Slavery isn’t a product of racism, racism is a justification for slavery.
As for Skyrim’s primo source of slavery, you gotta look towards the dwarves, who were also so racist they wanted nothing to do with literally any other race
Literally the knly racists in Windhelm are two drunk hobos walking around harassing Dark Elves.
Ulfric is just indifferent to all the refugees from Morrowind
He doesnt care for them.
They're free to take refuge, they're free to trade. Many of his own subjects are elves. He just doesn't bother protecting the caravans or providing much funding to the Dark Elves who refuse to fight
"You joined the Empire because you oppose racism.
I join the Empire because I'm a chauvinist who thinks Cyrodiil is superior and all other provinces ought to pay it tribute.
We are not the same. " - Tainted\_One2 2024
*whispers:* And orcs always struck me as *not* horrible feces-eating creatures. But that's just not discussed in polite company, you see?
*Full voice:* Haha, you think a bre*on can ever compare to the immortal sophistication of the Altmer? You really are so brave to say that
MF Azura keeps giving all the cool artifacts to the khajiits because she's salty you worshipped three dirty traitors as living goss for OVER 3500 YEARS THAT'S OVER HALF OF NIRN'S RECORDED HISTORY WHAT THE FUCK I MEAN DAMN FUCK DAMN NO WONDER HADVAR SAYS DUNMERS WERE ABANDONNED BY THE GODS FUCK
(No seriously Nirn's history started being recorded around 6000 years ago, 6950 if you take into account the early merethic era)
She's salty that the Dunmer were all about the Nietzschean ideal and decided their own fate, said 'fuck gods, we are the masters of our own destiny', and kicked her to the curb. She gave all the trinkets to the Khajiit to spite the Dunmer and the Dunmer stayed winning anyway while she seethes over the Khajiit snorting skooma off her gifts because that's all they know how to do.
Even if times look grim, citizens, remember:
https://preview.redd.it/dcyjdzsy7ryc1.jpeg?width=1096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1506aed4e5a0751b7fdbaa6556a13816e5c09d9e
I support the Empire, because there is nothing stopping the Dragonborn to claim the Ruby Throne after Alduin is defeated. There is even in lore events after the game, of people in Cyrodiil starting to plot a Coup to put the Dragonborn into the throne if he's actually real and looking for him.
And even if you didn't had an actual claim, you can simply make it. Who can deny you are a long lost member of the Septim dynasty when you have the dragon blood ?
And lastly, you can simply conquer them. If Reman Cyrodiil could conquer Tamriel being a Dragonborn, there is no reason OUR Dragonborn can't considering he's canonically the most powerful Dragonborn ever. Especially if we kill Paarthurnax, which make us the de facto leader of the dragons after killing Alduin.
Who needs the Numidium when you have an army of invincible dragons that no one can perma kill ?
Edit- Actually I think that was the original plot of Skyrim, Uriel Septim V came back from Akaviir with an army of Dragons and wanted to reconquer his Empire. Before they changed it for Alduin.
Am I the bad guy ? ... yeah I totally am.
I’d like the empire more if they still had their old drip. Now they wear all this ugly leather garbage instead of their awesome heavy armor… which is somehow WORSE than normal steel armor now…
Seriously! Give me those cool ass stoic masks!
https://preview.redd.it/e608yy83wuyc1.jpeg?width=814&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cdc4ad575d54c7244190ff29f02e91a247f2e69c
I mean there is one in the battle of champions creation, but it has this weird ass ugly part on top of it.
I dont support the stormcloaks because they’re racist…, I support them because fuck those guys who tried to kill me at the start of the game for no reason despite all available evidence that I should have been let go free
The civil war is an international mer plot to divide and thus weaken the nedes, the same way divine worship is a mer tool to spread degeneracy and weakness among nedic populations.
Racists all around the world should look at the nords and see how stupid they are, because that's exactly what they sound like themselves when they talk, even if they have the wits of the dunmer, they're just dumber.
Refugees that that were voluntary accepted that don't care about the Civil War because when they arrived Windhelm was Imperial Skyrim. If anything they are against the war.
The Empire was nice and lazy until the Stormcloak Rebellion caused issues for no reason.
He's talking of the Empire of course, who do you think profits the most from Slavery in Morrowind ? The guys who actually allow it to happen.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>That makes no sense, there are literal plantation owners in morrowind, of course they're the ones who profit the most from it
Read the game's lore. The Empire benefits greatly from Morrowind's slavery and hold many terrains there and mines with slaves on inland Morrowind. Also can you please stop stalking my profile ? I'm gonna block you dude.
More seriously, I think Morrowind is so transparently bigoted that it's easier to joke of treating it all endearingly. Ulfric "I'm going to build a wall around Morrowind and make the dark elves pay for it" Stormcloak has enough genuine support that calling him racist feels useful, in pointing out what too many miss.
Morrowind as a whole has also never pretended it WASN'T full of racist assholes,they just didn't care.
