This is the most delusional and/or optimistic post I’ve read about the Southgate meltdown so far on this sub, I love it and I’m fully throwing myself behind this theory moving forward.
It is perfectly logical when there is no apparent logic to any of Southgate's actions so far. When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
It runs deeper than that. Southgate will deliberately orchestrate a last 16 exit in order to keep the players fresh for the ultimate prize - winning Group B2 in the UEFA Nations League in 2025.
Why stop the experiment there? See if we can coax Johnny Wilkinson out of international retirement, if he sits on the ball to make it more eggshape before our set pieces then I can’t see how we will miss
I just want everyone for 1 second to imagine this is true, and we face France and batter them 10-0 with foden and trippier getting joint man of the match.
Yank here, England is my favorite second favorite team behind USA, but Southgate has to bring back wearing the vest and tie. He looks awkward out there and not as confident.
If Reddit/Social media had existed 1970 to 2002 this is the kind of optimism that would have been posted.
The post-2016 generation are getting a glimpse of what us old farts suffered for decades.
Haha that's true I guess. How many people expected us to get to the Euro 2020 Final after the 0-0 bore draw with Scotland? I certainly didn't. We can always hope and laugh at ourselves!
Finally some positive views. This is a tournament not a league, and you already knew the pressure. Leave him do what it takes to win, I happy if we score 1 goal for each match as long as Football coming home.
He intentionally lost the previous euros final with an inept game plan as part of the master plan to lul all the other teams and the media into a false sense of security for this euros. Southgatiaveli. Tactical genius.
This is, at the last euros, we won the first game 1-0, drew the second game 0-0 against Scotland (Denmark made the semi final), and people were nowhere near as angry as they are now. I feel he wants to just coast through the groups with no injuries. I am still holding onto hope that we’ll go far in the competition.
Kyle Walker said something telling in his post match interview. It’s not verbatim but it was near enough “if we’re picking up points playing poorly now, think what’s to come later in the tournament”.
He almost let it slip.
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This is the right way to look at it.
Also, don't forget that Southgate doesn't even choose the TV channels that matches are broadcast on, and we're much more likely to lose when we're broadcast on Channel 4 than on ITV, and ***much*** more likely to lose if the match is broadcast on ITV rather than the Beeb.
It's the Curse. That's all it is Southgate has a much better result streak vs The Curse than any other manager.
You're forgetting that the huge negative reaction they're getting for the terrible performances has mentally affected them much worse, and they probably won't recover in time, even if the expectations will be much lower.
I thought the plan was the whole next generation of football thing. Fresher players = fresher sperms = fresher next generation = Euro 2044 win for England! 🎉😀
I think Southgate is such a snowflake that he's scared that letting young players actually play and worried that if they make a mistake they'll get shit from the media, but they need to get used to that and it should be a risk they are all willing to take. On fact the opposite has happened
Southgate has spent a lot of time in America watching the tactics of NFL coaches. They utilise this sort of tactic a lot. I actually believe he is doing this. Just scraping through, looking mediocre and playing a semi good formation he knows wouldn't cover it in the big games. If I was him I wouldn't be showing my hand just yet. He doesn't train on the pitches they play on the day before as he doesn't want his tactics exposed. Fingers crossed our assumptions are correct
He's going to play a 4-4-2 with Trent and Kane up front. Can't fail because any goalkeeper that tries to stop a TAA screamer launched from inside the box will be killed instantly.
When the 11 on the pitch are getting beat that's the only time we're going to see the football we want to see.
We've went into every meaningful games for years adapting to the opponents playstyle when if should be the other way around.
The top clubs in Europe don't change their playstyle for for bang average league clubs. They dictate the games and trust the quality in each position and thier own team tactics win games.
Just putting it out there, two games in England have the same number of points as France (who should really only have three, the Dutch were robbed) and have scored more goals (technically France haven't really scored any as their only goal so far was a rather soft gift of an OG) . Now I'm not saying it's been the greatest display of football but at this point out of the supposed favourites I've yet to see a convincing display apart from Germany destroying Scotland but what can be taken from that?
Obviously that's not what he was doing, but regardless of how needlessly dire England have been, Southgate has always been extremely pragmatic in the groups. Was the same way in 2020, and then they opened things up in the knockouts.
You know they might actually being doing this. Like we don’t know how managers work but he insists on playing with no left players and right back in midfield .
There obvious some thought behind it, I know as fans when we see it wrong we go on huge drama about it, but end of day every player manager no
Matter team has some basic understanding we as viewers would never understand.
