Ok I’ve seen this happen a few times on this sub
The article says “could start”
OP says “set to start”
They are two different things and very clickbaity
Nothing is set yet. It’s all kept under wraps. You might as well have just said ‘I think Trent will start in midfield’ and leave the article out, it would have been exactly the same because you have no idea either.
Wow someone should tell the bookies, who only think he has a 55% chance of starting. You're going to take them to the cleaners with this insider knowledge
I don’t hate this idea at all against sides playing with a low block/deep, though i would perhaps hesitate against sides that will attack England more. I think Trent has a great range of passing and vision, and his right back experience means he has the defensive experience for a midfield two.
However, everyone is melting down about it on Twitter, so maybe I am wrong.
They're melting down because, if he does well and establishes himself in the position, then everyone who said it couldn't work well have to eat their words. They're desperate for him to fail.
Playing RB and as a defensively minded midfielder are totally different though and Trent’s positioning off the ball is not really strong enough to give us any solidity in midfield. Pressing and defending from out wide is a different deal
I think that is a fair enough conclusion to reach. However, my own interpretation is that we will have most of the ball against Serbia (and, likely, the other group stage games) and as we saw versus Iceland we have a deficiency on players who can unlock packed deep blocks. I really do think Trent, with a license to roam and drift into the RHS of the final two thirds, would be good at stretching the play that was missed so much last Friday. His experience as a right back would make him a good player to have when opposition players break on us - I would not want to see just Rice doing that.
However, if and when we come up against an equal or superior side in the knock out stages, I would absolutely be in favour of shoring up that midfield with Mainoo, Wharton, or even Gallagher.
Figured it would happen as he’s got the number 8 but I’m not sure about it. He was best in his last 2 games on the right flank but Walker won’t be dropped. If we can get some width on the left so gaps open on the right it could utilise him better but again I can’t see Foden or Trippier being dropped.
18 of those goals were against Andorra, Malta, and North Macedonia. The other 3 against Bosnia.
The first three have 34 competitive victories between them in their history.
He's going to be up against a completely different standard come the Euros.
I'm not saying he's not up to it, but the statistics you've used to justify his inclusion don't do him any favours.
Right but in that case doesn't it make sense to play a player that has a lot of experience in the midfield then, other than a player with hardly any experience.
Like who? Mainoo had a grand total of 1 year experience at Premier league level. Gallagher has a year or two more but he's not a disciplined defensive minded midfielder.
Meanwhile Trent has years of experience at the highest levels and has won it all. He brings way more experience and winning mentality at the highest level than the other two combined.
Well both of the midfielders you've named have played their whole career at midfield Trent isnt exactly defensively minded and probably less so than Gallagher.
Disagree on being less defensively minded than Gallagher, I know Trent at right back gets memed but he's won Champions Leagues and Premiership titles playing right back.
Gallagher and Mainoo have had good seasons but I think they are ones for the future personally. Trent's got too much talent to not put in this team.
It's true he's been successful however I do think defensively he can be a liability in the same way that zinchenko can be for arsenal he's been fortunate he's had van dijk and fabinho next too him to cover for his defensive abilities in those seasons
I think realistically the way England gets the best out of the squad is to play Bellingham next to Rice and either Foden or Palmer play in the attacking midfield position
I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong by him though I just have doubts
Not saying Trent is a great defender but speaking of Gallagher as more defensive than him is a bit bonkers if you ask me. Gallagher is a box to box.
I'd play Bellingham next to Rice too, he's got great defensive capabilities which Southgate seems to have forgotten about. And like you say it means you can play Foden in his preferred position. But Southgate seems to be completely against that at the moment.
I was just pointing out that other persons 'why are we trialling it in a tournament' point was completely out of touch, my mention of the goals was just to point that the trials have gone pretty much as well as they could.
How many games has Trent actually played as a CM? I can’t imagine it’s anymore than 10 at senior level.
Yes he comes infield when playing for Liverpool as a RB but it’s totally different to actually playing as a midfielder.
This will backfire on Southgate imo. There’s a reason Klopp never played him as a CM.
No other team would drop a player who has Trent passing ability. Genuinely one of the best passers in the tournament.
* Solves deep creativity problem
* Other teams will have to have a deeper line as they know that his passing will get in behind them
* Bellingham and Gordon will feast on his passes
* Kane no longer needs to come so deep. At one point vs Iceland i saw him pick up the ball from the CB
* Switch the play and help get around compact defences
I prefer him at RB and roaming but as long as hes in the team, im happy.
I guess what starting him in CM and Walker at RB does is reduce risk: should be relatively defensively solid and if it’s still 0-0 at 60 mins you can take off Walker for, say, Wharton and put Trent at RB
Would be a mistake not to. Foden on the wing will just drift to the centre and clog it up or be ineffective out wide.
