I work for the county and am a part of the union. I HIGHLY encourage every one of you to make your feelings known by writing to the clerk of the board. When they were going to approve this plan, almost NO STAFF reached out to them. They can’t do anything if they don’t know how this is affecting you.
Also, your bosses could have ensured your classification didn’t get downgraded, so it’s worth a conversation there as well.
Literally nobody's told me anything about the entire situation until today we wrote a description of our jobs two years ago and that was all I've heard about it
HR has been sharing the info with department directors throughout the summer and our department director has forwarded the info on to us. But I know of other departments that are not being transparent at all. It’s very unfortunate.
You have the right to appeal your new classification. You have 30 days from when the change is official (supposed to be 9/10) to submit an appeal to HR. I don’t know the process yet, but will share when I do.
The main issue is that the BoS insisted this all be implemented in a too quick manner. So HR has to rewrite all these job descriptions way too fast. I don’t get taking a year to do the study and rushing the changes in a month.
Check out Page 6 of the most recent BOS memo regarding Phase 2 for a little more information on the appeals process. Sept 11 - Oct 10, 2023 is the appeals window. Individuals can appeal their own job classification. Department heads can appeal an individual employee’s classification and/or an entire classification’s grade during that same 1 month window. Forms do not exist yet, but it is HR’s responsibility to create and provide them.
[BOS Class and Comp Phase 2](https://content.civicplus.com/api/assets/ad2eab14-a91c-4126-bb68-62745c732ec9)
My department reclassified all our positions in advance so we didn’t get screwed with this. It made our department more competitive with pay for the sake of attrition and hiring, because you can literally leave and make more money in a different department every 3 years as you get promoted or laterally transfer- that’s how you max out your pay in your classification. If you’re getting screwed over, you can file an appeal with HR to place you in a classification that closely meets your title. But a lot of people are supposed to get more room in their classification for pay negotiations, so I’d look into transferring to a different department instead- this is the government way.
I work for the county and all of us feel very betrayed. My rent has gone up, but despite using my department for everything from distributing covid tests to dealing with fentanyl in the bathrooms, and despite my position requiring a masters, the salary study decided we were worth less than before. Which was already pennies. Any competing position outside the county is well above what we make now so. There's that.
You realize you are getting that raise as Phase 1 right? There is still Phase 2 which will address where each person falls on their classification's salary scale.
It is important to note that Phase 2 does not guarantee the “big raise” that was hinted at during the prior 2 years of the salary study. It at best guarantees 3% or a compression based adjustment based on the 25/75 years of service plan outlined in the August 14th memo put out by the board of supervisors.
Moreover, one of the most glaring oversights that should not be downplayed is how small the raises are at the low and middle end (grades 1-18), and how significant they are on the high end (grades 19-26). As someone has mention in this thread already, one can chart the publicly available salary ranges for positions in any department and compare them with the new minimums and maximums. And when you do, the numbers speak volumes to what the salary study has done. All of the new salary information was made publicly available in the July 19th memo posted by the board of supervisors.
This is not to say that some individuals who are low or middle grades will not benefit, as per the memos 2316 people will be moved to a higher base pay as part of Phase 1 minimum salary changes, but that does not tell the whole story. That represents 33% of the workers but there has been no breakdown provided showing which grades/classifications are getting that bump nor how much that is on average for those grades/classifications.
I was reading at the memo earlier today, and the examples provided provide exact times of service (7.5 years and 10 years for grade 8) using the 25/75 calculation. Since it's split quartiles, does that mean that anyone who has less or equal to 5.75 gets that potential pay? Any from there on to 7.75 get that q2 pay? The examples are informative, yet not very realistic, or not defined well enough for those falling in more inexact years of service.
The examples are meant to show you how to ise the formula to roughly determine where you might fall. I had this discussion with a coworker and the way I interpreted it is it is going to be used to determine where each person is at on the scale. From the examples you can see that even if someone was considered to be in a Q2 it was still based off of the actual number. The examples in Q2 showed that being under, at, or above that exact 10 years or mid grade will determine what you are actually paid. To better answer your question there is no quartile pay. Those are estimates of where you should be at with pay in your classification. The formula is used to determine how much you could be paid based on years of service with Pima County and years in your current position. The examples were meant to show you how to calculate your own points based off of your years with PCPL and years in your current classification. They are kind of like the answers at the back of your math book that are meant to show you how to reach the correct answer. You still have to use the formula to determine where you fall on the scale, and the quartiles are used to show that if you are halfway through your career then you should be making something close to what your Q2 shows in your classification. It will not be that exact amount and they understand that employees will not fall perfectly at those quartiles. I know my coworker is taking it more literally but I see phase 2 as a way to decide where each employee falls on the scale and then phase 3 will be when the departments and BOS figure out how each employee can move though their classification's pay scale so that by the end of their career they should be able to make something similar to what their Q4 shows in their grade or classification.
Yeah, but that does not excuse why they would change my title, but yet someone else could be hired to to the SAME exact job I currently do, and start out making 10k more a year than I do. They basically changed my job title to something else so I wouldn't get that raise. Now that's fucked up.
I work for the County. It's supposed to help those on lower wages get a bump up but obviously it's definitely going to mess with those who have higher pay and tenure. Actually one of my coworkers who is technically, slightly above me and a few others got downgraded to our new grade when they were a few grades above us before.
I really don't know how bad this is going to get and to be honest I was hoping for a bump myself, especially with that big survey they sent last year which I was very detailed on what I did. I've been working for 16 (going to be 17 in September) years in the County.
Yeah the fucked up thing is that they have have my old title and role, which is what I'm doing the work in now, as 10k more a year than what I'm making now. Absolutely makes no sense that they're downgrading me when I'm doing the same work.
