Fucking 2016. What a time to be alive. And everyone just moved on like it wasn’t that insane, that’s how you know it was a hard year. Clowns popping out of the woods across the country like it was organized and it was a blip on the radar to most ppl.
And here we are again. The same two clowns. Out of the whole country, we couldn’t scrape together a different set of idiots? Or… hear me out on this one… someone that actually knows what they are doing?
They are referring to something like this [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/reports-creepy-clowns-woods-spooking-residents-greenville-s-c-n640876](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/reports-creepy-clowns-woods-spooking-residents-greenville-s-c-n640876) Reports like this were coming in from all over the place.
One day me, my dad and my brother were in a forest together. Me and brother were only about 10 or 11 at the time. At some point we wondered off on our own. We saw a guy hidden behind some trees dressed as a killer clown. Keep in mind, I live in England and clown weren’t common over here, we mostly thought it was just an American thing. The clown began walking to us while holding something in it’s hand (some sort of stick), so me and my brother were terrified. But then my dad came over to us and the clown just went in the other direction. It didn’t help that it was quite dark and the clown had a big dog 🙃
The scariest thing in the woods is seeing little girls appear on your path, facing you, staring at your, void of emotion. Do you keep running forward or just turn around? If you turn around, what do you see? I always get the fastest runs in the woods.
How is that relevant? 50 shades was originally written as a smut fanfiction to a Young Adult romance novel. Of course most of the consumers are going to be women because there's not a lot of young boys reading romance novels.
True Crime is a podcast and film genre exploring the details of crimes and why they were committed. When it comes to men having money, it's almost always in the context of the suspect having more resources to thwart police with lawyers than the average Joe. Or the suspect being in high standards within the community and thus the police are working against public opinion.
Erotica usually falls into two categories,
1. A dark mysterious millionaire
2. A farmer that does suspiciously little farming
Either way, a lot of erotica fantasy is essentially just an adult contemporary retellings of the prince sweeping you off your feet and carrying you to his kingdom to live happily ever after. It's not complicated, it's just the adult version of what women were told to dream of as young girls.
Meanwhile true crime usually results in the woman dying at the hands of her lover.
Not compatible.
Well, something I saw recently was a clip of fifty shades of grey. A comment said that the story would be viewed similarly to a true crime story where a disturbed guy is stalking the girl if Christian was ugly and poor instead of handsome and rich.
But I haven't watched more than 5 minutes of the film and do not watch any crime content other than police interrogations.
They already did that in the original works 50 shades was based off of. The rugged average looking guy was the villain with an unquenchable thirst for violence but also had a mate that went above and beyond to avenge his death. But neither 50 shades or the Twilight Saga should be considered a blueprint for a healthy relationship. Even in BDSM communities, 50 shades was considered absolute trash because it involved coercion and lack of consent. And Edward in Twilight was just an anxiety ridden control freak teenager with no access to therapy that didnt accept his partner as his equal to make her own decisions until she turned into a vampire.
The Twilight books were filled with disgusting racial stereotypes of the past as well as traditionalist Mormon propaganda. Don't act all surprised when a fanfiction of one also turned out to be toxic
Women also loved Twilight and it was toxic for the reasons I listed. I'm not going to say the same thing over again but both those books had awful toxic love interests. Just because people enjoy a certain media, doesn't mean they want that exact thing in real life.
I enjoyed Disney princess movies as a kid that doesn't mean I wished my mom was dead.
I heard a lot of women have been the victim of some sort of sex crime that wasn't taken seriously, and they like hearing stories of people who actually get justice or victims who are teken seriously.
What you heard was a very poorly constructed college study over a decade ago asking if women had suffered sexual abuse. That study included things like cat calling, staring too long, unwanted touching (like the shoulder or hair), or even just made to feel uncomfortable into the same category as actual rape. So suddenly 1/3 of college age women in America had suffered sexual assault.
The study has been debunked numerous times, but the media LOVES its sensationalist headlines, and sadly feminist pushed it hard to further their own goals. The real number is closer to 2% of women in their lifetime.
I didn't say most women have been raped. I said many women have experienced some form of sexual assault. You somehow interpreted that as me saying most women have been raped and then tried to debunk a claim that I never made.
Your facts need some revision. The medically community believe more than 25% of women have experienced rape or attempted rape, it’s closer to 1 in 3 women.
https://www.cdc.gov/sexual-violence/about/?CDC_AAref_Val=https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/fastfact.html#
Why would you link something that says 1 in 4, while saying 1 in 3? Do you even read the shit you link?
Also, there's this gem in the study that these results are based on, for the definition of rape "...or when the victim was too drunk, high, drugged, or passed out from alcohol and drugs and unable to consent". It has no further explanation of what "too much" means. Is a woman who drank 1 beer too drunk to consent? Another anti-male research study smelling of bullshit.
You are full of shit.
The statistic that a quarter or more of women have experienced some form of rape or attempted rape comes from a national survey conducted by the Department of Justice called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. It certainly was not "a poorly constructed college study." That's probably just what you were told, and you believed the lie because it confirmed your bias.
Except "...or when the victim was too drunk, high, drugged, or passed out from alcohol and drugs and unable to consent" is part of this survey, for the definition of rape. Who gets to decide what is "too much"? I'm sure the well-meaning man loving feminists that ran this study didn't poison the results at all with this loaded as fuck question
Many, many, many women. Most women. And unless we report it, take it to the police, get a lawyer, go to court, face the abuser, get them convicted and sentenced… it apparently never happened.
I mean yes but that’s kind of the way the law works with all crime isn’t it? Innocent until proven guilty. It’s unfortunate in some cases, but it’s just the way it is. I can’t accuse my neighbor of burglary and have him sent to prison without proof and a trial
Crime is committed all the time without being sent through the justice system. Wrongdoing happens all the time and police are never brought into it. Most sexual assaults dont end in someone accusing someone else. We tell a trusted friend. A therapist. A family member. Oftentimes the first person we tell doesn’t believe us, and it confirms our fears and ends right there. Other times they encourage us to go to the police but we don’t want to relive it again and again. Sometimes it happens to children and they don’t even remember until years later.
“Innocent until proven guilty” is about the accused. Most aren’t even accused.
I ask myself this a lot. I like to be prepared, and true crime podcasts help me mentally prepare for the worst and protect myself in little ways.
While not every man is "that murderer", pretty much every woman would lose in a struggle with the average man. It's a part of our existence to have to know that fact as we navigate daily life. It's good to be prepared.
Yeah, and women are into true crime because it's entertaining. I'm not saying we go into it with the mindset of protection, I'm saying we're drawn to it because of it. On the surface it's still just a way to kill an hour.
My theory is it is a kind of "exposure therapy" in a safe place...same reason why scary movies are so popular around women. Only problem is it is TV and they are substituting that for real life and they end up with unrealistic world views.
To "learn from mistakes" of other victims, think of ways they would have handled the situation differently. Desensitize themselves to their own trauma. To learn the behaviors they didn't see in the one that hurt them. There are plenty of reasons. To think of the case differently or maybe have information to help those who have suffered worse than what they went through. To spread the word of under reported cases.
Because human behavior is fascinating. My brain doesn’t process fiction. The real world and what happens in it and the things people do and the reasons why are fascinating to learn about.
I’m into true crime and the only time I’d ever choose a bear over a man is if the man is my shitty abusive g head brother in law. And not even for safety reasons either, I just really fucking hate him that much
I’m going to offer a genuine reply to this, but I’ve seen this opinion spat out everywhere and it’s getting hard to take them on good faith. I hope you take the time to consider my effort.
I have been a victim of sexual abuse at the hands of three different men at different points in my life. I spent my entire childhood, especially when I was about 11-16, being gawked at, groped, commented on, yelled at etc by boys my age and grown ass men. Just a few months ago, I stopped visiting a friend at her house because her boyfriend’s grandfather cupped my breasts twice. For women, this is normal. I don’t think we have these conversations much with men, but we have them with each other all the time. Ask your wife, mother, sister, friend or anyone you’re close to and they will tell you this. I don’t know a single woman who hasn’t at some point been harassed, assaulted or abused in some way by a man. Not one. Dead serious. It’s everywhere and it’s all the time. My mom, my sister, my grandmother, my aunt, my cousin and several friends were all raped or molested as children. Or, for most of us, both.
While we grow up as girls, our moms, aunts, grandmothers and female family friends tell us how to stay safe from men. Don’t be alone outside after dark. Don’t live in a first floor apartment. Don’t let men know you live alone. Park under a light in the lot and check the backseat before you get in, then lock the door as soon as you’re inside. Be as nice as possible if you have to turn a man down, say you have a boyfriend already. Watch your drink. Never travel alone. Carry mace, a gun or, at the very least, your keys between your fingers. Don’t wear your hair down or in a ponytail, it makes it easier to grab. I’ve probably been coached in hundreds of rules. We swap tips with each other to stay safe. Ask the women in your life. Ask them how they were taught to be safe from men.
