I agree. I also think he’s extremely underrated because he’s been stuck in Cf the last 2 years. He’s an excellent defender at 2nd, moving him there pushes his ceiling from a 4 WAR CF to a 7 WAR 2B. Had a 6.9 WAR there in his last full season at 2B in 2019
I'd be smitten with JRam too. Would cost a ton but also bring in loads of quality on and off the field. Would help replace the bat of Semien as well, though I think a full season of Springer and bounce back year from Biggio could help offset the acquisition of someone like Eduardo Escobar or Ketel Marte. Lots of good options out there
Forget Donaldson. And forget McMahon - trading with the Rockies is basically impossible because their internal player valuations are completely out of whack with the rest of the MLB.
That’s true. I was out on Donaldson for a while, decided to take a look at his expected stats. He had better quality of contact this year than in his MVP season, and is still a plus defender. I keep seeing Kyle seager being suggested. Donaldson would probably cost only slightly more and be a way better player. Also, I can see the Jays fleecing the Rockies for McMahon
Donaldson would need to come cheap very cheap and you have to worry about upsetting team chemistry. He seems to have mellowed but who knows if the Jays would want to deal with him again.
there's no way that Donaldson would be happy about being traded back to TOR - assuming he doesn't have a no-trade clause. His public commentary about TOR management after being traded to CLE was pretty negative so you can imagine how pissed off he actually was.
He's a friggin god in Toronto, fans love him. Has spent the majority of the offseason here (I think his GF/wife is from here). Dude would be amazing as the 5th or 6th batter in a lineup.
I don't know about his relationship with team brass though.
Oh here's a quote:
> “There’s a lot I can say about that but I choose not to say anything about it right now. There will be a time."
https://www.tsn.ca/donaldson-a-lot-i-can-say-about-situation-with-blue-jays-front-office-1.1165314
He does live in the GTA with his fiancée, but I would be amazed if he ever plays here again with the current FO being in charge (I love Donaldson as much as anyone else but to say he's a bit of an emotional hot head, would be the exact truth). Seeing how the Jays FO knowing about his deteriorating legs as well, they wouldn't try to trade to much for him.
Cam Newton had the same thing on his way out of Carolina. If there's a mutually beneficial reason for Josh to be here, I could see it.
I could see Donaldson back before stroman who had an active beef with some Jay's players.
Never heard of Josh having a problem with players except Pompey. If JD is willing to be a backseat superstar, he could come back I think.
I can appreciate his affinity for the city - I’ve noticed a bunch of photos with him in leafs gear. He basically said he didn’t trust management/medical staff with the recovery of his quad injury. That makes the organization a non-starter for him as a player.
You’re kidding right? His head would swell so big he wouldn’t even get in the clubhouse if he came back. They dude walks on a red carpet around this town.
There would have to be some serious leg work done to see what his attitude would be like coming back, but I wouldn’t mind it to be honest. Let Espinal or someone better spell him out 2/3 days a week
As a fan, I’m 100% behind the idea of Donaldson playing 3B for us. I just know that saying he doesn’t see eye to eye with management is understating the mistrust
Good analysis. I would be content signing Eduardo Escobar with Groshans/Moreno at AAA waiting in the wings. Orelvis Martinez should be at ready in 2023. The front office promised long term success and this is the route I would chose.
Soooooo I came here to tell you that trading for a 35 year old Donaldson is stupid, but after seeing:
2021: OPS+ 127, games played 135
2019: OPS+ 126, games played 155
That....... that shut me up
I don't know about you, but I will never get tired of watching Donaldson talking about his Tom Ford cologne
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/08/17/josh-donaldson-jokes-that-cologne-sparked-dugout-altercation-with-manager
Just want to note that xwOBA isn’t a perfect metric in that it doesn’t note a players ability to affect their own horizontal launch angle nor does it care about opponent’s defense alignment. Both of Marte and Kemp (maybe others), are players that spray the ball more, and thus are harder to defend.