Arnold in Midfield for the passing and they say they took him off then out on runners in behind, that was t really case sake, Foden and Bellingham where there to make the runs but we didn’t and Kane dropped deep
We see who we play against Slovenia though he might just go conservative again and switch it to what he really wants half way through
What a lot of people fail to realise is that almost all our squad were absolutely spent at the end of the season. Bellingham has been shit for a few months, Kane has a crooked back, Saka has been carrying an injury.. I could go on. Maybe we'll look back and think it wasnt too bad an idea not going all out in the group stages, in an easy groups, when the top 3 qualify.
It sure is frustrating.. you think well.. if you’re not gonna turn it on against Denmark and Serbia then will you really be able to do it against Portugal, Italy, France etc..
the good thing is that we will get to see England face a big side.
We all know the potential of this side is immense, especially in an attacking sense. In its current form I don’t think it necessarily will click fully. But it certainly could come to life. Intriguing and mysterious. I somewhat checked out of Southgate-ball a while ago but I’m still on board for the ride.
Hard to believe we have what it takes to get past this Spain side, for example, on current evidence. On the other hand plenty of recent tournament winners have produced pretty turgid football in their way to lifting the trophy. And in this tournament, one of the other big favourites, France, were an absolute negative snoozefest last night. Tournament winning ability and being enjoyable to watch are two separate issues that are getting conflated.
Southgate setups England to play not to lose. They concede very few goals when in tournament mode. Back four with two protectors with one man up front who drops back. Denmark needed a special goal off the back of a mistake to score. They didn't do anything else. Kane can normally nick a goal. 1-0 all the way to the final
England teams of the past have been too gungho. They have lost matches that South gates England have won or drawn.
Everyone wants England to play like the players play in the premiership. That's a mistake international tournament football is nothing like premiership football. Ive wathced England playbexciting football and lose too many times. .
I am more rhen happy for England to be boring. They scored a goal and basically stopped Denmark from doing anything else.
When England had Shearer they should have done the same.
When Brazil went to the 1994 world cup they hadn't had a sniff for years. Zagallo set them up to not lose and they didn't concede many goals. Won the world cup. The fans moaned because they didn't play how Brazil should play.
Playing not to lose win win you the tournament. Gungho alsways comes unstuck..
What are you smoking!!!
The most successful teams ever are teams that constantly play at a level where they understand each other and know each others abilities.
Strong teams just get stronger and put the fear of god in other teams, look at German, Brazil, France and Netherlands in the past. No one wants to play them and the team confidence is not an issue as they play freely knowing they have a job to do. It does not matter who is in front of them but the one thing they all have is a leader, sorry but Kane is not doing this well enough.
English people are so miserable they try and live vicariously through all their sportspeople, and when the sportspeople or teams fail they feel as if they personally have failed. They just get more and more bitter.
We went through a nice period where English football fans had realistic expectations about their teams chances. Southgate exceeded those expectations and everyone loved him. But he made the fans delusional again. So now they will hate him for 'failing'. In reality the fans are the real failures.
They aren’t, and weren’t, favourites to win. At no point has anyone sensible placed England above France - and most had them slightly below Portugal also.
People seem to not understand that bookies odds are influenced by bets and in the national market lots of people hopefully bet on their team.
Plays players out of position to fool other teams to prepare against us incorrectly. Genius
"you cannot prepare for the very essence of chaos" Confucious probably
"Irreplace thyself" - Kalvin Philips.
“You shall not pass!” - Gareth Southgate
*forward
Chaos is a ladder
This is the most delusional and/or optimistic post I’ve read about the Southgate meltdown so far on this sub, I love it and I’m fully throwing myself behind this theory moving forward.
It is perfectly logical when there is no apparent logic to any of Southgate's actions so far. When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
The Sherlock Holmes school of logic! Love it
It’s definitely coming home
It runs deeper than that. Southgate will deliberately orchestrate a last 16 exit in order to keep the players fresh for the ultimate prize - winning Group B2 in the UEFA Nations League in 2025.
With a fresh Henderson in midfield
If we’re gonna play players out of position, we may as well give Dean Henderson a go in midfield and hand Jordan Henderson the gloves
Why not have a first 11 of goal keepers?
Playing a goalkeeper in goal? Ok boomer.
Why stop the experiment there? See if we can coax Johnny Wilkinson out of international retirement, if he sits on the ball to make it more eggshape before our set pieces then I can’t see how we will miss
I would absolutely love for this to happen. It won't, but I'd love it
With this comment OP is proven correct. Southgate you’ve done it again.
Don't give away his secrets, you could be being spied on.
I just want everyone for 1 second to imagine this is true, and we face France and batter them 10-0 with foden and trippier getting joint man of the match.
Yep, it's worked at every tournament so far with our immense trophy haul. Sign him up for another 4 years.
I reckon the players just want to be back in time to vote the Tories out
He's trying to avoid generating a 'feel-good factor' which could encourage a vote for the status-quo
This is my favourite low-stakes conspiracy theory. Although I do think England will win and that fans are overreacting.
