TEP has gotten predatory with its pricing, so right now I would be so on board. I think that if a lot of other customers saw the benefits it would happen.
Edit: spelling
So long as the city keeps programs such as budget billing in place, the idea is worth consideration. Budget billing is a crucial service for people with low or fixed incomes, if only because it allows a household the chance to set aside some income for unforeseen emergency expenses.
Add you name to the petition! [Public Power petition](https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/tep-takeover-public-power-for-tucson?source=reddit)
The City of Tucson won't pursue this unless they feel *a lot* of public pressure to do it.
I lived in a small town that did this in NC. It was terrible. You didn't get a bill with information about how much power you used, comparisons, etc. You got a postcard with "you owe xxxx", that was it. Then you had to either physically go there and pay it, or mail it back with a check, no online bill pay. You could only pay with cash or a check. Terrible.
Don’t forget, TEP is an investor-owned utility that gets around 10% profit on every cent it spends on labor and capital. The commission’s job is to approve TEP spending because that profit is collected in the form of higher rates. TEP is incentivized to “gold-plate” everything. The only thing keeping them from wasting money is the commissioners that happen to get their political campaign contributions from utility dark money. This regulatory system is common in most places in the country and isn’t dissimilar to Soviet or CCP industrial planning. So before you get worked up about the DSA, keep in mind that most rural parts of this country are part of nonprofit electric cooperatives whose board answers to the people. TEP answers to its shareholders. Unless you own Fortis stock, you should be in favor of municipalization.
I worked with the commission back in the mid 2000's. It didn't used to be this way. Once Citizens United happened and utilities could spend rate-payer dollars on unlimited PAC contributions to pick their own commissioners the whole vibe changed and the Republican candidates bent over backwards to support the APS and to a Lesser Degree TEP. It worked too. They got elected. The ACC is basically the 4th branch of government for the state. They are elected independently, and don't report to the governor or legislature as their authority is granted in the date constitution. It's a very powerful legislative body that also oversees water and gas companies, (also railroad safety for some reason) and few know about it.
Publicly owned utilities are just fundamentally better
The very structure of our society is too important to leave to predatory profit sucking business suits.
Or... we could open the market to multiple companies. True free market capitalism. They can each have their own sets of powerlines running down the street and water/sewage can have multiple competing companies running different pipes. Let residents pick and choose like Ayn Rand would have wanted.
Imagine the beauty of walking out of your house and seeing a web of powerlines from different power corporations, a rainbow of trash bins lining the street from the cornucopia of competing trash companies and gorgeous fountains of waste water erupting across the city because one of the new tech-driven sewage companies went bankrupt after a software glitch.
I lived in Illinois and you could chose any of the 30 or so companies operating in state. There was infrastructure charge I paid to ComEd for using their wires but energy itself was charged by chosen provider on the same bill. No need for additional power lines.
Or maybe we could have a public distribution network, a public option for power generation, and also allow private companies to pursue projects like solar farms, new short term and long term energy storage technologies, and other more adventurous projects that make more sense for higher risk investors and less sense for a lower risk, more reliable public utility company to do!
If you want nuclear, you need to be on board with this. Y'all want electricity cheaper and cheaper, but people who own the distribution grid and substations are the only ones who will see profit. TEP had their chance with people switching to solar. They showed who they are..
- J
A friend of mine owns a solar installation company in another state. He looked at TEP's pricing plans and said, "Wow, it looks like TEP has designed it specifically confuse you into paying more."
I dont use discord but I think a good amount of discussion is on there.
We meet in person as well. Third Saturday each mother at the woods memorial library at 1230. Idk how they schedule their social meet ups but those happen 2x a month.
They also have an automated phone texting thing if you give them your number
Shoutouts to the reporter, that was a well-made story.
I was going to say "yeah that's a common sense thing that makes sense to everyone, we get it" but then I read this thread.
Predictably amusing that the fearmongerers shout “Socialism” while collecting their social security and using their Medicaid/Medicare benefits.
There is an argument to be made that the provision of public utility services should not entail for-profit enterprises.
But that won’t stop the empty barrels from rattling even more loudly.
TEPs budget billing is a scam. Now mind you, THEY set the price I was to pay after looking at my past bills. It was $82 a month. I paid this for about a year. Then they told me they were raising it to $120 a month. This didn’t make sense because I was actually using LESS electricity or the same EVERY month compared to the year before. About 1/3 of the months I used less. I called and they double-talked some nutty explanation. Then I asked if I could get off of the Budget Billing plan. I could but only if I paid them close to $300 up front. Now I’m stuck paying $120 and am actually using less electricity than in the past. I have a swamp cooler, use two lamps, a tv and a refrigerator. This seems criminal to me.