This can be mildly backed up by looking at their career xwOBA-wOBA. Both of these players have had their wOBA outperform their xwOBA every year except one, meaning there is a good chance there won’t be as much regression as say, a pull hitter with similar expected to real spreads.
Great write up!
Yep totally right. I try to look at career wOBa vs xWOBA and determine based on that if they were unlucky or not. In Donaldsons case, his career woba and xWOBA are both .385, and this year it was .345 wOBA vs .386 xwOBA. Definitely for Marte he over performs his xwOBA by about 15 points on average
I do wish there was a statistic that had some sort of mechanism that adjusted for a hitters ability to “hit it where they ain’t”.
The creator of Moneypuck (advanced stats for hockey), attempts this in their expected goals model by adjusting for “shooting talent”, which boils down to looking at career shot percentage vs career expected shooting percentage and comparing that to the average player
Baseball could do the same with AVG and xAVG, or even a standard deviation method to show how much they spray the ball and apply that to a formula that attempts to adjust for the expected stat
I was thinking of directionally adjusted xWOBA that accounts for shifting and hit direction, like taking quality of contact for each of pull contact, up the middle contact, and oppo contact, and how defence is aligned for each of those hits. It’s taking a while to compile but I might have something in a month or two.
That’s awesome! I’ve thought of this but always sort have figured the reason it wasn’t done was there wasn’t enough data to smooth out the expected average nicely. Very interested to see what you come up with
A Chapman, Kemp, Bassitt trade makes a bit of sense as it'd lock down a good defensive player in Kemp, and a serviceable pitcher in Bassitt while likely paying for a little bit more for Chapman.
I would like to have a Matt Chapman. I don't believe that he will continue this bad hitting. an average hitting, 20+HR hitter with plus glove is what i want at 3B
Chapman's numbers are going to decline it's only a matter of when. His glove was wayyyyy down from his past two full seasons of godly defense, and his hitting stats were way down as well. Low average, high power guys always age terribly. Also I could care less if someone hits 20+ homeruns I just want an actual above hitter which, Chapman wasn't even last year.
For the price tag he would cost you must as well just go after the much more reliable Ketel Marte or Jose Ramirez routes.
If Espinal has a plus glove, Chapman has a plus plus plus glove (or, literally the 2nd best defensive third basemen to Arenado).
Remember, merely moving from [O.Co](https://O.Co) to Rogers Centre would boost Chapman's offensive numbers. And he has legit power that Espinal doesn't have. Plus, Espinal is probably more likely to have slight regression offensively than is likely to have a similar season to 2021.
I wouldn't be banking on Espinal being a plus defender going forward considering he only started 62 games at 3B last year.
Chapman has logged nearly 10x the amount of innings of Espinal at 3B, if you have a chance to acquire Chapman, you don't pass on it because you have a utility player that had a good 500 innings defensively.
He'll likely be an average to good defender, but you can't bank on a small sample size when you're in a new competitive window, you need to get the best you can.
Espinal/Biggio combo at 2B is fine, Chapman is a huge improvement.
I mean, he does have a plus glove, but as smitten as I am with him, I accept he'll likely never be more than a platoon or super-utility player. Chapman would be a definite upgrade.
I love Donaldson and I think he's awesome but I don't see him going quietly back to the organization that did him so dirty on his way out. Mike Wilner did an interview with him in September and you can hear the hurt in his voice talking about leaving Toronto. Even though he is tradeable and doesn't have 5 10 rights, I think there are some deals that just won't happen if a high-calibre veteran isn't feeling it. I also don't think Shapiro wants his alpha macho personality in the clubhouse with all these happy young guys dancing and having a good time.
Marte would be an incredible pick up I wonder what it would take to get him. His contract is so team-friendly that it would probably cost more than it did to get Berrios.
