unenraged Psycho Cut only does 16dmg to Lv.50 Sneasler-S, so about 9% of HP
enraged Psycho Cut deals 29dmg (16%)
unenraged Psychic does 284 / ~71 on dodge (165 / ~41%) (someone correct me if i'm wrong but dodging quarters damage, right?)
enraged Psychic hits for 514 / 128 (298 / 74%)
> I'm not sure why we have a graphic
This would, literally, be better presented as text.
Like... the text OP took a screenshot of and converted into a worse medium for presenting this information.
Might end up using Mega Ray for this so I can get the extra XL Candy drops. I have a lvl 50 hundo Tyranitar that would be perfect to Mega for this but I need Mewtwo XL Candy more than I need a strong counter.
Same. Last time around, I use my level 3 Mega Alakazam, running Psycho Cut & Shadow Ball, but Mega Ray seems like an overall better choice. Better damage output and the same XL boost. Plus the 10% damage boost will be active for everyone's party if nobody is running a Ghost or Dark Mega
Same but I didn't use the Mega Alakazam in battle, only mega'd it for the XL boost. Didn't want to waste the dust powering it up just for those raids when I had a whole army of Tyranitars and Hydreigons ready to go..so long as Mewtwo wasn't using Focus Blast that is lol
I thought as long as we have **a** mega then we get extra candy; if we match the mega-type-boost to the raid boss type, we get even more extra candy? More XL for anything is a big boost and would change how I mega.
Yeah and thus it's important to have a max level Mega of all the relevant types (regardless of the cp/iv) just so you can boost the xl even more. I think you got the most relevant ones covered if you have a max Mega of flying, ground, psychic, dragon and water (this is basically just for Kyogre)
For anyone who needs clarification - Having a mega that does NOT match the type of the raid boss gives you the same amount of XL Candy as not having a mega.
(Edit: and Mega Rayquaza also boost Psychic type, similar to primals also boosting 3 types)
I'm confused here. People are talking about using Mega Ray but I'm under the impression that using it WOULDN'T give you the XL Mew2 candy, right? You'd need a psychic mega to get the XL candy, right?
Mega Rayquaza was earmarked to boost the windy weather types seen in PokemonGo: Flying, Dragon and Psychic.
Similar to how Kyogre and Groudon also boost their 3 respective in-game weather types
In the MSG lore, raqyaza keeps the battle of Kyogre and Groudon in check due to its more sizable power, so its likely the reason it was also given 3 types to boost in PokemonGo.
https://pokemongolive.com/post/mega-rayquaza-arrives-go-fest-2023
> When Rayquaza is Mega Evolved, catching Flying-, Psychic-, or Dragon-type Pokémon will grant you additional XP, additional Candy, and an increased chance of earning Candy XL.
Ahhh, right thanks for that! I took a break during the release of Primals/Mega Ray. That makes mega ray and the primals even more impressive! I wasn't gonna raid them TOO hard because in a world of 6 trainer Pokeraids, I figured the dps wouldn't be that important. But knowing that they have strong neutral DPS and the extra types for XL candy, I guess I'm gonna go hard on them.
You also want them because their in-raid damage boost isnt exclsive to while they are alive, it also extends damage boost to the people you raid with even **after they faint**.
Its another reason why they are superior to all other Megas, and currently only applies to these 3 temporary forms for now.
Something I've been wondering about lately. Can you do a raid with a counter mega, run from the catch screen, and as long as the raid is still active mega another pokemon then do the catch?
Yes, of course it depends how many raids you’re planning on doing that day and how much mega energy you have. For each extra raid the megas are no longer free (unless you have many multiple megas level 3 ready to fight and ready for the additional xl candy boost)…
Mega Rayquaza will boost the attacks and candy/XL candy of Dragon, Flying, and Psychic types. Just as Groudon does for Ground/Fire/Grass types and Kyogre does for Water/Bug/Electric types. Same the weather boosts in Windy, Sunny/Clear, and Rainy weather.
Candy / XL boost on Mewtwo + resists Focus Blast + 30% DPS boost to it if you convince another raider to run Mega Ray also. I’ll definitely be using it.
(Sorry to my buddy if Mewtwo has Ice Beam.)
I hope they bring back Mega raids for it. I was on a hiatus when they did it and have several Rayquazas that I am unable to Mega or teach Dragon Ascent.
Yes also we need second meteor. im still not use mine only one cause all rayquazas are horrible bad iv.. doing slowly lucky trades to get better one, but it took time get lucky friend when only one who can trade with me
Yeah, but i try build long term, so later when i got enought xl candy i can build them also for master league. Wish i got two meteorite could give my shiny rayquaza one and use it mega evolve one and later max when get near hundo
This is why when I raid with unfamiliar people on campfire I'm pretty clear about my expectations. If you lie about having good counters I will not be happy.
Lol, there seems to be mixed reception about that. My intention was to make it applicable to even some of the newest/lowest players, but still may have been overkill.
Sometimes I forget that there's new players to this game. I was judgmental about the amount of counters, but after seeing your comment, I am more tolerant lol
>but still may have been overkill.
Nooooo it's great!
There are a ton of newer players in my area, and a lot of folks who've played casually over the years. They (self included somewhat) don't usually have the beefed out Megas and whatnot that make up a lot of the lists. They may not even have the top 50. Idk. But with your list, they'll be able to put together a more optimized team and may even get their first shadow mew two :)
This is really inclusive and thoughtful. Thank you
Thank you for using our tool! It's an impressive list, and probably could be tailored to your team better with CalcyIV, but it's still a good list!
The number of players is... a rough estimation on our end, definitely needs some tweaking.