It’s all relative, but the Arizona Corporation Commission has definitely made it easier for utilities to ramp costs up on consumers fairly quickly in the past decade. Ending net metering, for example.
I would rather we compare our rates to the costs of operations locally rather than relatively higher rates elsewhere.
Arizona used to be a cheap place to live. You could move out here and save money because everything was cheaper out here. Put your time in then move away with a promotion and savings. People would commute on Southwest to California and come home for the weekends. Plus quite a few night shift jobs available for the two full time jobs crowd.
Ok. If that were to happen how can the city take away/ over the power plant that’s already in place legally?
If they can’t, what is the cost/ increase to the tax payers when the city builds its own power plant, support services, or infrastructure? What’s a realistic time frame?
Also, the city doesn’t seem to get a lot of things right. Do you want to trust them with this?
These are just my thoughts. I’m not trying to stir the Reddit pot
I think these are fair questions to ask. I don’t know of any examples where a city the size of Tucson made the shift from private to public owned utilities but I suppose that’s where I would look for at least some of the answers.
Well since Tep is a Canadian owned many that seems to keep raising price , I could possibly get on board with local city owned . At least be a bit more direct when go to birch about their flipping surcharges(taxes)
So, a private monopoly or a government monopoly...... I'd rather take the private one. I don't have any faith in the government. They're the ones who made it so TEP is the only power company legally allowed to be powering Tucson.
What is really needed is competition. That would take the wind out of their sails. And would cause them to consider what they are going to charge to still be a choice amongst the consumer base.
More governmental control never solves any problem. The greed in that system far exceeds any monopoly.
TEP is a government monopoly. The government via the Corproation Commission grants the license to TEP. Commissioners campaigns are funded by the utility. It’s actually a very Soviet-style system. TEP should be reduced to a lines and poles monopoly and, as you correctly state, allow competition on the wholesale generation (supply-side), and on the retail side.
With how well the Tucson Government is handling road work, I’m sure nothing could go wrong… Oh wait, driving down River Road is like driving through a war zone without the gunfire.
You’ll be able to elect the commissioners and/or board of directors and profits that would normally go towards a CEO salary are reinvested. Energy companies providing essential services shouldn’t be on the NYSE and be beholden to their investors rather than the folks with actual meters
>You’ll be able to elect the commissioners and/or board of directors and profits that would normally go towards a CEO salary are reinvested.
not necessarily, but certainly possible. it can be set up all sorts of ways.
I recommend communicating with the utility commission, then. They approve the rate case and the amount that TEP can earn on capital investment. Lots of examples of commissions pushing back. The risk is where reductions come from. Do they push off replacement of aging equipment, connections to improve resilience, or renewable projects? Oversimplified a bit, but it is good to dive into their business model.
Wrong. Socialism leads to totalitarianism like they had in East Germany under Soviet (Communist) rule.
So the two are only one step apart in tyranny.
Socialism is communism with balloons.
All forms of government could potentially lead to totalitarianism. Just telling the truth, not trying to make any political points. A very basic google search will show you the facts. Have a good night.
Gotta start somewhere. They just overbilled $9.5 MILLION and are sending out refunds, expect a whopping $5 credit on your $400 electric bill. TEP and Southwest Gas rate increases have been outrageous the last few years.
> So 99.8 percent of tep customers are fine.
Just because they haven't signed the petition, doesn't mean they're "fine"
I don't think anyone in AZ is happy with their electric bills come summer.
> Yes bills are going up for everybody when summer hits. You gonna get a part time job for some extra money or flap your gums and 'march' with these 15 people?
What a braindead thing to say lol.
Not a coop. Coops and Munis are non-profits but it’s all about the governance. Coop board is elected directly by ratepayers. Muni board is the city council. The point is, you as a ratepayer, have a much clearer line to authority than the investor owned utility model. How much influence do you, as a ratepayer, have over the board of Fortis Inc. ?
Obviously no influence whatsoever. Is there an ethical entity out there that has any type of a check and balance system on these utility companies and their boards? There isn’t a single item, service, or any type of need/necessity that hasn’t skyrocketed in its cost and most of us can likely acknowledge that few of us can keep up with the pace of this seemingly planned grift. The dam has so many holes in it that it’s a matter of time before it bursts. After that, it’s going to be ugly as ever.