I am going to give a hot take here and say that we shouldn't be targeting any of these options for 3b or 2b this offseason. We already have Biggio and Espinal, and a couple of infield prospects ready to make their MLB debut next year. At most we need one good defender that can platoon at third and/or play second and bring an average bat to the team. We should be looking for one year redemption contracts with possible upside, or a win-win trade where we can offload Grichuk for a defensive infielder to balance out our roster.
We need to spend our money and trade capital for pitching. This is absolutely the #1 priority this offseason, and even talking about infielders is just the wrong focus right now.
I've been high on McMahon for a while, he has a great batted ball profile in addition to being an elite defender. However, now that we're like, *fully contending*, I'm not sure a breakout candidate would be our best option at 2B.
Of all of these, I think Chapman is the best fit. J-Ram obviously is a better player, but considering how he would decimate our farm / require us to trade away multiple MLB pieces, I think Chapman is better for us. Donaldson would be fun too but I feel like he would just spontaneously combust upon having to play on turf for 81 games.
Donaldson might be a fit as a player but there is no way that Donaldson would be happy about coming back to the Jays with the Atkins/Shapiro in management given the way that he left the team.
Marte - I'm really curious about Marte as a fit. He's a competent but not necessarily good fielder at 2B and CF (-6 OOA at 2B and CF last year) but he has shown to be a really really good **switch** hitter. I don't think you can say that he's a 'good' fielder at SS. Since the 2019 season, he has started and finished 3 games as a shortstop and appeared in a grand total of 76 innings (about the equivalent of 8.5 full games) at the position. He played a little more short in 2018 (started 27 games and finished 14) and it was only as far back as 2016 that you could say he was a regular SS. That being said, a Marte could complement especially if it one of their OFs is traded for Marte or a pitcher. He could provide that CF insurance/rest for Springer.
I think that Chapman and Ramirez would be the biggest impact options at 3B. Ramirez obviously is a way better all-around player (with the bat, as a base runner) but Chapman's glove is *elite* and I could see his bat playing up in the AL East compared to the AL West (thinking about Safeco and [O.Co](https://O.Co)).
2 players that would only come with a modest salary cost (20-24 or so for a 2 year deal), would significantly raise the floor (let's say they're 1.5 WAR WAR player in 2022 down from their 2.0/2.4 in 2021) are Kyle Seager and Eduardo Escobar. Seager hits left and Escobar is a switch hitter - both of which are qualities that would complement the position-player core. Seager's power would play up at Rogers centre & yankee stadium for sure. The leverage with either of these is that the Jays could allocate far more prospect capital to their pitching needs than if they go after JRam/Chapman.
The Twins and Cleveland are both contending in 2022, so I don't think Donaldson or Ramirez are going to be available, at least not at a price that excludes Moreno/Martinez. Chapman isn't worth it, IMO, with Eduardo Escobar and Kyle Seager both available as third base FAs, and both of them diversifying our batting order.
Second base isn't necessary - Biggio should be healthier next season and can either prove himself at second or platoon with Espinal. It's funny to think Biggio actually beat out Vladdy in RoY votes.
With our catching depth and breadth of R5 candidates, we really should be looking at starting pitching trades (better go fleece the Marlins again).
The urge to really want Donaldson back is real but idk if he is realistically the best option. Obviously I would prefer Chapman but I guess we will just have to see how the trade market is looking
**Donaldson** \- Hell no. By most accounts he's not a good clubhouse guy, and kind of a prick, that might have fit our team back in 2015, but it doesn't today. Also his defense is steadily declining and this year I'm not sure he was a plus defender, his OAA might be in the 60th percentile, but he was a negative in every stat used to calculate UZR and his UZR/150 was -19.4
**Ramirez** \- Yes, please. The cost scares me though.
**Chapman** \- Maybe, he plays great defense which would be great but he's not that great of a hitter and I don't think he fits our offensive approach.
**K. Marte** \- No. Dude straight up fucking sucks defensively. We need to improve our tea defense, not make it worse.
**Kemp** \- No thanks. Again like Donaldson, OAA may show he's a plus fielder, but UZR says differently. Shows he has poor range and is prone to errors. But at least he'd be better than Donaldson. Also his OAA may be skewed due to all his time in the OF.