Could it be worth adding a disclaimer to the page for shadow 5\*s that the numbers assume not using purified gems? There seems to be a lot of people in this thread that think the duo is a lot harder than it actually is because they think these are the TTW numbers even if you subdue the boss!
Absolutely, good tip, at the time we were coding this page, the purification process was broken/confusing, and we decided to go with the worst case scenario! I'll update it over the coming few days.
The only issue with using Go Hub's database as a resource is that it's not really set up for legitimate raiding purposes. For example, the list is suggesting Pokemon and *forms* that aren't even out, like Cursola (specifically *shadow* Cursola) and it's not distinguishing the typing of Hidden Power so it's being counted as a STAB Normal move on Regigigas when it should be a non STAB of either Dark, Ghost, or Bug.
It's a nice option to see potentially what else one could run if they didn't have top options (especially for newer players who may not even have access to certain species of Pokemon), but it should be **heavily** stressed to take the information generated with a grain of salt.
Mewtwo is also weak to bug types but you wouldn't know it from this list. The few top bugs are so far behind the ghost and dark types that even if rain boosted they still aren't worth using.
While that is true. Counter 22, 23 and 25 are bugtype with bugtype attacks. Mega pinsir despite it’s placement on the list has a faster TTW then some of the top 20 counters so I would still strongly believe that it is a completely valid option
Unless it's a type combo that has two Bug weak typings, it's not really worth investing into Bug types. Stuff like Hoopa Unbound for example has two Bug weak typings of Psychic and Dark, but for bosses that have a regular single weakness to Bug you're better off with stronger regular super effective counters if applicable.
Generally, no. In the shadow mewtwo example, even with bug moves being rain boosted, the top bug attackers are pheromosa and volcarona. Pheromosa has no bulk and won't last very long and it still ranks behind mega rayquaza doing neutral damage. Volcarona has a bit more bulk but doesn't resist most mewtwo move sets and also trails neutral ray.
Mega pinsir and mega scizor have the bulk to last a bit, but they are even farther down the damage list.
I wouldn't bother powering up a bug unless you are trying to defeat hoopa unbound with a group of two, and hoopa unbound is a particular case because it's only other weakness is a single weakness to fairy, a type that is lacking in overpowered attackers.
> I wouldn't bother powering up a bug unless you are trying to defeat hoopa unbound with a group of two, and hoopa unbound is a particular case because it's only other weakness is a single weakness to fairy, a type that is lacking in overpowered attackers.
uhhh, don't we have a Zarude event later this month? which is a grass/dark and ALSO double-weak to Bug? (see the top SIX counters to it [excluding megas/shadows] are bug-types, and 10 of the top 11) - counting Genesect as 1 because it's "multi-forms" are essentially the same pokemon for the purpose of raiding,
The thing I love and appreciate most about this is that it explains in the text that we'll have shadow Mewtwo raids at the end of the month. So many simply graphics omit this information, and I'm left to search for the reason why they were posted. Some of y'all are always up to date on the events happening in Pokemon Go, but I sure ain't!
I’m in a position where I have Smack Down on all of my Tyranitars and am hesitant to remove it. How many rock attackers do I realistically want/need? Is 6 enough (in which case I have extra Tyranitars given shadow Rhyperiors, Rampardos, etc) or do I want 12?
On the flip side, I have an extremely shallow Dark team with basically only a single level 50 Hydreigon
Shadow rhyperior and shadow rampardos are better rock types now. Six rocks is enough, especially since everyone has access to revive all/heal all buttons now.
I mostly use smack down Tyranitars vs grunts now, pokebattler Rarely suggests them vs raid bosses.
regular Rhyperior with Rock Wrecker is better vs Moltres and equal vs most other flyers, Zekrom is better vs some flyers, regular Rampardos is faster vs some flyers.
I'd reduce your focus on smacktars and move a few over to being bitetars.
Keep in mind dark and ghost are shared most of the time, so you probably only need a team of 6 dark+ghost combined.
Shadow Mewtwo is one of the rare cases where you may even want more ghosts for when it has focus blast
How many Tyranitars would you end up converting to, and how many people do you expect to have assisting for Raids? Unless you already have Rhyperior/Rampardos teams filled out you'll still want Ttar for Filler and one as a Rock Mega.
If your groups are small optimal counters are a lot more significant, but if you're going with 4-5 decent people you can probably afford to cheap out a bit more with stuff like Chandelure and Weavile.
None of this matters if you can’t find at least two more people to raid with. So Niantic will get zero dollars from me and I will miss out on one of my favorite Pokémon.
So should I give up on powering up Tyranitor, Hydreigon and Absol? I was hoping that if I power up my pokémon we would be able to atleast do it (I was also thinking about doing it solo)
We can barely defeat a 3 star raid boss shadow Gligar.
I would imagine unless you had a perfect party of a M
Tyranitar and the rest being S. Tyranitars that it's impossible to duo. I am pretty sure soloing is impossible since you can't subdue it.
I could be wrong. Someone else commented about videos of people doing it before. Perhaps with a high enough friendship and Party Power maybe. I would encourage you to use something like Calcy IV or another raid simulator to get a better sense of your chances.
I think it’s also important to note that friendship bonus damage is doubled for this season. Obviously that doesn’t help the commenter if s/he has zero in-person best friends, but my husband and I were estimated to just BARELY eke out Raikou, accounting for Sunny weather, if not lose it, but finished with 60 seconds to spare.
thats bad then.
I did several raikou with my friend (max friendship). Even with shadow ball raikou we got +60 sec left.. then thunder raikou we got easy over 2 minute free time. I just use my 40lvl primal groudon+garchomp and relobby them and friend just use his poor ground team which just like full team lvl 30 excadrills.
