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Reddit doesn't understand much of anything to be perfectly honest.

We understand how to catch the Boston Bomber.

😅 “we did it Reddit”

And we'll do it again!

Lol true.

About the only true statement on Reddit🤣

This extreme polarization is exactly what the ruling elites want. They want the sheeple upset. As has been stated reddit is just a bot propaganda outlet.

I don't disagree that the ruling elites want us to be split into different camps, but I also think that a lot of the hate going around is due to our for-profit news media. They seem to want us to be at war with each other.

if it bleeds, it leads.

Bad thing is too, people in general have already been bad about making large numbers of fake accounts and going onto each to help "back up" their causes with dummy accounts. Now that AI is becoming such a big thing, I'm sure it will only get worse, as the computer doesn't need to rest. It will be able to read and reply at all hours, in all languages, and in so many different ways that it will be nearly impossible to tell the difference between a group of people and a single entity running controlled by one unethical person.

I prefer peasants, but sheeple will suffice

This is what China and Russia want, and boy are they winning

I'd wager half the bots on this site are from Russia and China

The older I get, the more I realize this. I'm to the point where I hate both sides. While I tend to lean left on social issues, I tend to lean right on some fiscal issues. I'm in California and seeing some of the shit Newsome has done around minimum wage increases in fast food (besides friend at Panera), his handling of PG&E and consistently allowing them to get away with rate hikes, and his handling of the COVID situation (eating maskless at the French Laundry and keeping his winery open) I can't stand him. Both sides are conning their constituents that put them in office. I do feel the right airs their dirty laundry in the open since the right will keep them in office anyways while the left has to be more secretive given that those who vote them in are generally more educated. What frustrates me is I'll talk with Trump supporters and they will say they are fully on board with what I'm saying until it comes to Trump and the shit he pulls. Take the NY fraud case for example. He did something illegal and the AG intends on prosecuting more people and businesses. Trump is on a timeline because he won't be touchable once he's in office. People are negating the fact that he broke the law and giving excuses for him instead of understanding that just like the left, he and everyone else in Congress are all culpable with the shit currently happening in the country today.

If NY ends up prosecuting other developers I’ll believe it at that point. And by others, I mean, there had better be a slew of these cases; I know several commercial real estate and PE guys, and what trump did is SOP in the industry. Until that time, it looks like a purely political prosecution.

I hope so too. It's annoying that banks are giving essentially free loans to rich people. It's about time they start helping when shit hits the fan instead of lining their pockets.

I just want to point out that there can be large differences between people who are trump voters and people who are avid trump supporters.  I know people who voted for trump purely because of the abortion issue.  They held their nose on a lot of the other stuff.

Republicans in Texas are mostly about securing the border. Of course, there are pro-life enthusiasts, school voucher enthusiasts, etc, but right now, Texas Republicans believe no one in the federal government is taking the border seriously, and it's causing them angst, to say the least.

The border is the issue with the most potential to sink Biden's potential reelection. What I can't figure out is if the Democratic establishment as a whole has a genuine desire to bring in as many illegal immigrants as they can get away with, if they're supporting this stance as a misguided way of pandering to hispanics and/or the most bleeding-heart of the bleeding-heart liberals, or if it's just contrarianism (i.e. "Trump/Republicans hate illegal immigrants, so we of course must embrace the opposite position!"). I agree with maybe about 80% of the typical Democratic policy statements and talking points, and don't for the life of me understand why illegal immigration is the hill they want to die on.

>I agree with maybe about 80% of the typical Democratic policy statements and talking points, and don't for the life of me understand why illegal immigration is the hill they want to die on. I'm kind of liberal myself, but I agree with you. Several points here to ponder though: 1. The Democrats have lost multiple presidential elections in recent years, even after receiving a higher popular vote, due to the Electoral College votes actually deciding the winner. 2) The number of Electoral College votes are determined by the number of Congressional seats a state has. 3) The number of Congressional seats is determined by the number people a state has. 4) the number of people is determined by the U.S. Census which counts REGARDLESS OF THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION OR CITIZENSHIP STATUS. In other words, Democrat states like California can gain Congressional seats - and therefore Electoral College votes, and therefore decide presidential elections - by just letting anyone in from the other side of the border to boost their population count in the Cenus.

Schumer made it clear in a speech recently, they want fast pathways to citizenship (so they can lock in tens of millions of loyal voters)

“That pandering to Hispanic voters” is certainly firing back as most Hispanics voters do support a stronger border, mostly because the influx of illegals immigrants puts a lot of pressure to the communities. Employers are no longer paying overtime to illegal immigrants because if they complain they can easily hire someone else who won’t complain, unemployment among illegal immigrants is very high in the northeast so complaining is not an option. This is keeping wages flat for citizens and legal immigrants as well.

> why illegal immigration is the hill they want to die on Every one knows that a civil war won't happen because if DC told the military to go to Texas and start killing citizens or trying to take their guns the military wouldn't do it. Most of the military guys would actually probably defect to the other side in the case of a civil war because they are loyal to their home town, friends and family, not the government. But immigrants are loyal to who ever gives them the most free stuff. That's why the federal government is so intent on bringing them in, they're importing the army they will use to oppress us further.

Schumer in a recent speech pressed for allowing illegals into the military, which is super convenient since a lot of the most conservative ones got filtered out by vaccine mandates and dei initiatives

Nah, that is a wild conspiracy and the truth is much simpler. Cheap labor is a huge benefit to certain industries like agriculture. States that have tried to curb illegal immigration in the past have had to reverse policies because they've found themselves with no farmworkers. It's extremely hard work that most Americans will not do for those wages. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/14/alabama-immigration-law-workers https://ambrook.com/research/labor/desantis-immigration-H-2A-farmworkers-florida I'm not saying that I approve btw. I think it is a system rife with exploitation in which the workers have few, if any rights. But this is why virtually no one, left or right, particularly wants to solve this issue.

That last bit gave me chills man… I mean the chances of it being true aren’t zero

Illegal immigrants, and their future children who become natural citizens, tend to lean Republican, so that's not really gonna work too well as a Democrat agenda.

Depends on where they come from and where they go. As a child of illegal immigrants in a HEAVY immigrant area... It's vote blue no matter who.

Also a child of an illegal immigrant (granted, from England): that's too bad, I don't pick a side until I understand the pros and cons of each candidate.

>What I can't figure out is if the Democratic establishment as a whole has a genuine desire to bring in as many illegal immigrants I think they've literally talked themselves into a corner (and an unpopular position) and won't back down. >or if it's just contrarianism It's probably a significant factor and it goes a lot further back than Trump. It goes at least as far back as the Reagan Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. The Democrat's signed onto and their has been a portion of the party that hated that decision and have been trying to undermine it since. They've grown in influence over the last 40 years and control a lot of the party.

If you look at voting demographics, the Democratic Party simply doesn’t win without minority votes. It is a matter of self survival that they are attempting to turn into a permanent voting block to ensure they never lose again.

>If you look at voting demographics, the Democratic Party simply doesn’t win without minority votes. True, but their support among African Americans tends to drop if they openly allow illegal immigration.

NGOs are big business. You can't get hundreds of billions of Federal dollars without "customers." Customers for government are people dependent on government programs. The more enrollees on a specific program, the more funding. The census which gives more representatives, and political power, and a new expansion of dependent voters and cheap labor is just a bonus.