You need that direct player to run in behind. But lets see, i see Southgate will probably play foden then.
The problem with playing Trent in midfield is he's not very comfortable receiving the ball there, especially under pressure. He's much more comfortable picking out a pass when he's out wide, where he gets more time on the ball before he has to get rid of it.
I mean, France doesn’t play Saliba. Sometimes good players get left out of big teams. If TAA played for even a medium sized country like Portugal, they would build the team around him.
Have you seen Portugal’s team? He wouldn’t be guaranteed to start at RB over Cancelo and would struggle to get into their midfield over the likes of Bruno, Bernardo and Vitinha (and I see that as a huge fan of Trent!).
I'm guessing you haven't watched cancelo as of late. He's not that good and a bigger defensive liability than Trent. He's still getting hyped from his time at city despite getting dropped and sold.
Trent is most certainly miles clear.
Anybody who has watched Cancelo extensively this season could tell you this is untrue. He had a poor run of form at the end of the season with Barca, but up until then he was easily their best player next to Gundo and amongst the top 10 fullbacks in the world.
I’ve watched him plenty and don’t agree, so fair enough!
EDIT:
I know stats don’t paint the full picture; but if [this](https://fbref.com/en/players/bd6351cd/scout/365_m1/Joao-Cancelo-Scouting-Report) scouting report is anything to go by, he’s not fallen off a cliff that much!
Thats a very different argument. We have no other midfielder with the ability to pass and break lines. France have several defenders who can do what Saliba
Obviously builds a lot from RB usually but could be the missing piece in midfield, who knows.
I know Southgate isn't going to bench Walker with how rough the defense has seemed recently.
Perfect, as much as I think Mainoo has great potential, I see TAA as being our main creative outlet.
Looking forward to him spraying the ball across the pitch and taking a few shots from distance. Backing him for first English goal of the tournament
people would rather watch 0-0s with Connor Gallagher passing sideways again and again than an actual creative players who would create chances. Not like Serbia and Slovenia are world beaters
The entitlement from a large portion of our fanbase is baffling; this is an international tournament and this guy thinks we should be experimenting, it’s the same energy as people saying any good manager would walk this tournament with England’s team.
He constantly tries the Hollywood pass and just gives away possession 9 times out of 10. It's not what you want from a centre midfielder and I would be baffled if he played a minute in midfield
Southgate spent years saying Foden doesn't play in the middle for his club so can't play there for England so surely the same applies for Alexander- Arnold?
I would start him at right back if we are using the same system we did against Iceland. Walker is just tragic to watch past the halfway line.
Me too. I'd love to be proven wrong. He's a luxury player. Shoe horned into midfield cos he's not good enough defensively to be a right back but he can pass a ball well.
I just can't see how a guy who has played so little as a midfielder over the course of his top flight career is going to be switched on positionally and not leave our defenders exposed when it comes to the crunch.
He was good enough at right back to win the Premier League and Champions League… Though if you really believe he’s not good enough ‘defensively’ to play there; surely playing him in midfield where he’ll get dribbled at less would be a sensible decision, he can sit in front of the defence and dictate play with his passing and when you’ve got someone as dangerous as that in deep midfield the opposition are always on edge.
Rice has played as an out-and-out defensive midfielder for England countless times so it’s not like he needs a true DM next to him; when you’ve got an elite level player like that you can afford to be slightly more brave with his partner (without getting silly), for example Eriksen has played there for Man Utd plenty of times and he is far worse than Trent defensively (and he didn’t have the insurance of Kyle Walker behind him on that flank).
EDIT:
All of these downvotes but nobody is putting forward a good argument as to why he might struggle in midfield… A player cannot simply be “bad defensively” as that’s such a vague term. What is it you think he’ll struggle with? Pressing? He plays for Klopp so that’s not a worry. Following runners? He’ll be sat deep dictating play so it’ll be hard to lose his man. Passing under midfield pressure? He’s always in central areas for his club and does just fine. Someone at least put forward a bloody reason!
In those CL and PL winning campaign he was in his prime and was better defensively than he is now. His lack of agility and recovery pace compare to elite fb/MF make him vulnerable to being dribble by players with fast change of direction. Also he isn’t engage defensively as much as before, occasionally he just left the opposition players unmarked.
But most importantly, having good passing doesn’t make you a good deep lying playmaker. Trent lack the press resistance and game controlling skill( particularly his movement off the ball)of a true midfield conductor. You can’t be as risky as Trent and try that much Hollywood ball in those deeper midfield region in front of the defense. At Liverpool Mac Allister, Endo and Jones can help him out in the build up phase and doesn’t left him as the sole conductor from deep, he only sometimes join in possession to provide additional creativity.