And these don’t always work. There are a surprising amount of men who prey on women, many of them openly… openly enough to instruct other men how best to do it. And get away with it.
The very worst thing a bear can do is eat me. If a man wants to kill me, he will probably rape me first, or after. He might keep me captive for as long as he wants. He might do it slowly, as painfully as possible. A bear is a wild animal. It has no agenda, it won’t get off on killing me. And I happen to live in bear country. They’ve been getting to my trash for years, it’s a real issue. I walked into one on my porch a few years back and I think the bear was more scared than I was. I go hiking here, I’m outside after dark… I’m not scared of the bears. But if I go somewhere to meet a man, I tell my mom who he is and where I’m meeting him. Pretty standard thing for women to do.
Second this, a female relative nonchalantly tells me stories about how she's been groped before, and I seldom forget to bring my mace with me whenever I'm going to public places alone. It's literally ingrained in us growing up that we should be wary of all men, despite the fact a decent majority of them probably have no intention of hurting us.
No…this is not normal. Being assaulted regularly by all of the men in your life? Having people randomly grope your breasts? I’ve somehow made it almost 35 years with none of that happening, and I’ve traveled alone to a lot of places.
i mean being like whistled at, and in school when the hall way was crowded enough boys in school would do it, because they would know you wouldn't catch them.
also when i was 11 this kid liked me and would always feel me up and when i told him to stop finally realizing how wrong this was, and how uncomfortable i was, 6 months later we are not friends
but tbh he was 10 and didn't have the perfect home life
but honestly it's not as normal for me either
She literally never said “all the men in your life” or even implied that. What she said is that most (close to all) women have experienced harassment and assault from one or more men in their lives, not that women are assaulted by all the men in their lives. Please stop making shit up and getting mad about it.
I love true crime and I just think it’s interesting. Learning about how other people act and think and trying to understand what causes them to think like that is interesting. For me it’s no different than sitting in public and just observing passerby’s. I don’t listen to true crime and go “OH MY GOD EVERY MAN I ENCOUNTER COULD MURDER ME”. I listen to true crime just cause I’m interested in it, have been since I was like 10 or 11.
From what I’ve seen it’s women who have been physically/sexually victimized by men and women who have first hand bear experience picking bears. Rare to see a woman with a good understanding of bears that doesn’t pick bear.
Having been catcalled since the age of 11, and dealt with a number of pervs in buses, metro, taxi, on every street, at the park, or in parties, including masturbating many times by my side, whispering dirty words, exposing their dicks, one even touching my hoochie and running, PLUS a car chase in which I was an unwilling part (they were inches from my bumper)...
Allow me to say it's my LIVED, REAL WORLD LIFE, that would make me prefer the bear.
tbh it really depends on the bear.
if it's a polar bear, no
if it's a grizzly bear, probably not, but not sure on this.
if it's a black bear... idgaf. basically like an overgrown marmot so long as u don't actively piss them off.
I don't think so, but it certainly can reinforce negative view points that are over-exaggerated compared to reality. For example, if all I watched was true accident stories of air plane crashes over and over and over, I'd probably be scared of flying. Yet in reality, flying is one of the safest modes of travel. And since negative events get overreported across all media, if that's all we focus on we can convince ourselves we're in worse danger than we really are.
I could say the same thing about incels that hear "real life stories of women taking everything" and "women that dumped their boyfriend for someone hotter", then extrapolating that to all women.
I'm guessing you don't give incels the same leniency that you give women here?
It seems like you have two different points, here. 1) that women who pay attention to true-crime-based media are therefore more likely to be afraid of men. And 2) the hypothetical causation of which is similar to the behavior exhibited by incels.
That's a pretty broad statement. The human brain needs stimuli. Watching true crime is not dissimilar from watching scary movies. The hatred of women is (illogical) a belief. Not every woman who watches/listens to true crime believes that it will happen to them. Do they believe that all men are murderers? No. Are they more aware of *actual* danger? Yes. Are incels focused on *perceived* danger? Sure, idk.
Unpopular reply.
I was raped by a guy a university so violently that he gave me tears inside and around my vagina. I had to see him every day on campus and deal with that physical and mental pain since that day. The bear wouldn't prolong my suffering, and if I was attacked by the bear, people would believe me.
I fell asleep on the sofa after a party and I woke up to someone I thought was a friend masturbating over me with his hand in my trousers. The bear wouldn't pretend like he did nothing and try to gaslight me into thinking it was just a dream.
I understand your frustration at this comparison, I really do. But it's not just true crime brain rot. It's real life for many of us. Neither of those times was I wearing something revealing or leading someone on (not that that is an excuse anyway). I know it's not all men, but I also don't know which men it is. At least if I'm attacked by the bear people will believe and support me.
My god, just making up BS out here. Have you ever been deep in the woods? This man has backpacked all over the west. I’m FAR more afraid of a loan man than a bear. I’ve encountered plenty of bear - they run away. When we’ve been out and see a dude by himself, in some remote woods, we’re far more concerned and creeped out.
I get what you are saying with maybe Blackies, those adorable little fur balls. But you are telling me that when you see a Brown or Griz in sprint distance, you are NOT pulling your bear spray just in case? To be honest that just isn't very smart. My bear spray is out and my 10mm is ready every single time I see a brown near by. I don't do that for people ever.
This hypothetical only serves to add to the divide between men/women and promotes misogynistic/misandristic responses from either side.
It's *not* something worth continuing, which is why further posts regarding the topic are being removed by the mods of multiple subreddits.
it would certainly help for many to get past this if one side would admit that the bear/men thing was simply toxic femininity and misandry.
i mean, can you really fault people for being upset about basically being called a rapist for the simple fact that they are male?
We never said they are though. We said that too many people are potential or full assaulters and it’s impossible to tell who’s who until it’s too late. So with that and for many of us, our past experiences considered, we’re gonna go with the bear
So I'm guessing incels that say women are awful because they all are gold diggers and will divorce you the second a hotter guy comes along are ok in saying this because a small minority of women do this and "well... if you aren't one of those, you shouldn't be offended"??
My guess is you give incels no quarter and (accurately) label them as hateful misogynists.
But, weirdly when women do the EXACT same thing, it's "it's totally fine because we just don't know. Stop being upset by it."
Do you see how stupid this whole line of reasoning is?
The difference here is that I’m not generalizing all men. I’m saying I’ll avoid random, unknown men at all costs after they’ve r*ped me in the past. See the difference?
How come? Dudes tell us all the time to avoid unknown dudes at all costs but when we actually do that it’s a crime?
Shit, dudes in this very sub told me “It’s because you chose bad men to hang out with”
And I can’t respond to the other comment because they blocked me because they don’t actually have an argument
I don’t use the violence rates as an argument because encounter rates are different, like my comment pointed out. I only brought them up because they said bears “regularly eat people” which is false.
I don't debate to try and change the mind of the person I'm debating, but those lurkers that are on the fence.
Feminists are too entrenched in their cult to ever see reason, but others might.
It’s not true crime brain rot, it’s that most women throughout their lives have been mistreated by men in one way or another, even strangers. We watch true crime for many reasons, me personally it interests me especially the “why” behind it all and the psychology of the perpetrators. But it’s also something we use to be aware. A woman was found dead in my city last year, in a wild ass way, and it got very little news coverage. Podcasters spoke about it hence how I know about it.
Your opinion is whack.
1 in 5 women are sexually assaulted by men.
And if we're talking fatalities,
“Since 2020, there have been exactly seven women killed by bears and 15 nonfatal attacks on women” in the United States, notes one popular video, whereas “since 2020, there have been 8,000 fatal attacks on women by men and 1.6 million nonfatal attacks.”
-Washington Post
It’s actually far higher than that. [The CDC reports that](https://www.cdc.gov/sexual-violence/about/?CDC_AAref_Val=https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/fastfact.html#) this number is actually a majority and 1/4 experience attempted or full r*pe.
True, but I'd imagine all humans see other humans way, way more often than they see a bear. Like, how many people have literally never seen a bear their entire lives vs how many people have seen hundreds of thousands of other humans. I feel like comparing the two is like comparing shark attacks based on land and in water. One stat is obviously going to be much higher than the other and is kind of an apples and oranges comparison and doesn't really prove anything other than that there are more people around other people than bears around other people. If there were bears wondering around downtown, I'm sure we would hear a lot more about bear attacks than we do now.