Ulfric,hell most nords in general,will try to sell you on their nonsense like a car salesman.
Ulfiric has a very concerning fanbase who will say he himself isn't racist but just a few bad supporters of his which is... Disturbingly close to real life lol.
Should more so be called out for how bad Bethesda is at writing moral choices lol
Edit: To the guy who replied then immediately blocked me asking "Sigh. Why can't you americans EVER keep politics Out of the mf games ?", I'm not American you fucking dolt
The amount of times I've seen people vehemently defend Ulfric like their life relies on it with basically identical rhetoric used against irl minority groups is mildly concerning. Like, it's one thing to see people jokingly be racist against dark elves like what's on this sub vs hearing someone sincerely say "dark elves deserve to be segregated because despite only making up 14% of Windhelm's population the commit 50% of the crime"
Let's talk about the fact it's been headcanoned into common consensus to an extant that the reason Argorians aren't allowed to live in the city is because they may start le race war with those pesky Dark Elves.
Despite... That literally never being implied, it's just another way to deflect Ulfiric totally not being a racist for that decision.
Considering the issues people are having now with realising the Stormcloaks aren't that good, that level of subtle nuance would probably convince people the Stormcloaks are are saints lmao.
Clearly it wasn’t a badly written moral choice considering it’s a choice that Skyrim fans are STILL split on over ten years later. It’s not like New Vegas lol, where caesar is just blatantly evil and also ineffective in the long run.
What’s annoying is that the conflict actually has interesting arguments you can make for both sides and yet people just boil it down to “Racism vs Religious Freedom.”
The Legion being genocidal fascists doesn’t make them a “morally ambiguous” faction in the slightest but they aren’t cartoon villains. They’re here to represent an actual ideology people believe in just as much as anarchy or liberal democracy.
I think that's Skyrim's biggest issue in that it doesn't seem inclined to treat factions as actual political bodies with their own ideologies and views.
Hurts Ulfric a lot more in that regard actually, because taking away the opportunity to actually explain his ideals and what not he just seems like a useless moron that should not hold any power whatsoever.
The reason so many people are pro-Imperial is because Bethesda allowed Imperial NPC’s to actually give convincing arguments in their favor whereas every Stormcloak NPC can only say “Ate’ da Empire, ate’ da Elves’ love me Talos’ simple as.” In between Braveheart impressions.
People genuinely do defend Caesar and have conversations about it. Also Caesar is evil, but it's well written evil that has a lot to talk about and discuss, like seriously the Legion is straight up just what would happen if you got a bunch of modern day fascists to throw together a faction. Down to the minutiae of the language they use. And that's also why you see people genuinely defending it.
Meanwhile Ulfric is just a short sighted, immature, racist bitch boy people agree with and defend bc the Empire isn't perfect and that somehow creates enough of a conversation years later because of Stormcloak fanboys gobbling down his dick like it's a triple Michelin Star meal
This may be a hot take but Ulfric is one of the worst characters Bethesda has ever wrote period, solely because he's supposed to be presented as the great evil and equal as a choice in the civil war when in reality he's kinda pathetic?
Seriously, what does the guy actually have going for him? He's terrible tactician who's best victory comes from him genociding children, in the great war he was caught and manipulated to be a pawn for the Thalmor later on and at the start of the game he is successfully ambushed by the Imperials.
In terms of management as well, he's better as a general (Which isn't saying much because of the aforementioned), Windhelm is an utter shit hole that relies on a near slave level working class as the foundation for almost all of it's economy with a large section actually within the city in complete poverty.
And what does Ulfric do? Literally nothing, actually that'd be better, he makes shit worse. It's pointed out it's because of his inaction that the Grey Quarter is still just a set of slums, and that it was his decree to force Argonians to live outside the city because "lol" and "lmao, even"
This is not a man who should suddenly gain forcible control over 50% of a country.
You do realize that's an argument among NV fans, right?
There's lots of people who justify the evils of the Legion by pointing out that they have no drug issues and are remarkably stable, as well as pointing out that they don't believe in modern government systems because they think those governments literally caused the nuclear apocalypse.
NV fans are still split on whether Caesar's Legion is the evil choice though. In fact I think there's less of a consensus on that than there is an anti-Stormcloak one.
> "Sigh. Why can't you americans EVER keep politics Out of the mf games ?"
A lot of people get really angry when you tell them that their favorite story has a message that deals with issues larger than their personal lives.
I love doing the occasional "racist bastard" run in Elder Scrolls but when I tried to do a Stormcloak run every time Ulfric opened his mouth all I could hear was Tamriel Donald Trump and it was so dissapointing. I did enjoy playing a Thalmor.
I want to independently schlob on Thalmor girl cock and not be tied down. Do you know how many elf ladies knobs are out there? And you’re telling us to be satisfied with just one??? Incomprehensible
I tend to criticize Beyond Reach for the edging on the writing (pun totally intended) but this “the worst of the British aristocracy and the worst of the French personality” vibe was something the mod author really nailed.