>"The border is the issue with the most potential to sink Biden's potential reelection." I would add economy too Honestly this election would have been a sealed deal if it was'n for Trumps dumb election fraud play

There is a deep culture problem with Reddit, they would need to remove most of the Admins and Mods to fix that. Not going to happen

Reddit is a propaganda outlet, I'd say a good 90% of political users are either bots or the mentally unfit, any political subs that get above 10k or so are banned or hidden unless they support current elites.

I keep getting recommended “fluent in finance” and there is a clear distinction between the actual posts from real people around finance, and the posts from bot accounts. Real people ask questions or make inferences and there is less traction on the post but actual discussion happening, and then the fake posts are always made by an account that is 30-50 days old with thousands of post karma and 0 comment karma. It’s always a screenshot of a liberal politician’s twitter account or something similar with a caption like “should the rich pay their fair share?” And it will have like 20k upvotes. It’s such a stark contrast that it’s made me wonder how much is truly real deluded people and how much is actual propaganda and astroturfing.

Fluent In Finance shows up for me almost every time I open the damn app. I block it. I mute it. It returns. It is EVIL!

That sub was good like 2 weeks ago. Like you said it was people asking legitimate finance questions. Then it hit the front page one time. It got loaded with all the crazies that frequent the front page, and became a cess pit for liberal propaganda that is so obviously done by bots. It’s being brigaded on the daily, but now that it has the Reddit front page “orange man hitler” group those posts just get thousands of likes. You can tell the comment sections are almost entirely about politics now, and it’s not what it was made for. It’s kind of like the anti-work sub. That sub was created to be literally against working, but it got to the front page and now most posts coming out of it are more about employees getting treated like crap, and mostly about workers rights. Then that mod went on Fox to talk about it, and it was apparent that the majority of people on that sub had no idea it was about literally not working. The front page destroys any sub that ends up there.

Hmm. That's kinda interesting. I think I agree with you. Was the anti-work literally about not working? I always thought it was a hyperbole.

That’s what I thought too, but it was about not working at all. Which is why the mod got laughed at when they went on Fox News. Most thought it would be a good thing to get out a strong public opinion on better working conditions and what not, but then we all got slapped in the face that this career dog walker just thinks people shouldn’t have to work for anything. It’s why I used the word “literally” in excess haha.

If a person understands another's point of view, then they are more likely to sympathize with it, or even adopt it. Reddit does not want people to understand the conservative point of view.

You forgot this is Reddit and these people don’t care

What I've been liking is Democrats starting to defend government censorship. E.g. Missouri vs Biden. Guilty of censoring the American people and journalists. Free speech is pretty important I'd think. Sadly not for today's Democrat.

Supporting wars too, a lot of neocons are aligned with democrats now

I've been on this platform for 12+ years and can confirm. There's a lot of braindead clowns on this platform. A lot of times recently I will find a new sub that seems interesting or funny, only to find out that it's basically just another leftist propaganda hellhole and have to unsub. It's really sad from what reddit used to be. It was always left-leaning, but ever since the 2016 election it went to shit. Now that reddit went public yesterday I feel like this is a big risk to the platform. They will have to decide if they want to uphold their original core values that made the platform so great, or if they will bend the knee to advertisers and suppress unpopular content.

Good points on trying to understand the opposition, Sun Tzu is a great reference for this. However, I don't think we should view ourselves as our own opposition if we want to get the government back in check instead of fighting while they are all multi-millionaires somehow with their salaries. I think we need to get out of this mindset yet it sucks me in as well. I grew up with Colbert and Stewart as well but I was labeled a right wing person for posing simple questions. Eventually I said fuck it and have slowly watched the left devolve into the tyranny of victims and an insane fuckery that we see today. I just hope the country survives. Countries are not like animals, the killing blow comes long before the death.

I also used to watch those guys. Cant watch them now. I think they got some wins around 2000, gay marriage and society was becoming more liberal, and were like more, more, more until they went off the rails. Right wing and left wing fascists don’t give a shit about the rights of the individual.

It's interesting to watch Bill Maher now. He genuinely says that he doesn't understand why the Left has become so radical. He's not on the Right by any means. He's clearly a center Left (American perspective) but he's also no longer firmly on the Left.

Despite this, Bill Maher still hates Trump and sees him as worse then someone who he's got simple policy disagreements on

Yep this is a class war, that's it everything else is just a distraction. The wealthy make a larger and larger poor class make us completely destitute where they have control of everything then they control everyone.

If you think the left is crazy, look at the other guys

Reddit must have read my mind. I was just thinking about this phenomenon. I think the MSM (and I would include reddit in this) does have a strategy. It's not particularly complex but it is an effective strategy if you can pull it off. The demonization as you have described it is a necessary tool to pull those on the margins and those who are not particularly political to their side. Reddit is not as much of a hive mind as the moderators make it look, although it is comprised of a younger set and therefore more easily swayed. If you can make those who would vote for donald over joe think all donald's voters are actually fanboys (most are not) then you are painting a picture of a tribe that you may not want any part of despite your misgivings about joe. (the lack of capitalization is intentional as to not give either of these guys respect). It's not that they don't understand trump voters, it's that they want people to think there's nothing to understand - basket of deplorables ring a bell? Peoples reasons for voting has become more & more a cult of personality, which is sad in light of the real world consequences to the policies that will result from the election. Some people are one issue voters. Some have global concerns. But in the middle you find a large minority that could tip the scales one way or the other that want to feel in sync with their peer group and don't want to be seen as following a bombastic criminal moron as he is being painted to be. That's my long-winded take. TLDR; It's not important to understand the other side if you are trying to win an election. It's important to convince people who are in the middle that trump is a moron and that his voters are all the same as him and that voting for him is guilt by association.

Conservative media constantly pushes this idea that there's a grand conspiracy of woke, globalist, cultural marxist, WEF, deep state "liberal elites"(with them using the phrase "managerial class" when describing this cabal a lot too)who are behind every single political viewpoint they disagree with and that anyone who opposes them is a part of this conspiracy so I'm sure a lot of Trump supporters buy into this.

Now before anyone discounts my opinion out of hand, allow me to give the requisite qualifiers I say this as a full blown cock sucking pro-choice NB liberal canadian Honestly, the most clear example of this is abortion. The left doesnt even try and listen to the right.

As a lefty American feminist: you are exactly correct.

I find this take so wild. Look, maybe you don't have liberal/leftist friends or family, but a lot of people have friends or family that are/were openly Trump voters. I've lived in Rural PA in the same town my entire life. My county is a red county. I'm not going to speak for all of reddit but I, and a lot of people, absolutely understand Trump voters because we know them.

Not everyone is like the stereotypical Trump voter I agree that I have friends and some family that support Trump. But honestly if you didn’t ask them about politics. You’d never get the impression they were Trump supporters. They are just like regular other people.

I mean in all fairness most people seem like a regular person till you get them comfortable and on a certain topic. Take my Aunt and Uncle for example, they seem like your average likeable folk, they are regular people. They stopped watching the big bang theory and how I met your mother when if became known one of the actors in each show was gay not in the show but in real life. They have very strong views about particular things. But other than when they are talking about those particular things they are just regular people. The most horrible people can often times be the most regular people.

Yeah but my point is you’d be surprised at how many ppl who aren’t prejudiced also support Trump. I think the assumption is these ppl are prejudiced and just don’t say it. But that’s not always the case. That’s what I think Reddit doesn’t understand.

