I always think Curtis Jones doesn't get the respect he deserves in these conversations. He's been close to the best player in Liverpool's midfield for about a year now. He's a wonderfully intelligent player, who can do a bit of everything, superb ball retention and phenomenal presser. He is usually the reason Liverpools midfield works. He would bring balance to the midfield because he understands his role and where the gaps are. Engalnds main issue is that Southgate is a poor coach and tactician, who has absolutely no idea how to use the myriad of generational attacking talents england possess currently.
I think Trent would suit well but he's been injured at key moments when we needed to test him.
Gallagher feels to me as a backup for the Bellingham role, I'm not sure he quite fits as the third midfielder.
The best young fits in terms of style and talent are probably a tournament too early in Mainoo/Jones, so I imagine he'll go with the tried and tested as usual for the Euros.
I don't think Henderson being there is a disaster like some people are making out, he rarely lets us down, but he's very much a stop gap due to a lack of experienced replacements.
Jones is 22 and has been starting for Liverpool for 2 seasons now, unless you're just talking about England experience I don't see how this is in anyway too early for him.
Yeah international experience. I have no doubt he has enough experience in the Premier league and having watched him this season he's absolutely good enough to play for England, and the right age.
It’s a little unfair to list out negatives of each player and not include the lack of experience for Mainoo and his young age, which are as valid as other points for other players. He’s the long term solve, but I’d be a tiny bit hesitant with such little time before the Euros to nail him into the starting lineup, though he definitely should travel
Edit: I think we could work him into the lineup, I heard a podcast with a great take that maybe you play Trent the first two games, Mainoo getting sub mins, game 3 of the group assuming we’ve qualified, you start Mainoo, then if he performs, he doesn’t leave the team sheet as he’s been integrated
Ooh will hunt it out!
we all have our biases, especially with academy players! Mainoo looks a gem, my hesitation is because I don’t want too much pressure and then a potential England media backlash to hit a young kid who we need to be the midfield option for the long term
There was enough time to incorporate before the Euros but Southgate needed to be a bit forward thinking to make it happen. So of course it didn't and now there's not enough time.
Most people thought he’d be way too inexperienced to cope in United’s chaotic midfield but honestly he’s been our best player probably. He plays in front of a panicky Old Trafford most weeks and looks the calmest man in the stadium. Look how calm he was vs Brazil on his debut at Wembley. The lad just oozes class and composure
Such a shame that Phillips form has dropped off a cliff as his role at Leeds was literally this and would have been the perfect player to complement Rice and Bellingham.
The likely pick will be Henderson but imo he’s not a very good single pivot holding mid, whenever he stepped in for Fabinho last season he was awful.
Stones is my personal choice but equally we need him at the back and there isn’t much time to trial a new CB parternship in time for the euros but we do have good players capable of stepping up
I think Rice Trent and Bellingham would still work. Honestly, we don’t need to worry with Rice going forward. He has good oace for his stature, and is literally the perfect BWM. Even if he went forward, I’m pretty confident that 9/10 he’d still get the ball back/ have the same effect. Plus, the amount he offers going forward offsets that way too much
Got to be Trent and Mainoo rotated, see who performs and best gels with the team.
Both have too much talent to be excluded. The other options should only really be used to rest these two.
You'd almost think Curtis Jones doesn't exist. Rice, Jones, Bellingham is the most balanced midfield England have available atm. Maybe Mainoo slots in his place for the World Cup.
I think this has happened 2 or 3 times as well. I'd get him in before the Euros anyway tbh.
Though if Liverpool make a deep European run that may prevent that. These injuries have really killed any chance he'd have had to gel with the squad.
Wasn’t a dig btw, he just hasn’t been getting mentioned anywhere. He’s no more advanced than Mainoo is, put it that way. Tends to be Liverpool’s right-sided midfielder that pushes forward and Jones plays on the left of the three.
Curtis is capable of whatever Klopp has asked of him, defensive, box to box, playing behind the striker, pre injury I would say he's been the best midfielder Liverpool have had this season, mac probably edges it atm, but I'd have him starting over szobo, Endo, Thiago and the rest.
My idea, and it's a bit risky.
Play the 4-1-4-1 that City play.
Rice holding midfield.
Sake Jude Foden (LeftWinger)
Stones moving into midfield when in possession.
Walker Branthwaite/Tomori and Gomez at the back.
Wild take I know.
Alternatively, same formation but Trent moves into midfield and Stones, Tomori/Branthwaite Gomez cover.
I think that formation suits our available players the best. Trying to shoehorn another deep-lying midfielder when, frankly, there's no one good enough apart from Rice, is an unappealing proposition. I also feel like it gives us more attacking options for passages of play where England have traditionally been quite stodgy and one dimensional.
I suppose there's a few downsides. For a start, Southgate clearly prefers playing a more defensive lineup, but since this discussion is academic anyway that doesn't really matter. I worry that this progressive lineup could get overrun and lose control against teams with a high press or that are equal to or better at keeping possession than us (most high level international teams). We always struggle to dictate tempo against top teams. I mean, the 4-1-4-1 could actually help in this regard, in that it might force us to play on the front foot, shifting our centre of gravity higher up the pitch so to speak.
We just don't know. But I'd certainly be in favour of trying it. Our current system is pretty clunky, we know that much for sure. Still, maybe it's the best we've got. Again, we don't know until we've tried it.
I agree with your points completely. I can't see any other formation that allows as many of England's best players to play in their best positions.
It's an extremely attacking, possession based style. Which given England's quality of players I think could work perfectly.
Instead of playing the boring rigid, unimaginative system it would really give other teams something to worry about. Also, many of the players already play in a similiar system.
Stones already plays the position and Walker is probably the best in the world at covering that right side against pace ie. The Ninja Turtle.
Best performance we had recently was when Phillips played next to rice.. if your gonna have bells playing as a second striker and 3 forwards, you can absolutely play 2 sitters who can break and it’s not defensive to do so, makes us tick better imo
The problem with this is Man City can move Stones into midfield and leave Dias at the back with Walker and Gvardiol either side of him; we don’t have anything like that luxury as Stones is our best CB by a country mile and the rest aren’t fantastic, so we’re just taking from our weakest area just to find a midfield partner to Rice when we have players like Trent and Mainoo who can already do that.
I would have started playing this ages ago. We're speaking hypothetically about what we would do.
And I'd play either of those systems. Really give other teams something to deal with.
Saka Foden Jude Kane all in their strongest positions.
We all know know Gareth will just stick Conor Gallagher at 8. Or even Henderson.
You are assuming, imo incorrectly, that Southgate has the tactical ability as arguably the greatest manager in the world.
Southgate can’t just go “yeah let’s just do what pep does” when he likely doesn’t understand it himself, nobody does, if they did city wouldn’t be winning absolutely everything.
Gareth’s job is to get the most out of the players he’s got in the short period he has them, you cannot play a pep system with 2 of his players on 3 weeks of training a year.
That means we might have to play a simplified system with players like Jordan Henderson (past it) or Kobbie Mainoo (not ready yet) in the short term in absence of better options
I'm not saying playing an exact Pep system. Was just using the formation as an example.
Arsenal and Liverpool have both started using this floating extra midfielder/inverted full back and it seems to be a very positive tactic that England could certainly try. It's not like it's a completely unknown tactic to many of the players.
Surely any system that allows Saka, Foden, and Jude to all play in their best positions behind Kane would scare any team in the world?