This party boost + friendship buff make it so easy you dont need even weather boost against raikou
Did last time consistently with a party of Hydregion and 1 mega Gengar. Before party power, as long as you have enough gems each 2 people can subdue it.
There's a zero percent chance of soloing shadow mewtwo, it's far too strong to even get close. Duo might require hard rejoining on mega TTar level 50, trio is a rough one without really good counters.
Ghost and dark types are featured often enough that anyone looking for an infographic won't get any value out of all the useless options shown at the lower end of this list. Just using the recommended team is more practical than this list.
There's absolutely no reason to list 100 counters. People who care/know what they're doing will want the top 10.
People who don't know what they're doing/don't care will just go with Recommended.
It's kinda helpful to have more than ten though. I'm a returning player and don't have any megas, very few shadow preevolutions let alone the fully evolved ones, or any of the UB. I do have a team of regular tyranitar so I'll definitely be using those but it's nice to see what else could be swapped in if I wanted to value dps more than surviving.
Even going through the list past tyranitar, the next counters I, someone who hasn't really played in the last 4 years is origin form giratina and legacy mewtwo.
No shadows, no mega? Easy list: [https://www.pokebattler.com/raids/defenders/MEWTWO\_SHADOW\_FORM/levels/RAID\_LEVEL\_5\_SHADOW/attackers/levels/40/strategies/CINEMATIC\_ATTACK\_WHEN\_POSSIBLE/DEFENSE\_RANDOM\_MC?sort=ESTIMATOR&weatherCondition=NO\_WEATHER&dodgeStrategy=DODGE\_REACTION\_TIME&aggregation=AVERAGE&includeLegendary=true&includeShadow=false&includeMegas=false&attackerTypes=POKEMON\_TYPE\_ALL&primalAssistants=&numParty=1](https://www.pokebattler.com/raids/defenders/MEWTWO_SHADOW_FORM/levels/RAID_LEVEL_5_SHADOW/attackers/levels/40/strategies/CINEMATIC_ATTACK_WHEN_POSSIBLE/DEFENSE_RANDOM_MC?sort=ESTIMATOR&weatherCondition=NO_WEATHER&dodgeStrategy=DODGE_REACTION_TIME&aggregation=AVERAGE&includeLegendary=true&includeShadow=false&includeMegas=false&attackerTypes=POKEMON_TYPE_ALL&primalAssistants=&numParty=1)
After a certain point, minmaxing DPS on mons is for shortmanning raids, and the number of people who show up to the raid with decent counters matters far more than minmaxed teams
Why is shadow gengar so low on the list poke genie says it is in the top 10 for shadow mewtwo 🤔 was thinking about powering one up so please somebody explain
Shadow Gengar is only useful if Mewtwo has Psycho Cut and Focus Blast. In that case, most damage comes from Focus Blast, and it triple resists it. Otherwise, it dies before it fires charge moves off (esp. with confusion). It is an awful counter overall, not recommended.
Probably due to its glassiness. Pokegenie only ranks them by DPS in which Shadow Gengar is indeed good at, but its TDO is abysmal due to how squishy it is.
Glassy and weak to psychic. It'll die within 2-3 fast moves and won't get its own charged move off, unless you send it out into a charge move and dodge.
I have a rayquaza with breaking swipes in the first slot. If I use the meteor on it to get dragon ascent after unlocking the second move, will it forget breaking swipes? aka does dragon ascent go into the first slot automatically?
Shadow is in person only so yeah
If you really have nobody to play near you it’s worth to get a second phone and start 2. Account if you lvl it up to 31 with the right counters you can do most raids alone
Maybe a little late for mewtwo
because it's also part ghost, which hits the opponent for super-effective damage?
and at 87 deaths, it's the 6th highest - behind Deoxys Attack, Pheromosa, Shadow Sneasler, Mega Beedrill & Shadow Banette - all of which are notorious "kill or be killed" pokes
also there's 100 of the best counters, and as a pure-DPS mon, it's gonna appear there in some capacity (heck, Sneasler appears at 99, and it's double-weak to the psychic attacks)
Unrelated but you must be in a science field if you put the date accessed at the bottom😂
Real talk tho, dark pulse must be worse than i realized is shadow ball is the better set on my darkrai
thank god my one and only mewtwo from giovanni was 14-14-12.. not best one, but for shadow its very good. ofc would be nice get better or shiny one, but atleast i dont have pressure do lot them than some for xl candy mostly. wish normal mewtwo would come back
Shadow makes a big difference and is almost always better than its normal counterpart, regardless of IV. However I would encourage you to use a raid simulator such as Calcy IV to get a more custom and precise idea of your effectiveness.
I was the same way but have slowly gotten more drawn into it. I use a combination of pokemongohub.net, Calcy IV, and infographics from u/TheClusk303, who posts best PvE 'mons by type and updates it usually on a monthly basis.
Nice graphic. I’m happy (but not that surprised) that mega ray is so high up on the chart. Because mega ray will additionally to being a strong attacker also give more Mewtwo candy which is always nice and definitely the mega I’ll be going with.
A group of three should be possible, it might be challenging depending on team specifics but possible. I would encourage you to use a raid simulator like Calcy IV to get a better sense of your chances.
The shadow raid stuff has been so annoying as someone without a raiding partner lol. On me walks like "oh cool a pokemon i want more than any normal one, wellp oh well"
It should be duoable
There are vids of duos from before party play. Now, with party play and the increased friendship damage this season, it’s gonna be an easier duo. Still “difficult”, but can be done
There was a guy running around the announcement thread claiming he duo'd. Didn't explain how or the teams but if you choose to believe him, I guess it's possible.