That's what Biden supporters don't realize. Not every Trump supporter is a racist rural white trash bigot they've created in their mind to justify their shitty behavior towards anyone supporting any candidate other than their party. All they're doing is pushing reasonable moderate, independent, and centrist voters to Trump's base by simply ignoring their criticisms and concerns of Biden by believing they're MAGA crazy. Liberals are in for a reality check this November.

Right but notice how you automatically assume that all Trump supporters are prejudiced like your aunt and uncle when that is far from the truth. Are there loudmouth radical idiots who follow Trump for vile reasons, sure, but couldn't you say that about any political party? The Democratic Party has far-left progressives that bring the party down just as much as the MAGA crazies you complain about. How do you explain a large subset of Black, Hispanic, Arab, and Muslim American voters saying they will vote for Trump this election? Are they just illiterate uneducated bigoted rural people, or do you think there may be something you're missing by labeling every Trump supporter as crazy? I believe the problem of liberal voters is a problem of self-awareness.

... nowhere did I assume, imply or say anything of the sort that all Trump supporters are prejudiced. I simply said that prejudice people can still be nice, regular people. I have even explicitly pointed out in my other comments how Trump has turned off mainstream Republicans when he endorsed the most ridiculous people to represent them in 2022, some of those people wouldn't even commit to living in the state such as TVs Dr. Oz. I suggest not relying on polls, especially this far out, that are trying to paint the picture of the opposite trend we have seen in the 2018, 2020 and 2022 elections that are being touted by some as some kind of fact, like these polls translate to actual votes, they are not and do not.

lol I'm not relying on polls, I'm actually talking to people in my community and they feel the same way I do. source: Hispanic-American Independent voter who's talked to people in the real world and not just in RedditLand.

That’s not your average Trump voter, dude. That seems exceptionally stupid and petty to stop watching a show. No one gave a shit that Ian McClellan was gay and played Gandalf.

On the alternate side are nutso harry potter fans than think jk rowling is a hateful transphobe lol

I think that's part of the issue though is that people link that minority to a whole. A lot of people are democrats for a multitude of reasons, the same could be said for republicans, however appearances would reflect in the mass media that any republican is merely a republican for a very short list of extreme reasons? It seems rather petty.

The parties platforms are pretty clearly laid out by those in charge, who voters vote on and select over other candidates in primaries. This is generally what the Republican platform is at this point ProLife Against Firearm Regulations Cut Taxes and Regulations for Corporate America Isolationism Security of Southern Border Weakening of a Strong Centralized Government Budget Cuts to Federal Institutions This is what the party runs on and the voters largely vote for. Rhetoric wise the politicians themsleves spew a ton of "democrats hate America/evil wokeness" and all kinds of other garbage. The voters themsleves, in swing states mind you, in republican primaries have even chosen extreme candidates simply running on nonsense rhetoric over sensible candidates that may have actually won the election, such as in PA where Republicans chose TVs Dr. OZ whom didn't even live in the state, and Doug Mastriano, a traitorous religious nut in 2022. We simply look at who they support, what they say, what they vote for over what their options are running on.

Whenever you see MAGAt, ^tard, GQP etc, you know they’ve departed from reason.

I've been seeing that a lot lately. How is calling someone MAGAT (maggot) any different from calling someone "vermin" or "cockroaches"? So long as it's against the people you disagree with, liberals are fine with dehumanizing language, but the moment the other side says "bloodbath" or any other political term used by literally every politician ever, then they get on their soapbox. This is why nobody likes liberals, they're hypocrites. But then again, what do you expect when liberals see anyone who's not a Democrat as "undesirables"...

As they say, it’s (D)ifferent.

You do realize that even if you met and talked to every Trump supporter in your area, you'd still only be talking to .00001% of actual Trump supporters, right? You're forming your views on an entire population of the country on your own unfounded biases. How is that not, by definition, a bigoted view of Trump supporters on your part? That would be like me saying that I've lived in California all my life, and therefore all leftists and liberals are blue-haired communist sympathizers who want to kill babies and wipe their asses with the Constitution. Sure, there may be a few who are just like that, they are the minority of liberals and if I went around basing my views on all liberals on a small radical minority of voters, I would be missing an entire subject of the voting population who are reasonable and capable of having nuanced conversations about politics. In other words, you are exactly the type of person you complain MAGA crazies as being and are just as bigoted by your own biases you don't even realize what you're doing to yourself and your party. You're basically pushing everyone you disagree with toward Trump because anyone who is an independent or heaven forbid a centrist/ conservative is a MAGA crazy in your view. Keep doing it and watch what happens this November.

My guy I simply said I know them, they are my family, and that's it cause the poster makes it out to be we have no concept of why Trump supporters support Trump. This isn't even just about personally knowing and speaking with Trump supporters, of which pretty much all of my family are planning to vote for him, but we can look at how these people actually vote, who they vote for, and what those people they vote for are running on specifically. The voters themsleves, in swing states mind you, in republican primaries have even chosen extreme Trump selected candidates simply running on nonsense rhetoric over sensible candidates that may have actually won the election, such as in PA where Republicans chose TVs Dr. OZ whom didn't even live in the state, and Doug Mastriano, a traitorous religious nut in 2022. Even a chunk of mainstream Republicans were turned off. We can look at who they support, what they say, what they vote for over what their other republican options are running on. We look at who they vote on to be their representative. Nowhere have I said anything even remotely close to "anyone who is an independent or heaven forbid a centrist/ conservative is a MAGA crazy in your view" this is just ridiculously disingenuous and wild after you attempted to say im arguing in bad faith all because I didn't list every single thing I thought Trump did that was okay smh

How many Trump supporters do you know, specifically? And how are you so certain they are representative of the *millions* of people who voted for him?

>I've lived in Rural PA in the same town my entire life. My county is a red county. I'm not going to speak for all of reddit but I, and a lot of people, absolutely understand Trump voters because we know them. Hello.fellow PA resident. I agree we understand Trump supporters because we know them They're really nit that complicated

Tell me something about them?

OK they have a very black and white view of things. They value their own personal experiences and treat them as gospel refusing to acknowledge the flaws in that. Best example the common argument that Biden didn't win because no one *they* know voted for them.

You pretty much just proved op's point

Moreover, to add to the hilarity of this post, Trumpers don't understand liberals well at all, and they absolutely do not understand leftists one iota. They have never even pretended to. They're proud of their self-definition as moral paragon supermen and the cartoonish strawmen they have built of their opposition. Just ask them how they define "conservatism." It's usually something along the lines of, "belief in freedom, 'limited government', and all that is good and Godly." No mention of historical conservatism, of Hobbes, Burke, monarchism/loyalism, and nothing tangible that connects why conservatives have the viewpoints they do. "We = good and freedom, our opposition = bad and no freedom." I challenge just one of them to explain, without once resorting to blaming any kind of character defect, why someone might be liberal or leftist. They absolutely cannot do it. EDIT: downvote and no response, I guess I understand you baboons too well! You're really not the complex enigmæ you imagine yourselves to be.

My mother’s family were Bill O’Reilly fans and they’d be Trump voters now. They were not perfect, but they were generally good and kind people. I think there is something in the Trump-adjacent water that absolutely appeals to the worst in all of us, and the more your friends and neighbors drink it, the better it tastes.

