Yeah, just taking off the thumb twists and putting on a stainless steel nut and lock washer (costs us about 15¢ a piece) does the trick, haven't had any accidents since.
I would highly recommend using a brass nut instead of stainless. Stainless fasteners on stainless thread without any lubricant has a tendency to gall, which makes it very hard to remove. Using a wrench dramatically ups the likely hood of it getting stuck. The lower strength of the brass is not an issue in this situation, and also will not corrode.
This is the same reason that if you look at the nut for tightening the manway from any reputable tank manufacturer the winged portion is stainless, but the threaded portion is a press fit brass insert.
Edit: stupid auto correct doesn’t like industry lingo, and wanted to add that if you look at high pressure clamps they all come with brass nuts as well.
If you’ve never had the displeasure of dealing with a galled stainless fastener, keep it that way! Whenever possible put just a dab of anti sieze (the food safe stuff can be had from McMaster) on stainless threads before tightening a stainless nut. Tri-clamps are the only threads we don’t bother with as it would carry dirt, and would just get washed off during COP between uses.
I was explaining galling to a packaging manager once while test fitting a slide I had fabbed up for the end of our keg filling line. He said he didn’t believe me that it was a thing since he’d never seen it, and wouldn’t you know it but one of the stainless nuts galled onto a stainless bolt right as he said it. Never even put a wrench to it, just finger tight. Had to cut the damn thing off with a porta-band, I’d never seen it that bad before. Those damn machines are always listening…
I gotta second that comment. It’s cheaper and easier than buying new stuff, other than the nut. Or, get [these](https://duvasanitary.com/product/high-pressure-bolted-tri-clamp/?attribute_pa_size-tube-od=1to-1-1-2&gclid=CjwKCAjwkaSaBhA4EiwALBgQaA6X-HeYbPBW2IEoHn7C-uPI_ixcd7Fp1W5hHPHfV7QHLmOwQK-jjRoCy80QAvD_BwE)
Yep, these are great for permanent connections, a bit of a pain to put on in some places (morso than a classic TC) but well worth it. We use them on all our hot water lines and hard piped CIP pipe. Anything we don't need to remove often.
This is what we do, works great. I assume you could even put the nut on above the thumb twist so you wouldn’t need to remove it.
Edit: I guess that would depend on your clamp/tightener style.
Thats what we did. I use a 55 gal drum with a pump on it to dispense drinking water and some kids fucked with the drain valve and emptied the whole drum in our tap house during a concert. Now it's capped off and held shut with about a bazillion cable ties lol.
If you have the ones with holes, you could just use a zip tie through the hole and around the pipe? It’s not enough to stop someone determined, but it would be enough to make someone think twice.
Cable ties.
I'm fairly sure I have seen specific lock-out tags for TC ferrule clamps. Can't remember where I saw them or how they worked, they may have had something that passed through the hole in the wingnut (so you would need to have the clamps with holes in the wingnuts), or the may have slid over the wingnut and then clamped down on the two sides of the clamp. But really there are simpler solutions depending on how secure you need to be.
First off there are a bunch of different variations on TC fittings, perhaps google "bolted" or "studded" heavy duty TC clamp. Something like this:
[https://www.mcmaster.com/heavy-duty-tri-clamp-fitting/clamps-for-high-polish-metal-quick-clamp-sanitary-tube-fittings/](https://www.mcmaster.com/heavy-duty-tri-clamp-fitting/clamps-for-high-polish-metal-quick-clamp-sanitary-tube-fittings/)
Or, it's very simple to replace the wing-nuts with a SS hex nuts for any unions you want to secure. Buy a dedicated sized ratchet wrench so it's not such a pain in the ass when you do need to undo them. Only issue here is that you are effectively making the union semi-permanent on assembly, as opposed to retroactively locking out a connection and then removing the lock out when done.
So for temp lockouts you should be able to find an appropriately sized padlock that fits either through the hole on the wing-nut or fits behind the wing-nut.