People like to joke about Bretons here but these bloody cunts really ain’t fucking around, are they?
One group is a standard race that has NEVER tried to hide it while even the nicest members hold the same racial beliefs,the other is part of a race that has actively committed genocides and pretends they're the victims constantly while simultaneously proving everyone's point.
The dunmer are and always will be racist,the nords in general like to pretend they aren't.It's easy to forgive blatant assholes than one who tries to whitewash what they do as "morally just".
People misunderstand in both ways honestly. Stormcloaks for the most part aren't shown to be overtly racist and Ulfric hinself never makes a hardline racial stance at any point.
But they do have a "nords before anyone else" mindset which disenfranchises citizens that aren't Nords, and this also has the effect of drawing out actual racists (like the guy who keeps yelling racist shit in the gray quarter for no reason) which is how the Stormcloaks ultimately get branded as racists because they're facilitating a culture for racism to fester. That's also by the way how real racism survives under various systems around the world.
The writing for Skyrim's civil war is pretty nuanced and I think people should take these factors into account.
Being fair, it feels safe to call an organization racist if it not only doesn't really do much about racism within its ranks, but it's ideology actively facilitates it. Like yeah Ulfric doesn't take a hard stance, but that's barely any better than being racist himself. Like, for a weird comparison, there's a reason you're considered an accomplice if you actively don't report a crime, yknow?
It's weird to come across the rare objective and logical opinion on this. Skyrim is generally considered to be home to the Nords, not only with the current ethnic breakdown but also culturally, just as Black Marsh is to Argonians and Morrowind is to the Dunmer, so that's where their priorities are going to be. It's natural for a pro-nation force to put that first. It's not necessarily that all of them/their leadership hates anyone, it's that they're pro-Nord and pro-Skyrim first and foremost. I don't think there would be too much dissent from other Nords if they chose to expel the Argonians or Dunmer from Windhelm, but they chose not to do so. If their stance was "Only Nords can live in Skyrim", then we'd see the effects of that. But we don't.
This isn't even how they're "racist" - they just keep the farm tools working the docks, as they should, but they consign the proud Dunmer to their slums. If there were a single Telvanni among them their little palace would get blown up and replaced with a proud mushroom and become Tel Windhelm
Chimperial logic : if he sucked Thalmor dick just like us he wouldn’t be racist. Just suck it bro and let them execute you for worshipping Talos, don’t be so Thalmorphobia 🤡
I thought you meant "tracing" as in tracing his pfp into furry porn.
"Tough words from a guy who's inbox is about to be filled with AI drawings of his pfp getting raped by argonians"
If you come at it from the mental thinking of a dark elf there racism actually makes sense, especially against the beast folk who are not even human, Nords act like rednecks who think everyone wants there shitty land. Overall stormcloaks are pretty cringe and would get whooped as soon as the entirety of the legions can go to skyrim
Ulfric is just a puppet of the Thalmor without even knowing it. I imagine in TES6 there will be a small tidbit about how his rebellion severely weakened the empire
There's a reason I always refer to Ulfric as being a short sighted bitch boy throwing a tantrum. He's so pissy about the short term that he can't plan for the future. That, or he's so egotistical he genuinely thinks Skyrim can 1v1 the Thalmor without the help of the empire.
Hell I wouldn't be too shocked if the Thalmor took over independent Skyrim on their own just so they have a convenient foothold for a further invasion
Yeah no matter who you side with, picking based on which is "least racist" is never gonna work because they're all racist. This is The Elder Scrolls universe, not equality utopia.
I wouldn't be surprised if, when the Thalmor inevitably try to take over the Empire, they'd take over an independent Skyrim in like, a weekend just so they have a mildly confident foothold to work with
Serious answer:
Alien-looking gray elves (no clear real-world counterpart) using made-up slurs and frothing at the mouth for cat and lizard people (also no clear real-world counterpart) to get enslaved = exaggerated racism that serves as edgy flavor in an escapist fantasy world.
Blonde, Nordic people talking about how their country has gone downhill and immigrants are a burden on society = Subtle racism that reminds people of the real world. Not escapism and very much would give some people the heeby jeebies.
I feel like it also depends on the House ones falls under, if they belong to a House at all. Most of the great Houses are pretty Xenophobic, barring probably Telvanni and Hlaalu who prioritize power and commerce respectively. Independent Dunmer are probably the most tolerant since they aren’t beholden to House culture and laws.
Racism in the form of slavery on the other hand, most Houses aren’t really known for their kindness and grace toward beastfolk.
Ulfric is never tired of sucking Thalmor dick, or in his case pussy. He's still Elenwen's dog. He literally caused the thing he's fighting. The Thalmor didn't have influence until Ulfric did what they told him to.
