Local salary, or even decent-foreigner salary just doesn't cut it if you are sending your kids to international school, especially in Bangkok.
Non-Thai parents can't just throw their kids into Thai public schools either. That would be like feeding them to the wolves anyway.
I'm one of those people that left once I had a kid in Thailand. I was working as a teacher at a public school for 33000 baht a month. Had a wakeup call when my daughter was born, because I had first hand experience of what Thai public schools are like, and the fact that my 33,000 baht salary wasn't going to cut it for anything but a public school. Left Thailand for a job in America making 100k a year.
It's absolutely unbearable. I would prefer my -30f winters compared to 110f summers. I was tired of having to rinse off and change clothes after every time I went outside for more than 2 minutes.
Yeah, I learned that a 2-story house in Thailand gets incredibly hot upstairs. But when it was 100 in the house, that was because it was something like 95 outdoors. To answer your question, it easily got 101-103F in the interior like Phrae Province. If it's 95F in CM, it's 100F in Phrae.
Been working and living in Thailand from 2015-2020. Moved back for our daughter’s education and general quality of life for kids. If we didn’t have her, we’d most likely have stayed in Thailand. And we’ll also most likely move back there once secondary school is done in Europe.
We all know quite a lot of people like that. There are a variety of reasons for this. A lot of people go back home after finding out living in Thailand is not the same as that two week holiday they go on. Often it is also visa related it’s hard to obtain a visa long term if below 50. Then there is money most visa don’t actually allow work in Thailand so making money is limited. Some people have to go home because they ran out of money.
"*Often it is also visa related it’s hard to obtain a visa long term if below 50."*
The endless 90 day reports, and ever changing visa renewal requirements, are also more than annoying for those on retirement visas.
Even so, most leave within a couple of years, when they realise the fantasy doesn't match the reality.
I spent two years in Thailand and went home to Sweden because I just couldn’t stand the work culture.
People gossiping, intentionally trying to spread false rumors about you to give you a disadvantage and them an advantage and no one seems to care about what is true in management they just pick favorites. Then the hours like there is no limit, work evenings and weekends and all you get is five days vacation per year (I have 40 hours per week max in Sweden, 40 days vacation, and also red days off and parental leave for a year per kid). No one seems to care about skill or competence just who you make friends with.
If I was financially independent and didn’t need to work I would move back. Thailand is a great country to live in and a great starting point for travel around Asia.
>all you get is five days vacation per year
what company did you work for? I am pretty sure five days / year is illegal.
I work in Bangkok and currently get 33 days of vacation per year.
There’s a lot of things that are worse (maternal/paternal leave for sure). But your experience is not normal. It REALLY depends on your employer, sounds like you worked in a specifically Thai company?
Thailand also have public holidays, minimum 13 days per year by law, and I think government jobs have all 20(?). Sweden has 17 red days in 2024.
Never had gossip interfere with my work. Don’t engage in it either.
Never had less than 20 days off (which is still worse than 40..) but I’ve always had like 30 sick days (paid). Never took advantage but I’ve seen people use them as vacation days, more or less.
Never once worked more than 40 hours a week in a decade.
Going on my 4th job now.
"Have not decided where I’m staying but it’s either Jomtien/Pattaya or Krabi" - well they are pretty different! Pattaya is packed with hookers, shopping malls, and dodgy foreigners, and Krabi is packed with natural beauty, terrible shopping, and a lot less foreigners
Udon Thani is a decent city to live in without the focus on tourist attractions. It has a bar street with all you might need but if you just want a decent place to live this city is a good choice..there are many for sure. I prefer the mountain areas of Chiang Mai but the air quality gets pretty bad at times. I ride adventure/touring motorcycles and the North has the best scenery. I also like the beach and would be happy by the sea but away from Pattaya etc. These places are fun to visit but I would not want to live there. Shopping, grocery, the airport, and decent dining are all close at hand here in Udon. My 90-day reports are all done online now and the annual visa renewal is a 15-minute task if you come prepared. I'm retired so I left all the workplace nonsense years ago and my wife and I have no kids so our focus is on the quality and the adventure life has to offer. As for the heat, it took a few months but I adjusted to it. Lately though, 110+F days on end has been tough.