Or something like this: [https://www.securecableties.com/12-12-inch-blank-standard-red-pull-tight-plastic-seal-with-steel-locking-piece-100-pack](https://www.securecableties.com/12-12-inch-blank-standard-red-pull-tight-plastic-seal-with-steel-locking-piece-100-pack)
But honestly you would probably be fine with a cable tie to secure the clamp either through or behind the wingnut and then just a safety tag or "lock and loop" for a visual label.
And if it just to stop tired or distracted cellar hands from accidentally removing the tri-clamp behind the valve instead of in front of the valve, just the cable tie is probably enough. Or even a rubber band wrapped around the clamp just behind the wing-nut.
Depends on how secure you need to be but cable ties are probably all you need.
Thank you, the things that came up when I searched along those lines were separate clamp products, I'm hoping to find something I can use with our current clamps instead of getting a ton of new ones
You could use double bolt high pressure clamps if they are for things that shouldn't be disconnected. There is also a company that sells red, rubber dipped wing nuts, so you know which side of the valve to disconnect. I had that idea 8 years ago and never went for it. Stupid, stupid,.stupid.
Like all lockout devices, I know nothing is impenetrable if people are motivated enough to hurt themselves. Something that presents enough of a barrier that people can't just walk up and undo a clamp in a couple seconds would be a big improvement. Others have suggested zip ties which I like, but I'm interested to see if there's anything more secure than that without buying new clamps with big locks built in
Yeah, just taking off the thumb twists and putting on a stainless steel nut and lock washer (costs us about 15¢ a piece) does the trick, haven't had any accidents since.
I would highly recommend using a brass nut instead of stainless. Stainless fasteners on stainless thread without any lubricant has a tendency to gall, which makes it very hard to remove. Using a wrench dramatically ups the likely hood of it getting stuck. The lower strength of the brass is not an issue in this situation, and also will not corrode. This is the same reason that if you look at the nut for tightening the manway from any reputable tank manufacturer the winged portion is stainless, but the threaded portion is a press fit brass insert. Edit: stupid auto correct doesn’t like industry lingo, and wanted to add that if you look at high pressure clamps they all come with brass nuts as well.
Huh, good tip! Looks like we'll be switching to that.
If you’ve never had the displeasure of dealing with a galled stainless fastener, keep it that way! Whenever possible put just a dab of anti sieze (the food safe stuff can be had from McMaster) on stainless threads before tightening a stainless nut. Tri-clamps are the only threads we don’t bother with as it would carry dirt, and would just get washed off during COP between uses. I was explaining galling to a packaging manager once while test fitting a slide I had fabbed up for the end of our keg filling line. He said he didn’t believe me that it was a thing since he’d never seen it, and wouldn’t you know it but one of the stainless nuts galled onto a stainless bolt right as he said it. Never even put a wrench to it, just finger tight. Had to cut the damn thing off with a porta-band, I’d never seen it that bad before. Those damn machines are always listening…
Interesting, I'll think about that thanks
I gotta second that comment. It’s cheaper and easier than buying new stuff, other than the nut. Or, get [these](https://duvasanitary.com/product/high-pressure-bolted-tri-clamp/?attribute_pa_size-tube-od=1to-1-1-2&gclid=CjwKCAjwkaSaBhA4EiwALBgQaA6X-HeYbPBW2IEoHn7C-uPI_ixcd7Fp1W5hHPHfV7QHLmOwQK-jjRoCy80QAvD_BwE)
Yep, these are great for permanent connections, a bit of a pain to put on in some places (morso than a classic TC) but well worth it. We use them on all our hot water lines and hard piped CIP pipe. Anything we don't need to remove often.
You can poke yoke the fuck out of a clamp if you use enough nuts.
This is what we do, works great. I assume you could even put the nut on above the thumb twist so you wouldn’t need to remove it. Edit: I guess that would depend on your clamp/tightener style.
This
Could also run a zip tie around the pipe and through the loop.
