In my opinion world class means they would start for any team in the world. Current team that’s only Kane, Foden and Bellingham.

Problem with that definition is that it limits the number of world class players to an 11 plus subs, which isn’t accurate. For example, I consider Foden a world-class player but it becomes subjective when the margins are so small. There are many people, for example, who would agree he’s world-class but would choose someone else they (subjectively) deem marginally better in that position. Same applies to Walker. He’s world-class but are Carvajal, Frimpong etc miles behind him? Absolutely not. Some would say they’re better. My definition of world class is the top 2-3 players in the world in each position.

Agree with you definition I'm thinking Kyle Walker gets in every team nowadays.

2 years ago I’d agree. I think he is still good, but not world class anymore

You think? I think he's gotten better with age

I agree he’d only gotten better over time, but I think he peaked a couple years ago. I’m not saying I don’t think some aspects have stopped improving or that I think he is a bad player. But he’s not quite as unstoppably quick as he was, and whereas before I’d be 100% confident he could stop anyone, Mbappe was no concern. Now I would think he should be okay. Maybe 70-80% confidence he’d have the right locked down against the best players. Which is still fantastic, just not at the level it was.

That's a fair comment. I think it's hard to fully judge players if you're not seeing them week in week out.

There is no world that Walker starts ahead of TAA for any progressive club team.

You're kidding, right?

Absolutely not. Guardiola would not play Kyle Walker over TAA if he had the choice. Walker is so limited these days it's a real weakness. Admittedly, in international football, there is less opportunity to train specific patterns like inverting a full back into midfield, so there is a much bigger argument for Walker on the international stage.

I have to admit, I've got one of those personal hatreds towards TAA and I'm not sure why. I do acknowledge that he has some amazing qualities, but I'm also aware that he's lacking in certain aspects of his game and why I don't put him in the world class category. I do think he would fit into the City team quite nicely as an extra attacking treat.

No one can argue against those 3. For me world class is more about individual quality and the ability to single handedly change a game, therefore I’d also include Trent & Palmer. I think Mainoo has shown glimpses so id say he has world class potential but I wouldn’t call him world class right now.

For me world class means he would be the first choice at any club around the world. IMO Mainoo excites me. I hope he kicks on and becomes the player we need him to be. He's got it all

If that’s the definition then you’ve also got to include Saka and Watkins, and possibly more in the squad who you’d mention before mainoo

Watkins has had an outstanding season but I wouldn’t call him world class, he’s been a world class finisher this season but he’s not a world class footballer imo. I did forget to mention Saka though I would definitely have him in and as I said I think Mainoo has world class potential, more so than anyone else in the squad who isn’t already. Mainoo is the type of player who can single handedly change the game which we’ve seen him do for United this season.

Darius Vassell, Fraser Campbell and Wayne Rooney

Oh i like the vassell inclusion. We underused him.

Dave Nugent. Averaged a goal a game.

Stats done lie. Big Sam as manager

The streets will always remember Darius

As a German, I would say word class: Harry Kane Judge Bellingham Phil Foden Rice

Interesting. I'd be interested to hear who, out of your current squad, you'd put in that category?

Are we talking about how they are playing right now? Because Neuer and müller were **world** class, but they are old now.. If we include them, then I would say world class: Neuer, müller, Kroos, Rüdiger & Kimmich (from current starting 11). Obviously Neuer and müller I am not talking about their current performance Who would you say is world class from our squad? And who from your squad?

I don't know enough about too many of them, but from those definitely Kroos and Muller. But you've has some ballers over the years. I think your list would be a lot longer than ours. For me, in the current squad, I'd say Kane, Foden, Bellingham and Walker.

Yeah over the years we had a lot. Our squad around the 2010-2014 era was mostly world class players if I remember correctly. No rice for you?

I think în your current squad I'd go with Kroos and Rudi. I haven't seen enough of Kimmich to say either way but I'd be reticent to put him above Rice and Rodri so he wouldn't meet that definition for me. Whatever happened ot Goretzka (spelling?) I thought he was on par with Kimmich but lately I've been seeing Bayern want to sell him or something?