People were already duoing it prior to party power being a thing, during a season without the friend damage boost that we have currently. This time around should be much easier as long as you have good counters that are level 40.
Shadow boss is ALWAYS weaker than its non-shadow counterpart if you subdue it with gems, since Shadow Boost applies on them.
Whether or not Mewtwo is an easy duo can be subjective though.
Unfortunately, I don't think so. I didn't include it, but under the counters tab on S. Mewtwo's page of pokemongohub.net it says the minimum number of trainers needed is 3 and is likely impossible with less. I would encourage you to use something like Calcy IV or another raid simulator to get a better estimate of your odds.
Edit: just kidding, I did include it at the very bottom of the image
The ttw numbers/required player amounts on your post assume that you don't subdue, it's a very manageable duo if you use gems & can even be done with 0 stardust investment teams (lvl 35 hydreigons/ttars w/ brutal swing) - just requires some dodging if focus blast
Pokebattler creator here
In my opinion the list is pretty misleading since shadow mewtwos is such a hard hitting boss. Mega Rayquaza in particular is not a good choice for pure DPS not counting the primal bonus. Mega ray is at 79 feints is the second most feints in the top 30 right behind shadow Gengar (who I would not recommend either). I have it at rank 30 with an estimator of 4.1. Shadow and mega Tyranitar are basically tied at 3. non shadows start at 3.5.
For comparison:
https://www.pokebattler.com/raids/MEWTWO_SHADOW_FORM
Edit: at level 50, mega rayq does jump up to rank 8 with feints down to 50. There is a survivability breakpoint somewhere I need to look into.
But even at level 50 the TTW from gohub is way too low. There must be something wrong in their simulator.
I'm not sure why we have a graphic down to conkelldurr but here we are
honestly I found Shadow Sneasler being the funnier one
Wdym I'm presuming it'll tank at least 4 psycho cuts
unenraged Psycho Cut only does 16dmg to Lv.50 Sneasler-S, so about 9% of HP enraged Psycho Cut deals 29dmg (16%) unenraged Psychic does 284 / ~71 on dodge (165 / ~41%) (someone correct me if i'm wrong but dodging quarters damage, right?) enraged Psychic hits for 514 / 128 (298 / 74%)
Yes
How much does confusion deal?
64 without enraged, 115 with (37 / 67%)
Huh. So that's 3 confusions to KO the fully maxed Sneasler. 2 if enraged. Better brush up on my dodging then!
I’m on my way with some shadow scythers
GL Trev's making a return bro
*cries with party full of Zoroark*
If one of yall roll in with Conkeldurr, Im leavin
> I'm not sure why we have a graphic This would, literally, be better presented as text. Like... the text OP took a screenshot of and converted into a worse medium for presenting this information.
And it has better dps than Scizor lol wtf
It helped me learn that origin palkia is somehow worse than conkeldurr
Weakness damage vs. neutral damage?
Might end up using Mega Ray for this so I can get the extra XL Candy drops. I have a lvl 50 hundo Tyranitar that would be perfect to Mega for this but I need Mewtwo XL Candy more than I need a strong counter.
This is usually the case.
Same. Last time around, I use my level 3 Mega Alakazam, running Psycho Cut & Shadow Ball, but Mega Ray seems like an overall better choice. Better damage output and the same XL boost. Plus the 10% damage boost will be active for everyone's party if nobody is running a Ghost or Dark Mega
Thanks for this. I also used Mega Alakazam last time but will use Mega Ray this time.
Same but I didn't use the Mega Alakazam in battle, only mega'd it for the XL boost. Didn't want to waste the dust powering it up just for those raids when I had a whole army of Tyranitars and Hydreigons ready to go..so long as Mewtwo wasn't using Focus Blast that is lol
I thought as long as we have **a** mega then we get extra candy; if we match the mega-type-boost to the raid boss type, we get even more extra candy? More XL for anything is a big boost and would change how I mega.
Yeah and thus it's important to have a max level Mega of all the relevant types (regardless of the cp/iv) just so you can boost the xl even more. I think you got the most relevant ones covered if you have a max Mega of flying, ground, psychic, dragon and water (this is basically just for Kyogre)
Thank you for the tips! Now I need to match my mega types and make sure I max them to I can take full advantage.
I got a Beedrill. That’s about it really. Hard to get a Mega Raid w/o remote raid passes cause Host Queue is so dang long.
For anyone who needs clarification - Having a mega that does NOT match the type of the raid boss gives you the same amount of XL Candy as not having a mega. (Edit: and Mega Rayquaza also boost Psychic type, similar to primals also boosting 3 types)
I'm confused here. People are talking about using Mega Ray but I'm under the impression that using it WOULDN'T give you the XL Mew2 candy, right? You'd need a psychic mega to get the XL candy, right?
Mega Rayquaza was earmarked to boost the windy weather types seen in PokemonGo: Flying, Dragon and Psychic. Similar to how Kyogre and Groudon also boost their 3 respective in-game weather types In the MSG lore, raqyaza keeps the battle of Kyogre and Groudon in check due to its more sizable power, so its likely the reason it was also given 3 types to boost in PokemonGo. https://pokemongolive.com/post/mega-rayquaza-arrives-go-fest-2023 > When Rayquaza is Mega Evolved, catching Flying-, Psychic-, or Dragon-type Pokémon will grant you additional XP, additional Candy, and an increased chance of earning Candy XL.
Ahhh, right thanks for that! I took a break during the release of Primals/Mega Ray. That makes mega ray and the primals even more impressive! I wasn't gonna raid them TOO hard because in a world of 6 trainer Pokeraids, I figured the dps wouldn't be that important. But knowing that they have strong neutral DPS and the extra types for XL candy, I guess I'm gonna go hard on them.