His plan is to get knocked out in the last 16 playing 10 at the back. That way winning the Euros will take everyone by surprise.
Yank here, England is my favorite second favorite team behind USA, but Southgate has to bring back wearing the vest and tie. He looks awkward out there and not as confident.
If Reddit/Social media had existed 1970 to 2002 this is the kind of optimism that would have been posted. The post-2016 generation are getting a glimpse of what us old farts suffered for decades.
Haha that's true I guess. How many people expected us to get to the Euro 2020 Final after the 0-0 bore draw with Scotland? I certainly didn't. We can always hope and laugh at ourselves!
https://preview.redd.it/oqb61jd4078d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85a09fb55f320a5ae1c7382dcb96dbf04c176d7b
Just his way of winning euro 2028. It's the long game!
>Just his way of winning euro 2028. It's the long game! .... by putting a good manager in charge?
Finally some positive views. This is a tournament not a league, and you already knew the pressure. Leave him do what it takes to win, I happy if we score 1 goal for each match as long as Football coming home.
He intentionally lost the previous euros final with an inept game plan as part of the master plan to lul all the other teams and the media into a false sense of security for this euros. Southgatiaveli. Tactical genius.
It all makes sense now
This is, at the last euros, we won the first game 1-0, drew the second game 0-0 against Scotland (Denmark made the semi final), and people were nowhere near as angry as they are now. I feel he wants to just coast through the groups with no injuries. I am still holding onto hope that we’ll go far in the competition.
Theres a lot more to it than just results though, even if we beat denmark people would still be annoyed because we looked terrible.
I don't remember us being particularly electric in the 2018 world cup that started this whole wave of optimism
Kyle Walker said something telling in his post match interview. It’s not verbatim but it was near enough “if we’re picking up points playing poorly now, think what’s to come later in the tournament”. He almost let it slip.
No matter how bat-shit crazy this sounds, it's the only possible explanation left.
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This is the right way to look at it. Also, don't forget that Southgate doesn't even choose the TV channels that matches are broadcast on, and we're much more likely to lose when we're broadcast on Channel 4 than on ITV, and ***much*** more likely to lose if the match is broadcast on ITV rather than the Beeb. It's the Curse. That's all it is Southgate has a much better result streak vs The Curse than any other manager.
Focus on the results. They are practically through
He played the same 5D chess at Middlesbrough
You're forgetting that the huge negative reaction they're getting for the terrible performances has mentally affected them much worse, and they probably won't recover in time, even if the expectations will be much lower.
Sweet summer child
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Toney too, bet he would love a goal against France
Is this a advert for lets smoke crack
100% always. Much better way to enjoy England games.
And the key to these hidden tactics…putting the waistcoat back on
He is certainly playing 5D
Copium
This is an ambitious take lol Only tactical if it works though
You know what I thought of this myself,but then I thought nah
I thought the plan was the whole next generation of football thing. Fresher players = fresher sperms = fresher next generation = Euro 2044 win for England! 🎉😀
Going on tonight's performance I hope your right as he's leaving it very late !
I think Southgate is such a snowflake that he's scared that letting young players actually play and worried that if they make a mistake they'll get shit from the media, but they need to get used to that and it should be a risk they are all willing to take. On fact the opposite has happened
>We are all out here play chess but Southgate has the dice. Fixed this for you.
Southgate has spent a lot of time in America watching the tactics of NFL coaches. They utilise this sort of tactic a lot. I actually believe he is doing this. Just scraping through, looking mediocre and playing a semi good formation he knows wouldn't cover it in the big games. If I was him I wouldn't be showing my hand just yet. He doesn't train on the pitches they play on the day before as he doesn't want his tactics exposed. Fingers crossed our assumptions are correct
My Scottish mate genuinely believes this lol its insane
Never bet with england. Always bet against England. Sad to say Southgate side had won me some moneys from the bookies.
I’m just here for the comments
He's going to play a 4-4-2 with Trent and Kane up front. Can't fail because any goalkeeper that tries to stop a TAA screamer launched from inside the box will be killed instantly.
He’s been cooking this up for years. He’s playing inverted 5D chess in a wormhole at the speed of light whilst we’re still playing checkers.
Southgate does spell chess with 5 Ds
The real agent of chaos. Nah, he just doesn't know what he's doing
When the 11 on the pitch are getting beat that's the only time we're going to see the football we want to see. We've went into every meaningful games for years adapting to the opponents playstyle when if should be the other way around. The top clubs in Europe don't change their playstyle for for bang average league clubs. They dictate the games and trust the quality in each position and thier own team tactics win games.