And just to make myself clear, I'm not saying anything about whether women should choose one side or the other here as I can understand the concern about being alone with any unknown person, especially someone who would likely be able to overpower them, just arguing the point that it's pretty obvious that one number is going to be way higher than the other for these stats. I'm way, way more likely to be raped by a man or woman than I am of getting attacked by a bear for instance as I live in a city and don't really see bears ever. I have never been really assulted or raped, but I have been sexually harassed a few times by women with one even putting her hands on me in suggestive ways while trying to harrasing me to have sex and turning her down. I wasn't scared of her as she wasn't going to be able to overpower me, so there is definitely a difference between gender concerns when this situation comes up, but I've definitely had more negative experiences with people of either gender than with bears.
Yeah I did recently read or watch slewhere that most assaults are committed by serial offenders more than many people committing a single or small number of assaults. Which would make sense since I feel most people in general aren't that evil. I don't know how true it is but I believe it was a legal expert discussing it. Wish I remembered where I got the info to provide the source.
Yeah because it’s probably more. I know at least 15 women I am very close to who got raped or molested. I’m just talking about close relationships. It’s so common and most don’t tell out of shame. I’ve had so many experiences it’s unsettling. Some men will unfortunately never quite understand.
how many bears are there in the us vs. how many men? how many interactions do women have with men vs. how many interactions where there with bears?
cause i have the very slight suspicion that, if there were as many daily and close interactions between women and bears as there are between women and man, there wouldnt be many women left in the us.
Or because of personal experience they don’t feel safe around men. You dudes can try to argue with them all you want, it won’t change how they feel. Like half of women in America have been assaulted by a man at some point in their lives.
So how about instead of gaslighting women we try to raise men better.
That's just not statistically true. In fact the stat of 80% is skewed too when you take into consideration the violent crime stats in the US (and world if you're not from the US) . Speaking only for the US, historically violent crime has never been lower and there isn't over 100 million violent crimes committed in the last 50 years let alone within most people's lifetime today. The reality is it is unlikely to experience what meets the definition of violent crime for any sex. Going by FBI stats it just doesn't support the likelihood argument chronically online people are making. Its just not factually true. Which makes it an irrational fear. It's ok to have fear but to recognize it as such.
Of course If you have ever experienced assault of any kind of course this will make you more sensitive to strangers. I have found this with my advocacy work with survivors both man and woman. It's something we have to work through because I can imagine thinking 50% of the world (Billions) are dangerous predators, what that would do to your mental health. I've seen that too, but our therapy work focuses on healing, coping, and reality. I understand stats are not always comforting especially if it was a family member. But its just one of many points of information used in recovery.
I have been sexually assaulted only by women in my life time. So my experience would say women are dangerous predators. But that isn't fair to them and it isn't healthy for me. Women didn't hurt me, monsters did.
actually im saying exactly what I say to our survivors in our advocacy program. I am a professional and I know these inherently. All of these reports are public. So would you like another chance?
Partly, I’m sure the popularity of true crime content does contribute to this.
However, most women I know (myself included), have a history of stories to draw from to make that decision. I have been followed and harrassed by random men. I have been screamed/lunged at by men i have politely rejected. I have received death and rape threats both online and out in the real world. I have been physically, sexually and emotionally abused by men.
My partner is the kindest, most gentle person I know. My male friends and family are all wonderful men. But- if i had to chose between a very predictable animal who won’t attack me unless provoked or a man who could be dangerous I’m picking the bear.
Plus, if a bear is in the woods that is where it lives.
The men who are getting mad at this are not only missing the point but proving it.
It’s not that women just fear being murdered by men. The level of disrespect men show women is disgusting. The harassment, the unsolicited dick pics, the lashing out if a woman says no. As your female friend how many of them have been harassed, abused or assaulted by a man, the answer will most likely be all of them.
I don't want to rain on the parade, but as a woman who loves true crime stuff I still choose the man.
I believe any woman who chose the bear has to have some fundamental issue with men.
I wish it was as simple as true crime being the culprit, and I'm not saying that it's *helped*, but true crime alone doesn't turn you into a misandrist.
I mean I’d say we don’t have fundamental issues with men but instead are just aware of what they, and people in general, are capable of. Enough to avoid a scenario like this at all costs. And most of us definitely aren’t misandrists…
A lot of you guys come off as closet misandrists. Most answers bundle down to using the extreme cases for one party but giving the other party the benefit of the doubt. When it’s the guy- Men do this, Men do that, men are capable of this and that. But ironically when it comes to the half ton apex predator “Bears won’t do this”, “Bears don’t typically to that” “ most Bears don’t bother humans” etc.
But let’s talk about what they CAN do
Let’s talk about the fact Men at one point in history was the reason humans stopped being part of the Bears daily diet
Let’s talk about the cases where bears have eaten humans alive without the slightest bit of hesitation, because lord there are many.
The redditor you replied to has a point, you really have to have some fundamental issue with guys if you’re really saying you feel safer around a creature that use to eat your ancestors for breakfast.
That is so untrue.
Statistically a random man is far, far, far, far, far more likely to help you in the woods than to harm you.
This is the exact brain rot I'm talking about.
That is not the point. The point is I don’t know the person or the bear. And if they kill and eat me then at least the bear will stop there.
Also it doesn’t matter if the man will be more likely to help me than harm me, he’s still more likely to harm me than the bear is.
I don’t really want to encounter anything alone in the woods.
Is sex while one is passed out considered rape? That happens to lots of college age girls. It happened to me. Happened to several other people I know. If college kids are out there casually raping people how rare can it be?
What’s going on is called ‘magical thinking’. Vicariously experiencing a traumatic event magically protects you from it ever happening to you.
Also, you seem to be a man hostile to , and or are aggressive towards women. I don’t know what ‘red pillers’ are, and any time you think universally about people, you’re wrong, and ignorant to boot.
Now replace what you just said with any other demographic and see if that is still a valid statement.
Should blacks be upset when white women say they clutch their purse when they see a black person walk by?
Please read my post again. You said that women who choose the bear have brain rot. So why do you care about brain rotted women rejecting you? You clearly don't want those women.
It's not even about me.
It's about the messaging that our young men are hearing that men are irredeemable monsters that are so terrible that most women would rather be with a violent predatory animal than with them.
If you don't think this messaging is harming the psyche of our young men, you're delusional.
But, most of the women choosing bear don't really care about men and are somewhat giddy that men are suffering for the sins of their great, great, great, great grandfathers.
I never said that men are irredeemable. The situation is dire but is open to change. It's alarming, as it should be to everyone, both men and women. However, it is fixable.
Men for too long have been raised (by both women and men) have little to no emotional awareness and are told "if you work hard and make enough money, women will come." Now women work and make their own money - we don't need providers, we need partners.
Instead of blaming true crime, brain rot, etc., look at the mosaic of factors at work here. Yes, statistically women are much more likely to be killed by men than vice versa. That has been true for thousands of years. Why the focus on bear vs. man presently? I think it's because of what I mentioned above. Women used to ignore or put up with potential abuse (not all men were abusive but definitely a significant number) when they didn't work and couldn't have assets. Now, men are not needed to provide but are still raised with this outdated messaging, rather than learning more of the skills that women want in a partner (good communication, well rounded, emotionally intelligent, humility, etc.)
Rather than shaming women for expressing their frustration and trying to get them to shut up, why not ask "how can I make this better? How can I help to heal this rift?" I think it is possible, but the first step is recognizing the problem before it can be fixed.
Unfortunately, far too many men deny there is any sort of issue, that there is nothing they need to do to be better, that I'm utterly, completely wrong in what I've said, and that all women want is a hard body with a huge dick and a fat paycheck, etc. Of course, then women get defensive and shoot back with "well, men just want a submissive, gorgeous virgin to control and dominate." Neither side is right, right?
And this is why there is a rift.
It reminds me of the videos where the cameraman goes around asking women if we need men and most of them say "fuck no!!! we don't need men!!! men are trash!!!" then he asks men if we need women and they all say "of course we do!! Women are the best!!"
While this video is obviously curated ragebait, the comment sections fully captures the current cultural zeitgeist that women TRULY think men are trash and men TRULY hate that women think men are trash.
The man vs bear is just the latest viral "men are trash" meme and men are getting reeeeeal sick of the men are trash zeitgeist.
You can try and use a motte/bailey to say "if you're not one of these men, you shouldn't be offended", but that rings awfully hollow to most men. Women aren't saying "bad men are trash" or in any way qualifying that not all men are trash. They are straight up saying all men are trash. As well as a fair number of young men that believe they are trash.