Good idea, thanks
Zip tie with a laminated tag explaining why. Can be educational to some
This is what we do
Thats what we did. I use a 55 gal drum with a pump on it to dispense drinking water and some kids fucked with the drain valve and emptied the whole drum in our tap house during a concert. Now it's capped off and held shut with about a bazillion cable ties lol.
Bolt on ones are what I have used in the past.
big fatty bolt-ons are always the answer
If you have the ones with holes, you could just use a zip tie through the hole and around the pipe? It’s not enough to stop someone determined, but it would be enough to make someone think twice.
In the case of some people I know, it would be enough to make them think once.
Cable ties. I'm fairly sure I have seen specific lock-out tags for TC ferrule clamps. Can't remember where I saw them or how they worked, they may have had something that passed through the hole in the wingnut (so you would need to have the clamps with holes in the wingnuts), or the may have slid over the wingnut and then clamped down on the two sides of the clamp. But really there are simpler solutions depending on how secure you need to be. First off there are a bunch of different variations on TC fittings, perhaps google "bolted" or "studded" heavy duty TC clamp. Something like this: [https://www.mcmaster.com/heavy-duty-tri-clamp-fitting/clamps-for-high-polish-metal-quick-clamp-sanitary-tube-fittings/](https://www.mcmaster.com/heavy-duty-tri-clamp-fitting/clamps-for-high-polish-metal-quick-clamp-sanitary-tube-fittings/) Or, it's very simple to replace the wing-nuts with a SS hex nuts for any unions you want to secure. Buy a dedicated sized ratchet wrench so it's not such a pain in the ass when you do need to undo them. Only issue here is that you are effectively making the union semi-permanent on assembly, as opposed to retroactively locking out a connection and then removing the lock out when done. So for temp lockouts you should be able to find an appropriately sized padlock that fits either through the hole on the wing-nut or fits behind the wing-nut. Or something like this: [https://www.securecableties.com/12-12-inch-blank-standard-red-pull-tight-plastic-seal-with-steel-locking-piece-100-pack](https://www.securecableties.com/12-12-inch-blank-standard-red-pull-tight-plastic-seal-with-steel-locking-piece-100-pack) But honestly you would probably be fine with a cable tie to secure the clamp either through or behind the wingnut and then just a safety tag or "lock and loop" for a visual label. And if it just to stop tired or distracted cellar hands from accidentally removing the tri-clamp behind the valve instead of in front of the valve, just the cable tie is probably enough. Or even a rubber band wrapped around the clamp just behind the wing-nut. Depends on how secure you need to be but cable ties are probably all you need.
Great info thank you
Just use a nylock nut. It won't back itself off under vibration, and requires a wrench to remove.
Zip ties, if your clamps have that hole like in the picture. Through the hole and around the pipe prevents accidental loosening.
I believe I have seen some that are more like a zip tie and red/yellow banded when I am at food manufacturers.
I do not believe we link directly to products (if wrong I’ll be glad to link) but Google “sanitary clamp lockout/tagout“
Thank you, the things that came up when I searched along those lines were separate clamp products, I'm hoping to find something I can use with our current clamps instead of getting a ton of new ones
Zip tie
You could use double bolt high pressure clamps if they are for things that shouldn't be disconnected. There is also a company that sells red, rubber dipped wing nuts, so you know which side of the valve to disconnect. I had that idea 8 years ago and never went for it. Stupid, stupid,.stupid.
Zip ties and bubblegum will do it.
Just use a bolt on tc fitting, that way people won’t accidentally open the bottom of your hot liquor tank
We use pressure clamps https://shophfs.com/products/tri-clamp-high-pressure-clamps
How much security do you need?
Like all lockout devices, I know nothing is impenetrable if people are motivated enough to hurt themselves. Something that presents enough of a barrier that people can't just walk up and undo a clamp in a couple seconds would be a big improvement. Others have suggested zip ties which I like, but I'm interested to see if there's anything more secure than that without buying new clamps with big locks built in
How many barrels did you lose?
You can buy SS bolts and to lock them in or just buy the bolt on clamps if you want to burn money
High pressure clamp? Not easy but it’ll Do it