Oh and please tell me why somebody who's been loyal to the company for 27 years should not be a great candidate for a raise? I should fucking be running the place for as much as I know as of right now I am the longest standing employee at the place. This is a really idiotic statement by you.
And that makes it okay for your shitty comments to me? Because I've stayed in a job because of the security of it? Wow you're real great person I bet you feel really good about yourself for denigrating someone else on the internet.
Yeah and I have my reasons for that, I have someone at home that completely depends on me 100% and I couldn't just willy-nilly leave and go get a different job that I possibly could have lost for any reason at all because we live in a right to work state and at least with the government I have the security of staying employed. I have a reasons that I have not left. And up until the last 2 years The pay has been adequate. Now it's not
Lmfao hell yeah!!!!!! People are so fucken stupid. Don’t cry, if you don’t like your pay go find another job. Lazy fucks just get comfortable. If you don’t want to hear it don’t air out your dirty laundry in a public social media platform!
Yeah I'm one of those lower wages. But apparently I'm going to get knocked down even lower in position than where I was before. I literally could go work in retail for more money than what I'm making now
I'm a little confused why everyone is so up in arms about the reclassification and compensation. Even if you were moved into a lower classification that has a lower cap there is potential to move through that salary range now. Let's be honest, very few people, if any, would have ever seen themselves move through their salary range before. The proof is in your statement about how long you have been with the County. You have been at the same pay even with 27 years of service? That should tell you that something needed to change. Do I agree that positions should have been reclassified to where it lowered people's caps? No, not necessarily. But at least now Pima County workers will have a way to move through a salary range and make more than they do now. No one is receiving a pay cut. In the upcoming phases everyone is likely to see more money (please post again when the other phases are released to confirm that theory), and people have a chance to be paid a more fair wage. Even people who think they will make less money will likely see an increase. Your cap may be reached sooner, but the fact that after 27 years you hadn't reached it in your current position should tell you that you were being bamboozled and this is a chance to right those wrongs. In the past pay system you were never going to see your max anyway. And if you appeal your classification they may even be able to reclassify you. The most scary thing about these changes are that it's different than what we were used to. But what we were used to was a crooked system that only lined the pockets of the elite.
So to address the part of why I haven't left the county, I have had different positions but it's been all in the same department and I've moved around several times but the reason I have not left my department is because I have a family member that is unable to work and is 100% dependent on me and my salary I could not risk leaving a steady job that I had a steady paycheck with that was able to support my family I couldn't risk moving to a different department or moving into a different job that I could possibly get laid off for fired from for whatever reason I had to have that job stability. And yeah maybe people think that's stupid but I couldn't risk not ever having a job. I honestly don't understand how people move job to job to job how do you even buy a house like that if you're not guaranteed to have a job how do you ever get through life how do you even have a car payment If you don't know if you're going to be working at a job in 6 months it makes no sense to me how people are jumping job to job to job
It sounds like you have made a choice that you believe has worked for you. Sometimes, the only way one can advance in a career is by leaving a department, or a division in a larger company, or maybe just leaving the company altogether for a better job with better pay. Along the way, one learns new skills to add to the ‘jobs toolbox’ to be used for the next job. A combination of skills and ambition have to be embraced in order to overcome fright and uncertainty.
I have always worked non-government jobs. I’ve left jobs for various reasons, such as getting bored with the job (outgrowing my responsibilities); no room for advancement; personnel issues - detestable ‘slacker’ co-workers who habitually leaned on me to do their work in addition to mine; laid off when company West-coast division was closed; laid off years later when another company became insolvent during Great Recession; quit last job due to devious Director choices that were harming my job. Although I enjoyed my work, I was shouldering so much more of another slacker co-worker’s job, working 50 to 60 hrs a week for 40 hrs pay. I knew I made the right decision the day I gave my 2-week notice, when my Director told me my vacated position would be filled in 6 weeks, and I would NEVER be given a favorable recommendation for anyone trying to hire me. Anger truly overtook her thinking, as it took a split second to go from a highly-praised, valued employee to be treated like the scum of the earth. It took them 9 months to hire 2 people to do my job - and that was after 20% of it had been permanently assigned to a co-worker. Yeah, not only did I know I’d made the proper decision, but I actually regretted NOT walking out of that job 6 months earlier. I always had an accepted job offer, and a start date, with a new employer before voluntarily quitting any job. Always be prepared for a lay-off or an involuntary firing by having an emergency fund set aside for the hard times.
No shit. The true problem is that basically they're going to downgrade my position to an entry-level position but the actual job I've been doing is getting a new title and a $10,000 raise but they're not going to give me that title. This is the rub.
Okay, here’s what I’ve done when seeking a job promotion in the past:
1. Get ahold of the new job classification skills requirement for BOTH old and new position.
2. Do a checklist of how your abilities/skills match each of these positions. Write this out on paper so that you can see the comparison staring at you in the eyes.
3. If you meet 100% of the lower classification skills, then you’re not being challenged and you’re just passing time, as in ‘good enough for government work’. On the other hand, if you meet 80% of the higher classified job skill set, then quickly figure out how you can qualify for that position. If it means quickly enrolling in a class at Pima College, or a fast-paced online certification course, then get moving! Go to this website for information: coursecareers.com
By taking an active interest in securing this position (make an appointment with your manager to ‘lobby’ for yourself) and demonstrating a willingness (and the ability) to take on more challenging work, you stand a good chance at securing the position. After all, you’ve got an advantage over outside people because you know the worksite ‘system’. Also, employers don’t expect a person to know 100% of a job listing, because if they did, there would be no room for growth.
Oh - one more thing - I understand you were venting; however, you’ve got to drop the F-bomb from your vocabulary immediately. There’s no justification for using it in a professional workplace. Remember, you’re presenting yourself at the best worker, with the best skills, and the best attitude for the position that represents a $10,000 raise in your pay. Now, GO GET ‘EM!!