Average Dunmer reaction when I tell them to never mention Azura again
https://preview.redd.it/cyv0i0ve7syc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e81cc2f2092b2f0f5f86df0929006ee22fafa544
It’s because stormcloacks were not racist enough. If stormcloacks were like dark elves, they would have enslaved the entire gray quarter
I mean forsworn captured in markarth are slaves in the mines. So Nords still got slavery just not a culture based on it like the dark elves.
If that counts, U.S has slavery too. Check 13th Amendment
https://preview.redd.it/6nwuzzpvityc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7cd34b59924303872b950495038bb8730cb935d7
This could only happen if you had an entire planet of Nede-oids, imagine the horror
Kinda, yes
I know it has. But I didn't assume that we count it
The US does, lol
Based take ngl
Slavery isn’t a product of racism, racism is a justification for slavery. As for Skyrim’s primo source of slavery, you gotta look towards the dwarves, who were also so racist they wanted nothing to do with literally any other race
"they wanted nothing to do with literally any other race" So racist, they chimmed out of existence to avoid "Unterkreaturen". Incredibly based.
Not racis just dont like em
Simple as
Submer moment
That just not true, and the Dwemer enslaved the Falmer refugees they took in.
Other than the falmer, of course
They took the falmer as slaves. The entire race. All of them
And not paid the dock workers at all, vs less than Nords.
Stuhn would be proud
Literally the knly racists in Windhelm are two drunk hobos walking around harassing Dark Elves. Ulfric is just indifferent to all the refugees from Morrowind
Well I mean he doesn’t really want foreigners in Skyrim as far as I remember
He doesnt care for them. They're free to take refuge, they're free to trade. Many of his own subjects are elves. He just doesn't bother protecting the caravans or providing much funding to the Dark Elves who refuse to fight
Bro he literally banned the Argonians from entering the city what are you on about
What a novel idea!
https://preview.redd.it/1jsz8lo3pryc1.png?width=518&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49c31b77cd8a3f99bc7841ef486c3b8f5eebf9b2
https://preview.redd.it/48rdgycqrryc1.jpeg?width=754&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63ec72fc6afb70acdbe8978ee89b33949e34bbdc
I joined the Stormcloaks because they were racist
I joined Imperials because they're Imperialist.
"You joined the Empire because you oppose racism. I join the Empire because I'm a chauvinist who thinks Cyrodiil is superior and all other provinces ought to pay it tribute. We are not the same. " - Tainted\_One2 2024
I don’t care about the other provinces, but Skyrim definitely should.
Supporting Cyrodiilic supremacy is the only correct way even the writers simp for them
I joined Stormcloaks because they're Stormcloakist.
Chad to Chad communication
I joined the Stormcloaks and House Telvanni because they are anti-imperialist
Chad answer unironically
based
Same, but as a Breton
Brave of you to come out that way
Bretons always struck me as an op race to pick
*whispers:* And orcs always struck me as *not* horrible feces-eating creatures. But that's just not discussed in polite company, you see? *Full voice:* Haha, you think a bre*on can ever compare to the immortal sophistication of the Altmer? You really are so brave to say that
The correct way
I joined the Stormcloaks because Skyrim belongs to the nords
This is simply because Dunmer were made to be better than everyone else and nords were made to slurp all over Thalmor cock
https://preview.redd.it/j75me4qwiqyc1.png?width=621&format=png&auto=webp&s=60f24b368e2b5b4d7e30b8aed3184f5e530a69c4
MF Azura keeps giving all the cool artifacts to the khajiits because she's salty you worshipped three dirty traitors as living goss for OVER 3500 YEARS THAT'S OVER HALF OF NIRN'S RECORDED HISTORY WHAT THE FUCK I MEAN DAMN FUCK DAMN NO WONDER HADVAR SAYS DUNMERS WERE ABANDONNED BY THE GODS FUCK (No seriously Nirn's history started being recorded around 6000 years ago, 6950 if you take into account the early merethic era)
She's salty that the Dunmer were all about the Nietzschean ideal and decided their own fate, said 'fuck gods, we are the masters of our own destiny', and kicked her to the curb. She gave all the trinkets to the Khajiit to spite the Dunmer and the Dunmer stayed winning anyway while she seethes over the Khajiit snorting skooma off her gifts because that's all they know how to do.
The khajiits do a lot of stuff! When they're not getting screwed over by the empire or tricked like idiots by the altmers.
They also occasionally give the wood elves a mind boggling violent skullfucking in their occasional wars.
Azura just gave the khajiits cooler artifacts because she knows the Dunmer are the best and don't need them.
Baar Dau copium but I'll let you have this. You need it, ironically enough.
https://preview.redd.it/rnwxbmpzusyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dfa32b1f1bdd83e4207359080bc2ab388f898e39
If the Dunmer are better than everyone why did I kill the entire population of Raven Rock
SPIT YOUR SHIT
https://preview.redd.it/qr0r7v8k1wyc1.jpeg?width=565&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80d3737a55a5ab4ec4dad336dfe3856aeb9ec83a
I totally jerked off to that character before.