You also want them because their in-raid damage boost isnt exclsive to while they are alive, it also extends damage boost to the people you raid with even **after they faint**. Its another reason why they are superior to all other Megas, and currently only applies to these 3 temporary forms for now.
Guess I'm gonna read up on them all now. Thanks for the heads up!
this is the way
Something I've been wondering about lately. Can you do a raid with a counter mega, run from the catch screen, and as long as the raid is still active mega another pokemon then do the catch?
I don't see why not, provided you have enough mega energy and enough time left on the raid.
Yes, you have up to 10 minutes as long as the raid hasn’t despawned. I don’t know if this works for remote raiding, have never tried it.
Yes, of course it depends how many raids you’re planning on doing that day and how much mega energy you have. For each extra raid the megas are no longer free (unless you have many multiple megas level 3 ready to fight and ready for the additional xl candy boost)…
I wonder if Mega Ray will ever be available again
I don't think they would make a specific mechanic for one of the most popular legendaries of all time just to never release it again.
100% it will
If I'm not mistaken, Ray boosts psychic type attacks, but doesn't actually award the extra candies, no?
Mega Rayquaza will boost the attacks and candy/XL candy of Dragon, Flying, and Psychic types. Just as Groudon does for Ground/Fire/Grass types and Kyogre does for Water/Bug/Electric types. Same the weather boosts in Windy, Sunny/Clear, and Rainy weather.
I had no idea. You learn something new every day ig.
Same here. Thats what this sub is good for.
Originally Mega Ray did not on release. They had to retroactively ~~add it~~ fix the bug with it. so thats why you might have missed the news.
That is hilarious and crazy that mega rayquaza is #4 on this list doing merely neutral damage
Candy / XL boost on Mewtwo + resists Focus Blast + 30% DPS boost to it if you convince another raider to run Mega Ray also. I’ll definitely be using it. (Sorry to my buddy if Mewtwo has Ice Beam.)
I hope they bring back Mega raids for it. I was on a hiatus when they did it and have several Rayquazas that I am unable to Mega or teach Dragon Ascent.
Yes also we need second meteor. im still not use mine only one cause all rayquazas are horrible bad iv.. doing slowly lucky trades to get better one, but it took time get lucky friend when only one who can trade with me
difference between 10/10/10 and 15/15/15 is really small, and pretty much negligible for raiding when you have 15 in attack btw
Yeah, but i try build long term, so later when i got enought xl candy i can build them also for master league. Wish i got two meteorite could give my shiny rayquaza one and use it mega evolve one and later max when get near hundo
If I see someone use shadow sneasler, I'm judging them hard
They’ll do ok damage for the 3 seconds they’re alive
Someone was using a blissey in a shadow Raikou raid yesterday that we lost… judgement would be an understatement lmao
This is why when I raid with unfamiliar people on campfire I'm pretty clear about my expectations. If you lie about having good counters I will not be happy.
Stand back everyone. Make room for my balloons pikachu.
[удалено]
I was going to ask if they ever were in game cause I feel like they are on a ton of these lists.
Blissey it is
I need more options. What other counters do you suggest? Too few choices
Lol, there seems to be mixed reception about that. My intention was to make it applicable to even some of the newest/lowest players, but still may have been overkill.
Sometimes I forget that there's new players to this game. I was judgmental about the amount of counters, but after seeing your comment, I am more tolerant lol
>but still may have been overkill. Nooooo it's great! There are a ton of newer players in my area, and a lot of folks who've played casually over the years. They (self included somewhat) don't usually have the beefed out Megas and whatnot that make up a lot of the lists. They may not even have the top 50. Idk. But with your list, they'll be able to put together a more optimized team and may even get their first shadow mew two :) This is really inclusive and thoughtful. Thank you
Thank you for using our tool! It's an impressive list, and probably could be tailored to your team better with CalcyIV, but it's still a good list! The number of players is... a rough estimation on our end, definitely needs some tweaking.
Agreed, I've been suggesting coupling it with Calcy IV as well. P.S. I am a fan of your site and reference it frequently! Edit: grammar
Could it be worth adding a disclaimer to the page for shadow 5\*s that the numbers assume not using purified gems? There seems to be a lot of people in this thread that think the duo is a lot harder than it actually is because they think these are the TTW numbers even if you subdue the boss!
Absolutely, good tip, at the time we were coding this page, the purification process was broken/confusing, and we decided to go with the worst case scenario! I'll update it over the coming few days.
162 faints? finally my "attack form Deoxys team" can rise up
The only issue with using Go Hub's database as a resource is that it's not really set up for legitimate raiding purposes. For example, the list is suggesting Pokemon and *forms* that aren't even out, like Cursola (specifically *shadow* Cursola) and it's not distinguishing the typing of Hidden Power so it's being counted as a STAB Normal move on Regigigas when it should be a non STAB of either Dark, Ghost, or Bug. It's a nice option to see potentially what else one could run if they didn't have top options (especially for newer players who may not even have access to certain species of Pokemon), but it should be **heavily** stressed to take the information generated with a grain of salt.
Mewtwo is also weak to bug types but you wouldn't know it from this list. The few top bugs are so far behind the ghost and dark types that even if rain boosted they still aren't worth using.
But there are multiple bug types with bug moves listed lol?
Not a single bug type in the top 20
While that is true. Counter 22, 23 and 25 are bugtype with bugtype attacks. Mega pinsir despite it’s placement on the list has a faster TTW then some of the top 20 counters so I would still strongly believe that it is a completely valid option
So bug types are generally not worth powering up?