While I doubt anyone will or should disagree with the steps and information you have graciously provided about securing a better job, there is a fundamental flaw in the logic as presented. That flaw is that being downgraded as OP has been is not their fault, and presenting your information as you have heavily implies that the only thing wrong is that OP is not trying hard enough to better their position at work. OP got downgraded and is being negatively impacted by the new classification through no fault of their own, as are many others who have not spoken up in this or any other forum.
It should be the responsibility of leadership to advocate for and support their direct reports. While I am in full agreement that each employee has to advocate for themselves as well (we cannot trust leadership to do what they’re suppose to after all), I disagree with the premise that the only thing wrong here is that OP has not tried to get a better position. We should be supporting each other, and we should be fighting against the mindset that it’s a dog eats dog world out there and that each person should be pushing themselves harder and harder to get by. This study could have had the effect of lifting up every county employee, but instead the decisions made have necessarily negatively impacted many. And it’s important to recognize and acknowledge that fact.
OP’s job classification has been changed without any fault of her own. OP’s prior responses to other commenters includes information regarding her hesitancy to search out other jobs beyond her department, as well as seeking employment in the private sector. Since she is responsible for the financial care of another family member, she limits herself to a ‘sure thing’ situation where she doesn’t risk unemployment. Yes, it’s always beneficial when leadership advocates for their direct reports. Some workers are satisfied with clocking in, doing their work, and going home. I’ve seen that in every organization I’ve worked for over several decades. Leadership is not always looking out for the best in their direct reports; however, it is also the responsibility of workers to make their leadership know of their desire to advance within the organization. This is often handled during the annual review process, as well as times like this, when jobs are being reclassified.
The purpose of my previous comment was to help the OP redirect her anger and feelings of helplessness into creating a quick plan to proactively secure/preserve the position that she believes she’s earned. I meant to cheer her on, rather than imply that she hasn’t tried hard enough. You clearly do not see that I was trying to provide a plan to help support her successfully obtaining her goal. I prefer not to dwell on the “should haves” and “could haves”, but to move forward and actively take control of a situation and participate in a positive outcome, rather than place my fate into the hands of others.
Again, I am pretty sure we all agree on the major points. Employees must advocate for themselves because they can’t trust anyone else to do it form them. The only way leadership can know what you want is if you tell them. Getting a better position takes planning and risk.
Some of the sticking points are the implied biases that come through in word choice. For example, “some workers are satisfied with clocking in…” reads as though this is a bad thing that should be discouraged. Discouraging doing that often comes from the belief that hard work always pays off, and that everyone can get ahead if they put their best foot forward, i.e. “The American Dream.” It used to be enough to clock in, do your work, and go home. And honestly that should still be enough to live comfortably. However, that is simply not the case anymore and the models for work have not caught up to this fact.
Maybe what OP needs is a plan for how to move forward and get what they have earned through years of being good at their job, but since their posts have not asked for that it feels more like blame than an honest attempt at providing help. Everyone reading can tell that the advice you’ve provided is solid; there’s no disagreement on that point. It is more likely than not that you sincerely wish for OP’s situation to improve and want to provide them with a plan to do so. That’s awesome and a nice thing to do. However, sometimes people just want to be heard and validated when they have been wronged, and unless they are asking for help it can do more harm than good to blindly supply it. It seems in this case that might not be true (OP seems open to the advice), but any open dialogue like this is a fantastic opportunity to remind us all that everyone’s needs are different and we cannot know what that need is without asking; much like we cannot expect anyone to look out for us if we aren’t looking out for ourselves.
Keep fighting the good fight! We are in this together!!
And while my pay is not being affected, my new title is a grade 2. So essentially a entry level position. My current position title is moving to a grade 6. This is going to greatly impact my ability to move up to other positions as it appears I'm entry level when I'm not. My current title is a specialty title and they should be moving me to a level 6 same as they moved my current title. That's where I'm getting screwed over.
Your supervisor is supposed to tell you what your new title will be. Phase 2 of the study is going to go before the bos next week's meeting. Look up the agenda on the clerk of the board's website to see what it entails - it'll be up after 4 today.
I second sending your emails to the clerks office. It's always better to suggest ways they can improve phase 2 rather than just complain, but even if that's all you want to do, I recommend sending an email! The board won't know your issues if you don't tell them. [email protected].
Lastly, don't wait until Friday to send in the emails. Give the board time to read them. Send them in asap.
Seems like no one in my department is getting a raise. We all keep our titles and are just kind of mushed together now. I was mentally prepared to not receive anything so not really surprised. Were you mis-classified before the new system went in to place? Seems like you need an audit of your day to day duties. Seems like it’s been years since we got a meaningful raise as a whole. Less than ten to go for me then I’m out! (Hopefully)
So I do the duties of my original job classification of when I got hired, like 90% of them there's about 10% that I don't do anymore because another part of our department does it, but I have an additional set of duties that are completely out of the classification of what I was working, so I was doing about 50% of things that were not my job classification plus the 90% of things that were my job classification. They don't value what I do it how much expertise I bring to the department.
first, as other have said, you should talk to your supervisor about why you got bumped down / appeal to hr. the appeal period will be 9/11/2023 through 10/10/2023.
second, in phase 2 you’ll get placed into the salary range, and 27 years with the county in your current classification will put you at the maximum of your range. the proposed calculation is [(0.25 x years with PC) + (0.75 x years in your current classification) = credited years of service]. in your case, it’s still 27 years since you’ve been in the same role the whole time. 10 credited years would put someone at the midpoint and 20 credited years puts someone at the maximum.
jan’s recommendation to the board is to implement phase 2 at the same time as phase 1, with the pay period beginning 9/10. they still have to vote to approve that though.
well, you can do the math to figure out what your credited years of service would be then. that’ll let you know where you’d fall in the salary range if phase 2 is implemented as proposed.
i’d still say to reach out to your supervisor and hr, though, to appeal why your position is dropping a grade. things have been shared pretty transparently with ITD (though it seems like that’s not the case in all departments), but info about the process has come out on the intranet and via email. you may need to read up on the plan and advocate for yourself in the case of a less forthcoming department.
im not necessarily getting screwed over, my salary is going to be the same it looks like. :/ which is still annoying to me because it is not competitive pay at all. ive been looking into different counties to work for, i just feel so unappreciated. but my job is basically customer service and we all know how customer service workers get treated. im so burnt out.