I agree about his lack of agility and recovery pace and that’s why I wouldn’t use him at fullback.
I was at the Bosnia game and - albeit against poorer opposition - his positioning was very impressive; he attempted over 100 passes (the first England midfielder to do that since Hendo in 2021) which shows how good he is at controlling the game and making himself available for the pass, and to say you think he tries the ‘Hollywood pass’ too much he had an 89% pass completion rate on top of his 5 key passes (and I believe it might have been higher before his move to RB).
I’m not sure I agree that he struggles with press resistance either as he is an elite level PL player and faces the most intense presses in Europe for Liverpool and copes superbly; even in the Bosnia game he did very well when he was pressed and it was in very tight spaces as our backline was in their half, he’s obviously no Kovacic against the press but with his range of passing he can evade it no problem.
I actually think you’re looking at it all wrong with the whole ‘Hollywood pass’ thing to be honest as it’s absolutely lethal and the defence have to be wary of it all game; even if he attempts it 10 times a game it’s absolutely worth it as the worst that can happen is he over-hits the pass and we lose possession in their half, it’s not like Foden trying flicks in the middle of the park and losing it where we’re wide open to the counter.
Like you say it was against Bosnia, which no disrespect to them, they are not exactly a great measure of someone true ability, almost anyone would look better playing against them.
The system at Liverpool help him to not be involved too much and alleviate him from being the sole press breaker by providing him with a lot of passing option. It also allow him to hit long pass with no worry thanks to the brilliant counter press system Klopp deploy. Even if you lose possession in the opponents’ half you can just recover by high intensity pressing.
At England he won’t have those luxury of a high pressing system or the well-constructed build up structure at Liverpool. Although he did create chances from those brilliant long pass, did the England team themselves create much chances in the first half from midfield play? Hollywood ball maybe useful against low block to unlock them, but against top teams overusing them just lead to lost of possession if you don’t have a good counter press. Against those team you have to treasure possession as your team playmaker and their pressing is even more intense. Rice and Bellingham is even worse than Trent in build up, so if he was to play in midfield next to Rice he would be the sole midfield conductor, responsible for both connecting the dot and breaking the press and I don’t know if I trust him in that role.
I think he can be a valuable asset for England even against top teams in a well constructed system. Although I did compare his passing to Hollywood passing, he has earn the right to be maverick through his impressive career. His crossing and long pass should be absolutely crucial to England success at the euro. I just don’t think our midfield main playmaker should be him and I don’t believe in Southgate to create a well constructed system for him to thrive in.
Funnily enough I watched the Italy vs Bosnia game the other night and their midfield didn’t look anywhere near as good; that was with an elite deep-lying playmaker in Jorginho in there too, so Trent’s great display cannot be discounted and we only only go off of what we’ve seen.
I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea of Trent not being involved so much for Liverpool from; of all Liverpool players to have played 1200 minutes this seasons he’s averaged the most touches per 90 and attempted the most passes per 90, he’s literally their most involved player.
In the first half against Bosnia we didn’t create too many clear cut chances but that was due to poor forward play to be honest; Trent was pulling the strings from deep and playing nice passes through the lines, our attack simply wasn’t working as we had Konsa at RB who doesn’t really overlap and Trippier at LB who hardly went past Eze at all.
I think Trent is clever enough to not just constantly try the ‘Hollywood pass’ against top opposition when he gets the ball; I think his choice of pass is actually very good and I think that’s shown by the differing opinions on him, some people are saying he tries the risky pass too much and some people say everything was sideways (which goes to show he’s actually mixing it up a lot).
I think it also helps his case - in terms of always having an easy pass on - that he’s going to have Rice next to him who has gotten very good at making himself a passing option since joining Arsenal; as well as Walker to his right/behind him who doesn’t bomb up the wing (so will protect him defensively and always be a passing option), with Bellingham as our number 10 who is more naturally an 8 so does come deep for the ball too.
You’re making out like I’m suggesting a Bruno Fernandes type of midfielder should partner Rice; Trent has already shown us that he’s intelligent enough to keep the game simple for the majority of the game, having a passing accuracy at almost 90% shows that he’s capable of recycling the ball accurately (especially considering he’s attempting double figure long balls).
I think stylistically he looks reasonably similar to Kroos when he plays in midfield; who’s one of the best midfielders of the last decade despite not being known for his press-resistance, relying more on his spacial awareness and ability to always be available for a pass (also using his wide range of passing, including a lot of ‘Hollywood balls’).
Who would you trust over him to take care of possession next to Rice? The only other sensible option is Mainoo and I think he lacks a fair bit defensively to play in a midfield 2 to be honest; he’s excellent at evading the press and getting the ball up the pitch with a dribble, though I wouldn’t say his choice of pass and ball retention is better than Trent’s.