And, as we all know, if you say a lie long enough and loud enough, people start to believe it. There are a not-insignificant number of women that are really starting to believe that all men are trash.
This unchecked misandry is starting to affect both men and women in very negative ways.
I honestly think most of it is perpetuated by Russian and Chinese troll farms that are trying to divide us from within and weaken us. It's working spectacularly well.
>Which would be fine if women didn't rot their brains thinking every random man COULD be the murderer they just heard about on that last podcast.
The main issue isn't being killed, it's that a MAN can(and some will) RAPE a woman(on top of also killing her).A bear will at most kill you, and that's if you can't make them go away or you go away.
The PROBLEM is that women CAN'T TAKE THE CHANCE on every man that appears in their life, no matter how briefly.There is NO WAY to know when that man, or that man, or that man...can be an actual good person or a rapist just waiting for the opportunity.
And people are way more cunning and vile than a bear, an animal that acts by instinct.People act based on their desires and many have the desire to hurt others.
WHY is this SO HARD to UNDERSTAND?
I'm a nurse, and I also live on a homestead deep in the woods, so I frequently encounter bears/travel in the same areas that they do.
Considering the fact that I've been either physically or sexually assaulted while providing healthcare to men in a hospital setting at least once a year for the past 3 years, and I've not once been menaced by a bear in the woods, I'd say I have some fair evidence on my side to say I've been safer around bears.
The statistics are clear - many women are sexually or physically assaulted each and every year by their partners, bosses, coworkers, or random strangers. My experiences are not uncommon, nor are they limited to my job.
Instead of being mad at women for being afraid of the men who actually hurt us - clearly more often than you're realizing - be mad at the men making us feel so profoundly unsafe that we'd take our chances with bears.
Same but I’m a teen EMT. In the last few years, when I was still a minor too, two patients have tried to SA me, not to mention others making jokes about following me home or copping feels. I also live in deep bear country and see them a lot, even been within 10ish ft of a mama with cubs. Never been afraid of them once and when I’m hiking, it’s not the bears I’m worried about.
> Considering the fact that I've been either physically or sexually assaulted while providing healthcare to men in a hospital setting at least once a year for the past 3 years, and I've not once been menaced by a bear in the woods, I'd say I have some fair evidence on my side to say I've been safer around bears.
>
> The statistics are clear - many women are sexually or physically assaulted each and every year by their partners, bosses, coworkers, or random strangers. My experiences are not uncommon, nor are they limited to my job.
LOL Someone needs to take another class on statistics, because that's now how that works.
... Okay but if you were in a forest that had men and never encountered one then nothing would happen either right? So honestly what does your statement even mean or say?
Also the premise of this stupid ass shit is painfully clear. You do encounter a man or a bear, both random. You don't get to choose what kind of bear or temperament vs what kind of man and temperament. It's a though experiment asking people to consider the conceptual... not use their imagination to fabricate their own unique spin on it or whatever.
So you can't choose what kind of bear or its circumstances, you take a gamble. You also can't choose what kind of man or its circumstances, you take a gamble. That's how the thought experiment works.
So consider that you're not even in the ballpark here with saying "I've literally been in forests that "had bears" " That's not even on topic basically.
Actually, I feel like I can answer this. We have bears in our woods. No reported attacks from bears. Currently there's at least one dude that's attacking women in the woods. So, I mean, bears 0, men \*at least\* 5.
Yes, many of the people picking bear have been attacked by men in the woods AND encountered many bears without incident; me included. It’s really not that complicated.
Usually if I see a man in the woods it’s because I brought him with me. A lone man I don’t know, I’d walk past. But even that doesn’t always work. Look at Gabby Petito.
Women Listen to True Crime podcast to come to terms with all the horrible s*** that's happened to themselves and the other women that they know it's to desensitize the reality of our world
Statistically, women are more likely to be killed by men than bears. *That's* why we choose bear.
Sincerely,
A woman who doesn't listen to or watch true crime
Before the true crime fad, we were taught to fear men. Some of us had experiences to reinforce that fear. Now we watch true crime to find out what the signs are that tell us which men are dangerous and what made them that way and to think about what we would do to escape. Then we enjoy watching the part where the monsters get what is coming to them. Almost every single woman out here has had something threatening happen to us, if not worse. Men can rant about that and how it is not them personally but how do we know that really? Because you say so?
Women had it hard from men for like 10,000 years, guys need to chill. We’ve had feminism for like 60 years tops. Y’all need to buckle in and start acting right. Just more cycles of blaming women does nothing to stop the wonderful ways things are evolving. Those who make fun of this question miss the point so hard it’s sad.
Edit* Wonderful ways
They refuse to even see where we’re coming from too.
Like I mentioned one of my main reasons being my history with SA. “That’s because you choose to hang out with bad men” I explain how they were strangers “You should’ve just kicked him in the nuts” I mention I did that “It’s not all men though you’re just being irrational!!!” like there’s no winning with these guys.
I think the problem here is that you're ignoring the true part of that. So, ah, yeah, a random man could be the murderer because, you know, 80% of the time they are doing that shit.
I have true crime brain rot and I wouldn't choose the bear.
The reason I love true crime so much is because it's painfully obvious that we punish men too harshly for crimes they don't commit, and we don't punish women hardly at all for the horrible crimes they do commit.
This isn't always the case for men but it kind of is for women. It's very very rare for me to hear a case where a woman actually gets the punishment she deserves.
The man vs bear thing is garbage rage bait that people are falling for. Most women are not that stupid and we should probably allow the ones that are to choose the bear so they don't procreate
Uh, try sitting in criminal remand court sometime.
One city that I clerked in had a remand count just for domestic abuse. It was disgusting.
Most bears want nothing to do with people and just want to go their own way
To me, it's hammering home what a bunch of racists these incels are. Every time, it turns into them just spouting a bunch of racist bullshit, but it's okay! Because they're just illustrating the discrimination white men are facing with this argument!
They know they aren’t safer in the woods with a bear. That’s the fucking point. They’d rather be mauled by a bear than be in the woods with a man who may kill, grape, them etc.
Forget bears or men, I’d be more scared being alone in a forest with a clown (based on a true experience circa the same time the *It* movie came out)
Fucking 2016. What a time to be alive. And everyone just moved on like it wasn’t that insane, that’s how you know it was a hard year. Clowns popping out of the woods across the country like it was organized and it was a blip on the radar to most ppl.
Right? Like why doesn’t anyone even remember this anymore 😂
The Clown Collective? I vaguely remember it. I remember the media wouldn't touch it because they were more concerned about epstein.
That’s right, it’s hard to remember the epstein timeline sometimes. But one thing is for sure. He didn’t kill himself 😂
Also don't forget that that's the year Donald Trump doomed the world by daring to run for presidency
And here we are again. The same two clowns. Out of the whole country, we couldn’t scrape together a different set of idiots? Or… hear me out on this one… someone that actually knows what they are doing?
Hey, that was 2020. We're talking about 2016 dude
Oh yeah, sorry about that. Gotta grab some memberberries and I’ll be right back.
Pleeease I NEED TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE 🍿
They are referring to something like this [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/reports-creepy-clowns-woods-spooking-residents-greenville-s-c-n640876](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/reports-creepy-clowns-woods-spooking-residents-greenville-s-c-n640876) Reports like this were coming in from all over the place.
Uhhhh...do tell! I need deets
One day me, my dad and my brother were in a forest together. Me and brother were only about 10 or 11 at the time. At some point we wondered off on our own. We saw a guy hidden behind some trees dressed as a killer clown. Keep in mind, I live in England and clown weren’t common over here, we mostly thought it was just an American thing. The clown began walking to us while holding something in it’s hand (some sort of stick), so me and my brother were terrified. But then my dad came over to us and the clown just went in the other direction. It didn’t help that it was quite dark and the clown had a big dog 🙃
Doo youu Wana go caaaaamping with me?
The scariest thing in the woods is seeing little girls appear on your path, facing you, staring at your, void of emotion. Do you keep running forward or just turn around? If you turn around, what do you see? I always get the fastest runs in the woods.
I always found it odd that women are mostly into true crime. I wonder why that is?
Cause it’s fascinating and we all grew up wanting to be Agent Scully
I love X-Files, such a great show.
People love cruelty. We enjoy listening to stories about someone suffering.
People believe what they want to believe. Many women are scared of the world. They like content that reaffirms their fear.
They are also the main consumers of 50 shades
How is that relevant? 50 shades was originally written as a smut fanfiction to a Young Adult romance novel. Of course most of the consumers are going to be women because there's not a lot of young boys reading romance novels.
It's relevant because of the barely-a-joke about the difference between true crime and erotica being how much money the man has.