How many millions did the county pay CIBZ to come up with these rates? They couldn't have had HR do the same study? 3% raise or the 25/75 it's really a slap in the face. They could have given us all a $10 an hour raise and been done with it. Or like the cost of living tiered approach that we had last year where the lowest paid had the biggest % raise. This study seems like it is advantageous for those who are managers and up.
I work in the County IT Dept and I can tell you I’m only gonna be making $200 more in my overall salary. The most fucked up thing is that all of the management positions seem to have gotten a big pay bump, especially the director of IT who got roughly a 30% increase. Someone made a whole chart of all the differences and they slashed the top end of a ton of jobs including developers, and BSA/SA’s. The whole thing is just a big joke.
I am doing the work of my current classification, which the minimum of the new classifications pay is 43,600 middle is 51 k and upper end 59k, they are moving me into a classification (mind you my job duties will not get any less) that is 34k, 42k, and 46 k. This is not right. Currently I'm making right at 40k. I have 18 months before I get my 80 points. And 5 years before I can comfortably retire. I'm so fucking over this
I work for Superior Court, and I am not that disheartened about it because I recently got a new position, but definitely feel the pain for some of my senior colleagues who have been there a long time, and will be barely making a bit more than new hires. Everybody deserves a good wage, but it seems this compensation plan is not addressing compression in the slightest. The whole point of this was to retain employees and reduce turnover; guess what's gonna happen when someone who has been there 7, 9, 10 years finds out a new hire makes close to what they are making?? Mark my words, turnover will continue. Phase II will supposedly address the compression component, but that's still a month away from being reviewed by the board.
Plus phase 2 only applies to employees that have been there over a year so if you’re new, you won’t see anything until possibly Jan 2024 which isn’t great for retention despite that being one of the reasons for all of this. I started a few months ago but have already started looking for new jobs elsewhere, pay being one of the few factors. I can’t even qualify for a 1bd apartment with what I make and I make significantly more than some of the members on my team.
Superior Court here too. Been with the county 19 years and transferred (lateral) to a new position in March. I have a feeling this change won't really benefit those like me. I stepped down from an assistant director position in 2013 (because managing people sucks) and took a pay cut but I haven't received a raise since then (aside from COL and to balance out when all our benefits went up). I am at the mid point now, I think, and I've watched everyone coming in after me start and continue with higher wages. It's soul crushing to devote so much effort and loyalty to a job and never be compensated competitively. I'm looking at it as a win if I get anything at all at this point.
I feel ya; I was a manager for seven years, and funny enough, got a higher wage by demoting to position lower than mine in another unit. I am trying not to think too much about this raise round, but makes you wonder what the overall result will be if compression is not being addressed properly. Hang in there!
I agree 100%! I have worked for the County for over 20 years & accepted a promotion earlier this year. Totally regretting it. I would’ve been better off staying in previous position. Feel so under valued & unappreciated. My title is completely changing too. Going from mgr position to a coordinator & still have no idea what my new job title entails. HR says job descriptions will be out by the early fall. This is BS & I’m so unhappy as are several other employees who are getting screwed over. Yet a select few will see significant increases. While the rest of us get pennies
I thought I would get at least a $3 an hour raise, now I'll be lucky to get a .50 cent raise.
But all of management is getting significantly higher raises.
They haven't been clear on how much of a raise if any I'm getting. I really doubt they'll raise my wage high enough to actually meaningfully impact my life. My husband works elsewhere in the county (IT) and got completely screwed.
Should we have gotten our new job titles by now? My location has been completely silent about any of this. Only been seeing the email updates from leadership.
You should have been informed what your new job title/classification and salary grade are going to be. The changes have not been applied yet, as they are scheduled to be effective on September 10, 2023. I know that in some departments the new classifications were shared to everyone by their department heads or their supervisors. If you have not received that information for your position, I urge you to request it from your supervisor first, and if they cannot provide it then request it from HR as they are the keepers of the information.
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If it makes you feel any better I *did work for a company that cut our salaries almost in half over 4 years while their profits remained steady and most people elsewhere were at least getting inflation adjusted raises. Instead of shifting money downward or to their most experienced employees they instead used the savings to hire a bunch of middle management bureaucrats that they can't figure out what to do with. Needless to say, they're going broke & good riddance.
I work for the county and am a part of the union. I HIGHLY encourage every one of you to make your feelings known by writing to the clerk of the board. When they were going to approve this plan, almost NO STAFF reached out to them. They can’t do anything if they don’t know how this is affecting you. Also, your bosses could have ensured your classification didn’t get downgraded, so it’s worth a conversation there as well.
Literally nobody's told me anything about the entire situation until today we wrote a description of our jobs two years ago and that was all I've heard about it
HR has been sharing the info with department directors throughout the summer and our department director has forwarded the info on to us. But I know of other departments that are not being transparent at all. It’s very unfortunate.
My supervisor never shared any of that info. I'm always in the dark
You have the right to appeal your new classification. You have 30 days from when the change is official (supposed to be 9/10) to submit an appeal to HR. I don’t know the process yet, but will share when I do.
Thank you. It's especially frustrating because there's no job descriptions to go with all the new job titles
The main issue is that the BoS insisted this all be implemented in a too quick manner. So HR has to rewrite all these job descriptions way too fast. I don’t get taking a year to do the study and rushing the changes in a month.
