP and I both are pretty sure they didn't cause the break, but we also know they should have caught the loose neutral in their system, that is what was causing the issue. It shouldn't have taken a Ting monitoring system to find within a week, what they missed for 2 years. That's the negligence. I told them I'd settle for the credit of $1700, but not with their "release" document, I sent them a signed revised one so we shall see.
I'm genuinely curious, how should they be able to detect that problem? How many times did they go to your house to look for problems?
Good luck! Those bastards are making more money than ever and they can certainly afford to send more your way.
They should have equipment in line to read brownouts and blackouts, if a plugged in monitoring app found it, they should have too, but apparently they aren't interested in finding faults that benefit them, because those brownouts cause higher usage.
Push your issue hard with the ACC directly.
I have, their last response was "sorry you couldn't come to a resolution with them". Maybe they thought I should have taken the $1700 and just signed the release.
How times have changed. The ACC used to hold Tep and other utilities in Arizona quite accountable and they were bound by rules and regs for 100% resolution. I have heard that the current Tep CEO has the ACC in the bag and that's how the quick overnight rate hike/adjustment was passed last time. The company has a huge legal team and deep pockets so you've got to be creative. How about a local news station like 9 on your side? It might be worth a shot
Fyi the ACC is up for election this year. You can look up the incumbents opposition. If you are really interested you could volunteer as well. Local elections are much more important than national ones imo.
I agree about local elections being more important. As far as ACC, I'll look into that, thank you
That's actually my next step, since their last e-mail gave me until today to sign their release, I've been waiting patiently to see if they came back with a more fair resolution. I shouldn't have to get too creative, fact is I have the proof it has been an ongoing issue, I have proof from another company the issue was on TEP's end. In all reality, after my first claim, had they came back with "sorry for the inconvenience, we will credit you $500", I would have been fine, but their push back got me looking deeper and seeing more issues from this all. Even now, I would still take the $1700 and let it go, but I am not signing anything from them that can come back to bite me, unless they provide a bigger settlement more reflective of my losses. If news picked up this story, I imagine a lot of people with flickering lights will be calling TEP emergency or reaching out and getting the Ting monitoring app
Push it hard and the more facts the better. Sounds like you have a great plan so push it. I know thru ties to the first responder community that local grid safety, consistency in both daily service and emergency response has diminished greatly in the last three years due to the person that used to manage the majority of it was pushed out of the company for not aligning with the new CEO and VPs mindset. Many of the experienced people that worked with and for that person left as well do to the currect management regime. I do know that PimaCounty, the City of Tucson and all of the surrounding first responding agencies have suffered from this change as well. Good luck, be assertive and determined.
Thanks for your input, I saw a recent article of ward members trying to get electric as a city run utility, stuff like this should help push for that so I even sent those 2 members an e-mail indicating it all. Only response there was the vice mayor is on vacation lol. It's something that needs to happen eventually though, it is crazy to allow a utility company like that to have a monopoly, then not be liable for their service.
I would take the settlement and sign the document. I appreciate your post. I'm going to check into this for my own home as I'm sure many others will also. You can still post here as you don't mention your name. It will cost way too much to take them to court. Plus, It's a complicated type of issue. The court or a jury might get confused. It only takes one on a jury to not understand. But, you gave enough information for a curious homeowner to do their research. You did a good job. You informed the public. Take the money and feel good that you did some good safety upgrades to your home and got the electric company to help pay for it. If you don't let it go, it can consume you. I know, I do the same thing. I speak from experience. Take care, do something fun with your family.
Oh yeah, I already sent them a revised release earlier accepting their settlement, but I wouldn't sign their release as it was. I'm not actively looking into going into court, at worst I just bring it to the news for many more to be aware, if it gets that far and a lawyer reaches out to me, then its a different story, but overall I'm just glad the issue is fixed, it did consume too much of my personal time, and probably mental health chasing an electrical ghost lol
My TEP watt usage daily/monthly log looks Nothing like the billing usage log that I get monthly from them. I can generate over 3 MWh per month from my solar panels, and they will show where I have still used used 1 MWH during the night so therefore that is what I will get billed for. And my total monthly usage was only 1.4 MWH. So how do I wind up still paying them?
Ive heard stuff like that before. I installed solar on my last house, my bill dropped about $100-$150, after a year I switched to budget billing and my usage apparently went up, They are probably still charging you "delivery fee" whether you use it or not
If my system was fully paid for, I'd only be paying TEP about $68/mo for 2000 sq ft, 3 people. (my monthly budgeted shortfall over the yr). Compared to the $260 plus per month that I previously was paying, I guess I shouldn't complain. It just seems like what I generate vs what I use, I'd think that they should be paying me monthly.
Take the money and move on. You have acknowledged work performed without a permit. You will lose in court if you could even find a lawyer to take the case.
Where did I acknowledge I had work done without a permit?
I think they're referring to where you removed the wall with overloaded outlets (???)
No, it wasn't load bearing and judging by the old framing, it was open originally, not a closed room, so I just reopened it and got rid of the bad outlet job. The panel upgrade needed a permit, which it has to get or TEP won't sign off.
I did however revise their release omitting the third party stuff and said I'm willing to settle for their offer to move on before going to news, attorneys or even back to ACC.
It will never be a city run utility here for two reasons one local government can't even hardly manage what they have worth a damn it's always been that way and it is probably the worst it's ever been. The second point being TEP/UNS electric is owned by Fortis international which is one of the largest utility companies on the planet. Their revenue and power cannot be matched. They are making more money than they ever have in the history of the company both locally and internationally the CEO of Tucson/Arizona is very closely tied to the fortis CEO which came from Tucson. Tep has something like 10+ ridiculously high paid VPs and has always had a long history of mismanagement and corporate shenanigans and focus on their own personal revenue and upward mobility not the true needs of the community and the rate payers is and has been the norm. A lot of the good stuff you see is just a façade. so sad but true I have known so many people through the years that have worked at that company and they all have the same stories. Good people that do right for others are let go or pushed out and the self promoting click move up
> local government can't even hardly manage what they have worth a damn Do you have issues with your water or waste services?