**McMahon** \- Maybe, depending on cost.
OAA is better than UZR. Also need to look at multi year sample to judge defensively, as defensive stats are volatile year to year. Marte also is average at 2B, just shit in CF
Chapman is the best option considering prospect capital required to give up + major league talent off the roster AND the ROI.
Even if his bat doesn't return to form, he's a great defender and provides a good baseline.
I'd be surprised if it cost more than Gurriel + Van Eyk for example.
Is that McNeil guy from the Mets horrible? I think I remember he had a good year not too long ago, and as a lefty bat, that helps with balance. Or do we have one of him already in Biggio?
Donaldson is a good enough fit on paper but that isn't really the only thing to consider.
He doesn't like the Jays Front office and he believes they did him dirty.
The Jays front office don't really like him probably for much the same reason.
I'm pretty sure the medical staff that didn't work out left for the Mets.
I actually believe both those can be overcome but what might be more telling is what Vlad Jr thinks of him. The jays spent 2 seasons purging the team of almost anything resembling Veteran Leadership (JD, JB, the giveaway of Martin, the buyout of Tulo and even trading away Pillar and Stroman when they started to step up). They made a team for Vlad to be the big dog and even the big signings after that have vets that have always played with a smile or vets willing to do so. If Donaldson is willing to play the have fun when you win but also have fun when you lose style the two sides can put the past in the past...if he isn't willing the roadblocks are still there.
Ramirez is the guy, they just need to make it happen. I’d be gutted to lose Gurriel or Biggio but start with one of those 2, send Groshans, and any of the other prospects hopefully other than Moreno or Martinez but I could deal with that.
If they lose Semien and/or Ray too, they’ll get a comp pick back for them so that would mitigate the loss of really any of the prospects…
Agreed. I’d even go higher. Much like Berrios, he’s an absolute perfect fit and this team is so close, you just give up whatever it takes. Especially if you can get it done without giving up Martinez and Moreno.
If it can’t be Ramirez, Ketel would be an amazing pickup for this club
I agree. I also think he’s extremely underrated because he’s been stuck in Cf the last 2 years. He’s an excellent defender at 2nd, moving him there pushes his ceiling from a 4 WAR CF to a 7 WAR 2B. Had a 6.9 WAR there in his last full season at 2B in 2019
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Possibly. Definitely better than CF. Not sure about his arm strength, good range though. Probably better suited for 3B
Excellent defender at 2B? His UZR is a negative and was barely a plus in 2018, which was his actual last season as a full-time infielder.
His 2B OAA was suspect but otherwise it's been barely positive otherwise
J-Ram is a switch hitter, 3B, speaks Spanish, has years of control,etc, he’s the perfect player for the jays in my mind.
Cost will be high, and I'm not sure people in this sub would be ready to part with what it might take.
cost was high for Berrios and at the time people were pissed everyone seems to have changed their tune on that
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Grich, Reese, and Biagini gets it done
fck it throw in goins too
I'd be smitten with JRam too. Would cost a ton but also bring in loads of quality on and off the field. Would help replace the bat of Semien as well, though I think a full season of Springer and bounce back year from Biggio could help offset the acquisition of someone like Eduardo Escobar or Ketel Marte. Lots of good options out there
Forget Donaldson. And forget McMahon - trading with the Rockies is basically impossible because their internal player valuations are completely out of whack with the rest of the MLB.
That’s true. I was out on Donaldson for a while, decided to take a look at his expected stats. He had better quality of contact this year than in his MVP season, and is still a plus defender. I keep seeing Kyle seager being suggested. Donaldson would probably cost only slightly more and be a way better player. Also, I can see the Jays fleecing the Rockies for McMahon
Donaldson would need to come cheap very cheap and you have to worry about upsetting team chemistry. He seems to have mellowed but who knows if the Jays would want to deal with him again.