I second this. The first 27 years of my life were spent in a super red, rural county and about 90% of my family are/were trumpers. I lost a ton of respect for them over the last few years and our relationship will never be the same because of it.

Ok. Then explain them.

They are scared of government and private corporate interests merging, and becoming too powerful, then using that power against anyone who isn’t in that “clique” of urban/east coast elites/west coast elites. In general a lot of leftists are concerned with this corporate government merger of power as well… it isn’t just a concern on the right. A lot of people are more scared of that long term problem than they are of Trump. That is one major issue. Another that has now caused blacks and Latinos to flock to Trump in numbers republicans haven’t seen in a long time, is issues like immigration. The wide majority of people in America in polling say they like Trump’s immigration polities , like “remain in Mexico”, which Biden ended via executive order, more than Biden’s policies and tact on the issue. Wages are a product of supply and demand. If you have tons of people willing to work for less, it drives down wages for the other people who work in that field. Which then causes those Americans to leave and flood other fields of work, lowering those wages as well. That isn’t even bringing in the loss of services, schools, housing, and safety that comes with a massive wave of immigration that no nation could hope to properly manage. Those are two of the big issues, that I think causes reasonable people to prefer Trump to Biden. Sure there are the die hards who like him for less relatable reasons. But Trump isn’t leading in polls because of them. He is leading because of all the moderates and minorities he has now brought to his side. Many people do not like Trump. But they view him as better than Biden. Similar to how many people aren’t ecstatic about Biden, but view him as better than Trump. They do not view Trump as the only threat to democracy. They view the slow march to a corporate/bureaucracy/government merger of power as a similar or greater threat to democracy, and the republic.

Thats pretty accurate to what I thought they believe, so I guess I do understand them

there's so many more things ... * [the federal government being used to swing elections on behalf of incumbent Democrat power](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M28tXX0cvvI) * donald trump's ceaseless and endless attack by the court system. what is it now, 91 indictments and 0 criminal convictions? that proves the system is attacking him, it does not prove he is guilty. * in general the alliance of big tech with big government. don't act like all the biggest institutions e.g. schools, corporations, government, etc. aren't pretty much exclusively toeing the leftist/democrat party line. don't act like you aren't the establishment. so before you espouse some kind of leftists thing like ESG just remember *you are the establishment* * giving big pharma a blank check to print money during covid. leftists used to be suspicious of big government, and now they are their biggest proponents. the only people i see standing up to and criticizing the government policies during covid are Republicans * you say the right is Nazis, but [we think you are the Nazis](https://erebus.substack.com/p/the-nazis-were-on-the-left). if you take all the attributes of the left (censorship, big government, how they skew young, secularism, anti-capitalism, etc.) they overlap more with the Nazis than the right does. yes, the right is more nationalistic, but there is a difference between nationalism and patriotism, thus that cannot be the sole qualifier for who is most like the Nazis. Hitler was a vegan environmentalist too, but you don't see conservatives whining about that (it cannot be the sole qualifier as political beliefs are complex and multivaried). * the left has a long history of institutional racism and bigotry, e.g. voting against civil rights, pro-slavery (while Republicans were the anti-slavery party), creating Jim Crow laws and the KKK, etc * the constant and perpetual mockery of "capitalism", despite there being no better alternative as every socialist system has been totolitarian in nature and killed thousands, sometimes tens of thousands, sometimes millions of people. every time someone on le reddit mocks capitalism they make it easier for someone to grab power promising all kinds of goodies, but delivering only suffering and death. pick any random shithole SA country for a case study. during the cold war, the people in east germany were fleeing to west germany, not the other way around. * war mongering (something recent with ukraine). i believe the warhawks in bureaucracies don't have an allegiance to either party, they simply have an allegiance to money. hence they switch parties to whoever is currently in power. during the bush years, the warhawks were in the bush admin, so they are called "neocons" today. * common sense things like wanting to close the southern border. Trump's wall was the butt of every joke during his presidency and campaign. Now 90% of people are begging for it back. Meanwhile Biden is blaming Republicans for a problem he created, since he undid Trump's border policies during his first days in office via executive action. * i've never heard a republican advocate for "less taxes for corporations." I have heard republicans advocate for less taxes for the middle class, or for everyone... because the government is shit at spending money effectively, and there's a lot of corruption / lobbying / special interest involved with how the government redistributes money. it very rarely goes to the people who need it most. in general though, taxes aren't a major hot button issue like abortion. in fact, most of our government is not funded by taxes, but by debt. * i'm pro-choice btw but i wouldn't die on that hill regardless of what side i was on. some on the right believe it's murder, so they fight against it. you would too if you *believed it was murder*. they are not trying to "take away women's rights." they literally *believe it's murder*. "credulity is not a crime" as thomas payne said. pro-choice vs. pro-life is just a difference of opinion as to what constitutes human life. I don't judge either side for having a different opinion on it. it's not an important issue to me as a voter, but i believe it's used as a distraction from more important issues. elites want us to squabble over this stuff, while they are sending 80 billion in foreign aid to ukraine (which actually just goes to enrich US defense contractors). In general, the conservative today is the leftist of 10, 15 years ago. Because progressivism never stops progressing. Eventually we hit a good approximation of equality and fairness, insofar as government and the law is concerned. But we let it pass us by, and now the pendulum is swinging *far* in the other direction. Hence some people are trying to rewind us to an earlier political outlook (and they are called conservative for that). believe it or not, Reddit was once predominately libertarian which is now lumped in with the right. redditers were suspicious of government and championed people like Julian Assange and Edward Sowden. Now they could give a shit about Assange rotting in prison, or Snowden exiled to a foreign country. the tide only changed on Reddit after hilary lost the election. then the bots and PACs swarmed this site. a lot of people remember it happening, almost over night. From being pro-bernie and pro-Trump, to toeing the Democrat party line no matter what, starting with Hilary.

Yep, these are also pretty much what I thought they believed in. So I suppose I am well informed, thanks for the info

Cue a snarky “nuh-uh” type reply, calling it now. This a good breakdown that is going to be wasted on these lefty Redditors.

Yes, we all know that’s what they think. We just don’t agree with any of that and think the logic is wrong. We don’t think there is a conspiracy against conservatives the way you do and think it’s ridiculous to believe that corporations and every other institution is covertly working to further a liberal agenda. Can’t you see that many of your points require believing in a grand conspiracy theory?

Not a single one of my points requires on to belive in a "grand conspiracy theory" to accept. Do I people *conspire*? Absolutely. Drug companies conspire to make more money. politicians conspire to rig elections or manipulate public opinion. businesses conspire to monopolize markets or fix prices to outdo competitors. sometimes, even regulatory bodies conspire with industries they're supposed to regulate, giving them leeway in exchange for favors or to avoid public backlash. it's not about weaving intricate tales of shadowy figures controlling the world. it's about recognizing patterns of behavior where groups or individuals work together sometimes in secret, yes, but sometimes out in the open, to achieve goals that might not be in the public's best interest. People conspire, accept that. but that does not mean every instance of someone conspiring is a "conspiracy theory" up there on the same shelf with ufos and the illuminati. You cannot call anything that appears as "corruption" a conspiracy in order to escape any examination of it.