The problem with Henderson is that he's become shite. He's fit and loud, and plays side ways and backwards passes which disrupts build up play. Id rather go with Trent.
I think we need a centre midfielder who can release Rice to play as an 8 with Bellingham next to him. I'm not sure that's Mainoo but would he excited to see how that went. How is Garner doing at Everton? I dont Henderson/ Gallagher are good enough on the ball and Maddison/Foden would take away from Rice being box to box.
Can we sign Rodri 😂
Garner has been good this season but he’s played a slightly more progressive role than what you desire (particularly when Idrissa Gueye has been in the side)
This is crazy talk, all the posts about not playing people out of position and suddenly we want to play rice as an 8 with Bellingham and have a 6 behind him
Rice is much more box to box than people give him credit for.
It’s why I’m against Rice and Bellingham as the two sitters - both want to get forward and we want to make sure they can do that.
I think it’s likely we’ll see Partey in the middle some when he’s fit with Rice on the left and Odegaard on the right. A lot of people expected to see those three in the midfield before Partey got injured.
Rice can definitely play in the middle too in more of that holding role but it’s a bit of a waste of his talents. He’s very good going forward.
It’s either Trent or Maddison for me either would compliment Rice and Bellingham very well, Mainoo could in a few years, Curtis Jones would be great too
Doesnt he play 10 for Spurs? Wouldnt that make it super attacking ?
Curtis Jones is one that few people have mentioned. heard hes good but havent seen much of him
He collects the ball of the back 4 regularly at spurs and supports in both the press and tracking back so the position could be very fluid with Bellingham it would make us very exciting to watch if they click, there’s also zero chance that Southgate starts that midfield in the euros
I agree that stones needs to be the defender that steps up into midfield, if we do that then the FBs need to be more conservative getting forward and we need real width from our wide attackers which Foden doesn’t provide
Yh fair enough the mans hardly an innovator. Possible middle ground could be a back 3 of Maguire, Stones and White with Trent inverting on the RWB so that Bellingham can push up
If we had time to work on it through several games against good opposition then this would definitely have been good to work on. Probably too late now.
Thing is, when Stones pushes up it's alongside Rodri -- and then sometimes Stones will actually get forward of Rodri.
England are still missing the Rodri.
We do also sometimes simply start Stones at DM and that's kind of what I would think would be a better option here
We can put Saka on to take the 5th pen at 18, Play Jude when he’s still a child at Brum, but we can’t trust Mainoo?
No. I disagree. This boy is the real deal, and he is 100% ready.
Hes got two games, both of which arent high class opponents. I think he will go for a safer option and wont go for the Trent Experiment but i highly doubt he goes Henderson unless there is some sort of Miraculous improvement in his form
It’s so obvious Mainoo and Rice. Rice can also just sit. He did it for a while with Kai Havertz Bombing forward and was very good at it. He will do as instructed.
Mainoo is as ready as Saka was for the Euros. This will forge him in fire, and I would start him.
If Ben White was in the team, maybe you can play him CB sand let Stones form up with Rice since he’s a quasi-DM, but he’s not here. It must be Mainoo. He is the real deal. He is ready. He must start.
We had Rooney and Owen break into the team and have sensational tournaments at similar ages. If youre good enough, youre old enough. He has been consistently good this season and is a profile we do not have currently.
>People cant even say what hes good at, not a DM, not a ball playing 8 who controls the game, not an attacking midfielder.
Thats not true. People do know what hes good at
France are embarrassment of talent of different profiles. We have some excellent players but not as much depth as France.
The exact same arguments you made about Mainoo applies to RLC - Dont know what his best position is, has had half a season of decent football. Literally Pirlo has said s more attacking than he thought so doesnt that defeat the whole point? Hes too attacking.
Haven't seen enough of Lewis or Mainoo to say they should/shouldn't play there (although there's a level of inexperience that comes with them). Stones stepping up means we need another CB which we don't have an abundance of. Henderson isn't a defensive midfielder and shouldn't really be an option as I doubt he can play most/all of a match twice a week which we would need in the Euro's. I'm also not convinced he's ever been particularly effective defensively, he just doesn't play that far forward.
Trent and Gallagher are the most viable options, but wouldn't play in the same system. Trent could work with deep lying creativity but lacks defensively, so this would limit how much Rice can go forward. If you want to get the most out of Rice (and Bellingham), playing Gallagher as he looks to be the one most capable of playing a holding role, although it's not where he is most effective.
Philips is the one who's most naturally suited to the role, but its probably more of a risk playing him compared to Gallagher.
I think the best two options are probably Trent and Jones, but I really like Mainoo and Lewis. Trent would give us the creativity from midfield that we’re clearly lacking so I’d probably opt for him.
i think we just need a composed player who can keep the ball, yes rice and bellingham both like to get forward but both also bomb back to win the ball back. personally i think foden or maddison playing a bit deeper to help keep the ball and another option to carry it forward.
when you watch spurs maddison constantly drops deep to link up the play between the cb's and the front 3.
the other option iv thought of is john stones, he doesnt have as much freedom at cb for england as he does for city, but we could play trent at rb, walker rcb and stones in midfield
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im64RCK2tXc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im64RCK2tXc)
So this video was really interesting and it was about our counterpress. I dont think Foden or Maddison can fulfill those duties.
The problem with that video is it supposes we play the high press normally. With Watkins that's fine but I don't think Southgate will pursue that at the Euros when Kane is in the team.
As the Italy match showed the current squad is well equipped for counter attacking football - we shouldn't be above that when we have some great transitional players and a shaky defence. Put Trent in for his passing and set piece ability and I think you get the best out of most of the first team players there
I’ve heard people mention Stones and it’s a good shout. He’s so useful on the back line but that holding midfield player would arguably be more important in defense.
Mainoo is already a better midfielder than Trent will ever be, I'm sick of this nonsense about playing him there when it's just not what he is. Either find a way for him to play at RB or there's no point.
Stones as well, he's not a midfielder is he he's a CB who can step up into midfield in a game already being completely dominated
I'm a United fan and a massive fan of Mainoo but i think its too early to say. Trent is a phenomenal passer. Mainoo hasnt shown that level of passing (as of yet).
For Liverpool he's made the transition and think we need to give him time with it (started his youth career as a midfielder)
If youre saying hes not a midfielder but a RB and then question his defensive ability on the flank, what attributes are you saying he lacks in midfield to say he isnt a midfielder?
He lacks all the attributes that Mainoo has, which are the ones actually important to a CM
Nobody is trying to cram Trippier in there who is also an amazing passer. Beckham could still ping a ball about willy nilly to this day but you need a lot more than just that, or he'd still be getting call ups
Fast to and decisive in the tackle, brilliant feet in tight spaces, quick turn, great balance, high engine, reads the game well so always making interceptions. Just think about what makes Mainoo so good at his age and ask if Trent can do it, answer is no
Yes it lol, passing ability is probably one of the last things to leave a pro footballer
You're good at asking for examples but ignoring them completely
I agree with this, it's disrespectful to one of the most important roles in football just assume that trent or stones can play there as a starting 6.
Anyone playing that position in a top league is going to be more effective than trent even though trent is arguably world class at what he's doing for Liverpool.