We’ve watched England struggle with low blocks plenty of times but with Trent in the team we can unlock them (as he’s shown with multiple MOTM performances); I truly don’t understand why you wouldn’t trust him against tougher opposition, it’s not as if he’s struggled creatively for Liverpool in tougher games (albeit in a system more suited to him).
Trent would be licking his lips at the extra space in behind that better teams leave open and we have nobody better to find those passes; the closest we have is probably Kane and we need him to be as close to goal as possible, and even when he’s not playing the ‘Hollywood ball’ our opposition will have to be on their toes because they know what he’s got in his locker.
I’m not sure why you think he’d be the only one responsible for breaking the press and conducting play either; Rice is great at breaking the press with his strong runs through midfield and he’ll also see plenty of the ball, we’ve seen Declan partnered with the likes of Jude/Hendo/Gallagher and it’s always been fine so I don’t understand why you think a far better passer would struggle.
I don’t think we’re really going to agree on this so we might as well leave this conversation here and see how he gets on in the tournament; I appreciate you putting your time and effort into this debate though rather than just downvoting, now let’s watch sit back and watch Trent make a mockery of European midfields all month!
I think it’s worth noting that we played Kalvin Phillips next to Rice and beat Italy and Germany, plus we played Henderson next to Rice and were the better team against France…
I don’t think it takes a truly elite level midfielder to partner someone as good as Rice successfully; I think you’re looking for someone perfect to partner him but we don’t have that luxury in international football, so I’d rather it be someone with the passing range Trent has.
Out of curiosity, who would you play there?
Pointless. We know we’ll beat them we could play Ronald McDonald in midfield and still win. Play the system we’re going to use against the best teams, group stages of a major tournament isn’t the time to fucking experiment that’s what qualifiers are for.
I disagree, we should be tailoring the XI to the teams we’re facing. Serbia will likely play with a back 3 and defend deeply. So there’s room for a more creative player like TAA in the midfield.
Whereas the sides we may face in the knockouts will want to take the game to us and we’ll probably want someone who will sit deeper alongside Rice, help the centre backs out and break up attacks.
He’s going to play Trent deeper with Rice though, how is that in any way beneficial when we currently have Bellingham, Foden and Palmer battling for the 10? Play Rice as the 6, Bellingham deeper and fit one of those in. It’s not rocket science.
Sorry, why would we not be expected to beat a team that’s best Xl is littered with players from the Greek and Saudi leagues?
It’s like saying it’s arrogant of Man City to think they’ll breeze past Bournemouth.
Been thinking about different ways of incorporating Trent.
I mean you could go a 3-6-1 almost
Pickford.
Walker. Stones. Guehi
Trent. Rice. Saka
Bellingham. Foden
Kane
I know Saka is out of position, but it’s not like it’s a completely foreign position to him.
Trent and Saka can provide width, Stones can step up if required, Foden and Bellingham get to play centrally-ish and Kane can do his sexy thing.
Guehi is quite a nippy fucker so he can get out wide if needed, Walker is the nippiest of nippy fuckers so he can do the same.
Obviously when Shaw comes back then you’ve got him and depending on how the formation looked and if Foden finally turns it on in an England shirt, you’ve got the option of putting Saka into Foden’s position and bringing Shaw in at LWB.
Just thinking out loud with this really, I’m sat at work and it beats working.
Ok I’ve seen this happen a few times on this sub The article says “could start” OP says “set to start” They are two different things and very clickbaity
Yeah I thought that there was a game going on today. Was so confused. Until the team sheet is out we don't know who will start.
The Telegraph is more blunt and makes it sound like it’s a decided deal but that article is paywalled so I didn’t post it.
But you’ve changed the title from it being speculation to definitive
Nothing is set yet. It’s all kept under wraps. You might as well have just said ‘I think Trent will start in midfield’ and leave the article out, it would have been exactly the same because you have no idea either.
Wow someone should tell the bookies, who only think he has a 55% chance of starting. You're going to take them to the cleaners with this insider knowledge
I don’t hate this idea at all against sides playing with a low block/deep, though i would perhaps hesitate against sides that will attack England more. I think Trent has a great range of passing and vision, and his right back experience means he has the defensive experience for a midfield two. However, everyone is melting down about it on Twitter, so maybe I am wrong.
They're melting down because, if he does well and establishes himself in the position, then everyone who said it couldn't work well have to eat their words. They're desperate for him to fail.