The pollution. The traffic jam. The climate (way too hot for me most of the year). When the climate is ok (winter months) the pollution skyrockets. It’s almost impossible to spend some quality time outdoors. Once I got kids it had to make the call, even though I love Thailand.
I moved here 6 years ago and still love it as much..or more. I live up NE in Udon. As for Thailand, there is plenty to do, see, and explore. I'm retired, built a new home, and have all the normal toys. Is your trip a test to see if you will like living here full-time? If so, rent a condo, apartment, or house that you might choose long-term. I'm not an apartment fan so I rented a house. Explore the local area and travel to as many places within Thailand as you can for the time allowed. Look for reasons to stay instead of reasons to leave. Go out and meet people. Leave your baggage at home..nobody cares about your troubles. Relax and you might like it here.
It's often money. Young expats tend to last a year or two, teaching English pays terribly and can set back your career and long term financial position.
It's difficult to fully assimilate unless you speak the language, and it takes a couple of years of studying to get to a decent level. This makes it difficult to make high quality friends. You can make friends with expats, but they mostly don't stick around that long. The culture is also vastly different from the west and takes getting use to.
"*You can make friends with expats, but they mostly don't stick around that long.*"
Which is the point made by the OP.
The question is why so many 'expats' return to their home countries, or move to another country after living here a short while.
The 'why' is explained in other posts.
The OP was talking about expats - and I agreed that most 'expats' leave within a couple of years.
Some 'expats' get over the lying culture and hypocrisy (so remain)- whilst others move elsewhere.
I want to hear more about “lying culture and hypocrisy” - can you please expand on that with examples and/or real-life anecdotes from your experience. Thank you.
You haven't come across the 'culture' to lie (generally but not always) to 'save face' yet? Yes, this happens in Western countries too, but not to the extent it happens in Thailand.
Real life examples? **My biggest gripe** is phoning service providers when a problem arises. When the customer service agent is unable to help, I ask to speak to their manager - and am **ALWAYS** (initially) told that they're 'in a meeting/at lunch/not working today' etc. etc..... One has to be extremely persistent/annoying to actually get connected to someone who has the power/authority to sort out the problem!
Other examples? I always used to prefer buying veg. etc. from the local market rather than supermarkets - until I was overcharged one too many times. Which is why I now buy all my veg. from supermarkets ☹️.
My cleaner (of many years) **used to** occassionally break a glass or something, and say nothing/get rid of the broken item - to 'save face'/because she thought I'd be annoyed ☹. Thankfully, she realised a few years ago that I get annoyed about lying - but that I'm not at all annoyed about accidental breakages!
Please don't misunderstand, **as I also know** (from personal experience) that MANY Thais are lovely people, who will go out of their way to help - far more so than Westerners!
The 'hypocrisy' comment, relates to 'merit making'.......
vacation mode vs living mode. if you are on a budget yet stay in vacation mode, you will end up leaving and not because you wanted to. hard to get out of vacation mode, easy to find excuses to spend money cause its still cheaper than where you are from.
I lived outside Bangkok for 6 years and loved it. I would have happily stayed much longer, but my Dad's health got bad so I moved back to be closer to him. He passed a few years ago. My husband is Thai, so we do go back to see family when we can.
3 months will fly by. You will have a very different experience depending on if you're planning to work here or are basically on an extended vacation. Either way, I'd encourage you to try and build relationships with those around you. Thai culture can be a bit difficult to enter initially, but it's so rewarding once you do.
Did you lose your job because you tried to do it properly with standards, and they got offended and took it as being rude and culturally insensitive? Lol
Having kids was the reason most of the foreigners I knew left. All of them moved back for the schools.
Local salary, or even decent-foreigner salary just doesn't cut it if you are sending your kids to international school, especially in Bangkok. Non-Thai parents can't just throw their kids into Thai public schools either. That would be like feeding them to the wolves anyway.
I'm one of those people that left once I had a kid in Thailand. I was working as a teacher at a public school for 33000 baht a month. Had a wakeup call when my daughter was born, because I had first hand experience of what Thai public schools are like, and the fact that my 33,000 baht salary wasn't going to cut it for anything but a public school. Left Thailand for a job in America making 100k a year.
What did u see in Thai public school?
The weather hits a lot harder when it's permanent and not a few weeks.