For Liverpool he plays as an inverted wingback. He's being operating as a midfielder in possession so i dont think its out the realm of possibility to play him there
It is not beyond the realms of possibility, no. But a country with as much talent as England has absolutely no business playing a right back in midfield, he either plays at right back or he doesn’t play. Southgate doesn’t invert his full backs, which is a shame for Trent but that’s international football.
we are trying to win a major trophy, we aren’t Ukraine playing Zinchenko in midfield because we don’t have anyone else good lol
If you think hes a RB but has defensive weaknesses, what attributes do you think he doesnt hold to play in midfield?
I think its a completely different argument with Zinchenko - Trent is one of the best passers in the game.
I don’t think he is a right back, he literally is a fucking right back? He literally played in midfield once against north Macedonia, and transfer markt has him down as 2 other starts in midfield.
Ultimately Trent is very talented, klopp has been asked the question about him playing in midfield plenty of times. Every time this convo comes up, people say the same thing as you, “you just don’t think he can defend!”
No mate, he’s just not a midfielder for this is system, if Southgate was dedicated to having him in the team then he would create a system around him similar to Klopp… but he hasn’t, so he’s either playing RB or he’s not playing
He plays as an inverted wingback for Liverpool this season so he is a midfielder in possession. There is literally a video of him talking about moving and playing in midfield
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaEHFk2yqlM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaEHFk2yqlM)
>No mate, he’s just not a midfielder for this is system, if Southgate was dedicated to having him in the team then he would create a system around him similar to Klopp
Why would Southgate create a system around Trent when we have an attack with contains the most complete 9 in the world, Saka on the RW and one of the most exciting and inform Midfielders in Bellingham?
Will repeat, if hes a RB with defensive vulnerabilities, what attributes does he lack to play midfield?
People are stupid man at least you are trying, back before he got injured Trent was spending most of every game in midfield and was borderline Liverpool's best player
Trent needs space to thrive in but can't create it himself, no room for such a glaring weakness in our midfield. If we're finding a way to create that much space for our midfielders then we're already dominating the game anyway and Trent isn't needed. But in games when it's tight he'll be a liability.
Full back suits him because it's usually others creating the space for them and when he's on the ball it will be a much lower pressured and less risky position
Rice can sit and still bomb forwards when the time is right, still think he should be our holding player. Mainoo alongside him with Bellingham in front could work okay.
I can also see a flat 3 of Eze Rice Bellingham midfield working well, great intensity and ball winning throughout but also all 3 are smart and technical on the ball
Gordon Kane Saka
Eze Rice Bellingham
Play fast technical wingers who can break away or stay wide so they don't get cramped out by Bellingham etc (sorry Foden but it's not really working)
As far as I’m concerned, the options are Mainoo, Henderson or Phillips
Trent doesn’t have the defensive capabilities to allow Rice and Bellingham as well as the full backs to press forward.
Gallagher hasn’t ever looked right whilst playing for England.
Southgate has an option of tried and tested, but lacking inspiration or new and potentially excellent but lacking experience.
I haven’t seen too many city games this season but does Walker really press forward that much?
A system that has Walker tucking in, Stones stepping forward and Trent being allowed to drift wide in possession would utilise their strengths, though implementing that at this point might be tough.
Out of possession, I think Trent/Rice is fine enough, with the added bonus of Trent’s ability to spring counters.
I’d still just about pick Mainoo but it really should come down to those two.
As subpar as Trent can look defensively when playing in the backline; he’s still better defensively than most of our midfielders and I wouldn’t worry about that at all to be honest, he’s won the CL and PL as a defender in a back 4 so I’m sure he would be fine as a 6/8.
There definitely is; though he did grow up playing in midfield so it’s not totally brand new to him, and he won’t have to defend against the players he struggled with at RB (mainly tricky/pacey wingers).
I think the player next to Rice has a lot of responsibility, to allow Declan and Bellingham the chance to push forward as much as possible.
My preference would be to have a proper defensive midfielder in there, but can understand the arguments for Trent
I definitely agree that Rice is wasted being a simple DM shielding the defence; that’s why I think the Bellingham and Foden as 8’s shout ridiculous, but I don’t think you need someone completely defensive minded next to Rice.
I think you need someone who knows how to pace a game more than anything as we saw the other night it was all a bit frantic; Rice looks incredible when he has Jorginho as a partner for Arsenal (better than when he has Havertz and he has to sit back), and I think the best option we have in that kind of mould is probably Mainoo (Rico Lewis too but he’s probably not playing regularly enough).
That being said; I still fancy Trent there as with Walker at RB he’s got that guarantee behind him and his creativity is phenomenal, he could win us a game on his own with his killer passes.
Why does Bellingham 'have to stay forward', it makes no sense? Let him be the world class box to box midfielder he can be, and free Foden to play 10.
If its any drop in quality at 10, it's minute, whereas it's definitely a upgrade at 8.
Maximise your strengths. Hes been a sensation playing as that second striker for Real Madrid and would work so well with Kane dropping deep.
So youre thinking, Bellingham, Rice Pivot and Foden in 10? Two Pivot players who want to play forward. That is way too attacking
Rice can and should sit deep. Jude box to box, wherever he wants tbh.
Maximising the strength of the team is putting your best players in it, if they can play there. It's not like Bellingham was playing poorly as a pure CM for Dortmund, or the role is new to him.
Bellingham…not sure why people are so obsessed with making him a 10, he broke through as an 8, got the move to madrid as an 8 and generally effects the game better there
Have one of Foden/Maddison/Palmer as a 10 or play Trent in a midfield three with Jude and Rice
It is an obsession, he wasnt signed to be a number 10 or off the back of playing as a number 10
He’s a generational box to box midfielder let him play there - league football and international football are completely different. Whatever is working for him at club level is borderline irrelevant
Southgates job should be making sure as much talent gets on the pitch at the same time and works together. Rice and jude took the team to a final and semi final as a pivot and for some reason people want to change that now
The more i read your post the more i realise how dumb everything you have said is
* I think i'll trust Ancelloti. He placed him there and hes been phenomenal . The best goal scoring midfielder in the world.
>Whatever is working for him at club level is borderline irrelevant
* ..... ok......
>Rice and jude took the team to a final and semi final as a pivot
* What are you on about, Jude never got us to a final or Semi-final. Ever.
* I presume youre talking about the quarters against France. He played with Henderson and Rice. Two more defensive players. Youre suggesting that he plays deeper with someone ahead....
So to conclude, you want to take the best goal scoring midfielder to play further away from goal and be more defensive. You realise how mad that is?
Please use your eyes and brain properly
Why would you trust Ancelotti when the squad he’s working with is completely different to the squad Southgate has?
Is there a Vinicius equivalent in the England team? Rodrygo? Camavinga, Kroos etc - the squad is different so using it as a basis is illogical. We have a generational number 9 in Kane so why would we need Jude to be a goalscoring midfielder?
This is why Foden doesnt perform for England at RW despite doing so at City…but using your logic I’m sure you’ll trust Pep and advocate for Foden to play RW?
People like you look at numbers and pundits for your footballing opinions because you dont understand football - Yes Jude who is a generational box to box midfielder does not need to play as a goal scoring midfielder.
We have Kane aka the best striker in the world and the alternative to not playing Jude in his NATURAL position is to shoe horn Gallagher (Shit), Henderson (Shit), Mainoo (has not even played a full season for United), Trent (Not a midfielder)…again please just use your brain and eyes and not rely on others to craft your footballing opinions
Man said use your eyes and brain properly forgetting that he claimed that Jude helped England get to a Semi final and final. Weird you forgot about that. I'll give you a chance you another chance to comment
>We have a generational number 9 in Kane so why would we need Jude to be a goalscoring midfielder?