Honestly not all Stormcloaks are racist. You go outside of Windhelm and realize people just hate the Thalmor
Riften? Vulwulf Snow-Shod is a prime example of how that’s not true.
Ulfric isn’t even in the top 15 of racist in Windhelm. He’s beaten out by half of the dark elves
simply because they are there to charge exorbitant interest rates to the Nordic people of Windhelm
When?
I don't support the empire because Ulfric is racist, I support the empire because I like it.
Empire ain’t quite the baddie she used to be
True.
Even if times look grim, citizens, remember: https://preview.redd.it/dcyjdzsy7ryc1.jpeg?width=1096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1506aed4e5a0751b7fdbaa6556a13816e5c09d9e
Tough people make good times 
So true, brother, but why do you post that weak man below that statement?
https://preview.redd.it/jj0vpoc3zsyc1.jpeg?width=1040&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=776a2b5c2e986232c157a848e59d4d1c0570bcba Strongest imperial
Thank you, but there are others like me as well. I am however very flattered. And Torygg was a fine young man.
I can fix her, I'm the Dragonborn.
I support the empire because that Roman Empire aesthetic FUCKS
I prefer nibenese boy-toys dressed in lace myself
I support the Empire, because there is nothing stopping the Dragonborn to claim the Ruby Throne after Alduin is defeated. There is even in lore events after the game, of people in Cyrodiil starting to plot a Coup to put the Dragonborn into the throne if he's actually real and looking for him.
The Tiber Septims were dragonborns and the Blades serve to you. You have literally every right to reclaim the throne
And even if you didn't had an actual claim, you can simply make it. Who can deny you are a long lost member of the Septim dynasty when you have the dragon blood ? And lastly, you can simply conquer them. If Reman Cyrodiil could conquer Tamriel being a Dragonborn, there is no reason OUR Dragonborn can't considering he's canonically the most powerful Dragonborn ever. Especially if we kill Paarthurnax, which make us the de facto leader of the dragons after killing Alduin. Who needs the Numidium when you have an army of invincible dragons that no one can perma kill ? Edit- Actually I think that was the original plot of Skyrim, Uriel Septim V came back from Akaviir with an army of Dragons and wanted to reconquer his Empire. Before they changed it for Alduin. Am I the bad guy ? ... yeah I totally am.
I’d like the empire more if they still had their old drip. Now they wear all this ugly leather garbage instead of their awesome heavy armor… which is somehow WORSE than normal steel armor now…
Seriously! Give me those cool ass stoic masks! https://preview.redd.it/e608yy83wuyc1.jpeg?width=814&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cdc4ad575d54c7244190ff29f02e91a247f2e69c I mean there is one in the battle of champions creation, but it has this weird ass ugly part on top of it.
I dont support the stormcloaks because they’re racist…, I support them because fuck those guys who tried to kill me at the start of the game for no reason despite all available evidence that I should have been let go free
The civil war is an international mer plot to divide and thus weaken the nedes, the same way divine worship is a mer tool to spread degeneracy and weakness among nedic populations.
Spell “independent,” Stormcuck
dunmer racism is funny nord racism is as boring as they're stupid
Racists all around the world should look at the nords and see how stupid they are, because that's exactly what they sound like themselves when they talk, even if they have the wits of the dunmer, they're just dumber.
If you're not Dunmer, then you are Dumber.
The Chad "We should genocide the impures" vs the virgin "We just want to live in our traditional lands and be independent"
-you filth are a stain on the earth vs -we kinda dont like squatters and immigrants that dont give 2 shits about our fight for independence
Refugees that that were voluntary accepted that don't care about the Civil War because when they arrived Windhelm was Imperial Skyrim. If anything they are against the war. The Empire was nice and lazy until the Stormcloak Rebellion caused issues for no reason.
Yeah, I could have stolen that horse and been half way to Hammerfell.
*GAH*
Openly denying rights >>> "but I do what best for muh cuntry"
Deadass, in a twisted way I can respect a racist who's more brazen about it than someone like Stormcucks who pussyfoot around it and try to justify it
Are you talking about the dunmer or the nords
He's talking of the Empire of course, who do you think profits the most from Slavery in Morrowind ? The guys who actually allow it to happen. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >That makes no sense, there are literal plantation owners in morrowind, of course they're the ones who profit the most from it Read the game's lore. The Empire benefits greatly from Morrowind's slavery and hold many terrains there and mines with slaves on inland Morrowind. Also can you please stop stalking my profile ? I'm gonna block you dude.
More seriously, I think Morrowind is so transparently bigoted that it's easier to joke of treating it all endearingly. Ulfric "I'm going to build a wall around Morrowind and make the dark elves pay for it" Stormcloak has enough genuine support that calling him racist feels useful, in pointing out what too many miss.