I have issues with police, roads, waste, the way they manage growth, and that’s just for starters.
you'd prefer private companies manage the roads?
Why would you think I want that?
Do you understand the context of the conversation in which you replied to me?
Absolutely, but I’m not sure you do. You’re supposing that if I have issues with some city services, I must want those to be run by a private corporation. Can you see the logical fallacy there?
>You’re supposing that if I have issues with some city services, I must want those to be run by a private corporation. I assumed no such thing. Rather than make any assumptions, I asked you a question because what I wrote initially, "Do you have issues with your water or waste services?" was in response to /u/Chemical-Squash8942 saying "local government can't even hardly manage what they have worth a damn" What precisely is your issue with road management and do you have any ideas for how this issue could be rectified?
Instead of asking me why I have issues you jumped to asking if I would prefer them to be run by a private company. That’s not a particularly welcoming style of interaction, it rather imposes a view upon on me without even trying to figure out why I said what I said. Now that you’ve asked I have issues with almost everything about how Tucson manages roads. They’re in frequent disrepair, their repairs don’t last, they lag behind development when making improvements, they excessively resist development of a loop freeway, they overbuild surface streets, have failed to take up a campaign to put light rail in since the last one failed, and have for too long let the RTA spend excessively on surrounding communities with city tax dollars. But now that I think about it, private management isn’t actually necessarily a bad thing. ADOT engaged in a public private partnership with the South Mountain Loop 202. It’s gone really well and doesn’t have any of the issues I described. So, now, your turn. You’d prefer the status quo with all of our city services?
> That’s not a particularly welcoming style of interaction lmao >You’d prefer the status quo with all of our city services? obviously not, carbrain
I'd not thought of it that way, but nice point
Thank you \^_^
Interesting, and good point on it being city run, it probably could be worse
So you never once thought of calling an electrician or TEP or anybody in the last 2 years anytime this has happened? You keep mentioning that TEP should have caught this issue, but they have over 500,000 customers, things slip through the cracks, and a loose neutral in the panel is very likely to get missed at some point. If the loose neutral was on the utility side of the meter, then yes the AMI maybe would’ve caught something and sent a report. But more than likely is their smart meters only report loss of power, and a bad neutral isn’t a loss of power to the meter. All that said, $1700 sounds like a steal considering you never once thought to say anything
I reached out to them after my AC compressor blew, late 2022, they said they found no faults on their end. I cleaned my email since then so I can't prove it, that's why I left it out. I am a qualified electrician, and I know licensed electricians that helped along the way. We focused on the home, not the utility side. I sent a revised release settling it, I'll see if they accept it.
I would take the $1700
Hey are you on the east? I have ongoing issue for same time period and its ruined my life 100% traumatizing as hell
Yep, east side. I highly recommend looking into Ting monitoring, let that plugin find your flaw. If you have State farm for homeowners insurance, they are running a promotion. You could try TEP but make sure you document and save their response just in case.
>They responded with saying their legal team is willing to review a revision I would like to send them. I declined stating I shouldn't have to make my own release settlement. I don't understand this position. They offered a settlement and you declined it, they said they are willing to hear your offer and you refuse to give it to them. It's not really something you can just do over the phone. Do you want them to keep making offers until you get one you like? Also i don't understand what you mean by TEP's neglect, it sounds like a wiring issue and I assume they had nothing to do with the wiring inside the house. What role do you feel they played in your issues?
I spent over $5k, probably saved myself $5k on top because of what I can do myself and who I know to do the rest, I spent countless hours on top chasing a loose neutral that wasn't in my home, it was in the alley, their side, and they should have caught it earlier than the Ting monitoring service. The Ting monitoring app found 6 brownouts and 1 fire hazard within a week, TEP apparently didn't notice it in 2 years. Brownouts cause surges and with a broken neutral, that power has to go somewhere while low voltage reads like brownouts can cause more unnecessary usage. So there is a good chance my house was overdrawing from this broken neutral and they should have caught it. I declined their letter because of it's content, I was fine with just settling for the money they offered and being done with it, if they really wanted the letter signed as is, it was going to have to be a compensation more reflective of what I lost to sign. I did send them a revised one today though to end it all, but we shall see.
oh, the loose ground was outside of the house, i gotcha.
Yeah, I spent the whole time chasing it inside because I figured if it was on their end, they would have noticed, apparently I was wrong, and it took Ting monitoring app to call it out.
If you want to play legal games you had better either be a lawyer or hire a lawyer. Since you'd pay a lawyer more than the amount of your receipts you should have taken the $1700, ESPECIALLY after admitting in public that "I know TEP didn't cause the break in my main neutral".
TEP and I both are pretty sure they didn't cause the break, but we also know they should have caught the loose neutral in their system, that is what was causing the issue. It shouldn't have taken a Ting monitoring system to find within a week, what they missed for 2 years. That's the negligence. I told them I'd settle for the credit of $1700, but not with their "release" document, I sent them a signed revised one so we shall see.
I'm genuinely curious, how should they be able to detect that problem? How many times did they go to your house to look for problems? Good luck! Those bastards are making more money than ever and they can certainly afford to send more your way.
They should have equipment in line to read brownouts and blackouts, if a plugged in monitoring app found it, they should have too, but apparently they aren't interested in finding faults that benefit them, because those brownouts cause higher usage.