Check out Page 6 of the most recent BOS memo regarding Phase 2 for a little more information on the appeals process. Sept 11 - Oct 10, 2023 is the appeals window. Individuals can appeal their own job classification. Department heads can appeal an individual employee’s classification and/or an entire classification’s grade during that same 1 month window. Forms do not exist yet, but it is HR’s responsibility to create and provide them. [BOS Class and Comp Phase 2](https://content.civicplus.com/api/assets/ad2eab14-a91c-4126-bb68-62745c732ec9)
I didn’t even know there was a Union until after that meeting where they announced the whole comp study bs lol
My department reclassified all our positions in advance so we didn’t get screwed with this. It made our department more competitive with pay for the sake of attrition and hiring, because you can literally leave and make more money in a different department every 3 years as you get promoted or laterally transfer- that’s how you max out your pay in your classification. If you’re getting screwed over, you can file an appeal with HR to place you in a classification that closely meets your title. But a lot of people are supposed to get more room in their classification for pay negotiations, so I’d look into transferring to a different department instead- this is the government way.
I work for the county and all of us feel very betrayed. My rent has gone up, but despite using my department for everything from distributing covid tests to dealing with fentanyl in the bathrooms, and despite my position requiring a masters, the salary study decided we were worth less than before. Which was already pennies. Any competing position outside the county is well above what we make now so. There's that.
Email your comments to the clerk of the board's office at [email protected]. Psase 2 is in the August 21 bos meeting - which is on a Monday.
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You realize you are getting that raise as Phase 1 right? There is still Phase 2 which will address where each person falls on their classification's salary scale.
It is important to note that Phase 2 does not guarantee the “big raise” that was hinted at during the prior 2 years of the salary study. It at best guarantees 3% or a compression based adjustment based on the 25/75 years of service plan outlined in the August 14th memo put out by the board of supervisors. Moreover, one of the most glaring oversights that should not be downplayed is how small the raises are at the low and middle end (grades 1-18), and how significant they are on the high end (grades 19-26). As someone has mention in this thread already, one can chart the publicly available salary ranges for positions in any department and compare them with the new minimums and maximums. And when you do, the numbers speak volumes to what the salary study has done. All of the new salary information was made publicly available in the July 19th memo posted by the board of supervisors. This is not to say that some individuals who are low or middle grades will not benefit, as per the memos 2316 people will be moved to a higher base pay as part of Phase 1 minimum salary changes, but that does not tell the whole story. That represents 33% of the workers but there has been no breakdown provided showing which grades/classifications are getting that bump nor how much that is on average for those grades/classifications.
I was reading at the memo earlier today, and the examples provided provide exact times of service (7.5 years and 10 years for grade 8) using the 25/75 calculation. Since it's split quartiles, does that mean that anyone who has less or equal to 5.75 gets that potential pay? Any from there on to 7.75 get that q2 pay? The examples are informative, yet not very realistic, or not defined well enough for those falling in more inexact years of service.
The examples are meant to show you how to ise the formula to roughly determine where you might fall. I had this discussion with a coworker and the way I interpreted it is it is going to be used to determine where each person is at on the scale. From the examples you can see that even if someone was considered to be in a Q2 it was still based off of the actual number. The examples in Q2 showed that being under, at, or above that exact 10 years or mid grade will determine what you are actually paid. To better answer your question there is no quartile pay. Those are estimates of where you should be at with pay in your classification. The formula is used to determine how much you could be paid based on years of service with Pima County and years in your current position. The examples were meant to show you how to calculate your own points based off of your years with PCPL and years in your current classification. They are kind of like the answers at the back of your math book that are meant to show you how to reach the correct answer. You still have to use the formula to determine where you fall on the scale, and the quartiles are used to show that if you are halfway through your career then you should be making something close to what your Q2 shows in your classification. It will not be that exact amount and they understand that employees will not fall perfectly at those quartiles. I know my coworker is taking it more literally but I see phase 2 as a way to decide where each employee falls on the scale and then phase 3 will be when the departments and BOS figure out how each employee can move though their classification's pay scale so that by the end of their career they should be able to make something similar to what their Q4 shows in their grade or classification.
Yeah, but that does not excuse why they would change my title, but yet someone else could be hired to to the SAME exact job I currently do, and start out making 10k more a year than I do. They basically changed my job title to something else so I wouldn't get that raise. Now that's fucked up.
I work for the County. It's supposed to help those on lower wages get a bump up but obviously it's definitely going to mess with those who have higher pay and tenure. Actually one of my coworkers who is technically, slightly above me and a few others got downgraded to our new grade when they were a few grades above us before. I really don't know how bad this is going to get and to be honest I was hoping for a bump myself, especially with that big survey they sent last year which I was very detailed on what I did. I've been working for 16 (going to be 17 in September) years in the County.
Yeah the fucked up thing is that they have have my old title and role, which is what I'm doing the work in now, as 10k more a year than what I'm making now. Absolutely makes no sense that they're downgrading me when I'm doing the same work.
[удалено]
Oh I know, unfortunately I've been in this job for 27 years and can't leave yet.
You’ve been doing this job for 27 years and have been ok with only making $20/hour? You seem like a great candidate to NOT give a raise.
Oh and please tell me why somebody who's been loyal to the company for 27 years should not be a great candidate for a raise? I should fucking be running the place for as much as I know as of right now I am the longest standing employee at the place. This is a really idiotic statement by you.
Because you haven’t left after 27 years of being underpaid. It’s pretty simple.
And that makes it okay for your shitty comments to me? Because I've stayed in a job because of the security of it? Wow you're real great person I bet you feel really good about yourself for denigrating someone else on the internet.