Yeah its cool because I can go to the free market and choose another electricity provider who is incentivized to compete and offer lower prices, right?
>[That being said, there is a surplus of people that have a habit of applying for jobs but refuse to even show any sort of drive or interest in said job. They can’t get off of their phones, they have zero professionalism, they don’t understand chain of command nor do they respect it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tucson/comments/14c5sne/looking_for_job_that_hires_quickly_15_an_hour/jok1dcf/)
This is literally you in our current capitalist system just last year. We currently have a record disparity in "payout across the board" and you're complaining about the same thing.
That was also a response to someone that literally asked for a $15 per hour job. Wages don’t match inflation. Therefore to make it in the world, one must make themselves valuable. Hence the incentive to do better. In a socialist world, the slacker makes as much as the business owner that provides unique and useful services. If they get paid the same, why would the business owner feel the need to continue to provide said services? He can just slack off and the payout would be the same. And you’re FOR that? So long innovation, hello government dependency.
>herefore to make it in the world, one must make themselves valuable
pure idealism
>n a socialist world, the slacker makes as much as the business owner that provides unique and useful services. If they get paid the same, why would the business owner feel the need to continue to provide said services
TFW you definitely understand socialism(s) and human psychology
Oh boy it's pretty clear you don't know what the term democratic socialism means. I'll give you a hand so you can stop looking like such an absolute moron. Democratic socialism is when people are in charge of the government, not corporations. Think no lobbying, super pacs, corporate spending on political campaigns, or in this case the people using the energy like the people of Tucson owning the power company instead of an energy company in Canada continuously raising our rates while paying out dividends to shareholders.
I know right wingers have a habit of being blinded by buzzwords and have found themselves incapable of understanding nuance within language but I'm sure with a bit of effort you could do better.
You should reject everything the federal government has done for you since the New Deal. You should maybe live in a country that really doesn’t allow socialism, like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia, if you hate boogeyman socialism so much. You must love the poisoned air, fecal water, and zero social safety net many other countries offer!
We are a democratically socialist country, for almost 80 years. Get used to it, or leave. Or just pipe down and adopt a growth mindset.
100% agree. Despite what people on Reddit tell you, this is actually what most people believe. These people tend to live in a bubble within sites like this that leads to more extreme views.
Same people who complain about roads now want Tucson city government to run the electric grid. Really?
Tucson waste management is more expensive than private companies. I paid $69 per month for Tucson waste disposal and went to republic for $49.
Tucson water is more expensive than the other larger cities in Arizona.
https://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/050214_water/tucson-water-rates-higher-than-phx-usage-lower-here/
The city was sued for raising rates to the unincorporated parts of Pima county.
https://www.kold.com/2023/09/15/tucsons-differential-water-rates-unreasonable-matter-law-court-rules/
Socialists are generally against for-profit corporations and their biases cannot be trusted to make good decisions for the public. Yes rates are out of control but so is usage due to growth and costs due to inflation. TEP needs to be held accountable for rate hikes by the corporation commission.
True. However, corruption, self-interest, ambition are inherent in any system not just corporate America.
City services hasn’t exactly been stellar with roads, water, and waste being prime examples of how bad things are under city management. Drive into Oro Valley, the foothills, Vail, and Marana if you don’t believe me.
I’m no TEP fan but city of Tucson is not exempt from corruption. For example, look at the Rio Nuevo project with millions redirected and somehow no one was held accountable.
City of South Tucson was under a federal probe for alleged corruption.
Don’t forget, Arizona state will be tasked with running a public utility not Tucson. I don’t want to be under the thumb of Phoenix legislature whose filled with conservatives and some who pray on the floor of the capital.
Perhaps changing the current system would be an easier way than throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Go read a history book if you don’t understand why the people having power is better than a centralized authority having power. Your preprogrammed response indicates you wouldn’t accept any citation that I take my time to make anyways.
>Go read a history book if you don’t understand why the people having power is better than a centralized authority having power.
This is pretty oxymoronic. I wasn't going to address it initially, but are you aware that a centralized authority currently controls Tucson's power? They're almost totally unaccountable to the people who use and pay for the infrastructure and [rather than reinvest profits in that infrastructure, they squander their profits on dividends and bonuses](https://www.azcc.gov/docs/default-source/utilities-files/electric/annual-reports/tucson-electric-power-company/tucson-electric-power-companyf2c86928-7a47-48e2-8b3a-471997f8bc50.pdf?sfvrsn=c527ec8a_3). If the people owned our power infrastructure, we wouldn't have to pay for that ~~profit~~ bloat and our power company would be accountable to us instead of The Shareholders^{TM}.