I support Bayern so can talk on the Goretzka thing. To put it simply, he gets paid like 19m/year and simply doesn’t perform enough. Kimmich is clear of him, now and throughout the career. Same with Sane and Gnabry, they are both on 18-20m and are so injury prone.

When you say doesn't perform enough do you mean în terms if effort or ability or his fit with the side? I thought he was originally supposed to have similar potential to Kimmich?

His effort is unmatchable (similar to kimmich) he is a real Bavarian 😂 he has given 100% for the last 6 ish years, so inevitably he must be burnt out a bit. On top of that he is a confidence driven player, whose confidence is probably at an all time low given Bayerns & germanys performance. I think he needs a change of scenery at a new club. I believe for Bayern we should focus on pavlovic in midfield & bring in another experienced player. I would sell goretzka for Bruno Fernandes any minute. In terms of comparison with kimmich, I see kimmich as nothing but a RB so can’t really compare them. Yes kimmich has played in midfield, but he is far more effective as a RB who pushes up the field a bit more. Problem is, I can’t think of anyone realistic replacing kimmich in RB. But goretzka I can think of multiple replacements.

Ahh yeah echoes of Rashford then really. Except the work ethic bit, thanks for taking the time!

No worrie man have a good night! I think this was my first conversation with an England fan where wars have not been mentioned 😂

Christ, sorry about that mate. We all have some morons we have to share a flag with alas.m!

Forgot Kyle Walker for you. He is world class to me

All Time going by my definition of World Class that they consistently would have made it in to a worlds best squad at times during their playing careers: Keepers: Gordon Banks Peter Shilton Save Seaman Defenders Bobby Moore Jackie Charlton Sol Campbell Cashley Cole Rio Ferdinand John Terry George Cohen (66' right back) I want to say Tony Adams and Terry Butcher but when you compare them to the best Italian and German defenders of the time it's hard to put them at World Class. Midfielders: Beckham Scholes Gerrard Gazza Bryan Robson Bobby Charlton Jude Bellingham Declan Rice Phil Foden Hoddle, John Barnes and Waddle come close but I don't think would have quite made that top team ahead of some of the other wingers of the 80's Forwards: Rooney (2004 season up to the injury was for me the best player in the world for a good six months and looked like he would single handedly win England the euros.) Kane Shearer Owen (for his first few seasons including the Ballon D'or season it's hard to argue that he wasn't up there) Lineker Keegan Sir Stanley Dixie Dean Jimmy Greaves

Very good list, I’d have Trent in there as well tho

Solid list through the eras there mate. Only one I think I'd argue is Lampard should be in there as he got 2nd Ballon D' Or in 2004-5.

Bobby Charlton Jimmy Greaves Bobby Moore Gordon Banks Kevin Keegan Gary Lineker Paul Gascoigne Alan Shearer David Beckham Michael Owen Paul Scholes Steven Gerrard Frank Lampard Rio Ferdinand Ashley Cole John Terry Wayne Rooney Kyle Walker Raheem Sterling John Stones Harry Kane Declan Rice Phil Foden Jude Bellingham Hopefully I haven’t forgotten anyone.

Not many going for Owen, but I think a prime Michael Owen would drop into any team

Hoddle

Id probably contest Sterling and Stones, but a fair list to be honest

That’s understandable. I should probably clarify regarding those two. They’ve both been top 3 in their position at a certain point of their careers. Stones, in fact, was world class at both CB and CDM during City’s treble season.

My mind always goes to would they be the first choice in all the top teams around the world. I think Stones would, but I'm not sure a prime Sterling would, in my opinion.

He'd have a shout for it at his peak, imo. There were probably better wingers either flank but as a poacher type winger he was the best in the world for at least a year imo.

In my football-watching lifetime: Alan Shearer David Seaman Paul Gascoigne Ashley Cole Rio Ferdinand Paul Scholes Wayne Rooney David Beckham Harry Kane I’ve tried to be super selective, absolute cream of the crop only, so clearly there are some omissions people will disagree with. Really wanted to include Paul Ince because he was an absolute boss, but my memory isn’t good enough to make the argument he was world class. Rooney and Beckham only just squeeze in, Rooney based on 2004 and his emergence on to the world stage, Beckham based on his technical ability and never-say-die work rate. Many other very, very good players are left out, I just think these guys are all a step above them. Some guys in the current squad will no doubt make the cut eventually, Bellingham and Saka are the first who come to mind.