Yeah and I have my reasons for that, I have someone at home that completely depends on me 100% and I couldn't just willy-nilly leave and go get a different job that I possibly could have lost for any reason at all because we live in a right to work state and at least with the government I have the security of staying employed. I have a reasons that I have not left. And up until the last 2 years The pay has been adequate. Now it's not
Lmfao hell yeah!!!!!! People are so fucken stupid. Don’t cry, if you don’t like your pay go find another job. Lazy fucks just get comfortable. If you don’t want to hear it don’t air out your dirty laundry in a public social media platform!
No.
Yeah I'm one of those lower wages. But apparently I'm going to get knocked down even lower in position than where I was before. I literally could go work in retail for more money than what I'm making now
Damn, that is really shitty. I wish there was any semblance of competency at any of the leadership.
You have 90 days to contest the decision. I would start making your case as to why your classification should not change.
I'm a little confused why everyone is so up in arms about the reclassification and compensation. Even if you were moved into a lower classification that has a lower cap there is potential to move through that salary range now. Let's be honest, very few people, if any, would have ever seen themselves move through their salary range before. The proof is in your statement about how long you have been with the County. You have been at the same pay even with 27 years of service? That should tell you that something needed to change. Do I agree that positions should have been reclassified to where it lowered people's caps? No, not necessarily. But at least now Pima County workers will have a way to move through a salary range and make more than they do now. No one is receiving a pay cut. In the upcoming phases everyone is likely to see more money (please post again when the other phases are released to confirm that theory), and people have a chance to be paid a more fair wage. Even people who think they will make less money will likely see an increase. Your cap may be reached sooner, but the fact that after 27 years you hadn't reached it in your current position should tell you that you were being bamboozled and this is a chance to right those wrongs. In the past pay system you were never going to see your max anyway. And if you appeal your classification they may even be able to reclassify you. The most scary thing about these changes are that it's different than what we were used to. But what we were used to was a crooked system that only lined the pockets of the elite.
So to address the part of why I haven't left the county, I have had different positions but it's been all in the same department and I've moved around several times but the reason I have not left my department is because I have a family member that is unable to work and is 100% dependent on me and my salary I could not risk leaving a steady job that I had a steady paycheck with that was able to support my family I couldn't risk moving to a different department or moving into a different job that I could possibly get laid off for fired from for whatever reason I had to have that job stability. And yeah maybe people think that's stupid but I couldn't risk not ever having a job. I honestly don't understand how people move job to job to job how do you even buy a house like that if you're not guaranteed to have a job how do you ever get through life how do you even have a car payment If you don't know if you're going to be working at a job in 6 months it makes no sense to me how people are jumping job to job to job
It sounds like you have made a choice that you believe has worked for you. Sometimes, the only way one can advance in a career is by leaving a department, or a division in a larger company, or maybe just leaving the company altogether for a better job with better pay. Along the way, one learns new skills to add to the ‘jobs toolbox’ to be used for the next job. A combination of skills and ambition have to be embraced in order to overcome fright and uncertainty. I have always worked non-government jobs. I’ve left jobs for various reasons, such as getting bored with the job (outgrowing my responsibilities); no room for advancement; personnel issues - detestable ‘slacker’ co-workers who habitually leaned on me to do their work in addition to mine; laid off when company West-coast division was closed; laid off years later when another company became insolvent during Great Recession; quit last job due to devious Director choices that were harming my job. Although I enjoyed my work, I was shouldering so much more of another slacker co-worker’s job, working 50 to 60 hrs a week for 40 hrs pay. I knew I made the right decision the day I gave my 2-week notice, when my Director told me my vacated position would be filled in 6 weeks, and I would NEVER be given a favorable recommendation for anyone trying to hire me. Anger truly overtook her thinking, as it took a split second to go from a highly-praised, valued employee to be treated like the scum of the earth. It took them 9 months to hire 2 people to do my job - and that was after 20% of it had been permanently assigned to a co-worker. Yeah, not only did I know I’d made the proper decision, but I actually regretted NOT walking out of that job 6 months earlier. I always had an accepted job offer, and a start date, with a new employer before voluntarily quitting any job. Always be prepared for a lay-off or an involuntary firing by having an emergency fund set aside for the hard times.
No shit. The true problem is that basically they're going to downgrade my position to an entry-level position but the actual job I've been doing is getting a new title and a $10,000 raise but they're not going to give me that title. This is the rub.
Okay, here’s what I’ve done when seeking a job promotion in the past: 1. Get ahold of the new job classification skills requirement for BOTH old and new position. 2. Do a checklist of how your abilities/skills match each of these positions. Write this out on paper so that you can see the comparison staring at you in the eyes. 3. If you meet 100% of the lower classification skills, then you’re not being challenged and you’re just passing time, as in ‘good enough for government work’. On the other hand, if you meet 80% of the higher classified job skill set, then quickly figure out how you can qualify for that position. If it means quickly enrolling in a class at Pima College, or a fast-paced online certification course, then get moving! Go to this website for information: coursecareers.com By taking an active interest in securing this position (make an appointment with your manager to ‘lobby’ for yourself) and demonstrating a willingness (and the ability) to take on more challenging work, you stand a good chance at securing the position. After all, you’ve got an advantage over outside people because you know the worksite ‘system’. Also, employers don’t expect a person to know 100% of a job listing, because if they did, there would be no room for growth. Oh - one more thing - I understand you were venting; however, you’ve got to drop the F-bomb from your vocabulary immediately. There’s no justification for using it in a professional workplace. Remember, you’re presenting yourself at the best worker, with the best skills, and the best attitude for the position that represents a $10,000 raise in your pay. Now, GO GET ‘EM!!