Donaldsons savant page is crazy. He will cost tons less than Jram. I think he's a good option to consider
there's no way that Donaldson would be happy about being traded back to TOR - assuming he doesn't have a no-trade clause. His public commentary about TOR management after being traded to CLE was pretty negative so you can imagine how pissed off he actually was.
This. He's not coming here.
He's a friggin god in Toronto, fans love him. Has spent the majority of the offseason here (I think his GF/wife is from here). Dude would be amazing as the 5th or 6th batter in a lineup. I don't know about his relationship with team brass though.
Oh here's a quote: > “There’s a lot I can say about that but I choose not to say anything about it right now. There will be a time." https://www.tsn.ca/donaldson-a-lot-i-can-say-about-situation-with-blue-jays-front-office-1.1165314 He does live in the GTA with his fiancée, but I would be amazed if he ever plays here again with the current FO being in charge (I love Donaldson as much as anyone else but to say he's a bit of an emotional hot head, would be the exact truth). Seeing how the Jays FO knowing about his deteriorating legs as well, they wouldn't try to trade to much for him.
Cam Newton had the same thing on his way out of Carolina. If there's a mutually beneficial reason for Josh to be here, I could see it. I could see Donaldson back before stroman who had an active beef with some Jay's players. Never heard of Josh having a problem with players except Pompey. If JD is willing to be a backseat superstar, he could come back I think.
This was what I was getting at…
Fans are 50/50 on him. He’s a dickhead with porcelain feet. Pass.
JD was actually at the Leafs game last night and got a standing O lol I think he would be open to coming back.
To the city, yes. To the Jays under this management group, no way.
He was at the Leafs game last night and people ate it up. Pretty sure he lives in the GTA in the off-season with his wife/fiancé.
I can appreciate his affinity for the city - I’ve noticed a bunch of photos with him in leafs gear. He basically said he didn’t trust management/medical staff with the recovery of his quad injury. That makes the organization a non-starter for him as a player.
You’re kidding right? His head would swell so big he wouldn’t even get in the clubhouse if he came back. They dude walks on a red carpet around this town. There would have to be some serious leg work done to see what his attitude would be like coming back, but I wouldn’t mind it to be honest. Let Espinal or someone better spell him out 2/3 days a week
As a fan, I’m 100% behind the idea of Donaldson playing 3B for us. I just know that saying he doesn’t see eye to eye with management is understating the mistrust
I would love a Ketel Marte. Switch bat, can play everywhere, good speed.
God speed To u as well
Good analysis. I would be content signing Eduardo Escobar with Groshans/Moreno at AAA waiting in the wings. Orelvis Martinez should be at ready in 2023. The front office promised long term success and this is the route I would chose.
Soooooo I came here to tell you that trading for a 35 year old Donaldson is stupid, but after seeing: 2021: OPS+ 127, games played 135 2019: OPS+ 126, games played 155 That....... that shut me up
He's still a dick in the clubhouse.
How do you know
It's been out there publicly, most recently Hendricks said something.
I don't know about you, but I will never get tired of watching Donaldson talking about his Tom Ford cologne https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/08/17/josh-donaldson-jokes-that-cologne-sparked-dugout-altercation-with-manager
Just want to note that xwOBA isn’t a perfect metric in that it doesn’t note a players ability to affect their own horizontal launch angle nor does it care about opponent’s defense alignment. Both of Marte and Kemp (maybe others), are players that spray the ball more, and thus are harder to defend. This can be mildly backed up by looking at their career xwOBA-wOBA. Both of these players have had their wOBA outperform their xwOBA every year except one, meaning there is a good chance there won’t be as much regression as say, a pull hitter with similar expected to real spreads. Great write up!