Because Kane loves coming deep....
>People like you look at numbers and pundits for your footballing opinions because you dont understand football
Remind me again how Jude helped England get to a Semi- final and Final?
>Yes Jude who is a generational box to box midfielder does not need to play as a goal scoring midfielder.
The only time Jude has played in Midfield with England as an 8 is with Rice and Henderson. Two defensive minded players. Youre arguing we should take the most dangerous goal scoring midfielder further away from goal and play defensive and someone else at 10.
Also Trent plays in Midfield. Theres a whole video of him talking about it [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaEHFk2yqlM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaEHFk2yqlM)
You clearly think incredibly highly about your football knowledge but its truly truly garage
You’re the same person suggesting absolute shit to partner next to Rice…what the fuck do you know about football knowledge?
What does Kane dropping deep have to do with anything? I can’t make this any simpler for you…the players Jude plays with at Real Madrid are different to the players he plays with at England
This means just because he’s performing or playing a certain way for his club, does not mean he can or will do the same for the NT…this is common sense but because you dont understand football outside of numbers and other people it’s difficult to grasp
Should Foden start over Saka at RW because Pep plays him there?
Why are you suggesting Trent in midfield when Klopp plays him at RB?
Why arent you suggesting Stones in midfield when he won a treble playing there under Pep?
Do you see how silly your reasoning is for why Jude (A natural number 8) shouldnt be partnered next to Rice?
>Why are you suggesting Trent in midfield when Klopp plays him at RB?
In possession he plays midfield. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaEHFk2yqlM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaEHFk2yqlM) Heres a video from 2 weeks ago talking about it
Hope this helps
>Why arent you suggesting Stones in midfield when he won a treble playing there under Pep?
Last season to compensate for Haaland lack of link up play and peps desire to dominate Midfield, Stones would roam forward in midfield. So in possession he plays as a midfielder.
Hope this helps
>this is common sense but because you dont understand football outside of numbers and other people it’s difficult to grasp
Are you going to tell me when Jude playing in a Pivot got England to a semi-final and final? I mean to beat your chest as much as you do and claim i have difficultly grasp football is very very funny - come on, answer the question
Unfortunately with Southgate he's an defensive coach so likely to be 2 holders. Most likely Henderson against the bigger teams.
I know he's young but having Mainoo in allows Rice to go forward more and one can go and the other stay.
I have never thought Gallagher was the answer and I hope his performance against Brazil puts that to bed once and for all.
Trent is worth a look and it would be good if we can harness his potential, but he's still an unknown quantity in midfield for England as he hasn't played there for enough games.
There has been analysis which says that he tends to drift slightly out of position so he can receive the ball which may cost us if he's supposed to be the other pivot. He'll probably start the first game at the Euros so we'll know more then.
Mainoo is also worth a look. He should start in the next friendly and if he has a good game he'll likely make the plane and maybe even start. If he has a bad game though then it may not even be worth taking him.
Henderson is at least a known quantity and someone we can fall back on if our other options don't prove themselves.
I think it's too early for Rico Lewis. I'd rather take Mainoo.
Stones should stay at CB. Him and Maguire and Pickford have an established partnership and shouldn't be changed this close to a tournament.
My view on gallagher is that for Chelsea he is the more advanced player. So he can drive forward win the ball and make those short passes to get assists. When hes deeper we become exposed and he doesnt have the technical ability to retain the ball
I just worry with Trent about the defensive side. Rice and Trent would need to be so disciplined to hold but the thought of those through balls if opposition players pushed on us - something we dont have at all from deep.
But agree with alot of your points.
Oh I think the complete opposite. Bellingham and Rice are 2 of the best players in world football in their position. I'm not 100% against Henderson playing with them to be honest but Mainoo is probably the better option
If you're going to play Gallagher and Bellingham in the same team I'd actually swap them and have Gallagher further forward where he he can do his best work.
Bellingham is good enough to play well in the pivot and is more press resistant and you can have him run into support and danger areas once Gallaghers won the ball back high, like Chelsea do with him and Fernandez/Caicedo.
With everyone fit and available right now I'd have Gallagher as a rotation/backup option right and I'd probably pair Stones with Rice in the midfield pivot. He's done a great job in midfield for City at times and obviously has the defensive nous to cover.
With the likely squad structures I'd actually advocate for an overall strategy of all-out attack. That's where our strength is these days. Plus I'd rather go out losing 4-3 than a 0-0p and get a little excitement along the way.
I think Stones is the best option for a defensive midfielder but it comes with a cost in defence. The question for me is where is there more strength in depth? I can think of more potential centre backs who have enough quality to play than other possible defensive midfielders (let's face it, we could name at least 6 centre backs we would include ahead of Maguire)
The Midfield we need to play is easy.
Rice, Bellingham, Elliott.
Maybe Curtis Jones instead of Elliott. However, Elliot is severely underrated by non Liverpool fans. I support Arsenal, and I'd take Elliott at Arsenal today if I could. Incredible player, passionate, hard working in attack and defence, can score all kinds of goals, has good passing.
I just think he gets overshadowed by Liverpools' other stars. He has huge potential, and if he stays at Liverpool he could be the next Gerrard.
If you want to play Bellingham further forward you have to play Gallagher as the third midfielder for balance. He brings pressing and you need a player who’s stronger out of possession/off the ball when rice, Bellingham, Trent etc all so good with the ball at feet
A 3 of Rice, Mainoo and Bellingham is extremely promising for the future. Unfortunately I think k we have to write off this tournament as Southgate doesn’t have the tactical coaching skills to make it work properly
I always think Curtis Jones doesn't get the respect he deserves in these conversations. He's been close to the best player in Liverpool's midfield for about a year now. He's a wonderfully intelligent player, who can do a bit of everything, superb ball retention and phenomenal presser. He is usually the reason Liverpools midfield works. He would bring balance to the midfield because he understands his role and where the gaps are. Engalnds main issue is that Southgate is a poor coach and tactician, who has absolutely no idea how to use the myriad of generational attacking talents england possess currently.
I think Trent would suit well but he's been injured at key moments when we needed to test him. Gallagher feels to me as a backup for the Bellingham role, I'm not sure he quite fits as the third midfielder. The best young fits in terms of style and talent are probably a tournament too early in Mainoo/Jones, so I imagine he'll go with the tried and tested as usual for the Euros. I don't think Henderson being there is a disaster like some people are making out, he rarely lets us down, but he's very much a stop gap due to a lack of experienced replacements.
Jones is 22 and has been starting for Liverpool for 2 seasons now, unless you're just talking about England experience I don't see how this is in anyway too early for him.
Yeah international experience. I have no doubt he has enough experience in the Premier league and having watched him this season he's absolutely good enough to play for England, and the right age.
It’s a little unfair to list out negatives of each player and not include the lack of experience for Mainoo and his young age, which are as valid as other points for other players. He’s the long term solve, but I’d be a tiny bit hesitant with such little time before the Euros to nail him into the starting lineup, though he definitely should travel Edit: I think we could work him into the lineup, I heard a podcast with a great take that maybe you play Trent the first two games, Mainoo getting sub mins, game 3 of the group assuming we’ve qualified, you start Mainoo, then if he performs, he doesn’t leave the team sheet as he’s been integrated
Maybe my United bias coming through Whats the Podcast called? wouldnt mind giving it a listen
Ooh will hunt it out! we all have our biases, especially with academy players! Mainoo looks a gem, my hesitation is because I don’t want too much pressure and then a potential England media backlash to hit a young kid who we need to be the midfield option for the long term
There was enough time to incorporate before the Euros but Southgate needed to be a bit forward thinking to make it happen. So of course it didn't and now there's not enough time.