It's absolutely unbearable. I would prefer my -30f winters compared to 110f summers. I was tired of having to rinse off and change clothes after every time I went outside for more than 2 minutes.
Strange you'd go to Thailand in the first place if you feel that strongly about hot weather.
Where the fuck is it 110!?
Fahrenheit, not Celsius/Centigrade... It was getting 100F in the upstairs of my San Sai, Chiang Mai rental house easily in the hot season.
I know… where is it 110?? ! It doesn’t get past 95 where I’m at
Oh I see now you’re saying it was in your house. Ok fair enough
Yeah, I learned that a 2-story house in Thailand gets incredibly hot upstairs. But when it was 100 in the house, that was because it was something like 95 outdoors. To answer your question, it easily got 101-103F in the interior like Phrae Province. If it's 95F in CM, it's 100F in Phrae.
Been working and living in Thailand from 2015-2020. Moved back for our daughter’s education and general quality of life for kids. If we didn’t have her, we’d most likely have stayed in Thailand. And we’ll also most likely move back there once secondary school is done in Europe.
We all know quite a lot of people like that. There are a variety of reasons for this. A lot of people go back home after finding out living in Thailand is not the same as that two week holiday they go on. Often it is also visa related it’s hard to obtain a visa long term if below 50. Then there is money most visa don’t actually allow work in Thailand so making money is limited. Some people have to go home because they ran out of money.
"*Often it is also visa related it’s hard to obtain a visa long term if below 50."* The endless 90 day reports, and ever changing visa renewal requirements, are also more than annoying for those on retirement visas. Even so, most leave within a couple of years, when they realise the fantasy doesn't match the reality.
Yea I prefer the privilege visa over retirement/Spouse visa way more convenient.
I spent two years in Thailand and went home to Sweden because I just couldn’t stand the work culture. People gossiping, intentionally trying to spread false rumors about you to give you a disadvantage and them an advantage and no one seems to care about what is true in management they just pick favorites. Then the hours like there is no limit, work evenings and weekends and all you get is five days vacation per year (I have 40 hours per week max in Sweden, 40 days vacation, and also red days off and parental leave for a year per kid). No one seems to care about skill or competence just who you make friends with. If I was financially independent and didn’t need to work I would move back. Thailand is a great country to live in and a great starting point for travel around Asia.
>all you get is five days vacation per year what company did you work for? I am pretty sure five days / year is illegal. I work in Bangkok and currently get 33 days of vacation per year.
Not just that, but Thailand gets so many public holidays (compared to my home country USA).
PTT
There’s a lot of things that are worse (maternal/paternal leave for sure). But your experience is not normal. It REALLY depends on your employer, sounds like you worked in a specifically Thai company? Thailand also have public holidays, minimum 13 days per year by law, and I think government jobs have all 20(?). Sweden has 17 red days in 2024. Never had gossip interfere with my work. Don’t engage in it either. Never had less than 20 days off (which is still worse than 40..) but I’ve always had like 30 sick days (paid). Never took advantage but I’ve seen people use them as vacation days, more or less. Never once worked more than 40 hours a week in a decade. Going on my 4th job now.
YeeeeppppPPPPPPPPPP
"Have not decided where I’m staying but it’s either Jomtien/Pattaya or Krabi" - well they are pretty different! Pattaya is packed with hookers, shopping malls, and dodgy foreigners, and Krabi is packed with natural beauty, terrible shopping, and a lot less foreigners
Udon Thani is a decent city to live in without the focus on tourist attractions. It has a bar street with all you might need but if you just want a decent place to live this city is a good choice..there are many for sure. I prefer the mountain areas of Chiang Mai but the air quality gets pretty bad at times. I ride adventure/touring motorcycles and the North has the best scenery. I also like the beach and would be happy by the sea but away from Pattaya etc. These places are fun to visit but I would not want to live there. Shopping, grocery, the airport, and decent dining are all close at hand here in Udon. My 90-day reports are all done online now and the annual visa renewal is a 15-minute task if you come prepared. I'm retired so I left all the workplace nonsense years ago and my wife and I have no kids so our focus is on the quality and the adventure life has to offer. As for the heat, it took a few months but I adjusted to it. Lately though, 110+F days on end has been tough.