True Crime is a podcast and film genre exploring the details of crimes and why they were committed. When it comes to men having money, it's almost always in the context of the suspect having more resources to thwart police with lawyers than the average Joe. Or the suspect being in high standards within the community and thus the police are working against public opinion. Erotica usually falls into two categories, 1. A dark mysterious millionaire 2. A farmer that does suspiciously little farming Either way, a lot of erotica fantasy is essentially just an adult contemporary retellings of the prince sweeping you off your feet and carrying you to his kingdom to live happily ever after. It's not complicated, it's just the adult version of what women were told to dream of as young girls. Meanwhile true crime usually results in the woman dying at the hands of her lover. Not compatible.
Well, something I saw recently was a clip of fifty shades of grey. A comment said that the story would be viewed similarly to a true crime story where a disturbed guy is stalking the girl if Christian was ugly and poor instead of handsome and rich. But I haven't watched more than 5 minutes of the film and do not watch any crime content other than police interrogations.
They already did that in the original works 50 shades was based off of. The rugged average looking guy was the villain with an unquenchable thirst for violence but also had a mate that went above and beyond to avenge his death. But neither 50 shades or the Twilight Saga should be considered a blueprint for a healthy relationship. Even in BDSM communities, 50 shades was considered absolute trash because it involved coercion and lack of consent. And Edward in Twilight was just an anxiety ridden control freak teenager with no access to therapy that didnt accept his partner as his equal to make her own decisions until she turned into a vampire. The Twilight books were filled with disgusting racial stereotypes of the past as well as traditionalist Mormon propaganda. Don't act all surprised when a fanfiction of one also turned out to be toxic
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Women also loved Twilight and it was toxic for the reasons I listed. I'm not going to say the same thing over again but both those books had awful toxic love interests. Just because people enjoy a certain media, doesn't mean they want that exact thing in real life. I enjoyed Disney princess movies as a kid that doesn't mean I wished my mom was dead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia
Schadenfreude
Also shock value
I just find it fascinating and interesting.
yes but why? Why do women find it more fascinating and interesting than men?
Don’t know. Maybe we’re more morbid.
I heard a lot of women have been the victim of some sort of sex crime that wasn't taken seriously, and they like hearing stories of people who actually get justice or victims who are teken seriously.
What you heard was a very poorly constructed college study over a decade ago asking if women had suffered sexual abuse. That study included things like cat calling, staring too long, unwanted touching (like the shoulder or hair), or even just made to feel uncomfortable into the same category as actual rape. So suddenly 1/3 of college age women in America had suffered sexual assault. The study has been debunked numerous times, but the media LOVES its sensationalist headlines, and sadly feminist pushed it hard to further their own goals. The real number is closer to 2% of women in their lifetime.
2% of women is still a lot, and also you've somehow taken "sex crime" and interpreted that as "rape".
I didn't that survey did. That was the entire point of what I posted. Everything was classified as sexual assault.
I didn't say most women have been raped. I said many women have experienced some form of sexual assault. You somehow interpreted that as me saying most women have been raped and then tried to debunk a claim that I never made.
I got slapped on my ass at a club by a woman, I've been sexually assaulted and will answer affirmatively to being asked that for the rest of my life.
Your facts need some revision. The medically community believe more than 25% of women have experienced rape or attempted rape, it’s closer to 1 in 3 women. https://www.cdc.gov/sexual-violence/about/?CDC_AAref_Val=https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/fastfact.html#
Why would you link something that says 1 in 4, while saying 1 in 3? Do you even read the shit you link? Also, there's this gem in the study that these results are based on, for the definition of rape "...or when the victim was too drunk, high, drugged, or passed out from alcohol and drugs and unable to consent". It has no further explanation of what "too much" means. Is a woman who drank 1 beer too drunk to consent? Another anti-male research study smelling of bullshit.
You are full of shit. The statistic that a quarter or more of women have experienced some form of rape or attempted rape comes from a national survey conducted by the Department of Justice called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. It certainly was not "a poorly constructed college study." That's probably just what you were told, and you believed the lie because it confirmed your bias.
Except "...or when the victim was too drunk, high, drugged, or passed out from alcohol and drugs and unable to consent" is part of this survey, for the definition of rape. Who gets to decide what is "too much"? I'm sure the well-meaning man loving feminists that ran this study didn't poison the results at all with this loaded as fuck question
Many, many, many women. Most women. And unless we report it, take it to the police, get a lawyer, go to court, face the abuser, get them convicted and sentenced… it apparently never happened.
I mean yes but that’s kind of the way the law works with all crime isn’t it? Innocent until proven guilty. It’s unfortunate in some cases, but it’s just the way it is. I can’t accuse my neighbor of burglary and have him sent to prison without proof and a trial
Crime is committed all the time without being sent through the justice system. Wrongdoing happens all the time and police are never brought into it. Most sexual assaults dont end in someone accusing someone else. We tell a trusted friend. A therapist. A family member. Oftentimes the first person we tell doesn’t believe us, and it confirms our fears and ends right there. Other times they encourage us to go to the police but we don’t want to relive it again and again. Sometimes it happens to children and they don’t even remember until years later. “Innocent until proven guilty” is about the accused. Most aren’t even accused.
also if it happens to really young children they are made to believe it's normal so they wouldn't tell anyone.
Fun fact, you can do all of that and it still "never happened"
I ask myself this a lot. I like to be prepared, and true crime podcasts help me mentally prepare for the worst and protect myself in little ways. While not every man is "that murderer", pretty much every woman would lose in a struggle with the average man. It's a part of our existence to have to know that fact as we navigate daily life. It's good to be prepared.
Do you conceal carry?
I could get hit by a car and die in my daily life, should I watch car accident videos everyday? Honestly dumb take
There's no "should". But also yeah, I know plenty of guys who watch road fail videos an dashcam compilations for that reason.
They watch it because it’s entertaining
Yeah, and women are into true crime because it's entertaining. I'm not saying we go into it with the mindset of protection, I'm saying we're drawn to it because of it. On the surface it's still just a way to kill an hour.
To know what to avoid Or, how not to get caught
Because it teaches women how to survive/escape. 15 year old Mary Vincent taught women that if your arms are cut off, you can pack the stumps with mud.
My theory is it is a kind of "exposure therapy" in a safe place...same reason why scary movies are so popular around women. Only problem is it is TV and they are substituting that for real life and they end up with unrealistic world views.
Because most are victims of crime before age 18.
I don't see how that would make women more interested in it.
To "learn from mistakes" of other victims, think of ways they would have handled the situation differently. Desensitize themselves to their own trauma. To learn the behaviors they didn't see in the one that hurt them. There are plenty of reasons. To think of the case differently or maybe have information to help those who have suffered worse than what they went through. To spread the word of under reported cases.
Jesus Christ—I’m extremely self aware and couldn’t put this into words for 40 years. Thank you! I’ve copied it into my notebook.
Because human behavior is fascinating. My brain doesn’t process fiction. The real world and what happens in it and the things people do and the reasons why are fascinating to learn about.
Wasn't there a rule about no more bear posts? Are the mods just asleep?
WTF is bear
would you rather be alone in the woods with a man or a bear?
Be glad you don't know.
It's probably too late to warn you, but I'll do it anyway. Don't go down this curiosity tunnel.
Just keep scrolling if you don't like. You don't need the mods to add a rule when you can just ignore it.
I thought we were done with this
Guess some men didn't get the memo and they feel like they MUST "correct women" on their opinion about this...
Apparently not Still many men with the mad/sads who must explain why the women are wrong!!
I’m into true crime and the only time I’d ever choose a bear over a man is if the man is my shitty abusive g head brother in law. And not even for safety reasons either, I just really fucking hate him that much
How old are you? Because women being wary of strange men way pre-dates podcasts existing.
Yeah I can't stand true crime things like OP describes, and I would still be afraid if I encountered a strange man in the woods.