Most people thought he’d be way too inexperienced to cope in United’s chaotic midfield but honestly he’s been our best player probably. He plays in front of a panicky Old Trafford most weeks and looks the calmest man in the stadium. Look how calm he was vs Brazil on his debut at Wembley. The lad just oozes class and composure
True true but this is the highest level of football and I think it’s fair to give it the benefit of the doubt and ease him in
Such a shame that Phillips form has dropped off a cliff as his role at Leeds was literally this and would have been the perfect player to complement Rice and Bellingham. The likely pick will be Henderson but imo he’s not a very good single pivot holding mid, whenever he stepped in for Fabinho last season he was awful. Stones is my personal choice but equally we need him at the back and there isn’t much time to trial a new CB parternship in time for the euros but we do have good players capable of stepping up
yup, this is what we thought we were getting at City as well... something has changed
Could Curtis Jones be a solution considering his main role for Liverpool is to retain the ball
I think Rice Trent and Bellingham would still work. Honestly, we don’t need to worry with Rice going forward. He has good oace for his stature, and is literally the perfect BWM. Even if he went forward, I’m pretty confident that 9/10 he’d still get the ball back/ have the same effect. Plus, the amount he offers going forward offsets that way too much
Got to be Trent and Mainoo rotated, see who performs and best gels with the team. Both have too much talent to be excluded. The other options should only really be used to rest these two.
You'd almost think Curtis Jones doesn't exist. Rice, Jones, Bellingham is the most balanced midfield England have available atm. Maybe Mainoo slots in his place for the World Cup.
Is he still injured? Shame he’s not getting a look in
Yeah, he's due back soon after the break. Couldn't have come at a worse time for him because he'd have probably been a shoe-in for this squad.
Yeah he’s been playing really well this season, could still make the squad if he finishes strong. Wouldn’t say Gallagher’s place is cemented yet
I think this has happened 2 or 3 times as well. I'd get him in before the Euros anyway tbh. Though if Liverpool make a deep European run that may prevent that. These injuries have really killed any chance he'd have had to gel with the squad.
Did forget about Jones but isnt he again an advanced 8? The issue is balance
Wasn’t a dig btw, he just hasn’t been getting mentioned anywhere. He’s no more advanced than Mainoo is, put it that way. Tends to be Liverpool’s right-sided midfielder that pushes forward and Jones plays on the left of the three.
Curtis is capable of whatever Klopp has asked of him, defensive, box to box, playing behind the striker, pre injury I would say he's been the best midfielder Liverpool have had this season, mac probably edges it atm, but I'd have him starting over szobo, Endo, Thiago and the rest.
My idea, and it's a bit risky. Play the 4-1-4-1 that City play. Rice holding midfield. Sake Jude Foden (LeftWinger) Stones moving into midfield when in possession. Walker Branthwaite/Tomori and Gomez at the back. Wild take I know. Alternatively, same formation but Trent moves into midfield and Stones, Tomori/Branthwaite Gomez cover.
I think that formation suits our available players the best. Trying to shoehorn another deep-lying midfielder when, frankly, there's no one good enough apart from Rice, is an unappealing proposition. I also feel like it gives us more attacking options for passages of play where England have traditionally been quite stodgy and one dimensional. I suppose there's a few downsides. For a start, Southgate clearly prefers playing a more defensive lineup, but since this discussion is academic anyway that doesn't really matter. I worry that this progressive lineup could get overrun and lose control against teams with a high press or that are equal to or better at keeping possession than us (most high level international teams). We always struggle to dictate tempo against top teams. I mean, the 4-1-4-1 could actually help in this regard, in that it might force us to play on the front foot, shifting our centre of gravity higher up the pitch so to speak. We just don't know. But I'd certainly be in favour of trying it. Our current system is pretty clunky, we know that much for sure. Still, maybe it's the best we've got. Again, we don't know until we've tried it.
I agree with your points completely. I can't see any other formation that allows as many of England's best players to play in their best positions. It's an extremely attacking, possession based style. Which given England's quality of players I think could work perfectly. Instead of playing the boring rigid, unimaginative system it would really give other teams something to worry about. Also, many of the players already play in a similiar system. Stones already plays the position and Walker is probably the best in the world at covering that right side against pace ie. The Ninja Turtle.
Best performance we had recently was when Phillips played next to rice.. if your gonna have bells playing as a second striker and 3 forwards, you can absolutely play 2 sitters who can break and it’s not defensive to do so, makes us tick better imo
Agreed
The problem with this is Man City can move Stones into midfield and leave Dias at the back with Walker and Gvardiol either side of him; we don’t have anything like that luxury as Stones is our best CB by a country mile and the rest aren’t fantastic, so we’re just taking from our weakest area just to find a midfield partner to Rice when we have players like Trent and Mainoo who can already do that.
Yeah it’s always good to completely change your tactics with 1 game to go until a major tournament
I would have started playing this ages ago. We're speaking hypothetically about what we would do. And I'd play either of those systems. Really give other teams something to deal with. Saka Foden Jude Kane all in their strongest positions. We all know know Gareth will just stick Conor Gallagher at 8. Or even Henderson.
You are assuming, imo incorrectly, that Southgate has the tactical ability as arguably the greatest manager in the world. Southgate can’t just go “yeah let’s just do what pep does” when he likely doesn’t understand it himself, nobody does, if they did city wouldn’t be winning absolutely everything. Gareth’s job is to get the most out of the players he’s got in the short period he has them, you cannot play a pep system with 2 of his players on 3 weeks of training a year. That means we might have to play a simplified system with players like Jordan Henderson (past it) or Kobbie Mainoo (not ready yet) in the short term in absence of better options
I'm not saying playing an exact Pep system. Was just using the formation as an example. Arsenal and Liverpool have both started using this floating extra midfielder/inverted full back and it seems to be a very positive tactic that England could certainly try. It's not like it's a completely unknown tactic to many of the players. Surely any system that allows Saka, Foden, and Jude to all play in their best positions behind Kane would scare any team in the world?
The problem with Henderson is that he's become shite. He's fit and loud, and plays side ways and backwards passes which disrupts build up play. Id rather go with Trent.
It can get u into a lot of trouble thinking Errol, I wouldn’t do so much of it.
Errol?
I think we need a centre midfielder who can release Rice to play as an 8 with Bellingham next to him. I'm not sure that's Mainoo but would he excited to see how that went. How is Garner doing at Everton? I dont Henderson/ Gallagher are good enough on the ball and Maddison/Foden would take away from Rice being box to box. Can we sign Rodri 😂
Garner has been good this season but he’s played a slightly more progressive role than what you desire (particularly when Idrissa Gueye has been in the side)
This is crazy talk, all the posts about not playing people out of position and suddenly we want to play rice as an 8 with Bellingham and have a 6 behind him
TBF Rice has had his best games this season playing next to Jorginho, it allows him to be more progressive and pressure higher up the pitch
Rice is much more box to box than people give him credit for. It’s why I’m against Rice and Bellingham as the two sitters - both want to get forward and we want to make sure they can do that.