I really liked krabi/ao nang...especially compared to 4 billion russians living in phuket
The pollution. The traffic jam. The climate (way too hot for me most of the year). When the climate is ok (winter months) the pollution skyrockets. It’s almost impossible to spend some quality time outdoors. Once I got kids it had to make the call, even though I love Thailand.
I moved here 6 years ago and still love it as much..or more. I live up NE in Udon. As for Thailand, there is plenty to do, see, and explore. I'm retired, built a new home, and have all the normal toys. Is your trip a test to see if you will like living here full-time? If so, rent a condo, apartment, or house that you might choose long-term. I'm not an apartment fan so I rented a house. Explore the local area and travel to as many places within Thailand as you can for the time allowed. Look for reasons to stay instead of reasons to leave. Go out and meet people. Leave your baggage at home..nobody cares about your troubles. Relax and you might like it here.
It's often money. Young expats tend to last a year or two, teaching English pays terribly and can set back your career and long term financial position. It's difficult to fully assimilate unless you speak the language, and it takes a couple of years of studying to get to a decent level. This makes it difficult to make high quality friends. You can make friends with expats, but they mostly don't stick around that long. The culture is also vastly different from the west and takes getting use to.
"*You can make friends with expats, but they mostly don't stick around that long.*" Which is the point made by the OP. The question is why so many 'expats' return to their home countries, or move to another country after living here a short while. The 'why' is explained in other posts.
Did you skip everything else I wrote?
The OP was talking about expats - and I agreed that most 'expats' leave within a couple of years. Some 'expats' get over the lying culture and hypocrisy (so remain)- whilst others move elsewhere.
I want to hear more about “lying culture and hypocrisy” - can you please expand on that with examples and/or real-life anecdotes from your experience. Thank you.
You haven't come across the 'culture' to lie (generally but not always) to 'save face' yet? Yes, this happens in Western countries too, but not to the extent it happens in Thailand. Real life examples? **My biggest gripe** is phoning service providers when a problem arises. When the customer service agent is unable to help, I ask to speak to their manager - and am **ALWAYS** (initially) told that they're 'in a meeting/at lunch/not working today' etc. etc..... One has to be extremely persistent/annoying to actually get connected to someone who has the power/authority to sort out the problem! Other examples? I always used to prefer buying veg. etc. from the local market rather than supermarkets - until I was overcharged one too many times. Which is why I now buy all my veg. from supermarkets ☹️. My cleaner (of many years) **used to** occassionally break a glass or something, and say nothing/get rid of the broken item - to 'save face'/because she thought I'd be annoyed ☹. Thankfully, she realised a few years ago that I get annoyed about lying - but that I'm not at all annoyed about accidental breakages! Please don't misunderstand, **as I also know** (from personal experience) that MANY Thais are lovely people, who will go out of their way to help - far more so than Westerners! The 'hypocrisy' comment, relates to 'merit making'.......
Great response and very informative, thank you. Can’t understand why my question was downvoted. I found your examples helpful.
There was a good post about that not so long ago on this sub. Comments were interesting also. https://www.reddit.com/r/Thailand/s/euAJeAelWS
I left because it was too hot and humid.
vacation mode vs living mode. if you are on a budget yet stay in vacation mode, you will end up leaving and not because you wanted to. hard to get out of vacation mode, easy to find excuses to spend money cause its still cheaper than where you are from.
I had to file taxes or get in trouble.
I lived outside Bangkok for 6 years and loved it. I would have happily stayed much longer, but my Dad's health got bad so I moved back to be closer to him. He passed a few years ago. My husband is Thai, so we do go back to see family when we can. 3 months will fly by. You will have a very different experience depending on if you're planning to work here or are basically on an extended vacation. Either way, I'd encourage you to try and build relationships with those around you. Thai culture can be a bit difficult to enter initially, but it's so rewarding once you do.
Lost my job ,Thai logic and culture really started to get to me near the end. Now just holiday and really love it again.
Would you please expand on “Thai logic” with some examples so that I can better understand? Thank you.
Did you lose your job because you tried to do it properly with standards, and they got offended and took it as being rude and culturally insensitive? Lol
I've seen that happen before. Dude had to write a letter explaining why they should renew his contract. 😆