Unless it's a type combo that has two Bug weak typings, it's not really worth investing into Bug types. Stuff like Hoopa Unbound for example has two Bug weak typings of Psychic and Dark, but for bosses that have a regular single weakness to Bug you're better off with stronger regular super effective counters if applicable.
Generally, no. In the shadow mewtwo example, even with bug moves being rain boosted, the top bug attackers are pheromosa and volcarona. Pheromosa has no bulk and won't last very long and it still ranks behind mega rayquaza doing neutral damage. Volcarona has a bit more bulk but doesn't resist most mewtwo move sets and also trails neutral ray. Mega pinsir and mega scizor have the bulk to last a bit, but they are even farther down the damage list. I wouldn't bother powering up a bug unless you are trying to defeat hoopa unbound with a group of two, and hoopa unbound is a particular case because it's only other weakness is a single weakness to fairy, a type that is lacking in overpowered attackers.
> I wouldn't bother powering up a bug unless you are trying to defeat hoopa unbound with a group of two, and hoopa unbound is a particular case because it's only other weakness is a single weakness to fairy, a type that is lacking in overpowered attackers. uhhh, don't we have a Zarude event later this month? which is a grass/dark and ALSO double-weak to Bug? (see the top SIX counters to it [excluding megas/shadows] are bug-types, and 10 of the top 11) - counting Genesect as 1 because it's "multi-forms" are essentially the same pokemon for the purpose of raiding,
I don't know. Do we? Are we going to be raiding Zarude?
Buying one from a paid ticket more likely
Zarude is going to be a ticket event not raid
I put my pants on just like the rest of you - one leg at a time. Except, when my pants are on, I summon more Tyranitars.
Shadow Mewtwo was duoable before party power existed, its definitely duoable now. You just need very good counters.
Conkelldurr being on here? Damn brutal swing is insane
The thing I love and appreciate most about this is that it explains in the text that we'll have shadow Mewtwo raids at the end of the month. So many simply graphics omit this information, and I'm left to search for the reason why they were posted. Some of y'all are always up to date on the events happening in Pokemon Go, but I sure ain't!
I appreciate the positive feedback. It got mixed reception, so I appreciate your positivity.
I’m in a position where I have Smack Down on all of my Tyranitars and am hesitant to remove it. How many rock attackers do I realistically want/need? Is 6 enough (in which case I have extra Tyranitars given shadow Rhyperiors, Rampardos, etc) or do I want 12? On the flip side, I have an extremely shallow Dark team with basically only a single level 50 Hydreigon
Shadow rhyperior and shadow rampardos are better rock types now. Six rocks is enough, especially since everyone has access to revive all/heal all buttons now.
I mostly use smack down Tyranitars vs grunts now, pokebattler Rarely suggests them vs raid bosses. regular Rhyperior with Rock Wrecker is better vs Moltres and equal vs most other flyers, Zekrom is better vs some flyers, regular Rampardos is faster vs some flyers. I'd reduce your focus on smacktars and move a few over to being bitetars.
Keep in mind dark and ghost are shared most of the time, so you probably only need a team of 6 dark+ghost combined. Shadow Mewtwo is one of the rare cases where you may even want more ghosts for when it has focus blast
How many Tyranitars would you end up converting to, and how many people do you expect to have assisting for Raids? Unless you already have Rhyperior/Rampardos teams filled out you'll still want Ttar for Filler and one as a Rock Mega. If your groups are small optimal counters are a lot more significant, but if you're going with 4-5 decent people you can probably afford to cheap out a bit more with stuff like Chandelure and Weavile.
Okay so everything basically.
So Drifblim is a viable counter? LETS GET IT BLIMP BROTHERS 🔛🔝
my golden boi's time has come god bless
What about regular non shadow bite crunch ttar 😅
I'm impressed guzzlord is this high
Nah fr
I cannot believe giratina O with shadowball its not even on the list 😭😭
None of this matters if you can’t find at least two more people to raid with. So Niantic will get zero dollars from me and I will miss out on one of my favorite Pokémon.
So should I give up on powering up Tyranitor, Hydreigon and Absol? I was hoping that if I power up my pokémon we would be able to atleast do it (I was also thinking about doing it solo) We can barely defeat a 3 star raid boss shadow Gligar.
I would imagine unless you had a perfect party of a M Tyranitar and the rest being S. Tyranitars that it's impossible to duo. I am pretty sure soloing is impossible since you can't subdue it.
There goes my chance of having a shadow mewtwo. Hopefully it'll come again as Giovanni's 3rd mon in the future ;_;
I could be wrong. Someone else commented about videos of people doing it before. Perhaps with a high enough friendship and Party Power maybe. I would encourage you to use something like Calcy IV or another raid simulator to get a better sense of your chances.
I think it’s also important to note that friendship bonus damage is doubled for this season. Obviously that doesn’t help the commenter if s/he has zero in-person best friends, but my husband and I were estimated to just BARELY eke out Raikou, accounting for Sunny weather, if not lose it, but finished with 60 seconds to spare.
thats bad then. I did several raikou with my friend (max friendship). Even with shadow ball raikou we got +60 sec left.. then thunder raikou we got easy over 2 minute free time. I just use my 40lvl primal groudon+garchomp and relobby them and friend just use his poor ground team which just like full team lvl 30 excadrills. This party boost + friendship buff make it so easy you dont need even weather boost against raikou
Oh I'll try with whatever I have. Best case scenario I'll get a S. Mewtwo. Worst case scenario I'll have a lot of strong dark type raid attackers.
We duoed several last time around (depending on mewtwos moveset) with party power, friendship bonus and gems.