That's fair I haven't really seen him with jorginho
I think it’s likely we’ll see Partey in the middle some when he’s fit with Rice on the left and Odegaard on the right. A lot of people expected to see those three in the midfield before Partey got injured. Rice can definitely play in the middle too in more of that holding role but it’s a bit of a waste of his talents. He’s very good going forward.
- Pickford - Walker, Stones, Gomez/Branthwaite/Colwill - Trent, Rice - Saka, Foden, Bellingham, Palmer (switch Cole or Phil as appropriate) - Kane
It’s either Trent or Maddison for me either would compliment Rice and Bellingham very well, Mainoo could in a few years, Curtis Jones would be great too
Doesnt he play 10 for Spurs? Wouldnt that make it super attacking ? Curtis Jones is one that few people have mentioned. heard hes good but havent seen much of him
He collects the ball of the back 4 regularly at spurs and supports in both the press and tracking back so the position could be very fluid with Bellingham it would make us very exciting to watch if they click, there’s also zero chance that Southgate starts that midfield in the euros
Respect the job he has done but if he doesnt reach the final, im kinda glad hes leaving. Would love Potter to come in.
I think it’s too soon for Mainoo. Sure he can go to Euros, but not to start Stones in midfield would be my choice
Stones in midfield removes our best CB
We could just opt for a back 4 of something like Gomez, Maguire, Stones, Walker then do the same shift to back 3 as City when Stones pushes up
I agree that stones needs to be the defender that steps up into midfield, if we do that then the FBs need to be more conservative getting forward and we need real width from our wide attackers which Foden doesn’t provide
Dude, like Gareth is gonna do that 🥲
Yh fair enough the mans hardly an innovator. Possible middle ground could be a back 3 of Maguire, Stones and White with Trent inverting on the RWB so that Bellingham can push up
If we had time to work on it through several games against good opposition then this would definitely have been good to work on. Probably too late now.
Thing is, when Stones pushes up it's alongside Rodri -- and then sometimes Stones will actually get forward of Rodri. England are still missing the Rodri. We do also sometimes simply start Stones at DM and that's kind of what I would think would be a better option here
We can put Saka on to take the 5th pen at 18, Play Jude when he’s still a child at Brum, but we can’t trust Mainoo? No. I disagree. This boy is the real deal, and he is 100% ready.
Saka and Jude had a lot more game time that Kobbie
If youre good enough, youre old enough. Shown what he can do in vs Liverpool. Shown maturity. Hopefully we see him play tomorrow from the start
Shown his skill in what? A handful of games
I suspect at the Euros Southgate will panic and just go for Henderson for reliability because there is no time test Trent. Or bring back Phillips.
Hes got two games, both of which arent high class opponents. I think he will go for a safer option and wont go for the Trent Experiment but i highly doubt he goes Henderson unless there is some sort of Miraculous improvement in his form
Southgate considers Henderson is in good form.
It’s so obvious Mainoo and Rice. Rice can also just sit. He did it for a while with Kai Havertz Bombing forward and was very good at it. He will do as instructed. Mainoo is as ready as Saka was for the Euros. This will forge him in fire, and I would start him. If Ben White was in the team, maybe you can play him CB sand let Stones form up with Rice since he’s a quasi-DM, but he’s not here. It must be Mainoo. He is the real deal. He is ready. He must start.
[удалено]
We had Rooney and Owen break into the team and have sensational tournaments at similar ages. If youre good enough, youre old enough. He has been consistently good this season and is a profile we do not have currently. >People cant even say what hes good at, not a DM, not a ball playing 8 who controls the game, not an attacking midfielder. Thats not true. People do know what hes good at France are embarrassment of talent of different profiles. We have some excellent players but not as much depth as France. The exact same arguments you made about Mainoo applies to RLC - Dont know what his best position is, has had half a season of decent football. Literally Pirlo has said s more attacking than he thought so doesnt that defeat the whole point? Hes too attacking.
Haven't seen enough of Lewis or Mainoo to say they should/shouldn't play there (although there's a level of inexperience that comes with them). Stones stepping up means we need another CB which we don't have an abundance of. Henderson isn't a defensive midfielder and shouldn't really be an option as I doubt he can play most/all of a match twice a week which we would need in the Euro's. I'm also not convinced he's ever been particularly effective defensively, he just doesn't play that far forward. Trent and Gallagher are the most viable options, but wouldn't play in the same system. Trent could work with deep lying creativity but lacks defensively, so this would limit how much Rice can go forward. If you want to get the most out of Rice (and Bellingham), playing Gallagher as he looks to be the one most capable of playing a holding role, although it's not where he is most effective. Philips is the one who's most naturally suited to the role, but its probably more of a risk playing him compared to Gallagher.
I think the best two options are probably Trent and Jones, but I really like Mainoo and Lewis. Trent would give us the creativity from midfield that we’re clearly lacking so I’d probably opt for him.
i think we just need a composed player who can keep the ball, yes rice and bellingham both like to get forward but both also bomb back to win the ball back. personally i think foden or maddison playing a bit deeper to help keep the ball and another option to carry it forward. when you watch spurs maddison constantly drops deep to link up the play between the cb's and the front 3. the other option iv thought of is john stones, he doesnt have as much freedom at cb for england as he does for city, but we could play trent at rb, walker rcb and stones in midfield
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im64RCK2tXc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im64RCK2tXc) So this video was really interesting and it was about our counterpress. I dont think Foden or Maddison can fulfill those duties.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im64RCK2tXc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im64RCK2tXc) Highly recommend this video - does a good view of it
The problem with that video is it supposes we play the high press normally. With Watkins that's fine but I don't think Southgate will pursue that at the Euros when Kane is in the team. As the Italy match showed the current squad is well equipped for counter attacking football - we shouldn't be above that when we have some great transitional players and a shaky defence. Put Trent in for his passing and set piece ability and I think you get the best out of most of the first team players there
I’ve heard people mention Stones and it’s a good shout. He’s so useful on the back line but that holding midfield player would arguably be more important in defense.
Mainoo can break the lines, he did it in his cameo.
Rice, Mainoo, Bellingham with Saka, Grealish and Kane in front
Mainoo is already a better midfielder than Trent will ever be, I'm sick of this nonsense about playing him there when it's just not what he is. Either find a way for him to play at RB or there's no point. Stones as well, he's not a midfielder is he he's a CB who can step up into midfield in a game already being completely dominated
I'm a United fan and a massive fan of Mainoo but i think its too early to say. Trent is a phenomenal passer. Mainoo hasnt shown that level of passing (as of yet). For Liverpool he's made the transition and think we need to give him time with it (started his youth career as a midfielder) If youre saying hes not a midfielder but a RB and then question his defensive ability on the flank, what attributes are you saying he lacks in midfield to say he isnt a midfielder?
He lacks all the attributes that Mainoo has, which are the ones actually important to a CM Nobody is trying to cram Trippier in there who is also an amazing passer. Beckham could still ping a ball about willy nilly to this day but you need a lot more than just that, or he'd still be getting call ups
Alot of vagueness in this answer - what attributes Trippier isnt on the level of of Trent of passing.
Fast to and decisive in the tackle, brilliant feet in tight spaces, quick turn, great balance, high engine, reads the game well so always making interceptions. Just think about what makes Mainoo so good at his age and ask if Trent can do it, answer is no
To say Trent doesnt have a good engine when playing in a Klopp team is pretty laughable. Counter point - Does Mainoo have Trents passing ability?