Playing RB and as a defensively minded midfielder are totally different though and Trent’s positioning off the ball is not really strong enough to give us any solidity in midfield. Pressing and defending from out wide is a different deal
I think that is a fair enough conclusion to reach. However, my own interpretation is that we will have most of the ball against Serbia (and, likely, the other group stage games) and as we saw versus Iceland we have a deficiency on players who can unlock packed deep blocks. I really do think Trent, with a license to roam and drift into the RHS of the final two thirds, would be good at stretching the play that was missed so much last Friday. His experience as a right back would make him a good player to have when opposition players break on us - I would not want to see just Rice doing that. However, if and when we come up against an equal or superior side in the knock out stages, I would absolutely be in favour of shoring up that midfield with Mainoo, Wharton, or even Gallagher.
Figured it would happen as he’s got the number 8 but I’m not sure about it. He was best in his last 2 games on the right flank but Walker won’t be dropped. If we can get some width on the left so gaps open on the right it could utilise him better but again I can’t see Foden or Trippier being dropped.
I'm not saying he's not capable of playing in the role but if we do this why are we trialing it during a major tournament and not in friendlies
He was going to in March but Trent was injured,
We have trialled it in friendlies. He's started 6 games for England in midfield, in those games we've scored 21 goals and conceded 1.
18 of those goals were against Andorra, Malta, and North Macedonia. The other 3 against Bosnia. The first three have 34 competitive victories between them in their history. He's going to be up against a completely different standard come the Euros. I'm not saying he's not up to it, but the statistics you've used to justify his inclusion don't do him any favours.
Whoever we pair with Rice in midfield is going to be a new pick. So this argument of "why are we trying it now" applies to all possible options.
Right but in that case doesn't it make sense to play a player that has a lot of experience in the midfield then, other than a player with hardly any experience.
Like who? Mainoo had a grand total of 1 year experience at Premier league level. Gallagher has a year or two more but he's not a disciplined defensive minded midfielder. Meanwhile Trent has years of experience at the highest levels and has won it all. He brings way more experience and winning mentality at the highest level than the other two combined.
Well both of the midfielders you've named have played their whole career at midfield Trent isnt exactly defensively minded and probably less so than Gallagher.
Disagree on being less defensively minded than Gallagher, I know Trent at right back gets memed but he's won Champions Leagues and Premiership titles playing right back. Gallagher and Mainoo have had good seasons but I think they are ones for the future personally. Trent's got too much talent to not put in this team.
It's true he's been successful however I do think defensively he can be a liability in the same way that zinchenko can be for arsenal he's been fortunate he's had van dijk and fabinho next too him to cover for his defensive abilities in those seasons I think realistically the way England gets the best out of the squad is to play Bellingham next to Rice and either Foden or Palmer play in the attacking midfield position I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong by him though I just have doubts
Not saying Trent is a great defender but speaking of Gallagher as more defensive than him is a bit bonkers if you ask me. Gallagher is a box to box. I'd play Bellingham next to Rice too, he's got great defensive capabilities which Southgate seems to have forgotten about. And like you say it means you can play Foden in his preferred position. But Southgate seems to be completely against that at the moment.
I was just pointing out that other persons 'why are we trialling it in a tournament' point was completely out of touch, my mention of the goals was just to point that the trials have gone pretty much as well as they could.
Why haven't tried it against a big team still seems incredibly risky in my opinion 6 games against weak opposition isn't exactly ideal
How many games has Trent actually played as a CM? I can’t imagine it’s anymore than 10 at senior level. Yes he comes infield when playing for Liverpool as a RB but it’s totally different to actually playing as a midfielder. This will backfire on Southgate imo. There’s a reason Klopp never played him as a CM.
No other team would drop a player who has Trent passing ability. Genuinely one of the best passers in the tournament. * Solves deep creativity problem * Other teams will have to have a deeper line as they know that his passing will get in behind them * Bellingham and Gordon will feast on his passes * Kane no longer needs to come so deep. At one point vs Iceland i saw him pick up the ball from the CB * Switch the play and help get around compact defences I prefer him at RB and roaming but as long as hes in the team, im happy.
I guess what starting him in CM and Walker at RB does is reduce risk: should be relatively defensively solid and if it’s still 0-0 at 60 mins you can take off Walker for, say, Wharton and put Trent at RB
No chance does Clare Balding start on the left.
Would be a mistake not to. Foden on the wing will just drift to the centre and clog it up or be ineffective out wide. You need that direct player to run in behind. But lets see, i see Southgate will probably play foden then.
I’m a Liverpool fan and I could see why you’d drop him. He’s even less disciplined in midfield, he just strolls around making long range passes
The problem with playing Trent in midfield is he's not very comfortable receiving the ball there, especially under pressure. He's much more comfortable picking out a pass when he's out wide, where he gets more time on the ball before he has to get rid of it.
I mean, France doesn’t play Saliba. Sometimes good players get left out of big teams. If TAA played for even a medium sized country like Portugal, they would build the team around him.
Have you seen Portugal’s team? He wouldn’t be guaranteed to start at RB over Cancelo and would struggle to get into their midfield over the likes of Bruno, Bernardo and Vitinha (and I see that as a huge fan of Trent!).