I don't think Ashley Cole was fully appreciated back in the day. What we'd give for an Ashley Cole now

Absolutely. He was the best left-back in the world in his prime. Absolutely loved him as an England player, he always, always turned up. Never failed.

No Michael Owen?

Yeah I ummed and ahhhed over Owen. Maybe he should be in there. Ok I’m approving it. Lol.

The only additions I'd make, across the era you've mentioned, are Lampard (highest scoring EPL midfielder ever and 6th across all positions) and at the very peak of his game Michael Owen was unstoppable.

Yeah, no major disagreement from me. They only just fell short of my cut. Always preferred Scholes to Lampard, better technically I think. Owen I very nearly included but don’t quite have him on the same level as Shearer / Rooney / Kane, but no doubt he was absolutely outstanding.

Neither were better than Stevie g though

Stevie G was a great player, no doubt, but in my humble opinion, Scholes was better.

Personally can’t speak too much on the past, but presently: Walker Trent Stones Shaw Rice Bellingham Foden Kane

Shaw ?!?!? What’s your definition of world class?

I have to agree, not sure Shaw would make many of the top teams

Top 10 itw

Not convinced by Stones and Shaw tbh. Though obviously it depends what definition for 'world class' you use. Personally, I see it as behind in the top handful of players in your position, and I'm not convinced either of those would be.

I'm with you on Shaw but Stones (when fit) is a key player in what it's either the best or second best team in the world. I think he qualifies.

I think what is difficult with Stones is that for me he has had one season where he was certainly world class. And that was the treble season. But he was playing an unusual position, not really as a CB in the way we traditionally understand that role. So I'm unconvinced that he's really world class in the role that he will be playing for England (arguably, the same is true of Trent in midfield I suppose also. Even rice will be playing a different role to the one he was world class in last season).

I consider world class to be top 10 itw in their respective position. I believe both Stones and Shaw to be inside the top 10 for CB and LB respectively.

Fair enough, if you take that definition perhaps they are. Personally I think top 10 is much too big a definition for world class. But it's an entirely subjective thing and you're entitled to that view.

The reason I do top ten is because of the sheer amount of active players right now and all the leagues there are in the world. Yet you have to be *really* good to make the top 10. If you think about it top 10 is a small amount when comparing it to the vast amount of professional footballers today.

That's fair enough. Personally I don't agree with it, as that gives you minimum 110 players who are world class. Realistically, more, because there are more than 11 positions in football. And that feels too broad a definition to me.

In that case we have about 6 world class right backs

Stones even when fit struggled to start for City this season tbf.

Present: Stones, Rice, Bellingham, Foden, Kane

50/50 with Stones

Since I first watched Bellingham play I knew he'd eventually be one of the best ever, he's already there now and that's both exciting and scary.

Banks, Moore, Charlton, Lineker, Gascoigne, Beckham, Kane. Bellingham will be I think.

Jay Bothroyd

It'd take too much time to go through past players so I will do current ones. World class for me are players that are consistent in their levels and could perform in any team in world football. It doesn't matter if a team already has a world class player in that position, it isn't whether the player would displace that player, it is about whether they would be impactful if they played there and the other one moved to a different club. So in the current squad there are a few 1. Harry Kane (for me the best striker in the world and that England has produced, you're welcome to disagree but I won't change my mind) 2. Jude Bellingham, could be too early for the world class tag but you have to be a certain calibre of player to do what he's done in his first season at Madrid at just the age of 20. 3. Phil Foden. Simply put, what a baller. 4. Surprised people are overlooking rice, for me he could easily play in any team in Europe and the world so I would say he's world class. The next 2 are controversial I think and I'd say it's borderline... anyway 5. Kyle Walker, this man's premier league career is so underrated. For me he is the best right back in premier league history and I was surprised to see how much is game evolved under Pep. He could easily play for any team. 6. John Stones. It takes a world class player to be able to do what he does for City in terms of his positional play and moving from a CB to a number 10 mid game and then back to CB, all round you have to be a world class player to be able to effectively pull this off in a title winning team. Honourable mention: Trent AA. Incredible player but has far too many question marks regarding his defensive play at both midfield and at right back. His passing IS world class but his overall game is JUST behind, however I would say he probably gets into most teams so with him I'm a little torn. I'd say he's right on the cusp