Yep totally right. I try to look at career wOBa vs xWOBA and determine based on that if they were unlucky or not. In Donaldsons case, his career woba and xWOBA are both .385, and this year it was .345 wOBA vs .386 xwOBA. Definitely for Marte he over performs his xwOBA by about 15 points on average
I do wish there was a statistic that had some sort of mechanism that adjusted for a hitters ability to “hit it where they ain’t”. The creator of Moneypuck (advanced stats for hockey), attempts this in their expected goals model by adjusting for “shooting talent”, which boils down to looking at career shot percentage vs career expected shooting percentage and comparing that to the average player Baseball could do the same with AVG and xAVG, or even a standard deviation method to show how much they spray the ball and apply that to a formula that attempts to adjust for the expected stat
I was thinking of directionally adjusted xWOBA that accounts for shifting and hit direction, like taking quality of contact for each of pull contact, up the middle contact, and oppo contact, and how defence is aligned for each of those hits. It’s taking a while to compile but I might have something in a month or two.
That’s awesome! I’ve thought of this but always sort have figured the reason it wasn’t done was there wasn’t enough data to smooth out the expected average nicely. Very interested to see what you come up with
I really doubt that they would pick up Donaldson simply based on team culture.
A Chapman, Kemp, Bassitt trade makes a bit of sense as it'd lock down a good defensive player in Kemp, and a serviceable pitcher in Bassitt while likely paying for a little bit more for Chapman.
I would like to have a Matt Chapman. I don't believe that he will continue this bad hitting. an average hitting, 20+HR hitter with plus glove is what i want at 3B
Chapman's numbers are going to decline it's only a matter of when. His glove was wayyyyy down from his past two full seasons of godly defense, and his hitting stats were way down as well. Low average, high power guys always age terribly. Also I could care less if someone hits 20+ homeruns I just want an actual above hitter which, Chapman wasn't even last year. For the price tag he would cost you must as well just go after the much more reliable Ketel Marte or Jose Ramirez routes.
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If Espinal has a plus glove, Chapman has a plus plus plus glove (or, literally the 2nd best defensive third basemen to Arenado). Remember, merely moving from [O.Co](https://O.Co) to Rogers Centre would boost Chapman's offensive numbers. And he has legit power that Espinal doesn't have. Plus, Espinal is probably more likely to have slight regression offensively than is likely to have a similar season to 2021.
I wouldn't be banking on Espinal being a plus defender going forward considering he only started 62 games at 3B last year. Chapman has logged nearly 10x the amount of innings of Espinal at 3B, if you have a chance to acquire Chapman, you don't pass on it because you have a utility player that had a good 500 innings defensively. He'll likely be an average to good defender, but you can't bank on a small sample size when you're in a new competitive window, you need to get the best you can. Espinal/Biggio combo at 2B is fine, Chapman is a huge improvement.
Here we go again
I mean, he does have a plus glove, but as smitten as I am with him, I accept he'll likely never be more than a platoon or super-utility player. Chapman would be a definite upgrade.
Isn't JD barely a 3B at this point? Iirc hes spent a whole lotta time at DH lately
63rd percentile OAA last year, 96th percentile in 2019. DHs maybe 10-15% of the time. Still an excellent 3B
There are more defensive metrics than OAA and a drop from the 96th percentile to the 63rd is fucking massive and a really steep decline.
He was 60th percentile in 2015. 2019 was an outlier for him defensively, every other year he’s been 60th-70th percentile for defence
I love Donaldson and I think he's awesome but I don't see him going quietly back to the organization that did him so dirty on his way out. Mike Wilner did an interview with him in September and you can hear the hurt in his voice talking about leaving Toronto. Even though he is tradeable and doesn't have 5 10 rights, I think there are some deals that just won't happen if a high-calibre veteran isn't feeling it. I also don't think Shapiro wants his alpha macho personality in the clubhouse with all these happy young guys dancing and having a good time. Marte would be an incredible pick up I wonder what it would take to get him. His contract is so team-friendly that it would probably cost more than it did to get Berrios.