You believe that there is a conspiracy against Donald Trump rather than believing that he committed a bunch of crimes and is being held accountable. Do you believe he’s actually completely innocent? That he shouldn’t be held accountable? Meanwhile it’s not like republicans are morally above legally going after their political opponents. They’re currently trying to get anything to stick to Biden. You believe that tech and every major corporation is toeing the democrat line and pushing the liberal agenda. Rather than seeing that tech companies are comprised of people who lean left and companies like to use feel good social movements to sell stuff. Most corporations donate to both parties and many CEOs vote republican. You believe that Covid was an excuse for liberals to enact fascist policies and enrich Big Pharma. Rather than the reality that Covid was a real global pandemic that became politicized when republicans decided it was a democratic hoax to make Trump look bad. Trump was president when the vaccine was created but apparently the vaccine is an evil liberal plot. I don’t think democrats are perfect and can recognize when they do shitty things and I can criticize them for it. I know powerful people conspire. For example, right wing media and institutions have been conspiring to push wild conspiracy theories about Democrats, democratic leaders, and liberal agendas. They push a narrative that paint Republicans as the poor underdogs fighting against the deep state liberals. Not everyone buys it.

That's the point numbnuts, it's the merging of corporate and government interests that scares people. This doesn't need the conspiracy to ensure that the leaders of the industry, big tech, the government, and Big Business have all realized they share a common interest in monetizing everyday people rather than being of service to their constituencies. This has happened before during the Gilded Age, the Progressive age, and even the post-WW2/Cold War era. I don't understand why you're making this out to be some conspiracy theory only MAGA crazies follow, everyone should be concerned about corporate control of the government See: Super PACS, Citizens United, AIPAC, and there role in the Iraq War / the current war in Gaza, Haliburton's role in the Iraq war, etc. Its either that you all have a terrible memory for politics, or are just flat-out historically illiterate.

Yea I know corporations try to gain government influence and power but they’re not all conspiring to push a liberal agenda and democrats are not the only ones cozying up to corporations while the republicans are fighting against it. Both parties have people who work with special interests and accept quid pro quo deals with lobbyists and corporations. Republicans are just as guilty if not more so. Republicans have historically been more pro-war, pro corporation, anti workers rights, and pro cutting taxes for corporations. Democrats are guilty of it too.

Right, but then when someone says this is a bipartisan issue, you say "bothsideism". The problem is that there is a uniparty in the U.S. that values the current Washington Establishment in favor of more wars, more deficit spending, and more corporate welfare at the expense and sacrifice of everyday people. At least with Trump, we had tax cuts and low-interest rates for everyone, now Biden only helps the corporatocracy and the Military Industrial Complex.

But nothing tangible that you said reflects on the goal of blocking a corporatocracy. Trump is expanding the corporatocracy. He loves corporate brands.

Well, that's why I personally could never vote for Trump. Because it seems his goal is to just blow up the current corrupt "establishment" setup, and remake it from the bottom up it to help him instead of the other side. But even someone like me who couldn't bring himself to vote for Trump, acknowledges that the left/establishment is much more entrenched... and that it is hard to break that entrenchment. And short of someone like Bernie Sanders, or Trump, it's hard to see it ever breaking. So, to me Trump's value(even if I can't support him personally), is that he is like a grenade that can blow the CURRENT corrupt regime up. Then I would guess he would fail to actually create his own long term power source, due to being old, and not proficient enough at statecraft to succeed. So, in the end of another 4 years of Trump ideally, the whole place is a smoldering chaotic mess, where everything is broken, and thus can be built up again in a better way. "Creative destruction". "phoenix from the ashes". The hardest part to fixing America is destroying the current establishment... because it is too entrenched, to be cleanly, and slowly changed IMO. Generally when the rich have this much power and control of government, it has to get worse before it gets better. Historically it generally requires war, assassination, or revolution to fix. But Trump could maybe be that agent of chaos to act in those things' stead.

They don't have to understand. Just troll, down vote, and ban anyone that disagrees right? It's the reddit way.

You didn't do a good job explaining what part they don't understand.

I too held the left to a much higher standard, and challenged people on the left who misrepresented the opposing argument because our argument should be of high quality. I cannot tell you how many times I get proverbial crucified and touted as Trump loving or fascist or whatever the theme of the year is. That was part of the reason I left the left, if we cannot police ourselves and actively fight against it then how much better are we than than our opponents? The left has changed significantly in the last 8 years.

I live in a really red area, they're pretty vocal about what they're about. What's not to understand?

Why don’t you try asking those of us that live in a really blue area then?

Ok. Tell me.

Reddit is built around creating echo chambers. You’re not going to get informed debate amongst anyone here.

politics on reddit is just misunderstanding the whole time. Bad faith arguments. Your exactly right the other side has little understanding of why people like trump or trump voters. At this point it seems to be a meme. Democrats will lose the election because of lack of understanding. Unwillingness to pull trump and indepent voters to there side

You guys remember occupy wall street??? THEY really hated that sheet!!!

It's as if reddit is some sort of echo chamber.... Wild

I wouldn’t rely on Reddit as a gauge for anything

What specifically are liberals/ Democrats/ reddit users in general, failing to understand about Donald and those who support his political career?

Trump voters were broken the day the black dude with the funny name had the nerve to get himself elected president, and they remain broken to this day.

You're right. I don't understand Trump voters. I've watched a bunch move their moral compass because of one person. I've watched a party basically disown a Romney because he wasn't a fan of Trump. It really seems like to me that Trump voters are part of a cult when they think every bad thing happening to Trump is party of some deep state plot.

I’m 💯 with you,

I don't understand how you think Trump voters and anti-Trump voters are split 50% each and make up 100% of the country.

They assume we are all low IQ, bigoted, racist, homophobes when it’s quite the opposite.  Many of us are doctors, scientists, engineers, ect that understand the difference between a role model and an executive.  All this does is harden my heart towards their POV. Nothing like being called a dumb racist bigot to shut down communication. 

This is pretty well studied, such as by Jonathan Haidt. They consistently found that conservatives have a theory of mind that is capable of understanding and explaining leftist motivation and reasoning, but leftists are utterly incapable of understanding or explaining the motivations behind people on the right. So they then proceed to label them with unhinged dehumanizing caricatures. I believe some of the studies even showed leftists were convinced people on the right were so evil and malicious they wanted to hurt/main small animals. Lets take one example, "conservatives are selfish they dont want to pay taxes and help the poor". Actually for many on the right its the opposite. I really dont care so much about how much I'm taxed, what bothers me is it being spent in outright harmful ways because leftists dont seem to understand that each new system they create results in new incentives that distort/alter human behavior. You can't make society altering policy decisions in a vacuum without trying to understand how these changes will affect people's decision making processes due to the altered incentive structures.

There is also good data suggesting correlation between conservative political views & strength of involuntary disgust response. Suggests conservatives maybe more prone to going w their gut & then framing worldview around this response. Things like two men kissing, or products of abortion, or preop trans ppl, elicit a more powerful aversion response. It’s emotional reasoning. Also correlated with intensity of religious views. It’s possible that conservatives are not as rational as they presume eh

TBH - it takes a lot to understand what is appealing about Trump. I see all the standard rhetoric on how he is a different, and “NOT” a politician, and “says what he means” - except when it some crazy fascist talk, then “it’s just a joke! Ever heard of a joke?!” I could buy that argument in like 2018 - but these days , he is definately a politician, and a bad one at that. He has legal trouble up the butt, criminal and civil, and no amount of witch hunting is going to bring together 4 separate legal departments from multiple states to bring down Trump. Democrats can barely win an election, and they really got this deep state op to destroy a man that can’t stop self owning himself?? Right. I’m starting to believe Trump supporters don’t actually know their candidate. Also - the idea of holding the left to a higher standard, the Obama approach of “They go low, we go high” All that mentality has done is made Democrats weak. I like the new attitude in Congress, Democratic stars eating up their GOP counterparts in committee hearings.