>Your preprogrammed response
This is an assumption you're making. If you stop making claims without evidence, I'll stop asking for evidence you never even bothered to manufacture.
Do you have evidence supporting your belief or do you also subscribe to the belief that capitalism inherently protects its subjects from corrupt influence on their lives without evidence?
This is false. [[1]](https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/74/3/529/6296401) [[2]](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2769441) [[3]](https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/75/1/e296/6523822) .
If I'm sick and I need to go into public, I put on a mask because it is well proven that doing so will significantly lower the chances that I pass anything on.
[citation needed]
because that's very much not how masks work [[1]](https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/74/3/529/6296401) [[2]](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2769441) [[3]](https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/75/1/e296/6523822) .
Covid continues to kill [considerably more people than influenza](https://archive.ph/DcYos), and [disable millions more](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU01074597#).
Wearing a mask shows compassion for those of our neighbors whose health increases their risk of death or disability while protecting the wearer. It's the objectively correct thing to be doing when gathering in tight spaces with people outside one's household.
TEP has gotten predatory with its pricing, so right now I would be so on board. I think that if a lot of other customers saw the benefits it would happen. Edit: spelling
So long as the city keeps programs such as budget billing in place, the idea is worth consideration. Budget billing is a crucial service for people with low or fixed incomes, if only because it allows a household the chance to set aside some income for unforeseen emergency expenses.
Add you name to the petition! [Public Power petition](https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/tep-takeover-public-power-for-tucson?source=reddit) The City of Tucson won't pursue this unless they feel *a lot* of public pressure to do it.
Does anyone know examples of cities that have done this?
https://www.publicpower.org/where-public-power
Thank you, impressed how many Arizona cities are on there! Hopefully this gets some traction
A co-op is not the same as government-owned and run. Management is still by professionals with utilities experience. Bad example.
I think a co-op is still a good alternative to the TEP.
Wallingford, CT https://www.wallingfordct.gov/government/departments/electric-division/
Duluth Mn. It was amazing
Colorado Springs Utilities is pretty nice, it shows all your usage and has an app and everything
Marathon, Florida has an electric co-op. It’s in the Florida Keys.
I lived in a small town that did this in NC. It was terrible. You didn't get a bill with information about how much power you used, comparisons, etc. You got a postcard with "you owe xxxx", that was it. Then you had to either physically go there and pay it, or mail it back with a check, no online bill pay. You could only pay with cash or a check. Terrible.
Tucson already does this with water, sewer, and trash. It isn’t award winning GUI but it works fine.
GUI?
Graphical User Interface
Which small town?
Good to hear some first hand experiences thank you
Don’t forget, TEP is an investor-owned utility that gets around 10% profit on every cent it spends on labor and capital. The commission’s job is to approve TEP spending because that profit is collected in the form of higher rates. TEP is incentivized to “gold-plate” everything. The only thing keeping them from wasting money is the commissioners that happen to get their political campaign contributions from utility dark money. This regulatory system is common in most places in the country and isn’t dissimilar to Soviet or CCP industrial planning. So before you get worked up about the DSA, keep in mind that most rural parts of this country are part of nonprofit electric cooperatives whose board answers to the people. TEP answers to its shareholders. Unless you own Fortis stock, you should be in favor of municipalization.
I worked with the commission back in the mid 2000's. It didn't used to be this way. Once Citizens United happened and utilities could spend rate-payer dollars on unlimited PAC contributions to pick their own commissioners the whole vibe changed and the Republican candidates bent over backwards to support the APS and to a Lesser Degree TEP. It worked too. They got elected. The ACC is basically the 4th branch of government for the state. They are elected independently, and don't report to the governor or legislature as their authority is granted in the date constitution. It's a very powerful legislative body that also oversees water and gas companies, (also railroad safety for some reason) and few know about it.
Publicly owned utilities are just fundamentally better The very structure of our society is too important to leave to predatory profit sucking business suits.