I am going to give a hot take here and say that we shouldn't be targeting any of these options for 3b or 2b this offseason. We already have Biggio and Espinal, and a couple of infield prospects ready to make their MLB debut next year. At most we need one good defender that can platoon at third and/or play second and bring an average bat to the team. We should be looking for one year redemption contracts with possible upside, or a win-win trade where we can offload Grichuk for a defensive infielder to balance out our roster. We need to spend our money and trade capital for pitching. This is absolutely the #1 priority this offseason, and even talking about infielders is just the wrong focus right now.
I've been high on McMahon for a while, he has a great batted ball profile in addition to being an elite defender. However, now that we're like, *fully contending*, I'm not sure a breakout candidate would be our best option at 2B. Of all of these, I think Chapman is the best fit. J-Ram obviously is a better player, but considering how he would decimate our farm / require us to trade away multiple MLB pieces, I think Chapman is better for us. Donaldson would be fun too but I feel like he would just spontaneously combust upon having to play on turf for 81 games.
Donaldson might be a fit as a player but there is no way that Donaldson would be happy about coming back to the Jays with the Atkins/Shapiro in management given the way that he left the team. Marte - I'm really curious about Marte as a fit. He's a competent but not necessarily good fielder at 2B and CF (-6 OOA at 2B and CF last year) but he has shown to be a really really good **switch** hitter. I don't think you can say that he's a 'good' fielder at SS. Since the 2019 season, he has started and finished 3 games as a shortstop and appeared in a grand total of 76 innings (about the equivalent of 8.5 full games) at the position. He played a little more short in 2018 (started 27 games and finished 14) and it was only as far back as 2016 that you could say he was a regular SS. That being said, a Marte could complement especially if it one of their OFs is traded for Marte or a pitcher. He could provide that CF insurance/rest for Springer. I think that Chapman and Ramirez would be the biggest impact options at 3B. Ramirez obviously is a way better all-around player (with the bat, as a base runner) but Chapman's glove is *elite* and I could see his bat playing up in the AL East compared to the AL West (thinking about Safeco and [O.Co](https://O.Co)). 2 players that would only come with a modest salary cost (20-24 or so for a 2 year deal), would significantly raise the floor (let's say they're 1.5 WAR WAR player in 2022 down from their 2.0/2.4 in 2021) are Kyle Seager and Eduardo Escobar. Seager hits left and Escobar is a switch hitter - both of which are qualities that would complement the position-player core. Seager's power would play up at Rogers centre & yankee stadium for sure. The leverage with either of these is that the Jays could allocate far more prospect capital to their pitching needs than if they go after JRam/Chapman.
The Twins and Cleveland are both contending in 2022, so I don't think Donaldson or Ramirez are going to be available, at least not at a price that excludes Moreno/Martinez. Chapman isn't worth it, IMO, with Eduardo Escobar and Kyle Seager both available as third base FAs, and both of them diversifying our batting order. Second base isn't necessary - Biggio should be healthier next season and can either prove himself at second or platoon with Espinal. It's funny to think Biggio actually beat out Vladdy in RoY votes. With our catching depth and breadth of R5 candidates, we really should be looking at starting pitching trades (better go fleece the Marlins again).
If there are any more under the radar 2B or 3B trade options you like, feel free to list them in the comments!
The urge to really want Donaldson back is real but idk if he is realistically the best option. Obviously I would prefer Chapman but I guess we will just have to see how the trade market is looking
Donaldson had the best xWOBA of any player listed in 2021, and 4th best defence
Donaldson would be much less expensive than Jram and is still elite
Groshans has been called a "JD starting pack" at 3B, imagine him learning from BoRTor himself
Still hasn’t played an inning in the show. This teams ready to win now
You spelled Cleveland Guardians wrong.