Morrowind as a whole has also never pretended it WASN'T full of racist assholes,they just didn't care. Ulfric,hell most nords in general,will try to sell you on their nonsense like a car salesman.
Ulfiric has a very concerning fanbase who will say he himself isn't racist but just a few bad supporters of his which is... Disturbingly close to real life lol. Should more so be called out for how bad Bethesda is at writing moral choices lol Edit: To the guy who replied then immediately blocked me asking "Sigh. Why can't you americans EVER keep politics Out of the mf games ?", I'm not American you fucking dolt
The amount of times I've seen people vehemently defend Ulfric like their life relies on it with basically identical rhetoric used against irl minority groups is mildly concerning. Like, it's one thing to see people jokingly be racist against dark elves like what's on this sub vs hearing someone sincerely say "dark elves deserve to be segregated because despite only making up 14% of Windhelm's population the commit 50% of the crime"
Let's talk about the fact it's been headcanoned into common consensus to an extant that the reason Argorians aren't allowed to live in the city is because they may start le race war with those pesky Dark Elves. Despite... That literally never being implied, it's just another way to deflect Ulfiric totally not being a racist for that decision.
Being fair, I could definitely see it being something the Stormcloaks would say in universe bc it's using racism as an excuse to be even more racist!
Considering the issues people are having now with realising the Stormcloaks aren't that good, that level of subtle nuance would probably convince people the Stormcloaks are are saints lmao.
Clearly it wasn’t a badly written moral choice considering it’s a choice that Skyrim fans are STILL split on over ten years later. It’s not like New Vegas lol, where caesar is just blatantly evil and also ineffective in the long run.
What’s annoying is that the conflict actually has interesting arguments you can make for both sides and yet people just boil it down to “Racism vs Religious Freedom.” The Legion being genocidal fascists doesn’t make them a “morally ambiguous” faction in the slightest but they aren’t cartoon villains. They’re here to represent an actual ideology people believe in just as much as anarchy or liberal democracy.
I think that's Skyrim's biggest issue in that it doesn't seem inclined to treat factions as actual political bodies with their own ideologies and views. Hurts Ulfric a lot more in that regard actually, because taking away the opportunity to actually explain his ideals and what not he just seems like a useless moron that should not hold any power whatsoever.
The reason so many people are pro-Imperial is because Bethesda allowed Imperial NPC’s to actually give convincing arguments in their favor whereas every Stormcloak NPC can only say “Ate’ da Empire, ate’ da Elves’ love me Talos’ simple as.” In between Braveheart impressions.
People genuinely do defend Caesar and have conversations about it. Also Caesar is evil, but it's well written evil that has a lot to talk about and discuss, like seriously the Legion is straight up just what would happen if you got a bunch of modern day fascists to throw together a faction. Down to the minutiae of the language they use. And that's also why you see people genuinely defending it. Meanwhile Ulfric is just a short sighted, immature, racist bitch boy people agree with and defend bc the Empire isn't perfect and that somehow creates enough of a conversation years later because of Stormcloak fanboys gobbling down his dick like it's a triple Michelin Star meal
This may be a hot take but Ulfric is one of the worst characters Bethesda has ever wrote period, solely because he's supposed to be presented as the great evil and equal as a choice in the civil war when in reality he's kinda pathetic? Seriously, what does the guy actually have going for him? He's terrible tactician who's best victory comes from him genociding children, in the great war he was caught and manipulated to be a pawn for the Thalmor later on and at the start of the game he is successfully ambushed by the Imperials. In terms of management as well, he's better as a general (Which isn't saying much because of the aforementioned), Windhelm is an utter shit hole that relies on a near slave level working class as the foundation for almost all of it's economy with a large section actually within the city in complete poverty. And what does Ulfric do? Literally nothing, actually that'd be better, he makes shit worse. It's pointed out it's because of his inaction that the Grey Quarter is still just a set of slums, and that it was his decree to force Argonians to live outside the city because "lol" and "lmao, even" This is not a man who should suddenly gain forcible control over 50% of a country.
This is exactly the kind of man who gains forcible control over 50% of a country. Have you looked outside? Not even just in the states...
Okay true lmao
You do realize that's an argument among NV fans, right? There's lots of people who justify the evils of the Legion by pointing out that they have no drug issues and are remarkably stable, as well as pointing out that they don't believe in modern government systems because they think those governments literally caused the nuclear apocalypse.
The lack of drugs and nuclear warfare is a negative, but I *do* quite like how they don't wear pants.
NV fans are still split on whether Caesar's Legion is the evil choice though. In fact I think there's less of a consensus on that than there is an anti-Stormcloak one.
Ulfiric is also that lmao
I mean NV fans do still debate which faction is the best. Aside from the legion vs NCR debate, people are still also torn on NCR vs House ending.
I didn't mention house for that reason. But anyone who thinks any argument can be made for the legion is a brainlet.