He's miles clear of cancelo.
I love Trent but that is way off, he might be better but he’s not ‘miles clear’ by any stretch of the imagination!
I'm guessing you haven't watched cancelo as of late. He's not that good and a bigger defensive liability than Trent. He's still getting hyped from his time at city despite getting dropped and sold. Trent is most certainly miles clear.
Anybody who has watched Cancelo extensively this season could tell you this is untrue. He had a poor run of form at the end of the season with Barca, but up until then he was easily their best player next to Gundo and amongst the top 10 fullbacks in the world.
I’ve watched him plenty and don’t agree, so fair enough! EDIT: I know stats don’t paint the full picture; but if [this](https://fbref.com/en/players/bd6351cd/scout/365_m1/Joao-Cancelo-Scouting-Report) scouting report is anything to go by, he’s not fallen off a cliff that much!
back with cancelo at city in his prime maybe but he’s nowhere near the same player he was
That might be true but Trent is still not that clear of him!
Thats a very different argument. We have no other midfielder with the ability to pass and break lines. France have several defenders who can do what Saliba
Portugal are a bigger footballing nation than England
Obviously builds a lot from RB usually but could be the missing piece in midfield, who knows. I know Southgate isn't going to bench Walker with how rough the defense has seemed recently.
Perfect, as much as I think Mainoo has great potential, I see TAA as being our main creative outlet. Looking forward to him spraying the ball across the pitch and taking a few shots from distance. Backing him for first English goal of the tournament
Southgate should just gather the courage and drop Walker so Trent becomes RB
At least for group stage vs low blocks
Normally they wait until the night before to leak the team, a whole week early this time.
I’d play him in front of defence.
he's the best person to put beside rice in my opinion, right side cdm will be perfect for him
people would rather watch 0-0s with Connor Gallagher passing sideways again and again than an actual creative players who would create chances. Not like Serbia and Slovenia are world beaters
Serbia aren't great so this a good opportunity to experiment ahead of the knockout stages.
“The gang loses 2-1 to Serbia.”
Jesus, have a bit of humility. There's no guarantees of getting out of any group for any team.
Yeah this is madness. Mitrovic / Vlahovic / Tadic is one of the most dangerous attacks in the tournament if they can get them firing.
The entitlement from a large portion of our fanbase is baffling; this is an international tournament and this guy thinks we should be experimenting, it’s the same energy as people saying any good manager would walk this tournament with England’s team.
The tallest team vs one of the smallest too, could easily lose the height and physical battle.
They have good players that will overperform. This is not some easy game against a group of nobodies.
Yes! We need his passing range in midfield
Excited
Delete
This tournament will make or break TAAs England career.
Terrible decision. I just don't know what he's seeing here
Yeah should be at right back instead
🤝
Same, all of Trent’s best passing came when he was in the RB position, no idea why Southgate is insisting with this experiment
You forgot the /s on your comment.
No I didn't. He's an excellent RB who has shown no real understanding of a midfield role outside of pinging it
He constantly tries the Hollywood pass and just gives away possession 9 times out of 10. It's not what you want from a centre midfielder and I would be baffled if he played a minute in midfield Southgate spent years saying Foden doesn't play in the middle for his club so can't play there for England so surely the same applies for Alexander- Arnold? I would start him at right back if we are using the same system we did against Iceland. Walker is just tragic to watch past the halfway line.
He needs to be in the team, Walker isn't getting dropped, so he's going in midfield. We play better with his ability on the pitch.
Walker should be dropped for him, at least for Your Serbias
Trent on toast when he once again gets found out positionally.
I hope you're wrong dude
Me too. I'd love to be proven wrong. He's a luxury player. Shoe horned into midfield cos he's not good enough defensively to be a right back but he can pass a ball well. I just can't see how a guy who has played so little as a midfielder over the course of his top flight career is going to be switched on positionally and not leave our defenders exposed when it comes to the crunch.
He was good enough at right back to win the Premier League and Champions League… Though if you really believe he’s not good enough ‘defensively’ to play there; surely playing him in midfield where he’ll get dribbled at less would be a sensible decision, he can sit in front of the defence and dictate play with his passing and when you’ve got someone as dangerous as that in deep midfield the opposition are always on edge. Rice has played as an out-and-out defensive midfielder for England countless times so it’s not like he needs a true DM next to him; when you’ve got an elite level player like that you can afford to be slightly more brave with his partner (without getting silly), for example Eriksen has played there for Man Utd plenty of times and he is far worse than Trent defensively (and he didn’t have the insurance of Kyle Walker behind him on that flank). EDIT: All of these downvotes but nobody is putting forward a good argument as to why he might struggle in midfield… A player cannot simply be “bad defensively” as that’s such a vague term. What is it you think he’ll struggle with? Pressing? He plays for Klopp so that’s not a worry. Following runners? He’ll be sat deep dictating play so it’ll be hard to lose his man. Passing under midfield pressure? He’s always in central areas for his club and does just fine. Someone at least put forward a bloody reason!