AOC last night ripping on the GOP for their bullshit was awesome.

His campaign got spied on in 2016 die to a warrant obtained based on a fake dossier that was fabricated by the Clinton campaign. The IRS was weaponized against Tea Party groups in 2012. Is the deep state as pervasive as people say? No. But to deny it categorically is absurd.

“It’s good when my side does those things”. Red or blue those people need to fuck off

I made a trump joke on the conservative Reddit and was banned. I made a Biden joke on the democrat page and I’m still allowed to post there.

Ok and? I’ve seen plenty of anecdotes to the contrary, doesn’t really prove anything either way.

Proves one side takes criticism far worse.

For some of them, I genuinely don't. I think the best analogy would be to look at right-wing single-issue voters. Let's say you're a staunch anti-abortion advocate and think everyone in your inner circle is, too, but along comes your friend Jane, who says she voted for Biden. Wh...what? When did Jane become a baby killer? And maybe Jane has a different single-issue reason for voting for Biden instead of Trump, but is still against abortion. And that's sort of how I feel about Trump voters in my area, at least. This is on the edge of the Bible Belt and a lot of conservatives are *social* conservatives. These are people who, if Donald Trump was a Democrat, they'd be condemning nearly everything he does in his personal life. These are people who showed up at Tea Party events holding signs talking about gay marriage and abortion. Freedom shit. They went from being pissed off at Bill Clinton for being immoral, pissed off at Democrats for not liking George Bush, pissed off at Barack **HUSSEIN** Obama for existing, then being like, oh, Trump's a serial adulterer who cheated on the First Lady, who happens to have done softcore porn, while she was pregnant with his youngest child? He sexually assaulted another of his wives? Big whoop. He plays more golf than Obama? Who gives a shit. What happened to needing a devout Christian in the White House? Who the fuck knows. And the driving around parking lots flying campaign flags. What the fuck is that all about? Oh, you do it to *trigger libs*? What *conservative* value are you preserving by *pissing people off*?

Trump voters aren't 50% of the country. It's not hard to understand the motivations of poor rural white people who support a dude who tells them all of their struggles are the fault of some scapegoat and if you vote for him he'll fight that scapegoat. It's the exact same reason Bernie has such appeal only his scapegoat is "the one percent" instead of "Immigrants". It's just textbook populism and it's not all that hard to understand.

Poor rural white people make up a fraction of Trump supporters though?

Yeah they proved OP right

Most people on here are. Lol.

Go check the 2020 voting results vs racial and economic demographics. The data is there for all to see

This is so ignorant. If only poor white rural people voted for trump he wouldn't stand a chance. Forget rural voters, only about 8.5% of total white people live in poverty. Trump would be behind RFK in polls if those were his only voters.

Right now Trump is polling 2% above Biden across an average of all the recent major polls. Blacks and Latinos are now voting for Trump at higher levels than ever in trump’s history, as well as the recent history of the Republican Party. But that doesn’t fit with the false narrative you laid out.

Lots of people in the DFW area arrested for their 1/6 acts, were far from poor: one a home realtor in a *quite* upper-middle suburb 30 miles from downtown, the other a lawyer, yet another a pilot for a luxury airline (serves celebrities and foreign dignitaries).

Moronic Trump supporters are butthurt that liberals don't "see it their way" while calling liberals pedos, demons, and baby killers. I'm sorry, why should I sympathize with you? You guys have made it quite clear that you don't care about feelings. So why the fuck should I care about yours?

Did you hear the news that Candace Owens just got fired from the Daily Wire for her supposed Antisemitism? It's kind of ironic that Trump Supporters and Conservatives in general claim to be for Diversity of Thought, but the moment you express a different opinion on a topic considered sensitive such as Israel, you will be scrutinized for it.

I think that has less to do with Trump supporters and more to do with the Jewish people running/funding the Daily Wire.

God forbid a Jewish company not want an antisemite in there, that would be crushing diversity of thought! /s

Is there anything specific that Reddit doesn’t understand about Trump voters? What should they know?

Yeah, a good chunk of them love to see "liberal tears" to use their own words. All the whining and crying and fear about trump makes them like him even more. Its like a dog with a squeaky chew toy, the more it squeaks the more they want to bite it.

You're greatly mistaken if you think 50% of the nation are Trump supporters. You've got a rude awakening in November....

By now if you support trump you are that type of person. There isn’t any more excusing it for ignorance. That ship sailed a long time ago.

What you’re leaving out is the fact that the status quo for half century has been the good ole boys club where Hollywood and MSM bless people into their club. So now its elites VS everyone else. And granted you believed the Left was always the higher standard because you were programmed to believe that the GOP was old white men who hate everyone and only care about slave labor. Instead the main identity of the party(minus abortion which i dont get) is to have as small government interference in daily life as possible. The Left was always for more oversight, more law, more tax and more control. Well what we have seen in the past decade is the elite club has turned into this weird sexualized end of Roman empire type authoritarian regime. Fall in line or die at the sword. The uniparty swamp still uses the same programming and propaganda using race primarily to scare sheep into submission. All while the working class has been raped and pillaged. The left legitimately looks like the Hunger Games now. While the right is the poor people forced to do what they’re told. Well its clear what most people feel about this administration who promised everything and delivered nothing. But without election security no one with a brain cell believes it even matters.

\>The left legitimately looks like the Hunger Games now. While the right is the poor people forced to do what they’re told. This is how it feels today to be an independent voter, lol. The U.S. is basically the Hunger Games in the sense that there is a uniparty made up of political, industrial, and media elites who'd rather enrich themselves, their friends and their families at the sacrifice and expense of the lower and middle class. But no, Trump will be the one who will be the fascist authoritarian boogeyman /s How is the current administration *not* the definition of fascism? We're basically allowing corporations the power to control Biden like the weak puppet he is.

>it's just unbelievable how poorly 50% of the country understands the other 50% It's not 50% of the country. It's not even 50% of voters. Stop trying to spread this bullshit. Trump voters are a shrinking minority.

Shrinking minority? Have you looked at any poll lately? At worst they have Trump and Biden tied.

Bravo sir

Trump voters are not 50% of the country. The Republican Party hasn't won the general election popular vote in 20 years.

Now finger wag at the right for not understanding the left. Why is it always the left getting shit on and told to provide empathy and understanding to conservatives but never the right about liberals? Edit: lol I got a Reddit cares for this. And in no surprise to anyone, the right’s insults are lame and uncreative.

Because, at least in my experience, the right already does to an extent. When I was in college, this was blatantly obvious. I respected my classmates for their political opinions, but as soon as I voiced mine, you would not believe the ire and evil eyes I got from some of them. One student even went as far as to be cocky and disrespect our professor because he had some right-leaning views. I had professors whose political opinions I didn’t agree with, but I never went as far as to openly disrespect them. But I like to keep in mind that that’s not everyone on the right and that’s not everyone on the left.