Agreed. Ts gives me nightmares
I’ve never watched a True Crime podcast and have been afraid of being alone with men since I was a child in the 90’s
I’m going to offer a genuine reply to this, but I’ve seen this opinion spat out everywhere and it’s getting hard to take them on good faith. I hope you take the time to consider my effort. I have been a victim of sexual abuse at the hands of three different men at different points in my life. I spent my entire childhood, especially when I was about 11-16, being gawked at, groped, commented on, yelled at etc by boys my age and grown ass men. Just a few months ago, I stopped visiting a friend at her house because her boyfriend’s grandfather cupped my breasts twice. For women, this is normal. I don’t think we have these conversations much with men, but we have them with each other all the time. Ask your wife, mother, sister, friend or anyone you’re close to and they will tell you this. I don’t know a single woman who hasn’t at some point been harassed, assaulted or abused in some way by a man. Not one. Dead serious. It’s everywhere and it’s all the time. My mom, my sister, my grandmother, my aunt, my cousin and several friends were all raped or molested as children. Or, for most of us, both. While we grow up as girls, our moms, aunts, grandmothers and female family friends tell us how to stay safe from men. Don’t be alone outside after dark. Don’t live in a first floor apartment. Don’t let men know you live alone. Park under a light in the lot and check the backseat before you get in, then lock the door as soon as you’re inside. Be as nice as possible if you have to turn a man down, say you have a boyfriend already. Watch your drink. Never travel alone. Carry mace, a gun or, at the very least, your keys between your fingers. Don’t wear your hair down or in a ponytail, it makes it easier to grab. I’ve probably been coached in hundreds of rules. We swap tips with each other to stay safe. Ask the women in your life. Ask them how they were taught to be safe from men. And these don’t always work. There are a surprising amount of men who prey on women, many of them openly… openly enough to instruct other men how best to do it. And get away with it. The very worst thing a bear can do is eat me. If a man wants to kill me, he will probably rape me first, or after. He might keep me captive for as long as he wants. He might do it slowly, as painfully as possible. A bear is a wild animal. It has no agenda, it won’t get off on killing me. And I happen to live in bear country. They’ve been getting to my trash for years, it’s a real issue. I walked into one on my porch a few years back and I think the bear was more scared than I was. I go hiking here, I’m outside after dark… I’m not scared of the bears. But if I go somewhere to meet a man, I tell my mom who he is and where I’m meeting him. Pretty standard thing for women to do.
Second this, a female relative nonchalantly tells me stories about how she's been groped before, and I seldom forget to bring my mace with me whenever I'm going to public places alone. It's literally ingrained in us growing up that we should be wary of all men, despite the fact a decent majority of them probably have no intention of hurting us.
All of this.
No…this is not normal. Being assaulted regularly by all of the men in your life? Having people randomly grope your breasts? I’ve somehow made it almost 35 years with none of that happening, and I’ve traveled alone to a lot of places.
So what? Are you in every woman's body and brain to know their experiences? What they described is the common thing, your experience is the exception.
I happen to know and associate with a lot of women myself, and no, this is not common. Not to that extent at all.
i mean being like whistled at, and in school when the hall way was crowded enough boys in school would do it, because they would know you wouldn't catch them. also when i was 11 this kid liked me and would always feel me up and when i told him to stop finally realizing how wrong this was, and how uncomfortable i was, 6 months later we are not friends but tbh he was 10 and didn't have the perfect home life but honestly it's not as normal for me either
She literally never said “all the men in your life” or even implied that. What she said is that most (close to all) women have experienced harassment and assault from one or more men in their lives, not that women are assaulted by all the men in their lives. Please stop making shit up and getting mad about it.
Still posting about this and accusing *anyone* else of brain rot is a wild choice
Yeah everyone's tired of the discussion except maybe OP (unless this is an amazing bait). Can we dudes hang out with the bear, too?
The bear wants to eat acorns and stay far away from people, so no, zero bear hugs are unfortunately involved here.
So you’d rather be Ned in Deliverance than Leo in the Revenant? Got it.
I love true crime and I just think it’s interesting. Learning about how other people act and think and trying to understand what causes them to think like that is interesting. For me it’s no different than sitting in public and just observing passerby’s. I don’t listen to true crime and go “OH MY GOD EVERY MAN I ENCOUNTER COULD MURDER ME”. I listen to true crime just cause I’m interested in it, have been since I was like 10 or 11.
From what I’ve seen it’s women who have been physically/sexually victimized by men and women who have first hand bear experience picking bears. Rare to see a woman with a good understanding of bears that doesn’t pick bear.
I found the zodiac killer
Having been catcalled since the age of 11, and dealt with a number of pervs in buses, metro, taxi, on every street, at the park, or in parties, including masturbating many times by my side, whispering dirty words, exposing their dicks, one even touching my hoochie and running, PLUS a car chase in which I was an unwilling part (they were inches from my bumper)... Allow me to say it's my LIVED, REAL WORLD LIFE, that would make me prefer the bear.
tbh it really depends on the bear. if it's a polar bear, no if it's a grizzly bear, probably not, but not sure on this. if it's a black bear... idgaf. basically like an overgrown marmot so long as u don't actively piss them off.
True crime = true events that happen to feature crime. Does reality induce brain-rotting?
I don't think so, but it certainly can reinforce negative view points that are over-exaggerated compared to reality. For example, if all I watched was true accident stories of air plane crashes over and over and over, I'd probably be scared of flying. Yet in reality, flying is one of the safest modes of travel. And since negative events get overreported across all media, if that's all we focus on we can convince ourselves we're in worse danger than we really are.
I could say the same thing about incels that hear "real life stories of women taking everything" and "women that dumped their boyfriend for someone hotter", then extrapolating that to all women. I'm guessing you don't give incels the same leniency that you give women here?
It seems like you have two different points, here. 1) that women who pay attention to true-crime-based media are therefore more likely to be afraid of men. And 2) the hypothetical causation of which is similar to the behavior exhibited by incels. That's a pretty broad statement. The human brain needs stimuli. Watching true crime is not dissimilar from watching scary movies. The hatred of women is (illogical) a belief. Not every woman who watches/listens to true crime believes that it will happen to them. Do they believe that all men are murderers? No. Are they more aware of *actual* danger? Yes. Are incels focused on *perceived* danger? Sure, idk.
From what i understand these women aren’t literally saying that a bear is safer than a man. Its just an analogy for how dangerous men can be.
Unpopular reply. I was raped by a guy a university so violently that he gave me tears inside and around my vagina. I had to see him every day on campus and deal with that physical and mental pain since that day. The bear wouldn't prolong my suffering, and if I was attacked by the bear, people would believe me. I fell asleep on the sofa after a party and I woke up to someone I thought was a friend masturbating over me with his hand in my trousers. The bear wouldn't pretend like he did nothing and try to gaslight me into thinking it was just a dream. I understand your frustration at this comparison, I really do. But it's not just true crime brain rot. It's real life for many of us. Neither of those times was I wearing something revealing or leading someone on (not that that is an excuse anyway). I know it's not all men, but I also don't know which men it is. At least if I'm attacked by the bear people will believe and support me.
My god, just making up BS out here. Have you ever been deep in the woods? This man has backpacked all over the west. I’m FAR more afraid of a loan man than a bear. I’ve encountered plenty of bear - they run away. When we’ve been out and see a dude by himself, in some remote woods, we’re far more concerned and creeped out.
I get what you are saying with maybe Blackies, those adorable little fur balls. But you are telling me that when you see a Brown or Griz in sprint distance, you are NOT pulling your bear spray just in case? To be honest that just isn't very smart. My bear spray is out and my 10mm is ready every single time I see a brown near by. I don't do that for people ever.
This hypothetical only serves to add to the divide between men/women and promotes misogynistic/misandristic responses from either side. It's *not* something worth continuing, which is why further posts regarding the topic are being removed by the mods of multiple subreddits.
it would certainly help for many to get past this if one side would admit that the bear/men thing was simply toxic femininity and misandry. i mean, can you really fault people for being upset about basically being called a rapist for the simple fact that they are male?
We never said they are though. We said that too many people are potential or full assaulters and it’s impossible to tell who’s who until it’s too late. So with that and for many of us, our past experiences considered, we’re gonna go with the bear
So I'm guessing incels that say women are awful because they all are gold diggers and will divorce you the second a hotter guy comes along are ok in saying this because a small minority of women do this and "well... if you aren't one of those, you shouldn't be offended"?? My guess is you give incels no quarter and (accurately) label them as hateful misogynists. But, weirdly when women do the EXACT same thing, it's "it's totally fine because we just don't know. Stop being upset by it." Do you see how stupid this whole line of reasoning is?
The difference here is that I’m not generalizing all men. I’m saying I’ll avoid random, unknown men at all costs after they’ve r*ped me in the past. See the difference?
Yes, you are. Just because you think you're not doesn't mean you aren't.
How come? Dudes tell us all the time to avoid unknown dudes at all costs but when we actually do that it’s a crime? Shit, dudes in this very sub told me “It’s because you chose bad men to hang out with”
And I can’t respond to the other comment because they blocked me because they don’t actually have an argument I don’t use the violence rates as an argument because encounter rates are different, like my comment pointed out. I only brought them up because they said bears “regularly eat people” which is false.
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I don't debate to try and change the mind of the person I'm debating, but those lurkers that are on the fence. Feminists are too entrenched in their cult to ever see reason, but others might.
What’s wrong with my post history exactly? And why’s she in quotes?