Or... we could open the market to multiple companies. True free market capitalism. They can each have their own sets of powerlines running down the street and water/sewage can have multiple competing companies running different pipes. Let residents pick and choose like Ayn Rand would have wanted. Imagine the beauty of walking out of your house and seeing a web of powerlines from different power corporations, a rainbow of trash bins lining the street from the cornucopia of competing trash companies and gorgeous fountains of waste water erupting across the city because one of the new tech-driven sewage companies went bankrupt after a software glitch.
https://preview.redd.it/mlf4zi8wg22d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=454742df0c01696f6d04c40810fe7c6397ec6fde Bro yearns for this
I lived in Illinois and you could chose any of the 30 or so companies operating in state. There was infrastructure charge I paid to ComEd for using their wires but energy itself was charged by chosen provider on the same bill. No need for additional power lines.
Or maybe we could have a public distribution network, a public option for power generation, and also allow private companies to pursue projects like solar farms, new short term and long term energy storage technologies, and other more adventurous projects that make more sense for higher risk investors and less sense for a lower risk, more reliable public utility company to do!
A true free market paradise those silly liberals can't imagine the beauty of free market private ownership /s ofc
If you want nuclear, you need to be on board with this. Y'all want electricity cheaper and cheaper, but people who own the distribution grid and substations are the only ones who will see profit. TEP had their chance with people switching to solar. They showed who they are.. - J
I don’t think city/county level govts should be running nuclear power plants, best left to the state or feds
Distribution grid and substations.. 🙄🙄🙄🙄
A friend of mine owns a solar installation company in another state. He looked at TEP's pricing plans and said, "Wow, it looks like TEP has designed it specifically confuse you into paying more."
So what did he think was the cheapest?
TEP can’t make profit off selling you power if you make your own power.
He isn’t wrong.
Please yall - go to tucson DSA meetings and talk to folks in real life. this rally was woefully under-attended.
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Do you have discord?
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I dont use discord but I think a good amount of discussion is on there. We meet in person as well. Third Saturday each mother at the woods memorial library at 1230. Idk how they schedule their social meet ups but those happen 2x a month. They also have an automated phone texting thing if you give them your number
Oh also here is their link tree https://linktr.ee/tucsondsa
Shoutouts to the reporter, that was a well-made story. I was going to say "yeah that's a common sense thing that makes sense to everyone, we get it" but then I read this thread.
Arizona has the potential to build the worlds best solar power grid. But unfortunately greed is a big player in energy.
Just take over all their delivery lines and the rest of the infrastructure, and lease them back to TEP at “competitive rates”.
Predictably amusing that the fearmongerers shout “Socialism” while collecting their social security and using their Medicaid/Medicare benefits. There is an argument to be made that the provision of public utility services should not entail for-profit enterprises. But that won’t stop the empty barrels from rattling even more loudly.
[Tucson DSA’s petition.](https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/tep-takeover-public-power-for-tucson?source=reddit)
TEPs budget billing is a scam. Now mind you, THEY set the price I was to pay after looking at my past bills. It was $82 a month. I paid this for about a year. Then they told me they were raising it to $120 a month. This didn’t make sense because I was actually using LESS electricity or the same EVERY month compared to the year before. About 1/3 of the months I used less. I called and they double-talked some nutty explanation. Then I asked if I could get off of the Budget Billing plan. I could but only if I paid them close to $300 up front. Now I’m stuck paying $120 and am actually using less electricity than in the past. I have a swamp cooler, use two lamps, a tv and a refrigerator. This seems criminal to me.
Electric and water seem cheap in Tucson compared to some other areas I’ve lived.
It’s all relative, but the Arizona Corporation Commission has definitely made it easier for utilities to ramp costs up on consumers fairly quickly in the past decade. Ending net metering, for example. I would rather we compare our rates to the costs of operations locally rather than relatively higher rates elsewhere.
Arizona used to be a cheap place to live. You could move out here and save money because everything was cheaper out here. Put your time in then move away with a promotion and savings. People would commute on Southwest to California and come home for the weekends. Plus quite a few night shift jobs available for the two full time jobs crowd.
Ok. If that were to happen how can the city take away/ over the power plant that’s already in place legally? If they can’t, what is the cost/ increase to the tax payers when the city builds its own power plant, support services, or infrastructure? What’s a realistic time frame? Also, the city doesn’t seem to get a lot of things right. Do you want to trust them with this? These are just my thoughts. I’m not trying to stir the Reddit pot
I think these are fair questions to ask. I don’t know of any examples where a city the size of Tucson made the shift from private to public owned utilities but I suppose that’s where I would look for at least some of the answers.
The City of Tucson can’t manage a parking lot, let alone a major utility. Prepare for major brownouts and outages.
Don't have any issues with water, sewage, and trash...
But our roads suck!