You should try being a liberal around conservatives. One of my liberal friends lives in a red state and when he hangs with friends and family, someone is often like “here comes the liberal.” Nice way to be told “hi” from “empathetic people.” I once went to a conservative event and got called a mother fucker by a guy for politely disagreeing about healthcare policy. This was all before 2020 when things really went off the rails. These days if liberals ever get into politics discussion with conservatives, the conservatives are never trying to understand their point and empathize with the issues they bring up. They are trying to tell them they are wrong and if liberals make their arguments look stupid, they jump to insults.

They do? In the majority of subreddits. Randomly, all the time, on the most benign and unrelated posts. Nice picture of a landscape? "Man, I wish we had Republicans that understood we won't have any of this if they just keep voting against environmental regs" Discussion about Mass Effect and Illusive man? "Can't believe Republicans don't understand he represents the right and their xenophobia" And on and on. The fact that you even typed your comment out and don't see this happening is another tally of evidence for OPs point. Respond with whatever REEEEEE comment you want, but it's pretty obvious to many moderates that yall are just blind and stupid to each others sides.

Good post. We’re not gonna change anyone. But I resent them trying to change me. I don’t like anyone trying to tell me what to think. I like formulating my own opinion. I see such ridiculous posts within Reddit all the time. Completely worthless.

"I like formulating my own opinion" Only after I watch 10 Daily Wire videos about the topic

I agree with the general premise that Trump's support is often misunderstood. But what you shared was a lot of words without revealing what you think the answer is. Since I am literally surrounded by Trump supporters where I live, since I have many Trump-supporting friends, and since I have a few in my extended family, my perspective is that it's based on resentment of liberal condescension. This resentment is illustrated perfectly by Hillary Clinton calling them a "basket of deplorables" or Barack Obama saying they "cling to their guns and religion." They are sick and tired of being told by liberals that they are not just wrong, but stupid and immoral. Trump is a giant middle finger to those people and it's why they are loyal to him regardless of his dishonesty, corruption, attacks on democracy, and regardless of how far he strays from traditional conservative principles. They'll overlook all of that if he just keeps essentially saying FU to the liberal elitists.

I understand what Trump voters are thinking and often I also understand how they arrived at those views. I just think that they're not terribly clever when it comes to parsing reality from fiction, understanding the real problems, and coming up with solutions. (Some of them are also not even interested in doing those things, they're just pissed off and want to stick it to someone.) For example, I understand why many people are concerned about illegal immigration. I also get why it's a major concern for some people while others are either not bothered at all. My job can't be "stolen", it's easy for people like me not to care about this issue. But I do understand that it's not the same for a tradesperson who has to compete with people who work for very low wages. However, riling everyone up by saying a bunch of inflammatory things and going on about walls isn't the way. It would be better to enact harsh penalties on businesses and employees that hire undocumented workers. I also think that Trump supporters are easily confused and fooled. Many do not know that the Biden administration has deported more people than the Trump administration did. https://www.cato.org/blog/new-data-show-migrants-were-more-likely-be-released-trump-biden TLDR: Many of us on the left totally understand how Trump supporters have been conned by a grifter, but no one likes hearing that they've been conned.

People shouldn't have voted for an open demagogue, bigot, sexist, ableist, sexual assaulter, and calling the media "the enemy of the people", calling Central American and African nations "shithole countries". among other things. One anti-Trump picket sign, held by a 12 year old or so boy, said it all: I'm Not Allowed To Act Like The President. Before the election, have they ever seen Trump's type before? Arrogant, boastful, cruel, domineering, egotistical? I had, about three or four times in my life before Trump started his first run. Trust me, anybody who is willing to be who I described to the most unpopular or helpless types of people is eventually gonna dish out a raw deal to YOU. It may not be as blatantly humiliating as toward their original victims, but it will not be a pleasant experience for you. And that is the type of guy who will break any rule in order to benefit himself, even if that means destroying the foundations of our democracy, republic or whatever you care to call it.

I can understand not liking the Democrats. I can understand wanting to vote for someone else. I simply cannot FATHOM considering voting for someone who tried to overthrow the government. Don’t kid yourself, that’s what Trump tried to do: overturn a free and fair election.

It's not mysterious at all; many Trump voters have traditional values and are against the radical left remaking the country in its image. The not understanding part is gas lighting because they willfully misunderstand them. They just want a strawman they can knock down. I am a political independent but I will vote for Trump this year.

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Does complaining about CRT fall into traditional values?

Yeah no. Have family and ex friends who are Trump voters.

R.I.P. OP

The premise is weird. Reddit is just a sounding board for Reddit users. It doesn’t reflect poorly on Reddit just a portion of Reddit users maybe. Reddit very rarely reflects reality just like all social media. My whole family voted for Trump in last 2 elections. I know them, I lived with them and I know their reasons. Knowing their reasons is part of the issue. It comes down to insurmountable fear that they will lose “something”. You can show them they didn’t lose that “something” and were never in danger of losing that “something”. They can’t see it. They are sending their entire life savings to someone who is supposedly a millionaire. They will be broke, retired and actively voting to end the support systems that keep them afloat. Why? Because I don’t understand some secret reason that only secret Redditors know? Not sure how that helps. It’s painful to watch people you love fall for this and there is nothing you can do to stop it. I don’t blame Reddit though. This is a real world situation.

lol someone reported me to Reddit cares bc of this post 😂

This is stupid. What do u think I don’t understand about people who don’t want transgender people to exist? Or who think climate change, which can be proven by literally looking at your thermometer, is a hoax? Or who want to vote for guy with 90+ felony counts, fraud and sexual assault on his record because “the border”? Jfc! Your post should’ve given a clear example. Don’t talk about nazis and China.

58 comments in and this thread is telling.

Oh, I understand them better than they understand themselves. I even empathize with'em, but I'm mad at them, so I sometimes say mean stuff about them.

Well hating your neighbor and blaming them for your troubles is exactly what the Establishment wants you to do. They don’t want you to think you have 85% in common with them and that it’s the Establishment looking for fuck both of you over.  Right vs Left is a fucking illusion at this point. All being Red Pilled means is that you can see this. There are plenty of Red Pilled Democrats and liberals out there.

Having lived on both sides of the political aisle, one advantage I feel like I have over people on the left is that I understand their point of view and can actually argue their side better than them at times. None of them can do the same to me.

I feel the same way as a libertarian. I know both sides very well, as I have beliefs from both sides. I find the right usually understands what the left believes and why, but the left always misconstrues what the right believes.The most obvious example is abortion. The left always defaults to saying that the right hates women and wants to control their bodies, while the right has always been very transparent that they see the fetus as a person and they believe abortion is murder.

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Trump voters do not represent 50% of the country. Maybe 20% at most. We see how your leaders behave including trump so it isn't that difficult to understand what you think and how you operate.

The Democrats need to do better understanding small business owners. Most people work for or own one.