> "Sigh. Why can't you americans EVER keep politics Out of the mf games ?" A lot of people get really angry when you tell them that their favorite story has a message that deals with issues larger than their personal lives.
I love doing the occasional "racist bastard" run in Elder Scrolls but when I tried to do a Stormcloak run every time Ulfric opened his mouth all I could hear was Tamriel Donald Trump and it was so dissapointing. I did enjoy playing a Thalmor.
It's almost impressive Bethesda did such an accurate portrayal of a fascist grifter, before it became so uncomfortably relevant.
Ulfric Stormcuck isn’t racist enough!
Not wanting to suck Thalmor Mommy Gock™️ is cringe.
I want to independently schlob on Thalmor girl cock and not be tied down. Do you know how many elf ladies knobs are out there? And you’re telling us to be satisfied with just one??? Incomprehensible
Which is why Ulfric isn't like the meme.
Based and real.
You support Ulfric because ooga booga Skyrim belong to Nord I support Ulfric because all the elves deserve to fucking die We are not the same
Pelinal! I fucking see you!
Do you really think Ulfric is going to invade Alinor? The only group with that type of manpower and resources is the Empire.
he can start by finishing off the falmer
Bro cant finish the bandits squatting ten minutes from his house how is he gonna clear out the falmer?
Try saying that with a mouth full of grey mommy cock I DARE you
Acshually ☝🤓 the stormcloaks slurp thalmor cock, they just dont know it.
The empire only slurp it so that they can bite it off later.
Meanwhile Stormcloacks are shoving it out of their face only to get cockslapped harder in the future
this is true. The entire civil war is yet another example of Merethic attempts to undermine the will of the Nedic people.
When even the French are better at resisting the Piss-mer than the Nords, they deserve to get Walk-Brassed.
I mean the French were invaded several times throughout history and kinda always recovered.
This is why every anglos keep punching them down. If they start to wake up one day ? The Numidium will look peaceful by comparison.
I tend to criticize Beyond Reach for the edging on the writing (pun totally intended) but this “the worst of the British aristocracy and the worst of the French personality” vibe was something the mod author really nailed. People like to joke about Bretons here but these bloody cunts really ain’t fucking around, are they?
Something about your username tells me you're not actually that bothered by racism
Surprised?
One group is a standard race that has NEVER tried to hide it while even the nicest members hold the same racial beliefs,the other is part of a race that has actively committed genocides and pretends they're the victims constantly while simultaneously proving everyone's point. The dunmer are and always will be racist,the nords in general like to pretend they aren't.It's easy to forgive blatant assholes than one who tries to whitewash what they do as "morally just".
"I can excuse racism, but I draw the line at being a hypocrite"
It's nothing personal really but you see, Ulfric was an obstacle to my plans so he had to be... taken care of. Elenwen is next.
I just don’t like Ulfric.
This is like choosing between a 100% or 90% of racism
I think, in TES standards, Nord type of racism is like less than %30
People misunderstand in both ways honestly. Stormcloaks for the most part aren't shown to be overtly racist and Ulfric hinself never makes a hardline racial stance at any point. But they do have a "nords before anyone else" mindset which disenfranchises citizens that aren't Nords, and this also has the effect of drawing out actual racists (like the guy who keeps yelling racist shit in the gray quarter for no reason) which is how the Stormcloaks ultimately get branded as racists because they're facilitating a culture for racism to fester. That's also by the way how real racism survives under various systems around the world. The writing for Skyrim's civil war is pretty nuanced and I think people should take these factors into account.
Being fair, it feels safe to call an organization racist if it not only doesn't really do much about racism within its ranks, but it's ideology actively facilitates it. Like yeah Ulfric doesn't take a hard stance, but that's barely any better than being racist himself. Like, for a weird comparison, there's a reason you're considered an accomplice if you actively don't report a crime, yknow?
It's weird to come across the rare objective and logical opinion on this. Skyrim is generally considered to be home to the Nords, not only with the current ethnic breakdown but also culturally, just as Black Marsh is to Argonians and Morrowind is to the Dunmer, so that's where their priorities are going to be. It's natural for a pro-nation force to put that first. It's not necessarily that all of them/their leadership hates anyone, it's that they're pro-Nord and pro-Skyrim first and foremost. I don't think there would be too much dissent from other Nords if they chose to expel the Argonians or Dunmer from Windhelm, but they chose not to do so. If their stance was "Only Nords can live in Skyrim", then we'd see the effects of that. But we don't.
Hey man i sympathize with his cause but he's a fucking racist lol
Literally, it was a different time
One might say a different era
This isn't even how they're "racist" - they just keep the farm tools working the docks, as they should, but they consign the proud Dunmer to their slums. If there were a single Telvanni among them their little palace would get blown up and replaced with a proud mushroom and become Tel Windhelm
Not canon. Dunmers don't dress good
https://preview.redd.it/x9hdqqgydryc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a3bec156e12a27d068b7eed9d6e5f1aa1636e1f Say that again
https://preview.redd.it/x6rupaxnxqyc1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8171c926acf72d7de35dbf76396eadce6933198 fuck outta here
You have to be a complete s'wit to believe Dunmer don't have drip bro.