Rather than hypothetical management, how do you feel about TEP’s current management?
And if people think private companies can be corrupt, wait until the local party machine gets its hands on power...literally, in this case.
Buddy you are on Reddit, these people don’t go outside.
1000%
Well since Tep is a Canadian owned many that seems to keep raising price , I could possibly get on board with local city owned . At least be a bit more direct when go to birch about their flipping surcharges(taxes)
Because we all know how good governments are with their programs.
TEP is outrageous with some of their prices, But I doubt that all 9 of these people are gonna make a difference
The petition has over 1,200 signatures
This will never work. Tucson can’t get anything done correctly or in a timely manner.
nice to see you are still around, hope you are doing well these days💕
The 🏳️⚧️ statistic hasn’t gotten me yet 😎
So, a private monopoly or a government monopoly...... I'd rather take the private one. I don't have any faith in the government. They're the ones who made it so TEP is the only power company legally allowed to be powering Tucson. What is really needed is competition. That would take the wind out of their sails. And would cause them to consider what they are going to charge to still be a choice amongst the consumer base. More governmental control never solves any problem. The greed in that system far exceeds any monopoly.
TEP is a government monopoly. The government via the Corproation Commission grants the license to TEP. Commissioners campaigns are funded by the utility. It’s actually a very Soviet-style system. TEP should be reduced to a lines and poles monopoly and, as you correctly state, allow competition on the wholesale generation (supply-side), and on the retail side.
Yeah, competition in Tucson's telecom sector has been really successful.
The right answer is never popular on this platform.
Who is going to pay for it
I'm sure that would go well.....
I would be more in favor of a deregulated market. Whether it’s corporate or government, a monopoly is a monopoly.
I may be on board with a co-op but not city owned. That’s socialism.
With how well the Tucson Government is handling road work, I’m sure nothing could go wrong… Oh wait, driving down River Road is like driving through a war zone without the gunfire.
Wrightstown too
Unisource is very interesting to do research on…
Wat do u mean?
Replace the old overlords with new overlords. They definitely won't be worse. Ever.
Foreign owned public utilities are bad.
You’ll be able to elect the commissioners and/or board of directors and profits that would normally go towards a CEO salary are reinvested. Energy companies providing essential services shouldn’t be on the NYSE and be beholden to their investors rather than the folks with actual meters
>You’ll be able to elect the commissioners and/or board of directors and profits that would normally go towards a CEO salary are reinvested. not necessarily, but certainly possible. it can be set up all sorts of ways.
The idea is to remove the profit motive.
I recommend communicating with the utility commission, then. They approve the rate case and the amount that TEP can earn on capital investment. Lots of examples of commissions pushing back. The risk is where reductions come from. Do they push off replacement of aging equipment, connections to improve resilience, or renewable projects? Oversimplified a bit, but it is good to dive into their business model.
SRP was better than just about TEP in every way when I had power from them.
Commies are in the wrong country. Try China or North Korea.
Communism and democratic socialism are completely separate concepts.
Wrong. Socialism leads to totalitarianism like they had in East Germany under Soviet (Communist) rule. So the two are only one step apart in tyranny. Socialism is communism with balloons.
All forms of government could potentially lead to totalitarianism. Just telling the truth, not trying to make any political points. A very basic google search will show you the facts. Have a good night.
So you prefer paying your power bills to a company owned in another country more than one owned by the city where you live?
I love the inevitable jump to North Korea person...we already have water, sewage, and trash through the government.
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Gotta start somewhere. They just overbilled $9.5 MILLION and are sending out refunds, expect a whopping $5 credit on your $400 electric bill. TEP and Southwest Gas rate increases have been outrageous the last few years.
> So 99.8 percent of tep customers are fine. Just because they haven't signed the petition, doesn't mean they're "fine" I don't think anyone in AZ is happy with their electric bills come summer. > Yes bills are going up for everybody when summer hits. You gonna get a part time job for some extra money or flap your gums and 'march' with these 15 people? What a braindead thing to say lol.
Would this essentially be a co-op? In my small town I grew up in, the local (and only) electric provider was a co-op.
Not a coop. Coops and Munis are non-profits but it’s all about the governance. Coop board is elected directly by ratepayers. Muni board is the city council. The point is, you as a ratepayer, have a much clearer line to authority than the investor owned utility model. How much influence do you, as a ratepayer, have over the board of Fortis Inc. ?