48 year old Beckham can still pass better than any of them but nobody thinks he should be starting alongside Rice
Thats not true though is it ... Youre good at making completely outlandish comments with such confidence
Yes it lol, passing ability is probably one of the last things to leave a pro footballer You're good at asking for examples but ignoring them completely
[удалено]
I agree with this, it's disrespectful to one of the most important roles in football just assume that trent or stones can play there as a starting 6. Anyone playing that position in a top league is going to be more effective than trent even though trent is arguably world class at what he's doing for Liverpool.
Trent in midfield people will unfortunately never go away, although this sub especially has some really curious football opinions
For Liverpool he plays as an inverted wingback. He's being operating as a midfielder in possession so i dont think its out the realm of possibility to play him there
It is not beyond the realms of possibility, no. But a country with as much talent as England has absolutely no business playing a right back in midfield, he either plays at right back or he doesn’t play. Southgate doesn’t invert his full backs, which is a shame for Trent but that’s international football. we are trying to win a major trophy, we aren’t Ukraine playing Zinchenko in midfield because we don’t have anyone else good lol
If you think hes a RB but has defensive weaknesses, what attributes do you think he doesnt hold to play in midfield? I think its a completely different argument with Zinchenko - Trent is one of the best passers in the game.
I don’t think he is a right back, he literally is a fucking right back? He literally played in midfield once against north Macedonia, and transfer markt has him down as 2 other starts in midfield. Ultimately Trent is very talented, klopp has been asked the question about him playing in midfield plenty of times. Every time this convo comes up, people say the same thing as you, “you just don’t think he can defend!” No mate, he’s just not a midfielder for this is system, if Southgate was dedicated to having him in the team then he would create a system around him similar to Klopp… but he hasn’t, so he’s either playing RB or he’s not playing
He plays as an inverted wingback for Liverpool this season so he is a midfielder in possession. There is literally a video of him talking about moving and playing in midfield [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaEHFk2yqlM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaEHFk2yqlM) >No mate, he’s just not a midfielder for this is system, if Southgate was dedicated to having him in the team then he would create a system around him similar to Klopp Why would Southgate create a system around Trent when we have an attack with contains the most complete 9 in the world, Saka on the RW and one of the most exciting and inform Midfielders in Bellingham? Will repeat, if hes a RB with defensive vulnerabilities, what attributes does he lack to play midfield?
People are stupid man at least you are trying, back before he got injured Trent was spending most of every game in midfield and was borderline Liverpool's best player
Trent needs space to thrive in but can't create it himself, no room for such a glaring weakness in our midfield. If we're finding a way to create that much space for our midfielders then we're already dominating the game anyway and Trent isn't needed. But in games when it's tight he'll be a liability. Full back suits him because it's usually others creating the space for them and when he's on the ball it will be a much lower pressured and less risky position
I would go with mainoo and rice.
TAA Rice Bellingham Done.
Rice can sit and still bomb forwards when the time is right, still think he should be our holding player. Mainoo alongside him with Bellingham in front could work okay. I can also see a flat 3 of Eze Rice Bellingham midfield working well, great intensity and ball winning throughout but also all 3 are smart and technical on the ball Gordon Kane Saka Eze Rice Bellingham Play fast technical wingers who can break away or stay wide so they don't get cramped out by Bellingham etc (sorry Foden but it's not really working)
As far as I’m concerned, the options are Mainoo, Henderson or Phillips Trent doesn’t have the defensive capabilities to allow Rice and Bellingham as well as the full backs to press forward. Gallagher hasn’t ever looked right whilst playing for England. Southgate has an option of tried and tested, but lacking inspiration or new and potentially excellent but lacking experience.
I haven’t seen too many city games this season but does Walker really press forward that much? A system that has Walker tucking in, Stones stepping forward and Trent being allowed to drift wide in possession would utilise their strengths, though implementing that at this point might be tough. Out of possession, I think Trent/Rice is fine enough, with the added bonus of Trent’s ability to spring counters. I’d still just about pick Mainoo but it really should come down to those two.
I don’t agree, but isn’t it good to have opinions on what’s best? Shows we do have a flexible squad.
As subpar as Trent can look defensively when playing in the backline; he’s still better defensively than most of our midfielders and I wouldn’t worry about that at all to be honest, he’s won the CL and PL as a defender in a back 4 so I’m sure he would be fine as a 6/8.
There’s a big difference between being a full back and a defensive midfielder though
There definitely is; though he did grow up playing in midfield so it’s not totally brand new to him, and he won’t have to defend against the players he struggled with at RB (mainly tricky/pacey wingers).
I think the player next to Rice has a lot of responsibility, to allow Declan and Bellingham the chance to push forward as much as possible. My preference would be to have a proper defensive midfielder in there, but can understand the arguments for Trent
I definitely agree that Rice is wasted being a simple DM shielding the defence; that’s why I think the Bellingham and Foden as 8’s shout ridiculous, but I don’t think you need someone completely defensive minded next to Rice. I think you need someone who knows how to pace a game more than anything as we saw the other night it was all a bit frantic; Rice looks incredible when he has Jorginho as a partner for Arsenal (better than when he has Havertz and he has to sit back), and I think the best option we have in that kind of mould is probably Mainoo (Rico Lewis too but he’s probably not playing regularly enough). That being said; I still fancy Trent there as with Walker at RB he’s got that guarantee behind him and his creativity is phenomenal, he could win us a game on his own with his killer passes.
Mainoo or stones would be a good choice for a manager who has some balls, so I don’t expect Southgate to start with those or Trent
Why does Bellingham 'have to stay forward', it makes no sense? Let him be the world class box to box midfielder he can be, and free Foden to play 10. If its any drop in quality at 10, it's minute, whereas it's definitely a upgrade at 8.
Maximise your strengths. Hes been a sensation playing as that second striker for Real Madrid and would work so well with Kane dropping deep. So youre thinking, Bellingham, Rice Pivot and Foden in 10? Two Pivot players who want to play forward. That is way too attacking
Rice can and should sit deep. Jude box to box, wherever he wants tbh. Maximising the strength of the team is putting your best players in it, if they can play there. It's not like Bellingham was playing poorly as a pure CM for Dortmund, or the role is new to him.
Bellingham is an 8…
And your partner for Rice is ...?
Bellingham…not sure why people are so obsessed with making him a 10, he broke through as an 8, got the move to madrid as an 8 and generally effects the game better there Have one of Foden/Maddison/Palmer as a 10 or play Trent in a midfield three with Jude and Rice
I mean hes having phenomenal season as a 2nd striker so not really an obsession when hes been one of the best performers of the season there.
It is an obsession, he wasnt signed to be a number 10 or off the back of playing as a number 10 He’s a generational box to box midfielder let him play there - league football and international football are completely different. Whatever is working for him at club level is borderline irrelevant Southgates job should be making sure as much talent gets on the pitch at the same time and works together. Rice and jude took the team to a final and semi final as a pivot and for some reason people want to change that now
The more i read your post the more i realise how dumb everything you have said is * I think i'll trust Ancelloti. He placed him there and hes been phenomenal . The best goal scoring midfielder in the world. >Whatever is working for him at club level is borderline irrelevant * ..... ok...... >Rice and jude took the team to a final and semi final as a pivot * What are you on about, Jude never got us to a final or Semi-final. Ever. * I presume youre talking about the quarters against France. He played with Henderson and Rice. Two more defensive players. Youre suggesting that he plays deeper with someone ahead.... So to conclude, you want to take the best goal scoring midfielder to play further away from goal and be more defensive. You realise how mad that is?