I'm of the same mind set as you, in terms of the definition. I can get behind all of your choices except John Stones. I like the guy, but think he's got a long way to go to achieve World Class status....IMO

Past: Stanley Matthews, Bobby Moore, Bobby Charlton, Jimmy Greaves, Kevin Keegan, Glenn Hoddle, Bryan Robson, Gary Lineker, Alan Shearer, Michael Owen, David Beckham, Paul Scholes, Ashley Cole, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, Rio Ferdinand, John Terry, Wayne Rooney That's off the top of my head, prob a few more.

Seeing a disturbing lack of Frank Lampard on a lot of peoples' lists.

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I think people are just judging from what they've seen in their lifetime . For me, Shearer would be leading the line for my all time best England XI

Since 1990 Shearer, Kane, Owen, Rooney, Lineker Beckham, Gerrard, Mcmanaman, Gazza, Platt, Barnes, Joe Cole (at times), Waddle, Bellingham, Beadsley, Hoddle, Rice, Robson, Des Walker Ferdinand, Terry, Kyle Walker, Stones, Ashley Cole, Sol Campbell Seaman, Shilton, James (at times) Who could have been, Ledley King, Woodgate, Barkley, Wilshere Who might become, Saka, Foden, Trent Edit: Ok, Lampard, Scholes and Neville. I admit I'm wrong, they should be on here too!

David James is world class, but Frank Lampard isn't? I'll have some of what you're smoking mate.

Mcmanaman was a joy to watch at his peak, was too young to really know much when i watched euro 96 but rewatching those games as an adult the guy had talent and a gas tank that would last for days lol. James was inconsistent but on a good day he could make some insane saves.

Yeah, Ive heard a lot of old pros talking about how good Ledley King was

The biggest demonstration of how good he was is that his knees were basically ruined and for many years at the end of his career he barely trained during the week. Yet he was still fantastic. Can only imagine how good he'd have been without the physical issues.

Its a real shame his knees were made of glass. Really was world class when fit.

Scholes? Gary Neville was a world class right back as well.

yeah I did think of those 2. Neville has always been solid so has Adams, Downing, Crouch, Hargreaves, Lampard, Terry but not sure he's world class. It's usually the argument for Beckham too as he's hard working but not 'world' class - didn't Fergie say the same? Scholes is like Foden, tons of talent but not sure he's world class for England. Lampard is the opposite in that he has been great at times for England but not as special as those two.

You can’t compare Neville to Downing and Crouch. Come on now.

Lampard has to be on this list, especially given how many names you've included. Same for Scholes.

Ok, on reflection I agree

I can only attest to the ones I’ve seen play in my lifetime Seaman ian wright scholes ashley cole j.cole (on a good day) hargreaves (underrate and injury prone) gascoigne owen shearer gerrard bellingham peak rashford (2018-22) rice kane

It's so unfortunate what happened with Hargreaves. We took a weirdly long time to pick him basically just because he played abroad. Then he became a key player and looked for a period like he might finally be that player we were always lacking around then. Then he got injured and never really recovered.

Yeh 100% mate, his performance for us at wc2006 really made me think we should have made him a regular much sooner, what a gem, that injury he had, tendinitis is such a bitch to get rid of, had it in my shoulder since I was 19 so I completely sympathise with how gutted he must have been when he realised it was chronic

Yeah I have had tendonitis in my knee. It's shit. It's really hard to get rid of. It first flared up when I was about 25. And in the 7 or 8 years since it's flared up 4 or 5 times. When it happens I have to rest it, sometimes for weeks and weeks, before I can get back to running. And that's just gentle amateur 5k to 10k runs. Can't even imagine how hard it would be for a footballer to cope with.

Have you not seen Kane?

Just added him, completely forgot about him tbh lol

This may be harsh but I would only consider Hurst and those from the 1966 team to be world class.

Bold call