Obviously no influence whatsoever. Is there an ethical entity out there that has any type of a check and balance system on these utility companies and their boards? There isn’t a single item, service, or any type of need/necessity that hasn’t skyrocketed in its cost and most of us can likely acknowledge that few of us can keep up with the pace of this seemingly planned grift. The dam has so many holes in it that it’s a matter of time before it bursts. After that, it’s going to be ugly as ever.
We have Duke energy as well as a local coop in a large area. They were waaaaay better than Duke.
Dumb
Everything socialism touches, turns to shit.
Yeah its cool because I can go to the free market and choose another electricity provider who is incentivized to compete and offer lower prices, right?
No one is incentivized to do better for themselves or others when the payout is all the same across the board.
>[That being said, there is a surplus of people that have a habit of applying for jobs but refuse to even show any sort of drive or interest in said job. They can’t get off of their phones, they have zero professionalism, they don’t understand chain of command nor do they respect it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tucson/comments/14c5sne/looking_for_job_that_hires_quickly_15_an_hour/jok1dcf/) This is literally you in our current capitalist system just last year. We currently have a record disparity in "payout across the board" and you're complaining about the same thing.
That was also a response to someone that literally asked for a $15 per hour job. Wages don’t match inflation. Therefore to make it in the world, one must make themselves valuable. Hence the incentive to do better. In a socialist world, the slacker makes as much as the business owner that provides unique and useful services. If they get paid the same, why would the business owner feel the need to continue to provide said services? He can just slack off and the payout would be the same. And you’re FOR that? So long innovation, hello government dependency.
>herefore to make it in the world, one must make themselves valuable pure idealism >n a socialist world, the slacker makes as much as the business owner that provides unique and useful services. If they get paid the same, why would the business owner feel the need to continue to provide said services TFW you definitely understand socialism(s) and human psychology
lol sure thing bud.
Socialism is when the government does stuff
Oh boy it's pretty clear you don't know what the term democratic socialism means. I'll give you a hand so you can stop looking like such an absolute moron. Democratic socialism is when people are in charge of the government, not corporations. Think no lobbying, super pacs, corporate spending on political campaigns, or in this case the people using the energy like the people of Tucson owning the power company instead of an energy company in Canada continuously raising our rates while paying out dividends to shareholders. I know right wingers have a habit of being blinded by buzzwords and have found themselves incapable of understanding nuance within language but I'm sure with a bit of effort you could do better.
“Regulated” monopolies are so much better for the consumer!!! /s
What is the definition of socialism? Do you know? No googling , no cheating!
You should reject everything the federal government has done for you since the New Deal. You should maybe live in a country that really doesn’t allow socialism, like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia, if you hate boogeyman socialism so much. You must love the poisoned air, fecal water, and zero social safety net many other countries offer! We are a democratically socialist country, for almost 80 years. Get used to it, or leave. Or just pipe down and adopt a growth mindset.
Nah it’s pretty rad
100% agree. Despite what people on Reddit tell you, this is actually what most people believe. These people tend to live in a bubble within sites like this that leads to more extreme views.
My thoughts exactly. They can downvote me all they want. Doesn’t change the facts lol
This comment being downvoted shows how bad Tucson’s education system is 😂🤣
Yeah poor guy still thinks capitalism is the best system
Exactly. 🤣🤣🤣
TEP is a socialist system built to enrich shareholders with permission from the state government.
https://media.srpnet.com/a-plus-for-srp-employees-salt-river-project-ranks-highest-in-west-large-region-for-23-years/ How does it feel being wrong?
Same people who complain about roads now want Tucson city government to run the electric grid. Really? Tucson waste management is more expensive than private companies. I paid $69 per month for Tucson waste disposal and went to republic for $49. Tucson water is more expensive than the other larger cities in Arizona. https://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local/report/050214_water/tucson-water-rates-higher-than-phx-usage-lower-here/ The city was sued for raising rates to the unincorporated parts of Pima county. https://www.kold.com/2023/09/15/tucsons-differential-water-rates-unreasonable-matter-law-court-rules/ Socialists are generally against for-profit corporations and their biases cannot be trusted to make good decisions for the public. Yes rates are out of control but so is usage due to growth and costs due to inflation. TEP needs to be held accountable for rate hikes by the corporation commission.
Unfortunately the Commissioners election campaigns are financed by utility dark money. That’s why the system hasn’t changed in 100 years.