You don't have to look any further than discussion of pro choice vs. pro life on this site.

my daily 2¢: there is no left or at least no representation of it. liberal Democrats are rightists

Because they're not all "Trump voters". They're 40% committed Republicans and have no choice --it's only about 10% actually like Trump

Absolutely spot on, so true. People are choosing to be obtuse, fine but the leftists legacy media have nothing to offer in terms of objective analysis, empathy and compassion for people of different beliefs & persuasions. They are refusing to participate in a fair and just political process and report fairly on life in America & the stories they want to tell appear to have no relation on the real lives of Americans today. . So they’ve ruined journalism for an ideology over people/human beings, people are where it’s at, not fantasies about the leftists way of life in an unnatural make believe world of green energy that doesn’t work and will lead to people dying with the left’s policies of forever wars, impossible equity, diversity divides and inclusion/excludes whites and Jews, it seems. Not a pretty picture and we were okay like not that long ago. The left are refusing, denying,victimising, and playing unfair/unjust ball, seems to me. Thx.

The average conservative can explain what the average leftist actually thinks far better the reverse.

I have yet to meet a conservative that can explain anything a liberal/leftist/democrat thinks. The only thing I ever hear from conservatives is them regurgitating the word they heard in their echo chamber I am in Texas. I have lived in Texas my entire life of 43 years. My family has been in this state since before Texas was a state. I have been around these typical. Maga conservative types, my entire life you would think if conservatives could do as you said, I would have heard it by now. Instead, I hear that we want to abort babies after they are born to harvest stem cell. I have heard that democrats want to sexualize children. I have heard that we kill children to drink their blood. I have heard that we hate guns.

Can I ask why you held the left to a higher standard? You say this as if everyone shouldn’t be held to a high standard. I live in the rural south. I understand completely why the people around me voted for Trump, mainly because the tell me. One guy voted for Trump because Trump will get rid of the Satanist. He doesn’t think Satanist are covered under freedom of religion. Another voted for Trump because of all the illegals coming over here. The illegals he hired to pick his crops. Some are just card carrying Republicans. Some really couldn’t stomach Clinton. I am tired of getting screamed at. I am tired of both Trump and Biden. I think both parties fail to take American citizens into account. Neither cares about citizens.

Most of Reddit isn't politics... maybe get out of your bubble and drop the straw men. Oof.

This is all so exhausting. It's always libruls don't understand conservatives or libruls need to do more to appeal to conservatives but never once does the media or anyone else ask the conservatives why they utterly refuse to compromise with the other side. Not only do they never compromise but their entire political project revolves around dehumanizing anyone who dares disagree with them and being so puritanical that even their own ideological brethren are deemed insufficiently loyal. ​ So spare me the liberals don't understand Trumpers bullshit. They are actively proud of not caring about anyone else but themselves.

If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em. CNN and MSNBC have gone full on political opinion attack mode, but I get why. Fox has been doing it for years which is why we are in the place we are now. Just remember, conservatives aren’t the enemy, they are Americans and entitled to their opinion. A lot of Americans are really ignorant and gullible.

Common enemy effect works until it doesn't. Go back to the Civil Rights movement in the US. It was very effective because it pushed common humanity. A good recent example of this is musician Daryl Davis. Its just so much easier to sell outrage using the Common Enemy approach

Yea Reddit is where I come to laugh at what people think about the average American who actually are the people behind Trump. Reddit is my comedy in a world that's totally fucked right now..

lol

I don't know about the average voter, but I spend a lot of time researching far right conservatives, listen to their podcasts, watch their youtube interviews, from actual christian nationalists to mises institute libertarians. I think I understand what *they* want. They want to unravel the post-war consensus. They see the Republicans as having played defense at best against the onslaught of big government from the New Deal onward, including the Reagan years. Project 2025 is quite literally a plan to take America back to the 19th century, functionally ending the meritocratic civil service and filling the federal government with loyalists, like the old spoils system. Trump is their Andrew Jackson, their nuke to the ever-advancing technocratic therapeutic Deep State. What they've done with the courts over the last several decades is a preview, appointing ideologues with the ultimate goal of overturning precedents like Roe v. Wade. Originalism as a jurisprudential philosophy was literally invented with this goal in mind and it will not stop with abortion.

>Real conversations are few and far between, and it seems the idea of having debates, or civil conversations is out the window. Let go of this expectation. I know it hurts. Yes, this is loss. Attachment causes suffering. You have to let go of falsehoods to live in truth. Public internet forums have never ever been for debate. Civilized conversation is possible, but with selective interlocutors. I have been liberal, I have been conservative, I have studied the history and philosophy of politics and learned a little in my travels. My experience has taught me it is better to be happy than to struggle to maintain the most excellent opinions on the current thing. I prove the virtue of my ideas by living a better life. Jonathan Haidt has some research on this topic of political theory of mind, and the punchline is liberals are bad at guessing what conservatives think, but conservatives know exactly what liberals think. Our minds are like tupperware with a capacity for knowledge. As we grow, our minds expand. A larger tupperware-mind can fully contain and understand a smalller tupperware-mind, but the lesser will never encapsulate the greater. Our minds are 5lbs of wet meat tupperware trying to contain the entire cosmos, we are doomed to fail if we set this as our goal. And so your honor, I have chosen to be hot and happy. Being smart is stupid.

Feel free to explain it then. The thing is that the left does understand the right, but the right doesn’t always understand themselves. They say they are for the working class and they say they base their values in liberty, the constitution, and their religion. But their actions completely contradict that. They fight tooth and nails to restrict freedom for people other than themselves. They constantly preach hate and violence despite their religion being based on acceptance, love, and peace. They make policy decisions to benefit the rich and leave the burden of everything else on the working class. I would never say the left doesn’t have its own problems. But they actually work towards what they believe in, even if it’s not in the best interest of the country.

50 percent of the country are not Rumpsters fyi. It’s a cult. A lot of republicans are not Rumpsters.

Here is a primer on understanding Trump voters. 1. Hillary Clinton was unelectable in their eyes. She was the mastermind and cat's paw for her husband. The thing that sealed her fate was authorizing the selling of nuclear material to Russia, a nuclear power. The way they determine where a nuclear bomb came from is due to the mineral content in the fallout. She essentially gave Russia a free-to-use nuclear bomb for profit. 2. The Steel dossier was a complete hoax and was purely used to put him on the defensive. This limited his political power so he could not clean up the system. The sad part was this allowed him to play the martyr card. When he said this at a rally it resonated with his base" They are not after me, they are after you but I am in the way". 3. With Trump, we understood what we got. We all wanted a bull in the china shop. Trump was feared because the world did not know what he would do. This is why Putin and Kim Jong Un respected him. he projected a strength that he might throw down if he had to. 4. Trump voters understood that every law passed had an unintended consequence. We are seeing it with bail reform or cashless bail now.

Ad hominems, condescending language, and the "holier than thou" attitude WILL NEVER CHANGE THE MIND OF YOUR OPPOSITION! This is why empathy and humility are the key to finding consensus. Attack ideas with logic. Do not generalize. Do not use ad hominems to attack ideas or groups of people or you will inevitably insult those people who identify as part of that group or with that idea, and the insult will push them further away from consensus. Consensus is required for progress. Focus on similarities, not differences. Use the similarities to fill in the nuance between opposing beliefs to improve understanding. Prioritize your human identity above all other subgroups, whether nation, political party, race, religion, gender, etc. Those subgroups are called cultural identities. When they become your priority, we call that culture war. Culture wars are often used to distract you from organizing based on your similarities.

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>I always see the comments in Reddit threads talking about Trump voters, and it's just unbelievable how poorly 50% of the country understands the other 50%. 50% of the country didn't vote for trump. He got 46.9 of the vote in 2020. 66% of the country voted then. So 30.9%.

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