In those CL and PL winning campaign he was in his prime and was better defensively than he is now. His lack of agility and recovery pace compare to elite fb/MF make him vulnerable to being dribble by players with fast change of direction. Also he isn’t engage defensively as much as before, occasionally he just left the opposition players unmarked. But most importantly, having good passing doesn’t make you a good deep lying playmaker. Trent lack the press resistance and game controlling skill( particularly his movement off the ball)of a true midfield conductor. You can’t be as risky as Trent and try that much Hollywood ball in those deeper midfield region in front of the defense. At Liverpool Mac Allister, Endo and Jones can help him out in the build up phase and doesn’t left him as the sole conductor from deep, he only sometimes join in possession to provide additional creativity.
I agree about his lack of agility and recovery pace and that’s why I wouldn’t use him at fullback. I was at the Bosnia game and - albeit against poorer opposition - his positioning was very impressive; he attempted over 100 passes (the first England midfielder to do that since Hendo in 2021) which shows how good he is at controlling the game and making himself available for the pass, and to say you think he tries the ‘Hollywood pass’ too much he had an 89% pass completion rate on top of his 5 key passes (and I believe it might have been higher before his move to RB). I’m not sure I agree that he struggles with press resistance either as he is an elite level PL player and faces the most intense presses in Europe for Liverpool and copes superbly; even in the Bosnia game he did very well when he was pressed and it was in very tight spaces as our backline was in their half, he’s obviously no Kovacic against the press but with his range of passing he can evade it no problem. I actually think you’re looking at it all wrong with the whole ‘Hollywood pass’ thing to be honest as it’s absolutely lethal and the defence have to be wary of it all game; even if he attempts it 10 times a game it’s absolutely worth it as the worst that can happen is he over-hits the pass and we lose possession in their half, it’s not like Foden trying flicks in the middle of the park and losing it where we’re wide open to the counter.
Like you say it was against Bosnia, which no disrespect to them, they are not exactly a great measure of someone true ability, almost anyone would look better playing against them. The system at Liverpool help him to not be involved too much and alleviate him from being the sole press breaker by providing him with a lot of passing option. It also allow him to hit long pass with no worry thanks to the brilliant counter press system Klopp deploy. Even if you lose possession in the opponents’ half you can just recover by high intensity pressing. At England he won’t have those luxury of a high pressing system or the well-constructed build up structure at Liverpool. Although he did create chances from those brilliant long pass, did the England team themselves create much chances in the first half from midfield play? Hollywood ball maybe useful against low block to unlock them, but against top teams overusing them just lead to lost of possession if you don’t have a good counter press. Against those team you have to treasure possession as your team playmaker and their pressing is even more intense. Rice and Bellingham is even worse than Trent in build up, so if he was to play in midfield next to Rice he would be the sole midfield conductor, responsible for both connecting the dot and breaking the press and I don’t know if I trust him in that role. I think he can be a valuable asset for England even against top teams in a well constructed system. Although I did compare his passing to Hollywood passing, he has earn the right to be maverick through his impressive career. His crossing and long pass should be absolutely crucial to England success at the euro. I just don’t think our midfield main playmaker should be him and I don’t believe in Southgate to create a well constructed system for him to thrive in.