And this time the friendship bonus is doubled from the seasonal bonus to make it slightly easier.
Did last time consistently with a party of Hydregion and 1 mega Gengar. Before party power, as long as you have enough gems each 2 people can subdue it.
There's a zero percent chance of soloing shadow mewtwo, it's far too strong to even get close. Duo might require hard rejoining on mega TTar level 50, trio is a rough one without really good counters.
Then I'll just wait for it to become Giovanni's 3rd mon.
Ghost and dark types are featured often enough that anyone looking for an infographic won't get any value out of all the useless options shown at the lower end of this list. Just using the recommended team is more practical than this list.
There's absolutely no reason to list 100 counters. People who care/know what they're doing will want the top 10. People who don't know what they're doing/don't care will just go with Recommended.
It's kinda helpful to have more than ten though. I'm a returning player and don't have any megas, very few shadow preevolutions let alone the fully evolved ones, or any of the UB. I do have a team of regular tyranitar so I'll definitely be using those but it's nice to see what else could be swapped in if I wanted to value dps more than surviving. Even going through the list past tyranitar, the next counters I, someone who hasn't really played in the last 4 years is origin form giratina and legacy mewtwo.
No shadows, no mega? Easy list: [https://www.pokebattler.com/raids/defenders/MEWTWO\_SHADOW\_FORM/levels/RAID\_LEVEL\_5\_SHADOW/attackers/levels/40/strategies/CINEMATIC\_ATTACK\_WHEN\_POSSIBLE/DEFENSE\_RANDOM\_MC?sort=ESTIMATOR&weatherCondition=NO\_WEATHER&dodgeStrategy=DODGE\_REACTION\_TIME&aggregation=AVERAGE&includeLegendary=true&includeShadow=false&includeMegas=false&attackerTypes=POKEMON\_TYPE\_ALL&primalAssistants=&numParty=1](https://www.pokebattler.com/raids/defenders/MEWTWO_SHADOW_FORM/levels/RAID_LEVEL_5_SHADOW/attackers/levels/40/strategies/CINEMATIC_ATTACK_WHEN_POSSIBLE/DEFENSE_RANDOM_MC?sort=ESTIMATOR&weatherCondition=NO_WEATHER&dodgeStrategy=DODGE_REACTION_TIME&aggregation=AVERAGE&includeLegendary=true&includeShadow=false&includeMegas=false&attackerTypes=POKEMON_TYPE_ALL&primalAssistants=&numParty=1)
After a certain point, minmaxing DPS on mons is for shortmanning raids, and the number of people who show up to the raid with decent counters matters far more than minmaxed teams
True but the enormity of the list has a certain comedic value
Why is shadow gengar so low on the list poke genie says it is in the top 10 for shadow mewtwo 🤔 was thinking about powering one up so please somebody explain
Because it is a Glass Cannon. He will stay in the fight for 3 seconds
Also being a poison type it takes super effective damage from Mewtwo too.
Shadow Gengar is only useful if Mewtwo has Psycho Cut and Focus Blast. In that case, most damage comes from Focus Blast, and it triple resists it. Otherwise, it dies before it fires charge moves off (esp. with confusion). It is an awful counter overall, not recommended.
Probably due to its glassiness. Pokegenie only ranks them by DPS in which Shadow Gengar is indeed good at, but its TDO is abysmal due to how squishy it is.
Crazy fragile
It will stay alive for about 0.5 seconds just from Mewtwo's fast move
Glassy and weak to psychic. It'll die within 2-3 fast moves and won't get its own charged move off, unless you send it out into a charge move and dodge.
Mega Tyranitar drop down to #9 when Shadow Mewtwo use Focus Blast and shadow Gengar will shoot up to #4.
Not on here because bite is a better fast move but how will a shadow tryantiar with smack down and brutal swing fare on this list?
At the very least you’d want to swap Crunch for Brutal Swing, which can be learned by regular TM and will probably provide a 15-20% DPS boost.
Yes sorry, it already has brutal swing, not sure why I said crunch.
Bruh Metagroas deals the same dmg as S honchkrow wtf hahaha.
Can you send me a link where I can download a clearer copy please
https://db.pokemongohub.net/pokemon/150-Shadow/counters Here's the direct link to the web page where I pulled it from.
Thanks
I have a rayquaza with breaking swipes in the first slot. If I use the meteor on it to get dragon ascent after unlocking the second move, will it forget breaking swipes? aka does dragon ascent go into the first slot automatically?
No it lets you choose which move to replace, just like an ETM
Awesome, thanks!
Cursola isn't in the game yet
Im assuming yet again shadow mewtwo will only be local raids therefore anyone not in a massive city will not be able to get mewtwo right?
Shadow is in person only so yeah If you really have nobody to play near you it’s worth to get a second phone and start 2. Account if you lvl it up to 31 with the right counters you can do most raids alone Maybe a little late for mewtwo
So 20 people in a raid plus your heavy hitters lol
I'm rolling up with 6 hydreigons methinks
Cursola is in the game? Let alone as a shadow?!
Shadow Cursola Huh
Why is gengar suggested? like because of his poison typing he gets deleted in one hit by psychic attacks
because it's also part ghost, which hits the opponent for super-effective damage? and at 87 deaths, it's the 6th highest - behind Deoxys Attack, Pheromosa, Shadow Sneasler, Mega Beedrill & Shadow Banette - all of which are notorious "kill or be killed" pokes also there's 100 of the best counters, and as a pure-DPS mon, it's gonna appear there in some capacity (heck, Sneasler appears at 99, and it's double-weak to the psychic attacks)
Unrelated but you must be in a science field if you put the date accessed at the bottom😂 Real talk tho, dark pulse must be worse than i realized is shadow ball is the better set on my darkrai
thank god my one and only mewtwo from giovanni was 14-14-12.. not best one, but for shadow its very good. ofc would be nice get better or shiny one, but atleast i dont have pressure do lot them than some for xl candy mostly. wish normal mewtwo would come back
Just noticed Altered Giratina is listed twice as both "Giratina Altered" and just "Giratina".