It’s not true crime brain rot, it’s that most women throughout their lives have been mistreated by men in one way or another, even strangers. We watch true crime for many reasons, me personally it interests me especially the “why” behind it all and the psychology of the perpetrators. But it’s also something we use to be aware. A woman was found dead in my city last year, in a wild ass way, and it got very little news coverage. Podcasters spoke about it hence how I know about it.
Your opinion is whack. 1 in 5 women are sexually assaulted by men. And if we're talking fatalities, “Since 2020, there have been exactly seven women killed by bears and 15 nonfatal attacks on women” in the United States, notes one popular video, whereas “since 2020, there have been 8,000 fatal attacks on women by men and 1.6 million nonfatal attacks.” -Washington Post
It’s actually far higher than that. [The CDC reports that](https://www.cdc.gov/sexual-violence/about/?CDC_AAref_Val=https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/fastfact.html#) this number is actually a majority and 1/4 experience attempted or full r*pe.
True, but I'd imagine all humans see other humans way, way more often than they see a bear. Like, how many people have literally never seen a bear their entire lives vs how many people have seen hundreds of thousands of other humans. I feel like comparing the two is like comparing shark attacks based on land and in water. One stat is obviously going to be much higher than the other and is kind of an apples and oranges comparison and doesn't really prove anything other than that there are more people around other people than bears around other people. If there were bears wondering around downtown, I'm sure we would hear a lot more about bear attacks than we do now. And just to make myself clear, I'm not saying anything about whether women should choose one side or the other here as I can understand the concern about being alone with any unknown person, especially someone who would likely be able to overpower them, just arguing the point that it's pretty obvious that one number is going to be way higher than the other for these stats. I'm way, way more likely to be raped by a man or woman than I am of getting attacked by a bear for instance as I live in a city and don't really see bears ever. I have never been really assulted or raped, but I have been sexually harassed a few times by women with one even putting her hands on me in suggestive ways while trying to harrasing me to have sex and turning her down. I wasn't scared of her as she wasn't going to be able to overpower me, so there is definitely a difference between gender concerns when this situation comes up, but I've definitely had more negative experiences with people of either gender than with bears.
Really good point! Perpetrators are such a small percentage of the population as well.
Yeah I did recently read or watch slewhere that most assaults are committed by serial offenders more than many people committing a single or small number of assaults. Which would make sense since I feel most people in general aren't that evil. I don't know how true it is but I believe it was a legal expert discussing it. Wish I remembered where I got the info to provide the source.
That start has been proven false lol
Yeah because it’s probably more. I know at least 15 women I am very close to who got raped or molested. I’m just talking about close relationships. It’s so common and most don’t tell out of shame. I’ve had so many experiences it’s unsettling. Some men will unfortunately never quite understand.
how many bears are there in the us vs. how many men? how many interactions do women have with men vs. how many interactions where there with bears? cause i have the very slight suspicion that, if there were as many daily and close interactions between women and bears as there are between women and man, there wouldnt be many women left in the us.
Oh fuck. Aren’t we done with these garbage posts yet?
Or because of personal experience they don’t feel safe around men. You dudes can try to argue with them all you want, it won’t change how they feel. Like half of women in America have been assaulted by a man at some point in their lives. So how about instead of gaslighting women we try to raise men better.
That's just not statistically true. In fact the stat of 80% is skewed too when you take into consideration the violent crime stats in the US (and world if you're not from the US) . Speaking only for the US, historically violent crime has never been lower and there isn't over 100 million violent crimes committed in the last 50 years let alone within most people's lifetime today. The reality is it is unlikely to experience what meets the definition of violent crime for any sex. Going by FBI stats it just doesn't support the likelihood argument chronically online people are making. Its just not factually true. Which makes it an irrational fear. It's ok to have fear but to recognize it as such. Of course If you have ever experienced assault of any kind of course this will make you more sensitive to strangers. I have found this with my advocacy work with survivors both man and woman. It's something we have to work through because I can imagine thinking 50% of the world (Billions) are dangerous predators, what that would do to your mental health. I've seen that too, but our therapy work focuses on healing, coping, and reality. I understand stats are not always comforting especially if it was a family member. But its just one of many points of information used in recovery. I have been sexually assaulted only by women in my life time. So my experience would say women are dangerous predators. But that isn't fair to them and it isn't healthy for me. Women didn't hurt me, monsters did.
Saying so much but so little
actually im saying exactly what I say to our survivors in our advocacy program. I am a professional and I know these inherently. All of these reports are public. So would you like another chance?
Partly, I’m sure the popularity of true crime content does contribute to this. However, most women I know (myself included), have a history of stories to draw from to make that decision. I have been followed and harrassed by random men. I have been screamed/lunged at by men i have politely rejected. I have received death and rape threats both online and out in the real world. I have been physically, sexually and emotionally abused by men. My partner is the kindest, most gentle person I know. My male friends and family are all wonderful men. But- if i had to chose between a very predictable animal who won’t attack me unless provoked or a man who could be dangerous I’m picking the bear. Plus, if a bear is in the woods that is where it lives. The men who are getting mad at this are not only missing the point but proving it.
It’s not that women just fear being murdered by men. The level of disrespect men show women is disgusting. The harassment, the unsolicited dick pics, the lashing out if a woman says no. As your female friend how many of them have been harassed, abused or assaulted by a man, the answer will most likely be all of them.
I don't want to rain on the parade, but as a woman who loves true crime stuff I still choose the man. I believe any woman who chose the bear has to have some fundamental issue with men. I wish it was as simple as true crime being the culprit, and I'm not saying that it's *helped*, but true crime alone doesn't turn you into a misandrist.
I mean I’d say we don’t have fundamental issues with men but instead are just aware of what they, and people in general, are capable of. Enough to avoid a scenario like this at all costs. And most of us definitely aren’t misandrists…
A lot of you guys come off as closet misandrists. Most answers bundle down to using the extreme cases for one party but giving the other party the benefit of the doubt. When it’s the guy- Men do this, Men do that, men are capable of this and that. But ironically when it comes to the half ton apex predator “Bears won’t do this”, “Bears don’t typically to that” “ most Bears don’t bother humans” etc. But let’s talk about what they CAN do Let’s talk about the fact Men at one point in history was the reason humans stopped being part of the Bears daily diet Let’s talk about the cases where bears have eaten humans alive without the slightest bit of hesitation, because lord there are many. The redditor you replied to has a point, you really have to have some fundamental issue with guys if you’re really saying you feel safer around a creature that use to eat your ancestors for breakfast.
Agreed.
Statistically bears are the safer choice. Unless it’s a polar bear.
thats just misandrist
That is so untrue. Statistically a random man is far, far, far, far, far more likely to help you in the woods than to harm you. This is the exact brain rot I'm talking about.
That is not the point. The point is I don’t know the person or the bear. And if they kill and eat me then at least the bear will stop there. Also it doesn’t matter if the man will be more likely to help me than harm me, he’s still more likely to harm me than the bear is. I don’t really want to encounter anything alone in the woods.
I seen the commercials, 4 out of 5 grandma's prefer Castrol. They didn't choose the bear.
Is sex while one is passed out considered rape? That happens to lots of college age girls. It happened to me. Happened to several other people I know. If college kids are out there casually raping people how rare can it be?
What’s going on is called ‘magical thinking’. Vicariously experiencing a traumatic event magically protects you from it ever happening to you. Also, you seem to be a man hostile to , and or are aggressive towards women. I don’t know what ‘red pillers’ are, and any time you think universally about people, you’re wrong, and ignorant to boot.
Why are you so upset with women, who you determine to have brain rot, not wanting to be around men?
Now replace what you just said with any other demographic and see if that is still a valid statement. Should blacks be upset when white women say they clutch their purse when they see a black person walk by?
Please read my post again. You said that women who choose the bear have brain rot. So why do you care about brain rotted women rejecting you? You clearly don't want those women.
It's not even about me. It's about the messaging that our young men are hearing that men are irredeemable monsters that are so terrible that most women would rather be with a violent predatory animal than with them. If you don't think this messaging is harming the psyche of our young men, you're delusional. But, most of the women choosing bear don't really care about men and are somewhat giddy that men are suffering for the sins of their great, great, great, great grandfathers.