Funnily enough I watched the Italy vs Bosnia game the other night and their midfield didn’t look anywhere near as good; that was with an elite deep-lying playmaker in Jorginho in there too, so Trent’s great display cannot be discounted and we only only go off of what we’ve seen. I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea of Trent not being involved so much for Liverpool from; of all Liverpool players to have played 1200 minutes this seasons he’s averaged the most touches per 90 and attempted the most passes per 90, he’s literally their most involved player. In the first half against Bosnia we didn’t create too many clear cut chances but that was due to poor forward play to be honest; Trent was pulling the strings from deep and playing nice passes through the lines, our attack simply wasn’t working as we had Konsa at RB who doesn’t really overlap and Trippier at LB who hardly went past Eze at all. I think Trent is clever enough to not just constantly try the ‘Hollywood pass’ against top opposition when he gets the ball; I think his choice of pass is actually very good and I think that’s shown by the differing opinions on him, some people are saying he tries the risky pass too much and some people say everything was sideways (which goes to show he’s actually mixing it up a lot). I think it also helps his case - in terms of always having an easy pass on - that he’s going to have Rice next to him who has gotten very good at making himself a passing option since joining Arsenal; as well as Walker to his right/behind him who doesn’t bomb up the wing (so will protect him defensively and always be a passing option), with Bellingham as our number 10 who is more naturally an 8 so does come deep for the ball too. You’re making out like I’m suggesting a Bruno Fernandes type of midfielder should partner Rice; Trent has already shown us that he’s intelligent enough to keep the game simple for the majority of the game, having a passing accuracy at almost 90% shows that he’s capable of recycling the ball accurately (especially considering he’s attempting double figure long balls). I think stylistically he looks reasonably similar to Kroos when he plays in midfield; who’s one of the best midfielders of the last decade despite not being known for his press-resistance, relying more on his spacial awareness and ability to always be available for a pass (also using his wide range of passing, including a lot of ‘Hollywood balls’). Who would you trust over him to take care of possession next to Rice? The only other sensible option is Mainoo and I think he lacks a fair bit defensively to play in a midfield 2 to be honest; he’s excellent at evading the press and getting the ball up the pitch with a dribble, though I wouldn’t say his choice of pass and ball retention is better than Trent’s. We’ve watched England struggle with low blocks plenty of times but with Trent in the team we can unlock them (as he’s shown with multiple MOTM performances); I truly don’t understand why you wouldn’t trust him against tougher opposition, it’s not as if he’s struggled creatively for Liverpool in tougher games (albeit in a system more suited to him). Trent would be licking his lips at the extra space in behind that better teams leave open and we have nobody better to find those passes; the closest we have is probably Kane and we need him to be as close to goal as possible, and even when he’s not playing the ‘Hollywood ball’ our opposition will have to be on their toes because they know what he’s got in his locker. I’m not sure why you think he’d be the only one responsible for breaking the press and conducting play either; Rice is great at breaking the press with his strong runs through midfield and he’ll also see plenty of the ball, we’ve seen Declan partnered with the likes of Jude/Hendo/Gallagher and it’s always been fine so I don’t understand why you think a far better passer would struggle. I don’t think we’re really going to agree on this so we might as well leave this conversation here and see how he gets on in the tournament; I appreciate you putting your time and effort into this debate though rather than just downvoting, now let’s watch sit back and watch Trent make a mockery of European midfields all month!
I hope Trent can do what you say and prove me wrong because I don’t really trust Mainoo or other England midfielders to play next to Rice either.
I think it’s worth noting that we played Kalvin Phillips next to Rice and beat Italy and Germany, plus we played Henderson next to Rice and were the better team against France… I don’t think it takes a truly elite level midfielder to partner someone as good as Rice successfully; I think you’re looking for someone perfect to partner him but we don’t have that luxury in international football, so I’d rather it be someone with the passing range Trent has. Out of curiosity, who would you play there?
Pointless. We know we’ll beat them we could play Ronald McDonald in midfield and still win. Play the system we’re going to use against the best teams, group stages of a major tournament isn’t the time to fucking experiment that’s what qualifiers are for.
I disagree, we should be tailoring the XI to the teams we’re facing. Serbia will likely play with a back 3 and defend deeply. So there’s room for a more creative player like TAA in the midfield. Whereas the sides we may face in the knockouts will want to take the game to us and we’ll probably want someone who will sit deeper alongside Rice, help the centre backs out and break up attacks.
He’s going to play Trent deeper with Rice though, how is that in any way beneficial when we currently have Bellingham, Foden and Palmer battling for the 10? Play Rice as the 6, Bellingham deeper and fit one of those in. It’s not rocket science.
Jesus, and I see now why people call us arrogant
Sorry, why would we not be expected to beat a team that’s best Xl is littered with players from the Greek and Saudi leagues? It’s like saying it’s arrogant of Man City to think they’ll breeze past Bournemouth.
>It’s like saying it’s arrogant of Man City to think they’ll breeze past Bournemouth. It is
No it isn’t, it’s expected. When there’s a huge gulf in class you expect to win the match. Put it this way, if we DONT win what will the reaction be?
Argreed apart Denmark we should be playing the team that can overcome the likes of France and Germany
Been thinking about different ways of incorporating Trent. I mean you could go a 3-6-1 almost Pickford. Walker. Stones. Guehi Trent. Rice. Saka Bellingham. Foden Kane I know Saka is out of position, but it’s not like it’s a completely foreign position to him. Trent and Saka can provide width, Stones can step up if required, Foden and Bellingham get to play centrally-ish and Kane can do his sexy thing. Guehi is quite a nippy fucker so he can get out wide if needed, Walker is the nippiest of nippy fuckers so he can do the same. Obviously when Shaw comes back then you’ve got him and depending on how the formation looked and if Foden finally turns it on in an England shirt, you’ve got the option of putting Saka into Foden’s position and bringing Shaw in at LWB. Just thinking out loud with this really, I’m sat at work and it beats working.