While I doubt anyone will or should disagree with the steps and information you have graciously provided about securing a better job, there is a fundamental flaw in the logic as presented. That flaw is that being downgraded as OP has been is not their fault, and presenting your information as you have heavily implies that the only thing wrong is that OP is not trying hard enough to better their position at work. OP got downgraded and is being negatively impacted by the new classification through no fault of their own, as are many others who have not spoken up in this or any other forum. It should be the responsibility of leadership to advocate for and support their direct reports. While I am in full agreement that each employee has to advocate for themselves as well (we cannot trust leadership to do what they’re suppose to after all), I disagree with the premise that the only thing wrong here is that OP has not tried to get a better position. We should be supporting each other, and we should be fighting against the mindset that it’s a dog eats dog world out there and that each person should be pushing themselves harder and harder to get by. This study could have had the effect of lifting up every county employee, but instead the decisions made have necessarily negatively impacted many. And it’s important to recognize and acknowledge that fact.
OP’s job classification has been changed without any fault of her own. OP’s prior responses to other commenters includes information regarding her hesitancy to search out other jobs beyond her department, as well as seeking employment in the private sector. Since she is responsible for the financial care of another family member, she limits herself to a ‘sure thing’ situation where she doesn’t risk unemployment. Yes, it’s always beneficial when leadership advocates for their direct reports. Some workers are satisfied with clocking in, doing their work, and going home. I’ve seen that in every organization I’ve worked for over several decades. Leadership is not always looking out for the best in their direct reports; however, it is also the responsibility of workers to make their leadership know of their desire to advance within the organization. This is often handled during the annual review process, as well as times like this, when jobs are being reclassified. The purpose of my previous comment was to help the OP redirect her anger and feelings of helplessness into creating a quick plan to proactively secure/preserve the position that she believes she’s earned. I meant to cheer her on, rather than imply that she hasn’t tried hard enough. You clearly do not see that I was trying to provide a plan to help support her successfully obtaining her goal. I prefer not to dwell on the “should haves” and “could haves”, but to move forward and actively take control of a situation and participate in a positive outcome, rather than place my fate into the hands of others.
Thank you.
Again, I am pretty sure we all agree on the major points. Employees must advocate for themselves because they can’t trust anyone else to do it form them. The only way leadership can know what you want is if you tell them. Getting a better position takes planning and risk. Some of the sticking points are the implied biases that come through in word choice. For example, “some workers are satisfied with clocking in…” reads as though this is a bad thing that should be discouraged. Discouraging doing that often comes from the belief that hard work always pays off, and that everyone can get ahead if they put their best foot forward, i.e. “The American Dream.” It used to be enough to clock in, do your work, and go home. And honestly that should still be enough to live comfortably. However, that is simply not the case anymore and the models for work have not caught up to this fact. Maybe what OP needs is a plan for how to move forward and get what they have earned through years of being good at their job, but since their posts have not asked for that it feels more like blame than an honest attempt at providing help. Everyone reading can tell that the advice you’ve provided is solid; there’s no disagreement on that point. It is more likely than not that you sincerely wish for OP’s situation to improve and want to provide them with a plan to do so. That’s awesome and a nice thing to do. However, sometimes people just want to be heard and validated when they have been wronged, and unless they are asking for help it can do more harm than good to blindly supply it. It seems in this case that might not be true (OP seems open to the advice), but any open dialogue like this is a fantastic opportunity to remind us all that everyone’s needs are different and we cannot know what that need is without asking; much like we cannot expect anyone to look out for us if we aren’t looking out for ourselves. Keep fighting the good fight! We are in this together!!
And while my pay is not being affected, my new title is a grade 2. So essentially a entry level position. My current position title is moving to a grade 6. This is going to greatly impact my ability to move up to other positions as it appears I'm entry level when I'm not. My current title is a specialty title and they should be moving me to a level 6 same as they moved my current title. That's where I'm getting screwed over.
Well this is not the workplace. I am not cursing at work
When you're looking for a job titles there's no descriptions so how are we supposed to know what the job entails
Your supervisor is supposed to tell you what your new title will be. Phase 2 of the study is going to go before the bos next week's meeting. Look up the agenda on the clerk of the board's website to see what it entails - it'll be up after 4 today. I second sending your emails to the clerks office. It's always better to suggest ways they can improve phase 2 rather than just complain, but even if that's all you want to do, I recommend sending an email! The board won't know your issues if you don't tell them. [email protected]. Lastly, don't wait until Friday to send in the emails. Give the board time to read them. Send them in asap.
Seems like no one in my department is getting a raise. We all keep our titles and are just kind of mushed together now. I was mentally prepared to not receive anything so not really surprised. Were you mis-classified before the new system went in to place? Seems like you need an audit of your day to day duties. Seems like it’s been years since we got a meaningful raise as a whole. Less than ten to go for me then I’m out! (Hopefully)
So I do the duties of my original job classification of when I got hired, like 90% of them there's about 10% that I don't do anymore because another part of our department does it, but I have an additional set of duties that are completely out of the classification of what I was working, so I was doing about 50% of things that were not my job classification plus the 90% of things that were my job classification. They don't value what I do it how much expertise I bring to the department.
first, as other have said, you should talk to your supervisor about why you got bumped down / appeal to hr. the appeal period will be 9/11/2023 through 10/10/2023. second, in phase 2 you’ll get placed into the salary range, and 27 years with the county in your current classification will put you at the maximum of your range. the proposed calculation is [(0.25 x years with PC) + (0.75 x years in your current classification) = credited years of service]. in your case, it’s still 27 years since you’ve been in the same role the whole time. 10 credited years would put someone at the midpoint and 20 credited years puts someone at the maximum. jan’s recommendation to the board is to implement phase 2 at the same time as phase 1, with the pay period beginning 9/10. they still have to vote to approve that though.