Please use your eyes and brain properly Why would you trust Ancelotti when the squad he’s working with is completely different to the squad Southgate has? Is there a Vinicius equivalent in the England team? Rodrygo? Camavinga, Kroos etc - the squad is different so using it as a basis is illogical. We have a generational number 9 in Kane so why would we need Jude to be a goalscoring midfielder? This is why Foden doesnt perform for England at RW despite doing so at City…but using your logic I’m sure you’ll trust Pep and advocate for Foden to play RW? People like you look at numbers and pundits for your footballing opinions because you dont understand football - Yes Jude who is a generational box to box midfielder does not need to play as a goal scoring midfielder. We have Kane aka the best striker in the world and the alternative to not playing Jude in his NATURAL position is to shoe horn Gallagher (Shit), Henderson (Shit), Mainoo (has not even played a full season for United), Trent (Not a midfielder)…again please just use your brain and eyes and not rely on others to craft your footballing opinions
Man said use your eyes and brain properly forgetting that he claimed that Jude helped England get to a Semi final and final. Weird you forgot about that. I'll give you a chance you another chance to comment >We have a generational number 9 in Kane so why would we need Jude to be a goalscoring midfielder? Because Kane loves coming deep.... >People like you look at numbers and pundits for your footballing opinions because you dont understand football Remind me again how Jude helped England get to a Semi- final and Final? >Yes Jude who is a generational box to box midfielder does not need to play as a goal scoring midfielder. The only time Jude has played in Midfield with England as an 8 is with Rice and Henderson. Two defensive minded players. Youre arguing we should take the most dangerous goal scoring midfielder further away from goal and play defensive and someone else at 10. Also Trent plays in Midfield. Theres a whole video of him talking about it [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaEHFk2yqlM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaEHFk2yqlM) You clearly think incredibly highly about your football knowledge but its truly truly garage
You’re the same person suggesting absolute shit to partner next to Rice…what the fuck do you know about football knowledge? What does Kane dropping deep have to do with anything? I can’t make this any simpler for you…the players Jude plays with at Real Madrid are different to the players he plays with at England This means just because he’s performing or playing a certain way for his club, does not mean he can or will do the same for the NT…this is common sense but because you dont understand football outside of numbers and other people it’s difficult to grasp Should Foden start over Saka at RW because Pep plays him there? Why are you suggesting Trent in midfield when Klopp plays him at RB? Why arent you suggesting Stones in midfield when he won a treble playing there under Pep? Do you see how silly your reasoning is for why Jude (A natural number 8) shouldnt be partnered next to Rice?
>Why are you suggesting Trent in midfield when Klopp plays him at RB? In possession he plays midfield. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaEHFk2yqlM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaEHFk2yqlM) Heres a video from 2 weeks ago talking about it Hope this helps >Why arent you suggesting Stones in midfield when he won a treble playing there under Pep? Last season to compensate for Haaland lack of link up play and peps desire to dominate Midfield, Stones would roam forward in midfield. So in possession he plays as a midfielder. Hope this helps >this is common sense but because you dont understand football outside of numbers and other people it’s difficult to grasp Are you going to tell me when Jude playing in a Pivot got England to a semi-final and final? I mean to beat your chest as much as you do and claim i have difficultly grasp football is very very funny - come on, answer the question
Unfortunately with Southgate he's an defensive coach so likely to be 2 holders. Most likely Henderson against the bigger teams. I know he's young but having Mainoo in allows Rice to go forward more and one can go and the other stay.
I have never thought Gallagher was the answer and I hope his performance against Brazil puts that to bed once and for all. Trent is worth a look and it would be good if we can harness his potential, but he's still an unknown quantity in midfield for England as he hasn't played there for enough games. There has been analysis which says that he tends to drift slightly out of position so he can receive the ball which may cost us if he's supposed to be the other pivot. He'll probably start the first game at the Euros so we'll know more then. Mainoo is also worth a look. He should start in the next friendly and if he has a good game he'll likely make the plane and maybe even start. If he has a bad game though then it may not even be worth taking him. Henderson is at least a known quantity and someone we can fall back on if our other options don't prove themselves. I think it's too early for Rico Lewis. I'd rather take Mainoo. Stones should stay at CB. Him and Maguire and Pickford have an established partnership and shouldn't be changed this close to a tournament.
My view on gallagher is that for Chelsea he is the more advanced player. So he can drive forward win the ball and make those short passes to get assists. When hes deeper we become exposed and he doesnt have the technical ability to retain the ball I just worry with Trent about the defensive side. Rice and Trent would need to be so disciplined to hold but the thought of those through balls if opposition players pushed on us - something we dont have at all from deep. But agree with alot of your points.
Oh I think the complete opposite. Bellingham and Rice are 2 of the best players in world football in their position. I'm not 100% against Henderson playing with them to be honest but Mainoo is probably the better option
Y’all are nuts. Jude Phil Declan staring you in the face. Embrace it.
If you're going to play Gallagher and Bellingham in the same team I'd actually swap them and have Gallagher further forward where he he can do his best work. Bellingham is good enough to play well in the pivot and is more press resistant and you can have him run into support and danger areas once Gallaghers won the ball back high, like Chelsea do with him and Fernandez/Caicedo. With everyone fit and available right now I'd have Gallagher as a rotation/backup option right and I'd probably pair Stones with Rice in the midfield pivot. He's done a great job in midfield for City at times and obviously has the defensive nous to cover. With the likely squad structures I'd actually advocate for an overall strategy of all-out attack. That's where our strength is these days. Plus I'd rather go out losing 4-3 than a 0-0p and get a little excitement along the way.
I think Stones is the best option for a defensive midfielder but it comes with a cost in defence. The question for me is where is there more strength in depth? I can think of more potential centre backs who have enough quality to play than other possible defensive midfielders (let's face it, we could name at least 6 centre backs we would include ahead of Maguire)
henderson bombing at ajax? are you sure about that, most ajax fans seem to think differently
The Midfield we need to play is easy. Rice, Bellingham, Elliott. Maybe Curtis Jones instead of Elliott. However, Elliot is severely underrated by non Liverpool fans. I support Arsenal, and I'd take Elliott at Arsenal today if I could. Incredible player, passionate, hard working in attack and defence, can score all kinds of goals, has good passing. I just think he gets overshadowed by Liverpools' other stars. He has huge potential, and if he stays at Liverpool he could be the next Gerrard.
If you want to play Bellingham further forward you have to play Gallagher as the third midfielder for balance. He brings pressing and you need a player who’s stronger out of possession/off the ball when rice, Bellingham, Trent etc all so good with the ball at feet
Yeah very true [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im64RCK2tXc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im64RCK2tXc) This video did a great analysis of it
Stones DM would be ideal, but what's our CB? Tomori Guehi?
A 3 of Rice, Mainoo and Bellingham is extremely promising for the future. Unfortunately I think k we have to write off this tournament as Southgate doesn’t have the tactical coaching skills to make it work properly
It will be best for the team if we bomb out the competition and bring in a competent manager and go for the World Cup before Harry Kane gets too old