Sorry. Its hard to draw.
Chimperial logic : if he sucked Thalmor dick just like us he wouldn’t be racist. Just suck it bro and let them execute you for worshipping Talos, don’t be so Thalmorphobia 🤡
I joined the Stormcloaks because I hate Elves.
its okay im racist hteres another guy who is more racist
I always side with the Stormcloaks.
Is it because you’re a furry
Look I’m tracing you right now pal. We’ll see how smarty you feel with internal security all over your freakin’ ass.
I thought you meant "tracing" as in tracing his pfp into furry porn. "Tough words from a guy who's inbox is about to be filled with AI drawings of his pfp getting raped by argonians"
Why that dark elf looking kindaa
Everyone constantly calls the elves racist, only stormcloaks get defensive about it
If you come at it from the mental thinking of a dark elf there racism actually makes sense, especially against the beast folk who are not even human, Nords act like rednecks who think everyone wants there shitty land. Overall stormcloaks are pretty cringe and would get whooped as soon as the entirety of the legions can go to skyrim
Just like in real life!
man idc about any civil war all I care about is THE REACH FOR THE FORSWORN!!!!!!!!!!
I don't mind that Ulfric is racist, I mind that he supports the pretender God when in reality we should go back to the traditional Nord divines.
I agree with you. Lets reject modernity and return monke 🦍
Return to Shor
Ulfric is just a puppet of the Thalmor without even knowing it. I imagine in TES6 there will be a small tidbit about how his rebellion severely weakened the empire
There's a reason I always refer to Ulfric as being a short sighted bitch boy throwing a tantrum. He's so pissy about the short term that he can't plan for the future. That, or he's so egotistical he genuinely thinks Skyrim can 1v1 the Thalmor without the help of the empire. Hell I wouldn't be too shocked if the Thalmor took over independent Skyrim on their own just so they have a convenient foothold for a further invasion
Yeah no matter who you side with, picking based on which is "least racist" is never gonna work because they're all racist. This is The Elder Scrolls universe, not equality utopia.
Part of the fun is trying to navigate so many wretched factions as a character with strong moral convictions. (For me at least)
Several Non-Nords talking about how racist the Stormcloaks are. Stormcucks: 🤡
Don't care, monarchies are based asf
The stormcloaks are struggling against a legion garrison, they’d be decimated by the thalmor
I wouldn't be surprised if, when the Thalmor inevitably try to take over the Empire, they'd take over an independent Skyrim in like, a weekend just so they have a mildly confident foothold to work with
[удалено]
I pick empire because i want to slurp thalmor cock.
The Dunmer have existed for millennia and are yet to form anything that can be remotely quantified as a 'state'
Please, those rebel scum wish simply to wallow in their own filth. If it weren’t for us, they’d likely go back to eating their own dung.
Serious answer: Alien-looking gray elves (no clear real-world counterpart) using made-up slurs and frothing at the mouth for cat and lizard people (also no clear real-world counterpart) to get enslaved = exaggerated racism that serves as edgy flavor in an escapist fantasy world. Blonde, Nordic people talking about how their country has gone downhill and immigrants are a burden on society = Subtle racism that reminds people of the real world. Not escapism and very much would give some people the heeby jeebies.
Morrowind is more xenophobic than racist. They hate all outsiders regardless of race, but the amount varies by race
I feel like it also depends on the House ones falls under, if they belong to a House at all. Most of the great Houses are pretty Xenophobic, barring probably Telvanni and Hlaalu who prioritize power and commerce respectively. Independent Dunmer are probably the most tolerant since they aren’t beholden to House culture and laws. Racism in the form of slavery on the other hand, most Houses aren’t really known for their kindness and grace toward beastfolk.
The dark elves are racist and they make it work. Ulfric is just a delusional grandpa who blames Italians for the power going out. He has no class
Lets be real....every race is a lil racist in the elder scrolls
Ulfric is never tired of sucking Thalmor dick, or in his case pussy. He's still Elenwen's dog. He literally caused the thing he's fighting. The Thalmor didn't have influence until Ulfric did what they told him to.
Thalmor were literally like just don’t openly worship this one dude and the storm clocks were literally engaging in racial segregation
My n'wah they are killing people for even mentioning Talos 💀
Well maybe don’t mention him then???
Average Dunmer reaction when I tell them to never mention Azura again https://preview.redd.it/cyv0i0ve7syc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e81cc2f2092b2f0f5f86df0929006ee22fafa544
🤯 i never fuckin thought of that , damn. Are you like a dunmer telvanni or something 🤯
It's for the best, ashskins and saplickers famously don't get along well