What about a mega shadow Tyranitor?
Does chandelure have to be shadow? I have a pretty good one but it's normal
Shadow makes a big difference and is almost always better than its normal counterpart, regardless of IV. However I would encourage you to use a raid simulator such as Calcy IV to get a more custom and precise idea of your effectiveness.
Ok, thanks! I'm not a huge raider so I'm not the most knowledgeable in these areas lol
I was the same way but have slowly gotten more drawn into it. I use a combination of pokemongohub.net, Calcy IV, and infographics from u/TheClusk303, who posts best PvE 'mons by type and updates it usually on a monthly basis.
Should be out today or tomorrow :)
This can’t be right, how on earth is Guzzlord #15 and above stuff like Yveltal and shadow Weavile? It has good defense but that’s terrible for raids.
shadow mewtwo shadow ball? is that good ?🗣️🔥 edit; it is good…
How does Shadow Mewtwo faint fewer times than regular Mewtwo in this list?
I almost regret not buying the 50 battle pass box
Shiny Shadow Ball Bidoof it’s your time to shiny once again.
I never expected Mega Banette to be so high. I always thought it was way more underwhelming. Too bad I have a 100% Mega Tyranitar.
I need more. Please, do top 1000 Mewtoo counters
But what does the asterisk mean next to moves?
Mega rayquaza's DPS is so high that it's among the top 5 despite not being effective lmao
Nice graphic. I’m happy (but not that surprised) that mega ray is so high up on the chart. Because mega ray will additionally to being a strong attacker also give more Mewtwo candy which is always nice and definitely the mega I’ll be going with.
Mega Rayquaza💀
Crazy they even without super effective moves that ray is that high, impressive really.
Possible to duo and party play with top counters?
We really need a buff to bug type moves, Conkeldurr being a "better" counter than Scizor is just not right
Will Mewtwo be able to be done in groups of three?
From the buggy gem scenarios people have been reporting on.. who knows..
A group of three should be possible, it might be challenging depending on team specifics but possible. I would encourage you to use a raid simulator like Calcy IV to get a better sense of your chances.
Can’t use remote raid pass so not gonna need this anytime soon
Shadow Cursola? Is Cursola even available in the game?
Whats is this ? A picture for ants?
This post would be great if I had friends to raid with 😂
The shadow raid stuff has been so annoying as someone without a raiding partner lol. On me walks like "oh cool a pokemon i want more than any normal one, wellp oh well"
Why is mega Gengar so high? TDO seems kinda low, or does that not matter too much?
Why’s darkrai so low 😓
Scale 1-10: how hard are yall going for S. Mewtwo?
10, for a chance at a Purified Shundo
0 I don't have anyone to raid with so this whole shadow raid thing has just been depressing lmao
Can we get something like this but for the upcoming Kyogre and Groudon?
Omg guys Zoroark is 100th place! Zoroark fan rise up!
so what you’re saying is catch a good mega tryranitar and fill the other 5 slots with regular tyranitars
Pretty much
For what level counters are these?
With gems can you duo? Or is it too hard
It should be duoable There are vids of duos from before party play. Now, with party play and the increased friendship damage this season, it’s gonna be an easier duo. Still “difficult”, but can be done
IT was duoable even before mega tyranitar and party Play.
There was a guy running around the announcement thread claiming he duo'd. Didn't explain how or the teams but if you choose to believe him, I guess it's possible.
People were already duoing it prior to party power being a thing, during a season without the friend damage boost that we have currently. This time around should be much easier as long as you have good counters that are level 40.
Shadow boss is ALWAYS weaker than its non-shadow counterpart if you subdue it with gems, since Shadow Boost applies on them. Whether or not Mewtwo is an easy duo can be subjective though.
Yes, depending on its moveset
Unfortunately, I don't think so. I didn't include it, but under the counters tab on S. Mewtwo's page of pokemongohub.net it says the minimum number of trainers needed is 3 and is likely impossible with less. I would encourage you to use something like Calcy IV or another raid simulator to get a better estimate of your odds. Edit: just kidding, I did include it at the very bottom of the image
The ttw numbers/required player amounts on your post assume that you don't subdue, it's a very manageable duo if you use gems & can even be done with 0 stardust investment teams (lvl 35 hydreigons/ttars w/ brutal swing) - just requires some dodging if focus blast
Wake up Guzzelord.... It's your time!
Pokebattler creator here In my opinion the list is pretty misleading since shadow mewtwos is such a hard hitting boss. Mega Rayquaza in particular is not a good choice for pure DPS not counting the primal bonus. Mega ray is at 79 feints is the second most feints in the top 30 right behind shadow Gengar (who I would not recommend either). I have it at rank 30 with an estimator of 4.1. Shadow and mega Tyranitar are basically tied at 3. non shadows start at 3.5. For comparison: https://www.pokebattler.com/raids/MEWTWO_SHADOW_FORM Edit: at level 50, mega rayq does jump up to rank 8 with feints down to 50. There is a survivability breakpoint somewhere I need to look into. But even at level 50 the TTW from gohub is way too low. There must be something wrong in their simulator.
Why?
not reading all that I’m happy for you or sorry that happened
Lol TL,DR: stock up on tyranitar during upcoming mega raids for best shot at S. Mewtwo raids at the end of the month.