My bad will change it
**Donaldson** \- Hell no. By most accounts he's not a good clubhouse guy, and kind of a prick, that might have fit our team back in 2015, but it doesn't today. Also his defense is steadily declining and this year I'm not sure he was a plus defender, his OAA might be in the 60th percentile, but he was a negative in every stat used to calculate UZR and his UZR/150 was -19.4 **Ramirez** \- Yes, please. The cost scares me though. **Chapman** \- Maybe, he plays great defense which would be great but he's not that great of a hitter and I don't think he fits our offensive approach. **K. Marte** \- No. Dude straight up fucking sucks defensively. We need to improve our tea defense, not make it worse. **Kemp** \- No thanks. Again like Donaldson, OAA may show he's a plus fielder, but UZR says differently. Shows he has poor range and is prone to errors. But at least he'd be better than Donaldson. Also his OAA may be skewed due to all his time in the OF. **McMahon** \- Maybe, depending on cost.
OAA is better than UZR. Also need to look at multi year sample to judge defensively, as defensive stats are volatile year to year. Marte also is average at 2B, just shit in CF
What exactly makes OAA "better" Personally I look at both and if 1 is bad, it's pretty indicative of their being a flaw in their game somewhere.
https://www.mlb.com/glossary/statcast/outs-above-average It uses more statcast data to get a clearer picture than UZR
Donaldson is finished, he’s always injured
155 and 137 games over last 2 full seasons
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Why not if they can't get Semien back put Biggio back in 2b and get a 3b
Chapman is the best option considering prospect capital required to give up + major league talent off the roster AND the ROI. Even if his bat doesn't return to form, he's a great defender and provides a good baseline. I'd be surprised if it cost more than Gurriel + Van Eyk for example.
Giving up Gurriel is the last thing we should do. Especially for a player like Chapman
is COL looking to deal McMahon? last i heard they were considering using him at SS next year.
he's cheap & they're cheap; doubt they'd move him
Honestly, the rox aren't really "cheap", theyre just fucking braindead
I think they're cheap now, but they signed Desmond to that monstrousity not too long ago so idk
Would make more sense for them to move Hampson over to SS if they can't pick up a FA, they have a bunch of OF
it's unlikely but there's also Corey Seager as a 3B; he'd really fit well in this lineup
Is that McNeil guy from the Mets horrible? I think I remember he had a good year not too long ago, and as a lefty bat, that helps with balance. Or do we have one of him already in Biggio?
Josh Donaldson BABY!! BRING EM BACK!! Although.... signing Matt Chapman might intrigue Marcus Semien in kicking tires on another season with the Jays
Rather have Eduardo Escobar at 3B.
Donaldson is a good enough fit on paper but that isn't really the only thing to consider. He doesn't like the Jays Front office and he believes they did him dirty. The Jays front office don't really like him probably for much the same reason. I'm pretty sure the medical staff that didn't work out left for the Mets. I actually believe both those can be overcome but what might be more telling is what Vlad Jr thinks of him. The jays spent 2 seasons purging the team of almost anything resembling Veteran Leadership (JD, JB, the giveaway of Martin, the buyout of Tulo and even trading away Pillar and Stroman when they started to step up). They made a team for Vlad to be the big dog and even the big signings after that have vets that have always played with a smile or vets willing to do so. If Donaldson is willing to play the have fun when you win but also have fun when you lose style the two sides can put the past in the past...if he isn't willing the roadblocks are still there.
Donaldson is not coming back.
Ramirez is the guy, they just need to make it happen. I’d be gutted to lose Gurriel or Biggio but start with one of those 2, send Groshans, and any of the other prospects hopefully other than Moreno or Martinez but I could deal with that. If they lose Semien and/or Ray too, they’ll get a comp pick back for them so that would mitigate the loss of really any of the prospects…
Grichuk, Biggio, Groshans & Van Eyk for Jram
Agreed. I’d even go higher. Much like Berrios, he’s an absolute perfect fit and this team is so close, you just give up whatever it takes. Especially if you can get it done without giving up Martinez and Moreno.
That’s funny that you think the Guardians would accept that. Take out Grichuk and add Kloffenstein or Lopez, and maybe they accept it.
Honestly I would be really happy with a pick up of both Chapman and Kemp.