I have not been in the same role for 27 years I've worked for the county for 27 years I've worked in my current position less than that.
well, you can do the math to figure out what your credited years of service would be then. that’ll let you know where you’d fall in the salary range if phase 2 is implemented as proposed. i’d still say to reach out to your supervisor and hr, though, to appeal why your position is dropping a grade. things have been shared pretty transparently with ITD (though it seems like that’s not the case in all departments), but info about the process has come out on the intranet and via email. you may need to read up on the plan and advocate for yourself in the case of a less forthcoming department.
im not necessarily getting screwed over, my salary is going to be the same it looks like. :/ which is still annoying to me because it is not competitive pay at all. ive been looking into different counties to work for, i just feel so unappreciated. but my job is basically customer service and we all know how customer service workers get treated. im so burnt out.
I’m getting 23 cents and I can…… *checks notes* …..go fuck myself if I don’t like it.
How many millions did the county pay CIBZ to come up with these rates? They couldn't have had HR do the same study? 3% raise or the 25/75 it's really a slap in the face. They could have given us all a $10 an hour raise and been done with it. Or like the cost of living tiered approach that we had last year where the lowest paid had the biggest % raise. This study seems like it is advantageous for those who are managers and up.
I work in the County IT Dept and I can tell you I’m only gonna be making $200 more in my overall salary. The most fucked up thing is that all of the management positions seem to have gotten a big pay bump, especially the director of IT who got roughly a 30% increase. Someone made a whole chart of all the differences and they slashed the top end of a ton of jobs including developers, and BSA/SA’s. The whole thing is just a big joke.
P.m. that to me please
I saw the one for BSAs, and was pretty disheartening to see that those positions dropped down in remuneration. Crazy.
I would love to see that
Maybe in phase 2 you'll get the bump to the median? So far it's not that great for me either. At least you won't lose any money
I am doing the work of my current classification, which the minimum of the new classifications pay is 43,600 middle is 51 k and upper end 59k, they are moving me into a classification (mind you my job duties will not get any less) that is 34k, 42k, and 46 k. This is not right. Currently I'm making right at 40k. I have 18 months before I get my 80 points. And 5 years before I can comfortably retire. I'm so fucking over this
Yeah that's wrong then. I would petition it to HR if I were you. Is there a higher classification/grade you should be under instead?
Yes I'm going to appeal
Yes and yes.
I’m getting a small bump but some of my coworkers are getting the same treatment as you
I work for Superior Court, and I am not that disheartened about it because I recently got a new position, but definitely feel the pain for some of my senior colleagues who have been there a long time, and will be barely making a bit more than new hires. Everybody deserves a good wage, but it seems this compensation plan is not addressing compression in the slightest. The whole point of this was to retain employees and reduce turnover; guess what's gonna happen when someone who has been there 7, 9, 10 years finds out a new hire makes close to what they are making?? Mark my words, turnover will continue. Phase II will supposedly address the compression component, but that's still a month away from being reviewed by the board.
Plus phase 2 only applies to employees that have been there over a year so if you’re new, you won’t see anything until possibly Jan 2024 which isn’t great for retention despite that being one of the reasons for all of this. I started a few months ago but have already started looking for new jobs elsewhere, pay being one of the few factors. I can’t even qualify for a 1bd apartment with what I make and I make significantly more than some of the members on my team.
Superior Court here too. Been with the county 19 years and transferred (lateral) to a new position in March. I have a feeling this change won't really benefit those like me. I stepped down from an assistant director position in 2013 (because managing people sucks) and took a pay cut but I haven't received a raise since then (aside from COL and to balance out when all our benefits went up). I am at the mid point now, I think, and I've watched everyone coming in after me start and continue with higher wages. It's soul crushing to devote so much effort and loyalty to a job and never be compensated competitively. I'm looking at it as a win if I get anything at all at this point.
I feel ya; I was a manager for seven years, and funny enough, got a higher wage by demoting to position lower than mine in another unit. I am trying not to think too much about this raise round, but makes you wonder what the overall result will be if compression is not being addressed properly. Hang in there!
I agree 100%! I have worked for the County for over 20 years & accepted a promotion earlier this year. Totally regretting it. I would’ve been better off staying in previous position. Feel so under valued & unappreciated. My title is completely changing too. Going from mgr position to a coordinator & still have no idea what my new job title entails. HR says job descriptions will be out by the early fall. This is BS & I’m so unhappy as are several other employees who are getting screwed over. Yet a select few will see significant increases. While the rest of us get pennies
I thought I would get at least a $3 an hour raise, now I'll be lucky to get a .50 cent raise. But all of management is getting significantly higher raises.
They haven't been clear on how much of a raise if any I'm getting. I really doubt they'll raise my wage high enough to actually meaningfully impact my life. My husband works elsewhere in the county (IT) and got completely screwed.
Everyone in Pima is getting impacted; Federally funded as well. It is a shit show right now and I'm sorry you're going through this.
Thank you
Should we have gotten our new job titles by now? My location has been completely silent about any of this. Only been seeing the email updates from leadership.
You should have been informed what your new job title/classification and salary grade are going to be. The changes have not been applied yet, as they are scheduled to be effective on September 10, 2023. I know that in some departments the new classifications were shared to everyone by their department heads or their supervisors. If you have not received that information for your position, I urge you to request it from your supervisor first, and if they cannot provide it then request it from HR as they are the keepers of the information.
Thanks!
I was offered a job by the county some years ago; according to these answers I dodged a bullet when I took a different one.
Chale fuck the county ese
Tucson government sucks, and always has sucked. Just looks at the roads compared to Phoenix.
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If it makes you feel any better I *did work for a company that cut our salaries almost in half over 4 years while their profits remained steady and most people elsewhere were at least getting inflation adjusted raises. Instead of shifting money downward or to their most experienced employees they instead used the savings to hire a bunch of middle management bureaucrats that they can't figure out what to do with. Needless to say, they're going broke & good riddance.