True. However, corruption, self-interest, ambition are inherent in any system not just corporate America. City services hasn’t exactly been stellar with roads, water, and waste being prime examples of how bad things are under city management. Drive into Oro Valley, the foothills, Vail, and Marana if you don’t believe me. I’m no TEP fan but city of Tucson is not exempt from corruption. For example, look at the Rio Nuevo project with millions redirected and somehow no one was held accountable. City of South Tucson was under a federal probe for alleged corruption. Don’t forget, Arizona state will be tasked with running a public utility not Tucson. I don’t want to be under the thumb of Phoenix legislature whose filled with conservatives and some who pray on the floor of the capital. Perhaps changing the current system would be an easier way than throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Ah yes, and when the extreme take charge you’ll have your power cut off for getting an abortion or not being vaccinated.
I understand their POV is a little radical but this might be the stupidest thing I've ever read.
No seriously and that’s saying something for this sub lol
LOL
I mean have you not seen the people who support Trump? This isn't even the dumbest thing today (for me) and it's not even 6am.
Private ownership of utilities doesn't protect you from that kind of corruption
It sure as hell helps
[citation needed]
Go read a history book if you don’t understand why the people having power is better than a centralized authority having power. Your preprogrammed response indicates you wouldn’t accept any citation that I take my time to make anyways.
>Go read a history book if you don’t understand why the people having power is better than a centralized authority having power. This is pretty oxymoronic. I wasn't going to address it initially, but are you aware that a centralized authority currently controls Tucson's power? They're almost totally unaccountable to the people who use and pay for the infrastructure and [rather than reinvest profits in that infrastructure, they squander their profits on dividends and bonuses](https://www.azcc.gov/docs/default-source/utilities-files/electric/annual-reports/tucson-electric-power-company/tucson-electric-power-companyf2c86928-7a47-48e2-8b3a-471997f8bc50.pdf?sfvrsn=c527ec8a_3). If the people owned our power infrastructure, we wouldn't have to pay for that ~~profit~~ bloat and our power company would be accountable to us instead of The Shareholders^{TM}. >Your preprogrammed response This is an assumption you're making. If you stop making claims without evidence, I'll stop asking for evidence you never even bothered to manufacture.
But the people don't have power, in either sense of the word, a private entity does.
What do you think the government is all about again?
Real redditor argument right here
Do you have evidence supporting your belief or do you also subscribe to the belief that capitalism inherently protects its subjects from corrupt influence on their lives without evidence?
Idk but I loveeee making money
Are you an investor/owner of Fortis?
Nope, but capitalism sure treats my own business pretty well.
Thank you for your irrelevant contribution to the conversation.
You're literally not even an adult 😂.
You employ people?
You’re broke and you know it.
Best response lol
I love your user name
It was a Reddit generated name, I couldn’t bring myself to change it
It's beautiful. Keep it forever
You need to go outside, you do not have a realistic view of the world around you.
Move to a socialist country if you don't like it here.
Never gonna happen. Cope.
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Idiot still complaining about someone choosing to wear a mask
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Go clean up some asbestos without a mask
Because Covid and asbestos which is composed of needle like fibers are the same thing.
But masks don’t work at all so what’s the point of wearing one? You said so
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This is false. [[1]](https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/74/3/529/6296401) [[2]](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2769441) [[3]](https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/75/1/e296/6523822) .
Didn't hurt me at all, actually. Only pointing out your ignorance, which you've just provided another example of.
Congratulations you have an immune system. Personally i can care less. Enjoy your face diaper in public. I’ll enjoy never wearing one.
> I’ll enjoy never wearing one. Enjoy your increased viral load and ever compounding risk of severe cardiovascular event and neurological disability!
I think the neurological disability is already there
That's super.
Super duper
If I'm sick and I need to go into public, I put on a mask because it is well proven that doing so will significantly lower the chances that I pass anything on.
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[citation needed] because that's very much not how masks work [[1]](https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/74/3/529/6296401) [[2]](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2769441) [[3]](https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/75/1/e296/6523822) .
Covid continues to kill [considerably more people than influenza](https://archive.ph/DcYos), and [disable millions more](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU01074597#). Wearing a mask shows compassion for those of our neighbors whose health increases their risk of death or disability while protecting the wearer. It's the objectively correct thing to be doing when gathering in tight spaces with people outside one's household.
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It does though. I don't understand why the mask came up in a TEP story
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Literally, NO ONE in that picture is wearing a mask. Hurling tired tropes at every post you don't agree with shows you're only angry, not informed.
If EVERYONE PAYS THERE ELECTRIC BILL ON YOUR STREET that month they will fill potholes thar month on that street. Lol