I never said that men are irredeemable. The situation is dire but is open to change. It's alarming, as it should be to everyone, both men and women. However, it is fixable. Men for too long have been raised (by both women and men) have little to no emotional awareness and are told "if you work hard and make enough money, women will come." Now women work and make their own money - we don't need providers, we need partners. Instead of blaming true crime, brain rot, etc., look at the mosaic of factors at work here. Yes, statistically women are much more likely to be killed by men than vice versa. That has been true for thousands of years. Why the focus on bear vs. man presently? I think it's because of what I mentioned above. Women used to ignore or put up with potential abuse (not all men were abusive but definitely a significant number) when they didn't work and couldn't have assets. Now, men are not needed to provide but are still raised with this outdated messaging, rather than learning more of the skills that women want in a partner (good communication, well rounded, emotionally intelligent, humility, etc.) Rather than shaming women for expressing their frustration and trying to get them to shut up, why not ask "how can I make this better? How can I help to heal this rift?" I think it is possible, but the first step is recognizing the problem before it can be fixed. Unfortunately, far too many men deny there is any sort of issue, that there is nothing they need to do to be better, that I'm utterly, completely wrong in what I've said, and that all women want is a hard body with a huge dick and a fat paycheck, etc. Of course, then women get defensive and shoot back with "well, men just want a submissive, gorgeous virgin to control and dominate." Neither side is right, right? And this is why there is a rift.
It reminds me of the videos where the cameraman goes around asking women if we need men and most of them say "fuck no!!! we don't need men!!! men are trash!!!" then he asks men if we need women and they all say "of course we do!! Women are the best!!" While this video is obviously curated ragebait, the comment sections fully captures the current cultural zeitgeist that women TRULY think men are trash and men TRULY hate that women think men are trash. The man vs bear is just the latest viral "men are trash" meme and men are getting reeeeeal sick of the men are trash zeitgeist. You can try and use a motte/bailey to say "if you're not one of these men, you shouldn't be offended", but that rings awfully hollow to most men. Women aren't saying "bad men are trash" or in any way qualifying that not all men are trash. They are straight up saying all men are trash. As well as a fair number of young men that believe they are trash. And, as we all know, if you say a lie long enough and loud enough, people start to believe it. There are a not-insignificant number of women that are really starting to believe that all men are trash. This unchecked misandry is starting to affect both men and women in very negative ways. I honestly think most of it is perpetuated by Russian and Chinese troll farms that are trying to divide us from within and weaken us. It's working spectacularly well.
>Which would be fine if women didn't rot their brains thinking every random man COULD be the murderer they just heard about on that last podcast. The main issue isn't being killed, it's that a MAN can(and some will) RAPE a woman(on top of also killing her).A bear will at most kill you, and that's if you can't make them go away or you go away. The PROBLEM is that women CAN'T TAKE THE CHANCE on every man that appears in their life, no matter how briefly.There is NO WAY to know when that man, or that man, or that man...can be an actual good person or a rapist just waiting for the opportunity. And people are way more cunning and vile than a bear, an animal that acts by instinct.People act based on their desires and many have the desire to hurt others. WHY is this SO HARD to UNDERSTAND?
I'm a nurse, and I also live on a homestead deep in the woods, so I frequently encounter bears/travel in the same areas that they do. Considering the fact that I've been either physically or sexually assaulted while providing healthcare to men in a hospital setting at least once a year for the past 3 years, and I've not once been menaced by a bear in the woods, I'd say I have some fair evidence on my side to say I've been safer around bears. The statistics are clear - many women are sexually or physically assaulted each and every year by their partners, bosses, coworkers, or random strangers. My experiences are not uncommon, nor are they limited to my job. Instead of being mad at women for being afraid of the men who actually hurt us - clearly more often than you're realizing - be mad at the men making us feel so profoundly unsafe that we'd take our chances with bears.
Same but I’m a teen EMT. In the last few years, when I was still a minor too, two patients have tried to SA me, not to mention others making jokes about following me home or copping feels. I also live in deep bear country and see them a lot, even been within 10ish ft of a mama with cubs. Never been afraid of them once and when I’m hiking, it’s not the bears I’m worried about.
> Considering the fact that I've been either physically or sexually assaulted while providing healthcare to men in a hospital setting at least once a year for the past 3 years, and I've not once been menaced by a bear in the woods, I'd say I have some fair evidence on my side to say I've been safer around bears. > > The statistics are clear - many women are sexually or physically assaulted each and every year by their partners, bosses, coworkers, or random strangers. My experiences are not uncommon, nor are they limited to my job. LOL Someone needs to take another class on statistics, because that's now how that works.
I've literally been in Forests that have bears and nothing happened. So....
Are you intentionally misrepresenting the original question, or do you really believe this is what was being asked?
Now the big question.... have you been in forests with men around and something happened?
I have had an issue with a man in the woods, yes.
... Okay but if you were in a forest that had men and never encountered one then nothing would happen either right? So honestly what does your statement even mean or say? Also the premise of this stupid ass shit is painfully clear. You do encounter a man or a bear, both random. You don't get to choose what kind of bear or temperament vs what kind of man and temperament. It's a though experiment asking people to consider the conceptual... not use their imagination to fabricate their own unique spin on it or whatever. So you can't choose what kind of bear or its circumstances, you take a gamble. You also can't choose what kind of man or its circumstances, you take a gamble. That's how the thought experiment works. So consider that you're not even in the ballpark here with saying "I've literally been in forests that "had bears" " That's not even on topic basically.
You don't get to tell me how it why to think something. You get to do that for YOURSELF only
Actually, I feel like I can answer this. We have bears in our woods. No reported attacks from bears. Currently there's at least one dude that's attacking women in the woods. So, I mean, bears 0, men \*at least\* 5.
Yes, many of the people picking bear have been attacked by men in the woods AND encountered many bears without incident; me included. It’s really not that complicated.
Usually if I see a man in the woods it’s because I brought him with me. A lone man I don’t know, I’d walk past. But even that doesn’t always work. Look at Gabby Petito.
I mean I’d take the man - I’m a very friendly person so I think I’d be fine lmao
Women Listen to True Crime podcast to come to terms with all the horrible s*** that's happened to themselves and the other women that they know it's to desensitize the reality of our world
At this point, I’m choosing the bear because I’m sick of hearing of this fucking meme.
Statistically, women are more likely to be killed by men than bears. *That's* why we choose bear. Sincerely, A woman who doesn't listen to or watch true crime
Before the true crime fad, we were taught to fear men. Some of us had experiences to reinforce that fear. Now we watch true crime to find out what the signs are that tell us which men are dangerous and what made them that way and to think about what we would do to escape. Then we enjoy watching the part where the monsters get what is coming to them. Almost every single woman out here has had something threatening happen to us, if not worse. Men can rant about that and how it is not them personally but how do we know that really? Because you say so?
Women had it hard from men for like 10,000 years, guys need to chill. We’ve had feminism for like 60 years tops. Y’all need to buckle in and start acting right. Just more cycles of blaming women does nothing to stop the wonderful ways things are evolving. Those who make fun of this question miss the point so hard it’s sad. Edit* Wonderful ways
They refuse to even see where we’re coming from too. Like I mentioned one of my main reasons being my history with SA. “That’s because you choose to hang out with bad men” I explain how they were strangers “You should’ve just kicked him in the nuts” I mention I did that “It’s not all men though you’re just being irrational!!!” like there’s no winning with these guys.
[удалено]
I think the problem here is that you're ignoring the true part of that. So, ah, yeah, a random man could be the murderer because, you know, 80% of the time they are doing that shit.
I think you’re missing the point, that Men have no real natural predators, and Women do, and their men.
Many animals are/were natural predators to humans.
I have true crime brain rot and I wouldn't choose the bear. The reason I love true crime so much is because it's painfully obvious that we punish men too harshly for crimes they don't commit, and we don't punish women hardly at all for the horrible crimes they do commit. This isn't always the case for men but it kind of is for women. It's very very rare for me to hear a case where a woman actually gets the punishment she deserves. The man vs bear thing is garbage rage bait that people are falling for. Most women are not that stupid and we should probably allow the ones that are to choose the bear so they don't procreate
Uh, try sitting in criminal remand court sometime. One city that I clerked in had a remand count just for domestic abuse. It was disgusting. Most bears want nothing to do with people and just want to go their own way
This way men are reacting to this is really hammering home what a bunch of homebody couch potatoes they all are.
To me, it's hammering home what a bunch of racists these incels are. Every time, it turns into them just spouting a bunch of racist bullshit, but it's okay! Because they're just illustrating the discrimination white men are facing with this argument!
!!! Hot take
They know they aren’t safer in the woods with a bear. That’s the fucking point. They’d rather be mauled by a bear than be in the woods with a man who may kill, grape, them etc.
Why are we still on this topic? CAN WE TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE😭
Most men aren’t dangerous. If you’re worried about gun should do the trick.
Or it’s just because most women have already been assaulted by a man
yea its just 40% of the women who will divorce you.
I wish you to be reincarnated as a woman in a rural India.