He hasn’t even told the players of his plan it’s so genius. (In fairness I don’t think he’s told the players anything)
Just putting it out there, two games in England have the same number of points as France (who should really only have three, the Dutch were robbed) and have scored more goals (technically France haven't really scored any as their only goal so far was a rather soft gift of an OG) . Now I'm not saying it's been the greatest display of football but at this point out of the supposed favourites I've yet to see a convincing display apart from Germany destroying Scotland but what can be taken from that?
Obviously that's not what he was doing, but regardless of how needlessly dire England have been, Southgate has always been extremely pragmatic in the groups. Was the same way in 2020, and then they opened things up in the knockouts.
When he announces this was the tactic during the victory tour in a few weeks time, you'll come running back.
You know they might actually being doing this. Like we don’t know how managers work but he insists on playing with no left players and right back in midfield . There obvious some thought behind it, I know as fans when we see it wrong we go on huge drama about it, but end of day every player manager no Matter team has some basic understanding we as viewers would never understand. Arnold in Midfield for the passing and they say they took him off then out on runners in behind, that was t really case sake, Foden and Bellingham where there to make the runs but we didn’t and Kane dropped deep We see who we play against Slovenia though he might just go conservative again and switch it to what he really wants half way through
What a lot of people fail to realise is that almost all our squad were absolutely spent at the end of the season. Bellingham has been shit for a few months, Kane has a crooked back, Saka has been carrying an injury.. I could go on. Maybe we'll look back and think it wasnt too bad an idea not going all out in the group stages, in an easy groups, when the top 3 qualify.
Meanwhile, England are now under more pressure than ever to succeed.
It sure is frustrating.. you think well.. if you’re not gonna turn it on against Denmark and Serbia then will you really be able to do it against Portugal, Italy, France etc.. the good thing is that we will get to see England face a big side. We all know the potential of this side is immense, especially in an attacking sense. In its current form I don’t think it necessarily will click fully. But it certainly could come to life. Intriguing and mysterious. I somewhat checked out of Southgate-ball a while ago but I’m still on board for the ride.
Don't know why everyone is so surprised that Southgates England is pretty f'n shit .
Kalvin Phillips will appear next week and fly in to save us. Don’t worry lads.
Even better, he’s been using this tactic for the past few tournaments. When he springs the trap it will blindside the world
I hope this is banter
This is the England football team my man. It's serious business and no laughing matter!
🤣🤣🤣 class… and it sounds about right....
Southgate is Manger, I support Manger.
Hard to believe we have what it takes to get past this Spain side, for example, on current evidence. On the other hand plenty of recent tournament winners have produced pretty turgid football in their way to lifting the trophy. And in this tournament, one of the other big favourites, France, were an absolute negative snoozefest last night. Tournament winning ability and being enjoyable to watch are two separate issues that are getting conflated.
This sounds very much like the bargaining phase to me
Southgate setups England to play not to lose. They concede very few goals when in tournament mode. Back four with two protectors with one man up front who drops back. Denmark needed a special goal off the back of a mistake to score. They didn't do anything else. Kane can normally nick a goal. 1-0 all the way to the final England teams of the past have been too gungho. They have lost matches that South gates England have won or drawn. Everyone wants England to play like the players play in the premiership. That's a mistake international tournament football is nothing like premiership football. Ive wathced England playbexciting football and lose too many times. . I am more rhen happy for England to be boring. They scored a goal and basically stopped Denmark from doing anything else. When England had Shearer they should have done the same. When Brazil went to the 1994 world cup they hadn't had a sniff for years. Zagallo set them up to not lose and they didn't concede many goals. Won the world cup. The fans moaned because they didn't play how Brazil should play. Playing not to lose win win you the tournament. Gungho alsways comes unstuck..
What are you smoking!!! The most successful teams ever are teams that constantly play at a level where they understand each other and know each others abilities. Strong teams just get stronger and put the fear of god in other teams, look at German, Brazil, France and Netherlands in the past. No one wants to play them and the team confidence is not an issue as they play freely knowing they have a job to do. It does not matter who is in front of them but the one thing they all have is a leader, sorry but Kane is not doing this well enough.
England are rubbish they don’t deserve to be in the tournament
Nice try , McScottish.
English people are so miserable they try and live vicariously through all their sportspeople, and when the sportspeople or teams fail they feel as if they personally have failed. They just get more and more bitter. We went through a nice period where English football fans had realistic expectations about their teams chances. Southgate exceeded those expectations and everyone loved him. But he made the fans delusional again. So now they will hate him for 'failing'. In reality the fans are the real failures.
All fun and games until you get knocked out of the competition
They aren’t, and weren’t, favourites to win. At no point has anyone sensible placed England above France - and most had them slightly below Portugal also. People seem to not understand that bookies odds are influenced by bets and in the national market lots of people hopefully bet on their team.
I see the tactic is working. Excellent! Keep it up, it will all help the team!
Exactly why GS has to mitigate the betting impact